Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic wrote last night about the Diamondbacks and their odd souring on the extremely talented Justin Upton, who has been the subject of much speculation over the last week– and since club owner Ken “Don’t Call Me Kyle” Kendrick threw him under the bus last month.

“Yes,” Piecoro writes, “as far as I can tell, the Diamondbacks are seriously open to the idea of trading him, as incredible as that sounds given that just a season ago he was making a push for MVP consideration.”

“Sources say that if the Diamondbacks do trade Upton, they’d most likely want a third baseman, shortstop or top-of-the-rotation type starting pitcher,” he adds.

The Jays are certainly not about to trade their current third baseman, even for Justin Upton, but that doesn’t mean that Piecoro doesn’t see a potential fit with the Jays.

The Pirates are reportedly interested, but, according to sources, they don’t match up well with the Diamondbacks. A team that might? The Toronto Blue Jays.

Their general manager, Alex Anthopoulos, seems to covet star-caliber players – or, at least, players with the potential to be stars — even more than the average GM. He’s known to be aggressive in pursuing deals. And he might have the pieces to make it happen.

The Blue Jays’ highly regarded minor league system includes a shortstop in Adeiny Hechavarria whom Diamondbacks scouts are known to like. It would take a lot more than Hechavarria to entice the Diamondbacks, but he could be a start.

It’s worth repeating that clearly Hechavarria couldn’t possibly be the only piece of a deal. It would take a lot more. A lot. But if you start to add in some pitching prospects, or guys acquired via other organizations, the way Alex Anthopoulos did in last year’s Colby Rasmus deal, and Arizona’s potential interest in Hechavarria as a starting point starts to make you wonder if there couldn’t really be something there. As Piecoro points out, Upton is exactly the type of player Anthopoulos seems to go after– and he’s under contract for $38.5-million for the three seasons following this one.

So… there’s that.


Image via Christian Petersen/Getty.

Comments (350)

  1. Why would you go and get our hopes up like this?

    • If Arizona is moving him, why not the Jays? It’s time.

      • Time to give up on Snider? Upton has been playing like shit and is expensive.

        • Yes.

        • When the Jays picked up Morrow, he was playing poorly
          When the Jays picked up Rasmus, he was playing poorly
          When the Jays picked up Escobar, he was playing poorly.


          I am seeing a trend here.

          • Escobar playing like shit.

            Morrow has not had one consistently good season.

            Lets see how Colby does for more than 200ABs before declaring him a stud.

          • and the players were either being dicked around or they were themselves, being a dick. or their dad is a colossal dick

          • Ya true but all of them are doing really well now just takes time

      • And he is what we love: disaffected young studs.

        • cristo, we gave up nothing to get those guys

          • @Jesuscristo: Escobar is currently playing not well… a departure from previous performance as a Jay

            Morrow has not had one consistently BAD season as he’s learned how to be a full time starter, and has looked like ace quality material when he has it all working , which is happening with increasing frequency as he gains experience in the role

            Rasmus’ hot play is looking a lot like his standout sophmore season with the Cards, before TLR stole his mojo

            But that doesn’t fit with your usual “these guys all fucking suck trade Bautista to a contender” narrative does it?

          • UPTON! Holy offense Batman! We would have the best lineup North of Arlington for sure.

      • I think Hecchavarria, Snider and Chase Headley could get it done. question is, what would we have to give up for Headley.

      • AA loves him some “distressed asset”. With Upton’s seemingly Terrible attitude and disinterest in playing baseball in Arizona do you think playing in Toronto would help that obvious problem ? This would leave no room for snider if he wasn’t included in the deal.

    • It’s hilarious how Cristo is totally willing to give up on Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus, Bautista, but he really sees it as a shock that we might be willing to part ways with Travis Fucking Snider; the perfect picture of inconsistency.

      • First off, I didn’t include Bautista in that list. I think it’s safe to say that he has made the necessary adjustments and has been pretty good over a period of time. With that being said, he did enter a prolonged slump that lasted after the ASG last year until what… June of this year? Who knows what happened.

        I don’t feel I’m being inconsistent at all. I didn’t say “give up” on those players. Maybe I wasn’t communicating effectively — but what I was trying to get at, was that the story hasn’t been completely written on these players. AA paid very little for them. so I guess even if they stop producing right now, we could probably call those trades “wins” (Collins would be nice right now though…).

