Breaking: Adam Lind’s Spirit

According to a tweet from Shi Davidi of Rogers’ own Sportsnet, the Rogers-owned Jays have shuffled heretofore de facto cleanup hitter Adam Lind down to the eighth spot in the batting order for this afternoon’s post-clusterfuck getaway attempt against Oakland right-hander Tyson Ross.

Eric Thames will hit fifth.

Thames hasn’t exactly been mashing right-handers this season. In fact, thanks to a .385 BABIP his numbers are better against lefties– the reverse of last year, when he put up an awful .273 wOBA against southpaws over 91 plate appearances.

But… um… he’s still been better than Adam Lind, who has put up similar numbers this year against his preferred competition, right-handers, sitting at a .278 wOBA through 83 PA.

Add in the 26 plate appearances Lind has been inexplicably given against lefties (wRC+ of 25!!?!), and you get right about to the magic 100 at-bat mark that John Farrell uses as a benchmark for assessment of a player… at the start of a season. Because, y’know, what possible fucking sense would it make, when constructing a lineup, to look at the 1155 plate appearances over the previous two seasons in which Lind also sucked?

No, no, these 100 have finally told us that Adam Lind… Adam Lind might not be very good. Multi-million dollar asset management, everybody!!!!

The lineup may not exactly be ideal, but… baby steps, I guess.

The Blue Jays Full Lineup for this afternoon…

K. Johnson 2B
Y. Escobar SS
J. Bautista RF
E. Encarnacion DH
E. Thames LF
B. Lawrie 3B
C. Rasmus  CF
A. Lind 1B
J. Arencibia C

Comments (111)

  1. Amen.

  2. Sooooo – this decision should have been made weeks ago. Does that mean we have to put up with CoCo at the end of games for another two weeks before the Jays officially remove him as closer?

  3. About time!!

  4. Finally!!!! but thames hitting fifth??? seriously farrell??? What about lawrie or rasmus there?

    • Rasmus isn’t exactly tearing it up out there..

    • Rasmus hitting 5th? Based on shit he did two years ago? Well its that type of mentality that resulted in Lind hitting 4th for so long.

      Lawrie should be hitting 5th and not because he’s been doing great or anything, but because he is the least inept.

      • Well due to farells L-R-L infatuation id rather have rasmus hit fifth than thames. At least rasmus can take a walk.

        • I’m hopeful that with some more guys in base in front of him and Lawrie hitting behnd him that Thames will see a lot of Fastballs and that his lack of OB skills might be hidden for a while.

        • Agreed. Rasmus has a great eye at the plate, and he doesn’t strike out nearly as much as guys like Thames and Lind.

          • Ummmmm

            Julius you should check stats before you say stuff like that. Rasmus has struck out 30 times. Which is more than both Thames and Lind.

            What Rasmus does provide is some great range in CF.

    • Thames has been fine recently… I don’t have a big problem with that.

    • Seriously? We got the change that we wanted and you’re still not happy. Fuck off.

  5. Ok… so we’re looking at:
    Johnson -L
    Escobar -R
    Bautista -R
    Encarnacion -R
    Thames – L
    Lawrie – R
    Rasmus – L
    Lind – L
    Arencibia – R

    … ?

    • But the whole reason it took this long for Lind to be moved out of the 4 hole was so it was L-R-L-R…

      JF is just fucking with us again and tomorrow Lindy-Loo will be back up.

      • I don’t understand the logic behind rotating lefties and righties in a line-up. That shouldn’t even come into the conversation, as it’s like saying, I’m going to sacrifice the first 6 to 7 innings of the ball game just so I don’t run into a situation in the 8th inning where a bullpen specialist can be brought in to face consecutive hitters. Just make the damn line-up based on who you think are your best hitters against a given pitcher.

        • How are you “sacrificing 6 or 7 innings” by putting Lind between Encarnacion and Bautista? That’s a fucking stupid assertion. “Sabrmetric research” has “shown” that lineup orders don’t matter nearly as much as you’re asserting. (At least under some mildly flawed assumptions.)

          • Whatever you gain by possibly inducing the opposing manager to make a dumb pitching change is MUCH bigger than any possible gains from changing a guy from 5 to 9

          • Then why are people complaining about Lind batting clean-up if it doesn’t matter where he hits in the line-up?

            BTW – the average number of plate appearances by position in the line-up, per season in the AL, is as follows:

            1st – 762
            2nd – 743
            3rd – 725
            4th – 709
            5th – 693
            6th – 675
            7th – 657
            8th – 638
            9th – 618

            So essentially the batter hitting 1st gets almost one additional plate appearance per game, so I do believe it matters.

