Update: Welp. That was fun while it lasted. Kinda. As the hilarious @funtimeinternet points out, if you Google the Twitter handle of the guy who originated the rumour, you find that yesterday he was “NHL Insider.” So, nothing to see here.

Well, nothing but some loser who gets a kick out of posting fake reports on the internet– meaning him, that is, not me. Although…

It’s crazily irresponsible of me to even suggest this might be real, but Twitterer @Beannation suggested I check out the conversation between @Ken_Rosenthal and someone called @tmfb82, with 8 followers (and rising), who claims to be a Rogers Centre employee who is hearing rumblings of the Jays making a deal with the Mariners.

It’s… it sure is something…

Guy claims that his source has left the office, and that the Jays and Mariners are going to meet tomorrow morning amongst themselves and discuss whether the Jays will send Kyle Drabek, Travis Snider, Henderson Alvarez, Anthony Gose and JP Arencibia to Seattle for “Feliz and Jaso,” which presumably means Felix.

Rosenthal, for what it’s worth, says he completely believes the suggestion that Alex Anthopoulos has been obsessed with getting an ace, and he is looking into the rumor.

Again, this is just what some random Twitter person, with what appears to be an hours-old account, is saying, and there’s absolutely no reason to believe that he has any knowledge of anything.

Still… kinda fun, huh?

So… there’s that.

Comments (116)

  1. The deal the guy is speculating about it is: 

    Felix Hernandez and John Jaso for Kyle Drabek, Travis Snider, Anthony Gose, JP Arencibia and Henderson Alvarez

    I’d have to imagine it’s all bull, but hey, a good rumour is always fun.

  2. holy shit

  3. Drabek Snider Gose Alvarez Arencibia for Felix. Let’s do it. I’m all in.

  4. Snider, Drabek, Gose, Arencibia, Alvarez for Felix? WAY TOO MUCH.

  5. Uhh…yeaaah. 

  6. Oh for fuck’s sake. Not this again.

    Can we at least delve into why Walter Beede called out AA and/or Dr. Andrews on Twitter if we’re dealing in random Twitterings?

    “Dr Andrews is just a Highered gun…Just ask AA!”

  7. Wow, talk about selling the farm. Then watch Felix require TJ after three months. AA loses his Ninja status if a deal goes down like this.

  8. Oh my yes please.

  9. I would do it but im a bit skeptical about a guy making a twitter account just to pass this on.

  10. When is the press conference scheduled? 9:30pm?

  11. Brandon League for a bag of balls or Danny Farquar aka Farmhand, proving that AA can sell you magic beans.

  12. If that crap is true, D’Arnaud better be ready for the big league right now. I might just go fucking nuts watching Jaso and Mathis shit up the catcher position. 

    I’d also hate to see Alvarez go.

  13. Well, technically only one of those guys is a prospect (Gose), so the Jays would probably still keep the “best farm system” status.

  14. it’s just been moved to 10

  15. no wait 11

  16. That was my thought too. The rest of them I can live with trading for Felix easily, but Alvarez, that would hurt a bit.

  17. Good point (re: Walter Beede Twitter account).

  18. As much as I’d love this to be true…there are just too many of these bullshitters (Insidethejays, Farrellball, hell, even Kevin Gray) on twitter to take it seriously.

    Very strange to see that Kenny would even respond to him. I’m sure he gets tons of these fake things tweeted to him every day.

  19. KEVIN GRAY’S SOURCE IS CONFIRMING!!!!!!111

  20. They disagreed on the health of Beede’s shoulder, reportedly. I think Keith Law mentioned that in a chat somewhere way back. I suspect the Beedes figure the Jays were using Andrews to drive the price down and call Tyler damaged goods.

  21. I’m sorry, why does this bullshit warrant a post?

  22.  Ask this guy about the press conference. He seems to have all the “inside” info.
    http://graymatter123.blogspot….

  23. What does @insidethejays say about this?

  24. Paolo Lives!!!!

  25. & Farrellball!

