I really feel like I owe a grand post on the Jays’ annual State of the Franchise event, which took place tonight at Rogers Centre, if not to the world, at least to the members of the club’s PR team, like Jay Stenhouse and Mal Romanin, who were kind enough to invite myself and a number of other bloggers to the affair– even if I had a sneaking suspicion that part of the appeal was the potential for some free, positive coverage of the kind that the mainstream outlets haven’t been so interested in providing lately. The club’s staff was affable, accommodating, and amazingly didn’t even toss us from the post-event media scrums with Alex Anthopoulos and Paul Beeston (though for a moment it was close, Eric), even if it meant allowing the definition of media to be blurred-enough that some of the unwashed masses were rather hilariously able to jump into the fray. Or, in the case of some video podcast nobody has ever fucking heard of, called Back In Blue, getting exclusive post-scrum interviews with the CEO and GM. Um… WTF?

Thing is, as much as I feel that an expansive post is warranted here, right now I can’t be arsed to do one– partly because, speaking of the line between media and non-media, I decided it only seemed right to firmly straddle it when a free beer was basically thrust into my hand approximately 30 seconds after arriving.

So, for now, let’s skip the gory details, the winks at Richard Griffin,the polite conversation with the delightful John Lott, the terrifying guy in a fedora staring in the direction of Drew Fairservice and I for practically the entire Q&A. Let’s get to what few nuggets Anthopoulos and Beeston offered to us, and maybe we’ll revisit the rest later.

Here’s what jumped out at me:

- In defending the club’s actions on Prince Fielder– a softball attempt to defuse the night’s biggest PR hand grenade off the hop– Paul Beeston, perhaps inadvertently threw Adam Lind under the bus, claiming that the club won’t do a deal for more than five years on anyone, but if Fielder had been available for one, for three, for five years, “we would have been there.” That’s some confidence in your current first baseman, Beest. Not that he deserves confidence, mind you, but still.

- The question above was asked by the evening’s emcee, Buck “Albert” Martinez. At one point I asked myself, would Alan Ashby have been up there happily lobbing softballs at the panel, acting as a blatant PR stooge? Something tells me no.

- At one point John Farrell referred to new reliever Darren Oliver’s “left-handed specialty.” I know he’s a giant slab-of-meat of a man, but would it kill somebody to point out to Farrell what splits are?

- A couple of times during the Q&A Alex Anthopoulos emphasised athleticism as being part of the direction the club is headed in. A subtle way to undercut the fans who are livid over Fielder, or a genuine tactic? Judging by the profiles of the kinds of prospects he’s acquired, I’ll guess the latter.

- Speaking of livid fans, there were a few, but there was nothing of the kind of foment that I expected. In fact, the first fan who had the audacity to get negative was met with considerable restlessness from the section I was seated in– but also clapping from what sounded like a majority of the crowd, once he had made his point.

- From the “getting specific without getting specific” file, Alex Anthopoulos answered a question about the Jays’ inability to sign Carlos Beltran [Note: seriously?] by pointing out that some players don’t want to play on turf, some don’t want to DH, some don’t want to change leagues. Makes total sense, and is exactly what you’d expect Beltran’s reasons for passing to have been. Y’know, if AA had acknowledged the elephant in the room and mentioned the fact that some players actually want to win, too.

- Later in the evening the GM referred to the fact that there were two players this off-season who they offered more money or more years to, but who turned them down. Given the comments above, I’d bet hard that Beltran was one. The other… I dunno… Kuroda? Madson? Broxton?

- Later still, in the post-event scrum, Paul Beeston made one of the more interesting comments of the evening, following a series of questions about installing a grass field– which he says could be done, if they don’t have any non-baseball events in the building (in other words: it ain’t happening), and he says has been under consideration for 10 years. Getting specific about the fact that some players don’t want to come here and play on turf, Beeston claims that Carl Crawford balked at the possibility. Because, y’know, he was totally coming here otherwise. (I’m not seeing this one written elsewhere, but I assure you I didn’t dream it.)

