The Kansas City Royals bring their proud traditions to Rogers Centre tonight, as Ricky Romero will once again try to find himself, looking to rebound from the worst outing of a difficult season last week in Boston. Keep an eye on how often he manages to get a first pitch strike over, as his failure to do so this season seems to be the key to what’s ailing him. Of course, it’s not like it’s quite as easy as consistently grooving one to start each at-bat, but on the other hand… he’s facing the Royals.

And that’s not just a good thing for keeping runs off the board, as Jose Bautista– who, according to a tweet from Barry Davis of Sportsnet, is not just the newly-named American League player of the month for June, but will also be officially named tonight as a participant in the Home Run Derby, which will take place during the All-Star break festivities next week in Kansas City– gets to face Everett Teaford.

Teaford, presumably when not eating caviar and playing polo, is a Royals left-hander making his third start of the season. The way the Jays have been playing lately, I’ve got a pretty good feeling about this one. Y’know, as long as Romero rights himself at least somewhat.


Perhaps John Farrell was as clueless about which hand Everett Teaford throws with as I was before I started this post, but for some fucking reason he’s written Adam Lind’s name into the lineup tonight against the left-hander. Lind has a pair of home runs in the six games since his return from Las Vegas, which is good. And just two other hits, in 18 plate appearances. There’s no reason to believe just yet that he’s not still fucking terrible.

Sam Miller of Baseball Prospectus gives us three angles on Brett Lawrie’s collision at the plate with Angels catcher John Hester that show how the Jays’ third baseman altered his run to put a forearm into his opponent. Hey, you know what they say: don’t shoot the messenger… even if he agrees with the message, despite knowing full well that saying as much is a stupid road to go down given the blind hatred of anything negative said about the player involved.

Tennis’s Milos Raonic tweets at JP Arencibia to let him know that he’ll be at the game tonight. “Kill it,” he says.

TV: Sportsnet

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at And for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with Score Mobile

Toronto Blue Jays

B. Lawrie 3B
C. Rasmus CF
J. Bautista RF
E. Encarnacion DH
Y. Escobar SS
K. Johnson 2B
R. Davis LF
A. Lind 1B
J. Arencibia C

R. Romero LHP

Kansas City Royals

A. Gordon LF
A. Escobar SS
E. Hosmer 1B
B. Butler DH
Y. Betancourt 2B
M. Moustakas 3B
J. Francoeur RF
S. Perez C
J. Bourgeois CF

E. Teaford LHP

Comments (322)

  1. Who the hell is Teaford?

  2. D-Train pitching for us tonight?

  3. The best story of the best double-tapered shit I ever had that I’ve ever heard.

  4. How many lead off double is that now in the last couple weeks?

  5. Lawrie’s really been hitting the doubles lately.

  6. Teams should probably just start shifting to that gap vs Lawrie

  7. Milos Raonic? Who dat?

  8. Could see Lawrie having 40 doubles by the end of the season esoecially the way he has hit since moving to the top of the order.

  9. Make him pay for his timidity, EE.

  10. Poor Eddie

  11. Edwin is becoming Reed Johnson 2.0

  12. here comes a gidp….

  13. No DP yunel pleasr.

  14. Good, hit it too soft.

  15. The Jays need to get some more runs against this Teabag…or Teaford…whoever.

  16. Squandered.

  17. Come on Ricky, its the fucking Royals

  18. Aaaaand Ricky’s done. But those first five batters were pretty sweet.

  19. fuck

  20. Wow. Romero making scrubs look like all stars again

  21. Ugh just as Ricky was looking nasty good.

  22. ‘JP’ & ‘grind out a bat’ have sadly not been introduced.

  23. I walked away for 45 seconds and came back and our half of the inning was already over. Sweet.

    Love how Cosentino is co-hosting a show with Hayhurst (supposedly, if he ever makes it over the border—he was turned back today) but has only “started” to read his book.

  24. If going from ricky sucking to ricky being good was as easy as moving him to the other side of the rubber, why did it take so fucking long?

    reminds me of how earlier in the year tabs/buck were claiming mathis was going to be a good hitter now that the jays have opened his stance up.

    really? that simple…why didnt anyone think of that ?

  25. BOOOOOOSH – WA !!

  26. Jesus-”I’ve started reading his book.” Nice; Dirk must be so proud.

  27. Johnson should have had that tag at second. The inning should have been over.

    I’m out!!!!!

  28. Oh Ricky…

  29. All four Royals runs coming with 2 out.

  30. ugly

  31. Thank you Cletus. Deep breath.

  32. Ugh he looked great to start oh well another work in progress i guess.

  33. An cue this team won’t compete until 2015 trade Bautista for prospects etc….. comments

  34. ……ricky is terrible at the moment. I wonder if he is feeling ok.

