It would appear as though, contrary to popular belief, Adam Lind wasn’t actually placed on waivers by the Jays this week.


Gregor Chisholm of writes that Lind would have been removed from the 40-man within 48 hours of placement, and he has two sources telling him that Lind remains on the roster– ergo, the rumour was apparently false. One of the two sources also tells Chisholm that there is no evidence of Lind having been placed on waivers at all.

Curse you, Knobler!!!!

Knobler, aka The Knobler, is– of course– Dany Knobler of CBS SportsKnobler, who Knobled earlier this week that this was, y’know… totally a thing. In the aftermath of the Knobler’s Knobling, Mike Wilner of the Rogers-owned Fan 590 tweeted, clarifying his previous assertion the club would likely not confirm Lind’s status, that he’d “just confirmed it with a very reliable source.”

Um… except, apparently not.¬†Unless something’s about to go down, or already has and isn’t know by Gregor’s sources, or… who knows?

For the moment– and, as far as we know, the foreseeable future– Lind remains a Blue Jay. Er… a 51. Er… he’s on the 40-man. At least unless we hear otherwise. Preferably from a non-Knobler.


A couple interesting things have immediately come up in the comments. Firstly, Steve K wonders why, if this story was categorically untrue, Alex Anthopoulos didn’t come out and tell everybody as much. I mean, I get the whole cone of silence bit, but what does this protect, exactly? I’m honestly asking.

Meanwhile, Brumfield Wants Noise thinks that Lind could have indeed been passed through waivers, but kept on the 40-man roster– much like the revocable waivers we see used during the August trading period. I’m just a few too many ciders deep (yeah, that’s right, what of it?) to get that heavy into CBA stuff right now, so… I dunno, you tell me if it’s plausible!

Comments (79)

  1. Just the Knobler goin a-Knoblin’ I guess.


  3. The same thing was writtten today in a Las Vegas paper in an article about Lind (waivers never actually happened).

  4. Honestly, that makes more sense when you add everything up. His contract for yearly purposes isn`t much at all and with the upside in his bat (yes it`s there) I couldn`t understand the Jays just letting him go for nothing, I first thought that when the waivers were mentioned it was because Lind threw a fit and said he wasn`t going to AAA and the club said screw you then. Obviously that`s not the case. Just seeing what’s happened to our outfield depth all of a sudden makes you thankful you’re reasonably deep at a position for emergency purposes.

    • Agreed. Perhaps AA used this as a wakeup call for a “sleepy’ Adam Lind. Lind told shi davidi
      THAT AA had not called him baout the waivers, I knew something was funny.

  5. Has Anthopoulos spoken since all this happened? Why didn’t he just come out and say, “No, that’s wrong.” Instead, Lind and Farrell were both left to field questions about it. I guess it doesn’t matter in the end, but… how wacky.

    • This is an interesting question.

      • Isn’t that AA’s style though? Not to comment on stuff, especially stuff that might be false? As Lind himself said, AA’s been a straight shooter with the players. If was going to outright him then there would likely have been the courtesy of telling him so. Also outrighting him was at odds with everything that was said about Lind going to down to get fixed.

        • This is not like a trade talks type situation in which info getting out into public could sink the trade talks. This is something that really only effects the Jays and Lind. If there are patently false reports about a player being put on waivers, and the reports are actually stated almost as fact (and thus become a fact) then NOT clarifying and (in this case) contradicting the reports is tantamount to verifying the reports. In reality, there didn’t seem to be much need for the Jays to put Lind on waivers anyway.

      • Maybe this is a chance for AA to stay quiet and show people how dumb all the rumours about the Jays are. He probably did clear it up with Lind privately but left it out there to show how idiotic the media can be.

    • Well isn’t the whole process supposed to be confidential. Wouldn’t it kind of defeat the purpose if the management always denied rumors when they were wrong? Because then everyone knows “no comment” is an affirmation.

      • see above. this is nothing like not addressing trade rumors or free agent signings.

        • Except the entire waiver process is supposed to be confidential. League policy, not team.

          • I agree with Max Power on this one, a denial for all false reports and no comments for others is tantamount to confirming them for a process that is supposed to be confidential.

