I’m not going to lie to you, I would have been perfectly happy continuing on with this lazy long weekend and completely mailing in another Game Threat for tonight’s game between the Jays and Yankees in the Bronx, but John Farrell has kinda forced my hand here with the lineup that you see below.

And… now… for the umpteenth time this year, I do understand that he really has shit all to work with. That’s why I, probably unlike a lot of Jays fans, can actually stomach the return of Edwin Encarnacion to third base, despite the potential for disaster that move holds. In fact, I welcome E5′s bat– cold as it is– being in this lineup, as opposed to Jayson Nix’s.

What I can’t possibly fathom here, though, is the decision to hit Yunel Escobar in the cleanup spot. And why that’s a bigger deal to me than the Encarnacion thing is that it reveals to us more about how John Farrell thinks than his having to make the no-win call of Nix’s or McDonald’s glove or Edwin’s bat.

What it probably means is that he thinks having Escobar– admittedly the team’s next-best hitter– behind Jose Bautista is going to change how pitchers approach the best hitter in baseball. And while I suppose that opposing managers might be dumb enough to think there’s something wildly different between the calculation of whether to pitch to Bautista or Escobar than Bautista or anybody else, but banking on their stupidity is no way to run a lineup.

No, Bautista isn’t going to see more pitches to hit in this configuration, unless it’s simply because he has fewer baserunners ahead of him– though, with four walks in his last seven games/31 plate appearances, I don’t think he’s quite being avoided the way that a lot of folks, John Farrell apparently included, seem to think. Escobar may be less appealing to pitch to than the likes of Hill or Rivera, but not possibly enough to change the way Bautista is pitched to.

So, is he there to try and cash in the occasional Bautista walk or the less-occasional base from Davis and Patterson? Is it because, as John Farrell claimed, he likes how Escobar matches up with Bartolo Colon– you know, insanely based on the two singles he’s had in those three career plate appearances?

Obviously you want to have a good hitter behind your absolute best hitter, and again, I know Farrell doesn’t have a lot to choose from here, but taking away opportunities from Bautista to hit with runners on is not the way to help the team score more runs. Period. Sure, some of those chances will be replaced with opportunities for Escobar with Bautista and another runner on, but– if we’re assuming Bautista is getting pitched around with runners on– you’d get more opportunities for another cleanup hitter with Bautista and Escobar on ahead of him, which over the long run should generate more runs.

Fortunately, at least, we don’t have to worry about the long run here, as John Farrell told reporters that this experiment is only going to be for tonight, and that JP Arencibia will be up higher in the lineup. Which… kinda makes even less sense to me.

But hey, the home run followed by a single thing seems to be working well so far, huh? Not backwards at fucking all. Genius, Farrell! Genius!

TV: Sportsnet One

And now the lineups, by way of theScore.com

Toronto Blue Jays
R. Davis CF
C. Patterson LF
J. Bautista RF
Y. Escobar SS
J. Rivera 1B
A. Hill 2B
E. Thames DH
J. Arencibia C
E. Encarnacion 3B

C. Villanueva RHP

Poo Yuck Skankees of Poo Yuck

D. Jeter SS
C. Granderson CF
M. Teixeira 1B
A. Rodriguez 3B
R. Cano 2B
R. Martin C
J. Posada DH
B. Gardner LF
C. Dickerson RF

B. Colon RHP

Comments (292)

  1. how can that fatass not care at all? when they showed his fat ass smiling to the dugout after that horrendous inning, i swear there was a coach in the dug out just staring at him with a straight face and the fat fuck looked away like a lil fuckin girl. that fat fuck makes me RAGEEEEEEE

  2. Snider removed from the game early, after what was surely another shitty at bat (1-4 tonight, average down, down down.)

    Is he hurt now too, or is this because he was acting like a bitch after another pop out? This guys career is on the edge at best right now. I’d like to see Thames in LF the next few days, because I don’t think Snider has much of a Blue Jays future anymore. Somewhere else he could still flourish, but it ain’t gonna be here . . . anyone else feeling this way right now?

