According to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, via MLB Trade Rumors, the Toronto Blue Jays have spoken with the Philadelphia Phillies about two of the team’s potential free agents: Cole Hamels and Shane Victorino.

However, before we start inundating the Jays Shop with requests for #35 and #8 jerseys, it should be remembered that Toronto’s front office routinely inquires as to the availability of players in this fashion. With the Phillies struggling and locked in to several long term contracts, it’s very possible that the team would be interested in trading players they’ll be unable to afford in the future for cheaper Major League talent.

Again, it’s very likely that nothing will come out of this, but it is an interesting switch in positioning, considering that it was only a little more than two years ago that the Blue Jays traded Roy Halladay to the Phillies because the pitcher had requested a move to a contender.

Comments (142)

  1. Should of kept Gustavo Chacin

  2. I’d be upset if they DIDN’T inquire about Hamels’ availability.

  3. Orioles of the National League.

    • Eric Caravel called that on Baseball today a month ago… so why don’t we offer them Vladdy for Hamels straight up. If they hesitate we can let them throw in Victorino as make-weight. I mean, if they’re going to play being the OriLOLes, we should give them the chance to prove their chops.

  4. If you trade for Hamels, do you make any trade contingent on signing a new contract? I would have to imagine you’d want this – no sense trading big league talent for a rental in a year where you aren’t anticipating competing for the playoffs quite yet.

    • You would get 2 first round draft picks as compensation if he does not re-sign or accept arbitration

      • Not anymore. The new CBA says that the player has to be with you the whole year to get draft pick compensation.

  5. DILL TAK LIND FOR VICTORINO AN HAMMMELS BECUZ DER A NASHUNAL LEEGE TEEM RITE?

  6. For once, if the Jays can deal with better leverage than their division rivals due to the stockpile of high-ceiling talent that is scattered throught the different levels of their minor league system.

    AA’s honeymoon is pretty much over. Now is the time to show that he can engineer something that will leave a big stamp on the team.

    As for Hamels, I would be surprised to see him willing to sign an extension with the Blue Jays. He’s probably pining to sign with the newly owned Dodgers I would think.

    • “Now is the time to show that he can engineer something that will leave a big stamp on the team.”

      Because getting Morrow, Escobar, Johnson, Lawrie, Rasmus, Santos, Drabek, Hech, Gose, D’Arnaud, the other high-end draft & intl prospects he’s drafted, bringing in Farrell, creating the largest scouting staff in baseball, and providing this city and this fanbase with the most hope its seen in 20 years isn’t leaving a big enough stamp? What have you done in the last 2.5 years?

      • Was I dissing AA? Not at all. To the contrary, his dealings have paved the way for the Jays to have the best minor league system of any other team in the AL East. Just his ability to trade Wells should merit him a lifetime job in my view.

        But his honeymoon is nearing its end. Much like Pat Gillick did with the Alomar & Joe Carter trade, the time will soon be nearing for AA to don some big boy pants and make a blockbuster trade. Not saying its with the Phillies necessarily.

        The ball is in AA’s court to see if he can’t bring in a major MLB piece to help them to the post-season. He’s got assets to deal and ownership will support him if he can snag a big piece.

        • Gillick had been GM for a bit more than a dozen years when he made the Alomar/Carter trade. AA has a ways to go and certainly shouldn’t feel hurried to make a move.

          • I don’t think the age or experience card applies to AA. He’s made some pretty shrewd deals. We have seen that the Blue Jays are reluctant to make big FA acquisitions, which in my view, is the right way to go at this stage of the club’s development.

            But I think AA has assets that could be packaged to bring a high-impact MLB piece via trade.

        • I don’t understand the tired “honeymoon over” cliche that is being thrown around. Are you implying that he has gotten a free pass because he was new to the job? The praise he has gotten is because he not only rebuilt the minor league system, but also transformed the MLB team into a much more competitive team with a lot of flexibility in the process. Sure he has made some mistakes here and there, but the overall body of work to date has been great. I see no reason for people to be calling for him to do anything differently, since what he has been doing so far seems to be working pretty well.

          • Reply to Ballsdeep: Do you mean high-impact MLB pieces acquired through trade like Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus, Johnson, Santos, and Lawrie? Cause if you do, then I think its business as usual for the Jays’ front office …

          • Again, where have I dissed AA? He’s been great. What I am saying is that he now needs to take it up a notch and begin the process of dealing with other clubs to aqcuire some impact MLB talent.