          • Lol Peter just owned you bro.

  6. Got to say though this lineup shows how this lineup is still lacking another bat. EE is not a cleanup hitter either on a good team.

    • But but but, what about the new TWO hand approach employed by EE? The altered swing mechanics? Did he just forget all that?

      This is why I find it funny anytime someone is swinging a hot bat and they credit some alteration in swing mechanics for it….it rarely lasts and when it evaporates, do they then claim that the mechanical alteration went away?

      why cant people just admit that hitting is a weird thing and sometimes you just see the ball better than other times.

      • This.

        EE isn’t as good as his April showed us. Maybe he can be an .800 OPS guy with 25 bombs this year, which is an improvement, but is he that 1.000+ OPS guy we saw? Hell no.

        In the last week, Edwin’s fWAR has dropped from 1.0 to 0.6. That’s a fairly significant drop in just one week.

    • oh shut up mouthpiece. EE has been knocking the snot out of the ball for a month. he is a candidate for the position. sometimes people just spout shit to know they exist. and every fucking lineup except maybe texas can use another big time hitter. arsewipe. and what the fuck is alex above your post trying to say in his second fucking language english. fuckin twisted my mind right around to where it started. jp might be getting revealed as an arrogant asshole since the the donut tweet and the response to last nights pinch hit. number 1 it still put them in the lead by getting to a hot kj. jp either strikes out a ton or a double play machine. he says he couldnt sleep. pussy. get your average decent then maybe have a complaint if the ph doesnt workout for the team.fuck i still cant believe farrell did it because he cost the game back in the baltimore series i think for not replacing the big puss. fuck is farrell maybe a little slow or retarded?

  7. Well last night Brandon Inge was hitting cleanup for the As…

  8. Here is the lineup i would do if i were farell
    1) Lawrie
    2) Johnson
    3) Bautista
    4) EE
    5) Rasmus
    6) Lind
    7) Arencibia
    8) Thames
    9) Escobar

    Fuck this team really needs another bat.

    • Escobar ss

      Johnson 2b

      Lawrie 3b

      Bautista rf

      Thames LF

      EE DH

      Cooper 1B

      JPA c

      Rasmus cF

    • i could not be happier that the 8 ) that you intended turned into cool guy emoticon by shaft, i mean thames’ name

    • arencibia 7th.hahahhaaa have you ever seen a blank stare? look in the mirror. double entendre. you are the blank

    • I like your lineup. Lawrie is totally a leadoff guy for me. Not because of any special OBP % – just because his intensity at the plate and when he is on base will pressure the pitcher. I wouldn’t say that about many players at all and it is the type of BS speculation I normally hate, but yeah I really think it.

  9. Also if we have an away day strike zone today hopefully we don’t even need the bullpen

    It’s frightening that we are investing

    Cordero 4.5
    Oliver 4+
    Frasor 3.5
    Casey 2.7
    CV 2.1

    And we didn’t want to get a decent one or even 2 year contract bat for high dollars.

    There aren’t even comp picks anymore for these guys. What a waste of $

    • they really, really thought that lind was going to bounce back. or so they might want us to think .

    • Do you honestly not understand how cheap those deals are, relative to MLB contracts?

      And how decent four of those guys are, relative to MLB relievers?

      And how ridiculous Papelbon’s contract is and how Madson already got hurt and how Bell is fucking atrocious already?

      There is literally nothing to complain about that you’re complaining about… except the bat, which yes, they could use.

      • Where would you even put an expensive rental bat, though?

        We’re either grooming a rookie or waiting for someone young to relive his past glory at every single position except RF and DH. You’d be impairing development or pissing away one of the guys the Jays took a flyer on. (Or benching Bautista or Edwin.)

        I realise everyone hates Lind right now and wants to replace him with damn near anybody. That’s the same everyone who was pissed off at Bautista for taking plate appearances away from Randy Ruiz a couple of years ago. I’m going to trust the Jays brass on this one.

        (OK, I guess it is a little bit miraculous that no position player has gotten injured yet this season. In which case we’re stuck either with someone unready or an AAAA player.)

      • I think what he’s complaining about is the fact that 4.5 million could have been saved on Cordero and put towards a decent bat for one season. That’s what I took it to mean anyways.

        • Well, if you have the benefit of hindsight, spending 4.5 million on a rental bat would be egregiously fucking stupid when they have turned it into $500 million on the market and signed Fielder, Darvish, Pujols, and, I d’no, Beltran. And had more left over.