  3. No NL team will take him, so which team has the weakest DH in the AL?. It’s probably the Jays.

  4. next time mccoy is called up from vegas, lawrie is going to hide in the plane’s wheel well and when it’s about to land, he’ll jump out and land in lake ontario.  he’ll then burst his way into alex’s office and hang him upside down from one leg over the 500 level and say “alex, remember when I told you I was going to kill you last? I lied.”

  5. Looks like Snider has basically disappeared.  Zaun and Campbell chewed up E5 pretty good and Zaun wants to give him the rest of the month (which is a week) to see if he can hit as a dh and if not DFA him and bring up Lawrie.  I haven’t heard any sports commentator recently mention Snider at all.  I think he’s about done here.

  6. I would think that E5 has enough money to retire in the dominican republic.

    It’s at the point wher you have to feel sorry for him.

    I wonder what Bautista or escobar are telling him?

  7. he’s 3 years older than thames, old man for sure

  8. “I think he’s about done here.”

    lol. I mean yeah, he’s struggling like a motherfucker now, but let’s not get ridiculous.

  9. Lawrie, lawrie, lawrie, oooooooohh . . . . .  .. . .  . .  ( I jizzed in my pants )


  10. Sounds like somebody gave that Active Green + Ross commercial a valium.

  11. You’re really worried about him, admit it  . . . we all are. He’s playing like crap, no power, errors. removed from a game early for (hopefully) no reason and management is pretending like he doesn’t exist. Should have kept him up both this year and last, because we have absolutely killed his development by dicking him around . . . oh well, Lawrie better not turn out to be as shitty as Snider has.

  12. Why are you idiots ready to give up on Snider? The dude is 23 years old.

  13. Injuries keep him in the lineup.

    lawrie player of the week in the PCL.

  14. cleveland ties boston yeah baby

  15. Indians just tied the Red Sox in the 8th

  16. 3-2 cleveland yeaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

  17. Indians go ahead. Fuck Yeah

  18. Well, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried, but not to the point where I actually think the best of Travis Snider is behind us. The fuck just turned 23 in February. It’s not unprecedented for young, talented players to show some signs of regression before finally figuring it out. And although I was against sending him down in the first place, I don’t see that as something that’s going to hinder his development further. Hopefully, assuming his problem is mechanical, the coaching staff in LV will be able to help him out.   

  19. 50/50 chance snider is a bust, he has a long slow swing.  c0mpare that to thames’ swing.  he still hasn’t played a full season in AAA so let him finish out the season there and see what happens.  if he shortens up his swing he could be alright.

  20. They’re amazing right now . . . when Chisenhall comes up to play 3B they’re going to be even better!

    Snider might be 23, but he’s been a AAAA player for three years now, and now he’s regressing  at the AAA level. Is he hurt, does anyone know? Why else would you put Lane in to replace him at the end of the game??? Crap, now he’s untradeable until 2012. (I hope it’s not the wrist again)

  21. loewn 4/5 with 4 doubles, now at .289

  22. I’ll weigh in on that. NO, no I don’t feel that way.  Travis is 23 years old. I don’t care if it takes him until after next year to get it. 25 years old settling into LF in 2013. Wow, what a fucking disaster. Jayson Werth did not put it together until age 27 with the Phillies, and then they did not really have to pay him anything until his last arb year, last year. So, they got 15.3 WAR over 4 seasons for $12.55 million. Young, controllable, cost-effective talent.

  23. Lemme say Charlie (Villanueva)…WINNING!



  25. Indians win, Bo Sox lose

  26. Gose? He seems to figure pretty big into the organization’s plans.

  27. I get the feeling that Farrell has wanted Lawrie here for a while and that AA is keeping him down for monetary purposes.  Im not buying the explanation that it’s because he needs more experience at third.  He’ll get the experience up here playing third as much as he would down there.  As far as not wanting to live with the growing pains of his potential errors while playing third here….really?  Could it really get any worse?  The offense is so beleagured at the 3b position that they actually play EE there?   I just hope the jays hang in there (3 games back or so) until the cheap fucks bring him up, because I believe a lineup with him and lind in it is a good run per game better than the shit we have right now.  I actually think our pitching will improve.  With the mediocrity of the league this year, we can at least make it close enough such that we have entertainment till september.  Still not expecting a playoff spot..but fuck make it so we can have some meaningful games down the road.