    • There is a really simple reason why (you can disagree with it if you like). If he only speaks about rumours when they are not true, then what does that mean when he doesn’t speak about a rumour? The policy to not speak about rumours has to go both ways, otherwise it is a pointless policy.

    • I suppose that AA might be concerned about denying the reports in this case because that would set a precedent for future cases .. i.e. if the media asks him a question about the status of the next player that he places on waivers he wouldn’t be able to just say “no comment” as that would be a sure sign that in fact the player is on waivers.

  6. A little less Knobling, a little more diligence.

  7. Not that I don’t believe Gregor’s sources, but I think it’s possible his sources may be confused.

    As I understand it, clearing outright waivers doesn’t require you to remove a player from the 40-man, but allows you the option to do so if you so desire. What having Lind clear outright waivers does do is that it allows the Jays to release him at any time with no further action required. With no imminent need for an extra 40-man spot, it’s possible AA is just biding his time until absolutely necessary for whatever reason.

    I still believe the Knobler’s sources because, remember, this leak doesn’t have to come from the Jays, the 29 other teams have access to the contents of the waiver wire and it’s highly likely that the Knobler’s source is from one of these 29 other teams.

    • Doing some more research, it appears as though I was wrong about Lind being able to be released at any time now. To be released Lind would have to go through outright waivers again and be released immediately after clearing. So my theory at the moment is, as mentioned below, AA simply floated Lind through outright waivers to see if anybody would bite, with the intention of keeping him around for now if he cleared.

  8. Is it possible the Jays did place him on waivers but never intended to remove him from the 40 man if he cleared? I.e. They would have liked a team to claim him but if they didn’t they still want to use him so keep him on the 40?

    • Personally, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

      • AA likely floated Lind to see if any team would be remotely interested. Good way to gauge interest from teams in the MLB which can lead to trade talks.

  9. Also, Knobler had two separate sources that told him Lind was on outright waivers. Gregor only has one source saying there was no evidence of him being on outright waivers. Gregor’s other source is speculating he wasn’t on outright waivers because he hasn’t been removed from the 40-man roster (which again, I don’t believe is a requirement for clearing outright waivers, but am happy to be proven wrong about). Warrants mentioning that it’s really Knobler’s 2 sources against Gregor’s 1 source who apparently have direct knowledge of Lind’s waiver status.

  10. Maybe a ludicrous thought, but I wonder if this is how AA is trying to clear out the moles, tell them something ans see if it leaks. The whole thing reeks.

    • cancel that, Knobler had two sources as per Brumfield

    • What an interesting theory’s crazy enough to appear plausible for AA

    • Knoblers sources are probably MLB office sources. As we saw this spring all the BS rumours were coming from opposing teams.

      • How does that make sense? Why would someone in any MLB front office lie about this or make this up? Who are they trying to fool? They all have access to the waiver wire. All anybody in a front office has to do is go on the MLB waiver wire site and see for themselves whether Lind is there or not. Why would anybody make up a false rumour about something anybody that they’d even be trying to misdirect could just look up in 2 seconds and confirm for themselves?

        • It’s not lying it’s just bad information and supposition coming from the other organizations. All the crap from this winter and spring training proves it happens and gets reported.

          If AA and the Jays hold true by saying they’re not talking it’s obvious where the US reporters are getting their information from.

  11. Maybe I’m optimistic here…but I kinda think AA could move him – if he were so inclined – by simply eating the balance of his 2012 contract. Teams would be more likely to take a gamble on a once-promising bat if it didn’t screw up their 2012 budget.

    Of course, for all we know AA believes that Lind can be better and would prefer to give him another shot over trading him at the nadir of his value. If this actually is the bottom, that is…

  12. Wilner is such a tool …. wish someone could hang up on him for being a moron

    • Read the comments.

    • Wilner can be biased but he’s intelligent as fuck and at least presents proof for his statements….you just call the fellow out without reason. Man, he’s taught me a lot about baseball with that post-game talk show of his (don’t want to mention it, might be sacrilidge on a Score website ahahha)

      • I love this notion that Wilner is a friend of the baseball intelligentsia in Toronto.

        He’s not. Like many in the country, he’s a smart dude with a chip on his shoulder. Fundamentally, he is driven by a need to “win” every argument with a caller, and he does that very successfully. The only people you can bet on Wilner softening his tone with are his media pals, Blue Jays staff, and his bannermen callers who rally to his talking points on any given Jaystalk.

