More Lawrie Fallout

Well, that was fun last night, huh? Nothing quite like piling stupid on top of stupid on top of stupid, which we did around here, as umpire Bill Miller made two bad calls, Brett Lawrie lost his fucking meat-head mind, a human-shaped pile of excrement tossed a beer at Miller, and commenters bent over backwards to moronically defend one particular side of this from bad old Parkes and his telling it 100% exactly like it is. It’s amazing to me that it needs to be said, again, but holy fuckballs, Miller’s calls do not justify Lawrie’s actions, some fucking laughably misplaced notion of “passion” doesn’t justify Lawrie’s actions, and if there’s anybody to be upset at, maybe it’s the fucking concrete-skulled fuckhead who just took away one of of his team’s best players for upwards of ten games because he wasn’t man enough to restrain himself from raging like a six-year-old– and it’s entirely irrelevant whether his frustration was justified or not.

Oh, but how dare we try to spoil a good batch of all-direction venom and despicable behaviour with our entirely appropriate reaction, huh?

“The so-called ‘Drunk Jays Fans’ chastise booing, call justified frustration ‘shameful’, and no doubt have their judging fingers in the air when there’s a little hooliganism at the game,” says one particular fucking moron in last night’s comments, who doesn’t seem to comprehend that drunk doesn’t mean dumb as all goddamn fuck. “These guys are no better than the Rogers-employed Buck Martinez who has to obsequiously pretend like the calls were ‘questionable’ and not just the piles of shit that anyone with two eyes could see that they were. Passionless sell-outs!! Especially Parkes, he’s just a turd.”

But- but- but- but I came here to have my stupid, vile, emotional, knee-jerk, transparently homer-ish reaction endorsed! Now you’re telling me I shouldn’t think like a piece festering garbage???


But there’s good news! You can all go commiserate with Wilner if you really, seriously, actually want to fucking pretend that Miller’s calls were any worse than ones you could find in just about any game– or earlier that game, in the Jays favour!– or that there isn’t a major problem with a player throwing his helmet so violently at the feet of the umpire in a blind rage.

Good luck with that, and now here’s what the sane world is saying about it…



Wilner adds this schedule-related bit of good-ish news…

The Jays don’t visit New York, where the commissioner’s office is, until after the All-Star break.


Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star points out that Miller will be working the Jays series against the Yankees that starts tonight, and sympathizes a little with Lawrie, as he seems to be of the mind that Miller’s called strike three was a lot higher than it really was.

Stephen Brunt of the Globe and Mail tells the Jays that it’s time to grow up.

As always, there’s some nice, dignified discussion of the incident at Baseball Think Factory, underneath their link to Big League Stew’s piece on it.

Also as always, at Getting Blanked, Ryan Oakley knocks it out of the park, arguing that robot umpires are not the answer.

And Parkes dives back in, this time heading for the nuts and bolts, and showing how absolutely in-line with some of his earlier calls the second-last strike to Lawrie was, according to Pitch F/X. (Still bad, mind you, just maybe not mind-blowingly fuck-you bad.)

The video isn’t up yet, but you can hear the Lawrie-fied edition of today’s Getting Blanked Show on iTunes or by downloading the mp3 here. (Bonus Joe Carter talk in our discussion of RBIs during the Stat Learnin’ segment!)

Ben Linbergh of Baseball Prospectus (Paywall’d) shows how Jose Molina “framed” Lawrie with his catching skills (see what I just did there?). As does Chris St. John of Steal of Home (not paywall’d!).

Extra Base Hit wonders what the fuck Lawrie would have to do to have Jays fans turn on him.

“It’s one of the accepted unwritten rules of the game that a player does not show up an umpire and Miller wouldn’t be the first umpire to send a message to a young player,” writes Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail, adding that “Lawrie’s post-game response in the Blue Jays clubhouse was properly measured if not exactly over-flowing with contrition.”

John Sickels weighs in at Minor League Ball and gets it absolutely right: “the guy with the bat and the helmet absolutely must stay in control of his emotions, even if he’s being baited.”

Mop Up Duty gets into some heavy duty heat maps to check out Bill Miller’s not-very-good night.

The Tao of Stieb would like to see John Farrell maybe have a sit-down with his young, hot-headed star.

And lastly, just because I don’t want to leave it up to frothing commenters to actually click on the link to see this, here’s the strike zone plot for last night…

Comments (185)

  1. He’s young and immature so hopefully he learns from this. People are getting way too worked up about it. (Maybe this means he has to wait until the 2nd ballot to get into the Hall of Fame?!?) No doubt the ball washing will continue unabated. What I found much more offensive last night was the defense in the 7th behind Alvarez. ****UGH****

  2. Players charge umpires all the time, all he has to do is not throw anything in the direction of the umpire or anyhting at all.

  3. That Wilner tidbit about appeals can’t be legit, can it?

    They’re not going to reduce the suspension to zero, so wouldn’t they just make him fly to New York on a game day and fly him back? Hell, it’s like an hour and a half flight each way, for fuck’s sake. It’s entirely conceivable for him to fly to New York in the morning, have his hearing, fly back to Toronto and be back at the ballpark for batting practice at 5 PM/

    Failing that, there’s no reason he couldn’t go to New York on the next off-day.

    • Putting a player on two flights before a game makes more sense to you than waiting until he’s in New York?

      • If you’re the MLB office, how does it make less sense than to wait for 2 full months before an appeal is heard?

        It’s not like he’d be flying across the country twice. These guys are on bus rides longer than that before and after some spring training games.

        • Because it’s a 162 game season and he’ll be punished at some point during it. 5 games now or 5 games later – does it matter?

          You should also go through security into or out of the States sometime. You won’t be rarin’ to sock some dingers!

          • Canada’s worse than the US.

          • It does matter when the games are… I’d rather Lawrie miss 5 games against the worst team in the league than against the best. Obviously he can’t control exactly when the suspension happens, but it definitely makes a difference

          • Both wilner and davidi are now tweeting that the appeal will likely take place next week via teleconference.

    • Cant they just do it over the phone? Like really, if its that big of an issue, just skype the damn thing

  4. great post Stoeten. here’s one Jays’ fan that’s appreciative of the common sense and decency coming from you, Parkes and Drew on this.

    what the hell?! did i just suggest that the Drunk Jays are defenders of decency? for the love of all that is holy, what has the world come to?

    (but seriously, good on you for calling Lawrie out on this)

  5. What does Lawrie have to do for Jays fans to turn on him? My heart grew three sizes for Rauch the day he went hulk, and I don’t see how this is any different.

