Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_1_sql_95ee78392381ffbfe4b66e3133ee6205' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_object_9ee1addf54ad00867451ed4d367f2c40' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Late-Afternoon Snack: Wednesday, June 27th, 2012 | Drunk Jays Fans | Blogs | theScore.com

Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of, with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

I was going to write that I didn’t even want to bother commenting on today’s disasterpiece at all, but the fast fingers of Eno Saris got a “what the hell is wrong with Ricky Romero?” piece up over at FanGraphs before the end of the fifth inning!

An AP wire story appearing in the Toronto Star informs us that Jose Bautista will appear in the upcoming “Body Issue” of ESPN the Magazine. So… there’s that.

In at notebook post at BlueJays.com, Gregor Chisholm tells us about Carlos Villanueva, who is going to start for the Jays tomorrow at Rogers Centre against the Angels, and Brandon Morrow, who actually has no pain in his oblique muscle, and has started playing light catch every other day.

Part two of Bluebird Banter’s interview with Dwayne Murphy includes this answer about whether he believes in advanced stats: “No. No. Those stats don’t matter to me. I just try to get these guys to hit and knock in runs and score runs, cause no matter what kind of stat you have, in order to win this game, you gotta score runs. You can make up whatever stats you want, but if I get these guys to drive in runs and to score runs, we have opportunities to win ball games.” Of course, given his role, I don’t think he particularly needs to give a shit about advanced stats.

Jason Collette writes for Baseball Prospectus about Henderson Alvarez and his nightmare season with the home run ball. He’s the first pitcher since Mark Mulder in 2006 (with the Cardinals, not when he was good) to have such a high home run rate, despite inducing ground balls at a rate over 55%.

“Toronto is generally regarded as a conservative, conscientious organization when it comes to protecting its pitchers. The Jays set up individual shoulder-strengthening programs and conditioning regimens, observe widely accepted pitch limits (with special caution for young pitchers) and closely monitor starters’ bullpen sessions,” writes John Lott of the National Post, which is why pitching coach Bruce Walton is so taken aback by the recent rash of injuries.

Zach Links of MLB Trade Rumors and making delicious beef jerky passes along confirmation of the fact that Omar Vizquel is going to retire at the end of the season. What? I thought he already was. HEYO!

At Sportsnet, Shi Davidi looks at the unprecedentedness of the Jays’ rotation injuries. He also tweets that Jamie Moyer’s deal with the club is for two Triple-A starts, after which they’ll have to call him up or lose him.

Buster Olney of ESPN.com (Insider Olney) talks to evaluators about the possibility that the Twins may trade Francisco Liriano.

Meanwhile, at Getting Blanked, Parkes looks at Zack Greinke’s availability.

Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun talks to Vancouver Canadians manager Clayton McCullough, who is enjoying his demotion after spending last season in charge of Dunedin.

Dave Cameron of FanGraphs puts together a set of AL All-Stars for the stat nerd set. Only two Jays make it, Bautista and Encarnacion. Honourable mentions to Lawrie and Rasmus.

And lastly, here’s today’s edition of Getting Blanked for your viewing enjoyment!

Comments (86)

  1. “Of course, given his role, I don’t think he particularly needs to give a shit about advanced stats.”

    I hope my sarcasm radar is just malfunctioning. It doesn’t look like sarcasm to me, but I think it ought to be.

    • Dwayne Murphy’s job is to teach batters how to hit. Hitting or not hitting is not an advanced stat. Advanced stats merely measure how often you successfully hit, whereas Murphy’s role is to get you to successfully hit as much as possible.

      So, no, Murphy doesn’t need to care about stats. His job is to care about swings.

      • You don’t need advanced stats to tell you how often someone has successfully hit. That’s about as simple a stat as you can get.

        Using the right stats could help him to determine whether a change in mechanics has actually helped, rather than just basing it on gut feeling or applying the same formula to every hitter.