  35. Two quick questions.

    1) Any option years left on Ricky?

    2) Can we get Aaron Laffey to teach Ricky Romero how to pitch?

  36. Jose!

  37. JBau!

  38. What is wrong with Romero? He’s never been this bad before. Is he hiding an injury?

    • This has been said since April. Everyone knows it. He’s lost velocity and control.

    • I wouldn’t be surprised after the season it’s revealed that he was harbouring some sort of injury and was pitching through pain. But his velocity is still consistent, main problem being his location.

  39. Man, he just doesn’t stop.

  40. Nice, the jays are starting to string up some hits…

  41. only 2 more solo home runs needed!

  42. Hip rotation or bust.

  43. when you think about how ricky romero is supposed to be the “dependable” guy on this staff, and you realize he is makes you wonder if the people that say to trade Jose are right.

    You could get such an enormous haul for him.

    Trading guys like EE and KJ will bring you back next to nothing. It’ll just make your team worse without much return.

    As far as Yunel goes, If you can get a legit front level prospect for him, deal him.

    • It really depends on what you could get. Are we going to trade a player that will probably put up at least 3-5WAR per year for the remainder of his contract for some prospects? There is no such thing as a “can’t miss” prospect.

      • Escobar aint putting up no 3 to 5 war going forward.

        key is to jump ship before it becomes obvious to everyone.

        his body type does not age well at the SS position.

        • I was talking about Jose, obviously.

        • Who the hell is going to replace his production, he hasn’t been thaaaat bad this year. I bet he’ll be a lot better than Hech next year, and what’s the problem with moving him to second base? You can trade him, but at what point do you stop scrapping guys to build for the future and keep guys who may help you now?

          • Yunel is a good defensive shortstop. He’s been a little off offensively this year but has been coming back as of late.

            People have this boner over Hech but he is not going to put up much in the way of offensive production. He may be nothing more than a utility player/defensive replacement in the big leagues.

        • BTW, ZiPS has Yunel at 3WAR at the end of the year. And most would consider this his down year.

      • Bryce Harper was a can’t miss prospect, so were Alex Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr.. A few others, but some highly touted guys have failed, yes…

        • Ok, well the book hasn’t exactly closed on Bryce Harper yet, since its his rookie fucking season — so lets wait on that one.

          Some highly touted? Many, many highly touted prospects have failed. Remember how we all had wood over JPA coming to the bigs? Yeah, not exactly blowing up our skirts anymore is he? What about Alvarez? Drabek? What about guys like Adam Lind and Aaron Hill that shit the fucking bed?

          I’m not saying DONT trade Jose or Yunel, I’m just saying that these are good, pretty dependable players. Trading them for prospects is a huge gamble.

          We are going to blow up the team because we think we’ll be more poised to compete in 2015 or whatever. What happens when the Lansing rotation gets a few McGowan style injuries? What if one of them turns into another Kyle Drabek? Then what? Build for 2020?

          You could get caught up in this shit all fucking day. The fact of the matter is that this team is not miles from competing. A few smart trades and FA signings and this team could have competed this year. The exact same thing could be said for next year. It all depends on whether or not Rogers/AA is willing to put the investment into the major league roster (not just the draft) and commit to putting a winning product in the field now, as well as in the future.

          • + 1 billion. Thanks for speaking some common sense. I’ve never understood the blow this team up mentality that gets spewed so often around here. They averaged like 6 runs a game against some good pitchers on the Angels last series yet they obviously suck because they only split the series. The comments on here are so fucking astoundingly stupid sometimes.


          • Good post. The prospect fetish is becoming tiring.

            Of course, some prospects come up & help the team.

            However, teams in the AL East need good veterans, a mix of younger players & excellent managing.

            Last year everyone wanted to trade Hill & now he is putting up a great year in Arizona.

            Was this the hitting coach’s fault?

            Trading Escobar is stupid unless you get a frontline starter.

            Trading Escobar for an A level prospect is dumb.