        As far as Travis Snider goes, you do realize he has had a grand total of 232 PA at the major league level? Not once was he given over 100PAs in a single season. Upton is probably going to cost 4 solid prospects — even in a 3-way deal. We could have a very productive LFer sitting at AAA right now. We have never given him the opportunity. But now its too late isn’t it? Because it’s either fuck or walk on Upton. Rather than seeing what we had either a) last year b) this year, we decided to dick him around and now we’re in a tough spot. We don’t know if LF is on our shopping list yet, because we never gave Snider the chance to prove himself. When Rasmus shit the bed hard last year/beginning of this year, we didn’t dick him around.

        Shrug, part of me hopes we trade for Upton and Snider becomes a fucking perennial all-star on some other team.

        • Say what? I think you have games and PAs mixed up. Travis Snider has 232 GAMES played in his major league career, not 232 PLATE APPEARANCES.

          877 plate appearances is what Snider has. Sure, it’s still a reasonably small number but Snider hasn’t been as good in his last season as he was when he first came up – he’s regressed and had injury issues, so there’s no guarantee he’d ever get back to where we hope he’d be.

          Justin Upton or Travis Snider? Easy decision – Upton’s ceiling is much higher.

          But… I thought we need pitching far more than we need something like Upton?

  2. Which makes moving Bautista to the black hole that is 1B that much easier/better.

    • Which makes *replacing* Bautista in right, freeing Alex up to trade him for a King’s ransom, easier/better.

      • Or playing Jose at 1B where the Jays currently have no present or future.

        • Extend E5, replace Bautista with Upton and still come out ahead on the net return for JoeyBats > Upton.

          Lose nothing keeping EE, get younger with Upton who makes more sense for our 2013 – 201x window, and end the day with more prospects than we started, which can play onto team for 2013, or can be used to acquire pitching.

      • Um… no.

        • Not saying I like the idea but Young Parkes was saying as much earlier this season. Sell high on Bautista is now if he can’t help the team when it is truly competitive when the high-end pitching reaches in a couple years.

          • This team is one of the truly elite offensive teams AS IS.

            The pitching has been decimated by injuries, and we’re STILL 2.5 GB of a playoff spot (and would be even if there was only one WC still)

            The team is good enough with the names on the roster to make the playoffs right now. We are not “wasting” Bautista by keeping him. Not to mention I can almost certainly see us getting pitching help this offseason, given how there’s going to be ton of good arms in the market this year.

          • He lost the HR Derby. His stock is at an all-time low.

          • Parkes is an idiot, Rakemus.

          • So we have great hitting and poor pitching and you want to trade away the best hitter so we can look forward to good pitching and poor hitting?

            What about trading a bit, just a bit, of the pitching talent and opening up the wallet a bit and landing 2 good starters now. Plus Upton and we are contenders.


          • Can’t bank on two FA signings, sons, but they could trade for one and sign another and still have the pieces to add a bat.

          • I remember that post as well and I agree with you. It seems based on his age that Bautista will start to go into decline as the younger guys are ready. Wouldn’t it make more sense to try to have a team that is all around the same age that can grow together? I know Bautista is still really good but the Jays are not going to compete this year and maybe not even next year (the pitching is still not there) and he will be a couple years older by then. Would it not make more sense to trade high and bring in more pitching? I know that would be a big loss offensively but who is to say that he wont be in decline by the time that everything lines up right?

            Just my thoughts

          • or flip Upton for pitching, filling a need and acting as an intermediary in tried and true AA fashion

          • Fuck people, can we please stop with the ‘trade Bautista” talk. He is a top 5 hitter in MLB and in a couple of years he will regress to a top 20 hitter. WHATEVER WILL WE DO WITH THAT KIND OF SHITBAG ON OUR TEAM!!!

          • Colby Smashmus is way better than your name. Just saying.

          • I don’t see Bautista moving out of RF. If we extend EE, I feel he sticks at 1B.

            Trade Bautista. Let’s get another Kyle Drabek in here.

          • in responose to RobA: I think a lot of baseball observers would have had the Jays ranked as one of the top 5 offensive teams in baseball this spring:

            Red Sox

            the Jays have a very potent offense, but i think we would all agree that the jayts are still a tleast one bat behind the top 3 teams on that list. we want one or two more legit bats.