        You can’t win every argument about a sport like baseball without contradicting yourself, which is exactly what he does. He’ll slate somebody for using ST stats or small sample sizes, but will do exactly the same himself (with an apolgetic “I know it’s only…” to prefix it). He’ll tell a critical caller that the team is on course for a 94 win season, but then say the team was never meant to contend when the criticism comes late in the season. And so on.

        Think of many of the players he’s talked up in the last few years who are now wallowing in the minors or struggling in the bigs – was that insight on his part? And if nothing else, look at the way he treats callers in order to see that he is ego-driven and not reason-driven. Fuck, he cut off a producer from The Score a couple of weeks ago for having the nerve to raise the issue of Cordero’s troublesome form in closing games. His inconsistencies aside, it’s tough to listen to a chap who has such obvious contempt for his audience.

        One of Bergkamp’s last posts on the old DJF site was dedicated to slamming Wilner for pretty much the reasons listed above; it’s worth looking up if anyone has the inclination. Call Wilner on JaysTalk and raise any discussion that isn’t one of his talking points for the night and look how he’ll take you on. That’s his only gear, and that ain’t rational or reasonable in my book.

        He could be a half-decent broadcaster if he didn’t have such Comic Store Guy issues.

  13. Even if put on outright waivers, they DO NOT have to be removed from the 40 man roster within a 48 hr period, that is something generally done. The reason Jays do not come out and deny it, it same as when a trade rumour is put out, they choose not to comment on either side. SO because of AA policy, bloggers, reporters or whomever can tie the Jays to anyone and know it will not be dis-credited by the Jays

  14. This is what Wilner tweeted after the rumors.

    “Remember how I said Lind on outright waivers would likely not be confirmed? I just confirmed it with a very reliable source #Bluejays #jays”

    • Curious that he was happy to publish that story with anonymous sources, but supposedly refuse to break the Cito/mutiny story in ’09 because nobody was willing to go on the record.

      Keep living in your dream world with Victoria Secrets models, Wilner.

      • Which is why this ordeal is curious.
        With Winer’s faults,he would not report inaccurate or false claims.
        Wilner’s a perfectionist. His ego would never allow his credibillty to be questioned.Especially when it comes to rumours.
        Wilner maybe pompous,condescending,childish and pedant.
        But he’s not a fool when it comes to reporting and his integrity.
        How could he feel superior to everyone else if he published falsehoods?
        I believe his sources were credible at the time of the tweet.
        Curious stuff.

      • Wilner was afraid of annoying Rogers if he disclosed that the Jays players were in mutinee against the only world serises winning manager.

        Wilner learned in 2010 about the consequences of attacking Cito.

        It appears that Wilner’s sources were wrong.

      • In the time you took to write this comment you could have thought about how journalism works and saved yourself the embarrassment. There’s a difference between getting information from a source who doesn’t want to be named but understands it’ll end up in print, and just writing stuff you were told off the record and torching your relationship with the person.

  15. Who could possibly care…I mean of all the options we realistically have, Lind is somewhere just below Bautista and slightly above pulling Kevin Millar out of retirement in terms of the organizational depth chart…just saying

    Me I’d like to see EE with a taste of Cooper to place hold to see if we can keep JPA at backstop with given D’Arnaud a taste to work the bag behind either EE or Bautista next year.

    if Bautista then it opens up for Snider and/or Gose

    a lot of rosterbation but why turn the proverbial dirty undies inside out again with Lind next year? We know what he is and what he isn’t

    • The issue is, what are the plans for Lind?
      Are they gonna let him work things out so he can return?
      So he rips up Cashman field and then shits the bed in the show for another 3months?
      If he does that, will it block further players named or unnamed?
      Are the Jays serious enough to write off 10.75 million?
      If he was on waivers and not claimed,does that not confirm that he’s not only untradeable but unwamted by ANY team?
      There’s a ton more angles to this move.
      But right now,officially,Lind is in the minors to reclaim his batting so he can return to be the Jays first baseman for this year AND next year minimum.
      Unofficially,if he’s been secretly waived with no takers, he has no real value and the Jays must eat the cash or play him at the major league level.
      Are the Jays a championship contending team with a non hitting Lind?
      Reading in between the lines,depending on which option you believe is true, does that push back the timline of the Jays contending to 2014 or 2015?