            The pieces you mention have formed a nice core group. But the Jays are still missing an impact bat firstly and perhaps a starting pitcher. AA can do such a trade without stripping the farm system.

            Hamels is a bad example as he’s a on his walk year about to enter into a big big deal this offseason.

            I won’t pretend to know who is available. But we know who on the Jays roster is under the microscope. AA sees more value in making a trade. I expect something to come down before the July deadline.

          • When you say “sure he has made some mistakes here and there”

            What do you classify as his biggest mistakes?

            Just wondering out of curiosity, not to be controvesial.

      • Gratitude for your sanity brother. Add to your list that AA has dropped the payroll down which will at least to some degree make some more available when the time is right.

        • @Ballsdeep: It’s not a matter of you “dissing” him. I don’t know why you keep saying that as noone has said you are. The comments against your comment are because you are over-dramatizing the situation. There is no need for him to “step it up”. The “honey moon” is not over. He doesn’t need to show he can “engineer something that will leave a stamp on this club”. He just has to keep doing what he’s been doing for the past 2.5 years. If he does, he will likely acquire those pieces you are talking about, as he has been filling holes on this team with impact players continuously since he got here.

          • Ever been married? Honeymoons don’t last forever.

            Pretty soon, the fanbase will want to see some results, like a post season berth.

            Current rister is a nice core group, but its lacking a big bat.

    • aahhh The cliche of the offseason is back.

      “AA’s honeymoon is pretty much over”

      • @BallsDeep, this honeymoon talk needs to stop, he’s put on the field the best team we’ve had in years, Pretty soon? were 30-40 gams into the season, relax, rushing things is the last thing we want to do. We’ll have no trouble getting the pieces we need with all of our spects

  7. We still have Cecil, y’know!

  8. SHANF. But seriously, they would need to request a contract window with both these guys – if it progresses to that point then I’ll get excited. Till then, it’s just them kicking the tires on guys which is still interesting but isn’t huge news.

  9. PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!!1!

  10. About the Phillies, after raising Cole H., getting ROY and Uncle Cliffy, and then Oswalt, and then the Phillies fans said a championship is coming to town…the Karma wheel just turned against them. Hey Howard! How’s the leg?

    • What does karma have to do with it? They had a championship calibre team…you’re telling me you wouldn’t be running around screaming playoffs if you had that rotation? That’s what I thought. I feel bad for them and Howard, no team/fans/player deserves to have a great built team broken down by freak injuries.

      • That team was/will be fucked by his contract, not his injury.

        • But they are currently fucked by his injury. Who cares about the future when your team is built to contend now, know what I mean? Before Howard went down during the last game of the playoffs, they were seen as favorites to win again this season…but his injury and Utley’s changed all that.

          • The problem is that they’ve not only locked themselves into a contract with a big, seemingly rapidly declining/falling to pieces minus defending player in a league without a DH on an untradeable deal that provides for minimal flexibility in either replacing said player with anything but a stopgap (a long-term or impact piece would just be in the way when Big Money returns) or moving him. I agree with your point that the team was built to win in 2010… but why go the longterm/no option route in that case.
            Did Reuben Amaro buy into the concept that the world was ending after 2012? That the longterm deals that have him committing $100+million/season over terms carrying them well into their presumptive decline years to 3 starting pitchers (none of whom are cole hamels… I mean 10 million to Joe Blanton!?!) an (old) shortstop, (unhealthy) first baseman whose production is in decline, (injury prone and aging) second baseman, and (douchebag) reliever. Ok the qualifier on Pap-schmear may be a personal opinion, but the rest are quantifiable… The Phillies organizational philosophy has been based on the idea that if the world won’t be here in 2013, due to some mayan-foreseen apocalypse, neither will the MLBPA to enforce the contract they’ve signed. Not a bad call… except for the new Mayan calendars that show the world continuing indefinitely.

            Sorry Reuben

          • Perspective:
            Halladay+Papelbon+Utley+Howard+Rollins+Blanton+ Lee = approx $110 in 2012, or 64% of their total payroll for 2012
            for 2013, the same players, minus Blanton whose contract is up, cost 105ish millions of dollars, or 97% of their committed dollars. With a modest free agent market this coming offseason, a lot of holes to fill, and a rapidly aging cast of locked in players seemingly perfectly positioned to regress, the concept of financial flexibility would seem to be important to sustainable development of the team. Instead they get Ryan Howard, broken first baseman (ok, he’s out for a bit, not shattered or anything, but WTF) locked up with a minimum of 105 million (so there is a team option… one… in 2017.. for 23 million… with a $10 million buyout… in his age 38 season.) guaranteed left on the deal until 2016 at the least.
            All of which begs the question: Why have I never looked at this contract before when I was feeling down in the dumps? That’s gross!