  3. Soooo, we’re getting Justin Upton? Cool.

  4. I would trade pretty much anything to land Upton.

    • Like… I dunno…. Hech, Hutch and Syndergaard?

    • Agreed. Other than D’Arnaud, for me, I would think anybody in the minors should be available.

      Because this is fun, how about Hech, 1 of Gose/Marisnick, 1 of Syndergaard/Nicolino/Sanchez?

      That might not be enough but probably a real good start.

      • I would definitely offer a package of Hechevarria, Marisnick, Syndergaard, and maybe someone like Santiago Nessy.

        • Wow…..u guys are kidding me right

          AA declined A’s offer of Gio Gonzalez (much, much more valued than upton right now imo) for noah syndergaard alone.

          Giving Hech + Arencibia is more than plenty
          Nicolino, Sanchez and Syndergaard should be untouchables at the moment. These guys can potntially be the next 1-2-3 punch comparable to what Atlanta had in the past in Glavine, Smoltz

          • Um… no, the A’s simply had Syndergaard “at the top of their list” when AA was talking Gio, reportedly. That does not at all mean that they wanted him alone straight up and AA said no.


            Also, while Gio may be having a better year, I certainly don’t think that he has more value, even now, than Upton– and talking about his value now, as opposed to in the winter, when his command had yet to take the step forward it appears to have in the first half changes what you’re saying as well.

        • Give them Arencibia. They wanted him or at least inquired about him before. I would try and avoid offering up Syndergaard. I think he needs to go in any deal to acquire a frontline starter.
          The 3some at Lansing needs to be held onto at all costs, except for a top pitcher.

  5. For a player like Upton, i’d be all for AA in trading some of the Jays high-end prospects. This type of player being made available is why AA has been hoarding high end draft picks to be used to acquire a talent like Upton.

  6. Upton would be a MASSIVE upgrade on davis in LF. I think a package of hech, gose, and syndergaard should be enough to get it done. Maybe throw in a jenkins or deck mcguire. They could trade snider instead of gose or vice versa and use the other in a trade for a SP.

    • I would do that deal and give them the choice of Snider or Gose.

      • You guys really need to take a look at Jenkins and McGuire’s numbers.

        While we at it, how about a Leafs-fan style trade: Cooper, Jenkins, JPA and Sierra!!!!

        • Jenkins or McGuire could actually find success in the NL West as the 4th-5th starters they were pegged to be. in the AL BEast… not so much

          • They both hit a speed-bump this year… but with some improvement in the latter half, they could be 4-5 starters in the AL East.

        • didn’t we hear minor league numbers are unreliable to extract major league performance from for hitters in the PCL? so why are these ones more reliable to evaluate the talent? Do you think other gms simply look at the stat line for these players? Would you want our GM to do the same? How have they performed when you went to watch them?

          • I don’t think there in the PCL…I believe they are struging in A ball.

          • because, unlike us poor unwashed fans who have to rely on numbers as the basis point for our prospect analysis, gms have scouting departments (as well as the ability to watch hours of video and take scouting trips themselves) to round out their evaluation of prospects. thus they have more complete information based on first and second hand reports on guys we know only through box scores and the occasional report from the media, most often of the ball-fluffing variety. So if the word is that the D-Backs are high on Hech, and that word is, in fact, truth, then they certainly have their reasons and likely see some of the same things that have professional talent evaluators saying that he may have begun to figure some things out at the plate.
            Also, don’t forget, this is the club that gave the batless glove Johnny Mac a two year deal this offseason. It’s not like they don’t already have the prototypical soft hitting shortstop on the team lol.

  7. Snider’s gonna have a tough time cracking the lineup if we have Upton. Then again, this is a good problem to have.

  8. Does anyone think Hechavarria, Gose and Nicolino gets it done?

    • Nope

    • Personally, I doubt that’s enough. I think you would need to add another ‘B’ prospect; maybe one of the catchers in the system like Carlos Perez.

    • Yeah it should work. Honestly, I’d rather give up syndergaard since he seems more likely to be headed to the bullpen due to a lack of secondary offerings.

      • I agree with Garold, a ‘B’ added in could work. Syndergaard seems to have the highest ceiling of our Lansing guys (so I read), which is why I’d be hesitant to add him. That said, including him wouldnt be a deal breaker for me if I was AA.

