About to lilly arm it past the cut-off man. 

Alex Rios is tied for fourteenth in the American League with 2.7 wins above replacement, per FanGraphs. Alex Rios!!!!?!

That’s more than Edwin Encarnacion, more than Colby Rasmus, more than Adrian Beltre, Mark Trumbo, David Ortiz, Prince Fielder, Curtis Granderson, and Albert Pujols.

Alex Rios!!!!!?!

I mean, we always knew he had it in him, and it’s not like I miss him for a fucking second, it’s just… man…

Good on him, I guess.


Aaron Laffey has a 2.14 ERA this season. LOOK AWAY FROM HIS FIP, I TELL YOU!

Adam Lind hitting fifth again. It doesn’t really matter, but… two and a half years of sucking isn’t erased in a week. Not a good move.

Shi Davidi tweets that the Jays weren’t able to meet Ryan Kellogg’s price after signing a bunch of better– but non-Canadian!– prospects, so he’ll be off to academic powerhouse Arizona State in the fall.

I haven’t tried it yet, but this seems like it’s going to be a hell of a Sporcle quiz.

TV: Sportsnet

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at theScore.com. And for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with Score Mobile

Toronto Blue Jays

B. Lawrie 3B
C. Rasmus CF
J. Bautista RF
E. Encarnacion 1B
A. Lind DH
Y. Escobar SS
R. Davis LF
K. Johnson 2B
J. Arencibia C

A. Laffey LHP

Chicago White Sox

A. De Aza CF
K. Youkilis 3B
A. Dunn DH
P. Konerko 1B
A. Rios RF
A. Pierzynski C
D. Viciedo LF
A. Ramirez SS
G. Beckham 2B

J. Peavy RHP


Image via Jonathan Daniel/Getty.

Comments (209)

  1. Laffey vs Peavy is not good.

  2. Fuck Youk.

  3. Who’s the pitchers in this game?

  4. What in the blue hell was THAT.

  5. More stupidity on the basepaths. Between this shit and Coco, it’s hard to believe the decision hasn’t been made to tank the season.

    • Would said decision cause you to go away? You’re a sad imitation of a second-string glass-table journalist. Fuck off now.

      • No, I think I’d actually welcome it. Sick of the mediocrity. If you’re not going to win 90 games you might as well win 60 and get a much better draft pick.

        • OK, but I’d feel better if the Rays had actually won a championship with that very strategy.

          (Actually, I’d feel ill if the Rays won, but…)

        • Rogers Sportsnet would not tolerate a 60 win team for 5 years to give AA the draft picks he wants. Whether they admit it or not , the broadcast ratings produce enough profit that they don’t want to use a “tank nation startegy” from April.

          The Jays also benefit from the relative suckitude of every other Toronto Sports team. The Leafs,Raptors & TFC are in worse shape from a competitive standpoint than the Jays.

        • You keep saying this, Campbell, and it’s literally the dumbest thing in the universe.

          • Uh huh. And you’re going to defend it as sound baseball strategy? Or has Wilner not tweeted about it yet to give you a talking point?

          • I sometimes wonder, Ginger, if Tampa’s lack of fans can be related to their low status over half a generation. What would happen if the Jays were even perceived to be adopting this strategy for a few years?

          • You’re not quite there but that last comment was reaching for dumb as shit levels on par with the one where you thought this is basketball and that it isn’t beyond moronic to suggest an above .500 team with half a season to go start “tanking”– which would consist of, what? Sitting all their good players? Trading everybody they can?

            It’s just… impressively dumb. And that you think you can shirk away from saying something so dumb by trotting out the “Stoeten parrots Wilner” line that was incredibly tiresome and laughably false four fucking years ago is nearly as impressively dumb.

          • to GC since it won’t let me reply directly: I tend to subscribe to the notion that they’ll all come back when there’s a winner. The problem though is that Oakville is right: it would never get that far because the short-term pain (lost revenue) would be so bad Rogers would either sell the team, or start doing stupid shit like paying big bucks for the MLB equivalent of Steve Nash, which would screw up the whole strategy.

            I think Tampa’s woes have a lot more to do with:
            1) shithole stadium
            2) located a million miles from anywhere (I think it takes over an hour to get there if you actually live in Tampa)
            3) residents of that area can watch spring baseball for pennies
            4) hard to build much of an allegiance to the home team as most of the people in that area are migrants and therefore Yankees, Red Sox, Mets fans etc.

          • That all makes sense, except… it’s not a problem that Rogers won’t let them tank, because tanking would be incredibly stupid– and didn’t serve Tampa nearly as well as you seem to believe. Of course, Rogers WOULD let them tank, which is what they did at the start of Ricciardi’s reign, essentially, when they slashed payroll and budget everywhere.

