Welp, that’s it. It’s official. The Yu Darvish bidding has been won by the Texas Rangers.

It’s immensely disappointing, but we’ll have to give it some time to assess the damage and to figure out just what this means, how serious Rogers is about spending, where the club goes from here, and what other moves Alex Anthopoulos has up his sleeve. It’s back to the drawing board, but missing out on Darvish is hardly a make-or-break move for the franchise. It just… you know… kinda sucks. Plenty of time this winter for silver linings and apologetics. Right now, well… this…

Comments (467)

  1. If the most significant move AA makes this offseason is Molina – Santos, then I will be just as disappointed as you guys.  But I really doubt it.

  2. and those moves resulted in 81 wins. remember it’s his job to add talent just like every other GM.  At some point you have to do more than just shuffle the deck every year with .500 teams..

  3. Well this sucks.  I mean every fan wants to be able to swing their dick no matter if its over wins or the money they can spend.  I for one, don’t want to have to listen to every other MLB reporter talk about how the Jays just don’t have the money….I think the fan interest would have paid to have this guy pitch for Toronto..this is definatly a lunch bag let down, and I am sure this won’t help the Jays in any way.  AA now has a big job infront of him..and hopefully he can still pull off moves that will get us wins in the New Year.

  4. Arg.  You don’t just take this team where it was at the end of 2009 – (well under .500, aging, underperforming, and overpaid with a barren farm system and a looming Halladay trade) sign a couple guys and turn into a team that can beat the Yankees and Red Sox over 162 games.

    It needed a total fucking overhaul.  And it got it.  There are now young, controllable players with upside at many positions, and one of the best farm systems in the game.  Maybe that meant a step back in wins in 2011, but it was necessary.

    Next step is taking this core and competing for the playoffs.  I want to see them spend more money just like you guys do.  I wish they had gotten Darvish too.

    But I also think that it is reasonable for AA to make improvements that don’t involve Yu (or Prince, even though I’d love that too).

  5. barren farm system? that’s funny. most of the talent on this team are JPR picks. There is not upside at many positions.  They are good at only 3, 3rd, SS and RF.

    This core as you put it is worse than the teams they are competing against, NY, Boston, tampa, angels, rangers etc.  And those teams keep getting better with tampa locking up their stud pitcher, texas getting darvish, angels getting wilson etc.

    You haven’t given any explanation as to how you expect this team to suddenly vault the teams above them with the players currently assembled.  You’re just drinking the alex koolaid, but it’s really antifreeze.

  6. They won 86 games because Halladay, Wells, Marcum, Burnett, Ryan and Downs were on the team and did well.

    The team now is totally different, and it barely made it to .500 last year. without bautista they would have finished where the a’s did with a team of no ones in a shitty division. al east =!= other divisions.

    they need to add 10 wins to get to 90. i don’t see where they add the marginal wins to do this outside of signing fielder as step #1.

    the rays drafted longoria, upton and price 1,2,3 overall. the jays don’t have that luxury. they need something like pedroia, youkilis, and ellsbury to come out of their system. but in the meantime, they might as well spend. its not like manram’s contract in boston looks bad in retrospect. he basically led them to the ws in 2004. that’s a model i can get behind. if they trade for kershaw, or even felix…that would work if they got a pedro for pavano type deal. but it’s not often that last year’s cy young is trade in their prime. just like ti’s not often that a darvish or a fielder are available in free agency. just like both of those guys will still be good in 5-7 years when the team may actually have a chance of being good.

  7. I’m already over this.

    It was fun to have the Jays involved in this and to see the type of excitement it created within the fan base. However, I’m kind of glad that AA didn’t let a crazy bid by the Red Sox from 2006 dictate his approach and he bid an amount that he thought was appropriate.

    Now, can we focus on the fact that our fucking first baseman is Mike Jacobs?

  8. Garza and Beltran would be fine, I’d be happy with them making any major additions at all. I certainly don’t expect any major free agent signings, though.

  9. I agree, jose carried this team on his back. It’s not reasonable to expect him to ops 1.000 every year.  At best we’re looking at a .900 guy going forward.  And I don’t think we can expect more from romero. The only hope is if hutchison, alvarez, drabek suddenly become stud pitchers.

  10. “barren farm system? that’s funny. most of the talent on this team are JPR picks”

    I don’t want to spend 5 minutes googling right now, but after 2009 the Jays were considered to have one of the worst systems in MLB.  This year it’s been speculated they might have the best.  All that within two years.

    “”This core as you put it is worse than the teams they are competing against”

    Yes, it’s not as good as the best teams in baseball.  (And still wouldn’t have been with Yu).  But it’s improving, and it’s a shitload better than where they were.  You can’t just snap your fingers with this shit. 