        • From all I’ve read, Sanchez has the highest ceiling in Lansing and I would still include him in a deal for Upton. For a guy of Upton’s caliber, I think you do what it takes to get him. You can’t be dreaming on your Low-A prospects potential.

  9. Personally I see this deal 100% happening as long as they dont want d’Arnaud, Gose or Syndergaard as those are AA’s babies. Hechavarria, Hutchison and another prospect, sure, do it up. Upton’s value is low just like Rasmus’ was when AA stole him from a team he was no longer a real part of. Upton is in the same boat and the idea of an outfield of Upton, Rasmus and Bautista gives me a boner that I could probably lift weights with.

  10. Wondering if Arizona would also (along with the prospects) be asking for a current player on the big league roster. Not sure Jays would be willing to give up anyone of substance, so a 3rd team (a la WhiteSox in getting Edwin Jackson last year) might come into play to get this done.

  11. I think I know why Upton’s been having a down year (by his standards). It’s pretty obvious from the photo. He’s batting with that big weight on his bat! Take that thing off and I’m sure his batting average will improve.

    Also, maybe the bad chinstrap.

  12. Fine and dandy but aren’t there pitching issues that should be addressed? Shouldn’t the needs come before the wants?

    • When elite young talent like Upton inexplicably becomes available, you need to pounce. Teams aren’t willing to trade players like Upton very often.

    • I kind of feel this way too — pitching is a bigger concern right now. But I’d still have no problem trading for Upton.

    • Agreed. If this has no bearing on the Jays getting pitching help, then OK. But only if.

    • Lots of arms in FA this coming offseason.

      • not anymore. its pretty much Hamels and Greinke (neither of whom are likely to get signed by the jays) if they even make it to FA

    • You win by scoring more runs than the other team. If we had a full lineup as awesome as Bautista, Upton, Rasmus, EE, Lawrie, I could pitch and we’d still win.

    • If you have a chance to acquire a talent like Upton you can’t wait for it to happen when “you’re ready.”

  13. Jays fans aren’t the only ones waking up with a bizarre erection and a strange, new Justin Upton fantasy this morning

    “Tigers should explore trade for Diamondbacks’ Justin Upton”

    “Pirates interested in trading for Justin Upton, Carlos Quentin”

    “Is the Rangers’ next star outfielder playing in Arizona? ”

    Just as a sidenote, his 4-team no-trade list back in 2010 was the Tigers, Mariners, Royals and A’s. He’s apparently changed that list since then, and goddamn, wouldn’t it be a kick in the teeth if the Jays found themselves on that list.

    • Why would he want to come play for the Jays? He has probably read about our payroll parameters.

    • I believe the Rangers could get a deal done, but the Pirates and Tigers would have to part with blue chip prospects in order to make a deal, and i dont think either of them want to do that.

      As I see it, not counting d’arnaud – the main difference with the Jays is that we have an overwhelming crop of ceiling guys who other teams covet, the tigers and pirates dont.

  14. maybe we can get Bossman Junior too, that would be a pretty amazing outfield.

  15. Dooooo it!!!!!

  16. you dont pass up on a chance to land a superstar caliber player.
    The goal is to improve the big league team in the short and long term, needs and wants aside this definitely does that.

  17. Not to shit on the welcome party plans but when has a rumor regarding the Jays under AA ever been true or come to fruition?

    • There were some rumours about Rasmus before it happened.

    • This applies more to FA than trades, I think. For example, AA’s infatuations with Kelly Johnson and Anthony Gose had been well-documented for years before they were acquired.

    • His “interest level” in players (Garza, Greinke, Rasmus, Gose, D’Arnaud…) seems to be pretty well gauged across the league. When “actual” trades are rumoured, though, never believe them! #ninja

    • It’s not a rumour, though.

      It’s Piecoro reporting that AZ scouts are high on Hechavarria, and then speculating that he, plus other pieces the Jays have, could make sense if the D’Backs are interested in offers on Upton– which they supposedly are.

      In no way is it suggested that it’s been discussed or is in any way a thing other than as speculation on a possible fit. So… I wouldn’t call that a rumour of what AA is up to– more like trying to think along his lines.

      I think Rasmus’s name briefly came up in the same way, long before anything came to fruition– not because of any particular insight or foreknowledge, mostly because acquiring high impact talent for 80 cents on the dollar seems to be AA’s MO, so it only made sense, once things really started to sour in St. Louis.

