Well here’s something completely unnecessary to get everybody fired up on a Wednesday afternoon, as Buster Olney includes the following tidbit in his latest piece for of ESPN.com (Insider Olney)…

Source: Remember how the Jays were expected to be such big players in the Yu Darvish bidding? Well, one official said that Toronto actually finished third in the bidding, behind the Rangers and Cubs, and that no bid was within $35 million of what Texas tendered.

Ugh. Don’t say I never do anything for you, clowns who pretend Rogers doesn’t spend on the Jays and insist because they have yet to sign a big free agent that it means they never will.

Don’t get my sarcasm wrong, though. The pass on Darvish still hurts. A lot. Plus, it looks pretty stupid after how terrific he’s looked so far, and there’s no Beltran excuse here, where the Jays can plausibly claim that they offered a competitive bid and were turned down– it was a straight-up bid and they weren’t even in the ballpark. Though I suppose it mitigates it somewhat to know that the Jays were one of 29 teams who didn’t bid close to what the Rangers did.

That said, it would have been nice if, y’know, they’d told us that outright before letting everyone get so worked up about it, but I guess I understand the principle that revealing their intentions with Darvish to the league may have impacted other negotiations that were ongoing. I guess. Still… ugh.

Rage away, if you still have the wherewithal.


Image via Layne Murdoch/Getty.

Comments (131)

  1. Pshhh…who needs pitchers?

  2. you’ve got to be kidding me. they didn’t even submit a proper reasonable bid on this guy?

    turns out that was the mistake of the year.

    dropping the cash and landing that guy would have turned a roller coaster ride of a season into a much more tame coaster..and with us being back…what, 2.5 games of a wildcard?

    come on.

    it wouldn’t have sold the farm. it wouldn’t have been a bad deal (ie we’d have him for more than just this year and for the fortunes of this season).

    bad bad bad call on the part of the jays.

    • I agree. It really was just money. If it went sour, it would not have ruined the franchise and the money would not really stop them from continuing the rest of what they have been doing.

      Unlike others though, I have no ill will to AA or Rogers over this. Without AA we would be such a morass of mediocrity and without Rogers the Jays probably would have left town years ago. They (in hindsight) should have tried harder (assuming this is even all true and they didn’t simply miss by 2M).

    • but but but!!! AA is a ninja!


    • Bad bad bad call on the part of the Jays
      Bad bad bad call on the part of the Red Sox
      Bad bad bad call on the part of the Phillies
      Bad bad bad call on the part of the Yankees
      Bad bad bad call on the part of the Cubs
      Bad bad … oh hell, I’m not going to do that for all 29 fucking teams that valued Darvish pretty much exactly the same, or less so, than the Jays did.

      I don’t understand how this can be perceived negatively about the Jays. This was a good move by the Rangers, as it turns out, so good job them. They have a smart front office and have built their team up very well, even making a good move on the back of the Jays (the Napoli-Francisco trade).

      Fortunately, the Jays also have a smart front office, which is why they have Morrow, Escobar, Lawrie, and Rasmus playing on this team right now, and Bautista locked up for the next 4 years (but oh noez, not to enough money to be considered a “big” contract) Should fans of all the other 29 teams look negatively at their team because they weren’t willing to trade a #3 starter with 2 years of control for Lawrie? Because by your logic, yes, they should.

      • Agreed – it is only a bad call in hindsight (which negates the whole thing) and it is only one omitted move where AA has made many good moves. I wish he did it. He probably wishes he did it. And this is mildly of interest, and there’s that…

  3. Not bothered by this one bit. Whether you’re 2nd or 3rd in line, you’re still 35mill short, so it doesn’t really matter. They valued him at that price and made that bid, which is the smart way to do things. If someone else wants to blow that bid out of the water then by all means let them.

    As for the people who relentlessly complain about Rogers not spending on the team, I’ve asked this question a few times and no one has answered me yet: When was the last time you were in the Blue Jays boardroom?

    I understand it’s difficult for some people to understand (I have no clue why though), but perhaps it’s AA who doesn’t want to spend right now? In fact, we’ve heard already that Beeston has said to him “do you want money” and he’s turned it down. I know many of you are the types that can’t refuse the cupcake on the table, but at least try to wrap your head around why others can.

