Jesus, still?

The goddamn Orioles? Still? Running guys like tonight’s starter Tommy fucking Hunter out there? And still?

Jesus.

Of course, I talk with a straight face of vaguely-realistic playoff chances for the 2012 Jays, as they run Drew Hutchison and Kyle Drabek out there– on this week’s podcast, specifically, in the face of Parkes’s rational look at the standings– so the hell am I to scoff at anyone’s shitbag, really?

Oh, but I will. I will, and I’ll think of every hopeless article about the magic of Buck Showalter, and every clueless suggestion that the O’s are real, or last year’s Clevelands were real, or the 27-14 Jays, or the 2008 Ra– well… um… how the fuck are the Orioles not terrible?!!?!?

Tonight the downfall continues. I can feel it.

Scuttlebutt

As you can see from the lineups, Johnson is in, and so is Vizquel– as Yunel Escobar is day-to-day with a groin thing. Jeff Mathis gets the start too, and Travis Snider’s placeholder amazingly bats fifth. With Yan Gomes optioned down to help spare the bullpen, it leaves JP Arencibia, Rajai Davis, and… um… that’s about it on the bench.

John Lott tweets that Adam Lind’s work in Las Vegas has been “encouraging,” according to Alex Anthopoulos, and that “when he starts stringing together great games and great at-bats, day in and day out, we’ll finally feel he’s back to where he should be.”

The minor league report from Bluebird Banter informs us that Vlad Guerrero was 2 for 5 with home run for Dunedin on Sunday. The Toronto Star reports that he could be at Double-A or Las Vegas as soon as the end of the week.

TV: Sportsnet

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at theScore.com. And for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with Score Mobile

Toronto Blue Jays

K. Johnson 2B
C. Rasmus CF
J. Bautista RF
E. Encarnacion DH
E. Thames LF
B. Lawrie 3B
D. Cooper 1B
J. Mathis C
O. Vizquel SS

D. Hutchison RHP

Baltimore Orioles

X. Avery LF
J. Hardy SS
N. Markakis RF
A. Jones CF
M. Wieters C
W. Betemit 3B
C. Davis 1B
M. Reynolds DH
R. Andino 2B

T. Hunter RHP

Comments (206)

  1. Dear Baseball Gods…

    I’m not sure that my psyche can handle yet another embarrassment, especially at the hands of the OriLOLes. Please be kind…

    Amen.

    • Please don’t tempt fate. I for one would be happy to never see “OriLOLes” again, or at least until we flip flop positions with them.

  2. Seeing Thames man that outfield and rake ball after ball over the outfield fence makes the losing bearable

  3. Only two batters in but Hutch looks pretty sharp.

  4. Didn’t he strike out 5 straight once only to get knocked out in the 3rd?

  5. Wow its been a while since a Jays pitcher had a good first inning.

  6. Its a good thing that they have to play 120 some games still

  7. Wait : three up, three down innings are still allowed? Someone lied to me…

  8. Here’s what I don’t really get:

    That Johnson was essentially a game time decision, and there was no insurance in case he couldn’t go.

    Curious.

  9. KJ looked pretty gimpy there.

  10. Has Rasmus moved closer to the plate in the box than he used to?

  11. Man Kelly looked like he was hurting rounding first there… I have a funny feeling we see Hech make his debut very soon.

  12. Rasmussed!!!!1

  13. And now they go make him run again…

  14. fuck ya Rasmus continues to rake. Johnson does not look good running at all. I would have had Hech up just in case.

  15. Cooper, Mathis and Vizquel? I thought the Jays this year had outgrown the necessity of having three consecutive sub-.200 batters in the lineup? Maybe they can bring back Nix

  16. I see what Thames did there – he did what Tabby wanted and “let it go”.

  17. Did you know that Wilson betemit was the subject of a famous line in a famous song by the Australian ensemble “MEN AT WORK”

    the line went “he just smiled and gave me a Betemit sandwhich…I come from a land down under!”

  18. I could get used to that kind of inning.

  19. when is vlad up, and does tonights performance factor into if kj re-injures himself running

  20. All 4 lefties have hits and all 3 righties have made out.

  21. Okay now a righty has a hit. Hunter sucks.

  22. Tommy Hunter is serving up meatballs tonight.

  23. I hate bunts.

    • I do too – but with Vizquel at the plate its not a crazy idea to move those guys out of double play scenario.