  6. I’m amazed that so many eeedtiots on here defended the “passion” of Lawrie. Lawrie crossed the from passion to idiocy by taking his bat and glove out of the lineup for 10 games. He let his ego get in the way and hurt his team in the process.

    • Lawrie was wrong and will pay but you can’t ignore (a) that his helmet throw was not intended to be at the ump and (b) he was calm after the first blown call, (c) the second one was nearly just as bad, and (d) it was true heat of the moment – it isn’t even comparable IMO to Rauch who had his whole jersey ripped off trying to get at the ump; Lawrie blew up and then mostly let Farrell take over.

      If it was any less prominent player it would get very little attention beyond the (rightful) suspension.

      He was wrong and will get a suspension. He is not however a childish prima donna asshole satanist whatever just because of one heated blowup.

      • I think that I stated he acted like an idiot…..I’m not entirely sure how that goes to asshole satanist. (A) Yes, he didn’t throw his helmet at the ump, but he still acted like tool. (B) he was as calm but definitely being a tad cocky. (C) he should have swung at anything close with 2 strikes (and it was closer than the first blown call). (D) Comparing it something else that was wrong doesn’t make it right.

      • ummm…sorry, but Lawrie did not ‘mostly let Farell take over’. Farell had to physically get in b/n the two…and Lawrie was still trying to launch himself at the ref. Not sure what you were watching. And no, the helmet wasn’t intended to be thrown at the ref, but it was thrown to within a few feet of him, and there is no excuse for that. I love Lawrie, but this is the kind of incident that will/can affect how umps call the Jays down the road, and there is no excuse for it.

    • I think you’re comfusing the care to win with ego. Miller made the wrong call, possibly twice, when the game was on the line and Lawrie wasn’t having any of it. You can’t fault him for blowing up.

      However, maybe throwing the helmet in another direction would have been a smarter idea.

  7. Stoeten, you should realize that the top and bottom of the strike zone by that plot is an approximation. I.e. for very tall hitters it would be longer, for shorter hitters it is shorter.

    That makes the final strike 3 call actually higher than it shows in that plot. Please understand the facts before making posts like these. Thanks.

    • I understand this, thanks. Doesn’t change a thing I’ve said.

      • It kind of does change the narrative of what you and Parkes have been saying. By constantly showing the misleading Brooksbaseball plots you are both making it seem as though the third strike call was a questionable call instead of the terrible/vindictive call that it was. According to mlbgameday data, Lawrie’s strike zone tops out at 3.26 ft, not the 3.5 ft the Brooksbaseball graphic shows. So instead of that pitch being an inch or so too high as you guys are leading people to believe, it was really about 4 inches above Lawrie’s strike zone. Lawrie was out of line, but so was Miller. Give all the facts boys.

  8. I didn’t bother commenting on Parkes’ post last night because I was too busy reading the amazing comments. I agreed with what he said, though, which is actually pretty rare for me. Parkes was right; Lawrie behaved like a child, and a fan throwing beer on an umpire is never justifiable.

    I was amazed by the comments I read. I’m shocked that people actually believe Lawrie’s actions were perfectly acceptable. But even those misguided enough to believe that should also be smart enough to realize that (a) Lawrie will be suspended for what he did, so it hurts the team, and (b) this won’t do Lawrie or the Jays any favours when it comes to umpire relations in future games. For those reasons among many others, it is unacceptable.

    People take the name of this blog too literally, I think. There are people who think this blog should be a gathering place for morons who think it’s okay to get hammered and throw beer at umpires, or to throw helmets in their direction when you disagree with their calls. That’s not passion for the game and the home team. That’s idiocy.

  9. The media and blogs are overreacting even worse than Lawrie himself, get over it and stop chastising everybody…

  10. Typical Stoeten. Blindly defending Parkes.

    • Well, Stoeten’s a good guy. Always mopping up the messes his friend makes.

    • Something you should be very grateful for considering that the only reason anyone sees your drivel is that he moved djf to thescore

  11. Those on both sides of this argument need to chill out.

    Lawrie-homers: This was a massive overreaction, it was knuckleheaded. He deserves a suspension and there’s nothing to like about yesterdays display.

    Lawrie-scorners: You’re talking about a 22 year old ball player who plays close to the edge day-in and day-out. Shit fuckin happens when you play that way, either he’ll learn from it or he won’t.

  12. Stoeten nails it.

  13. I’ll start off by saying that I dont condone what Lawrie did one bit, I’m glad he snapped, but I wish he didn’t throw his helmet. However, I don’t get why this blog and Parkes are shitting on him and his actions, I do not recall you being so serious about an issue last year when Rauch almost ate an umpire,, and Rauch’s actions seemed far more extreme given that it took a lot longer for him to be restrained.

    Also why are you shitting all over the guy who threw the beer. Granted it was a stupid move, it was also sort of awesome in the same light. I wouldnt have done it myself but its one of those ah he deserved it kinda dealies.

    I just don’t get why Parkes and yourself felt it was so important to take a stance against Lawrie. Absolutely he made a stupid decision, absolutely it was over the top, and no one should defend him, but I dont see the sense making him look worse than he already did.

    he’ll be suspended, and life will go on.

    • Rauch didn’t throw anything that hit the umpire, for one. It’s a different story without the helmet– still bad, but not as bad. And Rauch wasn’t going to get suspended, or… fuck, if he did, who would have cared? He wasn’t as crucial to the club, so this is a much more important event.

      For two, you honestly expect me to explain to you why it’s idiotic to throw a beer at an umpire?

      • absolutely not, I know why its idiotic. but you can’t sit there and honestly say you didn’t smile when you saw that..

        I just think its an extreme to call him a pile of shit. I’m not the defending the guy but i wouldnt castracize him either.

        Funny enough though, I’ve been coming to this blog for a long long time, and reading your comments on the beer throw actually confused me. I don’t know you personally, but I was actually expecting you to call it awesome as opposed to emberrasing. Not sure why exactly, so please don’t take offense to it.

        • Speaking for myself, I have never been impressed with someone throwing a beer on anyone for any reason. Especially someone throwing it from a crowd. Doing it from a crowd is the kind of gutless act that people commit when they’re desperate for attention from idiots who think that kind of thing is cool.

          And I knew Stoeten would hate it. Haven’t you noticed? He hates stupidity.

          • I guess I don’t feel as strongly about the issue. I mean that umpire deserved some of it.

            I’m far more upset over what Lawrie did because it impacts the team as they will lose one of a very few useful bats in the lineup and will have to play someone inferior at 3B.