          • @ frank, great read, I like it. Please send it to AA. I understand Pauley is avalable….maybe we can get Roy back for a year or so? (Don’t think I’d be good at this negotiating a trade business)

  44. Please don’t talk about Salvador Perez’s thighs.

  45. Is Bourgeois actually pronounced: Booshois?

  46. This inning is shaping up to be a bad one

  47. Maybe I should throw from behind the rubber?

  48. Aaron Laffey is now the steadiest arm in the rotation?

  49. Ricky..come join mean in the Pantheon of once good and then suddenly shitty lefties!

  50. LOL @ Bautista on a last place team with a broken rotation calling on management to “go for it”.

  51. Time to pull Romero.

  52. Must go a minimum of 5-2 in these next 7…..Anything less and its time to trade and reload for 2013

  53. Americans have a funny way of pronouncing French…;)

  54. Good job JP.

  55. Brutal JP

  56. We are getting ass-raped by Kansas City. FUCK YEAH!

  57. A blue jay game isn’t complete until you see a pass ball by JPA.

  58. Fuck JP

  59. now that it’s a blowout, I’m sure we’ll see oliver and frasor. gotta save coco for those close games.

  60. Romero’s fooling no one.

  61. Billy Butler is 26 years old? He doesn’t look a day under 38.

  62. If the rotation wasn’t in shambles, an Romero was healthy he’d be sent down

  63. We are “lucky” it’s only 6-2. Does that read as bad as I think it does?
    One beer in and I am already flipping channels.

  64. So, time to put Romero on the DL and call up Moyer? I don’t expect Moyer to be great, but it’s pretty obvious that Romero is having SOME sort of issue that is either medical or mental and could use a 15 day break to figure it out…

  65. I’d rather see an angry Romero than a dejected Romero.

  66. This is a .500 team. The team’s projection at this point is .500 (per Tango’s method). There are now only seven games until the All-Star break where the team would probably want to get their deadline strategy started/laid out/finished (?).

    Let’s say they can hold off on deciding until the 23rd and going to start a homestand. That only gives an extra nine games. 16 games isn’t a lot of time when there are four teams between you and a wild card.

    If they really squeeze to wait until the last minute, that gives them an additional seven games for a total of 23 games including this one happening now. This strategy would also potentially limit what their returns would be if they do become sellers- something that GM AA is probably not so favorable of.

    • Who cares, its would be stupid to trade EE and you’re not getting anything significant for KJ no matter when you decide. You’ll get a B prospect for Darren Oliver, and thats it. Nothing about the next 2 weeks is going to change the way AA is building his team.

      • Why would it be stupid to trade EE? He’ll get a good return, and he’s never shown this kind of production before… He also has no position… I’m not saying give him away, but if you can pull a good haul from him, why not?

        It’s not like DH is the hardest position to fill, and if we could get a younger guy that brings a glove at 2B or some good pitching or a combination of those, I’d be open to moving him…

        • You’re fooling yourself if you think you’re getting anything significant for EE. So he has no position, but teams will be falling over themself to give up a haul? You might get a high ceiling prospect but you’re not getting anything that helps the team in the next 2 years, and certainly nothing close to what his current numbers are. Saying the “DH isn’t hard to fill” shows you haven’t watched the team the last decade and negates your belief that teams will part with anything significant to rent one.

          • DH is easy to fill if you’re willing to spend a little cash. Rogers is not, or at least hasn’t been since 2006-7 (which as I recall was the last time we had a credible DH).

            If Bautista isn’t traded (which he should be, but I don’t think the marketing folks will allow it) he’ll need to be in that spot, at least part-time if not full-time, within the next couple of years.

            We’re building for 2015 here. EE is not useful for that. He needs to go and I think a team like the Dodgers would be willing to part with one or two good prospects (and I also suggested that they take Lind, as they have publicly stated they are willing to take on salary).

        • If you could get a really good return (say like, Zach Wheeler for Beltran-style trade), yeah maybe trade EE. You are right that it is a gamble since he is producing in a way that he has never produced before. But the same could have been said about Jose. Many were calling for AA to let Jose go to arb. If we would have done that, it would have required a 150+ million dollar contract to extend him. AA has kept Edwin around because he knows that he has the ability to produce like he has this season. If Edwin will stick around with a fair contract — we should extend him.

          DHs aren’t hard positions to fill, but who are you going to get next year that can produce like he can? He is currently the leader with 2.5WAR. The best FA on the market next year will be David Ortiz, who will probably require a deal somewhere around 2years/30mill and that’s IF he leaves Boston. Otherwise the FA options are like… Matsui and Ibanez. Are you going to trade prospects away for a fucking DH like Billy Butler? Probably way better to just spend the cash on someone like EE on a 3 year deal. He can at least play respectable first base.

      • @ GingerCampbell, are you implying Frank Thomas was the last credible DH we had? You’re telling me you’d rather have Frank Thomas’ production in 07 than Edwin’s this year? give your head a shake. He hit 26 homeruns that entire year, which is 4 more than EE has currently, and was worth 1.6 WAR. Edwin’s worth 2.8 already. The Big Hurt also OPS’d .857, EE is OPsing .945 right now. Let’s trade EE though, because he’s easily replacable, the last half of last year was a fluke too right, and so was 2008 and 2010 when he hit 26 and 21 HR’s too. Guys like that grow on trees I hear.

