There wasn’t a whole lot of Jays content in Thursday’s Keith Law chat at, but fortunately there are a few more tasty nugs [note: sorry] from his Twitter and his piece on the Futures Game rosters (Insider Only) that I think I can cobble together a whole post out of it. So… um… I s’pose that’s what we should do…

From the Chat

AA (Toronto)
Is any of the available pitching on the trade market worth me giving up any of my big 4 pitching prospects (Sanchez, Syndergard, Nicolino, Norris)?
Why would you do that?

Bill (Toronto)
Can you please try and explain to me why the Blue Jays do not trade for a starter that can get them through the season rather than filling from within with prospects going up and down their system? Or even sign a free agent, such as Livian Hernandez? This is driving all Jays fans nuts!!!
If you think that’s a good idea, you were already nuts.

JT (Michigan)
Colby Rasmus: hot streak from a streaky player, or the emergence of the wonderful butterfly from the cocoon?
Well, his bat *was* hidden for more than two weeks…


From Twitter

Later on Thursday Rasmus came up again, this time in response to a Jays fan on Twitter who is eager to put Anthony Gose in left field come Opening Day 2013.

Law, of course, uses “begging the question” in the proper, Aristotelian way. My high school philosophy teacher– whose last name escapes me because he wanted us to just call him “Bill” (single tear for PCVS)– would be so proud. And, indeed, it’s hardly self-evident that Gose is going to force the Jays to do something with either him or Rasmus next year.

He adds this about evaluating the Jays who, like Gose, find themselves in Las Vegas…


From the Futures Game Column

Speaking of Anthony Gose, though he’ll be in Kansas City for the game, KLaw gives no mention of the Vegas centre fielder, omitting him from his list of five players most likely to do something awesome– thank you very much, Billy Hamilton. Gose’s teammate, Travis d’Arnaud, does rank among the likeliest of the attendees to reach the big leagues very soon, however.

“He’s destroying the Pacific Coast League, but the Jays’ Triple-A affiliate plays on the moon, so take any of their hitters’ stats with a pound of salt,” Law writes. “But d’Arnaud has a great swing and offers plus defense behind the plate, while the Jays are getting no value at all from J.P. Arencibia.”

Comments (83)

  1. Oh oh oh but I thought d’Arnaud was just a younger version of Arencibia? Same player. Baseball America is stupid. Check out my three ways to win tonight!!!

    • who said that? ive never read them compared. Arencibia’s comp is John Buck. D’Arnaud’s is Russell Martin. my understanding based on scouting reports is that Arencibia has league average defense (or below) with plus power – that’s it. D’Arnaud has plus defense, with the ability to take a walk and decent power and contact potential.

      • Dammit! So d’Arnaud won’t be allowed to throw the ball back to his pitchers for another 10 years at least??

    • Way #1: Needs the Sinker not the Stinker.

      • Damn me for not seeing your comment. The worst part about that joke is how funny and clever Zaun thinks it is.

    • I think Greg Zaun and his three ways to win is the best analysis in baseball. I especially like the way Zaun shows off his legendary sense of humour. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve laughed at his “sinker not a stinker” point… It’s pretty much every time Henderson Alvarez pitches, actually.

  2. I am a plus lady killer and a plus plus tweeter.

  3. Great comments so far.

  4. Sooooo… Gose in CF, Rasmus in LF, Snider… um… somewhere?

    • What’s the rush with Gose, though? Desmond Jennings played parts of three seasons at Triple-A, the last of which was in his age 24 season, and was twice rated a higher prospect by BA than Gose has ever been. Gose is 21. Another year starting in AAA won’t kill him, and then he’s there to come up if need be.

      And given Snider’s option situation and talent, I have no idea why he wouldn’t be ahead of him to start the season in Toronto, assuming they’re both still in the organization and they haven’t upgraded in left.