  24. Genuinely shocked that we had completed 3 sacrifices already

  25. I would rather a sac bunt over a strikeout and then double play.

  26. It’s almost like they have a plan tonight. Very encouraging.

  27. Ya know, if we could somehow stop our opponents from giving their 1b gloves, Rasmus would be batting atleast .650

  28. DFA Hutchison pls

  29. Here we goooooooooooooooooo!

  30. That’s my boy! I taught him how to take a walk proper. The moment you grab someone by the lapels, you’re lost.

  31. Jesus, camouflage caps? Fuck off with this shit.

  32. This is quite smart of Hutchison. Walk the Orioles to force them on base. This keeps the bases clogged and will make it difficult for them to score.

  33. So many walks.

  34. “Hey fucktard, throw some strikes”

    - bruce walton, daily

  35. Fuck lords…. Hutch always needs a fucked up inning per every start.

  36. Can we get some more walks please? MOAR!

  37. Mathis should paint a picture of Snookie on his mitt to make Drew-Hutch throw some fucking strikes

  38. I would rather watch Jason Frasor pitch every inning of every game than see another one of our starters walk the bases loaded.

  39. Holy fuck, enough drama for one inning….

  40. fuckin hell the jays were lucky to get out of that inning.

  41. i dont care how many walks are given, as long as they dont score. the homerun king in texas could have been walked but they justified it by saying he was in a slump.oh hamilton why?

  42. fuck Dallas Green. even if you injected him with a-rods shit and even bartolo colon he couldnt sing like a man

  43. launched

  44. EDDIE!!

  45. That error at 1st hurt them immediately.

  46. The DJF crew’s bizarre comparable choice (willingham) for EE given his age and trend in his stats. 2 years 12m USD or such craziness was mentionef.No way Jose

    It’s going to be 3 x 8m or 9m USD

    Book it

  47. And using historic years (2+) to justify the comparison isn’t right. You’re paying for future performance.

  48. if you want DJF to use DISQUS…..

    http://www2.thescore.com/ScoreTV/talk-to-us/

  49. Anyone know what’s up with logos on the hats tonight? It looks like the Jaysand the umps have some white markings the logo, but the O’s look normal.

  50. Apparently I’ve been sleeping for the last couple of months. Where’s Lawrie’s power? He’s slugging way under .400. The offense overall is shite. What’s up?

    • Sophomore slump

      • The league has figured him out. DFA that asshole already. Oh, I thought we were talking about Thames.

        This is just part of his development – he has to learn to make those adjustments while we admire those golden rays of sunshine coming out of his ass.

  51. Oh, isn’t it nice to play a team that isn’t Tampa or Texas?

  52. WOW!

  53. I want more “hurt” Kelly Johnson!

  54. Colby versus Dana. This is like new Jays versus old Jays to the max. Awesome.

  55. I miss these Orioles.

    • oh they were always there, under the surface, just waiting for the clock to strike 12 and the wheels to fall off the pumpkin.
      I mean, did you really, honestly think that they were better than the jays, rays, yankees and red sawks? Well, maybe the sawks.

  56. If Rasmus had not changed where he sets up at the plate….that was a lazy fly out.
    Turn the corner Colby!

  57. if you want DJF to use DISQUS…..
    http://www2.thescore.com/ScoreTV/talk-to-us/

  58. At least after all this time Thames is taking good strong cuts at curveballs 4 feet outside.

    • I wanted Thames to have a good opportunity this season to show if he can play major league ball or not. He can hit fastballs, unlike Lunch Box Hero, so I wondered how much upside there might be. Well, now we know. He’s a borderline player, maybe a fourth outfielder, and his brutal defensive play is not getting better.

      Even more good news. I’m skeptical that David Cooper will ever stick with an MLB team, but I could be wrong and a bunch of posters on here think he deserves a chance. Hey, he’s getting that chance.

      And if you can stand any more happiness, Stoeten, hipster douchebag that he can be, is probably right about the Orioles. If they were actually good, why would they be playing so many retreads who couldn’t stick with the Jays?