    “You haven’t given any explanation as to how you expect this team to
    suddenly vault the teams above them with the players currently assembled”

    I’m not the GM!  I have no fucking idea!

    But with the prospects the team has, it’s not a stretch to think that AA should be able to put a major trade or two together.  No idea what that might be.  No idea if he does it.  But the minor league depth to greatly improve the MLB squad should be there.

    “You’re just drinking the alex koolaid, but it’s really antifreeze.”

    I want Rogers to spend more money.  I wish they had signed Yu.  I’d love for them to sign Prince.  If AA does make another major move or two this offseason I’ll be sorely disappointed. 

    None of that changes the fact that A) considering where this team was two years ago, I’m very happy overall with the job AA has done turning the team around, B) I’m optimistic about the direction of the team and C) With a couple moves, the Jays should at least be able to put themselves in a position to play some meaningful games this year – especially if we’re looking at a 2nd WC.

  11. why make any more moves? the team isn’t going to do anything except risk giving away future stars by getting a high-walk 3-win ceiling guy like gio. even garza’s rumoured price is far too high.

    latos woulda been good, but they lost out.

    here are a list of young ‘controllable’ arms that are worth drooling over: kershaw and felix. after that you have guys who will be FAs next year: cain, greinke who also happen to be a tier lower in my opinion. the braves have a shitload of talented arms, but are rumoured to be shopping only jurrjens, who sucks worse than gio. Tommy Hanson is awesome. teheran has nasty stuff, but hasn’t put it all together yet.

    basically, the list of guys the jays should be looking at is: latos kershaw and felix. now that the m’s have hope for paxton, walker and hultzen + ackley, they aren’t going to dynamite anything just yet. now that the dodgers’ financial woes are nearly behind, they arne’t doing anything.

    basically, the white sox might salary dump peavy. they might, for a ransom, part with danks or floyd, both of whom have out-performed their ability, making them bad trade targets. then you have the astros, who have wandy rodriguez, who is basically an older version of gio. or bud norris, who again, probably isn’t that great, but will cost too much. that’s the trade market, as far as i can tell.

    darvish woulda been nice. but i guess they could always bid on matt cain or greinke next year (they won’t – because ‘there is a value they assign to everyone’ bs line). and to be honest, those contracts will look shitty in 7-8 years.

    anywayyyyyyyy, point is: the jays suck. tank nation 2012 in the house.

  12. They won 85 games in 2010.  The season before last.  Post Halladay, Burnett, Ryan.

  13. I should point out they went 15-3 against baltimore that year.  More fluke than anything else.  You can’t do that every year which is why this year they dropped back to 81.

  14. 4-Win vernon Wells that year, too. Versus…i dunno, i expect Rasmus might be good enough to avoid posting negative wins next year. so…there’s that. maybe lawrie repalces wells’ numbers.
    i have no idea who will replace marcum/cecil’s #s…
    they have an outside shot at 85 wins, i guess.

    again, ZiPS says they have 6% chance of the wild card. so, since they haven’t gone to the playoffs in 20 years…that means they’re due, right? /statsfail.

    just accept that this team is not really that good. at least kelly johnson can take walks. but who is going to drive him in?

  15. what difference does it make where your farm system is ranked?  I’m sure KC has a great farm system and oakland too. It’s really nice to see the fishercats in the playoffs and not the jays.  Who are these stud players that are ready to be called up?

    the core is not improving and it’s not better, it’s just younger.  BIG difference.  wells and rios were far better in their prime than rasmus/thames. buck/JPA are the same. lind/overbay same

    you are right, the jays could probably package some prospects to get a stud player, but then doesn’t that deplete the farm system that you have been touting?

    the facts are the facts. in baseball if you are a below avg payroll your chances of playoffs are the same as getting a kim jon ill pansuit.

  16. You’re nitpicking over 4 wins?  Who the fuck cares?

    The POINT is that the POSSIBILITY of putting together a team that could win in the high 80s is clearly there.  If the roster doesn’t show that to you, then a glance at the 2010 record should (Orioles or not).

    I am not saying it’s likely.  I am saying it’s possible.

    Writing off the next couple years is over-reactive garbage.  But if ‘fuck this. everything is pointless, nothing is going to happen’ is how you want to approach things, then go for it.

  17. I just wonder what attendance is going to look like.  there is going to be tremendous fan disappointment if alex trouts out this same shitty lineup.