        If Murphy has looked at advanced hitting stats and determined that they won’t help him be a better hitting coach then that’s fine, but surprising. His comments suggest that he just doesn’t care though, which suggests to me that he isn’t interested in improving himself as a coach.

        • I don’t know if stats help a guy when he is at the plate. I would say focus and confidence and conviction help the most. But wut ever floats your boat. Maybe he could learn something he doesn’t already know.

        • Yeah, I’m conflicted on it too. On the one hand, the advanced stats just measure better what happens on the field, therefore (I almost wrote “ergo”) if you’re job is to make the hitter successful, you’d think they’d come in handy.

          On the other, at least he didn’t say “it’s called hitting, not walking”, which he probably thinks anyway.

    • I think part of the issue with Murphy is that he doesn’t seem to believe in patience at the plate. When guys like Escobar and Johnson and Lawrie are patient, they become better hitters. He’s going with the swing-hard-and-swing-often approach with them, and although Lawrie is hitting the ball well, his speed and base-running ability would help the Jays if his OBP were higher. With JPA, he sees a guy who can mash home runs, so why bother with patience? The result is a catcher with a .250 OBP.

      On the other side of the coin, Murphy is the guy who made Jose Bautista and Colby Rasmus into what they are right now, so clearly he’s still good at his job, so who knows. At the same time, both of those guys are very patient hitters. Different approaches for different players, I guess.

      • You know what is dumb? Talking about hitting coaches. The guys who make the Majors as hitters are already good, and anyone who gets hired as a hitting coach is also pretty good. Who the coach is and what his philosphy is makes , I would say, less than a 1% difference.

  2. I would like to know if Dwayn Murphy shares the belief that RBI’s arn’t an an important stat. Cause if its important to knock in runs, how do we get runners home without them?

    • RBI’s are useless. Runs scored tells you how runs a team scored. RBIs are going predict anything or tell you want player is better than the others. Just because you can calculate it, it doesnt mean it gives much of an insight of talent evaluation.

      • I think I catch the essence of what you said, yes keeping track of the runs a team scores in important particularily on a game by game basis. If I have it right the team with the most runs at the end of the game wins. You know if we track this performance over 162 games Captain, we might be able to determine something important. Keep up the excellent insight

        • What insight does the RBI stat give you? What does it it tell you that you can use the next game?

          • It tells you a batter is clutch, able to drive in runs with runners on. Captain, you may not bekieve this but certain players perform better in pressure situation, and others wilt. Stats with RBI’s help us determine things such as batting order position, and productivity.
            Lets say you had a young catcher, mid range defensively, who’s batting .223 you might say get rid of him. However he modestly over-produces in RBI’s. That makkes you want to keep him cause young catchers that project to hit 80 plus RBI’s are good to keep.
            RBI’s are a stst that are indicative of offensive production, and help managers make prudent decisions. Those who don’t believe it broadcast games for a living.

          • Birddawg, you should probably look into the difference between descriptive and predictive analytics.

          • The is tremendous support for ignoring one of the long time standards for offensive prowess, OK. However, you will never convince me that RBI’s arn’t important…(its why they keep this stat around) The egg-heads who proport that RBI’s are meaningless stick tightly together to ensure their point of view is validated. However If someone wishes to offer a dissenting view it dosn’t make them a troll or any other name by which you try to assassinate a persons character.

          • Will look into it Brum

          • @ Brum, I have a cursury understanding of the predicitive analytics model now. It may work better on machines than people, but honestly its flawed science at best. I suspect there is little empirical evidence to support it. Human beings are predicible in there own right, ie Line drive hitting is natuaral to a guy with a level swing, a guy with a loup hits flys…why do I need data to prove this? Data should never lead instruction, but we all know that ….right?

    • It’s Murphy. There shouldn’t be any runners on base because everyone should be hitting home runs anyway.

  3. Stankees lose Sabathia and Pettitte. Sabathia maybe only for 2 starts, but hey who knows with a big guy like that you has a strained leg muscle and Pettitte at least 6 weeks with a broken bone near his ankle (line drive from the Indians).