- On the other side of the player acquisition front, Anthopoulos got specifically non-specific about the trades that the club “missed out on” this winter, as some fucking buffoons would say. The club made their prospects available, he said in response to a particularly frustrated questioner, and they could have made trades, but other clubs wanted big league talent back– read: Brett Lawrie– and if they did it, “you’d be up there asking why we made the deal.”

- Speaking to that point as clearly as he possibly could, Anthopoulos pointed out that if they had traded a Brett Lawrie for a pitcher, or Henderson Alvarez “and four guys behind him,” they would have simply been filling one hole by creating another. How do fans not get this? What magical trades do they seriously think could have been made?

- One of the more interesting questions of the night came from a gentleman who said he had a bunch of young players from Venezuela playing in Niagara Falls, and that he’d tried to contact the Jays to come have a look at them, but got nowhere– meanwhile, the Texas Rangers, while the World Series was on, no less, did heed his calls, and came up and signed five of them. Anthopoulos said he was unaware of the situation and was curious himself to find out how this particular ball was dropped– if that, indeed, was the case.

- Getting more general, Paul Beeston said that MLB has been looking into spicing up interleague play by having NL rules in AL parks and vice versa, much to the delight of fans who could somehow possibly give a fuck.

- Asked about the Jays abysmal interleague record over the years– despite the entire roster being turned over– John Farrell pointed to the recent hiring of ex-catcher-of-the-future, Kevin Cash, who will do advance scouting on the Jays’ interleague opponents, which will hopefully give them an edge they didn’t have in recent years.

- Farrell also mentioned the possibility of using outfield platoons in 2012– presumably in left, presumably with one of Thames and Snider, who will have an open competition this spring for the starting job, and Ben Francisco or Rajai Davis. If it’s the latter, OK– well, apart from the fact that Snider, should he be here, deserves every at-bat he can get– but if they’re thinking platooning a lefty with Francisco, um… again, someone please feel free to tell the manager about the existence of splits.

- On the good side of the ledger, Farrell shot down the traditional notion that a speedy player needs to lead-off, saying that they should put their guys with the best ability to get on base ahead of Jose Bautista in the lineup. Bea-utiful! It’s just… um… then explain why the fuck we saw so much of Eric Thames in the two-hole last year?

- Farrell also spoke highly of prospect Drew Hutchison, and said that, especially at mid-season, he would have no reluctance to call him up to the bigs, if the need were to arise. Of course, if the need for Hutchison to come in like a white knight arises, things aren’t going so good.

- At one point a female questioner asked about the ridiculous lack of ladies merchandise that isn’t either too cute or pink or features only the cutest and most popular players. Um… awesome question. Beeston was quick to agree to just about everything on the night, but this one in particular seemed like a concern he wanted to look like he wanted to get to the bottom of.

- It didn’t make it into my notes, but at one point during the Q&A, Alex Anthopoulos referred to coming into his job and having, among other challenges, players wanting to be traded, and later he said that Roy Halladay “demanded a trade.” He said it more casually than it maybe looks in print, and I know we all know that Halladay made it clear that he wasn’t going to re-sign and all that, but have we ever heard so explicitly that a trade was “demanded”? I didn’t think so, but then again, I long ago stopped giving a shit about the franchise’s second greatest ever pitcher.

- Speaking about his methods for player acquisition, and how they might change under the new CBA, Anthopoulos said that– fucking obviously– the plan wasn’t to attempt to hoard draft picks in perpetuity, but that the way he loaded up on picks in his first three years was, in essence, a way to exploit the system.