  28. Agreed. It was clear in spring that JF thought Lawrie was ready.

  29. Blue Jays 3B, 0 for 21.  E5 may have been terrible tonight, but at least he saw 17 pitches, made that fat pig Colon work.  Nix was 0 for 3 yesterday, 7 pitches.

  30. Wasn’t there someone bitching about how Arencibia was already a fucking waste because of his terrible defense and lack of stick. Whoever you are, ttop typing shit just to see it on the board, go yell it into a pillow.

  31. gose plays cf so he would replace davis

    you still have lf and dh open for thames and loewen.

  32. By the way, what do you guys think of Girardi’s strategy of IBB Bautista with a man on second and noone out in the 6th?  I though it was kind of nuts because there were zero outs and it was only the top of the 6th.  Basically Corey patterons’ double resulted in the bases loaded and noone out.  I’d trade a bautsta at bat for two free baserunners and one out any day if there is only one out.

    The real genius move was IBB Rivera? Why?  set up a double play?  It was ONLY the sixth…why was he managing as if one run beat him?

  33. My oh my, can you imagine the frustration we all would have watching minor league ball. Lansing won, gave up 7 runs but none of them earned. 5 errors, 3 of them fielding errors by SS Oliver Dominguez, he now has 27 on the year.

  34. You think Snider’s about done here?

    Please, the guys 23.  I’m sure he’ll be back in a month or two.

  35. Right, right. Sorry, I thought he was talking general outfield prospects.

  36. I’d enjoy seeing Lawrie Buster Posey the Jays into October.

  37. Was I alone in catching Tabler quoting “runs created” as a stat?

  38. You mean Gustavo Pierre, he’s the guy with a million errors.

  39. Not that it’s the be all and end all of things, but Thames is a year older than Snider. Just sayin’.

  40. You probably don’t want to hear this, but Sportsnet 1 is like $2.50/month and you don’t need rogers VIP to order it. I gave in and ordered it today. You win, Rogers. 

  41. I hope not. It is way to early to give up on a 23 year old. I hope he makes it back to the jays before july

  42. That pretty much sums up my position. I dont expect the jays to make the playoffs. I fully appreciate the fact that the Bos and NYY of the world will win 16 of 20 games after the trade deadline to seal the deal. But I would like to watch meaningful games past May for once in my life. That is all.

  43. I hope they move Arencibia into the clean up spot (then drop him to fifth once Lind comes back.) He’s second in slugging percentage and 4th in OPS. (Third among regulars.) He looks ready to me.

  44. I think i’ve figured out why Farrell put Escobar behind Bautista, and its not as crazy as I first thought if you look at it this way.  He sees Escobar as flat out his second best hitter right now.  He’s not really putting Junel fourth to protect Bautista, he’s putting him 4th to give him a chance to drive Jose in AFTER Girardi walks him.  It actually worked in a fuck up way today.  I dont think its a good strategy, but I can at least see where he’s coming from when you look at it that way.

  45. This is the lineup i would use against righties until lind comes back

    1. Davis
    2. Escobar
    3. Bautista.
    4. JPA.
    5. Thames. LF
    6. Hill.
    7. Rivera 1b
    8. Patterson dh
    9 . Mac (3b)

  46. Andrew Bynum at Jays game last night. Fucktard is a Yankees’ fan.

  47.  I agree with your lineup, but I would move Hill down to the 8th spot… I see no reason to bat him any higher..

  48. It’s not an unrealistic assertion James. Two years ago when he struggled people said “he’s only 21″, last year when he struggled people said “he’s only 22″, now we’re saying “he’s only 23″. I completely agree, he is still young but at the same time he has had a lot of AB’s at the Major League level and has yet to show very little in the way of consistent power and production. In fact, at times, he looks completely overmatched.

    I’m not ready to give up on him either, but given his present struggles in the PCL (hopefully the result of altering his swing), its not unrealistic to assume there may be some serious issues with him. More importantly, I’m not sure Farrel and Anthopoulus are completely sold on him and that’s even more disturbing.

