Well that is certainly a relief, even more question marks? Amidst the Nats battering Kyle Drabek around the yard for the better part of 4+ innings, the Jays young right hander (who now has walked 47 and struck out 47 batters on the year) stomped off the mound during a fifth-inning at bat against Mike Morse.

Trainer George Poulis and manager John Farrell rushed to the mound to examine Drabek, with Farrell placing a fatherly (presidential?) hand on Drabek’s right shoulder. After the game, the assembled press horde learned of a “popping” sound in Drabek’s right elbow. Yikes. Tests are scheduled for later in the day.

Though Drabek claimed to not be in pain/felt different pain than prior to his Tommy John procedure in 2007, the only thing more worrisome than Drabek’s health is his actual performance. As stated above, he got roughed up by Washington in a big way, feeling the full power of their Natitude.

Nine of the 21 hitters he faced reached base, with one home run and a series of loud line drives punctuating the screams of the approximately ninety-thousand school children in attendance today. Fooling nobody, a wise man tweeted.

If he’s hurt, it might serve to only prolong the inevitable. Though he looked like a candidate for right-arm shittiness diagnosis, what good is giving him time to think about what he’s done? Similarly, sending him to Vegas or to the pen accomplishes little at this point. Is giving Kyle Drabek all the rope he needs to prove he either can or cannot hack it a bad thing?

Some will suggest he’s already proven that he, in fact, cannot hack anything. Too many walks and too many line drives to compete as a big leaguer. The stuff is nice but when has he missed bats or posted noteworthy results above the high-A level?

As we await the results from whatever tests, it is safe to say that whatever “fixed” Kyle Drabek early in the season has been undone. Since his great start against the Rangers on April 30th, Drabek hasn’t walked fewer than three batters in a start, recording more Ks than walks only twice in seven starts (and they were both 5K/4BB outings.) Might a career in middle relief be in the offing? Wade Davis wants to have a chat, Kyle.

Comments (302)

  1. I have a question pertaining to clowns.

  2. His velocity seemed a bit off today and there wasn’t the crispness there compared to his normal stuff even when he’s wild (which is a lot of the time).

    I think a certain writer should be sending Kyle a dozen S’mores to ease his angst. He can always lift them to his mouth with his left hand.

  3. kyle drabek is a bust anyways

    • No such thing as a 24-year old bust. You expect too much from kids. This isn’t the NHL where Nazim Kadri should have been NHL ready two years ago.

  4. so if drabek hits the DL, our rotation could be romero/alvarez/hutch/chavez/whoever they call up to replace drabek (cecil, carreno, etc)

    2013 here we come!!!

    • wait does this mean you think we will contend in 2013? LOLOL

    • That starting rotation makes me vomit. It wouldn’t be so bad if Ricky, Henderson and Hutch were pitching better. They haven’t been god-awful, but they’ve been making too many mistakes and teams are capitalizing on them. Giving up walks and homers like it’s nobody’s business.

      But even in the event those guys pitching decently, without Morrow we are proper fucked. We have little to no depth when injuries start creeping up.

      • these are human beings u guys are bitching about not robots..they are doing thier best in a tough division..geesh… it is a game and they are damn good at it..or they wouldnt be there ..hmmm maybe we should critic your work performance the same..lighten up guys and just support your team..and stop second guessing..just enjoy the game..win or lose

        • Lol is this a joke? If I failed at my job as much as some of these guys do theirs I’d have been kicked out the door long ago.

          • That is a ridiculous statement. Not one of our starters has been terrible. Have they blossomed into superstars? No. But until now they have put in among the highest innings in the league and all are around a 4 ERA.

          • Riggs….on every level your comment is the stupid one. Joanne is right, although she neglects to understand how hipsters and current sports fans thrive on cynicism and being able to cut everybody down. People no longer ‘idolize’ sports stars… we wait for them to fail and then say ‘see, I told you so’. Yeah people want their team to win, but it is just as much an outlet for anger. The big contracts and ego’s in sports, not to mention roids etc. have made this easy to do. There is no respect in society anymore, for the elderly, politicians, professionals…So Joanne is right, but she’s on the wrong blog.

    • Please fucking god not Laffey. PLEASE NOT LAFFEY I’LL DO ANYTHING!

  5. Funny how quickly pitching depth evaporates

    Winter 2011 you had and then what’s happened to them since

    Romero – Regressed some right off the bat, having control issues
    Morrow – Mostly brilliant, looking like an ace, now out 4-8 weeks
    Alvarez – Great start, didn’t get rattled, having trouble now and showing doubts
    Cecil – Shit the bed right out of spring training, struggled in minors, better there of late
    McGowan – Injured from the get go still is, future extremely doubtful now

    Drabek – Great spring, great start to season, latter half same as 2011, now injured
    Hutchison – Great spring, started slowly, getting better as seasons progresses.
    McGuire – Good spring, high hopes then he shit the bed for some reason in spring
    Jenkins – See McGuire above.

    Prior to spring training there had to be a lot of hope there with the potential but there was also a lot of risk as there were no guarantees that Cecil or Drabek would bounce back, McGowan could overcome his injuries, or that the youngsters would perform well given their limited time in AA.

    • Very good post. You can never have enough pitching. Unfortunately the team didn’t want to spend money or give up prospects to get any veteran help.

      The bats aren’t helping either, but they are good for 1 game per week where they will get 9 or 10 runs.

      The rest of the time it’s two or 3 runs.

    • thank god alex signed that veteran starter.

  6. I didn’t know right-arm shittiness caused a popping sound..

    • The popping Kyle heard was the hope bubbles of a legion of fans bursting. It’s no accident this club has bobbed along at .500 for a generation. Mediocre, mediocre, mediocre. The Toronto Medioques.

      • So stop following them and go away. When AA pulls a few strings and uses some of his farm system and available payroll to land a big arm or two and a big bat, we’ll welcome you onto the ol bandwagon.

  7. AA doubled down on the status quo. It’s treated the Jays marvellously for so long, why change?

  8. I don’t disagree that he looks a lot like the shitbag we saw last year, but don’t be writing off starting pitchers at 24. He could be a career middle reliever, or he could just be one of those 26-year-old lightbulbs.

    • We traded Halladay for a middle relief pitcher… awsome.
      Just joking, Drabek could turn things around.
      Luckily AA lucked into D’Arnaud and Houston wanting Wallace or that TRADE DOESN’T LOOK VERY GOOD!
      I say lucked into D’arnaud, because even know they might have liked Travis he wasn’t the cream. The cream was Drabek then Wallace, then D’arnaud.

      • Awesome, how I spelled Awesome.

      • Halladay’s contract would have been over by now anyway. So instead of nothing we have a legit pitcher who is still young and still has upside, we have the best catching prospect in baseball and one of the most exciting CF prospects in baseball.

        All under control for years to come.

        • Legit pitcher, really, I mean really. Are you fucking serious.

        • how is that kool-aid anwyay?

          and how low does your self-esteem have to get b4 you feel the need to parrot Rogers’ talking points to burnish your self-image?

      • Wallace was swapped for Gose not D’Arnaud.

        • I shouldn’t have put D’arnaud and Houston in the same sentence. Having said that though, nowhere in there does it say Houston traded D’arnaud for Wallace I assumed everyone knows Gose was the return.
          It just seems like I said that because of them being in the same sentence but if you actually read it, it doesn’t clealry state that.
          Without Hosuton taking Wallace this trade isn’t good.
          It would be Drabek, Wallace,and D’arnaud not D’arnud, Gose, Drabek.

          When AA made that trade Drabek was the cream, then Wallace and then D’arnaud.
          Luckily D’arnaud continued to get better while Wallace and Drabek struggled.
          Luckily Houston wanted Wallace and Gose changed his mechanics or this trade was a fucking bust.
          Halladay for a relif pitcher, a fat david cooper and D’arnaud.
          Drabek is not legit he made 4 good starts and whatever starts he had after that were he allowed only two runs was fucking luck. Even in those game where he only allowed two runs he walked a shit load of batters.
          How about the game where he walked 6, threw 3 wild pitches and still fucking won.
          Drabek is far from legit.

          • How the fuck do you know how much they valued each piece of that trade? Just because you interpreted Drabek as the center piece, how do you know AA doesn’t get up and leave the table if d’Arnaud isn’t included. You don’t, so your entire point here is absolute horse shit.

  9. The popping was just the sound of Rogers execs uncorking another bottle of Dom Perignon in the back of their stretch limo before the all clinked glasses and shared a laugh over how much more money they were able to pocket in personal bonuses and salary raises.

  10. Beh, I’m getting fucking pissed off now. I know I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up, but I genuinely thought this could have been a 90 win club, and I feel like a rube. I’m fucking sick of the failure, the hype, the piss-poor management by John Fucking Farrell, the injuries, the inconsistency, and most of all I’m sick of Fuckass Martinez and Dickface Tabler spouting nonsense all night. Being a fan of this fucking cities’ sports teams is getting to be a little bit too depressing. I’ve been a Jays fan for over 20 years now, and feel tired of eating the sugary spoonfuls of diarrhea.

    At least Colby Rasmus can hit again; sad that’s what I have to be amped about.

    • Agreed. It’s becoming depressing to watch the team. I just focus on individual players now.

      Sadly, when we do get a lead, Farrell decides to send Coco out to blow the game.

      Since this will be another development year, hopefully we will see Snider, Gose, D’Arnaud etc…

      It would also be nice if certain bloggers & jays Talk hosts didn’t get so condescding and keep repeating that we are not suppose to compete in 2010,2011, 2012 ….

      Is it too early to write off 2013 & 2014???

      I wonder if Bloggers & columnists in Batimore keep telling Orioles fans that they are doomed in 2012.

      • Man, the whole Cordero issue has been, to me, the most frustrating part so far. And yet he keeps putting him out there!

        • Putting Cordero is high leverage siutations has been a disaster.