            CT to Cots Contracts via the inimitable Baseball Prospectus for the contract data.

  11. Would Amaro Jr. bite on Drabek, D’Arnaud, Gose for Halladay???! Doc wants to pitch for a contender anyways.

    • I wouldn’t do that deal. Doc was worth it then, don’t think he worth that package now.

      • Yeah, especially considering that those prospects are 2 years more mature and close to (and in) the majors. that’s a terrible deal for the Jays.

        • That deal would basically mean the Phillies got 2 and a half years of Doc for nothing. D’Arnaud, McGuire, and Aaron Sanchez would be a great offer that I could live with though.

          • Still a vast overpayment IMO. McGuire, Sanchez alone I’d do, but anything more and the Phillies can enjoy having an average team and no farm system.

    • turn around. start walking.

    • Idjiot

    • I’d probably deal D’Arnauld and Gose for Halladay. My gut just tells me that neither of these guys will be much better than average major leaguers.

      • My gut tells me you are not a major league scout.

        • Sorry if I’m not as excited as most Blue Jays fans about players that have put up the following career numbers:

          .256/332/382, 448 K’s, 160 BB’s
          .278/337/448, 332 K’s, 133 BB’s

          I have more hope for Gose since he is so young, but you are getting the greatest pitcher in a generation back in return.

          • that is nearing the end of his career.

          • I’m confused. Is it your gut or minor league stats that leads you to believe that we should trade away our future for an over-the-hill pitcher?

          • An over the hill pitcher who is worth 1.4fWAR after seven starts? He’s got at least three excellent seasons left imo, barring injury.

            Not saying I want him back right now, or that I approve of any of the trades mentioned above, but come one, give the guy some fucking respect.

          • Dude this is not how “scouting” works. Some kid somewhere is hitting .450 in a t-ball league. Doesn’t mean he will be an MLB star. This logic works the other way too.

          • If the Jays could get Halladay back this year, it would virtually guarantee a playoff appearance.

            Rogers Centre would be packed, & the Blue Jays would be the hottest ticket in town.

            From a clubhouse perspective, I wonder how Romero would feel being demoted to number 2 etc.. but bringing back a playoff team would be exciting.

            It seems AA wants to win this year by signing Guerrero, moving down Lind & removing Cordero as closer.

      • Hasn’t it been reported that Amaro inquired about D’Arnoud? I think if the Jays do any major deal with the Phil’s, D’Arnoud would have to be the centerpiece, and I would be reluctant to give him up unless you got more than a half a year rental out of the player in return.

        • Maybe the Jays do a trade that involves Arencibia, but I still don’t find it likely. The two teams in my eyes don’t match up so well.

    • LOL wow, I hope you’re fucking joking.

    • All the Jays’d be doing there would essentially serving as the Phillies farm system for some extremely high upside talent, while giving them the best years of Doc.

  12. We heard about this deal before it happened.

    Therefore, it’s not happening.

  13. Now the speculating begins…would Hutchison, Carlos Perez, Marisnick be enough for Hamels? Too much to give up for the Jays?

  14. I rather have the prospects than either of those two. Hamles is looking to get paid and I imagine there are other teams that will give him more than 5 years that the jays won’t. So we are talking just a rental and to me I rather have the prospects. And last I checked the jays outfield is pretty full even with the ? In left field.

    • I think the caveat to any deal would be for Hamels or Victorino to sign an extension – it wouldn’t be a smart move on AA’s part, nor would it be part of his M.O. to trade his prospects for just a rental player.

      • 1) Hamels is in line for more than 5 years, so no way he’d agree to that
        2) Not sure why AA’s MO is remotely relevant. It’s not like he’s dealt for help at the deadline before, so of course he wouldn’t have any trades for rental players (unless you count buying Miguel Olivo’s draft pick compensation).

        • Try and convince him to sign a Cliff Lee deal? 5 years plus a vesting option. Cain got 5 years. Maybe for 5/120-130 we could convince him to sign. And I’d say his M.O. Is always relevant – AA stays away from bad contracts as much as he can, unless he can get Hamels/Victorino to sign a deal at his price nothing will happen.

          • The point I was trying to make is that if he can’t get him signed, the prospects they give up would be much better and more developed than the compensation picks they’d get after Hamels declined arbitration.