- To that point, lastly, and perhaps most curiously, Anthopoulos said that going forward, even though it’s going to be harder to hoard picks and to get players over slot, he wants to keep building the club’s minor league core by always having a first and second round pick. Again: he always wants to have a first and second round pick. Unsaid, of course, is that to do so, he’d never be signing a free agent who’d require them to give up his pick to the team the player came from? I don’t know if that’s what he meant, but that’s what he said– fortunately for Alex is was wrapped in his typical Anthopoulspeak and not easy to catch.

Update: On the above, crossed-out last point I had to go and take a look at the new CBA, because, truth be told, I was never actually clear on how the pick forfeiting aspect of free agent compensation works. Turns out, Anthopoulos didn’t say anything of note here, because, while clubs who sign free agents that received a $12-million qualifying offer (or whatever the number that year happens to be) do forfeit their first round pick to the team the player came from (unless they pick in the top 10, in which case they give up their second-rounder), those clubs get a pick back at the end of the first (or, if applicable, second) round– essentially a sandwich pick, but one that is referred to as part of the preceding round. In other words, the fact that the Jays will always have a first- and second-rounder has nothing to do with any sort of planned unwillingness to sign high-end free agents.

Update the second: Oh beer. So delicious. So mind-fucky. Um… ya, so it turns out I misread a rather critical word in the section of the CBA pertaining to the Update above. It’s not teams who sign players that received Type-A qualifying offers who get a pick back at the end of the first round, but the teams that lose those players. In the wording of the CBA, as it appears online, it’s unclear whether this pick goes to the club who lost the player in addition to the pick forfeited by the signing club, or if the end-of-round pick is the only compensation. Either way, the team who signs such a player loses theirs, and once again the comment from Alex Anthopoulos that the Jays will always have their first- and second-round pick becomes potentially ominous. (Thanks to @fmblair for pointing out the error in the correction to the first error.)

So… there’s that.

Comments (158)

  1. To be fair, type A Free Agents in the future will not cost a team a 1st round pick.

  2. I wonder who the other player is that rejected the jays money besides beltran. If its madson it wouldnt make any sense from his perspective to reject more money. Kuroda wasn’t a fit really. Anyways, AA and Beeston are full of shit when they say players wont sign here regardless of the money. In some cases its true but players do chase money MOST of the time. Especially if its a significant difference

  3. To be frank, that last line is fucking bullshit.  There is so much that goes into it. Players switched to Boras because he actually listened to everything they wanted because they felt other reps didn’t listen about families and shit.

    Location plays a pretty big role and role and teams philosophy for direction as well.

  4. They will if you pay over a certain per year value (think its like 13M).

  5. Dave Steib was good, but nowhere near as good as Roy Halladay. He’s the greatest pitcher in this organization’s history.

  6. Look at all those hipsters, man, they love the Jays.

  7. Missed the internet show due to work. Any mention on an innings limit for McGowan? The amount of simulated games he took part in makes it impossible to approximate last years totals.

  8. Nice work, Stoeten.

    As I said to some other guys in the last post, considering how the Jays must be concerned about unmet expectations right now (after Fielder, Darvish), I’d be surprised if Beest brought up the real grass thing if it wasn’t a genuine consideration.

    I’m not sure if you’re referring to something you heard in the media scrum, but I took from his SOTF comments that natural grass would mean there could be no non baseball events during the season.  Not all year round (so – basically the Argos, who’s lease expires after this year).

    Funnily enough -  I remember a poster in here with supposed inside knowledge (famousamazingguy) brought up the possibility of real grass and renovations over the next few years a couple days ago in this thread:


    Easily may all be BS, but bit of a coincidence.  I dunno. I’m really hopeful there’s a shred of truth to this, but who the hell knows? We’ll see.

  9. Maybe he’s referring to Clemens just so he can shit on Halladay?

    What difference does it make if he demanded a trade or not? I’m glad he made his intentions clear and didn’t just walk.

  10. haha true.

    Jays fans – white nerds/hipsters
    Leaf fans – Dave matthews fan types/guidos

    No idea why it’s worked out that way.

