In the course of poking through Geoff Baker’s turd yesterday I leaned back on an old concept that I’ve mentioned a number of times in combating those who would rather not think about why the Jays aren’t spending as much money as we’d like them to, preferring instead to swallow hard on the numerous theories that the bean counters at Rogers are cutting AA’s balls off and commencing with the rage. It goes like this: many of the investments in the club that Rogers has made aren’t reflected in the big league payroll. There has been increased spending on the draft, on international free agents, and on a massive scouting staff.

The difference this time, however, I was asked just how large these expenditures are, and whether they’re significant enough to show that Rogers might be doing a better job on making good on their commitment to the Jays than it may seem on the surface.

The Jays are listed as having spent $11-million on the 2011 draft. There may have been more budgeted for Tyler Beede, but much of the speculation was that the Jays would sign either him or 74th pick Dan Norris. Even at a Beede-less $11-million, which placed them in the top ten in the Majors, it’s the second straight year they’ve well exceeded league average, which this year was $7.8-million. In 2010 they spent the third most in MLB, $11.6-million, comfortably above the league average of $6.5-million. In total, that’s $22.5-million over two years, compared to $9-million they spent in 2008 and 09.

Internationally the Jays spent $4.8-million in 2010, plus an additional $10-million for Adeiny Hechavarria. This year they signed Dawel Lugo for $1.3-million, and two others (Roberto Osuna and Wuilmer Becerra) who each likely received more than that. They also signed at least five others. If Osuna and Becerra each only cost the same as Lugo, that’s almost another $20-million over two years, without even knowing what others cost (they may be only in the five- or six-figure range). We do know that Osuna’s club received $1.5-million, though whether that number includes what the player received is unclear. The information isn’t entirely clear for any year, so it’s hard to make a comparison. Figures dug up by Jays Journal have them at $1.75-million for 2008 and 09, plus an undetermined fee for Carlos Perez.

As for scouting, as far as I can tell, the figures aren’t out there. On the Jays’ MLB.com Front Office Staff page I count 78 names under the Scouting heading. Not all teams list their employees the same way, though– Detroit has just 28 under all of Baseball Operations, and most teams are similar, and don’t appear to have all the crosscheckers and area scouts the Jays have listed– so I don’t think it’s fair to judge the size of each club’s staff based on what’s listed on these pages. That said, the Jays obviously have a large department there. How significant an expenditure it is to not only employ those scouts but to pay their expenses, and how much farther above league average, and where they were at under Ricciardi, I don’t know. I’d be interested to hear from anyone who does.

There’s also the fact that the club sent money to the Phillies, Angels and Cardinals in order to complete the Halladay, Wells and Rasmus deals. True, the Halladay and Wells deals were cost-saving ones, but that’s money spent that isn’t accounted for in the payroll figures on some sites.

Is there enough money hidden in those non-payroll areas to excuse the Jays for all their frugality? I shouldn’t think so. But it’s there, it offsets much of the MLB payroll decline we’ve seen over the last couple years, and though it doesn’t vault them to anywhere near the top of MLB spenders, nor does it seem like a reasonable figure for a Rogers-backed property to be operating at relative to its competition (they sure piss money away on Sportsnet, don’t they?), it’s certainly more than what’s being accounted for by Geoff Baker.

Comments (95)

  1. The fact of the matter is we can not know if the jays are not big spenders on major league free agents because they cant get the money from Rogers vs dont think the players are worth it vs partly both.  Since we cannot know and the speculation has dragged out for quite some time now, I suggest we stop even speculating on this subject matter and get back to more interesting tidbits..such as is Fullmer Fan related to Ivan Putski Polish Power?

  2. I think it’s worth noting that if we kept Rios and Wells, we’d have an additional $35million on the payroll this year. I wonder if we’d still hear whining about how cheap Rogers is if we still had those two guys? Our team would be no better (and probably much worse), but at least the cheques would be getting cut, right?

  3. If they cut bait on Teahan it will show some of their commitment as well.

  4. stoeten – your face on buschemi’s…..make it happen

  5. Anthopoulous looks more like The Jesus.

    Maybe he can go door to door looking for starting pitching after he gets out of Chino.

  6. The point is – we know these things you’re asking us to consider have effectively been removed from consideration by the new CBA.

    The huge scouting staff made sense 2 months ago. Now, it makes more sense to ask whether it will produce a meaningful ROI.

    ps: disqus stinks.