          • I’m obviously not suggesting that they’re actually tanking—just that the decisions they’re making are SO supremely idiotic that it would appear that way to someone who hadn’t watched them much. Of course, that actually makes it worse. If they were trying to be this bad at least they’d technically be succeeding at something.

            Interesting to see how your stance on tanking has changed so much. I’m about 99% sure the first place I ever saw “tank nation” and baseball linked together was this blog, a year or two ago.

            For the record, I don’t think it really works—it can, if you have both supremely good management and (more importantly) a lot of luck. But it’s an incredibly inefficient way to build a winner, particularly if you have the resources that the Jays (theoretically) do.

          • Sure, Ginger, the fans will come back… at least, those who experienced better days. If the fans with deep memories are raising kids who couldn’t be bothered, there will be fewer and fewer to return after a period of perennial losing.

            The problem with Tampa, in my opinion, are not the baseball factors (though, yes, Tropicana Field is awful) but the nature of the metropolitan area itself. There is no natural centre to the place (St. Petersburg? Hahaha…), and the smaller centres cannot support an MLB franchise. Sad.

          • Here are my 2 cents as someone who spends time in the Tampa Bay area every year .

            The regional economy is in bad shape, so there isn’t much disposable income to spend on baseball games. The NFL & NHL teams have similar attendance problems.

            The Tropicana Field is in St Petersburgh which is south of Tampa. Most fans don’t like to commute to St Petersburgh during rush hour to ge to games.

            They don’t have a subway system there.

            The stadium is indoors & kinda depressing even though there is a Sting Ray aquarium & some nice restaurants there. Sightlines were good when we went.

            However, it’s depressing to watch a game indoors when the weather is pleasant.

            The team needs a new stadium similar to Marlins Park with a retractable roof.

            Tampa is a bit cooler than Miami so they could open the roof during more games.

            I do remember DJF advocating a tank nation strategy a few years ago to get better draft picks.

            Tank nation works when the picks you get can help build your team quickly.

            You also need to make smart trades & have an amazing manager.

            Farrell is not as good as Maddon at turning weak players into productive players. he isn’t Felipe Alou from the Expos.

            AA has made some good trades, but he is competing in the AL East where 2 teams are willing to use virtually unlimited resources to build winning teams.

            AA has been unable or unwilling to use the resources Rogers has to build a perenial playoff team.

            • “Tanking” in baseball is about the dumbest thing you can do. For every Bryce Harper othere is a dude that never even sniffed MLB grass.

              The comments on this blog get dumber every day. Not just the commenters though.

              Stoeten and Drew write off the Jays like 2.5 games out of the wild card means the season is over.

              Others were off the boat long ago.

              Some think the Jays are WS contenders with a couple of moves.

              You are all wrong, but you are all right. Teams much worse than this have caught fire and rode it to the playoffs, he’ll the Cards won a WS with an 83 win season ( never happen in AL East)

              Let’s see what AA has up his sleeve before we all hit the panic button

          • Please put this “2.5 games out of the Wild Card” stuff in perspective, please. Despite what Mike Wilner tells you, there’s a world of difference between being 2.5 games out when you’re the next team out and being 2.5 games out when there’s 5 other teams between the Jays and the last wild card spot.

  6. Running themselves out of an inning quelle surprise.

  7. WTF was that double steal for? sometimes its nice to surprise a team with a steal.every team knows the jays will try it.no deception at all

  8. anyone else thinking dude, shut the hell up, to the guy saying hey batta, batta, swing…. at every jay at bat?

  9. Maybe someone can explain this to me. Does a double steal with no open bases on a full count ever make sense? I mean if its a ball, they advance, if its a hit they advance, so whats really the point?

    • There are many things that Farrell does that make no sense. This isn’t the first time.

    • If there’s two out, you might as well send them since there’s no risk.

      If <2 out, and there's a hit, they will advance further since they were running on the pitch. More likely to score from second on a single, first on a double, etc.

    • I think he was afraid of the double play..which edwin hardly ever hits into anyway

  10. Always love unnecessarily running into outs against a very good pitcher.

  11. the lawrie mentality. we will be aggressive always to put on pressure.bullshit in the pros.smart teams pick successful spots.fuck

  12. I hate watching Youk, bat. Wish he went to the NL.

    • What was really annoying was hearing the whitesox fans doing the “yoooouuuuuk” thing every time the guy touched the ball. It was bad enough when he was in boston.

  13. Remember that final game vs the Angels? The fucking jays had 4 guys thrown out on the bases in the first 5 innings. it was hilarious.

    the best was the bases loaded no out pop out to extremely shallow RF where, for reasons unbenounced to those with a brain, Butterfield sent rasmus who was out by a mile

    • I was at that game. Running into outs was a problem last year. Corey Patterson was the master at running into outs.