  10. I think hitting 1st would be good for lawrie’s development so he could learn to take a few pitches and be more patient. Plus he has the 2nd best speed on the team after davis.

  11. Why is it so hard for the Jays to call up Snider, put him in LF, let Encarnacion play 1st, and Thames DH. Then give Lind the boot down to let that nuisance figure his shit out and stop wasting everyone’s time

    • Because Snider is hurt….?

      • Then let David Cooper come up to play 1st

        • eww

        • In a way I’d almost like that, just so fans can see why that’s such a terrible idea. Or, shit, on the off chance it even maybe works for a bit.

          Thing is… not that AA is infallible or anything, but I’m pretty sure there’s a reason he– and everybody else in the game thinks– Cooper won’t translate what he does in the PCL to here. I can’t claim to know what that reason is, beyond the lack of power and the PCL’s impact on stats, but I would suspect his age and the fact that he’s repeating the level impacts the numbers as well, as they see it, and that there’s something in his approach, or some weakness in his swing that he can get by with in the PCL but will be exploited hard by pitchers at this level.

          Just an assumption, of course, because yes, on straight-up stats, he looks like some kind of Golden God. There’s obviously a reason nobody thinks that’s the case.

    • Lind should still be getting opportunites against RHP, given what else is on this roster. He had a .328 wOBA and 105 wRC+ last year, so… he can be average.

      • 3 comments in a row by Stoeten that he didn’t use the word moron,that made sense and I agree with.

        Is that the real Stoeten or is it December 23 today?

        Well done sir.

  12. But Lind still has value in this lineup – he plays a mean defensive first base, right? RIGHT?

    • Sure. Soft hands, good range. He’s come a long way from a year ago.

      • But is he BIG and SCHTROOOOONG

        • Adam Lind is a big strong man. I’ve always said that. I will say this, though: He needs to work on his two-strike approach. If he gets that batting average on balls in play up like Jose Molina last year, that means he’s finding holes. Good hitters’ll do that.

    • Like that two-out throw from Escobar he misplayed yesterday? I could just picture Romero standing there saying, “that’s alright Lindy. At least you’re hitt—oooh, wait… never mind…”

  13. Here we go.

    Now let Lind tear it up further down the lineup where he’s always felt more comfortable. Love the promotion of EE to 4th. Maybe now Jose will start seeing a bit less slop, without Lind hitting behind him.

  14. also if anyone has noticed, lind’s defense has failed lately. he failed to scoop a few balls in the dirt, most noticeablly was lawrie’s 9th inn loss. he doesn’t look confident at all, except on the dance floor.

    • alot of the jays defence has turned to slop.fuckin throwing errors are so frequent i thought EE was permanently at 3rd. ……and jansen is the closer. the jiggle jiggle dance before the throw is the best choice? farrel has me stumped on that one. maybe he is a little retarded

  15. I think to be spending c. 30% of your real payroll on the bullpen is questionable asset allocation for almost any team, but especially one on a limited budget and where the money could be better spent on:

    - a bat
    - getting the last int’l FAs before the changes
    - the draft (spend to the cap)

    It just doesn’t make that much sense to be frugal everywehre except the bullpen when you are getting marginal upgrades over guys like Beck anyway – and bullpen performance seems to fluctuate widely from year to year.

    • it should be obvious the only reason he signed those relievers is to trade them at the deadline. this is alex gaming the system. oliver, cordero and frasor weren’t going to be here full season.

      • Because…??

        If those guys are no longer there who is gonna replace them? At some point you have to trot out a reliever and it’s generally accepted that the reliever should be a reasonably good one. And what, exactly, do you think you will get for, say, Cordero?

        • you replace them with prospects like carreno beck etc. you’d get the same thing for cordero you got for frasor

      • The only reason?

    • Are they being frugal elsewhere? They’re open to spending on a bat, just not if it means entering a ten year contract with high-risk players. They’ve spent heavily on intl FA’s and since AA took over they have been one of the highest spending teams in the draft.

      Not sure where this idea that they’re frugal is coming from.

    • Who’s to say the money spent on the bullpen prevents them from doing any of what you suggest? In fact, I would wager the the approximate 15 million the bullpen is making has absolutely zero effect on international signings, amateur signing bonuses or “a bat”.

  16. And using genuinely insane contracts like Papplebom and Bell or Madson getting hurt doesn’t make the argument any stronger.

    Look at how the Rays construct a pen then look at the Jays.