  18. people don’t want a 34 year old Fielder in 2017, but for some reason they want to park the dump truck of money at Beltran’s already 35 year old door?
    ok…
     

  19. “what difference does it make where your farm system is ranked”

    The difference is that you can use some of these young players with value to acquire MLB players that will help the club.  Or hold on to them and hope they’ll improve your club.  Are you serious with that question?

    “he core is not improving and it’s not better, it’s just younger.  BIG
    difference.  wells and rios were far better in their prime than
    rasmus/thames”

    Disagree.  From 2009, I think the core is absolutely better.  I’m not talking about Wells and Rios in their prime, I’m talking about from when AA took over and this team was bottoming out.

    “you are right, the jays could probably package some prospects to get a
    stud player, but then doesn’t that deplete the farm system that you have
    been touting?”

    Isn’t the point of this conversation that we’re talking about if the Jays can compete next year??  They have the prospects to make deals to improve the team next year. That is what I’m saying.  That’s why prospects matter.  That’s you shouldn’t assume nothing else will happen this offseason.  It’s not like I’m the only person saying this.  God.

  20. You make good points but you think the Rangers valued him at 51.7 that’s just a little more then Darvish adding to my point that biding to make a record for the highest posting fee for the best pitcher to come out of japan is a safer bid.

    If the Bluejays thought he was worth 45 million why not jsut bid higher then 51 million.
    Some team was going to bid higher then Dice K, has nothing to do with worth it’s baseball, they hate war.
    Bidding hihgher then Dice K is smarter then bidding under, it’s simple as that.
    I thought every team that bid on Darvish would consider biding 51 just because of Dice K.
    Baseball Gm’s have the memory of a goldfish, Dice K horrible contract wasnt even on the mind of certain gms.

    The Rangers bid that number for a reason to set a record if they lost fine they bid the higher then the previous record if they won great they get to talk to the player they want.
    I guarntee you Texas does not value him 600 k more then Dice K

    Like some other guy said Teaxas bid higher then Dice K for a reason because they are smart.
    Doesnt matter about Dice K contract doesnt matter about how much you feel the player is worth throwing the most money at  a japanese player ever, is just  a smart bid.

    If Toronto bid 52, or 51.9 doesnt matter Texas would have been very comfortable with the bid they posted and would move on.
    Just like AA will move on, Darvish was not worth 51 million to him, what he bid we will never know but if he truly wanted him he surley should have bid higher then the previous record.

  21. i expect small growth from last year. lot of buzz amongst the late-20s/early-30s-set who remember 92-3 and the cheerleaders like Stoeten, et al, who speak to them.

    i’m sure attendence will continue to be tied to the playoff race, so until then…2million will be about the limit, i’d guess.

  22. The thing about this whole Darvish fiasco is that the Blue Jays have literally done absolutely nothing. They never said they bid on Darvish. They never gave any indication how much they wanted Darvish. Everything about the Blue Jays and Darvish has been fabricated. Fabrications made up by the media who are just so hungry to be on top that they’ll just spew out and repeat anything they hear. If anything this just goes to show how lazy and poor baseball journalists can be at times.

    This isn’t a PR nightmare for the Jays. They didn’t do anything and it will all be water under the bridge by the end of the off season.

  23. Fielder is going to make 20 to 25 mil, and is looking for 8 to 10 years.

    Beltran was speculated on MLBTR today to get something like 13 a year for 3 years.

    That’s a fairly large difference.   And Beltran’s stats have been awesome.

    Having said that – I’d rather Fielder.  I’d love it if they signed him.  If they don’t though, I think Beltran is an interesting choice.

  24. Could have happend we will never truly know, AA could have bid  a dollar or nothing we will never know.
    Right up there with JFK.

  25. you pointed out 85 wins as proof the jays were close.  I was just pointing out that that was more fluke.  jays were below .500 vs the rest of the league. 

    what’s the point in dealing with possibilities? oakland could make the playoffs too. do you think their fans are deluding themselves?

  26. Rasmus has the tools but he cant even speak fast or even pretend to care about anything at least that’s what it looks like.
    Wont work on his swing without his father, has the worst charisma ever it will be interesting if Lawrie can even pump this douche up.

  27. JPR inherited a system with stars-in-waiting: Halladay, Wells, and Rios.

    AA inherited a system with nothing. He’s added: Lawrie…and Bautista became awesome and Romero became very good.

    The lesson here is: middling FAs will produce middling results, more fan ire, and ultimately: dimissal.