    • Of course the shitballers they replace them with will pitch great, and they’ll keep winning like always.

  4. The highest payroll in baseball will be calling up . .. Ryota Igarashi, to replace . .. . Freddy Garcia who moves to the rotation.

    Sooooo, all the “cheap ass Rogers with no pitching depth, for fucks sake, stupid Alex Anthopoulos couldn’t see the need and is too in love with his draft picks to get us some fucking top notch pitching” commenters: Behold the power of money. Stupid fucking Brian Cashman and the cheap ass Steinbrenners.

    Freddy Garcia and our old friend Ryota.

  5. Pretty hard for even a yes man like Wilner to sugar coat the pitching situation. I think were are getting dangerously close to ‘next year’ world.

    • We are definitely already there. The Jays pitching staff is too horrible this year to have any hope which really sucks because the lineup is killing it right now (at least the first half of the lineup).

      It should be an exciting trade deadline though because it will be sellers market. Trade anything not bolted down.

    • As soon as you hear the magic words..’those pesky Jays’ its over.

    • I think we are easily already there. It would take a very large miracle for this team to compete after the break. We basically don’t have a SP after what Ricky Ro showed us today LOL. Oh my…

      • So…you guys know that Romero isn’t going to pitch like that all season long, and that Morrow will be back probably before the end of July, right? Not talking world series here, but saying “trade everything not bolted down” is a little bit nuts. Hardly time to blow up the team.

  6. All-star voting ends tonight. Get a few more votes in for Bautista so he doesn’t get passed by Nelson Cruz.

    Seriously, Nelson Cruz. WTF.

  7. This is Murphy from part 1 of that interview:

    “You gotta be ready to go up there and hit, more than sit there and take. You want to walk when the pitcher tries to nibble, than just sit there and take and hope you walk. There’s a difference.”

    Makes sense to me. Doesn’t it?

    • Only if you’re Dwayne Murphy.

      Maybe it’s retarded comments like this that are causing Murphy to also quote “our hitters are thinking too much at the plate.”

      They’re busy thinking about what the fuck Murphy is talking about.

      • I don’t know. In my mind, as a hitter, you are looking to hit the baseball. You shouldn’t be looking to walk. You should take a walk if it’s given to you, but you shouldn’t be going to the plate thinking “I’m going to walk here”, in my mind.

        Bautista takes a ton of walks, but I’m sure that’s not his goal when he goes to the plate. It’s a by-product of his approach. I’m pretty sure that’s what Murphy is getting at here.

        • I have to agree with allisauce here, I think Jose has the exact right approach. He walks because he doesn’t see balls he can drive hard during at bats, and of course he probably gets a lot more balls thrown to him because of his ability to hammer basbealls over the fence.

      • Do people really still use the word ‘retarded’?

        • I do, but I am working on it.

        • I do all the time…if you can’t distinguish between someone using it as an adjective and someone using it to be cruel, than you’re the problem.

        • Yes, only retards have stopped using it. My question for you is , are people really still into being politically correct? Cause not only is that retarded, its gay as hell.

          • There’s a difference between someone who strings together an intelligent line of thought that ‘s politically correct and someone who throws words around with flagrant disregard for what they mean. One is an effective communicator, the other is an idiot.

  8. I don’t think players and coaches not giving a crap about advanced stats is a problem.

    Coincidentally I was thinking about that todays. Stats are a tool to analyse how somebody has performed, and give no insight into how they can perform. They help a manager decide whether to sit a guy, demote him, or play him.

    From the players’ and coaches’ perspective, they really offer no help. Advanced stats will tell you that Rickey Romero hasn’t been able to hit a barn door with a soccer ball since April – but that doesn’t help him address the issue at all.

    • “Stats are a tool to analyse how somebody has performed, and give no insight into how they can perform.”