  59. hey buck, it cannot be tigers and angels in the world series they play in the same division….

  60. adam lind 1.147 ops in 8 games in vegas.

    • But is he visibly frustrated? ;)

    • jeff ‘johnny’ mathis would ops 1100 in vegas

    • I don’t know if that’s indicative of how well he’s playing right now, or truly an illustration of what a complete and utter joke Vegas is. You can’t go from being as bad as Lind has been this year and then all of a sudden be mashing like that. I knew Vegas was a joke before, but this has to prove it. If a guy hit .600 in Vegas all year I’d be skeptical he’d be good in the bigs.

    • evidence, that when people say Snider has nothing left to prove in AAA they are talking out there ass. That and when Gose has hitt 477 in the last 11 games tells you that in the PCL your stats, dont just go up they go way up.

      • That’s exactly why people say Snider has nothing left to prove in AAA. Even if he hit .800 with 80 HRs people would still be skeptical it would translate to the bigs, and rightly so. If Mike McCoy can OPS .900 down there, all offensive stats are meaningless.

        Once Snider is healthy they need to either bring him up and let him play a full season, or get rid of him. The problem is he’s seen as JPR’s guy (since JPR rushed him up to the bigs) whereas Thames, though drafted under the JPR regime, is seen as AA’s guy (since AA initially promoted him). Hence why Thames will always be favoured. Every GM does it, ours just makes it a bit less obvious.

    • Thats why when you see D’Arnaud has 8HRs in 11 games you gotta take it with a major grain of salt.

      • I swear watching Cooper is like watching a worse defending weaker hitting Lind.

        • Cooper has more hard-hit balls tonight than Lind had all season. I’d rather watch the kid.

      • That is lazy analysis. You have to take into account the history of the player (how he’s performed at other levels and the scouting reports on him). Take into account where these homers are occurring (they are not all at home and are not all at elevation)..and take into account how he is actually hitting these dingers (are they homers that are a byproduct of environment or are they no doubters?)

        so to say a top 50 prospect hitting 8 dingers in 11 games should be taken with a grain of salt, I say that is not true at all

        • It’s not lazy analysis. Nobody is arguing D’Arnaud isn’t great but if you expect him to do that anywhere but in the PCL you’re delusional. I’m glad he’s lighting it up. He now joins Cooper, Arencibia, Snider, and Chris Woodward as guys who can take down there and need to prove themselves in MLB.

      • D’Arnaud is only the 4th best prospect right now according to Keith Law and Gose according to Goldstein, Parkes, BA is one of the toolsiest player in the minor leagues. These are not AAAA players.

        In May D’Arnaud has an OPS of 1.134 with a 7:17 BB:K ratio and Gose (who is 21) has an OPS of 999 with a 13:18 BB:K in May. And they both have great away numbers. How about using some context when you make statements like that.

        • BTW my response was to Ernie Whitt

        • No one is arguing they are not good. I AM arguing that regardless of how good these two are – PCL stats are not an indicator of true talent as proven by every player who has ever played there. Which is exactly why you need to take what happens there with a grain of salt as per my original argument. The fact that a guy is the 4th best prospect in baseball doesn’t change the environment in which he plays.

  61. Nasty fastball to strike out Jones. Hutchison has touched 95 a few times this game. I didn’t think he could fire it up there like that.

  62. BTW, has anyone else had a problem with DJF and GB with the iOS5 update on their smartphones? I mean, it goes all blurry when I try to re-adjust the screen size but only does it on these Score blogs- nothing else. It’s just really annoying because the “Reader” thing doesn’t show comments so it’s fucking useless.

    Anybody got anything?

  63. I’ll be watching the game tomorrow from one of the luxury boxes, a first for me.

  64. This would be an optimal time to take Johnson out of the game. Nobody to replace him though..

  65. If the hitting in Vegas is ridiculous and everyones numbers go way up, so every discounts great numbers, how does anyone ever go down there and prove themselves?
    Take it with a grain of salt i get that, but still isnt credit due where credit is due?