      I mean, I know PCL stats are hard to read, but Gose’s OPS is below Hechavarria’s, and we’re afraid HE can’t hit. It’s also below Thames, Sierra, Cooper, and Gomes– not exactly a murderer’s row. He’s behind d’Arnaud, Snider and Lind by 150, 275 and 300 points, respectively.

      • I completely agree.

        Let him develop properly. We have a great young CF in Rasmus which provides the luxury of waiting to see what happens. I’m not a fan of Davis in LF (although he has been better this season) so if Snider remains hurt or starts to shit the bed, then maybe see what he can do as a September callup.. but there is no real reason to call him up.

      • Another argument to keep him down there at least one more season is that, hopefully, the Jays move out of Vegas this winter and get an affiliate with a park that allows for more realistic evaluations.

      • Who’da thunk Stoeten could be the voice of reason?
        Excellent comment.
        Same people that complain about Snider being yo-yoed, are the ones that want to bring up Gose immediately, like he’s the savior and will be the piece of the puzzle, to put the Jays into the playoffs.

        • Agree with Stoeten on Gose. 21 year old kid with plenty of mustard and want is nice but he could very well benefit with more reps in AAA next season.

          I can see Gose being a late cut in spring training next year with a shot of being called up in May should there be a need for an outfielder. But he needs to hit his way onto the MLB roster.

      • Unless he can pitch, leave him where he is until he shows he has no more to gain by staying there. I think that point is a ways off yet.

      • If the power numbers in Vegas mean nothing, I still don’t see why a low K rate for batters is significant. That should mean something. And guys like Cooper and Gomes have come up and done quite respectable.

        So I don’t really agree about the “next to zero” as far as how much stock to place in Vegas stats.

      • There’s less than 40 guys in the whole league who have a higher OPS than Hech.

  5. So tinnish gets promoted despite none of his picks in the majors and fucking up the mcguire pick? The jays now have more AGM’s than starters. Good work alex!

    • You don’t really know how scouting works, do you?

    • Truly one of the dumbest things I’ve read on here in a long time.

    • You bring shame to the manimal name with that comment :o(

      • Really, why is it dumb? How many teams have 3 AGM’s? I’m guessing none. But the jays are special.

        Here’s a riddle, how many AGM’s does it take to find a starting pitcher?

        • Know when to fold ‘em dude.

        • Really? It’s just a title go and look at any number of other teams. They all have similar titles if not exactly Assistant GM’s. It might beVice President or Special Assistant to the GM. Maybe corporate Rogers required the title for him so he could qualify for a raise or something like that. The point is they could call him Grand Chief Wahoo and it wouldn’t make a difference.

          • yeah I did and no most teams don’t have that many. So you’re saying special assistant is the same as AGM? The jays already had 2 of those so that means they now have 5 “assistants”.

          • @ day manimal

            Who. Fucking. Cares.

        • It is dumb for at least two reasons: 1) you care about the title’s; and 2) you evaluate Tinnish’s work on one disappointing 1st rounder (which happens to everyone. ex. I suppose Tampa has bad scouting for taking Beckham) and on promotion or ML roster (despite the fact they have gone for high-upside 18 year olds, who will clearly take longer to make it to the Show).

    • If I remember correctly there was talk about Tinnish having a chance at being hired from another team for a job with higher status. This is AA way of retaining quality personnel.

  6. I know that its kind of his shtick but why does Keith Law have to sound like such a prick on almost every single question he answers?

  7. KLaw is a fool. Why do I have to follow Stoeten on the twitter? I’m gonna smoke another bowl.

    Yechiel from Saskatchewan

  8. A writer finally admits we’re getting nothing from JPA.. strange that it took so long

  9. Law freely admits he’s sarcastic. If you don’t like, don’t read. Just like this site. If you don’t like, find info elsewhere.

  10. Law is dismissive of the Gose-Rasmus-Bautista outfield but there are a few things to consider here.

    Currently the Jays do not have a LF solution in the majors. Travis Snider when healthy could be that guy. I certainly hope so. Still, the possibility exists that Snider struggles or gets hurt and can’t play.