      This reads to say that stats have no predictive value, which obviously isn’t the case. As for your Romero example, there are plenty of stats that can tell you what may be his issue – strike %, first pitch strike %, pitch mix, relative velocities, etc.

    • True to a point, but with Romero you could argue that the advanced stats last year showed his success was unsustainable.

    • Brandon Morrow has been quoted as saying that he follows advanced stats.

      And Brandon McCarthy remodelled his approach using advanced stats.

      Hitting is a little different. Its not as static as pitching. A hitter can only react to what he is being thrown. But a hitter can change his approach using advanced stats. I am sure many ball players do this.

  9. What’s wrong with Rickie ? it’s woman problems .

  10. Why are these three dipshits wearing headphones when you know they’re like 2 feet away from each other?

  11. Shave the beard bud! you can’t pull it off

  12. When the Vancouver Canadians AAA team joined the PCL in the late 1970s, I went to about a dozen games the first season. Out in center field was a speedy defensive standout named … Dwayne Murphy. Memory is fuzzy sometimes, but I’m pretty sure that he was the first guy on that team I ever saw hit a home run. There weren’t many homers because the stadium, in the same place the Jays-affiliated short-season A team uses now, is near sea level and the air is moist. Murphy batted left and I remember him stroking one over the right side of the scoreboard. Soon after he went up to the big team in Oakland and never came back.

    Just a little perspective for ya.

    • I love that shit. History, you were there. Saw him, know a bit about the way he played. We need more of this stuff on this site. This is what I love to talk about, baseball, the people, the stories.

      Here’s one for you. In 2009 I went to see the Port Charlotte Stone Crabs play the Palm Beach Marlins in the high class A Florida State League. During the game, I was watching bat models for some reason. Everyone had Louisville Slugger Pro stock or Rawlings ash/maple because it was cheaper. They get it deal, but its not top quality pro wood. Then I see this guy on Palm Beach packing a respectable Sambat. This shits $140 a bat. I look at the coach and ask how he affords Sambats? The coach looks at me kind of ridiculously and says, he’s got the contract. Well, that guy, during the time was TheHomerunArtistFormerlyKnownAsMikeStanton, now Giancarlo.

      Well he hit a line drive blast over the 345 sign down the line, Jose style. After I told the story to my very knowledgable bro, he laughed in my face like an asshole and said, “Stantons only the biggest prospect in baseball right now, that coach must a thought you were a fuckin idiot.” My reply, I was drunk….just doin my duties.

      Kinda cool when you see a superstar in the minors, obliviously like a twit.

  13. Dwayne Murphy said none of that…

    he said “I teach the guys to pull the ball and hit homeruns, thats it, anything else is a failure”

  14. The past 2 week’s adversity that the Jays have experienced, may have created a situation that bodes well for the future.

    • Interesting comment. So, you say AA is going to blow a massive wad on a pornagraphic trade. Hmmmmm.

      • Not this year, too many injuries too overcome, not worth sacrificing the prospects.
        But if you put on your GM hat,look at what you have,what will be healthy,what will benefit from another year of development and what holes you have to fill.
        Take some time and think about the players and their backups in AAA.Some interesting scenerios emerge.

  15. I haven’t bitched in a while, so I’d like to say this:

    Fuck. Shit. Fuck-Shit. Cuntlips. Mike. Wilner. His lips look like labia.

  16. Let’s look at where we are at:
    There’s 27 games until the day before the trade deadline.

    The Jays are a very respectable 38-37 now considering what’s happened.

    The Jays are a sickening 8.5 games back already.

    The Jays are 3.5 and 4 games back of the two wild card playoff spots.

    They would need to leapfrog three teams to do this.

    Probably the Jays Braintrust will sit down over the All-Star break and decide where the team is at and know more about the health of Morrow and Alvarez.

    This team “essentially” has eleven games to get hot and look like they can make a run
    that would warrant the Jays management making additions to attempt a playoff push. The team is in last place and that’s an excuse in itself to become sellers and start selling hope for next year.