            What the fan did doesn’t hurt the team at all, and its not like Miller didn’t deserve a swift kick in the chops. Was it douchey? I guess ya, but I wouldnt go as far as to call him a pile of shit.

        • “Castracize”? WTF?

    • Well said.

  14. Perfect post. Let the march of the neanderthals begin.

  15. Also, everyone should check out the mopupduty article.. by far the best written and researched on the lawrie incident.

  16. Is it just me, or have DJF posters gotten dumber and more trollish in the past year? Parkes could have worded it in a more Jays-sympathetic way, but no one in their right mind could say he was wrong.

  17. Everything up to him throwing the helmet was not only was fucking great. just should not have thrown the helmet.

    now have we figured out yet if a roster spot opens if he gets suspended? I dont think you get that spot..

    • they opened up a spot today anyways..

      I really hope that they take this opportunity to bring up Snider.

      Snider in RF, Bautista at 3B./

      Our current left fielder is slugging under .400 with suspect defense… If that was Snider puttin up that performance he would have been sent down already. . and if someone replies to this with a comment of his batting average I will throw my helmet in their general direction.

  18. re: Robot Umps

    I don’t want to see the ump behind the plate disappear, but, that doesn’t stop me from thinking that I can call a better game from my bloody laptop. We ARE in the 21 millionth or whatever century.

    Can’t we give the umps a little helping hand? I think some brilliant engineer at RIM or Apple or Samsung (or HTC or Microsoft, etc.) should be able to design a wireless device that gives the ump a vibrating indicator if the pitch is in the zone. I’m sure they could work out a system like this that would give the ump the final call (and all the power he craves) but give him an indication that nobody else sees. This would just be an extra tool the ump can use to determine the location of the ball besides his (old-fashioned) eye-balls (and in this case, his emotional reaction to Lawrie trotting off to first before the call was made).

    Lawrie’s reaction was embarassing, but, so was the umps call. I really believe that both calls were deliberately provocative. Because Lawrie is a young, hot-tempered rising star, because he’s on a team with Bautista who never let’s a bad call go without chirping the ump, because he started his walk before the call, Miller made the call against him. If it wasn’t for those three factors, Lawrie would have gotten his base with no controversy.

    I say, give the umps a tool to help remove this emotional aspect out of these potentially crucial calls.

    • you cant do both..i.e. have a technologic tool that tells you whether it was a ball or strike AND still give the ump final call. this will lead to a culture of umps that completely disregard the info vs a second subset that does not.

      the technology is so easily there. in fact, you could put micro sensors in each players uniforms at the knee and lower armpit so you would have an individualized strike zone in terms of height.

      • Every night, they can review their calls that went against the sensor. If an ump is out of sync more than the rest, MLB officials can sit them down and give them a talking to.

        I was thinking about the micro sensor idea too.

  19. I’v had the pleasure of reading you blog for over 5 years now and although I will continue to enjoy your aggregation of Blue Jay related links and statistical analysis, I really do question your fandom at this point. Shitting on Lawrie and calling him names after he had a bad night really makes me wonder. Just seems like you resent him cause his the kinda jock that would have bullied you in high school.

    Btw, Brunt hasn’t worked for the Globe in eight months.

    • Naw, Stoeten doesn’t like Lawrie because he has an opposite maple boner. A maple kick to the nuts? Remember how he was so up in arms about a maple leaf at the home opener?

    • don’t call someone I don’t know names! its not nice, but here is a name I’m going to call you.. as I come to your blog and support your income.

      no need for that. If you disagree with him, argue the point, not him personally

    • Same reason they hate hockey and hockey fans.

    • Fandom does not equal willful blindness to the poor choices made by the hometown athletes.

  20. maybe the lawrie haters would rather have creampuffs like rios,wells, hill, lind who just take strike three and hang there head and mope back to the dugout

    • to be fair, if rios,wells, hill and lind had to argue every strike 3 call the games would be 5 hours

      • fuckin brilliant reply. i will still be laughing hours from now. thanks for making my day

    • +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

    • Riiiiiight, because it’s definitely an either/or choice here. Gotcha.

    • I don’t think there are any Lawrie haters around these parts. People just wish he would play a little smarter. Does anyone want to see him burn the fuck out after two years? Or jump 40 feet into a mob of players, break his ankle and never play the same way? or bounce an object off the ground while throwing a temper tantrum (you can’t deny that’s what it was), have it come back and hit him in the eye, blind him and have him never play again? Or for those of you who love “oldey-timey-baseball”, show up the wrong team and get Dickie Thonned? Do you not see that playing balls out no thinking has risks associated with it? If he played at 90% of his current 100,000,000,000%, he’d still be the highest energy player in the game, and maybe might play out that extension everyone wants so badly to give him.

  21. So apparently if you have anything even slightly negative to say, or something that is perceived to be slightly negative, then you are anti-Jays. Seriously people. It’s OK not to blindly back the team 100% without ever questioning. George Bush salutes you.

    • I am having trouble reconciling “slightly negative” with “fucking meathead” and “fucking concrete-skulled fuckhead”. Little help?

      • Because if you’re not in agreement with Parkes and/or Stoeten, then you’re against them and therefore a “fucking meathead”.

        George Bush salutes you too. :)

        • Thanks for missing the point. My way or the highway!!!

          • Wasn’t responding to your point, TS. Was responding to your (flimsy) argument, which you were using to try and prop up your (weak) point.

  22. I think omar visquel should be suspended.

  23. I think we should bring up Guererro (sp?) and trade Lind for Prince Fielder straight up.

  24. You can’t possibly be naive enough to think it was just the bad calls people are upset over. It’s the fact that it was a power-tripping umpire, once again, turning it into a game within a game and trying to show Lawrie who’s boss. Again, that’s no justification for what Lawrie did, but you’re making it sound like people are upset over two bad calls. Its the bullshit antics that lead to or came with them

    Also, good on ya to point Lawrie “isn’t man enough to _______.” Maybe next you can tell us how he doesn’t play the game the right way

    • This.

      Also, it’s not like everyone on here didn’t realize that he deserves to be suspended. So obviously everyone realized that his actions were wrong; but it was a secondary issue in the minds of Jays fans to the vindictive calls they had just witnessed.

      So yeah, suspend Lawrie, yeah that sucks and it hurts the team. Yes, we all wish (Lawrie included I bet ) that the helmet had of been aimed more to the side. But other then that, I don’t see what the big deal is. A young athlete got emotional in the heat of the moment? Alert the presses!!!! Come on guys.