  67. To the douchebags brandishing the Spanish flag in right field:


  68. I still can’t think of a single reason why Rajai Davis is the starting left fielder on this team over Snider…

    • Because Snider has been constantly hurt while Davis has played well enough to keep the job, not that hard to wrap your head around.

      • A .736 OPS is not even remotely acceptable for a left fielder.

        • He’s put up a 1.1 WAR thus far, middle of the pack for the AL, given Snider has yet to have a healthy consecutive month there’s no reason to rush

  69. Ah, see that? Lind just shit in his pants. You can see it in his pussy swing

  70. Here comes some good Zaun insight….

  71. It’s Zaun Time!

  72. I can’t leave you guys alone for a second, WTF is goning on here? Iwant answers!

  73. Some folk’ll never eat a skunk But then again, some folk’ll… Like Gregg Zaun The slack-jawed yokel.

    • We literally have a guy on this team whose nickname is Cleatus, and you have to use that song for someone else? For shame!

      • This has been Zauns song since he played on the team… Cletus will have to find another.

        • I’ve literally never heard that reference to Zaun and I’ve read this site and many other Jays sites for most of the past decade… So y’know… Maybe you and your mom sang it together, but it wasn’t a thing

  74. Angry, seething Romero has been replaced by baffled, lost, sad puppy-eyed Romero.

  75. Rogers product placement: Milos Raonic in the stands.

    • Milos Raonic in the stands? Milos Raonic in the stands!

  76. The Jays usually come out flat from the All-Star break, but this has been a somewhat odd season. They will have a three game set against Boston and NY to judge the team by if they want to wait until a week or less to make a deal.

    If they are serious about making the playoffs, they should be making a deal now rather than later because this team needs all the help it can get. If they’re just hoping to hang in there somewhat close to avoid an attendance dip, they will just sit on their hands. If they are looking for 2013-15, they will sell for prospects.

    • Problem is, it takes two to tango. Why would, for example, the Cubs jump at an offer for Matt Garza now when there’s probably still time to get other teams involved, and start creating more of a serious market for him? I’m not saying it has to wait until the last minute, but Anthopoulos has said that teams weren’t of the mind to start thinking about big trades until the start of July, and even moreso after the all-star break. If nobody’s interested in selling, except maybe at a totally non-serious, exorbitant price, there isn’t a whole lot that the Jays can do, even if they want to.

  77. Never rule GM AA out of packaging prospects with rentals for better returns!

  78. He sent off Pastornicky and Stewart already.

    • He turned a half decent lefty pen arm and various other parts for Rasmus… I’m sure we’ll see some weird deal where we’ll wind up with someone like Heyward for like… Frasor and McDade or something…

      Also… you go fucking Rasmus… 5th deck shot… Man the people at the start of this season that were dumping on him are such fucking morons…

  79. @ the game. Could Romero be any shitier?

  80. Holy fuck Colby.

  81. Fuck me, Cletus.

  82. That was CRUSHED. Off the facing of fifth deck.

    Just three more solo homers and it’s tied

  83. Thought that was headed for the fifth deck for sure,

    • 5th deck facing… we can say 5th deck… maybe it bounced out of the first row of seats…

      Regardless, that was a fucking monster of a homer… Not sure I’ve seen a ball hit farther this year, including Bautista’s ridiculous shots…

      • Yeah close enough I guess…it hit the facade. It was an impressive home run, but it probably didnt go that far distance wise as it was hit right down the line probably 420-430.

  84. All the “blow up the team” people need to chill a little bit and think about what you’re saying. First if you trade away valuable pieces like Escobar because he’s having a down year at the plate you still have to find a replacement for that part. Unless your head has been buried in the sand you should know how difficult it is to get free agents of note to come here of late which is why we’ve seen AA go the trade route. Furthermore, most free agents are going to be expensive. Unless we turned into the Yankees over night or I missed the memo from Beeston about him finally prying the wallet from Ted’s cold lifeless dead hands then payroll will still be an issue in the short-term.

    This team needs to continue to add pieces like Rasmus, Escobar, EE, Morrow, Lawrie and Santos by whatever means it can. Yes some of them will probably be via free agency eventually but to trade away these guys for some mid level prospect definitely isn’t addition by subtraction. All it is digging yourself deeper in a fit of anger and delaying a breakout with no guarantee it’s going to come with prospects.