  26. It really would be nice to have an ace but damn that’s a lot to give up, Felix is not Doc and this is a shit load more.

  27. Hey, I’ve just joined twitter. First thing I’m going to do is mention a colossal trade to Ken Rosenthal that I’ve secretly heard about. Also I’m going to spell rumour without a U even though my name is OhhhCanada.

    I’m going to guess this is Kenny Ken Ken drumming up more interest.

  28. AA’s motto should be: If you hear it, then it’s false

  29. DJF wants the exposure Gray got with his bullshit :D
    Kinda embarrassing really.

  30. I have a boner

  31. does he mean “higher education” or “hired”?

  32. I read that in Law’s chat, but that’s all the info we had until Beede opened his mouth on Twitter. The fact that he subsequently deleted the tweet tells me there’s a big juicy story under the surface here just waiting to get out. You probably have it right, that the Jays raised concerns about Tyler’s health and Walter feels Dr. Andrew is a corporate shill, but there was more than one way to read his tweet.

  33. That’s a lot to give up. Gose is going to be a superstar.

  34. it’s not as if Beede was a consensus top10 even if healthy, though. the jays were prepared to go way over slot, and if reports that they were over 2million on him are accurate, i’m guessing it’s just sour grapes based on how badly tyler is being lit up.

  35. I’m going to give you my twitter account and post random stuff, just to get the attention from you I deserve.
    Can we at least be facebook friends?

    For real though,keep this stuff coming.Stimulates the conversation.

  36. Stoeten retweeted it already, but: Google the twitter handle, “tmfb82″. That should let the air out of the baloon nicely.

  37. It read like he meant hired, but it was unclear if Dr. Andrews was a hired gun by the Jays or the Beede side.

  38. I suspect the Beedes figure the Jays were using Andrews to drive the price down and call Tyler damaged goods.

    This is exactly what I took the Dec. 23rd Tweet to mean. I do not believe that Law or any other journalist mentioned Dr. Andrews name at all in any report/tweet though (as NorthYorkJays is also saying).

  39. Please be sure to check out the update at the top of the post, in case you’re still taking this seriously– which, as I pointed out in the first place, you shouldn’t have been.

  40. Right. Law just said they two sides (Jays and Beedes) disagreed on the health of his shoulder.

  41. Ahhh, it was fun while it lasted.

    Now about that facebook thing?

  42. Well, that was over before it started. Still weird that of all the tweets Rosenthal gets, he chose to respond to this one.

  43. Given that he’s probably the most famous specialist doctor I can think of, I’m not really sure why he’d give out false information…or that the cost of bribing him would be less than the cost to sign Beede.

  44. It’s the power of the cone of silence.

  45. People stop commenting like the deal is done! Now time to make a rumor about the raptors trading Andrea for Blake 

  46. Yip. I do believe that was actually Walter Beede’s personal account though. He had posted a snarky Tweet sometime after the draft about the “side deals” thing alluding to Keith Law if i’m recalling correctly. I alerted KLaw about it via Twitter and he replied as though he wasn’t aware.

  47. I love the premise of how it was going down.

    “Well boys, now that we have the details ironed out and agreed on the names with Seattle, let’s all sleep on it and regroup at 10 AM tomorrow to see if we really  want to do it.  LaCava, you bring the donuts.  Beest, make sure Nadir is on board with paying the salary.  Have a good night fellas!”

    ….also, the source “has left the office”?  I guess the likelihood a Rogers employee wouldn’t be carrying a fucking mobile phone of some kind is pretty strong, eh?

    Why would Kenny Ken Ken even respond to this guy’s tweet and then carry on a convo?

  48. Because I’ve still got two months to dissect the position battle between Aaron Laffey and Jerry Gil?

  49. hey Stoeten – am not much of a poster type, but i visit DJF often.   Any talk of trading Gose makes me nervous as hell.  Have the Jays ever had a 21 year old at AA with the kind of speed and power numbers Gose posted at New Hampshire last season?