      • Yes he’s a sunk cost with three years of precedent
        5 mill to the Phils for Halliday
        5 mill to the halos for wells
        5 mill for teahan

        And me a 30 year fan of the Team, sees there is no timetable to win. I wouldn’t pin my hopes in any of the 3 years unless there is a magic confluence of forces where these high ceiling kids all jive together. The early returns suggest not. Look at Lind, Thames, Rasmus, hutch, santos, Alvarez. They are all just varying degrees of mediocre to perhaps slightly above league average at best. There is nothing I see that excites me potential wise….aside from Morrrow, Lawrie and maybe Jpa. Agian from spending a lot years watching players some thought this town

        • Fucking iPad auto correct….come through this town.
          Fuck you Steve jobs….worst feature ever

        • Wasn’t really trying to put it into a timetable but raising a bunch of questions and what ifs.
          I disagree respectfully with what your 30 years of experience tells you.
          A difference of opinion.
          There’s still an abundance of potential and with that hope.
          This years team has 7 players with less than one year in the bigs ,3 of them in the starting rotation.
          It also has a number of first rounders on the roster.
          Yes some will washout ,some will be traded and some will stick and excel.
          I look forward to the ride.

          • I hear you and now you’ve seen just as many games. for me this does not look and feel like the 82-87 jays. More like the 99 vintage with a couple of stud position players and a couple of pitchers. From that vintage we got Delgado, Green with a taste of VW and Carp. Halliday and Escobar. Too bad we never built around them with some FA’s

            AA will probably make the same mistake with the current crop too

        • to rebuttal your argument against Alvarez all I have to do is quote Colby Lewis “”When I was drafted, I felt like I still wanted to be a power guy, and strike everyone out,” said the Rangers’ Lewis. “I wanted to show everybody that I had dominant stuff. But at the end of the day, you just want to have success. I’d rather have less strikeouts and go deeper into the game, than 10 strikeouts in five innings and be out of the game.”

          At Hutch he is 22, I would rather give Hutch a shot at 22 than waste time on Oswalt, yes, you will get less wins but you never know what you have. And

          and at Rasmus, the guy is 25, when did Bautista get it together, 30? You bust on guys who are young but for fuck sake, I would rather chance with someone young than someone like VLAD, because VLAD helps as a backup or push for playoffs, but long term, he hinders you. And before someone makes VIzquel reference, then he is a backup utility role, you give your young guys more playing time.

          • you folks will just not get it until another 1-2 years pass by and you realize that Romero and Bautista were actually entering their declining years starting in 2012. The point the poster above you was making is valid. You can get a good solid core of high talent and also a solid prospect system around, but at some point you also have to look what you’ve got on the field, what the decline potential is, and what your record is and chances for the current year. And it is then you’ve got the challenge of filling some gaps here and there and making a run. and not just 1 year…but doing this over at least a couple.

            the team might get some really exciting players entering the majors – gose, hevech, norris, d’nar, etc…but realistically you can’t field a team of rookies, regardless of their talent ceiling, and expect that they’re going to pull it off. you have to have experience as well…so the challenge is finding the right timing where your vets and your rooks all are producing. And this has been said time and time again – the window is finite. At some point Bautista and Romero will cool off such that they may no longer be able to contribute to the level you need to win a WS. The minute you lose them you need to be able to replace not only them, but the gaps you had while they were here. If you think the farm system is going to plop down a complete team from start to finish you’re crazy.

            they have to assess as-they-go, year after year..and when it looks like they’ve got a decent combo they need to plug some holes through smart trades and make a run.

            I am one of those not convinced that a couple of trades could get this team into contention even this year. 1 Pitcher, LF, and 1 more great bat and they could be as good as the ’85-’87 team. And that’s worth doing while Romero and Bautista and Morrow are here to contribute.