  25. As the “fucking moron” (always so eloquent, Stoeten) scribe who wrote the quoted part of this post, I will say this:

    1) The quote was taken out of context. Mine was in fact a reply to a very apt point made by another commenter that suggested that someone who writes for a blog called “Drunk Jays Fans” should perhaps not be the first person to point fingers at someone who does something ill-advised when they are, in fact, drunk. I’m sure even Stoeten and Parkes did some crazy things when drunk, holed up in the other’s apartment after a few beers. You have likely matured by now or grown out of that phase of your life, but it’s likely you weren’t always so gloriously perfect.

    2) I agree that what Lawrie did was stupid, and it’ll obviously hurt the team more than help it (as Jamie Campbell tried several times to suggest it would after last night’s game by “firing up” the other players). What I was disgusted with was the way in which the article was written. Let’s not forget that the kid is 22 years old, that he does play w/ a lot of fire in his heart (and other cliches), and that it is that fire that makes fans love him, partially because it’s been largely absent from this team for some time.

    To defend myself, I am not a fucking moron no matter how many times Stoeten disagrees with me. It’s called differing opinion. I am not a fan of hockey despite Stoeten and his defenders incessantly suggesting that anyone that talks of “passion” and the like must be. And finally, it’s clear that Lawrie made a bad move and I am sure he’d be the first to admit that; but lighten up, for christ’s sake, and stick to your point instead of the hyperbolic shit that was written after last night’s mess.

    Whatever, thanks for the shout out I guess.

  26. You’re right, Stoeten. Lawrie’s actions are indefensible. The biggest shame of this whole thing for me is that he didn’t either control himself or have his helmet bounce off in another direction. If either of those things had happened, right now we’d all be discussing a pair of lousy calls that possibly cost a struggling team a chance to win a ballgame.

    Bad calls made by accident don’t make me mad. Umpires are human and human error’s a part of the game. It happens. But these didn’t appear to be bad calls made in error, they appeared to be calls made out of spite. I’m not Bill Miller, so I can’t fairly say what he was thinking, but that’s definitely what it looked like.

    Everything after that I’m not going to defend (nor should anyone), but I can certainly understand the anger. Can’t you?

    Anyhow, that’s my 2 cents. Keep up the fine work.

    • Excellent rational post. Reminds me of the pre-Score days. Let me be the first to advocate for some kind of literacty test that’ll weed out infirm knuckle draggers.

  27. keithlaw ‏@keithlaw
    The solution is not to suspend Brett Lawrie for ten or twenty games. The solution is to get the damn calls right.

  28. Funny part is Miller is going to be at 3B tonight lol.

  29. Great commentary! Very mature and very responsible!

    You should get a job working for a big corporation!

  30. Right. Anyone with another point of view is either wrong, a neanderthal or a hockey fan no matter how eloquently they present their argument.

    The thing that really chaps my ass is that this very blog went and threw around the word “retard” like it was nothing, but has the sac to point fingers at someone else for being childish or unprofessional.

    I guess that’s what you get for being able to push the “publish” button.

    • +1
      So true and well said.

    • yup

    • Agreed 100%. I don’t stand on either side of this Lawrie issue. I understand where both sides are coming from and I can sympathize with or stand behind points on both sides of the argument.

      The problem here is that the authors of this blog seem to believe that taking a nuanced, reflective big-picture view is the proper way in which to be a fan or to watch a baseball game and that having impulsive reactions immediately after an event is an improper way to be a fan or watch a baseball game. God forbid that people enjoy a baseball game and follow a baseball team in different ways.

      Our esteemed writer’s predictable daily “fucking morons” bellitlement is just as much a tired “Get off my lawn!” rant as when some crochety old sportswriter dumps on Sabermetrics and/or bloggers.

      This blog is at it its best when it’s providing unique information, providing novel statistical analysis, and taking interesting angles on issues or linking to interesting articles about the aforesaid, so that I as a baseball fan and an intelligent human being can better inform my own opinions of my team and baseball in general. The site is at its worst when posts like this come up, and somebody is trying to tell me what I should think.

      • Absolutely agree. As I said in a follow-up comment on the initial post, they’ve become glorified, baseball-speciifc, shock jocks. I still read DJF (not GB) for the analysis, but the people behind the analysis are dreadful (well, Stoeten and Parkes anyway; Drew is very good and also seems to have a lot of class, which is refreshing).

        Obviously both Brumfield Wants Noise and I are hockey-loving, knuckle-dragging neanderthals for having this opinion or any that is contradictory to theirs, but thank god we live in a world where people can debate intelligently without being called fucking morons for having a differing opinion. Oh, wait …

      • Great post. I’m getting tired of these sanctimonious “we’re right, you’re wrong posts” that seem to seem to appear in the wake of issues such as these.

  31. First off, I fail to understand the relevance of the beer tossing. Lawrie didn’t throw a beer at the umpire- a fan did. Rationalizing an opinion by combining two more or less unrelated events makes no sense. I think we can all agree that throwing anything at an umpire at any time is wrong. Attempting to link the idiocy of a fan with Lawrie’s reaction is also wrong.

    Second, Lawrie threw his batting helmet at the ground. He did not throw it at Miller. It bounced off the ground and hit Miller and that is unfortunate and comes with consequences. As an adult he will deal with the consequences. If you and Parkes have raised children and consider yourselves experts on child psychology then please feel free to continue with your references.

    Third, one of the best parts of baseball is the element of human error. There is nothing that creates passion like the feeling that an umpire is deliberately trying to screw over your team. Professional wrestling has used this angle forever and ever with great success.

    The problem is that there are three basic ways to rationalize the difference between strikes and balls and called strikes and balls; the umpire’s strike zone differs from the actual strike zone, the umpire made a mistake, or the umpire had an agenda.

    My sense is that Miller had an agenda on this one. Usually when an umpire makes a bad call he will give the batter the benefit of the doubt on the next pitch. Of course… that is just my opinion.

  32. Why would Lawrie receive upwards of ten games, when that fool last year who INTENTIONALLY bumped an umpire only got five games. Lawrie spiked the helmet and it hit the umpire, not like he threw it directly at Miller’s knees.

  33. While Lawrie’s actions can’t be condoned and he deserves a 5 game suspension, the umpiring was completely fucking ridiculous in the bottom of the 9th, in a one run game. I don’t think many of the game’s premier names would have just walked back to the dugout, either (helmet throwing aside). John Farrell was totally right when he said after the game that Miller took the bat right out of Lawrie’s hands.