    AA should just ‘stand Pat’ this offseason, and the next…and maybe the next…

    so far, trading away the team’s best player the previous year has been working out for him – increasing attendence last year! touted farm system!

    for those keeping score: Bautista was last year’s best player, so he should watch out, if AA sticks to the pattern he’s established. last year he actually traded their 2 best players.

    i know building takes time, but i just don’t see who in the system is going to come up and fix their problems at 1b now or in the next 3-4 years. i do see that prince fielder is on the open market, with no one else really all that geared up to bid on him….

  28. Agree 100%

  29. the big difference is that texas already had a solid rotation and didn’t need darvish.  the jays desperately needed him and yet were outbid.  the value to the jays should have been much higher than the value to the rangers.

  30. I dunno. You could be right – I’m sure some agree with you!

    I just think it’s far, far too premature to write off 2012.

    Would love it if the signed Prince.  Love it.  Don’t think it’s going to happen.  Would be great though.

  31. i don’t think he’s an interesting choice. he forces them to deal snider for nothing but a vain attempt at pretending they’re a contender next year. which they clearly are not.

    fielder won’t get 8 years because: who is going to give it to him? the cubs and jays are the only ones that have even commented, and they don’t wanna go above 5 at this point. he’ll get 6 or 7 depending on how serious the bidders are. there’s little chance he makes more than the Teixiera deal, let alone 200 million.

    the point is that 40 million dollars to some guy that won’t help 2012, and probably not 2013, is silly.
    they don’t need an aging veteran at open market price. they need their young players to become good so they can trade them for other guys that are even better. (ie. what aa has been doing).

  32. ‘toronto sports fans: being okay with mediocrity since…fuck man, i can’t be bothered to look up how long’

  33. I read today that Beltran would pursued as  mostly a DH.  I imagine E5/Lind would split first, with Snider in LF.

  34. What am I OK with?  I don’t want the team to suck.  I also don’t think the team sucks.

  35. it would be wasted money, imo.

  36. i didn’t say they suck, i said they’re mediocre.

    also i don’t mean to single you out – i’m just saying, the attitude of letting a corporation worth billions run this team as if it is the oakland a’s is offensive to me. we know that winning will allow them to make money while making us more pleased with the team. yet…they don’t want to, because they can make more money by putting an ‘okay’ team on the field.

  37. Agreed if Toronto really wanted him, they would have made a higher bid then Dice k, they would have made a higher bid then they thought he was worth to them.
    But having said that if it wouldnt cost too much in prospects I would be calling the cubs about Garza, guy is proven in the toughest divison in baseball.
    I dont like Gio or any pitcher from Oakland or San Deigo but Latos is just a sgood on the road.
    Those big ballparks, and any pitcher that has only played in the NL, scare me.
    I think Cecil would be a little better out of the AL east and perhaps way better in the NL, his fastball screams NL.

    If we cant get another starter Drabek even with the bad year has too much upside to pass on him and give Cecil the number 5 spot in the rotation. 

    Please AA season isnt over seems your trying but we need this rotation at least to even have a slight chance at the second wild card.

    Romero
    ?
    Morrow
    Alvarez
    Drabek/Cecil
    Morrow needs to be at least our 3 starter, I would think about Kurdoa on a one year deal, just to see how close we are.

  38. You think the team isn’t close, shouldn’t bother allotting resources to compete in 2012 or 2013.  Clear.  I disagree.

  39. I’ve said 100 times in this thread I think Rogers should spend more money, and I would love for them to have signed Yu and Prince.

    But just because they haven’t doesn’t mean I’m going to irrationally lower how many games I think the team is capable of winning.

  40. alvarez could be the next greg maddux.
    mcgowan could regain veolicuty and breaking pitches. morrow might be consistent and be okay out of the stretch. jpa might hit for average. people might not regress (lawrie, bautista, escobar, romero)…rasmus might be awesome.

    yes, that could happen.

    i would ask you to wager, but then i’d be in the position of actively cheering against the home team all year. i want them to do well, i’m just realistic about their (non-existent) chances as of today.

  41. I wouldnt mind Beltran on even a two year deal just to pass the rays, with a number two starter our lineup could be deadly only because the right, left all through out the lineup.
    Lineup
    SS Escobar R
    2B Johnson L
    RF Bautista R
    Lf Beltran S
    3b Lawrie R
    1B Lind     L
    Dh E5       R
    Cf Rasmus L
    C JP           R

    Saw someone make this lineup on here thought it looked pretty good.

  42. We’ll see guys.  Shitty night.  See ya!

  43. realistically, they will win between 68 and 90 games.

    i’m guessing 81.5 will be their over/under barring any more changes.

  44. Would I wager if Alvarez will be Maddux, if McGowan will make a comeback or that nobody will regress?

    No, I would not bet on that.