  11. Is that actually true? I’ve been looking and haven’t yet found the source saying whether the compensation for another club signing a guy who’ve given a $12-million (or whatever the number is in that particular year) qualifying offer is a draft pick created out of nothing, or the signing-team’s pick. And I’ve been looking.

    Would have kept looking and delayed the publishing of the post if I wasn’t so lazy.

  12. I doubt it, that would be like calling Paul Molitor the greatest hitter in the organization’s history. He’s referring to Stieb (who while great was nowhere near the pitcher that Halladay was and is).

    I don’t know why anybody would want to shit on Halladay in the first place. The guy was fantastic for this organization and took several below-market deals just to stay here. We should be glad he didn’t lead the organization on like Chris Bosh did with the Raptors or refused to waive his no-trade clause like Mats Sundin did with the Leafs. He allowed the Jays to get something for him before he moved on to an actual contender. I’ll always have respect for him as a pitcher and as a person…as should everyone, really.

  13. Well, then, I guess God has spoken and the matter is closed.

  14. the name roger clemens comes to mind… Didn’t play here long, but arguably the best pitcher to put on a jays uniform.

  15. If you’re objective about it, you’d come to the same conclusion. It’s not exactly hard to look up their stats and see the huge difference there. Roy Halladay is on a completely different level in terms of pitching ability and the game’s history.

  16. Roger Clemens might be the best pitcher to put on any uniform in the history of the game. That doesn’t, by my definition, make him the greatest pitcher in team history, for the same reason that Hakeem Olajuwon isn’t the greatest player in Raptors history.

  17. Never mind, I read wrong.

    The protection actually went down from top 15 to top 10

  18. This Baseball Nation piece says, regarding the free agency compensation changes, that “
    A team that finishes in the bottom 15 in the majors cannot lose a first-round draft pick.”

    Therefore, one supposes, a team that doesn’t still will have to forfeit their pick.


  19. I didn’t see anything about this on Tebow’s twitter.

  20. If you’re objective about reading my comment, you’ll realize that I was intentionally shitting on Halladay for effect.

  21. In other words. The narrative is getting fucking old.

  22. OK, stopped being lazy on the pick forfeit stuff. From the actual CBA itself:

    Draft Pick Compensation 1. Starting in 2012, “Type A” and “Type B” free agents and the use of the Elias ranking system will be eliminated. 2. The current system of draft pick compensation will be replaced with the following system: 

    A. Only Players who have been with their Clubs for the entire season will be subject to compensation.

    B. A free agent will be subject to compensation if  his former Club offers him a guaranteed one-year contract with a salary equal to the average salary of the 125-highest paid Players from the prior season.  The offer must be made at the end of the five-day free agent “quiet period,” and the Player will have seven days to accept the offer.

    C. A Club that signs a player subject to compensation will forfeit its first round selection, unless it selects in the top 10, in which case it will forfeit its secondhighest selection in the draft. 

    D. The Player’s former Club will receive a selection at the end of the first round beginning after the last regularly scheduled selection in the round.  The former Clubs will select based on reverse order of winning percentage from the prior championship season. 


    So… I guess they’ll have a first rounder regardless.

  23. Oh, I know what you were doing. I’m just pointing out that intentionally shitting on him in that way makes little sense because of how far apart the two actually are.

  24. Random question… What happens if the jays don’t start Snider at all this year/ keep him in triple A, or he only gets minimal playing time in the bigs. Do we still have him under team control next year or would we have to extend him orrrr is it that we would have to start him in order to not lose him? Can someone clarify for me?

  25. Why would Rogers willingly take on significant expenses to put grass on that field when they can continue making more revenues by renting it out to others as a multi-purpose stadium as they’ve been doing for the last decade? All so they can try to draw free agents that they aren’t going to spend big money on anyway?

    I don’t see it.

  26. 6 WAR is so far apart.