    Keith Law also put on twitter that if the umpire had gotten the calls right, the incident wouldn’t have happened. Miller’s decision to massage his ego and prove a point at a key at-bat in the game is awful for the integrity of the game.

    Having said all that, the funniest thing I’ve seen on the incident is from Dirk Hayhurst:!/TheGarfoose/status/202778975519510528

    • Klaw didn’t necessarily say that Miller was showing him up. He just said that he missed the calls. Miller consistently calls srikes in the regions those pitches were thrown into. He will lose out on All Star and Post Season assignments. This is not an isolated incident. The shortage of up and coming major league umpires (much like hockey refs) and their union’s strength means, unfortunately, that Miller, along with Davidson, Joyce and all the other old, crappy umps, will be around for a while. Hate the system? Become an Ump!

  34. At least the baseball universe is talking about the Blue Jays again….its ’93 all over again

  35. If Lawrie waits in the box on that 3-1 pitch and doesn’t Charlie-Hustle down the line…I call it a ball.
    But he showed me up, so I called it a strike.
    Who fucking cares anyway? It’s Canada. I would never pull that shit in New York or Philly. I’m not an idiot.

    Btw….even if he walked, Rasmus would have just grounded into a double play anyways.

    • since when is takin off down 1B on a clear ball 4 showing up an umpire?

      also the rasmus next AB completely changes,

      • Since Bill Miller arrived in town, that’s when.

        And don’t kid urself. Rasmus would have either grounded out or struck out or let go of the bat while swinging, fatally striking Joey, Edwin and Ricky all at once.

  36. Whenever I’m confronted with the questionable actions of a Jay, I find it’s useful to ask “What would I be saying if Dustin Pedroia did this?” Chances are, I would be none to pleased with Mr. Pedroia. Nor with a Boston fan who threw a beer at the ump.

    I find this little counter-factual helps put my homerish impulses in check.

    On an unrelated note, I’d be curious if the ump makes the same calls on a rookie Pedroia behaving in the same manner at a game in Fenway. I’m not so sure.

    • Same Ump made the exact same calls in a game at Fenway earlier this year against Cody Ross (Red Sox). Caused kerfuffle. Why does my browser acknowledge kerfuffle and not bloggers or muppet as words. Fucking spellcheck. (also not arecognized word)

  37. It really doesn’t matter if Lawrie was right or wrong about the calls. As it happens he was dead right. Those calls were total shit especially the final one where the ump decided to show Lawrie up for showing him up. But here’s the thing: yelling and pointing and screaming–not to mention pitching his helmet–was only gonna end one way. Because the ump has the power and Lawrie has no power in that situation. So does he yell and scream or does he take it quietly. If the former, chances are he will not get a lot of mercy from other umps and his problems might continue for a while even if he doesn’t get suspended. If he takes it quietly, it’s possible that the next batter might get a ‘compensatory’ call from the ump. Lawrie’s got to learn to keep his shit together and he’s not the only one on the team right now that should be doing that.

    [mikewilner]By the way, Stoeten, the possessive ‘its’ does not have an apostrophe.[/mikewilner]

    • Agreed but I think Brett Lawrie is the first guy to tell you that throwing a temper tantrum doesn’t have anything but negative consequences for yourself and your team. He displays that knowledge by holding his tongue and keeping his temper in check nearly every time that he’s perceived to be slighted by an umpire’s call. If Brett acted this volatile more consistently then there’d be an issue and more analysis would be warranted, but he hasn’t. This is why I feel the context is more important than the man and I wish this was explored better in reaction pieces to the incident.

  38. Sorry what the hell is with people saying he’ll get 10 games?? Jays fans can be so self loathing. Roberto Alomar spat in an umpire’s face and got five for it. The only other helmet throwing suspension i can think of was two. But a Blue jays spiking his helmet on the ground gets ten??? In what universe does that make sense??

  39. The think that most people (except for Klaw, apparently) is that the one missing factor is the utter fucking lack of umpire accountability. When was the last time an ump was demoted/fired for incompetence, or even suspended. If any sort of feedback or criticism is given them by the head of umpiring, we never hear of it. Without excusing Lawrie’s actions, if players/coaches knew that umps were promoted/demoted based on performance (y’know, kind of like the players are) then they’d probably be less likely to completely lose their shit when a call gets blown.

    • amen

    • Let’s be clear — Lawrie would lose his shit no matter what. That’s who he is. He needs to tone it down.

      I agree, however, that maybe fans would take it a bit easier when there’s a blown call. Wait. No. They probably wouldn’t.

  40. I’m beginning to realize that I come to this site to read the comments rather than the initial posts….

  41. My biggest issue last night was Yahoo’s Tim Brown tweet that it compared to Delmon Young.
    “Tim Brown‏@TBrownYahoo
    Really, how was Lawrie’s behavior any different than Delmon Young’s bat throw? Delmon got 50 from Int’l League.”

    You could go into 95 different views of Lawrie throwing the helmet down and argue that it was being slammed down in Miller’s direction. But you could also argue that it could have gone anywhere and missed him completely. How that compares to Delmon Young who threw a BAT directly at the Ump is beyond me.

  42. I’m not sure I should continue reading Blue Jays blogs that are filled with such an obvious disdain for the team’s fans. Here’s some interesting reading to brush up on your blogging skills:

    • the one thing I would say is to remember that Parkes and Stoeten grew up together and have been friends and co-bloggers for years, and read a few of the horrific things that some of the muppets were saying in the comments. Parkes is often a little insufferable in the comments, but Stoeten’s normally pretty reasonable (if obscene). However it’s understandable that he got a little snarky (read furious) at some of the stuff going around.

  43. I’d like to point out, in case it has been missed by anyone, that Lawrie was ejected from the game before he reached for his helmet. Watch the video, he crouches down in disbelief, turns toward Miller, says maybe 3 or 4 syllables and gets thrown. Then he goes over the top and fires his helmet. Itchy trigger-finger by Miller there.

    He should get less of a suspension than Alomar did. Three or four games.

    • there is no question that Miller was attempting to teach lawrie a lesson. Brett should still have handled it better

      • Of course he should have. He should have left the helmet on the head. I have no problem with him throwing a few choice words at the umpire, but no equipment.

  44. I think Stoeten gets more upset by the commenters reactions than anything that actually happens in the MLB. I mean, I’m glad he’s got a good handle on the subject he covers…but I can’t remember seeing such an eloquent and interesting blogger get so effectively trolled by identity-less slopeheads.