    • No the didn’t value him at a price. They tried to get sneaky. AA was gambling that there would be no monster bid and they could get him for cheap. Instead there was a monster bid and he lost buy a mile. I’m sure they valued him for more than they bid. THis was a case of a ninja thinking too hard and being too sneaky. Biggest failure of his tenure so far, counting Napoli trade

      • No, as we’ve heard AA say many times, he tacks a price on every player and sticks to it. It’s no different than not signing Beede, who wanted more than what the Jays valued him at. Both listening and understanding precedence are cool things, you should try to use them some time.

      • @ SoCal
        AA wasn’t sneaky,he AND his team valued Darvish the same as everyone else.Only the Rangers, who were 35 mil above evryone else,valued him there.
        Don’t forget Darvish said he wouldn’t sign a contract that was less than the posting fee.

      • I don’t think AA was being sneaky. You have to remember that Darvish former club in Japan was under no obligation to accept the highest bid.. They were going to need something that would “WOW!” their socks off which the Rangers did. By being ambiguous about his bid, AA forced the Rangers to spend $35 million more than they really had to, which may bind them up financially down the road.

      • Wow amazing how you know the thoughts of someone you’ve never met.

    • @ Jim

      I think you’re correct with “but perhaps it’s AA who doesn’t want to spend right now?”
      Except it was right then.
      In the winter, some of the talk centered around whether Bautista would finally regress?,was Rasmus a head case and maybe a bust?,who’s in left field Snider or Thames or EE?,Would Lawrie fall to earth and could he handle 3rd after only playing it for one year?Who would play 2nd,AA wanted the pick rather than sign Johnson?Could Lind reestablish his stroke or should he be DFA’d?
      Without the answers,how can you throw 110 million on somebody who’d never pitched in the Majors? And from the looks of it ,most GM’s were cautious also.With one exception,the Rangers, nobody else valued Darvish at that price.
      2013 bay

      • I’d disagree. We still don’t know if it was right for the Rangers to spend that much on Darvish and we won’t know for a few more years. I really wouldn’t be surprised if the price that AA attached to Darvish (ball park of $70-80mill, lets say) ends up being close to what he contributes on the field.

        • Agreed.
          My point is that prior to the season starting, there were too many question marks to be resolved to make that significant of an investment.
          It’s like putting a $20,000 sound system in a $2,000 car.If you upgrade the rest of the car then go ahead and spend the dough on the sound system.But not until.

          • Yep true, I guess the only answer we know is that AA has said that he would overspend on a guy who he felt was the final piece to put the team over the top. Clearly they weren’t in that situation so it made little sense to go beyond what they felt was fair value.

          • Aha.
            Now take a look at the upcoming FA’s,look at the payroll flexabilty AA has,look at the current position players.Fewer holes and a better selection of proven players available in the off season.

    • I assume that everybody thought your question re: being in the Blue Jays boardroom was rhetorical, hence nobody having answered it.

      • I didn’t think it was rhetorical; I thought it was stupid and not worthy of an answer. But if you want an answer from someone who raged about the failure to sign Yu (at the time, and even more so now), I’d be happy to step up to the plate: no, I have never been in the Rogers boardroom.

        If you think that disentitles me to criticize management or its failure to loosen the purse strings at the appropriate time (and there was no more appropriate time than when one of the best pitchers in the world was available, at an ideal age and in a situation where he could not turn down the highest bidder), more power to you. I happen to think that you’re wrong, and that this brand of Rogers-can-do-no-wrong fanhood ensures (and deserves) mediocrity.

  4. LOL, Jays fans still blind to the reality that their owner will NEVER SPEND on this team. You will always be playing against a stacked deck (and division). Keep hoping for playoffs fools -20 years since, and maybe another 20 til the next appearance, even with the extra mercy playoff spot.

    • Dumb.

      • LOL @ fat, inebriated fool with blinders on calling others dumb. Maybe when the Jays haven’t won a playoff series in decades you’ll wake up, with our without a liver/grey cell…

        • @ Tankerz

          Troll somewhere else.
          Or maybe learn some Jays history before you spit out the old “have’nt won in decades argument”.
          Please read a bit. It would make your statements a little less emabarrassing.