    AA’s bullpen construction approach strikes me as weird – (unlike last year which I got)

    • I thought AA was trying to build his pen in the same manner as the Rays – trying to find bargain relievers to fill holes for one year. Farnsworth was not a sure thing when the Rays signed him a few years ago and there were just as many question marks with Rodney. For some reason, things always work out for these guys when Tampa signs them. And what’s sad about it is how well Rauch and 2Frank are doing with the Mets this year.

      It’s easy to sit around in May and say the Jays should have signed Rodney instead of Cordero. And it’s just as easy to sit around and say the Jays should have signed Carlos Pena….

  17. can we now call farrell “glacier farrell”. how the fuck do you move a guy from 5th to 8th in 1 shot. I wonder what will happen end of next year when farrells contract expires, will he get extended because alex refuses to admit he screwed up?

  18. if you’re 1B isn’t a middle of the order bat, then he’s useless (unless you are the texas rangers) .. not that moving Lind down in the order is what makes him not a middle of the order bat, he hasn’t been for 2 years now.

    He provides nothing special defensively and now they are atleast admitting he doesn’t offer anything offensively.

    Platoon!. period

  19. More bats would always be good, but the bats they have hitting for average would probably be good enough. Or if not average, less craptaculously than they currently are.

    re Lind. Farrell seems to be loyal to his players and not lose faith overnight. If that means the cost of getting Edwin, Escobar, Johnson and hopefully Rasmus to perform to potential is a bit too much faith in Lind, on balance I’ll take that. Hopefully the move down is permanent – because it feels like an act of mercy on the poor guy more than anything else.

  20. Bout time Farrell. I think Lind himself will be relieved to be moved down, he looks like a suicidial puppy as of late.

  21. Someone needs to do a study to see if R-L-R-L batting orders perform better than batting orders that pay absolutely no attention to that.

  22. Seeing Lind move down the order is a welcome sight. But there’s bigger pieces of shit to worry about, IMO..

    If the Jays have any sort of lead tonight heading into the 9th inning, and I see Cordero warming up, my fist might just go through the tv.

    • the only thing you are gonig to be seeing cordero doing in a high leverage situation is eating another chalupa. that mother fucker is fat.

  23. I’m with you on how overdue it is to move Lind down, and I rolled my eyes at having Thames that high up the order, but he is 4th on the team in OBP…. which, while blowing my mind does make this a little more defensible.

  24. Cordero and Santos have the highest ERA’s (9.53 and 9.00 respectively) out of anyone with an arm that has saved a game in Bigs this season.

    • ERA is stupid.
      Saves are stupid.
      Santos has been hurt.

      3 strikes on your post.

      • Sorry they both have the lowest FbiP(schWARma)BS+ metrics this season. Why is ERA stupid?

        It’s pretty obvious the Farrell thinks saves are stupid as well….

        • ERA is stupid because when you’re a reliever who’s only pitched a few innings (ie Santos) one bad outing blows it up and doesn’t really tell you much…. That’s the simplest reason. More generally it factors in all sorts of things that are not actually within the pitcher’s control so it’s an unfair stat.
          I’m not arguing that Cordero has been terrible and has no business in high leverage situations. But I would argue against you lumping Santos into the problem.

          LOL at your second point. Well played.

          • Understandable. Now while I don’t want to get start a big endless debate about the new metrics vs the old baseball card stats, (I think both have some merit), Santos’ early struggles coupled with Cordero’s regular meltdowns, coupled with last year’s chronic bullpen blowups tell me we have to seriously revamp the system/pitching coach situation.

            I feel that if we signed 1999 Mariano Rivera, he’d also have godawful numbers both new metrics and old O-Pee-Chee.

      • +1

    • Small sample size for Santos, I have faith in him. Cordero has admittedly looked awful, though.

  25. We should make Travis Snider our closer.

  26. Santos has 2 blown saves in 5 innings pitched. Small sample size or not, this does not inspire confidence.

  27. John Farrell – man of action

    Coco Beware (hat tip to whatever commenter came up with that last week) is out, Janssen is in…

    • how quickly we forget. Janssen is no great shakes as a closer either. this team has one closer and now he is hurt. why is there this insistence on naming someone ELSE a closer rather than just play the matchups and ride the hot hand? i know there is this big thing with farrell on players “knowing their roles” but NONE of these guys were expecting to close anyway…they are all relievers who expect to possibly be called on at any time. not sure how naming one of them a closer solidifies their roles..since its actually a change in their role.