  45. Does anybody know or have an idea when the MLB will announce the suspension? All the speculation is annoying.

  46. Does any of this happen if Farrell Really admonishes Bautista for his reactions to umps throughout this season? Given Lawrie’s general demeanor, probably. Still sets a bad example for the kids.

    • +1

    • Yes, because treating professional athletes like children is ALWAYS the answer.

      • When they behave like children it IS the answer.

        • It most definitely isn’t. Contrary to oft-perpetuated sports mythology, the manager has very little influence on the character of his team. The players are individuals, fully formed adults, and they’ll behave however they behave–no little reprimand from a manger will change that. You’re not going to bench or seriously discipline a player who has been among the league’s best since 2010 to make some silly esoteric point about setting an example. Bautista has always been an emotional player and no one seems to mind when things are going well for him.

      • it’s not like he’s a grizzled veteran of 40 or something… he is a kid.

        • My point was about Bautista, but Lawrie is also an adult. He plays a certain way and conducts himself a certain way, and I suspect that nothing Farrell says is going to change that.

    • Yeah, but Bautista is an emotional player, Lawrie should know he is to remain gritty.

  47. What seems to have gotten missed in all this, for what it’s worth, is that Lawrie argued after the call, but he didn’t blow his top and throw his helmet until after he was ejected. It all happened very fast. But he didn’t throw his helmet immediately after the bad call.

  48. I’d rather Lawrie do this once, get a short suspension, and never do it again than watch Jose piss and moan for every called strike.

    He threw a helmet, calm the fuck down. He’ll get suspended and he deserves it but my God are some panties all bunched up about this.

  49. Lawrie shouldn’t have thrown his helmet at the ground in the direct vicinity of Miller. Unfortunately he did, it hit him, and that contact comes with consequences. He should face a suspension of minor length for that.

    With that said, the number of people arguing Lawrie was completely in the wrong because of baseball’s vaunted “unwritten rulebook”, is nauseating. The umpire intentionally threw a pivotal at-bat, in order to “teach” Lawrie a lesson, for prematurely walking towards first on a called strike that was in the same place as a called ball earlier in the SAME AT-BAT. What does this have to do with Olney’s tweet that Miller reviews pitchfx data? It’s kind of irrelevant when you’re intentionally making the wrong call.

    Throwing the beer is not acceptable, though I freely admit I smirked when I saw it. It was cathartic, though I don’t condone it.

    The rest of Lawrie’s freakout I enjoyed, even if it costs him some borderline calls for a while. Miller was abusing his power, and I’m glad Lawrie didn’t just accept it. I’m glad we are having a discussion all over the internet today about what unprofessional, small men many MLB umpires are.

    So yeah – give him a suspension for the helmet contact. And charge the idiot who threw the beer. Actions have consequences. The rest was brilliant.

  50. Why is it just an accepted fact in baseball that umpires get to “teach rookies lessons” and if someone tries to “show them up” (which isn’t what happened here. It wasn’t like that was a really close strike that Lawrie took off on. He just assumed the umpire would make a really easy, and correct, call) then they get to pay them back? There’s no other sport where this happens even occassionally, let alone be an accepted treatment of players.

  51. this site has changed you guys are too corporate, i hope Brett never changes… i need to find some really drunk jays fans… See ya! #posers

  52. One of you is quoted in the Deadspin article about Miller. Well done, and nice spelling.

  53. You and Stoeten have officially crossed the line between bloggers and main stream media. Enjoy the posh offices and the fun times with your buddies but you need to stop pretending you’re not part of the establishment.

    The two of you plus Drew have taken more delight in calling everyone else idiots more now than ever before. It’s the fans that flocked to your blog and ultimately led to your rise to the MSM – just like Lawrie, don’t forget where you came from man – it’s starting to smell entitled in here.

    • Or you and Parkes – whatever.

    • They’re calling more people idiots because their popularity is bringing in more idiots.

      • Had you ever even visited the DJF blogspot? There’s a reason the commenters there were coined the “monkey army”. It was a cesspool, and kind of awesome. Stoeten very rarely went one on one with commenters like he does now though. (But he presumably had another full-time gig then.)

        I don’t like what Lawrie did, I wish Parkes had spent a little time acknowledging the ump’s role in his post last night, but the vitriol Stoeten and Parkes have used to describe him in that post and this one is frankly terrible and unnecessary. He’s not a shitty person because he lost his cool.

    • Very well said.

    • At least the commenters still sound like fans – even the ones I don’t agree with. They still sound like sincere fans. The guy that runs this thing is sounding more and more like an employee.

      • Exactly man – they don’t sound like fans. I’m all for evolution but you gotta own your new self and stop trading on your old one.

  54. Don’t you people know that if you understand WAR and BABIP, it gives you license to rip on your readers for your dissenting comments and ballplayers for ill conceived actions?
    You can refer to a ballplayer as a “the fucking concrete-skulled fuckhead ” and then throw up a Fastmap Strikezone Plot to justify calling your readers ‘stupid’. Come on! Wake the fuck up! How dare some of you have emotional knee-jerk reactions and use this scholarly blog to vent!!!!

    Look there are a few people that believe Lawrie’s actions were justified. Most of us know they weren’t. It was stupid. He will be dealt with by the team and by the league. It is my hope he will learn from this and mature and channel his anger into improving his OPS and WAR so that Stoeten can refer to him as that “the fucking concrete-skulled fuckhead who produces”

  55. If Miller is constantly using PitchFX data to improve then you’d imagine his wrong call rate wouldn’t be nearing 10% over the last 5 seasons, making him one of the worst in the league.

  56. To me, the biggest part of this story that many are ignoring is the fact that LUCK (i.e. bad luck) has a huge part to do with this.

    There is zero evidence to suggest that Lawrie intended for his helmet to hit the umpire. Just because he drinks Red Bulls and plays baseball like a hockey player does not mean he’s going to physically harm an umpire on purpose.

    Remember, Lawrie was taken aback when people suggested he was the type to play through injuries during spring training because of his 110% attitude. There is a tremendous leap in logic to suggest that because he plays the game a certain way he is prone to disrespecting an umpire. Anyone who is arguing this point should provide evidence of him doing so in the past.

    The second key point, in my opinion, is the notion that Miller called the last pitch a strike instead of a ball to show the kid a lesson. We don’t know this to be true either way (though the optics don’t look great), but it’s total BS if that is the case (which it may very well be).