    • Well this isn’t a rumour – it is an article explaining how a fit exists between these two teams.

      • Exactly what I said! Only… y’know… a million times more succinct.

        • Fair enough. These posts are fun but they get everybody’s blood pressure way to high. I agree with you all he said was “this could be a good fit for both teams” however then that thought snowballs into rumors and craziness and then when Upton either doesn’t get traded or is traded to another team all of the morons go fucking nuts and get angry with AA and hate on Rogers and hate on the teams and it just becomes a giant bitching party.

          • Oh I agree the morons go nuts. But they are nuts no matter what you say and even if you say nothing.

      • Its a rumor now.

  18. No way Rogers can afford to take on that massive salary.

  19. Not usually one to dabble in fake trades, which may lead to the stupidity of the next question… but….

    Hypothically, if you’re going to get an Upton, why not send Snider with Hechavarria? I’d imagine an OF of Upon-Rasmus-Bautista would be just fine, thank-you-very-much, Or even Rasmus-Gose-Upton (with Bautista sliding to 1B?) if thats the rouyte they wanted to go.

    If you’re going to be getting on OF, it would make sense to ship one back, would it not?

    • I don’t think Snider has the blue-chip trade value we all like to pretend he does. I love the guy, we ALL love him, but there are 29 other teams in baseball who see him as an occasionally-injured triple-A chubby corner outfielder with a wildly inconsistent bat.

      If I’m AA, I’d be more than willing to part with Hech and Snider plus a couple prospect-porn arms tossed in for good measure, but I’d guess the more likely route would be a Colbyesque dizzying three-team multi-swapping extravaganza

    • I think Matt’s partly right, but goes too far in being down on Snider. Teams still see the value there, surely, just not nearly what it once was. Keith Law isn’t the be-all end-all on this stuff, but he gave him an honourable mention among 25-and-under players he thought could bounce back this year (or something like that), and still believes in his talent, from what I’ve seen written. Surely other teams are seeing the same things.

      Regardless, it’s a moot point. The article says that AZ’s got outfield depth– Gerardo Parra can’t get full time duty even, for example– so that’s not really what they’re looking for.

      Could they spin Snider to get a piece that AZ does want? That’s more likely– y’know, inasmuch as any of this “likely,” which it kinda isn’t.

      • You nailed it on the head when it comes to Arizona’s outfield depth. They have no need for any more right now. Infield help and arms would be what they’d probably like to get back.

        Of course who is to say Snider couldn’t be packaged with Upton if a third team is involved. Though if they plan to move Upton on I’d think they Jays would be more inclined to keep him at that point. Of course it just depends what they’re getting back.

        • They would be crazy to move him if they can acquire him, I think.

          • Really? When they could potentially get back the pitching they desperately need. This situation reminds me of what San Fran did with Sanchez and Cabrera. Obviously the talent levels are different but they traded pitching depth for offense when they most needed it.

            Like I said, I’d be ecstatic over that outfield, but we’ve got depth there too but nothing depth wise in the short-term for pitching. Upton could bring some impressive talent to the rotation.

        • I wasn’t aware of Arizona’s outfield depth, but that still wouldn’t prevent them from wanting someone like Marisnick who is a couple of years away and has star potential.

          In fact, in a Fangraphs article the other day, Marc Hulet hypothesized that the Marisnick promotion came at a weird time and that the Jays might be showcasing him.

          • I base this on absolutely nothing, but I’d be shocked if they traded Marisnick and kept Gose.

            Night manimal, I think they’ll still have plenty of resources to get pitching. Lots of FA starters, lots still in the system to make a deal.

      • Hey now, I didn’t mean to say that Snider’s worthless to other teams. Of course he has huge upside, he’s young, powerful, and by all accounts MLB-ready.

        But we’re also talking about Justin Upton here, a guy the same age as Snider, except one of them is a 2-time All Star, Silver Slugger, and MVP candidate, and one of them had a .269 OBP in his most recent MLB stint coupled with strong steak-grilling upside.

        One’s a diamond in the rough, the other’s already a huge, shiny diamond sitting in a display case.

        • Right, but you said “there are 29 other teams in baseball who see him as an occasionally-injured triple-A chubby corner outfielder with a wildly inconsistent bat.” There’s very good reason to believe that’s not true.