    At that point you can take 2 paths. Either you say – fuck it. Gose is our next best outfielder regardless of what his position is “supposed” to be. If he can hit then it doesn’t really matter whether his bat is best suited to centre or whether the same is true for Rasmus. Put your three best outfielders out there and see what happens. The outcome will still be more productive than trotting out Davis in LF with only one of Rasmus or Gose.

    If you really feel that the only way Rasmus and Gose have value is to have them play at centre then you have to choose between them and make sure you bring in a power bat that will play at a corner outfield position.

    Still, I can’t help but feel this might all be needless worrying as the Jays may want to move Bautista into first as his outfield abilities continue to decline, and the fact that one trade for a starter could blow up the minor league system, sending a collection of catching, pitching and outfield players to make it work.

    • Best case scenario is Snider gets called up after the All-Star break and gets the rest of this season and next to prove that he deserves the sport. If he plays well that gives the team a ton of flexibility in the outfield with Gose, Rasmus, Snider, and Bautista. I feel like it would be a shame to waste Bautista’s arm at first, but the fact remains that we don’t have any internal options there.

    • I love how everyone thinks Bautista will just merrily admit he is an old fart (at 31) and mosey on over to first base.

      I know AA is the silent ninja warrior god, but I’d like to see him move Bautista before age 35. Good luck. Joey loves showing off his arm out there. And I personally love to watch it.

  11. can the jays go on a roll this week? we need some magic to get more positive attitude and some bait for AA to trade.the starting pitching is the weak link as predicted in ST.oh well at least we arent the falling apart at the seams snap a thon bo sox. that gomes has to be great tradebait for a national team. 3 positions covered, hell maddon would probably orgasm for the flexilbility. its like dreaming you are dating a gymnast and what you could do for fun. i dated one and it definitely was fun. ankles and ears side by side.ahhhhhhhhhhhh

    • Going to be a tough weekend in Miami I am thinking. Have to face the Marlins top 3 starters with no room for error in our pitching staff. A big park like that might also reduce some our power as well. Hopefully the games are entertaining at least and not like the last game in Milwaukee.

  12. Bautista to first, no? This makes room for Snider. Gose is the better defensive centre fielder (at least that’s what they say) so he must play there or your only cheating yourself. Talk to Cletus about the switch first and sell him on how much better the team will be and therefor how much more fun he’ll have as a Jay. Hopefully he just wants to win – like they all say as a cliche answer to such questions. If there’s a problem then a trade will solve it.

    • “you’re”

    • Ive been a pro Bauatista to 1b guy for awhile. JB is a decent 3B and an ok RF with a cannon that guys are still running on. Hes made a lot of throws to 2nd, 3rd and home that either arent being caught or no out was made but that means they are still running on him. yes he makes some nice plays but guys arent exactly terrified of his throws (or they dont respect the player receiving the throw) Having an above average defensive 1B can only be a plus. just because you can play a lesser defensive player there doesnt mean that a good defensive player is a waste. His arm still cuts guys down at the plate on plays at the plate, better range than a post so thats a plus and the 3-4- double plays might be more easily turned. that fills a hole. i think keeping Yan Gomes for the bench would be a great idea too. Having a 3rd catcher to allow flexibility with d’arnaud or JP some DH at bats would be a good thing to.

  13. Not sure what the big deal would be of having Rasmus play Left eventually. All you have to do is look at the Yankees and Brett Gardener and see how well that worked out for them even though Gardener is the better Center fielder. Doesn’t mean it has to be next year of course. Hopefully Snider is up very soon and get’s the rest of the season to show his stuff one way or another.

    As for Gose and Hamilton, I love when they get compared but people gloss over the fact that Gose is the same age but is playing 2 levels higher. Law was also critical of Hamilton’s defense at short on the Baseball Today podcast the other day.

    • The Gardener example is a good one – although Yankee Stadium’s dimensions make him almost a necessity out in LF. Still. unless you can land an all-star bat I don’t see the point in not trying. Both Rasmus and Gose are plus defenders so its almost irrelevant who would play where.