      The Jays are close to the top in steals in the AL though, so it’s not totally crazy.

  14. The addition of Youkilis to this lineup makes the White Sox just the WORST

  15. This could be a long game. Laffey, seems to be all over the place.

  16. @Psmith this game won’t go as long as the sox yanks game

    • okay let me correct, myself. Watching Laffey so far gives me thoughts of Romero. his pitches have way to much spread. He got through the inning but I am waiting for him not to be able to find the zone. I am curious if someone would be able to create a chart, of pitchers, era, fip, xfip et all when Mathis back catches, to when Arencibia. I swear, part of the woes this season seems to be J.P pitch calling, calling for outside, sky high, et all.

  17. Linda delivers

  18. oh no homerun Lind. He’ll be batting cleanup permanently soon.

  19. Wow, lind seems to actually look a bit better…. maybe replacement level atleast for a dh….

  20. Lindsanity looking good again! I’d like to see him keep this up, just good enough that he is useful but not too good that JF will be tempted to bat him cleanup.

    • Cleanup or fifth, does it really matter? The issue is if he actually makes them think that he’s possibly a viable option going into next year. MAYBE if he had a 2009-esque second half I could almost not hate the idea, but I’m very firmly of the belief that two-and-a-half years of suck means you pretty much suck, so it’ll take a lot to get me to not keep shitting on batting him this high, or even playing him altogether. Nice that he’s hit a few home runs since he’s been back, but yeah, let’s see how it keeps going.

      I mean, it would be great to have a cheap, productive DH/1B option that hits left, but… how could we possibly have faith that it’s Lind at this point? I guess we do for Encarnacion, despite his shittacular start to last year, but it’s just nowhere near the same level of extended soiling of himself. I’d much rather the Jays rid themselves of the Lind question altogether, even if it means another team scores by acquiring him.

      • Normally I would be with you 100% on the Lind situation, but I want to hold back and see what he does the rest of the year. If does what Edwin did in the 2nd half of 2011 I’d be willing to risk bringing him back because he’s relatively cheap and the upside is there for his bat.

        Of course bringing back EE would be a priority for me first if money ends up being an issue (don’t think it will) but I believe EE is the better first baseman.

        • and on another note, funny thing is, in the Rolen deal he was supposed to be the worst of the three parts, Roenicke (picked up by Rockies on waivers), and Johnson traded to the white socks.

          • whose this johnson that was traded? Zack stewart?

          • Ya apprently zack stewart and Zack Johnson, I get confused. still my points valid, go back to the trade and EE was the spare parts in the trade we took for cinci because of a salary dump, we didn’t want him but took him for the other two, one who was waived and the other who was traded…

      • One thing Stoeten and I get to agree on. Adam Lind should not be on this team very much longer. And I too don’t care that he’s hit some home runs. Unless he turns into Jose Bautista, kid’s gotta go.

  21. Okay he looks better, but fuck, buck he is not worth comparing with Bautista, Ramsus, Encarnacion, and Lawrie. Jesus, fuck, Buck.

  22. That decides it for me – I’m putting Lind at cleanup tomorrow. Even though he doesn’t want to hit there and we have several options I just think it would be the right thing to do. Coco will also be rested by then so I’ll save him up for the 8th!

    • Don’t forget me in the 2 hole.

    • What is the point about throwing in the fact that Lind doesn’t want to hit cleanup into your sarcasm? Who gives a fuck what Lind wants? If he’s hitting cleanup, that’s dead last on the list of reasons why he shouldn’t be.

      • There isn’t really a point and I also don’t care what Lind wants. More of a silly comment than something that should be given any weight. All I personally care about is that he produce at a reasonable basis and I am extremely dubious as to his ability to do that on any sort of a long term basis.

      • I remember Lind saying in 2009 he didn’t want to hit cleanup because of the extra pressure.

        That was his career year, so I doubt he wants the pressure of hitting cleanup now.

  23. Watching the White Sox broadcast: “Arencibia from the school of swing really hard just in case you run into something”

  24. Kind of ironic that Romero and Alvarez have been the least consistent of our starters lately. I don’t expect the smoke and mirrors to continue, but the shitballers have been alright.

  25. Another good start for Stilson today. Only five innings. But good. I wonder how far he is down the totem pole (seeing as how they’re now calling up guys with 30 minor league innings and are talking about bringing up a guy who got drafted three weeks ago…)

  26. forgot my question mark.

  27. Lind is basically a left handed hitting arencibia at this point. He’ll hit the occasional HR but just have brutal AB’s the rest of the time.