  27. Yeah, except that Olajuwon didn’t do anything for the Raptors. Clemens won the triple crown both years he was here.

  28. Stieb is only as close as he is in WAR because he pitched for so long with the team. Look beyond WAR at the enormous difference in peripherals. Roy Halladay is a vastly superior pitcher to Dave Stieb…he’s one of the greatest pitchers in the game’s history.

  29. Clemens also wasn’t at the tail end of his career.

  30. You missed the point of the analogy (I used Molitor earlier as well). If you’re going to call somebody the greatest player in team history, he’s got to be around more than a season or two. Especially when you have great pitchers like Halladay and Stieb who played for over a decade with your organization.

  31. He can be optioned to triple-A one more time without having to pass through waivers. So, if they didn’t trade him, he’d get one last shot to make the club in 2013, and if they wanted to send him down, they would have to expose him. An extension is very much not in the cards at this point. 

  32. Next your going to tell me that Juan Guzman was better then Steib

  33. You’re just being pointlessly obtuse now.

  34. Weren’t you being pointlessly obtuse in the first place?

  35. There’s nothing obtuse about pointing out that Roy Halladay was vastly superior to Dave Stieb and by far the best pitcher in team history. If Stoeten wants to shit on him (for some unknown reason), he should try a little harder next time.

    Why you proceeded to disagree with any of that, I’m not sure.

  36. I wasn’t wearing a fedora, but you were sitting pretty close to that old guy who goes batshit insane if you bring a beer into the non-alcoholic section up in 500.

    I’m so used to seeing your homeless picture of Griff that I was shocked at how dapper he looked in his skinny pants.

    Oh ya, and kudos to making Drew get the round of beer.

  37. Drew offered!

    Feel free to say hi next time you see me there. You know, if you like.

  38. Deal. You’re just so intimidating with that badass hipster jacket and a press pass.

    I got seasons in 500 behind home plate this year so I should be around a bit.

  39. natural grass  : )

  40. Back In Blue is, apparently, a Kitchener-based video blog hosted by what I can only assume is one of the host’s uncle’s wedding video company.  Fucking.  Amazing.

  41. Isn’t the reference to 1st and 2nd round pick about the over spending in the draft?  I think the CBA takes away if you go over your allotted amount by +10%

  42. that is ridiculously stupid.  steib holds most of the jays pitching records so don’t say halladay is the jays greatest. that’s a joke. 

  43. For my money, if I could take any jays pitcher to get 3 outs it would be Duane Ward in his prime.  Granted, Clemens, Halladay and Stieb we’re amongst the best to put on the uni, but Wardo was a freaking monster in 92 and 93. He had the ungodly breaking stuff.

  44. when you’re talking about greatest in team history, you’re talking about greatness and longevity.  halladay simply didn’t play long enough here to surpass stieb.

    stieb 6 higher WAR
    stieb 27 more wins
    stieb 800 more IP
    stieb 54 more complete games
    stieb 15 more shutouts

  45. dont believe too much from the Niagara guy who claims the Rangers signed
    5 guys from his team of   young players from Venezuela playing in
    Niagara Falls, the guy is the biggest hustler around. check his work
    or here

  46. for info on the niagara falls man with the venezuelan kids – check out http://www.nfgiants.com or go to http://www.gnba.org and click on the ”Travel Team News”  link on the left side….there is an article (from last year) there about this team….coached by the Darrell Evans…that’s all I got to say about that

  47. Agreed. I think Beeston thought it would be great to throw the fans a bone & talk about grass. Sort of like ” we can support 120-150 million payroll”. It won’t happen. In case anyone asks him about it in 6 months, he can ay he spoke to engineers & said it wasn’t financially feasible.

  48. Haha did you just really just say that? I like you as a poster, but seriously…just because 5 fucking hipsters decide to forfeit real careers to be Jays bloggers please don’t associate the rest of us with them. As far as Leafs fans and DMB? Leafs fans …guidos? Not sure where you dreamt those up. I am and know many Jays/Leafs fans who don’t fit those criteria whatsoever. Did you see an Italian guy at a DMB concert with a Leafs t-shirt on and just sum it up? And no, I’m not Italian. And yes, while I enjoy Stoetens blog, hipsters piss me/the rest of the world off.