          • I doubt AA is interested in paying Hamels’ asking price in an extension deal. But the fact that he is asking about such players is a good sign that AA might be willing to make a deal at some point.

            Great, we have 2 future HOF players in our midst but isn’t time that the Jays proceed to get some high-impact MLB talent?

          • You said his MO wasn’t to trade players for a rental (or specifically, to sacrifice part of the future to win now). I said it was irrelevant because it is. He’s never been in the situation that suggested it might make sense, so of course it’s not part of his MO.

        • He may not have dealt at the deadline before, but his M.O. Is sustained competition. With that in mind, I just don’t see him dealing possible parts of the future for a two month rental, unless he believes it makes them World Series contenders

  15. After that Prince Fielder + Yu Darvish offseason, I’m never believing any Jays rumors ever again.

    • I absolutely believe he has talked to them. But certainly don’t expect anything to come of it.

    • Huh? They never said that they were going after Fielder. And only the media reported on them bidding high for Darvish which THEY VERY WELL MAY HAVE DONE. Let me explain something about sealed bid auctions: it is a guess whether you will be the highest bidder.

      So I don’t know why you believed anything in particular in the first place nor do I understand why you will apply these unknowns to disrelated future events.

    • You mean the off season where the team explicitly stated it wasn’t giving out 5+year deals, and then didn’t get the free agent who required an 8-10 year deal (Fielder)? Or the Off season where they lost a competitive closed bid auction to another team amid rumours (driven almost exclusively by US based sources who could not have possibly known a damn thing about the posting results, and a certain blogger/AA beat grunt) had them in the lead… in the secret closed bidding process?
      Grab a paper bag. Put in front of face. Inhale- deep breath, now exhale. Repeat while counting backwards from 104 until you’ve calmed down.

  16. Just like the offseason, the Jays are apparently in talks for every player in baseball.

    I’ll get excited when something happens.

  17. Hutchinson, Jimenez and low level A prospect for Hamels..

    do you do it.

  18. Why would the Blue Jays go after Hamels when they already have a younger Cole Hamels in Brett Cecil???

    *the question above is soaked in sarcasm and should not at all be considered serious or material. If you did believe the above was a serious question, please contact your family physician or psychiatrist immediately.

    • Oh Wilner…I can’t believe he kept defending that one.

      • wilner is the matt devlin of the jays airwaves.

      • To be fair, he wasn’t the one who made the initial comment about it, and he did constantly say (but his stuff isn’t even close to as good” as a codicil. He was referring to the fact that they pitch in the same style (control, not huge velo, heavy reliance on a plus change). Cecil just happened to have lost the mph on his fastball that differentiated it from his change, turning his entire repetoire into a collection of beachballs.

        I don’t think even to most optimistic of Jays boosters thinks that Cecil even comes close to comparing to Hamels on a true talent level.

    • OMG I can’t believe you would ask a question like that so seriously and without any sarcasm or at least a joke of some kind intended!!!!

      *the reply above is soaked in sarcasm and should not at all be considered serious or material. If you did believe the above was a serious reply , please contact your family physician or psychiatrist immediately.

    • SAME GUY!!!!!!!!

  19. Adding Hamels to an already solid rotation would be a prestigious move.

  20. Love the idea of Victorino. If JF is still insisting on his R-L batting order:

    Victorino
    Escobar
    Jose
    KJ
    EE
    Rasmus
    Lawrie
    Lind
    Arencibia

    Love it. Basically trading Thames in for Victorino.

    • You could swap out Denard Span in that same scenario and probably pay less. Plus he’s signed through his arb years plus an option ($9 million) for his first FA year in 2015. You have to think Minny is going to be looking at getting younger and he’d look great in LF. Bring up Snider for good by July and have him DH and swap out OFs on off days, EE at first and Lind to the bench.

      • I wouldn’t mind Span – this allows the Jays to package Rajai Davis and/or ET/Francisco together as part of a package since Span does some of the same things as Davis but is a better hitter/fielder, so having both Davis and ET/Francisco would be redundant.

        And? Lon… swap out Lind and plug in Vladdy into the 4th or 5th spot with EE, and I’m happy.

        • The same Denard Span who rifles the ball into the infield after making the 3rd out in the outfield? Yeah, eyes on the prize, that guy…

  21. Fuck Shane Victorino, ask for Hunter Pence!

  22. “Do it. Pay that man his money.”

