Tank Nation, Anyone?

Far be it from me to ever cheer for my team to intentionally lose games or anything, but… um… maybe it wouldn’t exactly be the worst thing in the world for the rest of this season?

Not that I think that losing a first round draft pick– as opposed to a second– for signing a Type-A free agent would be prohibitive for the Jays or anything. I’m sure that if they want a Type-A player enough to sign him to the kind of mammoth contract it would take to get him in whatever ridiculous maple leaf-adorned uniform they’ll be wearing next year, they’d want him enough to also give up the pick.

But it would sure take the sting out of swallowing hard on a Prince Fielder mega-deal if that pick was protected, wouldn’t it?

And while they do also get the pick back for not signing Tyler Beede this year, and surely will manage a couple extra high picks out of the collection of veteran shitbags they’ve run out there this year, thanks to the supplemental round there’s a pretty big difference between the 15th pick of the first round and the 15th pick of the second– which this year was 75th overall.

I know, I know. As we saw this year, the way the Jays draft they can still get first round talent deep into the proceedings. But still… the higher pick the better, amiright?

And shit… looking at their September schedule– which includes trips to New York, Boston and Tampa, plus vists from the Red Sox, Yankees and Angels– it’s not even going to be all that hard for the Jays to keep themselves among the league’s bottom half. Actually, the season-ending three game set against the White Sox may prove pivotal.

Whatever the case, basically, what I guess I’m trying to say here is, CALL UP KYLE DRABEK! GO ON… DO IT! NOW ALREADY! LET HIM WORK OUT HIS TROUBLES IN THE MAJORS, FOR FUCK SAKES!

Thoughts? Spitting mad disagreements?

Image via MLBTR’s latest Reverse Standings update.

Comments (43)

  1. I’m in.

  2. I’m totally fine with throwing out shitty pitchers to loose games in September, Tallet anyone??

    Just hope that the offense doesn’t regress too much, because it will be interesting to see how well they match up with the Al East.

  3. Im all for a higher draft pick. I would aslo be for signing Prince Feilder, dumping Adam Lind and a couple prospects for a youngish #1b Starter. Or maybe even going completly nuts and dumping half the farm for Clayton Kershaw..

  4. i will still hate it when the sox shit all over us at home next week

  5. Hmmm. Ok I’ll get behind this on one condition.  They beat the piss out of the Orioles.  And fire a couple of “wild pitches” Jeter’s way.

    They might have to lock Lawrie up in the basement for a week or two if they want this plan to be successful.

  6. Yeah, I’m in, even though I’ll complain more than my fair share about seeing the Jays lose games anyway. But really, at this point we’re not in contention, so we might as well try to grab whatever else we can.

    I am also totally against dumping Lind re: comment above, because I’m a firm believer in “he’s got it and it will come back”. Blindly, perhaps, but still … I just hope he doesn’t go all Aaron Hill on us. I’m optimistic.

  7. I’m down with it, but one request:  Can Griffin, Elliot, Rutsey (all Sun/Star sports writers basically) be tied up somewhere until October?  I just can’t deal with the whining until then.

  8. It isn’t tanking if you don’t have a say in the matter.

  9. The compensation system would pass over the Beede pick(22) next year should the Jays sign Type-A?

  10. We were warned there would be “growing pains.”  Let’s see them.  Play the shit out of the kids.  Get Rauch back out there late in games, pronto.  Let the youngsters in the rotattion try to work themselves out of even more jams, even later in games.  And yes, yes to Drabek.   And let the chips fall where they may (i.e. the bottom half of the league).

  11. To me, missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs whether you’re .300 or .500.

    After having to watch the Leafs lose without 1st rounders, I will happily find silver lining in shitting the bed for future success.

  12. Introducing our September centre fielder: Adam Loewen.  Maple boners at the ready! 

    Cooper for 1B tryout part II!
    Give Jeroloman a start!
    The Indian Summer of Tallet!

  13. And one more thing….I’d like to hear some anonymous accusations directed towards Granderson.  Just a swing change, huh? 

  14. It’s a cute idea, but I’d say it would have to stay in the “accidentally on purpose” category.  Tell a team and its fans hey, let’s lose on purpose to put us in a good spot for next year is like a restaurant saying, here eat this garbage from my green bin. I know it tastes bad but ohhhh next year we are going to go to the market and get GREAT stuff for you to eat.  It would be a dispiriting, buzzkill way to end the season.