  7. Scouting becomes more vital with less margin for error in the draft.

    And no, that’s not the point. Because those were expenditures that went well above and beyond where they were two years ago, and need to be accounted for. It says that, at least to that much more of an extent, they will spend.

  8. Doesn’t it make more sense to invest in scouting now? They had previously used money to their advantage in the draft, picking “unsignable” guys in the later rounds and paying way more than anybody else was willing to (Thon, Norris, etc). But now they can’t do that anymore – money can’t get you better draft picks, so the only way to “win” at the draft now is to simply know more than the other teams. The new CBA has really increased the value of scouting, I think.

  9. NorthYorkJays has the numbers on this and was telling me the other day that even when you add up the Jays’ draft/international spending totals with their major league payrolls over the last five years, the Jays still don’t reach the overall average. The major deficit in MLB payroll is just too much for the lesser draft/international spending to overcome.

  10. I believe it was also mentioned recently that the Jays pay their coaches better than anyone else in the league; I can’t for the life of me remember who said this, but I’m pretty sure it was part of the Farrell-t0-the-Red-Sox timeframe.

    So, there’s that.

  11. Who says they can’t get the money from Rogers? PB asked AA if he wanted to go after John Lackey and AA declined to do so. I don’t get why people keep saying this. Anthopoulos is building it from the ground up and only going to go to free agency when the team is ready to contend. He’s said that time and time again and we aren’t contending yet.

  12. The Jays also had the 9th youngest team in the league at 26.6 years old. I wonder how many Jays players are still in their rookie/arb years compared to other teams? That would have an impact on their payroll as well, no?

  13. There’s a mindset that spending lots of money on ballplayers is virtuous, for a major league team, and trying to approach talent acquisition with intelligence or efficiency is cheap and cynical. Under this mindset, Anthopoulos’s acquisition of Sergio Santos is evidence that he’s not really trying to win.

    I mean, I’m not trying to defend Rogers. Maybe they have more money for the Jays to spend; I don’t know. I don’t for a second think that they’d be willing to run the Jays at a loss for any length of time they deem significant. But then, should we be expecting them to? Does any well-run organization do that? Anyway, it’s certainly not the same thing as, “doesn’t care about winning.”

  14. Why is AA the dude?

  15. The main problem in figuring out whether Rogers are being cheap is that we have no idea what the Blue Jays revenues are because, unlike most other teams, we have no idea what their broadcasting revenue is.

    If the 500,000 average viewers per game figures are correct, (http://www.sportsnet.ca/pressr… then it’s entirely possible that Rogers are absolutely screwing the Jays. Without knowing the advertising rates it is difficult to know with any degree of accuracy.

    Could you get someone at the Score to phone Rogers, claim to want to buy some advertising time throughout the season and ask them to send a schedule with the cost for each advertising slot.

  16. Exactly. That’s what drives me nuts about the “Rogers are cheap fucks!” crowd; there’s not any evidence at all that the Jays’ current lack of spending has anything to do with Rogers at all. I’d say if anything, the evidence points to it being AA’s choice.

  17. I’m Bam Bam Bigelow and I AM the beast from the east and your
    pain is my pleasure!

  18. PB asked AA if he wanted to go after John Lackey and AA declined to do so.  

    Beeston’s fake money cracks me up. I see him getting up from a 25-minute sparring session with the toilet, copy of USA Today in hand, having just learned that John Lackey is a free agent. “Hey Alex, you want money to go after this Lackler fella?” he says, then chortles for no adequately explained reason. Anthopolous, not being a fuckhead, laughs politely and declines.

    The best (only?) way for Beeston to approve the money to go after Prince is for Prince’s mug to randomly show up on the Saturday Evening Post, or Grit or whatever print rags Beeston subscribes to. 

  19. No, finding the best players and signing them becomes more vital. I’m not certain that any of the scouts they have on staff help them do that yet. It’s just an assumption we’re making that more scouts = better information.