    Thanks

  50. Even though it’s been proven untrue it’s still fun to wish. Although I do find it funny that people can talk themselves out of almost any player for the sake of prospects. Even one of the best pitchers in baseball. Cue the “He’s not worth it” comments.

  51. Yes, Andrews wouldn’t be the one whom would be flaming away off his hinges. It would be that of yet another highly involved father in their athletic sons business dealings.

  52. Because in the twitter age,everything MIGHT have some validity,until unproven.

    See Darvish rumours.

  53. I’m gonna guess it was because guy @replied him like 20 times.

  54. Post shirtless picks of both, create a poll and let the board help you make such a life altering decision.

  55. I always thought that the Yankees would throw a pile of prospects at the Mariners for King Felix and that AA would swoop in and swap Travis Snider for Jesus Montero.

    If something like the crap mentioned above were to happen the only player that I would NOT like to see go is Alvarez.  Felix would be a perfect mentor for Alvarez this year so give them Cecil instead.

  56. It’s an interesting hypothetical. All those players for one pitcher. Something like that could end up reminiscent of the Bartlo Colon trade between the Expos and the Indians.

  57. There’s been quite a few.I’m sure somebody will come up with a list.
    If not I’ll do one.

  58. How come no one is suggesting the opposite here. It sounds more like the Beedes got Andrews’ positive assessment on the shoulder (presumably/possibly differing from the Jays’ assessment), and AA said Andrews was a hired gun as the Beedes were using him to refute the Jays’ stance and get a larger contract. Who knows?

  59. Vernon Wells and Alex Rios come to mind.

    I’d trade Gose before Marisnick, based on what I know about the two.

  60. If the part about AA wanting an ace is true then its going to hurt but no one on that list ( don’t know about gose) has the potential of Felix They don’t call him King because he can sing.  You can’t consistently compete in the AL east without a true #1 ( ricky would be an awesome #2).  Get an ace and fielder or wait on the prospects. Oh the drama of it all. 

  61. Alverez has #3 potential maybe,  we got lots of those he can go for the right price

  62. I don’t see why people are shitting on Rosenthal on twitter for responding to this guy..

    I actually think that’s pretty cool that he’s willing to check into a weird little rumour like this.  He’s thorough. 

  63. dude his potential is alot higher than that.

  64. tmfb82 keeps stating that he’s not trying to get followers on twitter based on his rumors. He’s probably trying to save face…but what “if”…and that’s a BIG “IF”….he’s actually telling the truth. Just b/c he was once NHL Insider on Twitter doesn’t necessarily mean he also does not work at Rogers Center and that he also does not have a friend who works somewhat close to the front office.

    For all we know he’s telling the truth about his friend knowing the Well’s deal ahead of time. His “friend” could possibly know something that we don’t on this as well.

    That said…I think it’s a lot to give up. Personally I think JPA is going to rake next year like he did in his second year at AAA. I think Drabek, Gose and Snider and a prospect would be fine. I’m sure the Mariners would want Alvarez as he’s the closest to being big league ready…but it would be tough to swallow as he looked good last year. It would be easier to swallow if we knew how Hutchinson and McGuire could do next year at the back of the rotation. And if we also knew if Cecil can turn things around and McGowan can stay healthy….

    I’ll guess we’ll see….

  65. I think you’re just wishfully thinking, but, ya never know.

  66. Sorry but I have to call minor bullshit on Stoeten for this. Per his Twitter, this rumor is apparently fit to print by virtue of the fact that Rosenthal had a (very innocuous) conversation with said NHL-loving dude. Implied logic is that an eight follower Twitter account isn’t fit to print UNLESS that eight follower stream crosses with Kenny Ken Ken’s, or any other MSM journo, in which case, hey, it’s ‘news’. Feel like there’s a bit of doublethink at play there w/r/t blog vs. mainstream ethics/ideals/credibility, especially when 90% of the time, DJF and cohorts seem to be (rightfully) fighting against the MSM notion that blogosphere isn’t credible/responsible/authoritative etc.