    But yeah – I expect Lawrie, Rasums, Santos, Johnston to be an improvement over Nix, Patterson, FF and Hill.

    Due to the youth of the team I would expect improvement on a general level, even with some regression in certain players.

    Also I imagine AA will make a trade for a starting pitcher and perhaps acquire a bat.

    So yeah – all those things together, I feel that the club will be better than in 2011.

    83 wins, 85 wins, 89 wins?  I don’t know.  Depends (particularly on what moves are still to come).  As I said before, most 2nd WC’s could have been had with around 90 wins the last few years.  Depending on what happens, I absolutely think contending for that is a reasonable goal.  Not saying it will happen, but it’s also not far fetched enough to give up on.  This isn’t the Orioles or the Astros.

    You would blow it up, I guess.  Not saying you’re wrong.  I just disagree.

  45. http://bleacherreport.com/arti

    jays – 75-1 to win the ws in 2012

    padres had better odds (70-1)…and they are rebuilding

  46. Pretty sure there will be more changes.

  47. i wouldn’t blow it up, i’d signal my belief that they have a chance to win if you add 10 wins in the offseason through fielder, a sp and santos.

    otherwise, i’d trade bautista for something like heyward/hanson or stanton or something like that.

    you keep saying aa will aquire a sp this offseason, but i have no idea who…those available are overpriced and over rated.

  48. Seriously – why do I give a shit what odds bleacher report is giving?  Why would anybody?

    If you want to look at outside opinion, find one from Law, Keri, Goldstein, Morosi, Heyman, Knobler, Gammons or Rosenthal who feel the Jays shouldn’t make moves to compete for 2012/2013, trade Baustista and start over (as you do).

    I haven’t seen that from any of them.  But yeah, Bleacher Report gives them long odds, so you win – next year is hopeless.

  49. I’m not the GM. I don’t know where he’d acquire it either.  I’m not sure he will.

    But, given that seems to be his goal, and given the prospects he has, I am assuming that it’s a reasonable possibility.

  50. OK, wait.

    So, Fielder a SP and Santos – competing.

    Beltran (or someone else), an SP and Santos – what’s the fucking point.

    ?

  51. Even though there’s nothing that Rogers could have done about any of this (it’s a blind bid and they clearly weren’t sure whether they had won or lost), Jays fans are pretty much losing their shit over this. Just listen to the radio callers last night or check any of the Jays blogs/message boards. Some are even calling for AA to be fired. The incredible anger directed towards the Jays and Rogers is unlike anything I’ve ever seen as a fan of this team. It certainly didn’t help that all this rumor/hype bullshit was built up over the last week and brought in all the casuals either.

    No, I think it’s pretty clear that this is very bad for PR. The failure to get Darvish is just another excuse for the casual fans to stay away from the ballpark. They’ll see it as more of the same lack of commitment to winning from the owners (whether that’s the real truth or not).

    With hope, the immense backlash will cause Rogers to spend the money elsewhere to appease the fans. But Rogers has never done a damn thing to appease the fans (outside of a couple of moves that Godfrey orchestrated) and I don’t expect they’ll start now.

  52. This is unreal to me

    “i wouldn’t blow it up, i’d signal my belief that they have a chance to
    win if you add 10 wins in the offseason through fielder, a sp and
    santos.

    otherwise, i’d trade bautista for something like heyward/hanson or stanton or something like that.”

    They’ve got Santos, they seem to be pursuing a starting pitcher.

    So your whole analysis of whether next year is worthless or worth going for is based on whether the Jays sign Fielder?  Him specifically.

  53. I’ve been saying since last summer’s Rasmus trade that the Jays needed to add a big bat, a decent SP, and a good 2B to contend in 2012.

     They were fortunate enough to have KJ accept arbitration which gave them their good 2B, but they’re still going to need to make at least those two upgrades in other areas to give themselves a real chance.

    Fielder and Beltran could both fit the role of a big bat addition (though obviously Fielder would be a much better bet, a huge offensive upgrade and would appease the fanbase after this PR disaster). I’m not sure if there’s anybody else available through trade who could fill the cleanup spot in the team’s order.

    The best FA pitchers available are Edwin Jackson or Roy Oswalt, both of whom could also fill the role of a #3 SP. Matt Garza might be the best overall pitcher available through trade, but he may cost quite a lot in prospects.

    Of course, it would be surprising to see Roger spend the required money to get any of these guys. Darvish’s situation may have been an unique one considering his possible economic value. I expect more trades and more prospects lost. Let’s hope that one of them isn’t for the overrated Gio.

  54. Well fuck me gently with a burning torch.

    You know, its not just that we didnt get Darvish, it hurts more that Rogers dropped half a billion on circle jerk MLSE and cant show loyal Jays fans that they care just as much about the team.