          • Let’s face it…It could “still” be true. Except for a couple of weeks here, and a couple of weeks there, Snider has either been injured or swinging wildly at pitches in the dirt. He could still end up as a 4th outfielder at this point.

            • Sure, but that just doesn’t look like his ceiling in the way that it does for players like Davis or Thames. The guy needs some consistent ABs for an extended period of time.

          • Arizona’s strength in their farm system is pitching. BY FAR. out of their top 10 prospects as ranked by John Sickles, 7 of them are pitchers, 2 are OF and one is a corner infielder. of the 2 OF, one is considered a 4th OF cieling, if they’re moving an OF, they need someone to play OF right now, AJ Pollock is 24, played in Reno Nevada in the PCL with a 796 OPS and 1 HR in 56 games.. not exactly setting the world on fire. Its either going to be Parra, or they need to acquire another OF’er. This is why Snider makes some sense, he is at least ready to play right now while AJ Pollock works on his game in the minors. Arizona is not “loaded” with OF prospects, they have one solid one. Toronto is loaded with OF prospects.

      • Good point on the OF depth.

        I suppose we’ll see if anything comes to be on this.

        I’d be for it. Can’t have enough talent, regardless of the position.

  20. Rasmus, upton and lawrie would give them a ton of speed at the top of the lineup.

  21. That could be a pretty interesting 3 way deal if it were to involve Pittsburgh. I wonder if the Jays would do something like Hech and a Lansing arm or maybe someone like Stilson (sorry pal) for Upton who the Jays would then move to Pittsburgh for a Talion or Cole and other arms. It would get Pittsburgh the bat they need and maybe gets the Jays very high ceiling pitchers that are a year closer to being ready. Considering what the Jays potentially have in Snider and Gose in left, it wouldn’t be a huge loss for them to move Upton on to Pittsburgh. Though I admit having an outfield of Upton, Rasmus and Bautista is truly jizz worthy.

    There’s also the money to consider in an Upton trade. While relatively cheap for the talent he offer’s, it’s still a good chunk of change. Considering how desperate the Jays pitching situation is the money might be better utilized on another starter next year.

    It certainly is a very interesting scenario. It also shows you the benefits of a three-way deal where most two-way deals just don’t offer the same possibilities of pleasing all parties involved.

    • This possibility intrigues me, but maybe you’re not going far enough. How about this blockbuster:

      Arizona gives up Upton. Gets a package that includes, but not limited to, Hech, Lansing Pitcher, etc.
      Toronto picks up Upton. Doesn’t deal him away, but now has no need Gose or Snider in the short term.
      Toronto packages Gose/Snider, EE, etc for one of Pittsburgh’s elite MLB-ready pitching prospects.

      Pittsburgh gets some serious bats for their playoff run. Arizona gets a reasonable package for Upton. Toronto gets budding superstar and an A+ pitching prospect that can contribute in 2013.

      This would gut Toronto’s farm system and kill their 2012 hopes (if they existed at all), but would make Toronto a strong contender in 2013 and on.

      • I don’t think Pittsburgh would be interested in some untested prospects for one of their top arms especially in the playoff position they are in and their need for bats now.

        Taillon and Cole were 3rd (2010) and 1st (2011) overall. It would take something substantial, like Upton, for them to move those guys. Not saying either one would by themselves would get you Upton mind you. They would certainly need to package something just as worthwhile for him.

      • I know how we can get Griffey and Bonds and we barely have to give up anything!

  22. This on Upton, from Olney:

    “Why would the Diamondbacks be ready to move a talented and accomplished 24-year-old who is signed for years to come? Upton has 98 career homers already, two All-Star appearances and many strong years of production ahead of him, in theory.

    There is some concern among rivals about whether Upton has a chronic shoulder problem”

    • These comments are directly sourced to rival teams. It’s possible that these rival teams would put this (mis)information out there to lower the price for the player or discourage other teams from entering the bidding.

    • Hmmmm… thats concerning but you’d think a team run by AA would do their due diligence.

      • Like Sergio Santos? Or are you just being sarcastic..

        • Towel snap!

          I assume Santos was healthy when he was traded but you have to wonder why the White Sox gave up a young closer with an excellent contract for several years for a prospect

    • I wonder if it has more to do with his hand injury than anything else. To me hand injuries are some of the worst a hitter can sustain. I’ve seen it time and again over the years where players have a bad injury and struggle for a while afterwords.