    OF COURSE I know it’s just the Internet and rumors are fun and January is dead and the Internet is looser and it’s cool to think about this stuff; it’s the basis for the justification of what merits a post and what doesn’t that I think is inherently dangerous and doublethinky and something that it would serve DJF well to have some sort of internal logic or think about, otherwise it looks a bit like you’re trying to have (and also eat) your cake. 

    Finally, the fact that some people might be minorly upset about this meriting a post is ultimately indicative of positive things — audience growing, credibility etc — but with great power, etc. I do think there needs to be some sort of benchmark in place to to determine what sort of rumor merits a post and what doesn’t, otherwise it’s a slippery slope.

  67. I’m not saying I want the trade to be true. I actually think it’s way too much to offer for Felix. I’m just saying maybe the rumor shouldn’t be dismissed until we hear tomorrow officially that it’s not true.

  68. I know but… Alvarez talked last year about how thrilled he was to meet Felix and how Felix was his idol and how in a short conversation he learned a lot about pitching. Always thought that it would be nice if they ended up on the same team.

    Obviously the rumor is probably crap but it isn’t total crap. By this I mean that  AA has a tendency to do exactly what it is that he said that he was going to do. If he has stated that he wants to add a front end starter and is going to use the trade market and that he is assembling ‘core’ players so he will either move prospects or non-core players then something like makes sense.

    The point is that there are very few front-end pitchers in baseball and even fewer available.  How many teams have bona fide aces that they might be willing to move for a pile of prospects? It is probably a short list but it is also a list that includes Hernandez.

    Of the players mentioned on the list I wouldn’t consider any of them ‘core’ players. Obviously the Jays can lose a left fielder or two. They have Marisnick instead of Gose. A pile of catchers coming up through the system.  Drabek might be a ‘sell’ just in case he proves beyond all doubt this year that he can’t find the strike zone. I suppose Jaso might be a one-year stop gap until D’Arnoud comes up. It just feels like the kind of thing AA wants (an ace) and the way he will do it (trade  using  prospects and non-core players),

  69. His potential on most lists is a middle of the rotation starter, Law thinks that and minorleagueball stated that too. They all stated he has stuff but doesn’t miss enough bats. However he took a huge jump this year so you never know…

  70. The difference is that Alvarez was being asked to be the number 3 in the rotation (Behind Romero and Morrow ahead of Cecil),  whereas if he is dealt and this goes through that would  mean that the Jays would be asking McGuire/Hutchinson to be the 4 or 5 guy, (behind the King, Romero, Morrow and maybe Cecil). It would take a lot of pressure off of them that Alvarez would have had to deal with.

  71. and if Felix continues pitching as we expect, AA looks like a genius. again

  72. AA could make it happen… He should take over for Colangelo too

  73. Wow… Kenny Ken Ken really should have direct messaged the guy so we couldn’t see him looking like a complete goof chasing this “rumour”

  74. Jays are continuing their pursuit of Gavin Floyd according to FarrellBall… Seems plausible unlike this fucking nonsense above that Stoeten felt the need to post.

    “Gotta STAY PRO, TOO PRO”

  75. Thanks, but… get a grip.

  76. I love rumours.  Make the off-season some what fun until spring training starts.

    Lets just imagine this was true.  I’d love the deal, but would like to not include Alvarez but substitute someone else in for him.  Alvarez apparently looks up to Felix, and Felix and him talked a lot when Alvarez started in Seattle and Felix gave him some pointers

  77. Travis Snider is from Washington so he is a ‘local boy’ and has extra value to Seattle.

    Gose is a high-level prospect with lots of buzz but worth less to the Jays than others because of Rasmus and Marisnick.

    Drabek’s prospect value will disappear if he pitches like he did last season. Hard to trust players with great arms and bad brains (i.e. A.J. Burnett).