        • Not all comments need to start with an all caps lol. We’d know how amusing you found Stoeten’s comment in lowercase, or even if you just conveyed sarcasm through your big boy words.

          • Aww, how cute – Stoeten’s butt-buddies Ray and RADAR come out to save his man-dignity.

            Am I wrong in saying the Jays haven’t won in decades? Please, please tell me the facts rebutting this.

          • Hey Tankerz,you’re either a troll or new here.
            I’ll be gentle with you.
            Are you wrong that the jays haven’t been to the playoffs in decades?No
            Go to wikipedia and learn WHY.
            If you need the abrevated version,ask nice and I’ll provide.
            As for being Stoeten’s butt-buddy, I don’t think anybody would say that I’m that.LOL.
            You gotta be new.

          • I like big butts and I cannot lie…

    • Geoff Baker?

    • So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?

    • They spent on Wells you meathead. And AJ and BJ and Rios and Thomas. How did all that work out? They also have spent on Bautista and Morrow and Escobar and the farm system and scouting and international players. If it weren’t for Rogers the Jays probably wouldn’t even be in Toronto so shut yer mouth.

  5. Interesting juxtaposition with the partially-Rogers-owned Raptors ready to table any semblance of a rebuilding plan and fork over what basically amounts to $60 million over 3 years to make a big FA splash with Steve Nash that makes an atrocious team a mediocre team.

    • It’s almost like the lack of spending came mostly from baseball operations and not ownership.

      • Agreed. And more to the point of Darvish in particular, it’s reassuring to know that AA valued Darvish in a manner that was more in line with 28 other GMs than the Texas Rangers who overvalued Darvish to the tune of more than double any other team.

        • Overvalued? Based on what? I think Darvish cost Texas market value for an Ace. They paid for an Ace and they got one, a 25 year old one with 0 decline years paid for, how is that overvaluing the player when you compare his cost to every other ace pitcher in baseball?

          • Too soon to tell.

          • They weren’t bidding on an ace. They were bidding on Yu Darvish, who may or may not be an ace. 29 teams apparently valued a bid on Yu Darvish, who may or may not be an ace, at $16 million or less. 1 team valued a bid on Yu Darvish, who may or may not be an ace, at $51 million. If you think the value that 1 team placed on Yu Darvish, who may or may not be an ace, is more indicative of the market value for Darvish than the value placed by EVERY OTHER TEAM in baseball, you don’t understand the term “market value”.

    • I can just see it now:

      AA: We need money to buy a 25 year old free Japanese free agent.
      Rogers Exec: No, we need that money to spend on a 38 year old point guard with back issues…and Landry Fields, for the Raptors..

  6. Or are Jays fans too drunk to see the obvious reality? Rogers has never spent on this sad-sack club, and never will.

    • False.

    • Big extensions to Wells, Rios, Bautista, Halladay. Signing Burnett, Ryan, Thomas. Since AA, they’ve been amongst the tops in spending in the amateur market and possess the largest scouting staff in baseball. Improvements/renovations to Rogers Centre, new clubhouse for the club and renovations to the visitors clubhouse…

      Yep, you’re right, they haven’t spent a cent.

      • Your first point is spot, spot on. But can we please stop pretending that we’re spending these massive sums on amateurs. The total amount we spent on drafting players and international free agents was barely what the A’s paid for Cespedes. Its such a load of horseshit the way people around here go “well, we spend 1.5 million dollars more on the draft than any other team, only mouthbreathers would say the team doesn’t spend money.” Just stop it.
        And the renovations? You mean to the building that Rogers got for basically free, that they then named after themselves and whose operating margin is pure profit (because there’s no amortization of their original cost, which again was nothing)?

        • They could spend nothing on the draft/amateur players/staff and never put any money into the Rogers Centre. I think it’s appropriate to recognize these facts and to use them as prime examples of Rogers investing in their asset, no matter the original bargain they got on it.