  49. I do notice those types kinda go toward those teams.  But I’m really just massively generalizing/joking.  Not really being serious.

  50. “but if they’re thinking platooning a lefty with Francisco, um… again,
    someone please feel free to tell the manager about the existence of

    Neither Davis nor Fransisco is anywhere near the point where they have enough PA against LHP to have any meaningful predictive data regarding their platoon splits.  At this point, the PA are so small that we’re better off applying a league split to their true talent than reading anything into their past splits.


  51. According to Griffin at the Star, Beeston said “By five years from now, we’d better surely be in post-season.” So now they’ve moved the target to somewhere between 2014 and 2017? There’s a commercial that runs on TV that asks a simple question: Are You In? Or Are You Out? That’s about all there is to it: either you’re in our you’re out. The rest of the blather is all just spin, posturing, rationalization and excuses.  For going on 20 years now, the Yankees have been “In” and the Blue Jays have been “Out.” From what we’re hearing, that is not about to change any time soon.

  52. I have anger issues lol

  53. Josh Towers was good, but I have to give the nod to Halladay being the best Blue Jays pitcher, sorry Stoeten

  54. The question about the ladies clothes was from a friend of mine who I invited to the event.  She has become a huge Jays fan in the last two seasons (didn’t know a single thing about baseball at all when I talked her into buying 2010 Star passes) and really is bothered by the lack of thought women are apparently given.  I had to buy from the kids section when I wanted a Lawrie shirt last year because they only bothered to make Bautista and JPA in ladies.  Now they’ve added Romero and Lawrie to that list, so the cute and popular guys.  But kids and men rank higher in priority and that’s not cool.

    I talked to Beeston after the event about a Jays HOF in the Dome and he said that they’re considering doing something.  I compared it to the Bell Centre and how proud you feel as a fan to see all those great moments.  The odd UFC or monster truck might play there, but that’s the home of the Jays and it should damn well look like it.  I’m tired of walking into multi purpose room A instead of the Jays’ home stadium.

    Sat behind BiB (not knowing who/what he was) and my husband was disgusted to see that once lovely crested pro jersey turned into a jerseyfail. 

    Anyone else notice the utter lack of security?  When they didn’t ask us so much as who we were when we walked in, I thought about bringing in some homeless to fill some seats, but the lady with the beer tray distracted me.

  55. I was once a retail buyer in one of my former lives and the simple matter of fact is that if the merchandise you bring in for a specific market doesn’t sell or only a specific ‘style’ of merchandise sells for that market, there is no reason to expand what is not selling.

    It likely has nothing to do with ‘a lack of thought women are given’, but has more to do with the fact that you are likely in the minority and this is a business that is trying to maximize profits.

  56. The BiB boys seem a little too connected, if you ask me.   They’ve only been doing video podcasts for a month and have already lined up interviews with AA, Beeston and Darren Oliver? I’m a little suspicious about their independence from the Jays/Rogers.

  57. “claiming that the club won’t do a deal for more than five years on anyone”

    So if Bautista wanted to rework his deal for 7 years at $1Mill a season, the Jays wouldn’t do it?

  58. There are a couple of Blue Jays nuggets in the following Baseball America Q&A including:
    1. Yoenis Cespedes would be the Jays #1 prospect ahead of Travis D’Anaud if they signed him.
    2. About 85 Blue Jays prospects not even in their top 30 prospects, would be in the White Sox top 30 list.


  59. clemens

  60. Maybe the reason merchandise isn’t selling is because it’s the wrong merchandise? There’s a lot of us who would buy merch if it fit/had team colours/range of players. Not all of us are twee sticks.