    • The whole buyers and sellers analogy is a product of the media.

      What one must look at is whether it will be a buyers or sellers market. With the added wildcart berth and seeing some divisions bunched up, the trade season in 2012 will be a strong sellers market. I doubt AA will sell his top prospects for some much needed pitching unless he gets some controllable years in return. Thus, you can forget about the bigger ticket arms that might hit the market but who are destined for free agency at the end of the year.

      I think that has a lot more to do with the overall trade strategy.

    • To me, the pitching injuries, outside of Morrow’s have been vastly over rated. Alverez, Hutchison and Drabek are all good potential arms, but in 2012, they constitute a horrible rotation. These guys sucked all year, pretty much. I mean, they were occaisionally ok, but generally, if thats our rotation then our record is good even without injuries. I mean, fuck me, but how often can you expect to have 2 of the best hitters in league on your team? I am not one of those idiots who think Rogers is cheap and should spend for the sake of spending, but is it really too much to ask AA to aquire a legitamate pitcher?

  17. Mr Spragues son well said . If the make shift starting staff keeps us within 5 of wildcard it could get interesting. My guts telling me Kelly Johnson is going to be a Tiger thou

  18. I wonder if the Jays could get another Lawrie in exchange for Romero.

    • Romero for Zach Wheeler. Best I can do.

      And it obviously depends on Romero rebuilding trade value by pitching well between now and the trade deadline.

  19. LAST PLACE everyone,,,, yup, LAST PLACE.

    • So? The W/L is right where most people predicted. AA certainly never promised anything more for this year. Last because Baltimore is outperforming. Doubt that holds. Winning record despite losing a top closer early on and having about 5 or 6 arms go bad and only Morrow really go well.

  20. I have a bad feeling the Angels are gonna make the Jays their bitches…hope I’m wrong.

  21. Y’all who talked about the Yankees and their injuries are wrong. I’m up in da Big Apple and Yankee fans love Phelps so that solves one problem. They put Freddy Garcia in da other spot. If one of them falters Guthrie,Garza or a cast of thousands will be brought in.BUT Mr Cash Man knows quite well that this is a win now team.

    In addition, no Yankee fan is calling them cheap because they spent 210 million bucks this year! Mr Cash Man went out and built a good bullpen and not all of those players were expensive all y’all. He also got Ibanez and Chavez for next to nothing while da Jays have trouble attracting flies to da ballclub.

    It be so sad with this team. We have a GM who wants to hold on to every draft pick …so he can compete when in 2020?! We got Bautista,E5 and all sorts of talent why can’t a rich Canuck company go out and buy pitching.

    And fo all you racists that thought that Cito couldn’t handle a bullpen, look at Jersey John Farrell. The man is lost. Every other team in the AL East has a manager that has been to the playoffs as a manager we get a guy who wasn’t even a bench coach! MR Alex done screwed up. I’ll have a better feelling when THE Jays get a GM outside this irganization and a new manager that’s been there. Instead we get The Greek who won’t spend and a clueless manager.

  22. Obviously, something’s way off with Romero. Watching a bit of yesterday’s game, the bit of interview footage they played during the first inning, to me, he looked puffy and sounded as devoid of killer instinct as what his body language looked on the mound … like he’s looked most of this year, so far. Taking a guess, I’d say he needs to get laid (don’t laugh) … and speaking of, where’s that hot girlfriend that was all over him last year?

    All the pitching coaches in the world aren’t gonna help ole Ricky right now. It’s his mojo, pure and simple.

    • I remember reading a report that his GF got a DUI over the winter. Kind of surprised he didn’t get mad at her on Twitter.

  23. I wonder if the jays will pick up chad qualls. Need as much depth as you can right now. The guy only gave up ER twice in june and walked 2 batters.The question is if pauley is the better option

    • Qualls has a better career whip, k/9 and era than pauley so my money is on qualls. He also has a lot more experience. Plus I don’t like anyone named pauley

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