      • Oh I agree I would have no problem with Gose playing Left especially if it kept Colby happy and productive. As easy as it is for us to say it’s no big deal for these guys to change positions I think it actually is for certain players. Sure it might be selfish but some of these guys identify with the positions they play more than anything else when it comes right down to it.

        Obviously we have no way of knowing if Rasmus would make a fuss or if Escobar would moving off of short one day. Who knows maybe they’d be as accommodating as Bautista moving back and forth from the infield to the outfield.

        • That’s a good point, if Bautista did it without much complaint that might put pressure on other guys to do the same.

      • You’re assuming that Gose’s bat would play better in LF than Davis’ right now, and I’m not sure that would necessarily be the case.

        • Well that was another point I was going to bring up. The Jays have a relatively cheap option on Davis for next year at $3 million. Davis is used to being a 4th outfielder type. Depending on budget constraints Davis could continue to fill that role considering he’s done a very good job there so far. As others have said that option gives them the benefit of keeping Gose in AAA one more year to perfect his hitting.

          Personally I don’t think the budget will be much of an issue next year even if you were to give EE and KJ decent raises and signed another starter or two. With no Teahan to pay next year and extra money they won’t be able to spend in the draft there should be plenty kicking around.

          • are you kidding? teahan is not even on the payroll this year. the jays are going to need to spend 15 mil + on starting pitching next year. Add in an extra 5 mil for edwin and that’s 20 mil needed.

            no coco saves 4 mil
            no frasor saves 3 mil
            no kj saves 6 mil
            no rajai saves 3 mil
            no francisco saves 1 mil
            no mathis saves 1 mil

            you’re still short a couple mil unless rogers increases payroll like that will happen.

  14. Realizing that the Braves are also in the pitching market could Rasmus bring back one of the young Atlanta pitchers ? … I’m a Rasmus fan but believe that a 21 year old kid in AAA with plus Rajai Davis speed, Jesse Barfield arm and better defensive range than Rasmus with the possibility of Granderson power later on down the road ‘MIGHT’ (that’s a big might) be worth the gamble to get a first rate “no doubt about it” A1 pitching ‘prospect’ … and hopefully a win-win outcome .

    • and gose will never ever have curtis granderson power ever. pop for him is 20 max. granderson is much better hitter in every way.

  15. Rasmus is good.

    Gose might be good.

  16. Two man outfield, Gose and Rasmus. Bautista shifts to rover and stands exactly wherever the percentages tell him to stand on every at bat, nay, pitch. With Hechavarria, Lawrie and Escobar in the infield no ball ever gets through thanks to all that lovely range. EE remains on 1st doing what he’s doing. Throw in D’Arnaud’s defense and I’d call it the best defense in baseball. Only hope for the opponent is flukes or home runs. What a future.

  17. I get the reasoning behind JB to first idea because everyone thinks his skills will decline. What I dont think anyone’s considered is:
    1) JB has been described as “sinewy” and there isnt an ounce of fat on the guy. His body type for an athlete is durable and ages much more slowly than most. He probably works out the hardest and is in better shape than any one guy on the team
    2) JB loves RF, is fast, and has an accurate, strong throw from RF to every base. I see him there for a minimum of 4 more years, barring injury.
    3)He is one of the best RF’s in MLB. Why would anyone want to put a lesser talented athlete in his place and risk an unhappy JB at 1B?

    If I were AA and my team leader wanted to make that move to help the team I’d do it in a heartbeat. But before I made any move like that I’d definitely ask him for his advice and discuss the matter thoroughly.

    • No Jose Bautista is ok to meh in RF with a good arm that guys still run on and no one can catch his throws and make a play. Not his fault but we are not suggesting his skills “will decline”, we are suggesting hes not that great to begin with, but give him the fact he has a great arm..thats it. Hes not that fast, not that great at fielding. and doesnt have good range.