  23. For what it’s worth, the gist of Rosenthal’s piece isn’t to suggest that the jays might actually make the trade, but jsut to point out that they might be buyers and the phillies might be sellers. The landscape is changing.

  24. You can bet that the phillies want d’arnaud back but at what cost would they have to give up for him?

  25. Hamels would be fucking awesome with the Jays.

    But would cost a fucking boat load in cash and prospects. The deal would have to be contingent on the Jays locking up Hamels, but I’ve only ever seen those in the off-season, when you can negotiate with the player for a week or so…

  26. I’d prefer a 1B and another bat.

    • We’ve got it already…. Vladdy as DH and EE at 1st base whenever Farrell gets sick of Lind. Vladdy is almost as cooked as the New Jersey tanning mom, but he’ll still scare more pitchers than Lind would, especially against lefties.

      One can only dream that the Phils wouldn’t mind taking Lind in a package as they need a first baseman with Howard injured. Mayberry isn’t the long-term answer for them and Lind would be a more palatable option for Phillies fans than some prospect when they think they still have the pitching staff to make a run for the playoffs. Yeah, keep dreaming.

  27. When was the last time AA made a move that he was rumoured to be a part of before hand. His moves are ninja like, and come out of no where.

    Therefore this move wont happen.

  28. HALLADAY REDUX

    • i’m thinking that if the phillies don’t turn it around htis year, Halladay *definitely goes in the hall of fame with a jays hat.

      go mets.

  29. Won’t happen. Hamels will want more than a 5 year extension and over $100 mil in total salary which the Jays will not hand out. And it wouldn’t make sense to trade the farm for less than a year of Hamels, which is what the Phillies would be looking for.

  30. To repeat a joke I made somewhere else, maybe the enquired about Hamels because they need someone who can hit lefties more reliably than Adam Lind.

    GEDDIT??!!!

    More seriously – if they’re free agents at the end of the year, the Jays are presumably thinking about a ‘rental’ for the stretch if they are in contention. There’s no need to negotiate with the Phillies if they actually want to sign these guys.

  31. wilner would rather call up cecil… it costs less and they have the same stuff. :)

  32. Why do I get the feeling that when the Phillies get old and fall out of contention a free agent Doc Halladay might decide to finish his career with the Jays as a contending club. I’m not saying it will happen, but who knows the future.

    And wouldn’t that be interesting if it did occur: Halladay returns to Toronto when it’s a contending ballclub, perhaps with the players the Blue Jays acquired for him in the trade that helped re-build the club into a team on the verge of doing something special. That would be a cool angle when you think about it. But it’s not going to happen for a few years, if it does.

  33. Great, now we’re going to have two Brett Cecils.

  34. In retrospect, there were tons of rumours about Rasmus. We just didn’t think we could get him for so little.

  35. Meh…soft throwing lefty going from the NL to the AL East? Potentially signing a 9 figure contract at 6 years or more?

    Pass. That’s got Barry Zito written all over it. I’d take Victorino though boy!

  36. i want Jason Hammel

  37. 1. Does Hamels have a no trade clause? And if so
    2. Would he waive it to come to Toronto? And if so
    3. Would the Phillies want Drabek or D’arnaud back?

  38. Not to freakout, but after 19 years of being an afterthought, it is fun to see Toronto as a “contender”.

  39. Given Hamels’ “old school” disdain for Bryce Harper, it would be quite comical to see how he handles being in a clubhouse with the AL version of Bryce Harper (in terms of swagger/douchebagginess combined with major league inexperience) #neeeeeeeeja

  40. Just to have a thought process in another angle (if not done yet), why would the Jays trade top prospects for 3 months of Hammels anyway? It just doesn’t make sense as Anthopoulos has always stated he want’s sustained success – a statement I firmly believe AA believes in. Hammels only provides 3-4 months of success, success that isn’t guaranteed in the AL East. Also, if they do trade for him, would the Jays be able to extend him for less money than what he could get in free agency? I find it unlikely.

    The whole concept just doesn’t work me thinks.

    • I think the assumption is that Anthoupolos would only do a deal if he could sign Hamels to a contract extension as part of the deal. Otherwise, you are right, the deal doesn’t make much sense.

  41. Jays are probably not getting Hamels but it is great to see AA is trying to contend AA is probably trying to find a SP we can get we’ll have a legit 5 with Romero, Morrow, Drabek, Alvarez and ???? It would be exciting to get Hamels a great lefty.

  42. 133 comments already. I do believe that constitutes a freakout.

  43. This is not what I signed up for.

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