  49.  Arencibia has been great thus far, he could end up being the best catcher in the AL as early as this year..

  50. i seriously wonder if some of you clods actually watch baseball

    travis snider isn’t going anywhere, and nobody is giving up on him

  51. Has E5 had an error as the DH yet?

  52. it’s a fucked up lineup.  the reason jose gets walked is because 1st is always open. you want the guy ahead of jose to walk so they’ll pitch to jose.  the last thing you want is jose walking.  ideally escobar should bat third with jose fourth since escobar has the second highest obp. asking escobar to drive in jose is just perverted logic.  I honestly cant believe farrell is this boneheaded.  he moves everyone else in the lineup except for jose. and then he has davis stealing and gets thrown out.  even the yankee announcers called that dumb. he’s making cito look like a genius.

  53. jose has only walked 3 times with a runner on 1st and has a 1500 ops.  farrell should be doing everything to make sure that 1st is occupied when jbau comes up.  with runner on 2nd his ops is only .500. does farrell even look at splits? for fucks sakes

  54. So Loewen goes 4/5 with four fucking doubles.
    Lawrie goes 2/4 with a dinger, double and a walk.
    fat boy goes 1/4 and commits an error.

    Cecil gives up THREE more homers.  this is now 11 homers in 37 ip in the minors….and I dont want to hear about what a lauching pad parks in IOWA are.

  55. Cecil’s velocity was down as early as last August.

    Dude was drafted as a closer, so I don’t know why people are surprised by what we’re seeing.

    He is a future loogy. Nothing more.

  56. Yeah, but that’s because it’s extremely young to be playing major league baseball at ages 21, 22 and 23.  Carlos Delgado had a pretty similar start to his career.

    I mean – he may not end up as a great hitter, or even a good hitter.  But I think it’s WAY, way to early to write him off and expect to never see him again.  It could happen, but there isn’t a really to jump to that unless you’re being really pessimistic.

  57. I don’t hate Edwin, don’t dislike him and don’t feel sorry for him (the guy is rich and will die rich). But we do have to get him off this team somehow.

  58. I love the idea of this lineup that Zaun tweeted earlier (ideally with an improved Snider in there instead of Patterson):

    Zaun’s lineup June1st: Davis-CF, Hill-2B, Bautista-RF, Lind-1B, Arencibia-C, Patterson-LF, Escobar-SS, Thames- DH, Lawrie-3B

  59. so now retard farrell is saying he doesn’t know whether to give vill another start. WHAT THE FUCK?? is this guy intentionally trying to sabotage this team?

  60. your lineup should follow this logic:

    first 3 highest obp
    next 3 highest slug/ops
    next 3 based on ops

    therefore the lineup should look something like this


    but of course we’ll never see this lineup because hill is a white vetrun and can’t bat him ninth

  61. “It just goes back to the “sense of entitlement” gen expecting the rich to take care of the lazy and unmotivated”.

    Wanna guess who tweeted that? You’d think Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, maybe Ann Coulter. Nope, our very own Gregg Zaun.

  62. What? You expected him to be a lefty? Look at that goatee. He’s got wife beating trailer trash written all over him. That being said, I like his analysis and his honesty. So if he does give the Mrs. a backhand from time to time, I can forgive him.

  63. I understand that Snider is only 23 and too young to get written off, but he’s been playing at the major league level for a couple of years.  That might have been a mistake.  Maybe they rushed him and hurt his game and maybe that’s why they are being careful with Lowrie.  Whatever the reason, he’s never really shown any kind of progression.  Essentially he’s the same guy he was when he first came up.  He’s got a ton of potential but it’s possible he’ll never fulfill it here.  

  64. Loewen is nothing, everybody can hit in that league . . .

  65. I watched Snider bat hundreds of times over the last four years, and he has always over-swung and struck out. Granted he is young, but how long does that really have currency around here?

    I’m not saying he is done, read my original post, but rather that he needs to be on a different major league team, so that he can develop or die–this sending him up and down makes no sense when we have Corey Patterson in left . . . therefore, I don’t see him as fitting in the future plans like we all thought he would last year or the year before.  Always enjoy the “never watch baseball” argument though, very in depth.