          • You do realize that when people say “Rogers won’t spend money” they don’t mean that they litterally have no costs right? The question is whether ownership’s investment in the baseball team is proportionate to what other owners with similar baseball related revenue streams shell out.
            Owning a capital asset (like Skydome) entails frequent reinvestment; that’s true whether its a baseball stadium or their office building at Bloor and Jarvis.
            I don’t understand why its sacrilege to point out that the level of reinvestment in the team is conspicuously low. Its like a pitcher underperforming his peripherals – you guys would be all over that…

        • Ummm Amortization is a GOOD thing…so not sure what you are on about there. Also, accounting profit is taxed quite heavily. Amortization helps reduce accounting profit.

          • Ummmmmmm Amortization of a DEBT is a good thing. Amortization of an ASSET is the same as depreciation; meant to reflect the decrease in resale value over time. You would have been right if you said I misused it to refer to a tangible asset (Skydome) rather than an intangible asset (goodwill) as it is intended. So I’m not sure what you are on about there…

        • It isn’t all about the final dollar amount. Dumb spending is dumb and smart spending is smart. Their smart spending (Rasmus, Bautista, farm, scouting, etc) is way up. The dumb (BJ, AJ, Wells) is down.

      • Those aren’t big extensions. A *big* contract is what Joey Votto just got.

        Jays will always act like an AA team, fooling gullible idiots like Stoeten into thinking they’re major-leaguers.

      • The Jays have had one-above average payroll since Rogers bought the team in 2000. Let’s not try to make their spending out as something significant…it hasn’t been.

        • Welcome Back. Can you repost your famous summary of quotes from Beeston about spending when the time is right?

          There are still several people on this blog who seem to believe that The Jays will immediately turn into a high soending team.

          Spending a few million more on the draft than the Yankees doesn’t qualify the Jays as a big spender.

  7. I want to act upset… But at the time I realized giving a pitcher who hasnt proven anything Roy Halladay money just isn’t rational..

    I think many of us are going to look back at the days when the draft and international market werent capped as the missed opportunity..

  8. Speaking of pitching.. would SF part with Lincecum at this point? If the Jays took the salary and gave away some immediate help (Davis, JPA?) plus maybe one of the good farm arms…?

    We love fixer-uppers.

  9. So no one else was within $35 million bid?
    Of course this mean there are 29 stupid GMs and 29 cheap ass ownerships in the MLB.

    • Exactly. To me, it this is true, it tells me more about the Texas Rangers, who either (a) grossly overvalue certain players compared to 29 other teams, or (b) are willing to grossly overpay and bleed tens of millions of dollars at a time. The other 29 MLB teams seem more or less to be on the same page as to the value of this player in a blind posting system.

      • That’s exactly what’s most interesting about this to me as well (posted something similar below). Why was their bid so out of whack with everyone else?

        • because the standard at the time was the, widely accepted, posting fee for DiceK.

          • Except DiceK didn’t really pan out did he? So what does that do to the next bid?

            Texas’s bid was out of whack because they can afford it with their ridiculous tv rights package.

          • That was the standard when Dice K was posted several years prior. Markets aren’t static, markets are dynamic. The ideal winning bid isn’t what the winning bid was last time there was a major posting. The ideal winning bid would be $1 higher than what the 2nd highest bid is going to be. Obviously, there is limited information in a blind posting system, but you’d still think Texas would have some idea that there wasn’t a single team in the league that was willing to bid more than $20 million.

        • One strike away from championship, and big-money regional TV deal. There is your ‘why’.

  10. I was all for signing Darvish. This would’ve made a lot more sense than adding a Mat Latos, Gio Gonzalez, Edwin Jackson, Joe Saunders, Joe Blanton, or Jermey Guthrie. He isn’t old as many FA pitchers are. He probably isn’t biased against Toronto as many MLB free agents are. He doesn’t cost prospects. All he costs is money and years. Japanese players are very high risk since so few have panned out in MLB, but Darvish from a physical standpoint probably projects a lot better than every other Japanese pitcher to attempt the transition.

    Still, having Darvish wouldn’t have solved our pitching woes this season.

    • How?

      • It would’ve made the situation better, but Romero would’ve still regressed, Alvarez still wouldn’t be able to strike guys out, Morrow would still be injured, Drabek would still walk people and get injured.