  15. The Beede pick is protected, no matter how many type-A free agents they sign, which is why I wouldn’t mind the Jays signing CJ Wilson to shore up the pitching staff too.

    Romero
    Morrow
    Wilson
    Drabek/Alvarez/any RHSP
    Cecil

    Add Fielder to the mix and you’ve got what appears to be a very good team. The payroll for next season with a ballpark guess of $15MM spent on arbitration eligibles is around $47MM. The Jays have had a payroll over $70MM for quite a while now, so the Jays will have some coin to gamble with, especially if they can dump Lind and find someone to eat $1-2MM for Teahen.

  16. when i saw the title i kinda flipped, but yeah, “stay in 15th” is a movement we can embrace. and we won’t need to look like complete garbage to do it. i trust Cincy and the White Sox to stay ‘behind’ us (Chicago might even make a little run at the Tigers,) so it’s Cleveland we need to worry about.

  17. No need to worry about Cleveland, they have Thome back now…

  18. Let’s shit the bed next year, too! If you want to tank, tank hard. Maybe even 2013, why not! Then we’ll get awesome draft picks three years running. Watch out baseball world in 2015 or whatever, if there’s any Jays fans left.

  19. I would like us to pick a fight with the White Sox.

    I want them to brawl with this team.

    And I’d like us to throw at Rios.

  20. “My name is Brent and I like to take the most base-level, superficial, unserious, dumbheaded interpretation of things, then, like an indignant fucking asshole, mock that interpretation as though anybody who wasn’t a fucking moron would have actually interpreted it that way. This makes me feel like a real big shot smart guy, even though I’m either too mush-brained to understand what’s going on or just intentionally being a monumental fucking dickhead.”

  21. Brent, stop being introspective.

  22. Lind at his worst is still better than Hill in 2010 & 2011. I would still take Lind over Lyle Overbay.

    I hope for Votto but would take Fielder with Lind as DH.

  23. First, MLBtraderumors is nailing it by putting up reverse standings.

    When you are in draft pick protection area, you really should make sure you stay there if you’re thinking of signing Type A FA’s. Every team is licking their chops for a team at 16th overall to foolishly sign a Type A. The only way to screw over teams is to sign a bunch of them (like when the Jays got almost nothing for Burnett).

  24. I want John Danks to give up HRs to Bautista.

  25. Fuck. You beat me to it. I want that last series against the Black Sux to be the biggest beanfest. Drill Ramirez, Konerko, Quentin, Pierzynski, and what the hell…Rios. George Bell style flying drop kicks to whatever pitcher starts for each of the three games. Vicious takeout slides on potential double plays whether necessary/legal or not. Finally, get the strongest arm to fire a baseball up at the announcers booth and hit Hawk Harrelson in the coconut.

  26. You called it, Jonathan!  “I’m totally fine with throwing out shitty pitchers to loose (sic) games in September, Tallet anyone??”

    Get that man a pint…

  27. Current status: at grocery store, buying economy packs of popcorn in preparation for this surely fantastical series.

  28. I could stand for Fielder & Lind, sure. I blindly, irrationally, soul-wrenchingly do not want to see Lind go — yet, anyway — so I just hope he irons out some of the hitting streakiness, at least to give himself a bit of wiggle room for those folks who are not quite so convinced.

  29. To be fair, it isn’t like Granderson is some journeyman who suddenly developed some power as his age crept into the 30′s.  Hell, he’s got more career homers than Bautista and is younger than him, after all.

    Us Jays fans are far too insecure sometimes/often.

  30. Finish in the bottom 15, then Sign Wilson, Fielder, and Pujols. Screw all 3 teams with the compensation and still have 2 1sts, and 3 or more compensation picks ourselves.

    Then flip the Bird to the Yankees and Red Sox

  31. I’m getting sick and tired of excuses to add another year or two to the 19th annual “2 year plan”. Shouldn’t the Jays eventually get better, rather than spinning their wheels and over-achieving merely to get to .500? Yes, when healthy the position players have gotten better, but there’s little to no depth to the lineup, and the pitching is horrific at best. One consistent starter and a laughable bullpen doesn’t get you into the playoffs, even if they do add another playoff spot next year.

    The Jays need proven good players, not more of  ”let’s trade our proven players for people that look like they might be good players a few years from now”. Open the vault Rogers, I for one am getting impatient. 