    • Of guys who have more than 30 ABs this year with the 51s: 8 are batting over .300. 6 are under 300 with Cooper at .298 Woodward at .295 and Anthony Gose at .291.

      Grain of salt until you do something in the MLB.

    • They improve by showing signs not doing same things, IE as soon as Snider would come back everyone would see that he chaces pitches, that are 3 feet out of the zone. They look more for signs of discipline than stats. People like Parkes and Stoeten have to realize there is more to baseball than what fangraph stats tell you. In 2010 Corey Paterson in triple AAA had a 368 avg, just saying.

      • stoeten and parkes have plenty of unjustifiable irrational opinions, don’t you worry

        • only really good seats tho

        • yep. I was listening to the pod cast today till I heard Parkes say, when talking about JImenez, if you compare his fangraphs, 2011 pitches to 2012. This is the difference between a fan blogger, and news reporter such as Chisholm and Dick Griffin, they take more into account than peripherals.

          • like their personal feelings which they trust more than actual fact?

          • yeah, Griffen takes into account how all things relate to the 79/80 expos and how that can tell you all you need to know about a player

          • And if you wanna talk about personal feelings, look at Stoten scuttle but 3 games Rangers, Jays were going to win, but apparently lose to the Orioles. Or I could give reference to week 2 when Jays were swept by orioles and he predicted easy win against Orioles shitbag players 1-9.

            Easy to attack other peoples oppinion without giving your own which is POS arguments.

          • There has to be some balance between fact and opinion. Sure guys like Griff and Chisolm have better access, and I trust their eyeball scouting more than I’d trust the DJF guys, and also their inside info etc. but when it comes to using advanced metrics as a tool to help inform discussion over individual performances, and look at how a player might perform, well, Parkes and Co. do have their shit together.
            But, as someone once said, an ignoramus uses statistics the same way a drunk uses a streetlight, namely for support rather than illumination.

          • To quote Mark Twain “Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please”. Problem with any baseball stats, is finding the best stats as quantifiers,

      • What does Fangraphs have to do with understanding that the PCL is a terrible indicator across the board of how a guy will perform in MLB.

        • If you read my original argument I mentioned that a player is sent down and when they bring them back they arn’t looking to see them hitting similar in stats to guys in AAA, what they are looking for is the plate discipline, the instictual response, taking coach instruction and not falling into old routines.

          On the internet you often see Trolling Strawman and slippery slope arguments when tit heads, try to attack one argument you make and using it to dismiss all arguments but strawman your original argument.

          Ernie Whitt, question you talk about personal oppinion, thats all sports, is try and tell me that player X is better than Player Y, you cannot explain how anyone is better without personal oppinion on why one stat is more justifiable than another, some will then quantify leadership and how some players like on the Rangers don’t just play well but make there team play well.

          • I read your original comment. It was really dumb.

            If you want to believe all of the “he changed his swing mechanics” narrative garbage – sure thats what they’re looking for.

            In the case of Adam Lind they’re looking for him to not be in the Blue Jays lineup.

            As for “personal opinion”. There is informed opinion and then “talking out your ass lazy” – a category which Griffin surely falls into. If you want to get all existential about it then by all means have ‘atter.

          • Ernie Whitt, if the Jays were serious about having Vlad DH rest of the season and EE 1b they would have done it to start the season. Calling something dumb without giving any fallical evidence, just makes you look like a jerkoff.

            If you wanna talk about talking out your ass lazy, I personally consider someone like Stoten and Parkes who are getting paid by the score…. to constantly quote fangraphs without any type of interviews etc, is lazy. All reporters and bloggers, talk out there ass from time to time (Wilners support for Lind for example, or anyone mentioning Snider, when he continually shits the bed when he is up in the Majors, yes he looks good in AAA but looks Thames esque hitting. And to the next person who says his df is above avg, no his df is LF only any worse and he would be 1b. Remember Bautista defense, is held up by his arm, and Snider df is worse than Bautista, give it a year and Bautista will play LF.

        • shhhhhh.
          if you try take away the dream that PCL stats mean anything you’ll wake the trolls… we’re trying to feed them oriLOLes to keep them quiet

  66. Jeff Mathis to replace Johnson :D Only person who could cover him is Lawrie. 3rd would have to be Bautista having EE at DH instead of 1b forces him to stay dh or require a pitcher to bat, should of put EE 1st. then when he is moved to 3rb they could of brought in an of, while get Thames to cover 1b (couldn’t be any worse than LF).