    • which is better than lind from before he sent down where he was everything you just said except for hitting the occasional HR

    • yep. been thinking that for awhile. they both hit a decent amount of homeruns, but just do nothing outside of that. low avg, low obp, okay-ish slug due to dingers but not that good because so few hits.

      • Its definitely not what you want for someone hitting 5th let alone 9th.

      • big difference between the two is that JP is a catcher and offensive forces behind the plate are as rare as warm december days in The Yukon

        whereas Lind is a 1b/DH and it should be easier to find at least Major League average bat for that than it is to find a redneck in Mississippi

        • Very true. JPA’s bat is much more acceptable because he is a catcher than Lind at 1B.

          This past offseason showed that Votto & Foelder can get 20 plus million per year for elite 1B offense.

          Lind at 4 or 5 million per year is bargain basement 1B .

  28. Aaron “smoke and mirrors” Laffey

  29. Youkilis gets fisted–wow.

  30. Shit–he apparently enjoyed it.

  31. My statement is 100 percent factual as well.

  32. I really can’t believe how many fastball strike three arencibia looks at. It seems fewer than last year but still.

    • he figures once a pitcher has two strikes on him, he’s not going to throw him a strike because ..shit…..JPA flails at low and away junk all the time.

      so to cross them up..JPA..without the ability to actually recognize the pitch and take it..just decides he’s going to take any pitch….

      it works more often than you think.

      once it gets to 2-2 or 3-2…he stops guessing and actually tries to recognize and react…hence his total inability to walk as he THEN flails at the junk

  33. o h my eyes are burning. look at that star wars creature behind homeplate 4 seats to the laft. i can take listening to the yeller over looking at her.no neck at all. mmmmm farts are prettier than that and i havent shit in 5days

  34. You know, this .500 baseball is getting hard to follow. Jays need to sting some wins together and they just don’t have the talent to do it. All the spring training talk of upside and bright futures seems long, long ago. While its nice to see Stoet paying more attention to this blog, it would be nice to see AA make a deal, just to show management hasn’t quit on this team.

    • from the beginning of last year this is the most five hundredy team i’ve ever seen.

    • How can you go on long winning streaks when you have shitbags like laffey and cecil in your rotation.They have cordero in your bullpen and used in high leverage situations frequently (Thanks farrell). Not to mention, shitbags like lind, davis, and arencibia in the lineup. Add it together and its no surprise this team cant win more than 2 games in a row.

      • Yankees run out Ibanez, Russ Martin, Eric Chavez and the ghost of Andruw Jones on a regular basis. Those shitbags are doing ok. It’s all injuries, stinkers from Romero and Alvarez and a lil bad luck maybe.

        • Ibanez isnt a piece of shit and jones hits LHP’s well. Atleast yankee hitters know how to take a walk while players like lind, arencibia, and davis only know of walking back to the dugout after an AB.

    • You started strong & fizzled fast last night, my avian/canine friend. AA still needs a dance partner, and doesn’t make deals with sizzle in mind. He’s after prime steak.

    • It seems the Jays are destined to be a plus 5 or minus 5 team at the end of each year no matter who is on the roster

      The pitching injuries have hurt, but the offense is clicking now that the starting pitching is weak.

      I think it’s sad that a team on pace for 800 runs can’t be more than a game above 500.

  35. Arencibia is so bad.

  36. Still dont understand why davis is playing over snider. To build trade value? Yeah right, hes a 4th OF vs LHP. You think other teams dont realize hes a shitty hitter that had a good 2-3 weeks?

    • the thing is, playing him everyday is must as likely to decrease his trade value as it is to increase it.

      when he was going well about a week ago was the time to sit him down and freeze his stats , and bring up snider.

      • Very true. I like Davis. he is an excellent 4th OF. He is ideal in late innings as a pinch runner.

        Snider’s injurie haven’t helped but I assume AA will bring him up after the all star break.

        The jays might as well use Snider while they can since it’s his last option year.

  37. Because, what Snyder is an another streaky shitty hitter with a high (offensive) ceiling?

  38. Nice throw Davis

    Way to back up the throw Laffey

  39. Are you FUCKING kidding me?

  40. Hand them the game ffs.

  41. Cue clown music…

  42. Between the last two plays, that might be the most defensive fuckery I’ve ever seen squeezed into 60 seconds of baseball

  43. well this is quite the gong show


  45. big ta do, dick face. Instead of making a comment, about my belief, he is streaky, just like Davis, that he is so called good defense (in another post) is from the easist of the three out field positions (CF have to be quick, have a great arm, and good range, right fielders, you like to have good, range and a good arm, for throwing to third, and LF can have a weaker arm, to throw home… Show many evidence than Snider has been anything other than streaky, in the mlb, and that his defense would be worth playing in say RF when Joey Bat’s moves to first. If we use AAA stats, to say Snider has nothing left to prove in AAA, Thames is hitting better than Snider since going down from the majors.