  28. It would be better if they could get Lind to bat 10th.

  29. Trade for Chris Davis. He can DH, play 1B AND close out games!

  30. they should have cordero pitch to lind and see what happens. I can just see it, wild pitch in the dirt and lind flails at it.

  31. Thank fuck. And Cordero to pitch in “middle relief”, Janssen as closer till Santos comes back. Also good.

  32. Lind might very well bounce back hitting down in the order (and he himself said in the past that he hated hitting clean-up), but I have a feeling that as soon as he starts hitting well down there, he’ll be brought back up in the order. Hopefully he succeeds though; the Jays are better when Lind is raking.

  33. In the offseason, Fullmer and I were discussing how this team needed another top of the rotation arm and an upgrade at LF & 1B to contend.

    Well here we are 30 games into the year…and something as simple as Rogers spending $20 – $30 mill to upgrade these 3 positions and the Jays look as good as anyone in the division. The Jays are contending in spite of a couple of big holes in LF and 1B. And I count Thames as a hole since he is not outhitting his putrid defense.

    Yes, small sample size blah blah blah…

    But this team is too close to not upgrade these positions as necessary. It doesn’t have to be expensive if AA can pry away Logan Morrison or Brandon Belt or whomever away…or if he can maybe offer to pay half of Adamn Dunn’s remaining salary if he feels ballsy.

    Point being, there is ZERO excuse next winter. The Jays have the perfect set-up to make upgrades…a couple of glaring holes on an otherwise strong roster. This is completely different from the JPR days with a bunch of slightly above average players with little impact.

    The time to spend in either prospects or money has come. I can forgive not going insane at the trade deadline…but I cannot forgive cheapness in the offseason when all it takes is money and not even a whole lot of it to contend.

    • only nothing thus far this year shows that they need another top of the rotation arm. a bat..sure..even with another bat, the offense is flawed. the offense is years away from being a contending offense. too many low on base guys…now the power is leaving too.

      • I’m assuming some regression from Drabek & Alvarez w/o improved peripherals (though Alvarez can easily have a 3-1 K-BB with a low K total).

        It’s not like I’m hellbent on spending money; if Morrow can morph into a top pitch and Drabek/Alvarez can be solid mid-rotation guys…then, yeah, don’t bother spending money on risky investments like pitchers…

        BUT…spend it to upgrade 1B & LF…or see if Snider is the guy.

        Adam Lind might be better than this…but expecting him to have a number of all star years in the future is ridiculous at this point.

        If you cut bait on a guy and he turns into something good…so what? Good teams lose good players. That’s how it works when you don’t pull a Tampa Bay and suck for 10 years. Boston lost Hanley…the Yanks lost Ian Kennedy…it hasn’t stopped them from contending.

    • What makes you think the Marlins will trade LoMo or the Giants Belt for, I don’t know, Cordero and two shitballers in A ball? There’s both give and take in trades and I doubt those two will come cheaply.

      • I have no idea the cost, if they are currently available or if they will become available.

        But LoMo (my preferred choice) isn’t really a whole lot different than Escobar and Rasmus when they were traded. He’s had issues with management already. A couple of ambiguous tweets and maybe he’s on the trade block.

    • there was zero excuse this year; except if you count the blathering idiots on this site and on fan590 (looking at you wilner) that claimed closers are ‘overrated’ and that the team was fine to not add a bona fide starter or big bat… at the same time singing the praises of AA for his ‘vastly’ improved bullpen.

      i mean, really? this is what passes for objective evaluations of a ball club?

      no wonder blogs get a bad rap. makes me think that griffin is the only guy who knows what he’s writing about. and that’s frightening.

  34. Hey what’s up guys? When it’s bases loaded one out for the other guys in the sixth inning, guess who’s coming in? You’re gonna be seeing some hot chocolately coco time then!

  35. Person who feels worst about the lineup: JP Arencibia.

    “I’m still hitting behind that guy !?!?!?!”

  36. April 19 is when Areniciba began turning things around. Only Kelly Johnson has a higher OPS on the team since then.

  37. what people dont seem to realize is that alex is cheap for good reason. he knows that if he starts spending now he cant go back to being cheap later, the fans wont tolerate it, so they don’t want to start that precedent of a 120 mil payroll.

  38. funny that once again wilner rushes to the defense of the indefensible as part of his rogers cheerleading assignment claiming that adam lind has not be bad for the last three years, and that he’ll improve and the key to his improvement… wait for it… is “time”. sigh.

    wilner should really be hired to write here; it’s a match of pure nonsense and wrong headed observation made in heaven.

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