          It’s so rare that the jays have a 1 or 2 run lead lately, why does Farrell insist trying to ruin it.

          It’s not like the Jays owe Cordero anything. He won’t be here next year.

        • The most frustrating part about Cordero are the “fans” who boo him before he throws a pitch. He gave up a hit yesterday and I wanted to punch 41k people in the throat. Ridiculous. He’s been really good the last month and the fans refuse to see it.

    • They ARE a 90 win team … if you count spring training.

      Gee, I guess not spending a dime to improve the team in the off season does pay off. And silly me thought they needed a starting pitcher and a first basemen in the off season.

      • Funny but true. The team is a 90 win team if all players stay healthy & play close to career bests.

        The mistake the jays make is that they assume no regression from Romero,Escobar, Bautista etc…

        The team assumed that Lind would return to 2009 numbers, cecil would improve, Dustin would pitch etc…

        You need depth & that’s what a 120-150 million payroll provides.

        • That’s very true you look at the Redsox and their whole outfield is out basically. No matter who they run out in left it’s still better then the guy we have.

          • I used the redsox as an example but I looked at their outfield at all three postions and their not making a lot.
            Same with all the SP the redsox have thrown out, we should have depth like that… not a lot of money spent.

            The redsox have thown how many outfielders, how many SP out there and were still only one game up… same record tomorrow.

          • and the sox are below the jays.you are a dum dum.

          • @Blue Jays Horoscope, I never sadi we weren’t ahead of the Redsox. i said wow all the bad palyers the redsox run out there with their injuries and we’re still only 1 game up.
            I said come tomorrow we will have the same record.
            Look at the standings we have the same record. yeah, So I was right!

          • I’ll proof read next time, don’t worry.
            How am I a dum, dum, when what I said is true.
            My predictions are better than your’s, you need a new name.

        • Yes, that’s why the Red Sox and Phillies are playing so well with their 170m+ payrolls. Anaheim, Detroit, and Miami, too…156-160 combined, all with +100m payrolls…

      • Jays didn’t spend cause they saw the gapeing holes..LInd, Thames, young starters, colby was at least a question, They sold the 90 wins, (subliminally to a hungry crowd and we all bought it. Nest year though….

    • it’s hilarious that so many moops got their hopes up for a rookie GM and rookie coach; have fun watching your tripleA team you chumps.

  11. “The stuff is nice but when has he missed bats or posted noteworthy results above the high-A level? ”

    He threw a no-hitter for the AA Fisher Cats.

  12. So is Hutchinson now the most consistent starter now? Awesome.

    • Now that is a lot of “now’s”!

      Fuck proof reading!

      • Are you sc2gg? Just wondering; there was an SC caster that went by Chill.

        Also, do you know that guy Brad from Manitooba?

        • No dude. I don’t even know what a “SC caster” is.

          Brad from Manitooba? I might know his cousin’s boyfriend’s room mate, Jeff?

  13. Van persie had a couple of good chances and buried one, just not enough.
    Need new plans now.
    To keep it baseball, I think that German team could beat the Blue Jays… fucking good.

  14. Injuries happen to all teams ll teams. Too bad Jays couldn’t have made more hay up until now while other AL East teams were close by in standings.

    • ll teams? Me grammar good.

    • Agreed. Wilner told us it didn’t matter when we split a series against Oakland & Minnesota because there was 120 games to play etc…

      now that the jays are facing tougher competition they are wilting faster than a rose with no water.

  15. Thay is my point he risked a lot on arms that he thought constituted depth.

  16. Too bad this didn’t happen a month ago…

  17. I think I’ve had enough prospect porn now to last me a good long while. I realize luck has a lot to do with it, but at some point, faced with bad luck season affter bad luck season, maybe the team needs to take a good long look at iits corporate culture and start making some changes. This is a wealthy ownership. They’re certainly expecting us to pay the big bucks for the privilege of watching the game. It is beyond time for them to quit their obsession with the bargain basement.

    • porn!!!!!

    • Agreed. Some days I wonder if the jays decided to hire Farrell & AA because they are good communicators. I hear a lot of double talk from both of them. Beeston is the master of double talk

      I would have thought that AA could smooth over any ruffled feathers that Vladdy had & bring him up after interleague ends.

      It’s not like the Jays have a power bench & it would be a brilliant marketing move for the Jays now that they have a tv broadcast in french with TVA sports & daily game coverage with the Journal de montreal.

      The return of Vladdy in a Jays uniform would have been a public relations bonanza.

      It’s not like taking a wee or two of at bats away from David “chinless” cooper will hurt.

      • oh fuckoff with the vlad bonanza. he is gone so shut up about it. its over and it wasnt anything but an old crippled man trying to comeback. i want wins!

    • +1. I just want to see a goddamned playoff game. I haven’t seen one since I was in grade fucking seven, and I’ll be 31 this year.

      • I was a newbie in Toronto in October 1993 & a World Series parade came down University Avenue & Gerrard near where I used to live. I was happy for the Jays but I was an Expos fan then. Never in my wildest dreams would I believe that 20 years later, the Jays would be behaving like an expansion team with payroll parameters

        • oh now this explains the retarded i want vlad on my new favorite team thought.and then make the statement of the jays behaving like an expansion team. you should limit your posts to equal your baseball knowledge.maybe 1 stupid thought for the day

      • It’s funny that MLSE would probably spend a fortune if there was no salary cap to get the Leafs into the playoffs because they know that a Leafs playoff team would be a bonanza in terms of ticket revenue, merchandise sales etc…

        whereas Rogers is quite happy to operate within their own payroll parameters of 23rd payroll in the MLB when no salary cap exists.

        How will Rogers & Bell get along with MLSE?

        I expect the Jays will eventually be added to the MLSE group because of synergies.

      • There are playoff games every year. Nowadays they’re mostly played by the Rays, Yanks and Rangers

  18. Drabek has shown he can miss bats above a high A level. He won the pitcher of the year award in AA. He has not been able to miss bats above AA.

    Either way, he still sucks shiznit. Too bad we would get little for him in a trade.

  19. admit it, we took it up the ass this week. from Harpers’s home run, to his dissing of the media, to the 3 game sweep, to the Nat’s manager’s dismissive statement about why Bautista even bothered to go back for Harper’s HR, we got fucking reemed these last few days. I’m embarrassed FOR them.

  20. Didn’t think it would go like this, we been skidding for a while now – since The road trip in Tampa. Seems hopeless without Morrow. I’m sure the Jays feel it too. It shows how one player does make a difference. So to those who said one more quality pitcher would not make a difference to our playoff run, it may be time to reconsider your position. Anyway, its next year now fellas. Fuck its spoiler time against the Phillies and summer ain’t even here!

    • it is hilarious to re-read all the posts from fanboys accusing those of us that actually cast a critical informed eye on the roster and the insane moves and position switches and bizarre investments (mcgowan? sigh) that the “ninja” GM made (or didn’t make) as “casual fans”.

      hopefully some fucking lessons get learned and the rush to suck AA’s cock slows down a little bit.

      • At the very least a 5th place finish by the Jays should stop the AA is a ninja moves.

        AA is a very well paid puppet of Rogers. He will do more with an 80 million payroll than most GM’s & has a bright future within the rogers empire when Beeston retires.

        However, how can he sell the fans on a 70-75 win team going into 2013.??

        Can someone from the media ask Farell why Cordero is pitching in non blowout situations???

    • Very true. The standard line now by the Rogers apologists is that 1 player won’t make a difference, which is true, but every player helps.

      Most playoff teams have a balance between pitching/hitting defence etc..

      The Jays are now being reduced to a solo HR or 2 by Bautista or Edwin.

      What infuriates me is that Rogers has enough money to make thee problems go away & they don’t realize that the revenues they earn from a competitive team would offset the 20- 30 million extra in payroll per year to field a competitive team.

      They are acting like the expos, but have the yankees money.

      The yankees are a profitable team by the way.

      • But the Yankees want to win. Rogers wants to make money. As long as TV ratings are up, why should Rogers spend?

        They aren’t selling a winning team. they’re selling hope.

  21. I think you look smarter if you say that you never thought the Jays could compete this year anyways. If you talk about prospects and about competing in 2015 you look like a baseball genius.

    Or there is the other group that like to say well they are only 4.5 gameswith 100 games to go, but that argument like quickly dry up as it become 6,7,8 games out…..
    Or there is the argument that the Jays are a 500 team with upside. That argument might not work for long either as it will be lucky if the Jays will be a 500 team this year. We might have to reconfigure this argument to the Jays are a 400 team with upside.

    • It would take a lot to make me look smarter. Colby looks like a genius compared to me.

    • If I had time , I would go back & review the archives of early 2010. I am sure that 2012 was the suppose to compete year with Lind,Hill , Cecil & Romero & Litsch & Marcum would have a powerhouse team to compete.

      At that time , Bautista & Edwin were scrubs & Wilner wanted Randy Ruiz to be given a chance for an everyday spot & Bautista was a scrub who had chances in Pittsburgh & Tampa Bay & failed.

      Now the team relies on Edwin & Bautista for production.

    • Good point. The key for Rogers is to hype the prospects & preach patience. In theory, this may work . If a bunch of prospects don’t pan out, the financial cost is minimal.

      Under JP Riccardi, the free agent signings bombed & the cost of writing cheques to JP Ryan , Wells , Rios etc was too much.

      The new Rogers strategy is to rebuild the farm system & hope that AA gets enough troubled players from other teams through trades like Escobar,Lawrie,& Rasmus& Morrow

      Will it work???

      Playoffs or Bust.

      • It’s perfectly obvious to me and every other knee jerk reactionary moonbat that this franchise is hopeless and causes retinal cancer. We should trade everybody for Felix Hernandez and a date with Joe Girardi.

  22. So i got $150 worth of gift cards for Jays tickets this year as a gift. I was going to go to the Boston game on June 2 but couldnt make it, had my eye on a couple games coming up, but im the type that isnt as interested if the team is shit, so i dont want to pay $150 to watch this team. Anyone know if the gift cards will be good until 2015?