  32. Lind as DH??? More like Prince as DH and Lind as 1b…Lind can’t fucking hit.

  33. Fair points, Paul.  Too many have been blindly sipping the “2012 is our year!” thing.  Is it really?  The Jays are 15.5 games out right now behind Sox and Yankee squads (oh yeah, and the Rays too!) that have had plenty of injuries and flawed rosters of their own, and STILL the Jays are miles behind.  Is a free agent or two – even assuming the best will come – going to mask the lack of bullpen depth (mostly meaning closer) and the “throw enough shit against the wall and see what sticks” rotation?  The Jays have had two out of this world years from Bautista and the net impact has been almost nothing, save for getting a few excited that we’ve got a superstar in town.  How much longer does this continue?  Does it happen at a time that the stars align and everybody finds their stride, produces and stays healthy?  Seems what it would take, and I’m about as skeptical as ever, despite some great moves from AA.

    This is, however, subject to change if the game adds a handful of wild cards.  I fear that is what it will take. 

  34. Uh, both Granderson and Bautista are 30 years old. Bautista’s five months older than Granderson, but Granderson’s breakout year came at age 30, while Bautista’s came at age 29.

    Granderson (2004-2010):   27.17 PA/HR = 24 HR/650 PA

    Granderson (2011):   15.48 PA/HR = 42 HR/650 PA

    Bautista (2004-2009):   34.54 PA/HR = 19 HR/650 PA

    Bautista (2010-2011):   13.28 PA/HR = 49 HR/650 PA

    Yes, Bautista’s breakout is more pronounced than Granderson’s but both of them have broken out in a massive way late in their careers compared with anything they did before. Surely, if you’re going to “ask the question” (to quote the little bitch media whore) of one them, you’ve got to “ask the question” of the other. That’s the hypocrisy that people are pointing out. Both of them seem like two of the “good guys” in the game (although Joey Bats could use some anger management and diplomacy training when it comes to dealing with umpires), so I don’t think there’s anything untoward from either of them, but it’s patently absurd to try and convict one of them in the court of public opinion and not the other.

  35. If I ignore you, you’ll go away right? Isn’t that how it works?

  36. So what did I say that was incorrect? You really think the Jays are playoff bound with what they have?

  37. Is Granderson’s jump from a regular mid-20′s guy to 40ish REALLY that ridiculous when he moved from massive Comerica to built-for-lefties Yankee Stadium?  Not even remotely the leap Bautista made, so forgive me if I don’t agree with the age bit in the least.  And to be clear, I don’t recall asking “the question” of Jose, but I get why people would.  Granderson?  Not so much.

  38. No, I don’t think that the Jays are currently playoff bound, but if you can’t see the sea change that’s happened in the direction of this organization since AA took over then I don’t know what else to offer you. Some things to look at:

    1) Farm system: ranked 28th or 29th when AA took over…Prior to this year: #4, and now generally regarded by the experts as #2 behind only Tampa Bay. This is a good thing because these prospects can be used to turn over the MLB roster in addition to being used in trades to get the kind of talent AA is looking for (read: not necessarily expensive free agents on the downside of their careers, who mostly end up taking up roster spots on the back half of their deals, that could be given to younger, better players) to fill the holes while the keeper prospects continue to develop and eventually graduate.

    2) Take a look at the horror show that is the 2009 Blue Jays (AA took over after that season):   http://www.baseball-reference….  
    and realize how much has improved since then. If it’s improved that much on the backs of much younger talent, how much better can it get over the next two or three years?…

  39. …3) Re: Free agents: People seem to forget that the free agents of the
    Jays glory years were all signed to deals of 3 years or less. Pat Gillick
    passed on the 5+ year deals to Bobby Bonilla, Greg Maddux, and Barry
    Bonds (the premium free agent talents available, which is what Pujols, Fielder and Sabathia [should he opt out] will be this offseason), to name three, in order to sign
    Morris, Winfield, Stewart, and Molitor to shorter term contracts, and then he
    still had money left at the deadline to bring in Cone and Henderson. That’s how you work the system. In
    other words, he signed guys whose careers were winding down, and they
    wanted that one last shot at a ring (or two in Morris’ case), but
    because of the fact that their careers were winding down he was able to get them to sign
    shorter term contracts (Molitor’s was the longest at 3 years plus an
    option, which was declined in the 1995-1996 offseason). I have no
    problem with throwing money around and increasing payroll. What I take
    issue with is the longer term contracts (say 5 or 6 to 10 years) regardless of
    who gets signed. That’s a lot of time to get stuck with someone if
    things don’t go as planned (it happens: see B.J. Ryan, Bobby Bonilla, Chan Ho Park, Mike Hampton, Darren Dreifort, Barry Zito, Andruw Jones). A lot of these long term signings seemed like a great idea…At the time…Later, not so much. I’d like to see AA continue with his great trades, and do his best Gillick imitation when it comes to free agents. Others may disagree, but isn’t that what makes baseball fun?