  61. I was going to say hi to stoeten too, but was also scared away by that hipster jacket.  i didn’t know whether i’d get scorned or asked for change.

    what happened to the all black, jays jacket, jays bag, trying to look all official and shit?

  62. RICHARD GRIFFIN IS A TERRIFYING MAN. He looks like an extra from Deadwood. 

  63. How does that statement mean they’ve moved any target? Your comprehension capabilities are outstanding. Within the next 5 years means somewhere between 2012-2017 by my calculations.

  64. Anyone who argues that Leafs fans aren’t all either ‘Old Men in Suits’ or ‘Gino from Woodbridge’ is walking around with their eyes closed.

  65. Isn’t Phil Niekro the only hall of famer to pitch for the Jays?  Until someone else makes it, problem solved, right?  ;-)

  66. “- A couple of times during the Q&A Alex Anthopoulos emphasised
    athleticism as being part of the direction the club is headed in. A
    subtle way to undercut the fans who are livid over Fielder, or a genuine
    tactic? Judging by the profiles of the kinds of prospects he’s
    acquired, I’ll guess the latter.”

    This isn’t something that came up just this off season to rationalize Fielder.  AA has been talking about athletic players since he became the GM.

  67. what the fuck is a hipster jacket? people who use the word “HIPSTER” as some kind of apt descriptor are fucking idiot clowns. stoeten does great work and he doesn’t have to pander to some bullshit establishment dress code to make it happen. good for him!

  68. What I dont understand about the whole “it’s a multipurpose stadium so we cant put in grass”:

    A lot of other natural grass stadiums can host other events too. There are Monster Truck shows at Angel Stadium. Safeco Field hosted Wrestlemania. Plenty of football and baseball stadiums host concerts. Why can’t they do all of the above at the Dome and still put in real grass?

    If they are really serious about it and don’t want to foot the bill for a fully-integrated drainage system, they should invest in a retractable grass field, like the Arizona Cardinals. The entire field is on a moveable plate that they can wheel outside to get sunlight and rain while the inside of the stadium can be used for other events.

  69. The only no hitter in Jays history.  Along with all the other accolades and records.

  70. It’s the same BS machine that spreads the perpetual “two years away from contention”. They expect enough people to believe them so that it’s not an issue.

  71. Halladay will be judged by the baseball gods. Even his Mormon God may be a little perturbed. That Phillies game last year was an embarrassment to our franchise. I dream of a day when the SkyDome is “filled” with real fans that boo a bum like Halladay. That ‘trade-demand’ shit kills clubs, and should be met with the utmost disdain. (If we need grass to attract good players, then grow that shit Beast!)

  72. Unfortunately, Rogers sees these games as a huge win. Better to make $$$ on the attendance than actually spending the $$ to keep him here by putting a winning team around him.

    Look on the bright side, we got a fantastic prospect in Drabek in the deal.

  73. I suppose….but he should be booed…and he will never get a ring!!!

  74. Fuck me, you’re a needy social retard. Are the Blue Jays the only topic that you feel any exaltation from?

    You’re comparing peripheral stats from a different era. That makes no sense. What makes the least sense is that you think anybody really cares about your argument … you’re getting replies because you’re being annoying and everyone wants it to stop.

  75. Athletic players? That’s RACIST!

  76. Not only that, but he’s been dressing the same way since grade 11, when he stopped wearing only basketball jersies. He has a uniform that predates hipsterism … which isn’t even a thing. A “Hipster” is apparantly any person that you want to project some angst on.

  77. Are you retarded? Where do they retract it to? You can’t roll up a grass field.

  78. Setting a timetable on contention, even one as vague as the one Beeston set last night probably isn’t the best idea and it’s also something weird to say when you are barely spending over $70 million on team payroll.

    What a strange state of the french fries.