    • I think you should just use them up this year. Honestly, watching baseball on TV is awesome and it’s 100% extra awesomer in person. If you enjoy the game at all just go and have a good time. It’s a bit silly to say you don’t want to pay to see this team just because they’re a few games back now.
      Of course, the moment a hit is given up, a walk issued, etc…think of me and get up and get outta there asap!

      • Of course, I do actually watch all of every game unless I have to work or be somewhere. I think people around here forget how great baseball is and get overly nit-picky. Sure, it sucks sometimes to never seemingly have meaningful games but it looks like things are at least trending in the right direction. I’ll take this over the JP or Ash days anytime.

        • And with that I officially retire as It’s All Over – the thrill is gone now that I have imitators. Time to come back with a new name!

        • If my analysis is correct, the best team JP Riccardi put together won 87 games in 2006 7 was in second place.

          The best team Ash put together was 88 wins with a fake vietnam vet at 88 wins in 1998.

          The best team AA put together so far was 2010 with 85 wins.

          can AA get past 88 wins?

          • Incredible analysis. You should stop posting this kind of information for free. Make a blog, put up a paywall and watch the money roll in. Once the higher ups notice your blog, AA’s days are numbered.

      • Yeas, it’s fun to go to games in person with the family. I love having a few beers & some hot dogs at the game. But if I have to watch Laffey or Cordero or whatever scrub AA decides to bring up I will throw up the hot dog & beer.

        I have no problem if AA wants to turn the Jays into Rmper Room & bring up kids from AA & AA but I don’t wantto see washed up vets like Cordero blowing games.

        • yeah but you wanted vlad, a washed up vet. will you think before you spout off. fuck man every second post is your contradicting bullshit.go find a friend who can teach you some ball basics and how to make your posts smaller

    • i doubt it. Gift cards usually have an expiry date. I still have many unused tickets in my flexpack which I intend to use.

      For me , I love going to baseball games but I will pick my spots. If laffey is in in the rotation, I won;t show up.

      I don’t want my children exposed to my use of profanity if he pitches.

      It was bad enough that my daughter witnessed my extensive use of profanity when Santo pitched in the home opener & blew the game.

      I already told my kids if Coco Cordero pitches, they should put their hands on their ears to block any sounds i make when he gets close to the mound. :))

  23. I made this argument last year and I want to make it again:

    If the Jays are not going to be ready to compete until 2014-2015, they should think about dealing Bautista because the prospects returned could be be helping the team by then or knocking on the door at least. It is a waste of resources to keep Bautista if the team is just hoping to luck into the playoffs (It’s not going to happen for the Jays in the AL East if you don’t bolster your team). Management should have a pretty good idea soon what players are probably ready to make the jump to the bigs as well as where their major league team is going and what needs filled. GM AA says the team will let him know when it’s ready- it’s screaming dump players to me.

    #swaglostinextrainningmarathonstostarttheseason

    • I think it will be bautista who demands a trade. it can’t be fun having to carry the whole lame ass team on your shoulders. I can’t even begin to comprehend what kind of ransom you ask for. you’re probably looking at 4-5 high end prospects.

    • That’s true from a baseball perspective, but the backlash from fans & the non Rogers controlled media over trading Bautista before he demands a trade would be devastating.

      If AA is smart, he will wait until Batista asks for a trade quietly, so he can maximize the prospects he gets for Bautista.

  24. there’s something wrong with our development team when EVERY prospect of ours can’t compete at the ML level. compare that to tampa, boston etc when their prospects turn into all stars. nava, middlebrooks, hellickson I can’t believe that snider, drabek would be this lost on other teams

    • Nava? Nava? You realize he’s a complete washout of a nonprospect? Go check out even his recent minor league numbers. They are TERRIBLE. The guy has a few good games (which you happen to see) and now he’s a great prospect?

    • You may be onto something. I suspect that Rogers finds it more cost effective to hype the prospects they acquire.

      Also, has anyone wondered that given that Rogers employs many scouts that scouts looking for work would be happy to Hype Jays prospects in exchange for scouting work?

  25. Holy shit, people are dummmmmmb

  26. I can appreciate the passion.
    But step back from the ledge.

    Like seriously, get a fuckin grip.

    • Toronto sports fans everybody. Live in the moment, hate everything “you could do better”, expect nothing but the spectacular every night!

      • They’re all getting like Stoeten,very selective memory.
        They forget where the Jays were and the problems you have to overcome to get to the top.

        • Please explain in more detail.

          Are you saying that the Jays had to wait 8 years since 77 to win the AL East?

        • What the fuck does that even mean, Radar?

          • Poking fun at your expense.You don’t have a selective memory and have been consistant in your opinion.

            I know, don’t poke the bear in case he wakes up.
            Enough ball washing.

            Get a haircut.

      • Conversely, you may well be waiting in perpetuity for a winner. Lifecycling players endlessly as new prospects take over for yesterdays star players, and never fielding a winning team. Toronto fans deserve a winner – not the crap Rogers is selling. Yeah, 2015 is the year alsright, the same time an big ass injury happens to your Ace, and Lauwrie breaks his leg stealing home. Wait at your peril, never win, but always lots of upside.

        • No birddawg.You need players in the minors pushing the players of the majors out.
          I got laughed at for saying the ideal situation is to have every minor team to win their league.
          The jays minor league system was 27th two years ago, now it’s in the top 5.
          That’s a lot of high POTENTIAL players.

          Where would the Jays be now without even that depth.
          Hutch, Drabek,Alverez,Cooper, even Lawrie would still be getting the experience they need in the minors.
          But they have to get that experience at the major league level, when they should be in the minors.
          Why do you think JoJo Reyes ,Patterson,Wyse and others were playing? They were placeholders.
          But now you need to watch 21 and 22 year old players develop at the major league level.
          But the jays shoulda spent 350 million on FA’s and imports to push them over the top?

          • RADAR, Rogers Communications has owned the Blue Jays since late 2000.

            Results?

            Zero playoffs.

            Revenue CAD$12.42 billion (2011)
            Net income CAD$1.74 billion (2011)
            Total assets CAD$18.32 billion (2011)
            Total equity CAD$3.57 billion (2011)

            Rogers is a cheap, pathetic owner of the Blue Jays.

          • Point conceeded, Jays are on the right track, just pissed at what looks like an early end to what I hoped was a playoff run. AA must take all the abuse hurled at him by angry and disappointed fans. I’m sure tired of hearing about upside though, and when AA says it – I wanna sceam “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I WONT TAKE IT ANYMORE!
            There, that feels better

          • I dont buy this young team excuse. Maybe these “young players” they are developing just arent that good. I dont see players like arencibia and escobar developing. Not to mention, they arent that young. In fact, theyre in their mid 20s and regressing. The jays have to decide which players they need to build around. Right now, I dont see much other than lawrie.

          • 28 is the prime year for a ball player, so yeah, they are young. Remember to that Tampa or Washington have won jack. Winning to me is a WS Championship

          • Ah selective memory again Mr Moses.

            The new way to win, to outsmart the Yankees and such was moneyball.Undervalued assests determined by sabermetrics.
            Couldn’t hire Bean so they hired his protege.
            JPR didn’t need scouts, as long as he had the stats.So what if the stats couldn’t be weighted against the level of competition.Stats are stats.

            Except of course in leagues like the PCL.

            When that didn’t produce success,JPR tried to buy or overated his assets.Remember Thomas,Ryan, contracts to Wells,Rios.All leading to the promised land.Add to that his hiring of shitty managers.

            Then MLB started giving the Jays 30 million a year to reward them for being a small market team.

            The new CBA changes that.

          • Exactly Radar, and how did trying to be cheap work out for the success of the Blue Jays.

            Sweet FA.

            As for this new CBA, do not worry, Rogers will continue to weasel its way of being a cheap, pathetic owner.

          • OK, so the minor league teams are doing OK, but they compete against other minor league players.

            There is a reason why players like Jeter, Rodiguez, Pujols & Fielders get contracts worth more than 100 million.

          • Radar, you got laughed at because minor league championships do not equate to having good prospects in the slightest.

  27. The thing I find frustrating is there are so many players on this team taking a huge step back in their development. This should be a big concern right now. The excuse of “we are a young team” is getting old.

  28. RADAR, Rogers Communications has owned the Blue Jays since late 2000.

    Results?

    Zero playoffs.

    Rogers is not poor.

    Revenue CAD$12.42 billion (2011)
    Net income CAD$1.74 billion (2011)
    Total assets CAD$18.32 billion (2011)
    Total equity CAD$3.57 billion (2011)

    As for the Tampa Bay Rays comparisons, the Blue Jays already tried that with J.P.
    They certainly have not tried the New York or Boston spending habits.

    Rogers is cheap.

    • Rogers is definately not poor.
      And the people they hired didn’t get the job done, from Godfrey to JPR.

      So they hired new people.who increased scouting from 17 to 63 people,increased per diems for minor league players,increased spending on International FA’s,increased the draft budget,added an extra minor league team.

      But they didn’t blow 350 million on two players whose talents woulda ben wasted on a team that wasn’t ready. Possibly hindering the future signings needed.
      Rogers rich ..yup
      Rogers stupid …nope.

      • Rogers was stupid for a long time in their penny pinching, see below. To me the smartest things they did was to hire Beeston and AA.

      • Rogers cheap … indeed.

        Rogers stupid enough not to make the playoffs for 12 years … fact.

        Rogers cheap enough to keep that terrible looking current astroturf at Skydome … pathetic

        You can defend them all you want RADAR, but their record has been crap. The buck stops with them, and they have done a mediocre job.

        Wait till they get their hands on the Leafs, Raptors and TFC.

        • Well at least the Leafs and Raptors really can’t get any worse. It’s not like they are taking a winning tradition and ruining it.