        It only adds one pitcher to the depth chart.

    • If you saw Darvish pitch before he came over, he wasnt that high a risk. im sorry, but its just ridiculous for any of us to stand here and say that. theres an element of risk in any signing.

      • Wow your a clueless idiot. No risk to spending 110M on a player who’s only pitched at a level comparable to triple A? truly the dumbest most hindsight induced comment on djf I’ve ever read.

  11. It’s not even the Jays finishing third in the sweepstakes that’s most interesting to me. Assuming all this is true, put another way, the Rangers were willing to spend more than 300% more money than anyone else for Darvish. As much as I like Darvish and would have enjoyed seeing him as a Blue Jay, I’m legitimately curious as to why a winning bid would end up being exponentially higher than the next best one. Maybe just the dynamics of a blind process, but you have to wonder if Texas would now be re-assessing how they assign values to players after setting their number wildly higher than anyone else. Surely there had to have been some kind of industry consensus, formal or informal, around what a reasonable price was, and the Rangers just blew everyone out of the water.

    • I can’t help but wonder if the Jays secrecy was part of the reason the Rangers felt like they had to spend so much. If true, go AA.

      • I basically agree with this. At the time I was in favour of the Jays submitting a Dice-K-like bid for Darvish because the upside seemed just immense given what people were saying about him. Adding a guy with as good a shot as any 25 year old in the world of being a frontline starter for most of his prime without giving up any draft picks or young players seemed like precisely the kind of move that would make sense for the Jays.

        On the other hand, I am inclined to believe that the Blue Jays and their extensive scouting department/group of analysts have forgotten more about assessing amateur (or, in this case, Japanese professional) talent than the whole lot of us armchair GMs will ever dream of knowing as a group. If their research led them to believe that the price they offered was Darvish’s true value then they did exactly the right thing. Having the Rangers pay so much more was just a bonus, regardless of how it works out.

        It’s like poker. You have to employ the strategy that you believe to be the correct one every time even if things work out well for people who are using less sensible strategy. Short term and mid-term losses pale in comparison with long term gains if you relentlessly execute perfect strategy.

    • It does sound like they are a little anxious to win.

    • Here’s how I figure it happened. None of the other teams were willing to spend DiceK money on what could be another DiceK except probably Jays and Rangers. AA thinks that he could get the steal of the century and rolls the dice that the Rangers won’t bid high, in a kind of (we give up bid) so they’ll let another team have him at the DiceK money. AA was wrong, the Rangers wanted him bad and we missed out, because AA was trying to get major cost valued player (at say a 20mil bid), when he could have just spent the money and got the player or at least been close and satisfied us.

  12. Wait, you mean if the Rangers didn’t bid, some team could’ve got Darvish for $18 million?

  13. 3rd or 30th it makes little difference to me except that it was probably the smart thing to do. What amounts to $20 million a season was highly risky. My personal preference was for CJ Wilson, at $75 million you were getting a decent deal and a lot more certainty.

    That said, as much as I want to doubt the corporate drones at Rogers, I still believe they’ll spend sooner rather than later, especially with the turnaround in the team’s attendance and the real need for pitching.

  14. Lol imagine if Texas had bid 34mil less and got him, could have saved quite a bit of money there.

    • Yeah, but that is why it is a sealed bid auction. To extract all of the value of the highest bidder. All benefits go to the Japanese club, not MLB.

  15. Just saw someone tweet this on twitter:

    “In Casey Janssen’s last five games, his leverage index is 54% of the average situation. Francisco Cordero’s last five? 97%.”

    Stoeten, time for a Dear John letter?

  16. I am missing something? Darvish has had an average season…doesn’t actually seem that good and would get raped in the AL East.

    • Welcome to the Rockies front office with that logic; “We should just not bother getting pitchers because pitchers who play for our team have a harder time than they do on other teams.”

    • By what standard has Yu had an “average season”? 124 ERA+, 10.3 K/9, and 2.3 WAR half way through a year. I only wish we had a few average starters…

      • Your Jedi mind stats won’t work on me, you’re ignoring the fact he seems to have one good game then one really shit game..the guy is inconsistent and so far hasn’t been worth the money.