    • A borderline Meh article on Snider, but my thoughts on where I see him. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1128238-travis-snider-curse-of-the-aaaa-player
      Has the flashes, but will never live up to the flashes.

      • you should reference better journalism than that.

      • Bleacher Report? Really?

        • did you read the authors stunning credentials?

          • Also, it’s fine that it’s your opinion as well, I’m just not sure why you expect us to give a fuck.

          • I won’t go to Bleacher Report…just…can’t…do it

          • When you comment on my comments, above then you have the right to jump on my article choice, which argued that Travis Snider be one of the Corey Patterson’s a prospect that looked good on paper but never lived up to his potential (note Patterson was former Baseball America #1 prospect).

            Show proof of 1 “sport’s journalism” article that is 100% factual and not even 1% oppinion and then you can justify bleacher report as trash. till then….

            Easy to try the shitty slippery slope of picking on 1 argument someone makes and not the others above. Just makes you look like a tool and that you enjoy arguing MR Strawman.

          • Correction Patterson was #16 and #3 in 1999, 2000. #2 in 2001.

            Travis Snider 2008 # 11 2009 #6

            Patterson was given a 3.7 mill signing bonus back in the day http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/04top10s/cubs.html

            Patterson was a five tool prospect.

            What I am arguing is this, what Jays fans liked about him was his “promise & Potential” when he was brought up.

            Meanwhile said fans, call Alvarez crap and should be waived but forget that he is 2 years younger.

          • It appears Sportsnet has published him, too…

      • Ya. See. My opinion, which I believe is worth as much as yours or your quoted article, is that Snider has never been given a proper opportunity at the big league level and that any assessment of his ability to stick at this level is an incomplete evaluation. Patterson was given year upon year of steady at bats. Snider’s never been given a whole lot more than 100 consecutive AB’s. It’s been some here, some there. I just don’t see giving up on somebody with that kind of potential without giving him a proper opportunity. But I’m just a guy. So…

        • And nobody should be giving up on Alvarez either. Most fans are retards. In any sport.

        • I am not arguing about giving up on Snider, However I believe that what you see with him is what you get, I do not see, him making hands, and feet improvement. I remember Last year when he went down, was told to work on plate discipline, and within 3 weeks of beeing back in the bigs, was choosing to ignore, all the direction he was given in AAA and went back to lacking palte discipline. I see Snider, offensive upside leaning toward Adam LInd, over Jose Bautista.

  46. Rajai Davis is not a very good outfielder, makes Eric thames look like a young torri hunter

  47. I shit my pants last night, I did! Went out and had a great meal, just a great fuckin meal. I had to go to the bathroom so bad in the car, I’m going travel hurry up I gotta shit
    and I had, just fuckin shit in my pants. I’m good uh, twice a year for that. When was the last time you shit your pants, been a while?

  48. Glad we couldn’t capitalize on Peavy being shit.

  49. Pat: you gotta hit your way on against Peavy, because he doesn’t give up any walks or any hits…

  50. Lind’s last 2 ABs have been incredibly painful to watch.

  51. Fuck off lind you piece of shit.

  52. aaaannd more bad baserunning.

    • So last night I went out to grab some food with some buddies and we end up talking to this guy that claimed he worked for the Jays in the baseball operations department, name was Ryan Mabry or Ryan Holmes, something like that …. anyway, he told me to look out for a Justin Upton trade potentially going down. He mentioned Gose, Snider, and JP as the main pieces that he heard being talking about going to Arizona. I would believe this if D’Arnaud wasn’t hurt, but since he is, who will be the second catcher?? I dunno, maybe this guy is right. He seemed pretty awkward lol. Said he sits behind the plate during most games. I guess he knows what he’s talking about.

      • Yes, D’Arnaud being hurt … THAT’s the reason to doubt this deal.

      • Complete bullshit.

      • I’ve been thinking about the possible trade of JPA too and I think they’d bring up Jeroloman until D’Arnaud was ready. They’d also have to play Mathis a lot more but I think they’ve got a lot of confidence in him..

        • JPA is not going to be traded to the fucking D’Bags after they just signed Montero to a 5year/60mill contract.

        • haha he said he sits behind the plate?? A wannabee Jays baseball ops guy? Probably. They are all losers.

      • This transaction wasn’t done in a back alley was it?

      • I guess if that happened you’d have Gomes called up to share catching with Mathis. Intriguing, but hard to believe.