    The closer D’Arnoud gets to being ready the lower the value of JPA to the Jays. For teams that don’t have 3 or 4 quality catching prospects coming up through the sytem JPA probably has major value.

    I am not arguing that the rumor is true but I am arguing that these are the kind of names that AA might move and King Felix is the kind of pitcher that would make sense.

    Goodness… might help me forget the whole Darvish thing.

  78. Why — because I think what you’re doing generally is actually kind of important?

  79. I am not going to say that I think this is a legit trade but it does make a lot of sense for both sides:
    Arrencibia-Seattle needs a young catcher of the future and the Jays have depth (D’anaurd, Jimenez etc)
    Gose- Seattle needs a top tier replacement for Guitirez for when the team can compete again (Texas and Angels regress) Gose is a lefty bat which is ideal for any hitter in Safeco. Jays have Thames, Rasmus and Bautista, with Marsinik Smith Jr and Anderson coming up the system.
    Alvarez- Seattle needs a starting pitcher with upside to help fill out the rotation. Pineda Walker both have ace potential whereas Hultzen and Paxton could be 2/3 starters next year or the year after.
     Snider- Again a lefty bat that plays well in the ball park, and upgrades the young talent pool in Seattle for when they compete
    Drabek- a number 2/3 starter that could be used as a further trade chip or if he pieces it together to be in the rotation in the next 2 years. Could replace one bust arm or could just outperform one of them.

    Hernandez- Younger then Romero and Morrow, still has upside and a track record. Jays need an ace he would be the best one any team could hope for. This would decrease the pressure on future prospects (protecting them from having to develop into top of the rotation guys and settle into the back end). He would then give the Jays a chance to beat the Red Sox and Yanks on a more consistent basis and compete with the Rays rotation.

    Jaso- High on base percentage, a nice stop gap to prevent Mathis from getting at bats until D’anaurd is ready. Not great D but his bat is much better then Mathis’

  80. This is a fair and valid point. Still, though. I guess I woudn’t have minded if it was less a post about “check out this rumor” and more “this thing is bullshit, but let’s talk about if we would or wouldn’t like this deal.”

  81. Trade makes no sense from the jays stand point.. they add felix, which is awesome..  Felix is a 6 WAR pitcher.

    However they lose off their roster, Alvarez & Arencibia.  Last year Alvarez was 1.0 WAR in 10 starts, and Arenciba was a 1.5 WAR in 486 PA.. you have to figure that the 2 of them combined could come close to 6 WAR, especially if arencibia improves with the bat..

    that would be 6 WAR for under a million bucks, as opposed to 20 million. Granted in 2 spots vs 1. . However the 2012 team isn’t any better..
    So the only way this deal makes sense is if they add another pitcher and bat.. because swapping alvarez for felix and losing arencibia, doesn’t make the 2012 team any better.

    but i’m sure its all bull anyways.

  82. Felix is only signed til 2014!…something to keep in mind…but he is awesome

  83. Kinda.

    Thanks, though.

  84. I think it’s a huge stretch to assume Alvarez and Arencibia combine for 6 WAR in 2012 and 2013.  Maybe at their peaks, but Arencibia would require significant improvement to become a 3-WAR player and I’m doubt he will ever get there.   And if you give Alvarez 30 starts, he is a 3-WAR guy at the numbers he put up last year. 

  85. Good point, but I would compare it more (for 2012) as:
    Hernandez= 6 WAR Jaso 1 WAR to Alvarez 2.5 WAR and Arrencibia 2 WAR. So I think it would be more 7-4.5. 

    However it is speculation and doesn’t take into account what Snider and Drabek would do for Seattle in the current year as well. 

    I think if you are the Jays you make this trade. If you are Seattle you ask to exchange JP with D’anaurd.

  86. “maybe the rumor shouldn’t be dismissed until we hear tomorrow officially that it’s not true.”

    Well it would have to be someone in the Mariners organization because AA wouldnt bother commenting on crap like this.