  20. Given the LA Angels recently signed a 20 year/3 billion dollar tv deal (which works out to 150 million per season)…

    How much are the Jays TV rights worth?
    Considering that Rogers uses the Jays to fill content on their stations across Canada, is the Angels tv market significantly larger than the Jays tv market?  Keeping in mind, that the Angels share their market with the Dodgers, and the state with the Padres, Giants and Athletics…

    Its hard to say, because we don’t get to see a deal signed. It’s internal. Its what those douchey MBA students call “synergy.” In reality, Rogers may be making boatloads of money off the Jays and telling us they can’t afford to spend more until the fans come out and then they will increase the payroll proportionally to keep profits in tact… So as long as we keep watching they don’t see a need to make dramatic changes to their model…

  21. Yeah, and keep in mind also that while they had to throw in 5 million (?) to make the Wells deal happen, they basically gave Rios away because Chicago was (in actual fact) doing them a favour. So When the Jays play ‘big spender’, like every other team that does, they make mistakes. Boston and NewYork can afford that.

  22. I’m not saying that it necessarily would over the last two years either, but that’s when the real change happened, so the first three years of that five year data would be skewing their spending the other way due to their below average draft and international spending.

  23. I’m under the impression that they already did both.
    Also, scouting isn’t going to tell you who is going to develop the ‘feel’ for a wicked out pitch three or four years down the line.

  24. Isabella – your ass on my face…..make it happen

  25. Hey Stoeten were not spending that much more in the draft then Boston or Yankees, Rays, or international signings, compare that wth the Yankees, Redsox even Baltimores payroll we maybe add 8 million more then whatever these 3 teams pay for the draft and international singings.
    If we have 5 more scouts then Yankees and Redsox, rays, Baltimore add another 1 million for travel and accommodations I make for then a fucking scout. 9 million more maybe then the other four but if you add all the draft signings and other things you mentioned, were at 85 million maybe but then the Yankees are way over 200 million the redsox are close to 200 million, the rays are at 65 million Baltimore is over 100 million.

    We dont have to spend but stop pretending that our draft and international signings bring us to there level of spending it doesnt.
    We dont have to spend our rebuild is fine it should have fully happend along time ago, we can spend 100 million if Baltimore can does that mean do it no, but we can.
    So where is the fucking money?

  26. And whats up with that Latin America deal? No more than $3mill in bonuses? You need good scouts to get the best kid available.

  27. Last year’s opening day salary average was 93 million. The Jays have a long way to go to just to get to league average. Even excluding the Yankees, it was 89 million. The Jays have no excuse to not be spending league average money!
    The Jays were 23rd in payroll. The fans don’t want to hear about money constraints.

  28. I’m watching you.

  29. But since  AA has been GM? Bet they’re way over the league average.

  30. Uh, no intense offended there. 

  31. I don’t think a lot of fans think that. You’re really oversimplifying things. Most here know the cheapest and most efficient use of team resources is to develop players internally. FanGraphs alone have shown just how much surplus value draft picks bring to the table when they reach the majors and start producing. The problem is that no system, no matter how deep it is, can supply you with the players you need at every position and get you to the playoffs. All we are asking for as fans, is that when the right pieces are available the team doesn’t cheap out on us.  Just look at the amount of discussion around players like Gio and Santos. If most of us were of that mindset we’d all be saying yeah wtg! Get more more major leaguers now now! The fact is, most of us are not, and some even worry about giving up high end prospects for a closer now.

    Maybe you’re right to a certain extent and the natural inclination is to believe that Rogers will do just that very thing and make excuses when the time comes. However, you also have to ask fans what has Rogers and previous ownership done or not done the last 20 years to make fans feel that way? For now I’m trusting AA will have the backing to do what he said he is going to do and I’ll wait like a good little fanboy even though part of me is screaming we should be in on guys like Darvish and Fielder.

  32. Poorly written but the point is our level of spending even with the draft and international signings, and additional scouts still is not at other teams levels.
    So where is the fucking money?
    Hopefully AA just doesnt want to spend it, if not Rogers is hoarding money. 

  33. It’s my belief that AA has a short list of players he wants at each position and updates it on a regular basis. He has his own criteria, and guys like Fielder -as great a hitter he is- probably got rejected on a number of counts, not the least of which was value return for the dollars spent. I read once that he not only wants great athletes but also great athletes with good attitudes. 

  34. Player costs and revenue for the Jays in 2011 are expected to be $101m and $168m respectively.   (60% of revenue is more than most sports and likely in line with the league average)

  35. Nice to see others rejecting the onus is on the fans bs.

  36. Source?

  37. I don’t think a lot of fans _here_ think that way.

    But in general I do think that Rogers, as corporations go, doesn’t inspire a lot of trust in, well, in anybody really. I think if there was a way that they could rig it so that the Jays could succeed, could win the World Series, in such a way that all the enjoyment of it went right to Rogers shareholders while making we the fans _less_ happy, they’d do it in a second. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they were working on it.