    Fuck these putrid pencil sharpening fucks at Rogers, because Jays fans will revolt. And Im starting a hate bandwagon as King of  the Go-Fuck-Yourself-Movement of Rogers douchiness. And we thought the Evil Empire was bad, fuck at least they try to field a team.

    I have been watching these guys since 1983, and this is what they do to my loyalty? “Ohh, but we were so close to Latos, ohhh, but we were so close to Darvish”

    Fuck right off and have a nice day!!

  55. This hurts…. a lot. The Blue Jays really fucked up with this PR fiasco. They really should have done a better job with managing expectations. Not even bidding 52 if they were gonna go in, is a hard way to go. Rogers just sucks. A lot. For all you that say Rogers doesn’t suck… I mean really? really?What team were you following for the last 2 decades???? Followed the team since ’86 through thick and thin, and getting tired of the whole next year, next year crap. My message to AA/Beeston is gonna be, I’ll come back to watch the team when they are good instead of loyally following them from here on in. I hate being a Toronto fan. 

  56. James, you just don’t understand baseball like these guys do…

    You see, the Jays as they currently stand are the worst team in the toughest division and if you think that their young roster with controllable players has a shot at anything then you are a ‘retard’ or ‘moron.’

    However, if the Jays had won the Darvish roulette wheel spin and sign Prince Fielder then we would be awesome and could easily beat the Yankees and Red Sox and we would be awesome and since Rogers would be spending money it would prove they are not ‘cheap’ owners and that AA isn’t a dip shit because he makes smart, prudent moves with both the present and future in mind. We need to win NOW NOW NOW.

    I mean, come on! Open your eyes! There is no room for intelligent, insightful management that makes your team a pleasure to watch and be proud of here in Toronto. Spend, spend, spend! Rogers are cheap fucks! Having what could turn out to be one of the best dark horse line ups in baseball is no fun and makes me sad. Boo hoo. Rogers are cheap.

  57. fuck you, you work for rogers

  58. ZiPS is similarly pessimistic.

  59. he won’t because he can’t. end of story.

  60. oh shut the fuck up, we’re not getting fielder either you fool. why bother? WE HAVE WHAT COULD BE THE WORST ROTATION IN THE LEAGUE.

  61. beltran’s been healthy one out of the lasty 3 years…conveniently a contract year.

    he’s 35. he costs the same as bautista, and all he’s supposed to do is dh? also, the rotation is still awful.

  62. i don’t care about 2012, when the jays have basically no chance to do anything. i care about 2014 and beyond.

  63. rogers ARE cheap fucks, who cares what texas does? this is my team and we’re run by the worst owner in sports. they are worth billions and we’re going to have a bottom 10 payroll AGAIN. there is no way in fuck we get out of 4th place this year because rogers just isn’t trying that hard and doesn’t care about the fans at all.

    you can suck rogers dick every day if you want, but if we were actually trying to win this “rebuilding” shit would have been scrapped years ago.

  64. suck my dick

  65. we weren’t in on this either, AA is just jerking off to rogers porn somewhere.

    i wonder what it would be like to follow a real team.

  66. because there is no $45M, there is no more money for this team, at best we gut the farm system for someone half as good as darvish.

    even if yu turns out to be a bust, this is still one of the worst days in jays history: when rogers said definitevly: fuck you blue jays fans.

    do you know how much interest this team is going to have come june? fucking nothing, 15,000 games and snoring all the way through. Cecil is our motherfucking 3rd starter.

  67. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SIGN FIELDER YOU FUCKING IDIOTS, GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS: THERE IS NO MONEY FOR THIS TEAM.

  68. I’m not even sure how taking this risk makes sense for Texas. Why not just re-sign the guy (Wilson) that has been a great pitcher in your league and your ballpark for less money?

  69. beltran> what the fuck? no way in shti we pay 1 or 2 years for someone to replace AA’s precious “controllable” shitty young players like Snider, Thames and Rasmus.

    Just suck it up, the off-season is over because our team owners refuse to try and win because it’s not cost effective.

  70. we won’t be within 10 games of the wild card in sept.2012 or sept.2013 or spet.2014 as long as rogers is the owner of this team.

  71. Here’s the best solution to the problem:
    BRING BACK J.P. RICCIARDI!!!

    Screw AA and his top ranked farm system! Screw all of his acquisitions of high-ceilinged young players! Screw it all!
    We need a GM who is more concerned about keeping his job, talking to the media and looking smart than a GM who’s methodically built a roster that is closer to contention than any of J.P.’s ever were in any year of his stewardship.