  40. Sorry about the shitty formatting in post #2. I wanted to break the two behemoths up, and Disqus doesn’t seem to like the Copy/Paste function very much.

  41. Oops. Andruw Jones signed a two year contract…But gawd was it ever ugly.

  42. The farm system may be better, but right now, this very minute, the major league team is middle of the road at best. Everyone was touting a 2 year plan for AA. Well now we’re almost one year into it and I see no improvement whatsoever when it comes to the major league pitching staff. As of now we have one good starter and about 15 or so guys fighting for the other spots on the roster. When it comes to position players, bad contracts were moved, but is Thames the answer in left and Lind at first? Are we still one year away, or do we again add another year to the two year plan?

    Also when it comes to free agents, I don’t really care about the lengths of contracts, just get some proven players. No, you can’t just throw money out there to whoever is available, but when we were winning, the Jays were #1 in team payroll. Now they are 23rd. Beeston says Rogers will spend when asked. If 2012 is still “the Jays year”, then now is the time to spend. Spend wisely, but spend. The add another year or two to the two year plan is getting tiresome.

  43. What’s the matter? Yunel Escobar, Colby Rasmus, Kelly Johnson, Jose Bautista, Ricky Romero and Casey Janssen not enough for you? Brett Lawrie and Eric Thames aren’t exactly proven yet, but so far so good. Fantastic in Lawrie’s case in fact. J.P. Arencibia has had a decent first full season as a starting catcher in the AL East. I really like Carlos Villanueva out of the ‘pen as well, but you may differ in your opinion. That sounds like a pretty good start if you ask me. Who are these “proven players” that you keep talking about? Give us some names please. As I noted above, proven players when signed to large contracts can also bust. It’s just that when they do, there’s a bigger mess to clean up than when prospects bust, and all proven players were “just prospects” at some point in their careers.

    Nobody would ever berate a parent for insisting their kid eat their veggies before having dessert because it’s in the long term interest of the child’s health. One of the jobs of a parent is to steer their kids in a healthy direction. When a GM tries to lay down fundamental building blocks for the long term health of a franchise and steer it in the right direction though, well that’s just not good enough. Long term health of the franchise be damned, we’ve waited long enough for dessert dammit. Grrrr, grumble, grumble.

    Look, I get that you want to see exciting, meaningful baseball late into the season. Me too. It’s way past long overdue. But I’m not going to lay the failures and poor asset management of the Ash and Ricciardi regimes at the feet of Anthopoulos. I like what I’ve seen from him so far, and I want to see him continue to move to move forward in the same direction. When he took over I felt a reasonable time frame was three years to be in contention (i.e. at the minimum meaningful games in September), and five years to have actually had at least one taste of the playoffs. That seems fair to me. If by 2013 we haven’t felt the thrill of a pennant race and by 2015 we haven’t tasted the playoffs yet, I’ll be right there with you, but for now AA’s earned my trust.

    That means 2010-2012 should be all about accumulating assets and boy has it ever been so far. It doesn’t mean you exclusively make deals with the future in mind and ignore the present in those years though as the Escobar, Rasmus, Johnson, Lawrie, and even Villanueva (got him for nothing) deals and the Bautista and Romero extensions should demonstrate. Obviously if a reasonable free agent deal comes along you jump all over it, but I don’t want to see lengthy contracts blocking younger, and potentially better (but you’ll never know until you give them a shot) players.

    You and I both want the same thing, we just have a fundamental disagreement about what AA should do to get there. Also, there was never a two year plan. Don’t even go there after the whole J.P. Ricciardi “5 year plan-gate” extravaganza. I never heard a timeline from this front office at all, and that’s the way it should be. Don’t announce your intentions to your fans, because those intentions will get conveyed to your 29 competitors. Stay silent and stealthy and when the time is right (as it often has been so far) strike without trepidation.

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