  67. Just as Hutch isn’t getting lit up, the Jays need him to pitch deep and work up a high pitch count. Next start he’ll probably not have it then…seems to happen to Morrow a lot.

    • He just gave ‘em 7 shutout innings. It was 114 pitches … yeah that is a little more than optimal.

  68. is it me, or does matt wieners kinda look like kenny powers’ nemeses russian/dj team mate?

  69. i think ricky’s lazy eye is causing all the walks.someone give him a toothpick to prop it open

  70. 9 Ks for Hutch tonight. I know the 3rd was a shit show – but good for him for finding a way to go deep in this game after struggling a bit.

  71. Hutch looked like a different pitcher tonight. He had a 95 mph fastball into the 7th inning? I dont think he hit 95 more than a couple times in all of his other starts combined.

    More importantly, these fastballs were painted on the corners for the most part.

    I think one of the reasons he was getting hit around his 2nd/3rd time through lineups in his other games, after solid beginnings, was because he went AWAY from the fastball to a greater degree than I think he needed to.

    His fastball is by far his best pitch because it moves and he can spot it. Perhaps he was out thinking himself by going away from it, knowing the batters would be looking fastball.

    this is part of the process of learning how to pitch in the bigs.

  72. Ah fuck here comes Kevin Gregg. Get ready people.

  73. Kevin “The Shitshow” Gregg warming up!

  74. The most important pitch is strike one.

    - Pappy Walton

  75. Thank goodness they didn’t make Hutch pitch the 8th like I thought they were going to do.

  76. Anybody know the attendance tonight after that shitshow roadtrip?

  77. Perez does this thing everytime he comes in. Takes a couple hitters to start throwing strikes consistently.

  78. Did Tabby just ask Buck if he`s ever been up there during a game??

    Yeah Tab – I called the 6th from there – how the fuck do you miss that.

  79. Thanks, Bluejayway. I thought it might only hit four digits. That’s respectable.

    Unfortunately, too few fans will be in house to see a nice win.

  80. Kevin Gregg is getting paid 6 million dollars this year.

    How is this possible?

  81. the jays are bi polar.

  82. Hard to call anyone legit Tabby when you are losing to a team who has lost last 5 games and 2-3 have given up over 12, and you yet to score a run.

    • Or, is it fair to say that one game, or 5 or 12 or even 40 are too little to see what a team’s true talent level is? Maybe that over a 162 game season true talent shows through?

  83. The last four innings we have been blanked by Kevin Gregg and Dana Eveland..on just one hit. just goes to show you what pitchers can do in situations that are meaningless

  84. George Bell, Well Gregg racked up enough saves and it was under old Baltimore management. Apparently, bringing in Duquette wasn’t as funny as everyone snarked about during the offseason.

    If the Jays are finish .500 again this year, I think you should give Farrell free rein to bring in hitting and pitching coaches as needed. He shouldn’t be stuck with Cito’s choices if he doesn’t want them.

  85. Ok, I know it’s only one game, and single game samples are meaningless, but can we start calling them the OriLOLes again? I miss that.

  86. knock that shit off CoCo BeWare

  87. I see Cordero is at home pitching in the ninth again.

    Good thing he has a six-run cushion.

  88. What Tango does to show true talent is take the record the team has and then regress to about .500 for the rest of the season as a quick and dirty analysis.

  89. How long does Farrell keep him in for?

  90. Oh, Coco.

  91. Buck: “Drew Hutchinson’s ERA dropped from 5.73 down to 4.83″
    Tabler: “Couple more starts like this, and it’ll be under four.”

    Nice catch, Pat.

  92. Oh fuck CoCo. Goddamn you for spoiling the night.

  93. He doesn’t deserve to be boo’d.. but fuck CoCo…

  94. fuckoff coco

  95. Has CoCo been sitting 95 all season?

  96. Brutal.

  97. Are we fucked here?

  98. How much longer can he keep a job here?

  99. (facepalm)

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