    But in the meantime, the Jays fielding a winning team is still a win-win situation, so we can count on their self-interest to the extent that the math works out.

  38. Even with the upped draft/international spending, the major decline in major league payroll since he took over indicates that isn’t the case.

    We don’t know how much more they are spending on scouting, sure, but that isn’t likely to be enough to make up for the deficit in MLB payroll either.

  39. I dont trust a company that charges people for sending and receiving text messages when it doesnt cost them a fucking thing.
    Made me buy unlimited those fucking bastards.
    I would pay a Fielders fee or even Darvish on my bill, even though they dont need more of my money.

  40. I guarantee you I make more then a fucking scout, so they will need a shit more scouts then every other team to even suggest they spend a hell of alot more on scouts then other teams.

  41. This is true. 

    I’ve often wondered if there’s a set number of games the Jays have to win to activate the larger payroll portion of the rebuild.  Obviously they wouldn’t announce this to the press or anything, but maybe AA wants to see a 90 win team before going to free agency.

  42. That’s a good point regarding self interest.

    The one thing the above article is forgetting in this case is that Beeston was asked directly if it was an all costs included number when he mentioned his magic $120 million figure and he replied that it was strictly major league salaries. 

    Other than that, you could be correct that salaries have remained at this level because of those expenditures. Though after listening to AA talk about his distaste for free agency in general and the lack of value to be found there, I have a strong feeling it’s just his personal choice to keep salaries where they are for now.  Maybe he sees it as an essential component for getting the money when the time is right. Probably not the case but you never know.

  43. I’m still waiting for you to say where this money to push us over the league average would go to.

  44. post of the week!  great post

  45. Rogers is a publicly traded company so its annual report is online. The Blue Jays are an “asset” in Rogers Sports Entertainment, which itself is categorized under “Media” in describing revenue. The other asset listed under RSE is the Rogers’ Centre. The total revenue (note not operating profit) for “Media” for 2010 is listed as $1.5 billion, with RSE comprising 12%, or $180 million. So if I read it correctly, the Blue Jays and Rogers Centre bring Rogers a revenue (not operating profit) of $180 million. I didn’t search to see what total expenditures on the Jays are or maitenance for the Dome. It’s also not exactly clear, to me at least, if advertising revenues from broadcasts are lumped in with RSE or what they call “core media” or RSE.

  46. Steve Buschemi’s face basically symbolizes DJF’s:

    “When is AA going to blow his load and what-have-you on the free agency market”

    Or at least make a huge trade so we can all cheers our caucasions together.

  47. I like it… addition by subtraction

  48. Stoeten, it’s nearing Christmas time, so I am going to give you a rare compliment:

    This site is a beauty. By the way, to follow it up with a gift, do you like Gillette mach 3′s or 4′s?

  49. agreed, but I think a lot of people feel that the Prince Fielder’s of the game, don’t become available every year. it’s not like we’ll start signing players and then win that year…

  50. Only J.P’s face can ever ever go on the Jesus.

  51. Yeah I’ve already had a good look through the A/R and with the way everything is lumped in together you really can’t tell what’s what with any degree of accuracy. The only thing you can tell is that Media division isn’t exactly making a ton of profit. That said, the same fog surrounding everything else applies to that profit as well. You just don’t know what’s what.

  52. Not that I have anything against Isabella, but isn’t low brow humour part of what DJF is all about?  Did you ever threaten to ban guys for saying they wanted to lick Sara’s ass?

  53. I would really love it if AA called up Cashman, then licked the phone while saying: “I’m going to fuck you this season!”

  54. Can anyone think on any recent examples of teams that have made the jump into sustainable contention by greatly increasing their spending?  Or any where the spending jump wasn’t accompanied by something like a new stadium to boost attendance?  For people who insist on immediate spending, would one or two fringe contending seasons, maybe one wildcard appearance before restructuring be preferable to a string of consistent contending starting a year or two later?

    Seriously, look at virtually any team that you think of as highly successful in the wildcard era.  Even with the big spenders, you’ll almost always find that the ones who stay successful are the ones who reach contention, or at least have a season on the fringes, before opening the checkbook.  If I could choose between reaching contention as cheaply as possible or as quickly as possible, I’d choose cheap, because it’s uncanny how much better teams do when they’re well below budget at the start of their contention window.