    We’re not in a perpetual rebuild, people. This current Jays regime had to build a contender and undo mistakes by the last regime simultaneously.

    For longtime Jays fans this coming year is going to feel like 1982 or 1983. Those are the years just before 11 years of year-in and year-out contention because we had a strong core of young players.

  72. yo guys are mental. we won’t spend money on THE BEST JAPANESE PITCHER IN HISTORY when he’s 26, but we’re going to give $12M+ per year to fucking Beltran, who is in his late 30s and gets hurt every year?

    one final time: WE ARE NOT GOING TO SIGN ANYONE!

  73. These are the same fans who were pissed when Halladay was traded. What they fail to comprehend is circumstance. With Halladay, most people fail to remember that he wanted out. He was not going to sign an extension. It was a lost cause. AA made a pretty dire situation palatable. 

    What people are failing to see with Darvish is exactly what you’ve pointed out: it was a blind bid and that process has really stung because the fan base blew everything out of proportion. This had nothing to do with the Blue Jays front office. For all they knew, they had won with a bid of 51.5999999 million or whatever. Everyone knew the truth at the same moment.
    At the end of the day, does the casual fan really give a fuck? In a week, people will have moved on to the next thing. The average Torontonian sports fan just repeats what the guy before him said or what they heard on the radio.

    I know a lot of Jays ‘fans’ and when I am back in Toronto (I’ve lived in the UK for 7 years) I am astonished at how little they actually know about baseball as a whole. I have British friends who know more about baseball. All the average Toronto sports fan cares about is what is put in front of them. Sure, right now they think they want Darvish in front of them but will it hurt the Jays in the long run? Of course not.

  74. are you fucking serious?

  75. Sucks to lose out on Darvish.  He could have upped the rebuild pace by a year, through adding major league talent without losing any resources from the farm.

    I can’t get angry at the Jays, though.  All indications out of Texas were that they were bidding  in the low 40s until yesterday, and if you knew that there’s no reason to repeat a Boston and bid $15 million more than anyone else.  Props to Texas for out-witting our front office.  Hopefully we’ll get you next time.

    Meanwhile, this sets back the Jays rebuild.  I don’t think the Jays can contend next year any longer, without sacrificing sustainable success in the future; and as such, I’m now against any short-sighted win-now trades and ready for next season to be the last season of our rebuild, looking to contend in 2013.

    The farm is almost there.  It’s so close we can all almost taste it; and yet, much of the crop will not be ready in this upcoming season.  To reap the full benefits, we really need to wait one more season.

  76. Honestly fucking disgusted with a lot of the fucking “fans” acting the way they are. I hate to be the wet towel here… but it’s one fucking player. Get over it you babies*, move on.

    *not all of you, just the ones bitching about Rogers not spending and bitching about almost anything else. Most of y’all are good people…

  77. I don’t know, when I see comments saying that “the Jays will never be able to sign a UFA”, I see knowledgeable fans. 

  78. Why will the Jays never be able to sign a free agent? Sure, we should sign Fielder. Instant upgrade but there are several other options out there via trade. At the end of day, the silence sucks but everything AA does comes out of nowhere. The Jays are working from lists of players that we don’t even know are available. I will eat my hat if the starting lineup and pitching rotation is not improved upon come opening day.

  79. The problem is that we don’t know what AA valued him at.  Even if he bid 51.6m, you’ll likely NEVER find out, because at the end of the day, they were outbid in a blind auction.

    You already saw a bust winner go over the top with Dice-K (didn’t Boston go overkill on that posting fee at the time?), so you while it might be in line with that number because of quality of player, you just don’t want to risk getting stupid about it and bidding 60+m to blow everyone out of the water, because then you look REALLY stupid if it goes south 2 years later and the guy falls apart.

  80. Stoeten brilliant title for the article!!

  81. Isabella! You used ‘cunt’. That makes me love you like you wouldn’t believe. Marry me. We’ll have Greek food, sushi and Texas bbq at the reception.

  82. Then stop talking to Toronto baseball fans jackass, say in England hope you like cricket douche bag.

  83. AA maybe didnt bid at all who knows.

  84. the problem i have with this is that dice-k set the market at 51.1. if you are really going for a player, you have to find where they set the market, then go up. that’s what the rangers did. the jays didn’t, so i have no idea how they thought they were going to win a blind bid against someone else who wanted the player. it would be one thing if the rangers bid 55m or something, but going a measly .5m up from where the market was set, wasn’t exactly setting the world on fire.

  85. it’s ok, from a team point of view, who needs a guy and his entourage going everywhere. it blows the team vibe.