  66. I actually liked Cecil’s game from a boxscore standpoint . . . he gave up two of the homers (and three runs) in the 1st, and then settled down, won the game, pitched six more innings of 1-earned run ball (the 3rd homer.) There’s a video of Lawrie’s 10th HR up on milb.com and if you watch it, that ball was a lazy pop-up to left that would have been 10 feet (at least) in front of the wall at the skydome. Not a criticism of Lawrie, but rather, we need to take EVERY hitting stat in the PCL with a grain of salt, because those parks are silly. I mean, Cooper was hitting .400 in the middle of the game yesterday, and we all saw what he looked like in Toronto–a solid hitter, but certainly not Ted Williams.

  67. Why in the fuck are they playing what sounds like Christian rock over the highlight of Lawrie’s dinger?

  68. Both Jimenez and Marisnick are on the minor league DL, does anyone have details?

  69. alot like cito, huh?

  70. but mike wilner says travis snider is a sure thing? how could mike wilner ever be wrong?

  71. hopefully mike wilner gets on the job and starts to question farrel’s decisions like he did gaston’s… sigh.


  72. like wilner?


    baseball punditry in toronto is almost as lousy with sub-intellects as those puck-head hockey commentators.

  73. I just don’t see the logic in Hill at 2 and Escobar at 7. Like, none.

  74. Oh.  Yeah.  I don’t like the necessarily either.  I more meant that I liked the idea of those bats in the lineup everday, and not Rivera, E5, Nix etc.

  75. If you go back to the day after Farrell was hired, there were many pieces in the MSM and blogosphere that this new manager really “gets it,” unlike our retired black father. Who could’ve known Farrell was even less cerebral and even more backward in his thinking even than Cito.

  76. No less in depth than belching forth, without talking to one scout or instructor in Las Vegas or the Pacific Coast League, that Travis Snider is “washed up” at 23 fucking years old. Shake yourself.

  77. I can get with that.  Just adding Fortyhands and Thames to the lineup makes it so much more interesting to watch.  It’s really hard seeing Rivera and E5 out there, like impatiently waiting for a terrible movie to end. 

  78. From Espn: 

    Going into the season, there were questions about Jose Bautista’s
    ability to match his 2010 season, in which he hit 54 homers despite
    tallying only 74 total in the preceding six seasons he played in the
    majors. If you thought Bautista would play as well in 2011 as he did in
    2010, you were wrong — he’s better. Back in February, we took a look
    at Bautista’s new contract with the Blue Jays using the ZiPS projection
    system and after looking at his statistics, the model concluded that
    the five-year, $65 million contract Joey Bats signed was a fair deal
    given the uncertainties that existed at the time.

    As great as Bautista was last year, he’s a better player this season. Both
    major estimates of wins above replacement already have Bautista at more
    than 4 wins so far this season, about two-thirds of the way to his 2010
    total in less than one-third of the plate appearances.

    Where Bautista had some small holes in his game last year, he’s
    generally plugged them up. Bautista was actually a little unlucky on
    his batting average on balls in play last year, his .233 being a handful
    of points better than your typical pitcher at the plate. Bautista’s
    .309 BABIP this season, while the highest in his career, is ordinary
    enough that he may be able to maintain it.

    As for strikeouts, he’s reduced his frequency to 16.5 percent, the lowest of
    his career. From Fangraphs’s pitch data, Bautista has been the most
    valuable hitter against fastballs this season. And sliders. And
    changeups. Add in a “mere” 13th in baseball against curves and it’s
    hard not to see that pitchers have come to the same conclusion as the
    supercomputer from “WarGames.” The best move is not to play. As a
    result, Bautista’s on pace for about 150 walks, one of the largest
    numbers in baseball history.

    Bargain Bautista:

    If Bautista lives up to this projection, he will be worth approximately
    $166 million over the life of a contract that pays him $65 million.
    $VALUE (million)









    At this point, the MVP trophy’s going to be pretty hard for Bautista
    to lose. ZiPS has Bautista “only” hitting .269/.391/.585 for the rest of
    the season, which when added with his line so far, gives him a
    .294/.427/.658 total line, a monster line that only looks more monstrous
    when you consider how far offense has dropped off in baseball the past
    two years.

    Using the same assumptions that we made in February (roughly $4.5
    million per win last year with 5 percent growth), Bautista’s moved the
    needle enough that the contract now looks to be an easy win for the
    Jays. It’s rare to change your career outlook based on a year and a half
    of performance, but Bautista’s breakout has been overwhelming enough to
    silence the small-sample-size gnomes.