          • Rogers is the perfect owner for a salary cap controlled league, because the other teams can’t outspend them.

            In baseball, the red sox, yankees & angels & rangers will do whatever it takes to get the 4 playoff spots out of 5 in th AL.

            They realize that it is easy to sell season tickets to people on a team that is expected to be in the playoffs every year.

            It’s hilarious that Rogers forgets what labatts was able to do with the Jays. Look at them selling skydome boxs for 10 years with guaranteed revenue because the jays from 85-89 were competitive & they were still competitive till 93. the leases expired in 1999.

        • Because the Leafa, Raptors and TFC could get worse?

      • I agree tat it is cheaper to try & build a franchise the way AA is doing with scouts, extra meal money for minor league players , trades for disgruntled players like Lawrie, Escobar Rasmus etc…

        But, is this enough to compete in the AL east???

        AA;s strategy would work in the AL Central & West.

  29. While I’m ranting, where the fuck is Dr. Bell. Sick Bay overflowing and the good Doctor hasn’t been seen. I’m begining to think he’s a ….a….a quack

  30. Fuck it! I’m tired and you can all go fuck yourself

  31. It’s just bad timing, truthfully. We live in a city that is so fucking starved for the slightest bit of hope — especially us Leaf fans — that we get totally stoked when anything remotely promising happens i.e Brett Lawrie. So it sucks when a team like the Washington Nationals and their little cocky cunt of a prospect roll into town and act like they haven’t been the laughing stock of the MLB for their entire existence as a franchise, and sweep us, with us losing a few important assets in the process to injury. Salt in the fucking wound. I am still with AA. I think he has definitely turned this club into the right direction, and yeah within 5 years we might actually see a winning team in the playoffs, but man if we could just catch a fucking break every once in a while it might bring a smile to a man’s face. Particularly for me with the way the Leafs completely imploded, I had hope that we could at least compete with the aging Yankees and Bosox, and possibly sneak in a wild card spot. It’s a long season, and anything is possible but we need to be able to sweep series when we get the opportunity (Chisox) and not throw away games with totally incapable play when it counts (CoCo). I would rather see ANY of our young guys out there throwing than Cordero; at the very least they would be learning to deal with pressure situations, rather than just having that sweaty, pathetic prick flush games down the toilet every third night.

    • I feel your pain.
      Imagine how the Washington fans felt last year and the year before.
      You’re going through that now with the Jays except that the Jays aren’t as bad.So you feel hope that they are closer than they really are.
      Jeeez that was a mouthfull.

      • Yeah, well, Washington got the honour of two great draft picks. Toronto, who continually misses the playoffs (and hasn’t sniffed it since ’93), keeps getting mid first round picks. When they do get higher picks, they select Adams over Votto.

    • Very good post.

      2012 was the year when the Jays could sneak into the playoffs with the red sox on the ropes & the yankees weaker than normal.

      Now it looks like Baltimore will be playing meaningful games in July & August.
      Rays, & Yankees get into the playoffs from the Al East.

      Jays finish 5th.in the AL east.

    • I like to think that Lloyd Moseby is actually saying that.

  32. But we are one of youngest teams and this team is going to probably get younger next year as well if you insert d’Arnaud, Snider, Gose or Hech full time.

    I think there’s some justification for the anger towards Rogers not necessarily for what they did this past winter but for the early years of JPR’s reign. Like typical corporate asses they came in and slashed and burned everything to the ground before realizing it might not be the best way to do things. Unfortunately, the ramifications of that were long-term even though management and the media failed to see that was going to the be case.Years of cheap signable picks made with the bare minimum of scouting and general lack of spending on talent cost this team. If you think about it, it takes 3-4 years for a the good top ceiling high school prospects to make their way to the majors and maybe another year or so of adjustments in the majors to be really productive. Maybe its shorter if they are exceptional but you don’t see many guys at 21 making big impacts for most clubs (Harper and Trout the rare exceptions).

    Go back at look at what we drafted from 2005-2008 and tell me who we have making major contributions at the major league level today? There’s no high school players and for college players you’ve got Romero, JPA, and Cooper on the current roster. Then you’ve got the next batch in Snider, Cecil and Thames in AAA that have helped in a limited fashion followed by Rzepczynski and Pastornicky who we were able to package to get a couple of other players. Out of the 4 drafts covering those years Romero has been the only real success. As for the international arena, you’ve had some small limited success with Alvarez and potential help in Sierra. Molina might offer an eventual reward one day if Santos doesn’t turn out to be another Mike Sirotka.

    As we’re seeing now with guys like Sanchez, Syndergaard, Norris and all the other high ceiling prospects that AA has drafted since 2010, the time line for those guys helping the club is lengthy. You’re looking at two more years at best for the real superstars like Sanchez and Syndergaard but probably more. Even then there’s no guarantee they’ll be stars.

    Rogers put this team in a big deep hole during the last decade. Even when they started to spend in 2006 it was just money that masked the problems they created initially as there wasn’t the organizational depth to back up the acquired talent.

    I think AA has done a pretty good job considering what he had to work with. It doesn’t help now but the fruits of his initial labour probably won’t be really seen for another year or so. You’re starting to see some it now with guys like Morrow, Rasmus and Lawrie but the rest is going to take time.

    What Rogers can do now to make things right imo is spend a little more this winter at the MLB level to bridge the gap. Ironically, that’s probably the only spot they’ll have to spend thanks to the new shitty CBA so their hand will be forced in a good way and at the right time. Hell they might even have to overpay, just like JPR once did to get guys to come here initially but that’s part of the price you pay when you’re not exactly a premier player destination.

    Admittedly, management hasn’t done itself many favours by being aggressive with their promises. The true lack of talent culled from those drafts has ultimately limited the potential gains in the short-term even if management believed otherwise. Lets be honest, you’re not going to win a championship with the Brett Cecil’s or JPA’s of the world playing major roles on your roster.

    Again this team is on the right track imo, it’s just going to take a bit longer than they promised.

    • And in your opinion, how much longer?

      Another 12 years?

      • No way. Two years tops, sooner, if they get the right pieces via trades and free agency. As I’ve been saying the last couple of days, once healthy, and once clear of schlubs like Cordero and Frasor this team will have a good August and September imo.

        Between the high ceiling position prospects like d’Arnaud and Gose and the serious power arms like Stroman, Farina and Stilson you’ve got a real nice infusion on the way. Add those to players like Lawrie who will be more experienced and guys hitting their prime like Rasmus and EE and there’s tons to be positive about and that’s not even mentioning a starting staff that’s averaging 24.2 years in age.

        • No offence night, but I have been hearing about the Jays “future” for the last 10 years from Jays management.

          • No offense taken man. Believe me I know where you’re coming from but I’m truly believing they’ve gone back to the methods that made them successful in the 80′s and early 90′s. As I’ve said this team reminds me a lot of the Jays from 82-84. A real good core of young guys with some solid veterans. No question there’s more than one piece to add but I do think it’s coming.

          • Two different regimes. You can’t place the years JPR failed at retooling onto AA while he does a rebuild. JPR failed at trying to retool the club, but retools are meant to be quick. AA’s in Y3 of a rebuild, and rebuilds take time. Teams as young as the Jays are now don’t often see success in Y3.

            2013 is where I expect improvement, 2014 I expect contention, and 2015 I expect playoffs.

            But, I have patience and am understanding of the time it takes to develop a team. How many years and #1 picks did it take TB? Exactly. AA’s way ahead of that.

    • You’re right. But remember when AA took over and up to this year,he had to carry those players to produce the extra draft picks. If you sign FA’s,back then,they would take up the roster spots that produced the draft picks.
      The window of oppurtunity was small to gain those picks.
      I have no proof but I got a feeling Beeston knew this would be changed in the new CBA and tried to take advantage before the loophole was closed.
      Wouldn’t be the first time somebody used his connections at a former place of employment.

      • The beauty about a lot of those players is that they produced exceptionally well for what they were. Lets remember those were holes that needed to be filled by someone anyway. It’s to AA’s credit he picked guys that were able to help in the short-term and then turn around make a potential killing off them with draft picks.

    • Very good post.

      It’s funny that AA went wild under the old CBA & picked up as many draft picks as possible to build a team. They call him the asset collector.

      It will take till 2014 & 2015 to see them make a difference with the Jays.

      At that time the Jays will be saying goodbye to Jose Bautista, Ricky Romero & Brandon Morrow because they will be unwilling to pay the free agent value they will be worth if they continue to play well.

      • What’s with the negative waves Oakville?
        If you think it will be there, it will be there.
        (Apologies to Donald Sutherland).
        Bautista and Romero are signed through 2015 with a club option for 2016.
        A lot can happen by then and a whole new crop of players.
        You probably complain in 2015 “Why is Romero blocking Syndergaurd?”DFA him.

        • Growing up as an expos fan, I witnessed a good expos team in 1979 & 1980 fall a few games short of winning a pennant. No wild card teams in those days.

          I saw a 1981 expos team finally make the playoffs & be 1 game short of making the world series when Rick mnaday hit aHR off steve rogers.

          Fast forward to 1993 & moving to Toronto to see a world series parada from my appartment in downtown toronto.

          Watching the 1994 expos leading the mlb in august 1994, & having the world series cancelled.

          I have become a die hard jays fan since 2009.

          I knew that the expos always had financial issues that prevented them from competing.

          I don’t understand why Rogers is so counter intuitive in maximizing revenue .

          They seem to be obsessed with cost control.

          • Same with MLSE oakville69

            I think it is indicative of the corporate culture that exists in Toronto.

            Mediocrity rules.

          • fuck man shut up.you are now repeating yourself.fucking french horn windbag son of a bitch.

  33. I’ll make this easy for everyone.

    This is not a baseball organization where the number one goal is wins, losses and championship as The primary means to maximize attendance, merchandise, concessions and broadcast revenues for ownerships profit.