      • My problem with this is, why the F*** are they even talking about fielders when they need pitching??
        The other thing would be, why would some low level awkward guy from the ops department know anything about what AA is doing?
        One thing that AA DOES like is 3 ways though so if he somehow snagged Upton, maybe there’d be a second deal with someone else?

      • I would really rather the Jays use their tradeable assets for a starting pitcher.

        After so many fake ‘insider’ twitter rumours, it’s pretty damn hard to believe you. Plus why would some Jays front office guy reveal a potential trade to some dude in a bar? … but it WOULD be totally cool if this was some scoop.

        • Ya. We need a pitcher, but I would, like any baseball fan, want Upton on my team. You know, even if:
          a) you are telling us the truth
          b) the guy you talked to was telling the truth

          It doesn’t mean that anything like this would actually occur. I’m sure the front office of every team in baseball is constantly discussing potential deals that never occur. I would imagine that’s a big part of the job. But what do I know? I’m just a guy.

        • The way AA runs things there it’s pretty much a guarantee that any front office guy who had real knowledge of any major deal wouldn’t be sitting around a bar telling a bunch of strangers about it. That’s a good way to end up out of a job.

          I was an asst. GM of an OHL team for 10 years and we subscribed to the same principle espoused by that great GM Vito Corleone: Never tell anyone outside the family what you’re thinking.

  53. I have the Jays winning this game 11-7. If I am wrong I will quit eating cheese and lay off alcohol until tomorrow at 1 PM.

  54. I’d take Justin Upton….don’t they need a 3B though? Sounds like your guy is a dumbass lol

    • I’m assuming in this scenario JPA would play third for Arizona. That’s just as plausible as it is that the D-backs, who have Miguel Montero and his .380 OBP catching for them, would want anything to do with JPA.

    • Yunel can play third…..

  55. Just me or is Hayhurst a bit whiny on twitter? lol

  56. Let’s keep this moving along…

  57. Dammit GIDP

  58. Good job Rajai. Glad we’re showcasing those leet skeelz.

  59. Fuck me

  60. Lind is not a bad hitter unless you are one of those stat geeks. The fact is last year he ranked

    35th in HR
    37th in RBI
    74th in slug

    That puts him in the top 5% of the league. Now if you think those types of players grow on trees then please find a replacement for 5mil. To just say get rid of him is fucking ignorant.

    • Did you know that most stat geeks or saber toothed metric dudes have never held a baseball in there hands. Other balls but never baseballs…think I will build a graph for that.

      • and what about the ones that played the game for 15 years, umpired at a national level and regularly talks to scouts and still use and understand advanced metrics? Im one of those and most of the bullshit you “traditionalist” stagnate thinking fuckheads keep regurgitating isnt believed by the people you think would support you in a real world debate or philosophy. Much like a hitting coach shouldn’t care about advanced stats, neither do most talent evaluators, nor should they. Theres not the same kind of data for minor leaguers as pros and its a huge developmental time where regression and progression is in constant flux. The play by play data is recorded and sample sizes are beyond small. Plus most stats and advanced stats reflect on what happen not predict what will happen. For some reason “traditionalists” think stats heads are trying to predict everything…when its that they are just trying to clear the picture of misleading stats for an individual analysis. Yes RBIs tell you that a run was driven in during that players AB. Very good thing. but what if we wanted to know in what context that happened? Stat heads need to lighten up and stop thinking because stats show a trend that you can expect that same trend indefinitely or some arbitrary point and “traditionalists” need to fuck off and stop talking down to everyone that doesnt share your narrow fucking value system.

        “Tradionalist” stat people are like religious freaks. Yes mentality, grit and determination exisst and you cant put a “value” or “number” to it, and scoring more runs is good no matter what…something that we cant see or measure affects everything and cannot be predicted. the stat heads are evolutionists. Since it cant be measure or seen we can not incorporate it in any discussion. And like most people, believe theres something there but dont know everything there is to know and sometimes like players because they try hard and has success and comes through in “clutch” situations and hate guys for illegitimate reasons like he blew 2 back to back games so he shit the bed for the last month kind of arguments. Both sides suck but fuck anyone that thinks outside the box never played the game is fucking lame and saying that entangles are anything else and numbers prove everything is shit.

        • Read your rant twice.
          What the fuck are you trying to say?
          Being an umpire at the “national” level puts you at being a level 4 umpire.
          That makes you one of less than 10 accreditted at that level in this country.
          And if you’re from Ontario that narrows it down pretty good.So i got a good idea who you might be.Or not be.
          Which scouts are you talking to?Most working in Canada are part time and do it for the love of the game and gas money.They really don’t use advanced metrics since the stats kept, aren’t to that level that it makes them valuable.Those scouts tend to evaluate the players by watching them because they must adjust their opinions based upon the competition the player they are scouting is playing against.Even Connie Mack players need to be seen.
          Just curious, thats all.