        It’d be nice to have him but I’m not losing any sleep over “missing out”.

  17. I still don’t get why pretending they were close on Darvish helps them. Why would you make other teams think you’re interested in SP when you’re not? Doesn’t that just drive up the price in any offseason negotiations they legitimately had?

  18. Look at it this way – the Rangers could have offered $30 million less and still ended up with Darvish. They filed for bankruptcy a few years ago and the new ownership doesn’t seem to be much smarter. This is embarrassing news for the Rangers regardless of how Darvish pans out. Let’s remember that Dice-K was the shit in his first year too. Now? Not so much.

  19. All of the talk leading up to the Darvish bid was that it would take Dice-K type numbers to sign him. How on earth is it possible that ONLY the Rangers saw that and bid in that neighborhood? I mean – who am I to question the validity of source based material from MLB insiders.. but given how much bullshit these guys like Onley slung during the Darvish sweeps – I don’t know why we should take this as truth either.

  20. What ever. EE took him for his first ride on this side of the Ocean and that was nice to see.

  21. I remember hearing AA on PTS and Bob McGowen pushed him on whether he had made a bid. AA did stick to his “I don’t comment on specific situations” line, but when Bob really pushed him, he said that he knew what it would take to sign Darvish and if he intended to win the bid, he would have. To me this is old news, but by staying so secretive, how many more millions did Texas shell out to ensure they won?

    • Agreed. AA told mccowan he would have have to spend over 100 million to get Darvish. He wasn’t ready to that. Furthermore he told Bob that he would have to guarantee playoffs if he tried to do a free agent signing at that level.

      As for Stoeten’s comments about Rogers never spending, the fact is in 12 years of ownership they never spent more than 97 million.

  22. How long does Darvish have to have success before you can really say it was a good deal? Do they have to just win won WS? Does he need to give them five great or above average seasons?

    My point is, that it is too early to call this a good or a bad move, and long past the point of discussion whether the Jays missed out on something, because they already MISSED OUT ON SOMETHING! What is the point of discussing this non-move? Texas has him. It’s their move to be analyzed over time.

  23. The only issue I had regarding the Darvish bidding war was that the front office never even seemed to tap the brakes on the fan buzz that he was ours. Just lower the enthusiasm with a quick interview with a local media guy and this problem isn’t really even one.

    • Agreed. That was a huge mistake. Having a radio 1 hour show broadcast before the bid winner was announced on Sportsnet.

      Why setup fans for disappointment when they had no intention of winning the bid.

  24. AA strongly implied that they bid in that range on PTS with bob and brunt months ago…

    in light of this info does it make any sense that a ‘source’ of kevin gray told him that the jays were about to win the darvish bid? has anyone seen any sort of plausible explanation from that clown?

    • “strongly implied” is quite a stretch, i saw the interview. several times infact, and he implied nothing. bob and damien cox (brunt wasnt there that day) read between the lines and said OOOOH, THIS IS WHAT YOU REALLLLLLLY MEAN THEN and its just stupid.

      You have to think, if AA really is this neurotic about keeping everything so secretive, do you think he’s going to directly imply what he bid on TV? why not just say it explicitly, it makes no sense.

      • way to miss the point entirely.

        if the jays really bid in the $13-17M range… how the hell can kevin gray have ‘sources’ saying the jays are going to win the bid?

  25. Darvish had never proven anything. It’s a good thing he turned out to be a joke. Oh..shit…wait…..

    AA knew this guy had the talent or he wouldn’t have been anywhere near him. Unfortunately he wasn’t willing to take the big risk dollar wise (if Stoeten’s correct and lack of spending comes mostly from baseball operations and not ownership).

    AA you’re smart, calculating machine of a GM but at some point you’ll need to take a gamble. This is the AL East.