    With resources being relatively limited you’ve got to add bit by bit because this team isn’t going to go out and fill 5 holes in one off season. We haven’t even got to the trade deadline yet to see what additions AA brings to the team. We should definitely hold back the vitriol until it’s passed.

    This team would be dumb to let a player like Escobar or EE go right now.

    Romero will eventually sort things out. I’m kind of amazed at anyone who thought one side session would solve all his problems in one go. Morrow will be back. Hutch will be back and Alvarez seems to have righted himself somewhat. With more money likely available next year (my strong opinion) they should be able to add even more to this current group in addition to whatever magic AA can work between now and next spring.

    • Get out of here with your logical thought process!

    • The offense seems to be good enough to compete for at least a second wild card spot going forward, if they keep EE.

      we can even live with dead weight in LF.

      The problem now is the pitching staff is horrid with the real talent 2-3 full years away.

      by that time, Bautista will be in his last years of his deal and we’ll have to find a solution for him.

      things are not clicking from a timing perspective as we had hoped

      • No question the entire pitching staff as a group needs to improve. However, you just have to look at the results for the first two months of the season to see that the talent is there. I believe very strongly they need another arm and I’ll be the first to admit I was upset AA didn’t get one this winter. That said, he’s going to have the trade deadline or this winter to fix that situation. What I do know is you don’t start weakening your strengths (EE) and try and fix your weaknesses. Look at San Fran they could have given in and let Cain or Lincecum walk and spent the money on big bats but they didn’t. They added where they could (Cabrera and Pagan) and kept Cain and Lincecum.

        • Signing Lincecum to a 2/$41M deal is your example of a *good* decision? He’s been almost as shitty as Romero.

          • Yes because hindsight is 20/20 it was the right decision for the time it was made with all the information at hand.

            I mean it’s so easy to go back and say you should have done this you should have done that but it’s a lot harder when you’re making the decisions without being able to see the future.

          • Yep, 1 bad year, his entire career must be over. Those 2 Cy Young’s were a fluke.

        • Agreed. The Jays should build on this year’s success.

          It also proves that even if you think a pitcher is good like Romero, he could still have a setback.

      • That’s only true if you believe that the club was ridiculous enough to think that guys drafted out of highschool in 2010 were supposed to help them compete for a playoff spot in 2012 and 2013, which they absolutely would not have thought.

        Anthopoulos talks about building a sustained winner. Having the guys now in the low minors get to the big leagues and be successful are part of that, but not all of that.

        And part of their value is as trade chips– especially as they get closer to the big leagues, as the Jays compile more data on who has flaws that make him expendable and who can be shipped off while the prospect shine is brightest.

        The Jays aren’t going to sit on their hands and wait for the guys in Lansing to get here. The situation is not nearly so dire.

        • AA has to be careful of overvaluing his own prospects.

          He was wise to get rid of Wallace by acquiring Gose.

          Will he be able to trade Gose & Hech for a young starter?

    • You forgot to tell us about stilson.

    • How dare you attempt to deflate my righteous anger! I mean really!

    • -1

      The fact that it’s a slow building process, and that both Beeston and AA have been very clear that no more money will be forthcoming until they’re right on the brink (and even then it will be a two-month rental, not a long-term deal) is exactly why they need to let go of some of the “older” guys like EE and probably Bautista.

      There are still a lot of holes on this team. We need at least 3 more good starters (that’s if you’re generous and assume Morrow will recover and Ricky will figure it out). The bullpen is complete shit. It will probably always be a patchwork and a year-to-year thing to some extent, but they’ll probably need to replace Santos if he’s permanently fucked (as seems likely). We don’t have a long-term answer at 1B or 2B. At C and LF we’re waiting on prospects who probably won’t even debut for another year, and will likely need a couple years after that to be good (if they even become good).

      With that many holes to fill and exactly 0% chance of signing a free agent (other than a scrub) to fill any of them, we can NOT afford to lose any assets for nothing.

      The guys who are saying not to panic and trade anyone right now will be the same ones who call for AA’s head when we finish 15 games out and EE leaves for nothing at the end of the year. I can see it now: “What the fuck AA?! It should have been obvious we weren’t contending! Why didn’t we trade him if we weren’t going to extend him! Fucking Rogers!” The smart ones can see that coming and want no part of it. Just trade him, get a prospect or two, and hope things go better next year.

      • Whence your knowledge of Santos’ injury and its severity? Perhaps the fates of McGowan and Litsch? I hope your thinking is more granular than that, O Bitch of Zaun.

        • I know that at the time of the deal, it seemed massively one-sided in favour of the Jays (hint #1).

          I know that Santos barely pitched at all in spring training, and the Jays never really gave a solid answer as to why (hint #2).