          • I gotta stop responding to stuff at 3 a.m.
            Reread the rant again.
            511′s right, a lot rings true. Sorta backed it up myself in the second part of my rant..
            Yes, I know level 4′s are international not national.
            No delete or edit button.
            So this is the best I can do.
            I’m so ashamed,I made a mistake.Gotta ban myself again.

          • RADAR reigns supreme, SUPREME!

          • The term predictive analytics is of course a tool to use in advance of a situation occuring. So fuck-head traditionalists, as you call them, can in fact wrap their tiny brains around these complex models you refer to. Problem with your approach is that you get paralysis by anaysis happening in the heat of the battle. Nice to hear about your life history in baseball though.

        • I read the rant carefully as well and … aside from the ‘what the fuck are you trying to say?’ aspect, a lot of it rang true to me. Edited down a bit, I like it.

        • The biggest change in baseball management that I’ve seen in the past 10 years is the increased use of statistical analytics on developing players, initiated by team that were economically disadvataged. So yeah if you want to just be competitive then disect away. You’ll never win this way, or at least non of the ‘moneyball’ teams have, and arn’t likely to.
          I don’t need to understand how an RBI is generated, just tell me how many-I can make all the right decisions from there….and will pay accordingly. All the derogatory comments don’t make your argument any stronger.

        • Holy fuck! It was said using a 4 to1 HTFMI (Humor To Fucking Meaning It) Ratio. Taking a small sample size of my somewhat sarcastic and shitty posts probably doesn’t give you the leverage to go ahead and label me a “Traditionalist” (Although I am a fan of opposite sex weddings). Anyways carry on there is nothing to see here.

        • Your rant started off strong, then you lost all credibility when you said that the data is not there for the minors but it is for the pros.

          unfortunately, minor leaguers are pros too.

          so your statement actually makes little sense.

          • It’s not the sample size for minor leaguers that’s necessarily impacted, it’s the quality of the data that’s compromised. A perfect example of this is Anthony Gose in 2011. The Jays did not let him bunt, and had him hack away in all counts, even with two strikes. This is why one of the main criticisms of Gose prior to this year was his two-strike approach – because there was an organizational edict for him to not have a two-strike approach last season. It would be foolish to draw conclusions of his major league value based on data derived in the minor leagues in which his primary focus was on development, not optimal production.

  61. these are all the active players that have more home runs than lind at the age of 28 or younger. Lind has tonnes of potential and is still young. You don’t just give that away for nothing.


  62. I was at the game tonight. Now I really hate Rogers Centre.

    • I forgot you said you were doing to a game in Chi town.
      You really do get around.
      Glad you had a good time.

    • saw you on the tube. 2 women with off coloured jays uniforms behind the jays dugout.wish the jays won though

  63. Lind is what he is at this point….a guy who should not play against lefties and who shouldn’t be close to the first half of the batting order. Used properly, he isn’t horrific but he isn’t likely to be used properly and it is quite unlikely that he will improve much at this stage of his career.

    • For what it’s worth, he had a great first half last year. Since then, of course, he’s been one of the worst hitters in baseball. But we’re paying the guy, we have no viable alternative and he can put together some pretty god stretches. As for batting fifth in the order, I’m not sure who people would rather see there. Johnson? Escobar? Davis? Arencibia? I’m not sure any of those guys are hitting better than Lind at the moment. In fact, I’m relatively confident that they are not. But yes, let’s hope Adam Lind is not our starting 1B/Dh in 2013.

  64. You know what’s kind of funny? If the Jays had signed Prince Fielder, it probably would have been at the expense of Edwin Encarnacion getting regular playing time. Just sayin’.

    • Only if Farrell had been dumb enough to use Lind over E5 at DH. Given their respective starts I’m pretty sure that would have sorted itself out pretty quick, even if he did try a platoon at the beginning of the season.

      • Ya. I’m pretty sure he would have kept running Lind out there. I mean, we’ll never know, but Lind is backing hitting fifth already. So they clearly want to give him every opportunity. It took an awful long time for Farrell to even drop Lind down in the batting order, let alone sit him down. Besides, if Encarnacion was only getting infrequent AB’s at the start of the year, he may not have gotten into the rhythm he has this year.

        • And, ya. Encarnacion’s been significantly better than Fielder this year also. (But that’s a tough ballpark in Detroit.)

  65. Whats with all these Lind defenders ITT lol.

    Since 2010 he is dead last in value contributed among all qualified 1B with a -0.6 war and a batting line of .239/.291/.427 in 1325 AB.