    This is a subsidiary content provider of a multi national, multi platform telecommunications company. The number one goal is to provide a vast quantity of affordable content across various media platforms with a secondary goal of creating additional profit on high mark-up acilliary products. Think tickets, concessions and Made In China swag

    Through this alternate lense, let’s look closer. A total organizational budget is approx $100MM. This includes major league payroll, stadium staff and operations, as well as minor leage operations, scouting and player development. To avoid a splitting of hairs argument lets inflate by 20%. And say $120MM all-in.

    Split this across 162 games and organizational cost is $740M per game, or alternatively assuming 3.5 hours of broadcast content for TV a programming cost of $210M per half hour of programming. If The TV division absorbs the entire cost, then it provides radio 4.5 hours of free content. Likely though there is an accounting split of the content cost, but in reality it’s just left pocket-right pocket stuff.

    Considering they deliver approx 600 to 700M viewers to Tv and 250M to to radio ( a 2.5 share seems realistic?) and that a million eyes and ears at a cost of approx. $0.75 each for a gain of an unknown amount of advertising dollars. The fact that it is unknown is irrelevant as the mark up is effectively infinite.

    With food typically marking up 60%, alcohol 100%, Made In China swag 500% and tickets near infinite thanks to $25MM sweetheart acquisition cost and we can quickly see that the Toronto Blue Jays have been a terrific subsidiary for Rogers. A company whose typical rate of return would be approx 25%

    The moral of the story is this team is doing everything right in its core business. It’s executives and management will be handsomely rewarded and extended a long rope provided the sustainability of this rate of return and they keep co-axing the goose to keep laying to golden egg.

    This folks, is major league sports in the 21st century.

    If anyone is so inclined, compare the above cost of programming with NHL, nba, or nfl broadcast fees and you’ll truly appreciate how beneficial this arrangement is to Rogers

    • Yup.
      Your numbers are a little conservative compared to mine.

      Branding and content for ALL platforms including those not yet available will drive the Jays payroll and expenditures.
      Forget attendance, although that would be nice.
      They already created 10 to 20 million per year JUST on subscription fees for Sportsnet One. That doesn’t include advertising revenue.
      If ya need the link I got it.

    • I think you nailed it.

    • Of course it’s beneficial to them. It’s a business after all and for all that we like to say about their handling of the Jays, they’re exceptionally good at making money. At least they were finally smart enough to hire a couple of guys like Beeston and AA that understand what it’s going to take and are allocating the resources properly for the most part. You can always argue that there should be more resources and believe me I’ve been a champion for that cause but at the end of the day they have to work with what they’re given. I think they know they made mistakes initially after buying the team and when they gave JPR the money to expand payroll that was their way of admitting it. Unfortunately, JPR took the quickest route and went all in on free agents when he should have built up the scouting and amateur spending again. AA seems to have fixed that mistake.

    • It’s been linked a few times but you’all seem like a fun bunch and might like this..

      http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-upcoming-cba-and-the-battles-within-it-part-2-revenue-sharing/

      Still wonder why Rogers did what it did back then?
      The new CBA no longer lists The Jays as a small market team.

    • A an accountant with some experience in this area, I agree with you. I spent part of the winter trying to explain to other posters the value of broadcast rights, concession revenue etc..

      Beeston himself gave an interview to CA magazine about the success of the Jays & how easy it is ti turn a loss into a profit & vice versa.

      The merchandise sales for the Jays are shared with other teams.

      Part of the gate receipts of the Jays are shared with opposing teams.

      Rogers is hoping that a bunch of kids will be easier for fans to watch than spending 200 million

      on a free agent who can flop like wells or rios.

      The key matrics to watch are jays tv ratings, website unique visitors, attendance etc..

    • “This folks, is major league sports in the 21st century.”

      It’s no different than Major League Sports during the 20th century (and I’m sure the 19th century as well if we wanted to go back to the earliest days of professional sport). The only difference is that the players were being screwed with for most of the century as much or more than the fans.

    • +hall of fame post

  34. I am on the Fuck Rogers bandwagon…inclined to get one of those ugly dishes attached to the side of my house, instead of paying Rogers, assholes.
    but ya, we are a 490 team with upside.

    • I’m with you. Can’t stand Rogers since the negative billings thing.Shitty customer service and you have to pay through the nose for their services.

  35. It’s funny how the thread starts with Drabek’s elbow and ends like this.

    I’ve been telling Stoeten for years, I come to DJF partially for the posts and equally for the comment section.

    • Definitely makes a good place for discussion or least it’s a good spot for me to blather like an idiot most nights lol

      • Agreed. I now use my iphone to look a the comments section during day games.
        I love that the site is now compatible for iphones.

    • I agree RADAR . Too bad stoeten and Parkes devolved from passionate, smart ass and occasionally drunk jays fans to hipster-Wilner wannabe-contrarians-apologists that speak out of both sides of their mouth

      But hey, they Scored a sweet and paying gig so…RESPECT

      …pun intended

      I do hope they go back to their roots and not just caricatures of themselves though…or fully evolve into credentialed journalist. This middle ground is not what got them their success to date

      • I am planning to call into wilner’s show soon. I can get an archive of his shows on my iphone & intend to call him out on his absurb claims.

        He loves catching nervous callers off guard.

        Remember the Jays were on pace for 95 wins a few weeks ago using small sample sizes…

        I am baffled why Parkes & Stoeten would join the Jays apolologist crowd.

        The Score is in direct competition with Rogers.

        The score would benefit from having smart fans call out rogers for their poor management & cheap philosophy.

      • @ Out west

        Agreed. But you can’t stop evolution.
        Stoeten has stated he’s not a journalist and doesn’t aspire to it. We’ll see where he is in 5 years.
        They both are extremely thin skined when it involves any critique.but there has been an improvement over the years with their presentation.
        Even Parkes is less douchy since he got reamed.
        Unfortunately, it has turned into DJF LITE.Censorship is the new mantra. Stoeten banning people ,Drew deleting comments for fear of liable,Stoeten removing comments because he disagrees with them.

        But thats the price of popularity and moving towards the mainstream.
        It;s still the best blog and I’ve learned a ton of stuff from the other commenters.Even had plenty of laughs.

        • +1

          For the hours spent following this little blog I wish them much success.

          I must say watching a getting blank podcast for the first time…they could go mainstream…with a bit more polish AND strength of conviction

          Fairservice was particularly impressive and is probably ready for regular TV rotation now

          • @ out west
            Ditto
            I’ve told them that many times.
            The little blog that grew.
            The podcast and daily video was really rough at the beginning. When Drew appeared he seemed to moderate and smooth things out. More focused.
            Of course Stoeten flipped out called me every name in the book but shortly after Drew was fulltime moderator.
            Made the whole thing much more polished.
            Even Stoeten’s interviews on the Fan have been better. More to the point,concise and easier to listen to, informative.
            Jeez the first time he was on the Fan he was babbling away and failed to get the points acoss or answer questions.
            now much better.
            Drew has the voice for the media also.
            But I’m still amazed at the quality of the commenters.Yeah there’s some assholes but overall great place to read, learn and debate.
            I explained to Stoeten,to me, DJF is like a bar, just shooting the shit with a bunch of baseball nuts.
            I’m still too dense to figure out there’s probably more than 5 people reading this.
            They probably want me to shut my fuckin mouth more.
            But hey, I’m old,what the fuck do I care.

          • +2.

            I do like the blog & the podcasts.

          • “Of course Stoeten flipped out called me every name in the book but shortly after Drew was fulltime moderator.”

            Radar, do you not remember why I did that? Because you took it upon yourself to “explain” in here why that happened, and how I reacted to the move, despite the fact that you had no insight into the situation whatsoever, you were entirely making it up.

          • @ Stoeten

            Yes I speculated without inside information, only based upon observations.
            It’s a fucking blog,people speculate all the time.
            I’m wrong, okay. Doesn’t mean I’m coming over to rub your belly for luck.
            Guess what? People speculate on what Rogers is up to also.

            Try to follow the positive here.Your media empire is evolving and getting better.

    • I was expecting Stoeten to show up & start calling us whiners.

      I am fascinated by the business side of Rogers & how they are using the multi platforms to create revenue streams for the team.

      There was an article in the globe & Financial Post how Rogers,Telus make money from overcharging for extra bandwith on cell phones compared to USA phone companies.

      Think of the revenue generated on cell phones if the jays were in a pennant race in september & played a day game.

      bandwith is much more expensive in Canada than the USA.

  36. Matt Cain with the perfect game. Makes me wish we traded Rios for him :(

  37. hey manimal, I must be blind but please tell me who this young core group is?

    • Rasmus, Lawrie, Bautista, EE (if they extend him which they should), Escobar (off year but we’ve seen how good he can be), maybe even Snider.

      Pretty much all the starting staff with Drabek being the exception but again he’s had 8 pretty good starts this year as well vs the 5 bad ones. Not a horrible guy to have as your 6th starter.

      Santos, Perez, Janssen in the pen.

      That’s what on the roster now.

      There’s some real nice power arms I like that we’ll have hopefully by the end of the year in Stroman and Farina. You might even see Stilson moved there if not into the rotation by the end of next year.

      There’s d’Arnaud and Gose for position players with Hech being a potential starter and at least a good utility guy.

      Bautista might not be on the young side but I’m talking over the next two years. During that period with the shape he’s in, I can see him being a huge part of the lineup.

      There’s a very good possibility there’s going to be more money for free agents next year simply because they won’t be able to spend it on the draft and international free agents. I’m guessing that’s going to be a minimum of $5 million. Combine that with the fact we should be able to get $14 million off the books between Teahan, Frasor and Cordero right off the bat next year and you’re looking at roughly $19 million to reallocate before you take into account the $10 million that EE and KJ are making. Personally, I’d throw KJ another $1.5 million or so and EE at least $5 mil.