          I know that he has already been out about 10 times as long as was expected at the time of the injury, and it seems he’s in no better shape 3 months later than when he first went on the DL (hint #3).

          And I know that the nature of the injury itself seems to be unknown (pain “moving around” in the shoulder; no evidence of anything on an MRI, etc.) which means that we can’t really treat it, and can’t really give any kind of ETA as to when he can come back (hint #4).

          In case the hints aren’t enough, I’m suggesting that AA probably knew he had some sort of injury when the deal happened, but chose to buy a lottery ticket, as he also did by keeping McGowan around for so long. Much like McGowan, it appears the ticket is a losing one.

          But on the other hand, they did get a nice PR bubble for a week or two, and even the folks who really go to town on AA for “doing nothing” this winter do have to pause for a second and note that he did at least make one good deal. So maybe it was worth it to give up Nestor Molina for that.

          The long and short of it is that I’d suggest that anyone who is penciling Santos into our lineup for next April, let alone later this year, probably needs to rethink. And if I’m right that’s just one more hole that we need to fill, at the cost of either money (HAHAHA), other prospects (not likely), or time (most likely, but pushes back our contention horizon while we identify a suitable candidate).

          • Can you please stop making stupid shit up.

            There is so much ridiculous here that it’s hard to know where to start. For one, the deal wasn’t massively one-sided, plenty of injuries take time to heal and the Jays are being rightly conservative, Santos was throwing as hard as ever before he hit the DL, so even though the command wasn’t there, it’s not like his shoulder was completely fucked.

            Your fourth hint is especially fucking laughable, as is the AA buying a lottery ticket scenario you concoct, the horseshit about them wasting an asset (Molina came 107th on Steal of Home’s consensus top 185 list this spring, which combined the rankings of several sources, including Law, Goldstein, Sickels, Callis, Mayo, Piliere and others) for a PR move, and especially your pre-emptive laughter at the suggestion of the Jays spending money, trading prospects, or that they’re going to keep pushing back the goalposts.

            Figure it out: just because the Jays haven’t spent and haven’t traded prospects doesn’t mean that they never will. You are bashing a straw man when you pretend that it’s an organizational philosophy to never trade prospects, especially when AA has specifically stated that this is an aim, even though he’s yet to find the right situation to make the deal (apart from the Santos one).

            The same goes for spending. It’s real convenient when assclowns who want to shit on the excellent job Anthopoulos has done in turning this organization around in the two years he’s been here forget the money that’s been invested in the draft, internationally, on extensions for homegrown players like Bautista, Romero, Morrow and Escobar, and that reportedly they were offering plenty of money to free agents like Carlos Beltran, who spurned them to play for clubs with a better chance of winning right now– an indicator itself of how absolutely right the Jays front office is when it says it doesn’t think it should be spending big in free agency until it’s on the cusp of contention, seeing as, until they are, they’re always going to have to overpay huge.

            No, Anthopoulos has not yet turned the organization around in terms of the MLB record, but as much as that’s the most important indicator, it’s hardly the only one. For you to act so sour about what’s going on with the team, when it’s all based on an opinion so incredibly flawed, is absolutely ridiculous.

          • That’s a very good summary of the events. The Rogers apologists will be hyping Santos,McGowan & Litsch but it does seem that the injury is very serious.

            Atthe beginning of the injury, Farrell said he had considered not puttig him on the DL. Now 2.5 months later, no surgery is planned,no one knows what the problem is other than pain that moves around the shoulder.

            Didn’t it seem odd that the white sox gave him up for virtually nothing?

      • We’ll have to wait and see until you can properly say I told you so. I still don’t think you’d get back anything as valuable as a bonus pick next year with the upside of him accepting a one year deal.

      • We play in the toughest division in baseball. We are not going to be able to put together the Dodgers’ roster and win ball-games here.

        You guys keep talking about this “talent” that is coming up but it may never get here, and it may never fucking produce. What if this current crop of talent falls short? We going to start rebuilding for 2020? What does it ever fucking end?

        Do you really think any team is going to be in a position to compete in the AL East without either a) getting extremely lucky in the draft by consistently TANKING (like the Orioles/Tampa Bay Rays) or b) spending money on FAs to fill their holes? The Jays are not bad enough to get those #1-3 picks, and not good enough to hit 1st-2nd place. We HAVE to add these FA pieces… period.

        • Sorry, typos.

        • And getting them without the core or organizational depth gets you a repeat of 2006-2009.

          Who is to say they wont come via trade and free agency this summer and winter?

          • I hope that the pieces do come this year via FA/Trade. They sure as shit didn’t come last year.