  86. Nice.

  87. No. I was referring to the term UFA in a previous comment by somewhat else. It’s a hockey term. I was mocking them. Not you. I was agreeing with you. 

  88. What a bunch of knee-jerk spastics. Move on. Or get to a leafs forum and talk about burky and reimsy and head shots.

  89. Cricket is a great sport. Another thing Rogers gave me and then ripped away. 

  90. Oh well. We’re the best 4th place team in baseball, and no one can take that away from us! All this excitement had me forgetting our place for a little while there. Maybe 2013 will be the year where we can climb back into third!!!!!!

  91. super pumped to build towards the future again next year! woooohooo

    we have several promising prospects in our minor league system – awesome!!

    really excited to be ‘patient’! but also super understanding that it’s difficult to compete in the AL East

    also, very much looking forward to knowing the money is there ‘if there is a case for it’

  92. I hate to tell you but we do call people ‘cunts’ when we think they deserve it.  And Evan Grant wasn’t the only See You Next Tuesday around here last night.

  93. At least we know how Al Gore feels. This thing was basically called for the Blue Jays.

  94. We have the richest ownership in MLB.  The team is 27th in team salary.  They will spend when the time is right.  They will spend when attendance increases.  Fuck that shit.

    Some of the best ballplayers were available  this offseason.  AA could have acquired for cash money. This will NEVER happen.  AA likes young, high upside, controllable (CHEAP) players.   There will be no aquisitions of premium free agents.  So don’t wonder what the lineup would look like with Prince Fielder or Joey Votto.

    Everybody knew that Darvish would command more money in posting than Dice K.  If you’re serious you bid between $52-55 mil.  The Blue Jays were not serious about signing Darvish so they bid under $51 mil.  The sad thing is they wanted to create the illusion that they were willing to spend money.  They were probably sweating bullets and praying theirs wasn’t the highest bid.

    As a Blue Jays fan we have the opportunity to visit the Rogers Centre and watch the best baseball players in the world.  Those players will mostly have visiting jerseys on their backs. Do not expect the team to contend.  They are in the AL East and you cannot compete with the Yankees and Red Sox  with young, high upside controllable players.  However, we can watch MLB in our backyard unlike places like Ottawa and Montreal.

  95. Holy sheeeet…what a bunch of crybabies.  

  96. I’m very surprised the winning bid was as low as it was. I would have thought anybody serious about acquiring Darvish would start at Dice-K’s 51.1 as the baseline and work up from there. Deserved or not, that had to be the expectation. The fact that Texas won with a bid only 600k over shocks me. It means the Jays likely bid under 51.1 which, if true, I can’t believe they thought they had a chance.

    The thought of Darvish joining the club was insanely exciting. I’ll continue to watch the games of course but I feel a little less good about my team today than I did yesterday when I thought we were in the midst of major ‘organizational shift’.

  97. this hasn’t proven to you that it’s not there?

    I am so confused by people who eat what they’re fed for their entire lives. Isn’t there a time and place to say: fuck that!? The jays have been truly dreadful since 1994, with not only no playoff appearances, but also no pennant races. The team has not improved at all through this off-season so far and now getting a SP in a trade is going to be doubly hard because everyone knows we’re desperate. (you better be desperate with Morrow-Alvarez-Cecil-McGowan in your rotation, because that is going to get very ugly very fast.)

    it’s easy for people to criticize other people for not being “real” fans because of anger. I would challenge all you “real” fans to look at the history of the Jays for the last 20 years and see how beaten down people in this city really are–when people who obsess about baseball enough to go on a baseball blog all the time and yet they are contented with “slow progress” “prospects on the way” “controllable assets” and other euphemisms for mediocrity, I think something is really broken in the fandom of your team.

    I’m sure we will trade for some sort of 3rd or 4th starter, and give up 2 or 3 of our top twenty prospects, but the question is this: why have expectations of our owner and team dropped so low that this is a reasonable solution? why CAN’T a billion dollar company GET Darvish not just pretend to make a competitive offer?

  98. We don’t know what the offer was.  I think there’s a very good chance that AA thought he had Darvish until very shortly before the announcement.  The fan base was going wild, and if he knew he’d made a low bid I think he would have said something to depress the fans’ wild expectations.  However I do have faith that AA has a plan B because he always seems to have something in his back pocket.  And I guess that we’ll find that out sooner or later.  Probably after the New Year.

  99.  The offer could have been fifty bucks or $50mm. They can handle this backlash beautifully by scanning and releasing a copy of the exact paperwork they forwarded for the bid. Fans think they’re full of shit.

  100. Jitterbug

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