    If Miller intentionally called the last pitch a strike when he knew it was a ball, then he is the one acting like a spoiled child. We don’t know for sure if this is true, but we also have zero evidence to say with CERTAINTY that Lawrie meant to hit Miller because, you know, he likes Red Bulls and plays with energy…

    • Some good points 2010. As you said if Miller was in fact getting back at Lawrie then yes it’s a very petty childish thing to do. Furthermore, if he did it on purpose, then to me he’s subverting the game itself which is probably the worst thing anyone involved with the game could do. If that is the case then he easily deserves his own suspension. Like law enforcement that goes bad they deserve harsher punishment for the trust they break. Funny how there’s no howls of outrage when the game itself is screwed with. Honest mistakes are one thing but to fuck with a situation where there’s no recourse is just wrong.

      That said, was Lawrie dumb to act like he did? Yes because he’s going to cost the team eventually. Was it childish? I’d say overly passionate instead. There was no petulance involved. He didn’t say shit after the first call which was totally ridiculous. If you want an example of petulance you just have to look at Bautista moaning and groaning with every strike called against him.

      People have to remember this is a brand of entertainment. We come to watch players play not have petty umpires show how much of a badass they can be.

      Again hopefully there’s some good to come from all of this and that’s to wake the players and fans up from their general state of apathy.

    • why is “playing baseball like a hockey player” some kind of statement of Brett Lawrie’s godhood? and how exactly is he playing like a hockey player? I haven’t seen him throw a hipcheck on runners rounding third? he doesn’t work a proper curve into his bat? what the fuck is that supposed to mean? and you allusion towards hockey players being more willing to harm an ump on purpose? WTF is that?
      To your second point, I don’t see anyone indicating that because he plays the game “a certain way” he’s more likely to attack an ump.
      to your second “key point” (you’ve already made two distinct, if assholishly stupid, points), we will never know why miller called those pitches the way he did… except that he seems to make the exact same calls all the time (check out the cody ross at bat, at fenway, where he called a red sox batter out on a pitch almost identical to the strike two call). Bill Miller, far from being a childish douche as you folks suggest, seems to be just a (consistently) shitty ump, who likes a little controversy every now and then. It’s ridiculous, but fuck, it happens.
      Brett Lawrie threw a tantrum any mother would have been horrified to see her son throwing in the mall, let alone on national television. It was stupid. He’s been suspended.
      Bill Miller will likely not work the All Star or any playoff games with the way he’s umping this year.
      Sounds fair to me.

  57. The strike call was extremely late and well outside so he wasn’t showing up the umpire.

    I remember Buck and Pat talking about Lawrie changing his approach to become more aggressive since he was getting a lot of questionable strikes called against him, so clearly his frustration on balls and strikes had been mounting for quite a while.
    Two horrible calls in a row (the 2nd was just as bad as the 1st, the F/X counts the top of the strike zone as the letters, so it’s line at the top is higher than even the most generous umpires’ strike zones) culminated with his earlier frustration lead to his blow up.

    The only bad part about his blowup was the helmet toss, getting into the face of the umpire is not childish nor anything that should be frowned upon. The helmet toss was indeed pretty bad, but I don’t think it should be looked at as him having a lot of growing up to do or any of that nonsense. Lawrie is probably what society deems to be a “douchebag”, but he has carried himself very well while in the spotlight and around the game so his private shenanigans shouldn’t be held against him.

  58. A lot of people giving Stoeten and Parkes are hard time here for their opinion. Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own “opinion”. Thing I don’t get is if they are pissing you off so much why the hell are you reading their posts and commenting???? Got to be better ways of spending you time, right? Troll on!

  59. I guess its easy not to be passionate when you can just bandwagon jump and suddenly christen the SF Giants your favorite team just cause they win the World Series, eh Parks. Unfortunately, a lot of fans are loyal and only cheer for the Blue Jays and its been a long fucking 19 years. This season has been a real kick in the nuts so far after the hopes of Spring Training have been dashed by the cold hard reality that yet again we are another fucking .500 team. Lawrie should be suspended but I think if Parks didn’t have the luxury of just suddenly becoming a SF Giants fan and setting the Blue Jays aside then perhaps he would better understand the frustration that many fans are feeling. Getting beat down by Tampa Bay over and over again makes me want to rage and combined with the shit calls from Miller, i wanted to throw a fucking cinder block at him. This entire incident (lawrie freaking and beer throwing at ump) is just a sign of frustration from a fanbase and team that is getting sick of being bent over by the AL East and MLB. You can’t expect Parks to understand that passion so you can’t blast him for being unempathetic. Hipster are too cool to really ever be passionate about a sports team plus when your team runs into a prolonged struggle, you can just anoint yourself a fan of a recent World Series winner because that the Hipster thing to do.

    • +1

    • “. . . but I think if Parks didn’t have the luxury of just suddenly becoming a SF Giants fan and setting the Blue Jays aside . . .”

      We all enjoy that luxury. We’re all free to change who we cheer for, this isn’t some exclusive perk Parks enjoys. You cheer for the Jays because you choose to. The suffering you endure is the result of your own choices. There’s no pity to be had for people who *choose* to torture themselves and just because you choose to endure these frustrations doesn’t entitle anyone to act like a twit (i.e. throwing a beer).

  60. The trolling scourge that infected America is making its way up to Canada!

    Nah, I read SB Nation blogs and there are a few where trolling is actually a well respected art form. The posters and their content is what makes the site fun to read. (and the important part of that, moderators who condone it do so at their own risk)

    Drunk Jays Fans I get is a different animal from the best SB Nation blogs ( as an example, just my opinion being SB Nations best, and a different sport too and a different parent company in a different country). The content is different, the moderators are different. But each is just trying to put an entertaining product for the true fans(if you like a team, you are a fan). Drunk Jays Fans uses a different kind of marinade on the chicken, facts before funny but the humor can still be present too. Like a fine duck l’orange.

    I love my neighbors to the north. You are nothing like the people of Alabama and their obsession over college football, poisoning oak trees and the Paul Finebaum Show. Be lucky you aren’t that.

  61. 4 games only

    Way lighter than I expected.

  62. That was the worst mother fucking blog I’ve ever read on this site…bad enough to make me write my first ever post…….Let’s face it folks what Lawrie did was wrong..plain & simple…but the fact of the matter is this guy is extremely passionate about the game and the blue jays or any other team for that matter need more guys like this playing ball.