  87. Ha!  JPA gets in on the action:

    Just in: Bluejays bat boy will be traded for Hot dog vendors and a beer man! #AnyoneCanStartARumor #ThisOneIsRealThough #CleanItUp

  88. “Felix is only signed til 2014″ Baseball ref is showing he’s an FA in 2015. That would mean the Jays would have 3 years of control over him…..AA would be giving up a lot for only 3 years, but .., naaaaaw!!!

  89. True, it would take pressure off of Alvarez. But to have to give up Drabek and Gose….and to also throw in Snider and JPA seems a tad too much.

  90. Not that I wouldn’t do this trade, but I was surprised to see that Felix is due $19m in 2012, $20m in 2013 and another $20m in 2014. He’s controllable but he ain’t cheap. 

  91. Did we learn nothing from the Darvish stuff.  Kevin Gray, InsideJays, etc.  This is certainly BS.

  92. I agree that it is a lot to give up. However you have to look at the context of this trade. Felix is both better and younger then Gio Gonzalez, there is no question about it. Gio has 2 advantages 1) he is cheaper, 2) there is control for 4 years. I do think 3 years of Felix (an ace) is much more valuable then 4 years of Gio (#3 starter maybe #2 if he decreases his walks considerably this year)

    To get Gio it cost there 3rd, 4th, and 9th ranked prospect (high upside power arm, back of the rotation starter and a starting catcher, and threw in a bullpen arm) a steep price. 

    The Jays would deal Drabek and Alvarez from surplus (they have 5 other really good pitching prospects coming up) so I think these two would help Seattle a lot more then it would hurt Toronto

    Snider and Gose- Snider has the pedigree but has never performed at the highest level. I still think he will turn it around but if he does will it really hurt the Jays? a platoon of Thames and Fransisco would be able to cover his production in my opinion (25HR OBP 350) which I think is Sniders upside. Gose is the one player in this deal that would affect the Jays. If Rasmus does not pan out he could be BJ Upton in CF (with less power but more walks). He would be a true loss. But he has not shown he can hit for average at any point of his career. However Marsinik is probably only 2 years away and can help make up for the loss of Gose.

    JP- He was bound to become the back up C once D’anaurd arrived anyways, as his D is horrible and so is his OBP. He has upside but I think the Jays feel like he is movable with D’anaurd so close.

    Hernandez IS and ace, we know that. Those guys may become aces/all stars, but that is a big IF. This would improve the Jays biggest weakness without significantly hindering any other position in the future.

  93. pure nonsense

    hope its true though

  94. Id be very interested in seeing some comparisons.  Just doing some random checking at baseball reference, I cant find anyone that’s had the speed and power combo at AA at 21.  True, Rios and Wells were in AAA by 21 – but these are arguably the two biggest prospects in franchise history.  16 dingers and 70 swipes with .350 OB% in AA at 21 is pretty mouth watering stuff.  I mean we are talking about a game-changer here.

    Cheers

  95. not alvarez, not alvarez, not alvarez, not alvarez, not alvarez, not alvarez, not alvarez

  96. to elaborate…. trading for Felix is a win now move… and Alvarez is apart of win now… Same with JPA but thankfully we have a stud ready to take his place very soon… I’d rather throw in a couple of other prospects instead of Alvarez. Unless Rogers is willing to shell out for an Oswalt to bridge the gap. 

  97. Going to go out on a limb and say 2012 Travis D’Arnaud > 2012 JP Arencibia.  (I think it’s understood that this is the case beyond that.)

  98. i meant signed through 2014 my bad….i would love to have Felix but im pretty much at the point i just want to wait things out and see what these prospects become we’ve waited this long…..

  99. Next rumor will have AA last seen sailing down the Ohio River on his way to lunch in Cincinnati to lock up Votto for life.

  100. Most recently Jobermyn Chavez.He didn’t have the stolen bases,but was hyped as a 5 tool guy before he was traded.
    OPS  at Lansing,age 20 –.821  21HR
    http://www.baseball-reference….

    Gose
    http://www.baseball-reference….

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