  26. In hindsight its silly that we ever thought we’d get Darvish. Since the start AA has run the team like a richer version of the A’s and Rays, which is probably smart; build from the inside out but have enough money that your young stars don’t split town. Its just that after spring training, we knew McGuire and Jenkins weren’t ready, McGowan and Litsch were hurt and in a best case scenario the bottom half of our rotation would hit their innings limits in September. But the Jays did nothing. They didn’t add a long term piece like Darvish, but they also didn’t try and grab a stop gap like Oswalt. I can’t help but think that there has to be a happy medium between what Parkes is always droning on about – building a foundation for lasting success – and the straw man argument – spend and trade everything to make the wildcard NOW.Couldn’t you try and grab some depth without mortgaging your entire future?

    • They had depth at the end of last year.Romero was still young,consistant and an allstar,Morrow had better stuff than Romero,Alavarez was emerging after last years debut, Mcgowan wasn’t injured and throwing great,Litsch also,either Drabek or Cecil,If any failed you had Hutch,Mcguire,Jenkins,one of which shoulda been ready by midseason.Laffey as a back up in AAA.

      • I agree with literally everything you wrote there – that’s why I specified “after spring training”

        • Yup Ray. Ooops.My reading comprehension skills dropped at bit when I hit 89,but i still got my twigg and berries ( thanks Cialis).

    • I think every team in baseball is trying to grab some depth without mortgaging the entire future. That’s the reason why it’s hard to do.

      Even the team that GOT Darvish still had to try to fill in with guys like… um, Oswalt. (Also, Oswalt is apparently now terrible.)

  27. Clear your mind must be, if you are to discover the real villains behind this plot.

  28. That’s just a token bid by the Jays. They knew Darvish was going to go for higher than Dice-K. They may as well have offered a 0.1 cent bid.

  29. I find it hard to believe that people will freak out over spending a few million on a couple years of Dustin McGowan, but wouldn’t be losing their minds if they found out that the Jays had unnecessarily spent an additional $35 million over what they needed to get Darvish as the Rangers did.

  30. ” I guess I understand the principle that revealing their intentions with Darvish to the league may have impacted other negotiations that were ongoing. I guess.”

    you’re right, had AA held a press conference to announce he had bid X dollars, it COULD have. But had he done what every other fucking front office did who was linked to having bid on Darvish and floated word out to local reports anonymously that the Jays placed and bid and it was likely a lowball, or something to that extent (if thats what happened) then it would have done a fucking lot to manage our expectations, rather than sitting back on his hands while the bullshit sources swirled and had even the greatest of skeptics thinking if there’s this much smoke there must be fire. The yankees, cubs, mets, and others all leaked word out one way or another that they didnt bid high on Darvish, and saved themselves a lot of grief in the process.

    • +1 that’s PR 101

    • The front office would have been better served by loosening the cone of silence a little, yes.

      Really, though, the red faces today (assuming the story is true…) should be in the Rangers’ front office. $35 million above the next highest bid?? Ahoya.

    • “manage our expections”
      You have a skewed view of what the front office should be putting its effort into.

  31. Ya know….Dice K looked pretty good for awhile too…

    • You mean the last time he faced the Jays and smoked their asses?

    • And Dice K’s Japanese! So he’s the only comparison EVER worth making whenever we’re discussing Yu Darvish. If only there had been another half Iranian, half Japanese pitcher in baseball – then we could be 100% certain exactly how Yu’s career will turn out, because a player’s race/nationality is the only relevant factor in assessing his career prospects…

  32. To anyone who thinks Darvish was over valued…pay attention to how much middle of the order pitchers are going to go for via trade and or FA. Might change your mind.

  33. Darvish has been a beast. I’m not sure how you can see any negative in a 2.2 fWAR rookie. Keep in mind if he could learn to limit his walks — something that shouldn’t be too hard over time — his fWAR would probably be double.

  34. Thank fuck now we have enough money to keep Moyer.Darvish wouldnt of cost us some high ceiling prospects. Now to be respectable the rest of the year which prospects do we unload???

  35. Where is fucking dumbass Frankthe Cat no. Stupid fuck.
    Here’s the plan for the Jays and Leafs:
    treat Toronto like a small market and Try to make as much profit of the cash cows of MLSE and increased ratings for the Jays at SN. Let the dumb fucks hope we have the same level of luck and scouting as Tampa.