      • Dear Captain, if you think of the best RF’s you think of guys like Dave Parker, Ellis Valentine, Willie Stargell, Hank AAron, Roberto Clemmente…Jose is right in there. Most all of the greats did not have blazzing speed, but they hit HR’s, had lots of RBI’s and had cannons for arms. Some days I wonder if folks here know what a championship team looks like.

        • dear birddawg, hitting has nothing to do with his defense. No one is saying cut the guy but he is not a good RF. He isnt stopping anyone from running, as they still run on him all the time, and if we have actual good OF defenders they need a place to play. Sometimes I wonder what game people are watching that think Jose is a great OFer and has carte blanc to stay there. Fuck Joe Carter went to 1B for us if youre going to compare starts on a championship team

          • Agreed on many points..Pretty certain Joe’s move occured later in his career like 2-3 years before he retired – Jose isn’t there yet. Not certain how many people here realize that hitting has nothing to do with defence, but perhaps your name clarifies this mysetry for all of us. The following table shows the leader in assists
            Assists as RF (s.1954) s c a p y
            1. Bautista (TOR) 8
            2. Pence (PHI) 7
            3. Francoeur (KCR) 6
            Cruz (TEX) 6
            5. DeJesus (CHC) 5
            Reddick (OAK) 5
            Anyway maybe guys are running on him, but I wouldn’t

    • Jose is average, not fast. His range and reads in the outfield are average at best too, but his strong arm makes up for misreads and balls out of his range.

    • Bautista is 12th among RF’s in UZR (I know it’s a flawed stat but it’s better at judging his defensive skills than a bunch of people who watch games on TV and pretend to know what the difference between an okay and good outfielder is). I agree he’s fine in RF, but the fact of the matter is that he has always been willing to move around the field to do what’s best for the team (see his games at 3rd last season).

      • I think he has said he is willing but in words that show he is not thrilled about it. He has been very clear that he feels he brings the most value in RF.

        • Im sure he does feel hes not as bad as he is in the OF. You think he’s going to come out and say “I suck, Im on page fucking 7 of Fangraphs UZR/150 for outfielders between 2009-2011. I can fucking launch the ball though..just no one seems to be able to catch them and apply a fucking tag..JPA, Escobar?” His biggest asset is his arm but wholly fuck does that ever not deter the opposition from running…lol

          • several errors in previous post. RF not OF, and holly fuck is spelled incorrectly. so fcuk off. Or fuck off if you care about grammar errors that have little bearing on the message.

          • as before holy not holly. Shitsakes.

  18. No need to rush Gose and by all accounts his bat needs more work yet. Snider has would be a better call up if he bounces back from his wrist injury. But then again expect some of these guys to be traded before next year

    • The DJF cult has many taboo’s…you must not like hockey, Brett Lawerie must be under appreciated because he’s Canadian, Snider (I can’t remember his first name its been so fucking long since he’s been here) is a god, upside is in, and small sample sizes disprove the validity of any opinion that is contray to DJF beliefs. I remain a heritic forever!

      • Weird, because I like hockey quite a bit– I just mock the stupidity of many aspects of the cult– and I appreciate Brett Lawrie a damn lot, I just refuse to OVER appreciate him because of his passport. Also, Travis Snider may well be a total fucking bust, it’s just, he’s still got a lot talent and deserves far more of a chance than he’s yet been given. And I’m happy to hear any counter-argument, it’s just, one that’s resting on a tiny, insignificant foundation of data is pretty clearly going to get mocked, because… y’know… we’re not stupid around here.

        I would use another word for what you call heresy.

        • Talent and performance generally go together, but not always. Snider’s K’s are indicative of a poor hitter, and many MLB players suffer from this. Guess I’d counter with he ain’t as talented as folks here like to think.
          The pedistal that Snider is placed on here, dwarfs Lawrie’s accomplishements. If you take away Lawrie’s passport, and use the same scale of measurement of success on him as you do Snider, then Snider should be out of baseball

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