      • well played manimal

        when I say core, I mean players you know are going to be good.

        rasmus may have turned the corner, I’ll give him that but I’m not convinced. lawrie has regressed badly. show me an elite hitter who regressed so badly in his second year. escobar seems to sitting on his fat contract, but yeah he should be a lot better. EE and KJ are not under contract next year so they can’t be considered core. snider hasn’t proven anything. so maybe you’re looking at 3-4 players, far cry from 9.

        most of the starters do appear to be good, but they are unproven. only 1 guy has pitched more than 180 ip in a season.

        I’l only give you jansen. perez is not that great. and santos is not proven. he had 1 good year.

        the jays haven’t developed an elite bullpen arm in 10 years so I’m not holding my breath.

        d’arnaud appears to be elite so I’ll give you him, but not gose or hech since we have no idea.

        so I’m not convinced that the jays core is any better than any other teams core.

      • It just seems to be a glass is half full look at it.

        12 years night_manimal seems enough of a long time to have a decent team.

        12 years Rogers has owned the team with zero playoffs.

        I can only go by their track record. Nothing in their make-up or actions suggests breaking out of their habits.

        Rogers & the Jays management were talking about the future 10 years ago.

        Promises, promises.

      • one thing I’ve noticed is looking at baltimore. their starters are .500 but their bullpen is 9 above. and this shows in the 1 run and extra in record. I think this shows how to build a winning team, get power arms in the bullpen to hold those leads. if the jays simply had played .500 in 1 run games they’d only be 2 back.

      • you also fail to consider that alex has failed to improve the bullpen for 2 straight years. what makes you conifident he’ll do it this time? and he’s assembled the worst bench in the history of the game. he didn’t get a veteran starter or bat. these are major flaws which lead me to believe he doesn’t really know how to assemble a major league roster.

        • I understand that better than most considering I’ve been harping about the pen all season. However, I truly think there’s some good power arms on the way by the end of this year. Unfortunately, only time will tell, just as only time will tell if AA’s rebuild pays off.

    • You must be blind grouchy.
      Try reading the post on DJF “geetings fron Dunedin”.
      I’m sure Ankrom would appreciate it.

  38. What does AA say when this team doesn’t win more than 81 games.
    2010 85, 2011 81 2012 78 is my guess, he says the team is better yet they’re going to have a worse record again.
    EE was carrying the fucking team for the longest time, without him we could only have 18 wins(maybe) There is no fucking way AA thought EE had upside he might have said it, but why has he traded him, demoted him so many times if he had upside.
    Point is AA couldn’t find someone to take EE place in 2011, and then saw EE after the all star break and decided 3.5 million wasn’t a lot, so he brought him back. But no way he thought EE would be hitting like he has. One word to describe any success AA has had at the major league level… luck.
    Look who’s carrying the team day in and day out Jose, EE, Morrow.. luck.
    All those guys were nothing until recently. Jose 2010, EE 2011, Morrow 2012 where’s all the players that were actually supposed to be good. Granted Morrow had the stuff just hadn’t put it together but EE and Jose were done in a lot of people’s minds
    Can you imagine if the scrubs that were brought in as bodies over the years hadn’t turned into all stars… fuck knows.

    • Actually, they did know EE could hit. What he couldn’t do was play 3rd.It was even mentioned when he was acquired all bat no arm.The nickname “E5″ actually comes from Cinci fans.
      As for luck. AA has an army behind him advising him,from Lacava to several former GM’s to cross checkers to 3 video cross checkers to sabermetricians on staff.Yes, he makes the final decision and can overrule everybody but be assured there are a bunch of minds better than you or I that agree with him before acts.
      Luck helps,but an awful lot of thought has already gone into the process.

    • Wow, I can only shake my head….

  39. Holy shitballs…based on most of the comments here, it would seem all you naysayers must’ve thought kyle drabek was the key to winning 90 games or a title.

    Give it a rest….

    • No, but that is what is being sold to Jays fans from Jays management and the media hype.

      Rogers Communications is a cheap, pathetic owner of a MLB team.

    • This shit devolves, quick. Some interesting points still.

  40. The organizational philosophy of this regime is very much anti big contract free agent. The notion that they will “add the big free agent” when they are one or two players away is a rouse. It simply does not fit into the system being employed. I am neither saying this is good or bad. This is just what it is.

    The success of this organization will ultimately rest on these two things.
    -internal player development
    -trades

    sure there will be free agent signings here and there, but they will be of the coco/oliver variety..never of the fielder/cj wilson type. It simply does not fit with the plan. I dont care how big a payroll the team claims it is allotted, Alex just doesn’t believe in going that route

    • I think you’re right. If theyare going to spend big money, it will be on contract extensions for their home grown talent.

      If he team is convinced to build internally, the make sure you’re hitting & pitching coach develops the talent properly.

      It is worrisome that the hitters seem to regress when they get to Toronto

      • @Oakville69
        Do you sleep?
        12:23 AM and 6:33am comments? Thats dedication.

        • no. a rambling incoherent, repetitive french accountant bitch is more like it.

          • Keep it classy.

            Why are you resorting to personal insults?

            If you disagree with what I say then make your own arguments about the teams progress.

            Calling Vladimir Guerrero washed up is silly when he had a better Ops than many jays.

  41. At the start of the season Vegas had the Jays at 81 wins for the over under. I thought this was ridiculous, didnt figure they would actually regress from last year. I thought this was a sure bet, I even tried to get down to vegas to throw a G note on the Jays for the season.
    Those fuckers in Vegas really do know what they are doing dont they?

    • Team improvement isn’t always linear.

    • How do you explain Baltimore? Or the Phillies?

      Season is well underway but there is still time for a team like the Jays to move up in the rankings. Realistically, it won’t likely happen, not with Morrow on the DL and Drabek perhaps joining him soon. And that promising bullpen that AA constructed is pretty much now in shambles, except for Janssen, Perez and Oliver.

      Despite being world beaters in spring training, most prognosticators had the Jays finishing 4th with the caveat that the team is going in the right direction. AA was busy last trade season. Let’s see what happens in 2012 in what should be a very big sellers market.

      Now is not the time to panic and to jump off the cliffs with thoughts of Joe Carter rounding the bases on his dramatic touch em all HR.

      The Jays have plenty of young talent in the system. A careful injection of this talent on an already young team could be the tipping point for the Jays. But its still too early. My feeling is that AA and Beeston are content to play out the season, make a minor deal here or there, and wait for the next wave to come up.

  42. Story from Atlanta about some guy crashing Braves alumni event posing as former Blue Jays coach John Sullivan

    http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/impostor-crashes-braves-alumni-1456183.html

  43. HOLY SHIT HOW DO Y’ALL LIVE WITH TWO FISTFULLS OF SAND IN YOUR SAD LITTLE VAGINAS?

  44. Everyone needs to chill. Been a Blue Jays fan since the 70′s. As much as I’d love to have playoff baseball again, I don’t want to be a one-year fluke team. AA is building (what was a cratered franchise) what is going to be a contender for a decade. The Blue Jays are going to be like the Braves of the 90′s. It takes time….

    This team clearly could compete this year – but some guys aren’t what we thought they were (Drabek, Lind), Santos has given us zero so far and unfortunately closing games has been a nightmare & LF has been a disaster. I’m losing faith in Escobar – don’t think he can cut it as an above average SS.

    I think for this trade break – deal Escobar – with his friendly contract, maybe we can bring a good pitcher, then bring up the kids.. I don’t want to see McCoy & Visquel on roster at same time. If Visquel is here to mentor Hech , I’m OK with that, just not both (only need one utility IF) – I’d rather see Gomes out in LF (even if he isn’t a good fielder) , then McCoy

    • I’ll believe it when I see it.

      I have been hearing about the “future” from the Jays for the past 10 years now.

      Clearly, Rogers Communications does not want a winner.

      But Rogers would sure love it if people “chilled” and kept on saying next year, next year.

      Promises, promises, excuses, blah, blah, blah, BS.

      • “Clearly Rogers Communications does not want a winner”

        Are you fuckin stupid?

        Your brain must be the size of a peanut. Every ownership in the history of sport says “we want to win we are going to try and win”, regardless of how good or bad their team is.

        You probably think that we would be in first had we signed Prince and Mark Buehrle right?

        Get a life, you are a joke.

        • Everey team says they want to win, but by their actions you can tell that they are really not interested in winning.
          its like how everyone says they would like to be rich, but their actions dont show it, like not working.

        • If you put together a plan that would 100 percent guarantee a World Series victory but would involve Rogers’ EPS dropping by 0.01 for a year, it would be voted down unanimously.

          That’s not a commitment to winning, that’s a commitment to revenue maximization. You can’t blame them, they’re a public company and they have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder returns.

          This is why corporate ownership of sports franchises should be prohibited, and is in some leagues (NFL for instance). Things are a lot more fun if you have someone like Mark Cuban who wants a championship and is willing to spend some dough even if he doesn’t have a financial model that clearly shows how he’ll make a 20 percent return on every dollar invested.

          AA will always be measured on EBITDA. It isn’t even dollars per win because Rogers doesn’t care about winning as long as the revenue is there. Of course there is a correlation and it’s up to AA to demonstrate how additional expenditures could lead to a better team, which could lead to higher revenues.

          Speaking of which, it looks like attendance is up by around 20 percent (though that will tail off soon) and TV numbers have increased too. Do you think that means we’ll see a 20 percent higher budget (which would maybe even crack 100 mil) next year? Yeah, me neither.

          • You have to remember that AA and Beeston have said on several occasions that Rogers has never denied them on a request for money. It is the management that is building this team. Of course they likely need to present the transaction in a convincing way to ownership but lets keep this in mind. The “Rogers is Cheap” thing is a quick and easy way to point blame for a losing team but its just not all-encompassing like people want to think.

            There is no way AA is measured by EBITDA alone. This is an investment for Rogers, meaning acquiring assets that will be valuable in the long run and strengthening a brand which generates revenue are just as important as a current income statement.

        • Go fuck yourself Fat fuck. I wonder if you would insult me to my face?