    • I don’t think the “milk cash out of idiot fans” idea works for anyone but the Leafs. Harold Ballard was a terrible human being but a very smart man, because he figured out very quickly that his Leafs could go 0-82 with the cheapest, shittiest product on the ice year after year and he’d make a handsome profit running a cheap organization where fans would worship the likes of Clark, Tucker and Domi as though they were each the second comings of Richard, Howe and Gretzky. Running the Leafs that way works for them because any time they get in trouble they can just fall back on to the shoulders of Curt Schilling’s preferred strippers “Mystique and Aura”, who I believe hang around the ACC during the winter when the Yankees don’t have use for them; they are used to ratchet up the excitement and get people to pay through the nose for the shitty product — and it works to perfection because they are the Toronto Maple Leafs, and that logo and mystique and aura are worshipped to the point where fans have just become Pavlov’s dogs and hand over their money at the mere sight of a blue Maple Leaf. The Jays don’t have that effect, the Raptors don’t have that effect, and don’t even mention the Argos there (sadly). Look how far the Argonauts have fallen due to shitty management, and remember they are as storied as the Leafs and were on the same level of relevance as the Leafs until the late 1980s (anyone recall the 1983 celebration riots after they broke a 33 year Grey Cup drought?).

      You can run the Leafs like a shitty small market club with here-and-there playoff appearances and still be able to count your millions every day, but the other teams here actually have to try and be competitive. They should really learn from TFC, who were the hot ticket in town those first two years but then started being run as though they were a Leafs-style never-closing cash box instead of trying to win and are now losing fans and money day by day due to their absolute shit hole of an organization. If Rogers tries the Leafs style of management with the Blue Jays or Raptors those teams will be in very serious trouble very fast.

      • Very good analysis. I used to have season tickets to TFC but got fed up after 3 years because the team was very poorly run.

        The fact is that the new CBA won’t allow AA to accumulate Type B or A picks.

        AA won’t be able to overpay draft picks due to the cap.

        Rogers won’t be getting revenue sharing since it no longer qualifies as a small market.

        The next 5 years will determine once and for all if Rogers is serious about making the Jays a contender.

        I don’t think being the Rays with a bit more money will work.

  36. If they had come literally $1 away from Texas the result still would have been the same: Texas would have gotten the right to negotiate a contract with Yu Darvish, and everyone would still be whining about that missing single dollar when that news came out.

    Regardless, the posting system is a crock of shit, just like the old Reserve Clause many years ago. It’s not fair to any MLB clubs, who don’t know what anyone else is bidding and even if they win still have to negotiate the deal or else the player goes back to Japan. It’s not fair to the player, who can’t choose where to go — if Yu Darvish’s rights had been won by, say, Kansas City for he would have had a simple choice: sign with the lowly Kansas City Royals or return to Japan. Darvish wanted to play on the West Coast, and instead he ended up in Texas. He took it because it was his chance to play major league baseball, not because he enjoys pitching in 120 degree heat. It benefits only the Japanese club in getting the posting fees, but even that’s not guaranteed if the MLB club can’t agree on the contract with the player.

    The international draft would fix some of the problems, but here’s how you do it: when a player’s contract in Japan ends, they are a FREE AGENT. That means the player does not belong to any club in any country and can sign a contract to play for any team in Japan, or the United States, or Canada, or Liberia, or any other country they would like to play baseball in. There’s no posting, no drafting, no CFL option-style contracts that allow for a spring training tryout in MLB, no funny crap like that. You are a free agent, you are allowed to sign anywhere you like. End of story.

    • The posting system does suck but it was put in place and negotiated between MLB and japanese pro ball to protect their league from losing all their top talent with no compensation

  37. What I took from this article:

    The Rangers blew everyone else out of the water on Darvish.

  38. Effect what other negotiations ? They never signed nobody so that’s complete bullshit ! They figured it would be free publicity and totally miss gauged the shit storm it would kick up when they didn’t get him. And then sit back and let people think u were right there with the top bid ? Complete bone headed move. The jays brass better realize the following the jays have all across Canada. I was streaming the fan 590 on my iPhone in a hydraulic shovel in Alberta that day just hoping to hear that the jays landed darvish. I wasn’t completely surprised that the rangers out bid us but it was a gut punch none the less.

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