            I’m not convinced that Romero and Bautista will come back next year as good as they were in 2010, 2011, or even 2012.

            and are we even going to be able to retain Johnson? Edwin??

            this ‘hold off’ discussion has been going on for over 2 years now.

            next year you could gain 1-2 pitchers, 1-2 bats…but you may lose 1-2 of each as well. so how are you going to be any better off?

            as to whether Rasmus picks up, Draybek, Alvarez pick up? who knows…there’s not much to tell us yet whether that will or won’t happen. Counting on it is foolish.

            being too liberal is a problem, yes. Making stupid trades is a problem. But being too conservative is also a problem and a joke as well. I hope AA doesn’t choke. He’s done an amazing job, but at some point you’ve got to think about laying down the chips to some degree.

            are you guys *still* going to argue that spending big $$ on Darvish wouldn’t have turned this Team into a bit of a Monster in 2012 already??

          • Tocher Maime – I get we’re you’re coming from but right now it’s too early to judge AA in this. Most of the Jays high ceiling prospects are in A ball right now. To fill the holes you’re talking about, many of these gus will have to get flipped for proven players. However, there value right now should only improve as they advance (barring injury and major setbacks of course) and even more importantly the Jays are going to be able to build properitary information over time to decide which ones to let go and which to hold on to. It’s only then that it makes sense to deal these prospects so I’m going to hold my judgment until I see how AA handles the situation when the time comes.

  16. Yeah, I buy the comments above. Maybe they didn’t put him on waivers to get him off the 40 man, but to actually see if anyone would take the contract. Makes sense to me.

  17. Lind-Schmind. Our dad had Cito whispering in his ear before Adam had self-consciousness.

  18. Personally, I love that the reporters can’t even figure out what the team is up to. Loose lips sink ships, bitchez!


    It’s good to see the Jays almost averaging 5,000 more a game than at this point last year. The average right now is higher than at any point outside the first 10 games of last year’s season. Let’s hope it keeps building and the Jays don’t suck when they have a full house like they have most times.

  20. Kennedy76ca is correct. The Jays could still move Lind off the 40 man if he passed through waivers (no legit source publicly saying).

  21. Thats two big rumours that have come from reliable sources that have been wrong . Darvish and now Lind.
    Covert operations or some people are having some fun.

  22. Isn’t it possible AA was just throwing Lind a bone, putting him on waivers to see if there was another big-league job out there for him, with the gentleman’s agreement being that if no one bit, Lind would suck it up and report to the minors? That would fit with the no-intention-of-removing-him-from-the-40 argument, and would seem to mesh with AA’s seeming respect for his players.

  23. I think the most interesting part of this whole thing is the fact that Wilner had the rumour confirmed. Now, I kind of assume that Wilner’s sources were with the Jays themselves and not at the MLB head office.

    If that last part is true, I wonder if this was AA “testing” to see how “leak proof” his FO is, or alternatively, how “leak proof” some other person was.

    All speculation, obviously.

    • Hard to contain any leak when 29 other clubs can see the waiver wire if Lind was indeed put on waivers. I doubt AA is the type of guy who play mindfuck games with his FO as he likely researches each hire very extensively.

      I think the media overplayed the whole waiver wire angle. Players are placed through on a regular basis, including big-name players burdened by large contractual obligations.

      The likely scenario is that AA floated Lind to other teams saying, if you want him, we will put him through the waiver wire. Team A then raises their hand and says, we’re interested. Then the player is pulled and trade talks ensues. Not sure of how it works exactly but I do know that teams have done this in the past.

      Whether or not Lind was actually placed on waivers or if he was just floated is a technicality. The real story is that AA was quietly shopping Lind, which shouldn’t be a surprise. Another angle to the story is that AA was trying to extract some value for Lind which may prove to be difficult.

      • “Hard to contain any leak when 29 other clubs can see the waiver wire if Lind was indeed put on waivers”

        Except according to Chisholm, and another story here:

        Lind wasn’t put through waivers at all.

        Leaking info to the media if he was going to see if anyone wanted to take Lind seems very un-Anthopolous like to me.

        • Didn’t imply that AA was leaking anything to the media. What I was saying is that AA floated Lind to other teams. Source of the rumour could be from any of the other teams.

          My point was that teams often feel each other out by indicating that such and such player might be placed on waivers, hence, they are floated out there for all teams to take a nibble on. In some cases, a team might express some interest. If no deal can be reached, then the interested team simply claims the player off waivers and assumes the contract (ex: Rios). Or, there might be a deal made where the Jays could provide some salary relief in exchange for a PTBNL or something.

          To me, the real story is that Lind is being shopped around. The how and when is just a technicality. And as I said, extracting any value for Lind might be a tall order for AA.