    I’d almost go so far as to say that the key to sustainable success is to not be afraid to piss off the fan base by being cheap until the team is confident in it’s ability to contend.  The only exceptions I could find were teams that had consistently high attendance even during down periods, which the Jays don’t, and teams benefitting from attendance spikes from new stadiums, which the Jays aren’t.

  55. Stoeten, you should have put Colby Rasmus’s face on the The Dude, cause that kid seems like he smokes a whack of dope. Hope he can hit this season.

  56. Very good point. I think the spending on the scouting dept will continue. I think AA sold Rogers on the idea that spending 5 million more on the draft per year would reap excellent benefits going forward by getting prospects with more upside. I have no problem with that.

    It is logical that that the Jays would be considered big spenders if we had the 2 albatross contracts of Rios & Wells.

    However, good teams like the yankees & red sox would write these contracts off as mistakes & get better replacements.

    it seems that a part of the fan base is convinced that the jays cannot afford to take on any big contracts for fear that the players may not perform well throughout the contract.

  57. re: payroll parameters vs $150M payroll – I can picture other areas of Rogers corporate screwing the consumer in a similar way.  Just look how wireless offers new activations better offers than existing customers (albeit the most obvious example).  Why do we think the MLB team department is any different ?  I mean i trust in AA, but he doesn’t sign checks.

  58. remember our rumour season corresponds (unluckily for the Jays) with their season ticket selling season

  59. I don’t understand the constant obsession with spending money.
    Can we not take a look at how spending money has worked out for other teams (Cubs, Mets, Orioles, Astros) or maybe take a look at all those great contracts signed last year (Werth, Dunn, Crawford). Spending money does not equate to winning. Being smart with your assets does.
    I personally am fine with the slow rebuild for now and will only get upset when the team claims poverty when trying to lock up their own young stars. Yes a shiny new Prince Fielder would be great to see this year but signing him to a 10 year deal will handicap the team in the future and force another magical salary dump (and Arte will already have Pujols cluttering his payroll).
    The team has enough assets to try and pry a controllable young arm out of someone’s system.
    IN AA I TRUST

  60. The fact that Wells was moved when it was too late to put that money back into MLB payroll has to account for some, right?

  61. Murky, yes, and not a ton of profit, maybe. You’d have to guesstimate how much running 5 (?) minor league teams cost, cost of training staff and scouts, PR, building maintenance etc. Would those things cost the difference between the Jays 2010 payroll (the amount I can’t remember) and that $180 million revenue? That’d be over $80 million anyways. And I’d imagine most of the revenue from the Skydome comes from the Jays. What else is it used for? Argos. are there concerts there anymore?

  62. My source is an analyst report.  I believe it was the 30Nov2011 National Bank Financial report.  It also notes RSN revenues in 2010 were $213m and EBITDA was $55m.  That margin was consistent with the margin for other specialty channels so it kinda takes away from the thought that RSN is underpaying for Jays games.

    Based on revenue of $210m for RSN, I’d imagine the Jays broadcast rights cost less than $50m per year.

  63. Lotsa travel expenses, too, but you’re right, it’s a small part of the pie.

  64. Indeed and if you look at the how the media group is broken down in the notes section you`d see a few other categories. How much of the advertising revenue is related directly to the Jays or how much of the retail. It`s impossible to know. It`s possible Rogers doesn`t even know.

  65.  I haven’t looked though Rogers annual reports, but the thing to keep in mind is they are all based on accounting and not on free market data..

    Because Rogers owns the Jays and Sportsnet there isn’t a free market transaction where we the fans see “Jays content has been sold for $140 million this season to network XYZ.” In other words the methodolgy they use to allocate Revenue from content purchased internally isn’t as telling as what it actually is worth.

    I don’t know how much the TV rights are worth, but after seeing that LA Angels deal I can’t help but wonder how much money the Jays actually bring in..

    If we’re to assume that the tv rights were worth $150 million (similar to the Angels) plus 2 million ticket sales at an average price of $30 plus say $10 million in luxury boxes, then we could assume that revenue is over $210 million (plus merchandise and advertising inside the stadium) and whatever the net gain or loss from revenue sharing is equal to.