    So, what’s
    the lesson other teams can take from Bautista’s ascent to stardom? The
    most important thing to come away with is that no matter what the book
    on a player is, to always give them the chance to prove them wrong.
    While a big payroll team with a reasonable expectation of winning the
    division might be too risk-averse to plan on giving playing time to a
    player like Bautista after 2009, small-market teams regularly have holes
    to fill and should focus on filling them on players that could
    potentially surprise.

    While there was little
    indication that Jose Bautista, passed up by every team in baseball on
    multiple occasions, would suddenly become a superstar, it was still more
    likely than that happening with Geoff Blum or Melvin Mora.
    While having a veteran player on the bench has value, teams need to be
    cognizant that there is a trade-off. Kudos to the Jays for catching
    lightning in a bottle.

    Dan Szymborski covers
    baseball for ESPN Insider. He has written about the sport since 2001 for
    the Baseball Think Factory, where he is an editor. He is also the
    developer of the ZiPS Projection system. You can find his ESPN archives here and follow him on Twitter here.

  79. That’s cool.  I feel like scouts, GMs and analysts will be studying Bautista’s career progression for YEARS.

  80. Lived in Edmonton and Calgary for years and was a PCL fan and went to many games. For those blaming the league let me tell you this . The averages are real the light air does not effect that the power numbers on other hand do get over inflated. In triple A the best pitchers a lot of times skip triple A and go to majors so there are a lot of Scott richmond, Josh Towers types starting down there and thats why averages are higher

  81. Some of the best metal out there is actually Christian.  The Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria, Demon Hunter, August Burns Red, As I Lay Dying etc.  They sure don’t sound Christian though.

  82. I love you, Jesus, I want you to walk with me.I’ll take good care of you baby. Call you my baby, baby!You died for my sins, and you know that I would die for you, right?What’s the matter, baby? You tremble at Jesus, baby! Your love, is my life!You’ld know when I talk too, there’s a blackhole in my life! Ooooh!I want’a believe, it’s alright, cause I get lonely in the night and it’s up to you to save me, Jesus, baby!

  83. Ok….

    Farrell and others keep saying that the Jays need someone to hit behind Bautista and we know they have money to spend and some trade chip prospects so lets see what happens.

    I know the idea of Pujols is a big wet day dream but thinking about it more, no other team in the AL East has the money and the spot for him and he did say he wanted to play in the AL East at some point in his career so hell, why not give it a shot. I want nothing to do with Fielder but a guy like Pena would be a pretty awesome guy behind Bautista and he likely wouldnt be overly expensive.

    Also, on an off note, I wanna see Thames break out.

  84. Hahahah..  I think you need to listen to the stuff first.


  85. Switch Escobar with Davis, Lawrie with Hill, and it’d be getting close to right.

  86. The first thing I want to see, before anything else, is this running game chloroformed. We don’t have the personnel to operate this style, it wasn’t our game when we were the best team in baseball and it doesn’t necessarily win in the modern AL East.

  87. When you combine this with the fact that Pujols may not be commanding the price tag he thought he would this off-season… I don’t know.

  88. You meant Pujols, not Pena, right? ‘Cause…..

    Pujols, however, has done quite the damage to his next contract with his performance thus far.  He could easily get hot (he IS, after all, Albert) and wind up with his usual .300+/.400+/.500+.  But what is especially troubling is the years he’ll command.  If he regresses to a .280/.370/.500 for the remainder of his contract, then he’ll be absurdly overpaid at a position that is the easiest one on the diamond to fill.  Just because he’s BEEN Albert Pujols for the last 10 years, it doesn’t mean he’ll BE Albert Pujols for the next 8-10.  Look at ARod’s latest contract. Sucks to your assmar.

    And is he REALLY 31? Not sayin’, just sayin’.  Even Vladdy can lie about his age.

  89. martine is a good-looking woman for almost 45 years old

  90. That sentence is still true if you remove “for almost 45 years old”.

  91. Hey Damian Goddard, put it back in your pants, you are a mid 40s unemployed family man, concentrate on getting your next gig. Sitting in front of the computer in your bathrobe late in the afternoon on a workday, rubbing one out to a former co-worker is not productive.

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