        • If they trade EE and Bautista, the Jays may very well be bad enough to get a couple of top-5 picks (if not top-3) over the next 2 or 3 years.

          They aren’t going to sign FAs ever, no matter what. Beeston has done everything but have it scripted into the FieldTurf (which would actually be pretty funny). I don’t know why people are still even talking about this.

          I also don’t know why people keep talking about gambling on prospects as if every player isn’t a gamble. You can put together the best roster ever assembled on paper and get sweet fuck-all out of it (ask Phillies fans, who had maybe the best #1-4 starters EVER, at least in theory). Extending EE (assuming he would even want our money at this point—I doubt it) would be a gamble, just as extending Bautista was.

          This team has decided to gamble on the prospects, so they might as well go all in and grab a few more prospects who will be ready around the same time. The only cost is that they have to do a Tank Nation for the next couple of years.

          But I mean, I’m saying this as we’re getting blown out by the fucking Royals. With our “ace” on the mound. How much worse can Tank Nation really be?

          • Go and look at the philies stats this year compared to last. Since Halladay went down they’ve basically got Lee and Hamels and 3 #5 starters. You can’t compare the two years. As for the hitting it’s obvious they are missing Howard and Utley. Shit happens with injuries there’s not much you can do about it when they’re of that magnitude.

          • Why stop there? Trade anything that’s not bolted down. Get rid of Lawrie, Morrow, Yunel, JPA, Alvarez, Rasmus… why not really stock that farm up?

            There is a renewed interest in this team. You can see by the increased attendance and ratings. This is not the time to blow up the fucking team. We will see what AA/Rogers/Beeston decide to do in the offseason. Like I said before, we may not be one piece from competing, but we’re a few good trades/FA signings away (look at the Nationals this season).

            And you are right, every player is a gamble. Injury risks, deteriorating skills, etc. But there are different levels of “risk.” I would state that the unproven, prospect players are much more of a risk than, say, Bautista. Bautista is what you may hope your absolute BEST prospect turns into. Why bother trading that away and hoping we get back the same thing? Especially since he is under such a favourable contract?

        • Absolute insanity. (re: jesuschristo at 9:19)

          Right now the team has the offence to compete in this division, and with Romero right and Morrow healthy they have a good start of a rotation, which can be added to quite easily– even if you’re ridiculous enough to believe that just because they’ve yet to spend big on free agents that they never will– by trading some of the many prospects you for some reason believe they’re intent on sitting on until they reach the Majors.

          I said it above, but it’s worth repeating: if you really think that Anthopoulos planned all along on waiting for guys drafted in 2010 and 2011 to make their way to the Majors and produce the core of this club’s rotation, give your head a shake.

          The Jays’ key prospects weren’t as close to the Majors as the teams they were bidding against last year, and they weren’t quite as desperate to take on a high-cost question mark like Latos or Gonzalez (or, let’s not forget, Ubaldo, whose case I think shows that it’s not always a mistake to not spend prospects on a talented, available, under-control pitcher). Going into 2013, if they keep Encarnacion they have what appears to be an excellent top four spots in the lineup, two core pieces in Escobar and the catchers, and possibly Travis Snider as well. In the rotation they’ll have a healthy Morrow at the top, Romero (it’s crazy to believe he’ll never figure it out, even if he’s maybe never better than the last two years), and guys like Alvarez, Hutchison, Stilson and Nolin looking like strong young options to fill a spot or two on the back end, as well as providing some nice minor league depth.

          They’ll be in a much stronger position than they were this year, when there were big question marks about Rasmus, Lind, left field, Morrow himself, and the rotations spots from three through five. Not all of those questions have been answered in a positive way, but at least they pretty much know they can slot Rasmus and Morrow in as core pieces, they have a couple young starters who can fill out the back end of the rotation, and they know they need a replacement at first, and that Snider needs a long look in the second half– after which they may need a replacement in left, too.

          Yes, they need another arm, but the “talent” you worry about not being seen, is actually totally making its presence felt. There’s not a real comfortable place for Gose going forward, no place for Arencibia, maybe not even a place for Hechavarria, and there are so many arms in the lower parts of the system that they can easily part with them as pieces in a deal for a starter and not worry about destroying the system as they once would have.

          What is the problem, and where is the grand miscalculation you seem to imply exists? Things are going pretty much exactly as scheduled, if you ask me.