    It’s obviously really expensive to operate an MLB franchise (8 minor league teams plus office staff plus major league payroll plus all the travel of everyone within the organization)… So lets assume that everything outside of payroll costs 50 million per season…

    Based on pure speculation I would assume the Jays Revenues are north of 200 million and the with a 70 million dollar payroll the expenses are in the ballpark of 130 million…

    So I wouldn’t be shocked if I heard the Jays are making over 50 million a year for Rogers..

  66. Please don’t assume the broadcast rights are worth $150m.

  67.  Whys that? Are the Angels broadcast rights worth significantly more than the Jays rights?

  68. If I had the report in front of me, I could be a little more precise, but I don’t believe the Jays EBITDA (earnings before interest taxes depreciation and amortization) combined with the Jays-related RSN EBITDA would be more than $20m this year on combined revenue of maybe $215m.

  69. smallcaps, RSN’s revenue is about $215m per year…that is “free market revenue”….and includes ad sales for all their programing.  Their EBITDA is about $55m, meaning their expenses total $160m….i’d conservatively say less than 40% of their costs should be JAys broadcasting rights.  Probably closer to 30%.  Or about $50m….that’s tied to market revenues for RSN so it indicates the fair market value of the broadcast rights.

  70. Thanks for the clarification..
    Still unsure how the Angels broadcast right are worth 3 times what the Jays broadcast are rights are worth.
    Any idea? Is it just that much of a bigger baseball market?

  71. I love the idea of this analysis.  You now need Drew to put it in a graph for you. Totals would help strengthen your case.

    This made me think of another payroll strategy that would never be acknowledged, but that we’ve seen employed: “flexibility.”  A great way to pry an elite prospect off of a team would be to take a bad contract with them (like Teahen).

    I bet in the AA spreadsheets there is a 2012 and 2014 budget column, thats big – $10M – reserved to take a teams bad contract with a top prospect.

  72. Bob Elliott had an article this year outlining all the additional scouting hires for 2011. I can’t find it, but mop up duty references a 2010 article from Bob stating AA hired 32 new scounts in 2010: http://mopupduty.com/tools-are

  73. Annual Report lists Rogers’ Media (as opposed to Cable and other operations) 2010 “adjusted operating profit” as $150 million, and Rogers Sports Entertainment (that’s the Blue Jays and Skydome) as comprising 12% of total Rogers Media revenue that year. The tranlsation may not be precise, but 12% of $150 million is $18 million operating profit.

  74. The 50 million sounds about right. The figure from 2009 about CBC paying 150K to Rogers per game plus 50K in production costs means about 200K per game for breakeven or 32 million. I think 50 milliopn sounds about right since the team is more popular now thaqn 2009. During the summer, look at the number of Rogers repeats to see if ads are sold.

  75. dude you do realize a rebuild generally means you shed over paid vets and bring up young controlled players, of course payroll goes down. I have yet to see you put anything in perspective and just bitch and troll because they won’t spend. who the fuck are we not “buying” that fits the clubs direction and needs? what you think the team needs and spends is a lot different than even the other fans here let alone the actual educated, informed professionals that have access to more information and have real responsibilities. fuck at least offer something other than Rogers won’t spend…boo fucking hoo

    fucking fuck shit bitch ass cunt whore (not part of my post)

  76. Rogers doesn’t charge for receiving text, if you are they must really hate you lol

  77. rogers also advertises it’s other services on sportsnet, at games, on the radio…etc…so again, the accounting is not going to show what they’re making because they’re so vertically integrated it’s a meaningless shell game you’re playing in even trying.

    they also, it is worth noting, own the skydome. and, i have no idea what their expenses are, but i do know that 1) they charge $10 for a beer and 2) they’re effectively the largest retailer of alcohol in the province.

    to put that in perspective, the leafs had under 800, 000 fans come see them last year. that’s less than half of even the WORST year in Jays history. i have no idea what a beer costs at the acc, but I bet it isn’t $20, and i’m going to go out on a limb and say that the leafs/acc/etc are not losing money on alcohol.

    what i’m getting at is that since bars in ontario stay in business, and most charge less than $10/pint…my gut says you could buy fielder with beer money alone. but hey, that’s just a shot in the dark. it’s not like rogers would release its financials.

  78. What do you think they saved on Halladay and Wells contract per year? I’m guessing roughly 30-35 mill. That would put them well over whatever your average is but they’d have no hope of ever seeing the playoffs again. AA should get credit for dumping those contracts and giving the team a much better future. 