          • Clearly, you have the right to be called stupid when you say that the owner of a team does to want the team that it owns to win. .. wow that kinda sounded Wilnerish.

          • does not want the team…* Ok, I’m dumb too

  45. Looks like the Rogers apologists have officially moved their perpetual “two years away” goal posts to 2015.

    • Isn’t 2015 when most contracts are up?

      Don’t poke the apologists. They are easily angered.

    • I don’t usually make proclamations like this, but I’ll give you my internal “goal”:

      To me, its next year. Next year’s the year they HAVE to start competing. I say this for a few reasons:

      - Jose Bautista isn’t getting any younger, and at some point we’re going to start seeing a decline. He’s not going to fall off a table, but it’ll happen. You have to take advantage of having one of the best hitters in the game in his prime.

      - Paul Beeston made the following declaration prior to the season: “In the next five years, I would expect that we would be in it [note: the playoffs] two to three times,”. If they don’t make it this year (unlikely, but not unexpected), that leaves 2-3 times in the following four years. If next year you don’t compete, that’s 2-3 times in the next 3 years. I know what Beeston said isn’t a guarantee, but that leads me to point #3:

      - The Jays currently have (what appears to be, anyway) a pretty interesting tenuous relationship with their fan base. People expect a lot, seem pretty jaded, have been led down the path of “5 year plans” and such nonsense. Beeston’s statement above doesn’t do anything to change that if it doesn’t happen. If the Jays are competing until the very end of the season, people are going to start quoting that like they did with JPR.

      - Next year will be year 4 of AA’s tenure. He’s done a fantastic job (in my opinion) building this team from the ground up to this point. But at some point, the rubber has to meet the road. It isn’t all about the minor league system, and I think he knows that (I remember this offseason he said he was done with the minor league system and was looking to make improvements to the big league club). “His” prospects will start hitting the big league club full-time next year.

      • 1) I completely agree about bautista.
        2) Beeston is such a fucking bullshitter. No fan with half a brain should believe anything he says.
        3) A lot of fans are becoming impatient and are fed up with medicority (myself incl.) and rightfully so. Rogers has to start spending $ on improving the major league roster. Its nice theyve put $ toward the minor leagues but a lot of teams do that. Even the small market teams.
        4) Agreed.

      • Very good post. I hope the jays take 2013 seriously& put together a team on paper that should win 90 games

      • Your internal goal is your goal.

        AA has steered clear from picking a year where the Jays will contend. You can make up your own goals but that does not mean it will happen. If the Jays don’t contend in 2013 then that means they won’t contend?

        To say that it is not about the minor league system is a ridiculous statement in so many ways. It is about the minor league system. Building a strong system from the ground up with high ceiling talent generally produces good major league players. It goes hand in hand and eventually all that hard work will lead to success in the majors. It took all of the 80′s to build the Jays, it took Jon Daniels 5 years to turn the Rangers into a playoff team. It took the Rays and Nationals years of futility before they became good. And whats the common reason why each of these teams became good – their minor league system had high impact talent.

        There is no easy fix here. JPR left the cupboard barren and the team full of really bad contracts. Its taken AA three years to climb out of that rubble. And yes its been 20 years of so called rebuilding but its also been 20 years of bad trades, poor farm systems and general mismanagement. AA deserves a little rope here given how much high impact talent he has added to the major and minor league roster in the last 3 years with 2 more high ceiling talents ready to take over in the next few months (Gose and D’Arnaud). Just to put it in a little perspective – the Jays got Morrow,Rasmus and Escobar for peanuts. The Jays called up a top 10 minor league talent last season (Lawrie) and they now have a top 5 minor league talent in AAA ready to be called up this year. When was the last time that happened?

        Yes it sucks right now to lose, but there are lots of good things happening which eventually will turn Toronto into a contending team. I don’t know when but I do know know that the way its being done is the right way of doing it.

        • HOLY FUCK, EL DUDERINO! SOMEBODY ACTUALLY GETS IT!

          +10000000000000

          • Add all the other teams draft and international signings to their payroll… not so hot now.
            Not taking a side for high payroll or build within. Just want to make sure your fair to all the other teams that spend on all that shit too.

        • Rogers Communications went with J.P. for the moneyball strategy.

          How did it work out? Zero playoffs.

          For the past 11 seasons, the highest the team went in wins was 87, for a 2nd place finished in the AL East.

          There were five 3rd place finishes, one 5th place and for the last four seasons, the Jays have placed 4th.

          Rogers has not spent more than $100 million on a season.

          http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blog/data/79896–how-the-toronto-blue-jays-payroll-stacks-up

          • In 2010 and 2011 the Jays spent $30-million more in the draft and internationally than they did in 2009 and 2008. If they’d have added half of that to this year’s $85-million payroll, it would hit the magical $100-million mark. Fortunately, they spent it much more wisely.

          • Are you implying that AA is using the same ‘moneyball’ strategy to build this club that JPR did?

            Included in the moneyball strategy is steering clear of high school players and picking college seniors almost exclusively in the draft, which, fuckface, has not been the case for the Blue Jays if you’ve been following the 3 drafts

        • Your right AA didn’t set a date. Unfortunately for him though Beeston did “2014″… BABY!
          Or was it next year… can’t remember.

  46. Im not saying blow cash like a drunken sailor on stupid long term contracts, but its Rogers Communications. They have tons of money and are making a decent profit off the Jays. Its not like the Jays are owned by a small company or a family that has to penny pinch. If they wanted to, they could be spending right up there near the top of the league.
    The Dome would be sold out and the TV ratings would be through the roof with a championship team.
    People are getting pissed at the wait until next year theme and pissed that the season is over, from a competitive stand point (ya the “dreamers”) half way through June.

  47. the worst thing that could happen is for jays attendance to go up. it’s like asking GM to build fuel efficient cars when they are selling a million SUV’s. as long as attendance goes up it justifies beeston not spending any money. it would just eat into profits. fans need to start rioting and boycotting this team otherwise nothing will change

    • Except if attendance actually goes down then they say “we can’t spend because we have to keep costs in line with revenues.”

      The problem is that we don’t have media who will ask the tough questions. If attendance goes up this year and Rogers keeps the budget the same or lowers it in 2013, the media needs to hold management to what they said before. Obviously Beeston isn’t going to say “why spend more, the fans are coming out now and it would just eat into profits” so at the very least he’d have to find a different excuse, and run the risk of a backlash.

      Unfortunately, nobody will ask the tough questions so Rogers will get to set the tone and it will all be about the prospects, we’ll compete when we’re ready, we put a value on every player, and so on.

      • what media? rogers owns sportsnet, which owns the fan so you will get no criticism there. and the print media are pretty stupid and really what result would there be from writing a scathing article? nothing. when fans continue to support the leafs do you really think jays fans would be any different?

        • Although that’s a convenient explanation, I don’t think it’s just about Rogers controlling the media. Some of the Rogers guys like McCown actually shit on the Jays a fair bit. It’s really only Wilner who (still) thinks AA can do no wrong and everything is awesome. The problem is that guys like McCown target the wrong people/ideas and are generally retarded about baseball. If they could spend less time complaining about how Rasmus sucks dick or how AA should have signed Heath Bell, they’d have more time to spend on the real issues, like why we couldn’t have signed someone like Edwin Jackson, why the whole Lind thing was handled so terribly, why the team can’t hit and why the young players are regressing so much.

          • Mccowan doesn’t seem to be aware of Rasmus,s excellent defense. He is also hitting well in the 2 spot.

        • “rogers owns sportsnet, which owns the fan so you will get no criticism there.”

          Sorry, but that’s bullshit.

          I listen to The Fan a lot and there are some hugely critical hosts on the station. Greg Brady is super negative on the Jays. Blair, Brunt, Grange, McCown and Zaun all acted completely pissed off this past offseason that the Jays didn’t spend money and make a big splash on someone like Fielder.

          • Truthfully, Fan hosts are far more like the ‘Why isn’t Rogers spending money’ commenters on here than the ones who don’t have their balls twisted about it.

  48. Kids day, school events (there was face painting and stuff). Most of those tickets would have been free or drastically reduced prices.

  49. attendance was 41k for a day game. ????

  50. Oakville69, PLEASE STOP SAYING MIND-NUMBINGLY STUPID THINGS!

    • Can you please clarify what is stupid?

      Is it pro Guerrero comments?

      Is it comments about Rogers business model?

      Is it about timeline to compete?

      • You weren’t pro Guerrero, you suggested there was some kind of cash bonanza the Jays pissed away by not bringing him up.

        You cited MLSE’s stewardship of the Leafs as a model, because without the salary cap they’d spend to get into the playoffs– which worked so well.

        You called AA a “puppet” of Rogers, and asked if he could sell a 70-75 win team.

        You seem to not think the Orioles are terrible.

        You created a strawman, saying that “the standard line now by the Rogers apologists is that 1 player won’t make a difference,” which has no basis in reality, and you put intellectually dishonest screws to Wilner’s attempts at calming people down who want to go off the deep end when the team loses a series to Oakland in April.

        You said, “It’s hilarious that Rogers forgets what labatts was able to do with the Jays. Look at them selling skydome boxs for 10 years with guaranteed revenue because the jays from 85-89 were competitive & they were still competitive till 93,” as though Rogers is neglecting the team and trying to not make it competitive, rather than the very simple and clear fact that it’s not happening on your pisspants timeline, and neglecting the fact that in those Labatt years the payrolls didn’t really start rising and free agents didn’t start getting paid to come here until years of successful homegrown baseball and packed houses at the Ex and the Dome.

        You talk about how it will take until 2014 or 2015 for the prospects AA has acquired to come here and make an impact, as though they can’t be traded in exactly the kinds of trades folks shit on AA for not making this winter, even though it’s easy to understand that teams wanted back prospects that were closer to the Majors– like these guys will be in the next two off-seasons.