          • @Stoeten 10:07

            I think you and JesusCristo are basically on the same page. All Cristo was saying is that eventually some FA’s will need to be signed or players will need to be traded for for prospects, which is exactly what you just said. He’s been saying all night, the team is only a few arms away from competing. The holes at first and (right now) left field are obvious, but as I’ve even said in the past, every team has holes including the good ones. I also don’t think there’s any bitterness about AA’s lack of moves so far, its been stated many times that this coming trade deadline and winter will really show if AA can/will acquire the needed pieces through trade/free agency to be able to compete next season. I think a few needed pieces can definitely be picked up. Only time will tell if that happens.

          • At the very least, we all agree that the team ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT need to be blown up, as some people have been moronically suggesting all night. The core is definitely there, as you stated, the top 4 in the order is excellent.

          • I’ve thought the same for a while now.
            Hard to believe after all these years, we concur Stoeten.
            It’s difficult to prognosticate with certainty, due to unforseen events but sometimes you gotta call like you see it.
            If you also analyze the financial part, the Jays are indeed ready to spring forward.
            Not necessarily before the trade deadline but almost for certain,before spring of 2013.

      • Your first paragraph would make more sense if you didn’t completely make all that stuff up. (re: GingerCampbell’s original bit of nonsense)

        Your second paragraph is even dumber, with your question marks about Morrow– he’ll be fine– and Santos, who we have no reason to believe won’t be, unless we’re being recklessly negative idiots, and Romero too, who it’s very unlikely has simply woken up one day only to find he can no longer pitch. There is no LF prospect you’re talking about (unless you mean Snider), and the catching prospect you speak of could have very easily been up already. What the hell are you talking about?

        Paragraph three is somehow even dumber.

        And, unbelievably, paragraph four takes the cake. At least make your straw men resemble actual people SOMEWHAT for fuck sakes.

      • Worst case scenario, extend EE a qualifying offer. Guarantees you at least get something at the end of the year.

    • + Billions and Billions

  85. why do line drives to CF only knuckle on Rasmus?

  86. Question to all the “let rajai davis play over snider to build up his trade value”

    now that he’s back to the real Rajai, can we sit him before his value bottoms?

    • There are people like that?

    • He was a league average hitter in June, which is pretty good for Rajai Davis, and still decent enough for a fourth outfielder with the speed he possesses on the base paths– and that’s exactly what any contending team is going to view him as.

      So… no, it’s fine. I mean, you’re basing his turning back into a pumpkin on what? Three games?

  87. The fuck does Farrell always put in the worst relievers first? Like, guys who you know are going to give up the runs that cost you the game…

    I know the pen is mostly shit, but why start with the worst of the lot?

    • I don’t see Coco on the mound.

    • and if he brought in frasor, oliver, or anyone better you would be saying

      “why does he waste the good relievers in these lost cause games?”

      • Wow, amazing insight you have into my mind…

        I always prefer the good pitchers to be used when the game is still in reach… But now it’s not… but hey, maybe Janssen can “get some work in” now that it’s totally out of reach…

        • down 6-3 in the 7th with 2nd and 3rd and noone out is a great time to go to your shit ballers.

          • Well, if you just want to concede the game, sure… Shitball away! I’d just rather a 3 run deficit than an 8 run deficit…

          • Brandon, I’m sorry to inform you, but you can’t pitch Darren Oliver and Casey Janssen every day.

            No team is going to have a lot of success going 20 pitchers deep, so you’re just going to have to live with this, I’m afraid. You don’t have to like it, but there’s just no need to agonize, the margin for error is just too thing with all the shitballers Farrell has to work with.

          • But Andrew yesterday when they put in Coco we were wondering why none of Oliver, Frasor and Janssen were used. Turned out they had the day before off . Today is their 3rd day off in a row.

  88. Genius, setting up for the double play.

  89. I think it’s probably better to have Butler on with the bases loaded and face Betancourt.

  90. may as well put me in

  91. Well this isn’t very good.

  92. Oh lawl, Ricky’s night is done, thankfully

  93. David Pauley, I now know you, I am not a fan


  95. Pauley does not belong on a major league team. To their credit, 29 of the 30 teams have already figured that out.

    Chad Qualls is not much better, but has had at least a modicum of success at the major league level, and could have been had for nothing.

    The fact that AA didn’t even jump on that (a chance to get a potentially serviceable asset for nothing) tells you all you need to know about AA’s confidence in this team being able to go anywhere this year.

    Trade ‘em all for prospects.

    • qualls has had a shit tonneof more success than pauley. I don’t understand your comment on alex. Just because the team isn’t good doesn’t justify putting shitty players on the roster when better players are available for nothing.

    • I completely agree with you on this count. Beck could be stretched out if they needed multiple innings or at least he’d be capable of giving better single innings.


  97. What…wait….ummm. I thought Pauley was Mr. Groundball.

  98. why is pauley in the bigs?

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