    If he keeps up his post-promotion level of play I would have to re-consider. I’d suggest there’s very little chance of that though. He’s had literally one season in his entire career where he was a good player. For whatever reasons he has sucked otherwise.

    It’s downright pathetic that this guy has had so many AB in the top of the order, he stinks.

    • No doubt about it. That said, what do you see as a viable alternative? David Cooper? They’re paying Lind a substantial amount of money, and they want to try to get something out of that investment. I’m not sure that counts as a “defense of Lind”. I just understand why they’re running him out there.

  66. So you’d rather see KJ batting fifth again right now?

  67. Also, you know, Chicago’s done alright with their Alex Rios waiver claim. (Two out of three years so far anyways.)

  68. In other news I think a new stat besides WAR has to come into fashion because despite the fact that average and rbis are outdated (and I know this) there is just no way Alex fucking Rios is better than a player who can play 3 positions, is hitting .300 with , what, 25 hrs and almost 60 rbis and nearly 10 sbs? Fuck me, there is just no way that Rios is better than EE.

  69. Ya. I’m not a big WAR guy either (in any variation) because, for position players, it overvalues defensive metrics that I don’t buy into. For pitchers, it overvalues fielder independent stats, that I don’t believe in either. But that’s just me. I’m just a guy. That said, Rios has been very good this year. I dunno about better than or worse than some of the guys he’s allegedly better than, but he is having a very good year nonetheless. He had a pretty good first year there too. When he slumps though, he’s pretty fucking terrible.

    • I couldn’t agree more. I wish people would just cite offensive WAR and add “with plus defense.” You know you can’t quantitatively value defense, we know it, and it ruins what is otherwise a very smart metric.

  70. Anyone griping about Bautista and his inability to hit with RISP? I’m finding it selfish that every time he comes up with RISP he swings for the fences.

    Dude needs to understand it’s a team game and singles will do nicely.

    • I disagree completely. What you are seeing is called confirmation bias. You expect to see that, so you do. The best baseball players fail 70% of the time. Whether or not runners are on base really makes no difference. If Jose gets up and it happens to be one of the 30% hes gonna get a hit, then he gets a hit. I doubt he could be as good as he is if all he was trying to do was hit homers. I am pretty sure his approah is to just get a pitch he likes and try to hit it as hard and as square as he can.

    • you are right, he’s only opsing .815 with risp. most of his hr are solo homers. he needs to chill a little.

    • A Tisket, A Tasket

  71. Although my analysis is calling Jose a .300 hitter when he’s more of a .240. If his OBP is around .380, then lets just split the difference and say the point remains the same. Still, I thought I’d preempt the obligatory correcction. WHy the fuck do people expect everything on the internet to be 100% accurate? For me, the gist is good enough.

  72. and what about rajai. the guy is a utility player. he got hot for a month and has sucked for almost 2 months. there is no reason for him to be in the lineup. time to call up snider and give him the remaining 300ab’s. the only logical conclusion why he’s not here is because alex wants to inflate his pcl stats for a trade.

    • That isnt logical at all. I dont think Alex is the only one who knows about PCL stats being inflated. Are you assuming all other gms are retarded? How about they just want his wrist to be healed?

    • Negative. It’s not a mission priority.

  73. It’s not the only logical conclusion. AA has said that he thinks Snider’s development was hurt by the fact that he never played a full season at a level since Lansing. He thinks Snider needs to learn how to make adjustments in response to opposing pitchers making adjustments to him. I think it’s less about numbers for him than about the process. But we’ll see. Maybe he’ll be up tomorrow or something.

    • The only logical action, would be to logically think this out, and try to come to a logical conclusion. I hope my logic isn’t too illogical, but I must stand by my logic, whatever the case may be.

      • Sounds logical to me.

        • Humans are incapable of consistently applying logic to their thoughts and comments. It simply is beyond their primitive nervous system to do this.

          Although half human, my vulcan side is indeed strong enough to allow me to institute true logic into all my thoughts and actions.

          I say all this with no emotion. Simply stating facts as Mike Wilner has taught me.

  74. Got up in the morning and took the most perfect double tapered shit I’ve ever had in my life.

  75. Hear you all ask about the meaning of stat. Well I’m the professor and all I can tell you is While you’re still sleepin’ – the saints are still weepin’ – cause Things you call dead – haven’t yet had the chance to be born.

    I’m the Statman.

    B-B-B-Be Bop a Bodda Bop
    Bop a Bodda Bop
    Be Bop a Bodda Bop
    Bop a Bodda Boop
    B-B-B-Be Bop a Bodda Bop
    Bop a Bodda Boop
    Be Bop a Bodda Bop
    Bop a Bodda Bop

  76. Its kind of funny looking at the red sox lineup and seeing ortiz and gonzalez surrounded by replacement level players.

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