  79. Unlimited now but they charged, 15 cents for each received text message, I dont know if they still do this, but yeah they definitely did in 2009.
    They do hate me.

  80. Just to clarify, the Jays didn’t give Hechevaria $10 million last year.  They signed him to a 4 year $10 million contract, so they gave hime $2.5 million last year.

    Also, spending three million more than the average on the draft and having 10-20 extra scouts making $40,000 each doesn’t make me feel much better about not having a good enough offense or defence in 2012 to be competitive.

  81. Few points:

    1. Jays spent 4.18m internationally in 2010. http://www.baseballamerica.com

    2. Hechavarria got an MLB deal so his bonus is spread out over the life of his contract. 

    3. It’s important to recognize that while the Jays did spend a fair amount on the draft, it was more a function of them having a ton of draft picks, not them going overslot because they had reallocated payroll money to be aggressive in the draft. To quote Jonathan Mayo:

    “Four Clubs that spent the most money in excess of MLB’s slotting recommendations from 2007-2010 were the Nationals (Strasburg, Harper), Tigers, Red Sox and Yankees.”

  82. Peter Gammons said it in one of his regular WFAN interviews with Mike Francesa. He said exactly that – the Jays pay their coaches “better than any team in baseball” and that this was a great advantage for the “big market teams”.

    If you want the hear the interview go to wfan dot com, hit the link for the Mets, and on the right side of the page under Mets Audio look for the October 25th Peter Gammons with Mike Francesca file. At the 3 minute mark they start talking Blue Jays, Farrell and Red Sox and out of that comes Gummo’s high praise for the Jays’ spending.

  83. Greater LA is 15 million people albeit with two teams, and also has a per capita GDP (taking into consideration PPP) probably 15% higher than the Canadian average, with a lot more “corporate” power locally, and likely a higher percentage of baseball fans among general population. Don’t know if that translates into a triple of the Jays’ rights or not. Tough to value without real numbers.

  84. … and everyone would be mad at management instead of the owners.  Same shit, different pile.  I bet people would shut up awful goddamn quick about payroll if the Jays made the playoffs regularly.

  85. Surprised 26.6 years was only good for 9th!

  86. Awesome Photoshopping!!!!
    (oh yeah; great post as well)

  87. I thought it was 25…which was way over most MLB teams.

  88. Well, no. The scouts are basically there to discover future talent. But they also scout other MLB teams to assess prospective trades and FA’s.

  89. They had a lot of draft picks and paid a lot of bonus money. This is a good thing isnt it? 

  90. 8 year olds…

  91. For 2 seconds I thought the photoshopped AA was Nick Cage, and I couldn’t for the life of me remember this scene from Raising Arizona.

    No more photoshopped facial hair.  It’s irresponsible.

  92. I think the point of this is not that the scouting, coaching, international signings, etc. make up for the shortfall (relatively speaking) of the major league payroll. Rather, if Rogers really and truely are “CHEAP FUCKS” (and really, we don’t know for sure, yet) they wouldn’t be spending above average in those areas either. A truely cheaply run team would be spending short in all those areas. There is no financial reason for Rogers to pay the coaching staff above average or hire more scouts, and pay them better. It does not have a direct impact on the income of the club. UNLESS, you consider that spending in those areas attracts better talent, which leads to better development, which leads to better players, which leads to better results on the field, which leads to better attendance, higher ad rates and higher income. They would also realise that the better players are going to cost more, and there is no way Rogers is stupid enough to put those measures in place only to piss away talent. The money will be there. Maybe not at Beeston’s mythilogical $150million levels, but it will increase.

    I think AA is wrong in not going hard after Fielder, but his only mistake thus far was Franky Frank for Mathis’ backup, so I’m willing to cut him some slack. And I hope he want balls deep and all in for Darvish, but if his legion of scouts (and his own eyes) didn’t feel Darvish’s talent would be top tier for the AL East, then I’ll trust him there too.

    IF, they go cheap when Lawrie’s a superstar and trade him, or when Hutchinson is close to winning a Cy Young, then I’ll have a problem. Until then, I see the modest and prudent spending on the foundation and I look forward to seeing what else is out there that none of us have a fucking clue about…yet.

  93. Take Halladay’s usual 15+ wins, add one or two from not allowing Jon Rauch into the game, and the Jays make the wildcard this year.

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