        You call people who disagree with you “apologists,” and write that “I am baffled why Parkes & Stoeten would join the Jays apolologist crowd,” and you probably believe that’s what animates us in these discussions, which is about as fucking impossibly dumb a thing as I can imagine.

        You suggest that hitters regress when they get to Toronto and shit on the club’s player development.

        Need I go on?

        • Well, that was a takedown.

          Love seeing Andrew slumming it with us in the comments!

        • thank you for trying to slow this guy down. he wrote so much shit i am surprised you tried to explain his retardation.fuck, he stole some of my time.

        • Thanks for your reply.

          I do apologize for the Rogers apologist comment.

          With respect to vladimir Guerrero, I do think he would be useful to the teams hitting. Obviously they can’t use him very often while playing in Miami and Milwaukee.

          I read the French papers and watch french tv.

          The jays are covered in French on tv and in the papers. The vlAddy signing was big news. As for cash bonanza, it helps market the team in Quebec. The jays did a winter caravan in Montreal this year for that reason.

          The leafs were able to
          Make the playoffs prior to the salary cap in 2004. They were able to outspend other teams and fix mistakes.

          As for Labatts payrolls from 85 to 89, I am sure they were ranked higher than 23 out of 30.

          As for the jays being several players away from a playoff team, it seems that people use that to say they should not upgrade talent. A 1 year rental is not helpful in 2012. If the jays got another Colby Rasmus type player that would help.

          Losing to weak teams does hurt more.

          Losses in April count just as much as losses in September.

          AA does have to operate under Rogers payroll parameters.

          If Rogers decided to give him 120 million tomorrow , I am sure he would spend it.

          Thanks for your feedback

  51. It was kids day. The food court downtown near Rogers centre was packed with kids prior to the game. I doubt much beer was sold.

    • They sure sold lots of beer where I was sitting! The Dome was not overrun with kids, though there were lots of them. Attendance was officially 41,667.

  52. Lost in all this is.
    Rogers and Beeston has raised the awarenes of the jays to levels not seen in a while.
    Without improving the team or moving forward, certainly attendance and rating will decline.Thus decreasing revenues.
    This is more important than saving dollars.
    The value of the content provided has risen,I don’t think they want to see it decrease.
    That’s just a business decision.

    • HA HA What the fuck does awareness mean? attendance has been flat for 10 years and rogers has doubled their value so I don’t think they care

    • Very true. I see many people downtown wearing jays gear. The new jays uniforms are popular. The expectations for the team are higher . Unfortunately, if they finish last in the division then casual fans may go away again.

      It will be interesting to see what AA does next.

    • @ Balky

      I can’t dumb it down much more for you,but in you’re case I’ll try.

      Are the Jays more popular at 73 wins or 93 wins?
      In which case do you think Rogers makes more money?
      Across all platforms.Attendance is the least of their concerns.
      Read the comments above and get educated.
      Fucking troll.

      • I’ll dumb it down for you. The word is YOUR. This great awareness has resulted in lower attendance. Please tell us how much money rogers makes off the jays since you are the knowitall.

  53. I think the anger is misdirected. It has little to do with spending money. It’s more decision making. While AA/Beeston have shown the ability to put together an oganization that can acquire underappreciated assets as well as strong drafts, I think they have been mediocre in terms of decision making with regards to promotions and in terms of filling in with bit players/bench players.

    Why all the dicking around of Snider? He’s up/he’s down, he’s a lf, he’s a cf…

    Why the love of thames? anyone actually watching his at bats can see he has more holes in his swing than there are spots on a leopard. And what was up with the narrative that his defense was suddenly improved? Stop lying to us. The truth is revealed in performance and the very FIRST game of the season showed how inept he was.

    Why even sign guerrero? Once he was signed, why not bring him up and let him apply his trade at the bigs? Because his AAA numbers were mediocre? Really? They could not affrod a roster spot for him ? too precious to give up either crawford or mccoys spot? This entire thing was stupid.

    Davis: this fucker sucks. He’s run into a few fastballs this year but man he has zero chance at any breaking ball away. He is not a long term/core player.. Why are we wasting starts with this fuck on a team that is “buildin”

    Alvarez/drabek/hutch: Rush much?

  54. David Cooper IS WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS!!!!!!

    HE ISSSS WHAT WE THOUGHT HE WAS!!!!

  55. Oakville69 makes alot of good points.

  56. For all the people on this forum complaining about the Jays not making any moves and not signing big FA here is a nice article about Epstein and his regrets. Hopefully puts a few things in perspective.

    http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8049278/theo-epstein-admits-errors-late-boston-red-sox-tenure

  57. To Stoeten, Parkes et al,

    You guys are a great service to us Jays fans. I like your commentary and insight. But I want to remain a fan, and not a numbskull idiot who can do nothing but bitch, whine, and put everybody down. I like the game of baseball and I like the Blue Jays. But your followers are largely a bunch of douches…I’ll keep checking your content every now and then, but c’ya.

  58. I thought Wilner did a nice job in his most recent blog post.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/06/13/wilner_jays_nationals_sweep_recap/

    I think this is a good summation of the team:

    “The Blue Jays are most certainly not a bad team, but they’re not great, either. It’s a team that should be expected to hang out around the .500 mark most of the season, usually above it, and be in the race for the second wild card spot though likely winding up falling short. Lo and behold, that’s what’s gone on so far this season.”

    I think all but the most ardent sky is falling types can agree with that. Since the start of the season I’ve said I’ll I’d like to see is the young guys develop and meaningful games in September. Anything beyond is awesome.

    Doesn’t change the fact that the last 7 games have been massively depressing ball busters, but it is nice to keep things in perspective a bit.

    • .500 with upside baby lol i need to get t-shirts made up.

      Though as i said the othet day the upside is probaly on hold because of the injuries.

      • Well, based on talent I do think this is better than a .500 team. There have been a lot of under performances, and very few over performances, during a period that has generally seen the team hover from 1 over .500 to around 4 over .500.

        I’d say the team SHOULD be something like 84ish to 86ish wins, with a chance to push for the 2nd WC.

        But if Morrow is gone for a couple months…. then yeah. It’ll be hard for them to really take a step up, even if some under performing guys reverse their seasons.

    • A good summation but I dont think they will even be able to “challenge” for the second wild card spot now given the injuries and some players not playing as good as hoped.

  59. I do think that, not sure why.
    Stoeten, please tell me what I SHOULD think.

    I am kind of in the middle, wish the Jays would spend more and wish they were more competitive this season. This season has been a piss off. But on the other hand am excited for the prospects. So i think both sides in this debate are too extreme.

  60. As a product of the Jays one week of suckage, I have read a lot lately about at least listening to trade offers for Bautista while his value is at its peak. If I was GM, I don’t think I’d deal him, but you’ve got to at least listen to what other teams might offer. At what point do you start the conversation? A young, controllable, 1A starter + position player who would be an upgrade for the Jays + 2 top prospects?

    • If this was a few years ago, I might agree…

      But with the second wild card really opening things up so far, and the Yanks and BoSox both looking old, and not being particularly successful at buying their way into wins lately … I really wouldn’t look at trading Bautista. Just seems like we might be entering a period where it’s much easier to sneak into the playoffs (or playoff elimination game) than we’re used to. If they make the right moves, there’s no reason 2013 isn’t a possibility, even if they fall out of it in 2012.

  61. Don’t understand the anger for the results so far. They went into the season with an incredibly suspect 1B and LF and a rotation that consisted essentially of three rookies. It was quite clear that management had no real desire to win in 2012 coming out of that offseason where they made little improvements and spent whatever money they had on the bullpen. Considering that (and Bautista’s poor start), being close to .500 at this point isn’t bad at all. If there was an expectation of making the playoffs from any fan in 2012, there shouldn’t have been.

    Overall, though, yes, it is disappointing to see this team waste Bautista’s elite prime in the same way that they did with Halladay, but it’s not in any way surprising. I’d love to see them try to contend in 2013 for that reason, but that’s a lot of holes to fill and a lot of money that Rogers would have to spend (something they’ve been reluctant to do since they bought the team 12 years ago). It can be done, though, if the team commits themselves to it and some prospects are dealt to make MLB improvements.

  62. Yup, looks like Drabek’s failed prospect syndrome has come out of remission. He will share a hospital room with Travis Snider. Cause of the syndrome the doctors say is too many Blue jays fans expecting him to go 20-0 with an ERA under 1.00 from day one.

    • It is not the fans that has created mediocrity in the Blue Jays.

      It is Rogers Communications.

  63. Well that was a fucking novel.

    As nice as it would be to compete and make the playoffs this year it doesn’t seem likely. That’s the reality of playing in the AL East, you can’t make the playoffs with a good team, you need a great one. That being said I would love to watch some meaningful games in September even if the Jays don’t make it to October.

    • The reality of a team making the playoffs with 1 consistent starting pitcher is dumb to begin with. The Jays have Romero pitching well but I have said it all along that Romero isnt a true ace, he’s a solid number two pitching slightly above slot. He is good dont get me wrong but he is not a guy that the team or the fans can count on 100% of the time.

      Then there’s Morrow, he shows up one day pitching like an absolute ace but then for every ace type start there will be one shitty one and a couple of “meh” starts at least.

      After that,,, its young arms with a lot of potential that have the tools to be a big deal but arent developing properly. Drabek seemed great then hit a wall, Alvarez seemed great and then hit a wall and now Hutch is pitching well and will also hit a wall. Problem is, the major leagues and especially the AL east is not a place to figure shit out. Problem with Drabek is, when he’s sent down,,, he sulks like a baby and performs shitty.

      It pisses me off because Drabek has all the tools and skills in the world to be the real deal but hes starting to wade into Snider type waters where its time to show something or fuck off.

  64. just face it season is over

  65. Toronto fans are idiots…remember when we thought Chris Carpenter sucked lol

    • I never did, he was just fucking hurt(I was very young though)
      With that being said I have completely written off Dusty sideburns McGowan… maybe I shouldn’t.

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