    FACE IT….LAWRIE GOT FUCKING HOSED…BADLY….It isn’t just that they’re are and were bad calls made throughout the entire’s the timing of all this that makes it stink worse than a pair of dirty socks…jays just finished handing over the lead, lawrie knows this is most likely his last at bat and he’s gotta get on base to have a chance to tie it back up…he’s up 3-1 in the count and that next pitch is so far outside it not only grazes the far side batters box’s practically in it …but no worries lawrie takes off to first and gets called back

    (This is where everything went wrong..fact is i’m sure he didn’t intend to make the ump look bad on that one but you can’t tell me the ump isn’t thinking fuck you, wanna leave before the call is made better make sure you swing at the next one cuz i’m just itching to sit your ass down now!!)

    …still no worries..he knows he got fucked on that call but lets it go just in time to see ball 4 go by again…..These folks are easy calls..and the ump made a royal fucking mess of it. Keep in mind this game could have just as big of an impact on the playoff race as a game in septemeber…they all count and these two will most likely be neck and neck for at least a wildcard all year…If this is the fucking playoffs that ump doesn’t get a whole lotta work in the next series cuz he fucked up…that simple…they review the umps job too…and it’s easy to tell you it was a HUGE FUCKING FAILURE last night!

    As for the helmet toss….half stupid move to throw it there knowing the ump is that near but still, the helmet takes a bounce the other way and it hits nobody and were not having this conversation today………




  63. I’d be curious to know if the umps actions and the fact that Lawrie through his helmet into the ground first mitigated some of the severity of the 4 game punishment.

  64. Lawrie should have tossed the helmet the other way, plain and simple. But at the same time, I believe that his tantrum was completely justified, minus hitting the ump with his helmet, as those calls were not very good. The third strike was closer than the 2nd, but Lawrie should have been given the benefit of the doubt considering how bad the 1st missed call was. The fact that Miller had the nerve to ring him up on that call shows that he’s a dick! Especially in the 9th inning with a 1 run game. Miller appeared to call those strikes completely out of spite!

    There is no fucking way that Miller makes those calls against the Yankees or Red Sox at home!

    As for Lawrie’s suspension, which is justified as well. I’m thinking 5 games is plenty considering Yadier Molina spit on an ump and only received 5. And I believe Carl Everett, or another ass, head bumped an ump and received 10. To put this helmet throw in the latter category would be unjust. I could see 7 games and have it reduced to 4. But 8-10 as Olney suggests seems a bit much. Not that MLB takes this into consideration, but it would be nice for MLB to look into the shittiness of Miller’s calls before determining any punishment. Lawrie and the Blue Jays were screwed on those calls which is bullshit. I know bad calls are part of the game, but at that crucial point in the game, it’s tough to swallow. Especially considering I don’t think the Yanks and Sox have to deal with calls like that in the 9th.

    • why should he have tossed his helmet at all? It’s ridiculous and dangerous… if he tosses it the other way it could have hit a fan, the on deck player, or bounced back and hit him instead. How are any of these outcomes (including hitting miller) acceptable? Launching projectiles that can hurt people at high rates of travel on national television as a high profile ROLE MODEL is ridiculous.

      That said, I can’t wait to see the first inning tonight.

  65. Lawrie shouldn’t have thrown his helmet. I mean obviously. But as long as we’re not seeing the beginning of a guy with Carl Everett behavior, I’m not really worried about all this. It was a stupid mistake, he’ll miss (hopefully only) a few games, and that’s it.

    I think some people are reacting negatively to Parkes and Stoetens columns because they’re coming across as trying so hard to be so ardently ‘anti-meat head’, that its a bit over the top in its negativity toward Lawrie. I mean, that helmet bounces in a different direction are you really going to write a column suggesting hes not man enough to restrain his emotions?

    Regardless, your overall point that it was a dumb thing to do is obviously right.

    I tend to agree with Keith Laws take however. The more problematic issue here is umpires makes calls for spite.

    (By the way, you could have included Laws take in your roundup, Wilner has essentially the same opinion as Law, and you shit on that. Law is treated with reverence on this blog. You should have included his opinion, or at least you could have shown it the same criticism you gave to Wilner.)

  66. One does not need to condone Lawrie’s actions in order to hold Miller’s actions in contempt. I find it positively laughable to pretend that Miller was absolutely objective in his third-strike call.

    Even so, it’s always a shame to see a team almost overcome their own ineptitude (four errors) to see that potential snuffed out by someone else’s ineptitude (Miller’s absurd strike calls).

  67. Its my turn to swing the lumber and it’s like Casey at the Bat and I see five errant pitches go by. I take my base when some chump behind my says “Brett, so how do you like those balls?” I said pardon? “He says how did you like those balls?” I fuckin snap I fuckin lose it! I distract him with a helmet toss and then deliver a furious hurricane to the solarplexus . “I said is that enough ballsfor you?” Ever since I’ve been the champ.

  68. I don’t think anyone is arguing that Lawrie was in the right (he wasn’t, obviously); I think they’re arguing that you DJF guys can just be sanctimonious dick-heads about a lot of things. You can’t honestly shit on a guy for being immature when you yourself look like a less appealing Zach Galifianakis and you run a website called Drunk Jays Fans. You’d think a hipster would understand irony better.

  69. i dont care what people say lawries the man, and the shit will be blown over in a few fucking days, (about 4) and were gonna win the world series, GO JAYS GO!

  70. For a blog that prides on being different and always going against the grain of the bullshit in media…..You guys are being the biggest pussies right now with this Lawrie shit….Dude your biggest appeal of this site is being a fucking douche who answers someone else’s mail bag (i love it!) with such a matter of fact douchey asshole replies but now wants to be super PC with this incident!?!? fuckouttttahere….More and more it seems like you get off going against the popular opinion….I still love the site and will keep supporting but please stop the bullshit with this Lawrie shit…everything that happened minus the beer throwing was well fucking deserved…..well fucking deserved.

  71. It’s funny that the comments today are (generally) much more sober (!?!) than last night? could it be that people have had time to sleep off their ninth inning Miller-Showers (my new name for overpriced crappy beer)? or is it that trolls turn to stone during daylight? who knows. I’ll go consult my copy of the hobbit and get back to you.

  72. As was mentioned in the National Post piece, apparently the 3.5′ mark on the BrooksBaseball represents a generic top of strike zone. For Lawrie, they calculated the real top at 3.26′, which makes the call a little more egregious.

  73. by 3 inches? that seems a lot, especially given the still frame photos I’ve seen
    Also, I just managed to troll up and down this comment section. Epic!

    • The fact that you have to tell everyone you’re “trolling” everyone in an “epic” fashion makes most of us just wish you’d stick to Obama and American politics on your other super-popular political board.

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