          • Don’t quote me on the procedure, as the whole waiver wire thing is somewhat nebulous. But seeing a player picked up on waivers by another team is often the result of a gentleman’s agreement between two clubs where a formal trade agreement cannot be reached.

            There are plenty of inside deals made in MLB. Yes, the GM fraternity is competitive, but there is also a strong level of professional courtesy. Any smart GM maintains a cordial and courteous relationship with opposing teams. You never know when you have to make a bigger deal down the road with the same team.

          • OK, I get where you’re coming from, and I totally agree AA probably talked to a couple other GMs, but that still doesn’t explain Wilner to me, if we both assume that he got his info from a Jays source. I suppose its possible he has sources with other teams or in the MLB front office, but I find that highly unlikely. I don’t see Wilner as being “plugged in”.

            Anyhoo, it’s much ado about nothing… I just find it interesting.

  24. Allisauce has a good point. It might be AA testing out his office for a leak(er). It might be interesting to see if, perhaps in a few weeks, someone leaves.

    That having been said, after the Darvish Disaster and all the flak, AA wasn’t particularly apologetic about the way the whole mess went down and I don’t see him changing his policy of No Comment now, so even if it made no political difference at all, I doubt he would say anything.

  25. Wilnerness590 Mike Wilner
    Procedurally, it turns out that if a player clears outright waivers, he doesn’t have to be outrighted off the 40-man. #Lind #Bluejays #jays
    35 minutes ago

  26. The media does not do a very good job at times, and this is one of those times. Why can’t the media in this town get the straight goods on the Lind story, and report it. Oh yeah, if there was a story to get we would get it from ESPN, not the local scribes here. Keep up the great work fellas

  27. One of the few times that the DJF comment section hasn’t come up with a clear consensus on the topic at hand.Usually,somebody here comes up with an article from backwoods Kentucky Moonshiner about Lind’s cousin twice removed confirming or denying.It amazes me and I am in awe sometimes.
    What we do know and seems logical to me ( at least in my fucked up brain).
    AA prides himself with being straight with players ( it gains their respect).Neither Lind nor Farrell were aware of Lind being waived.Why would AA send Lind to Vegas then a day later waive him?Lind was struggling for a while,AA had plenty of time to consider his options,trade,waive or demote.

    It sounds like Knobler and Wilner got caught with their pants down and their sources the same.How can so many baseball writers be confused about waivers and the 40 man roster?

  28. It’s all just a little weird. Most plausible explanation seems to be floating Lind to see if anyone bites (Florida was supposedly rumoured to be talking about Lind, if you believe mlbtraderumors).

    Found this:
    Waiver Trade Rules
    I found a helpful old Steve Phillips article explaining the whole August waiver trade thing. If you don’t feel like checking that out, here’s a summary:

    Any player can be put on waivers by his team, and the player does not need to be informed.

    Other teams have the chance to make a claim on the player during a 47 hour window.

    If the player is claimed, the team that placed him on waivers has the option of pulling him back. If the team pulls him back they can’t trade him for 30 days.

    If his team decides not to pull him back:

    Option 1: His team can work out a trade with the team that claimed him. Any player involved in the trade who is on a 40 man roster must go through waivers first.

    Option 2: His team can just dump him and his salary on the team that claimed him, getting no player in return.

    Option 3: No one claims him, and his team is free to trade him to any team.

    If more than one team places a claim on a player, the winning claim is awarded based on worst record or the league the claiming team is in.

    • Shit – scratch that. That’s AUGUST. fuck me I gotta read first.

    • I think waivers in August and Waivers now are completely different. Waivers now would be irrevocable – meaning the Jays wouldn’t be able to pull him back. If claimed, he’d be gone.

  29. Seems to me from quick reading that Revocable Waivers are only in effect AUG 01-end of season. The rest of the year it’s only Unconditional Release Waivers and Irrevocable Outright Waivers. Can’t find anything so far that says a player can be placed on URW or IOW and not be off the 40-man as a result. That seems kind of pointless…unless it’s a “floater”?

  30. My question is, who really gives a shit? He’s not on the MLB team anymore and he’s playing in Vegas, who cares how, why, etc. As long as I don’t have to see him flail at fucking balls every night!

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