  79. So whats the excuse when the Jays don’t make the playoffs twice (or once) in the next 5 years?

  80. Those links went nowhere. Curious to get the right ones and follow-up on this.

  81. Because, as everyone knows, if they’re not spending $120-million right now, they’re never going to spend it.

  82. Just using the term hipster as though it actually means anything is pretty seriously moronic, FYI.

  83. If you’re only hearing what you want to hear, sure.

  84. 70M? They are spending about 85M this year. Next year, there is 10M in raises for already signed players. Now, with the departures and possible promotions of prospects they may not actually end up increasing payroll next year, but if you are going to bitch, and least make the bitching factual.

  85. I doubt it’s a corporate connection. Probably somebody’s daddy.

  86. Yes, because pointing out the 3rd best of 3 prospects the Jays got in exchange for Halladay really makes your point.

  87. Players didn’t perform as expected
    Tough competing with the “big dogs” in the AL East
    Can’t increase payroll to field a more competitive team until fans show up

  88. Yep, the people who believe the perpetual two years away from contention are the ones to be looked down upon, not the fucking morons who can’t be bothered to think two seconds why it might actually be different this time.

  89. Curious about the inclusion of bloggers afterwards.
    Does this mean the Jays are giving some credibility to them or just patronizing them in hopes of support?Sorta treating them as a fan booster section or more as a rising force to be considered by the Jays PR dept.?
    After years of apathy towards bloggers,does this mean they are achieving a certain amount of respectability?
    If so,aside from BiB,who did the Jays deem worthy of inviting to the shindig?

  90. True that it is expensive to put in natural grass, but it is getting less so. Also, in some circumstances, natural grass allows other kinds of multi-purpose activity. They could let TFC use it for regular season games where >>20k people will show up (like Impact use the Olympic stadium). Just an example.

    Beeston is bringing it up because the economics of natural grass in stadia are changing and that might allow the them to make the switch eventually. I doubt it is imminent but it does seem increasingly possible.

  91. Hahahaha! Great line about Drabek!

    Too bad they got their best prospect, d’Arnaud in the deal. And the guy they flipped for Gose.

  92. That it’s really hard to make the playoffs out of the AL East? Boston has missed the playoffs two years in a row, you know. 

  93. Stoeten, we really don’t know whether it’s different this time or not, and won’t until the end of the season.  Can we please stop all this high-handed proclamating about AA and his intentions/abilities/he’s the Son of God and we should all recognize that.  Let’s see where we are at the end of August.  If we are still in there and fighting for a Wild Card, then, even if we lose out, I will consider that a job well done.  If, however, we drop out of the race to all intents and purposes by the All-Star break, again, like we have since 2003, I will be…er…very disappointed.

  94. Did Beeston explain to everyone that the fans need to show up before payroll will increase, or did you address the crowd and do it for him?

  95. “About 85 Blue Jays prospects not even in their top 30 prospects, would be in the White Sox top 30 list.”

    85! 85! 85! That is how you deal with prospect attrition. That is TWO 40-man rosters… For shits & giggles: A 15-30% success rate (success here means play >1 MLB game), which is reasonable for >C- prospects (a la Sickels) over a development cycle (5 years; crudely the time it takes a HS draft pick to make MLB)… basic assumptions… would mean, barring trades just for fun, 3 to 4 internal additions to the 25-man roster PER YEAR!

    That doesn’t even seem possible…

  96. The results of this year have absolutely nothing to do with it. The bucketloads of talent in the minors have everything to do with it. That’s very new for this organization.

  97. Third best NOW. When we got him all the Rogers apologists were choosing what to wear to his Hall of Fame speach.

    Sure free agents aren’t a guarantee, but much more so than prospects.

  98. Great observation about free agents being better gambles than prospects. Problem is, prospects cost a fraction of what free agents cost. You can’t build a club with free agents– not even the Yankees can do that. So, please, stop looking down on those you moronically call Rogers apologists. You don’t have the answers, champ.

  99. I know we say this a lot, but You’re Fucking Retarded. 

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