      One of the most obvious for me and maybe other Jays fans was Lyle Overbay. After he broke his hand he was never the same player again.

      Not saying Upton won’t rebound but it could definitely be a source of his current woes. Something like is probably a bit more risky than with a situation like Rasmus, but if you’re willing to be patient it’s possible you could get yourself a bargain.


    One more piece of prospect porn regarding Gose and his play at the Futures Game.

  24. Fuck upton go after hamels or a top of the line starter. Hitting is not the problem and I rather give gose or snider a shot to prove themselves in the system then waste money on upton when pitching is the problem. Even with all our starters healthy we still have a problem

    • Realist? You realize Hamels is a free agent in the winter, yes? And will cost at least triple what Upton would? And that there are still plenty of ways to acquire pitching.

      Give us a break, please.

    • Hamels for three months over Upton for three years? Really?

  25. At what point does the Island of Misfit Toys become overpopulated?

  26. If a blockbuster like this goes through, I would bet AA somehow pulls a starting pitcher out of it as well. Even if its just an innings eater back of the rotationg guy like Joe Saunders. I could also see this being a three way trade very similar to the Rasmus deal. Gonna have to give up more than just spare parts like with Rasmus but I bet AA still doesn’t give up nearly as much as people expect he would have to in order to do this. Hechavarria is not a top prospect, Yunel is so much more valuable. Sell high.

  27. What if they 3 way trade and end up with a star pitcher with Upton going to the 3rd team?

  28. I love the idea of acquiring Upton.

    But, I wouldn’t want the Jays to give up a haul for Upton, and then feel they didn’t have the pieces to acquire starting pitching help.

    Upton is awesome, but the Jays probably have a playoff calibre offense as is. This team is so desperate for pitching.

    • Could not agree more. Why the fuck is snider not up right now. avis is the perfect bench guy

    • It’s desperate for pitching in 2012. It has the resources to fix that.

      If you have the chance for an Upton, you go get him. Period.

      • You get him period , and what then we try and outslug the opponents??
        I know, he is a great prospect to have but unless you get a consistant starter there is no point.


        no one else of caliber

        • Again, they have the resources to do both, so please, consider yours a moot point.

        • Upton a prospect? He is no prospect. He has already been a superstar in this league like uhh LAST YEAR. If he is available, go get him.

          Our pitching is a weakness but until we are ready to compete you acquire the most talent possible regardless of position.

        • Upton is the kind of core piece that great teams, not fringe contenders, are built around. If you can add him to the core of Lawrie, Rasmus, Bautista, D’Arnaud, and the up and coming pitching it not only makes you more competitive long term, but also makes a statement of intent to be a long term competitor, which is the kind of thing that free agents who want to take a title shot, or guys demanding trades (i.e. Doc) look for when making their decisions.

      • Well, if you’re right, and the Jays could still acquire a starting pitching piece or two going forward AFTER potentially trading for Upton … then I’m all fucking for it.

    • I completely understand what your saying, but don’t you think if the Jays somehow do acquire Upton other players (specifically free agents) will see Toronto as a prime contender for winning? This would also definitely give an edge over other teams in landing big free agents like, Cole Hamles, Zack Greinke, Anibal Sanchez, Shawn Marcum etc come 2013. So instead of acquiring pitching through trades, they would take to the free agent market, with the notion that players would want to play in Toronto when they look at the roster.

      • position player FAs would also be the ones more inclined to shy away from the Dome’s garbage plastic field. With all the offensive pieces in place, it would seem a very enviable destination for top flight pitchers

  29. Seriously doe? this is more than a stretch, buhhhh If this happens i will eat my laptop.

  30. I’d trade Hech/Snider/other pieces for Upton.

  31. Jays are probably not competing until 2015 at the earliest. No point in acquiring Upton. He’s basically a one year rental for the Jays.

    • 2015 if they dont start going for it by next season oppurtunity LOST. 2015 bautista will be falling apart the offence is so good now, that you need to get pitching, i am not saying this year but you have to start going for it next year or it will be a constant rebuild year after year after year

      • Rogers is selling the rebuild and profiting handsomely for it. Why stop now?

        • Rogers doesn’t have to sell the perpetual rebuilding plan. There are bloggers to do it for them for free.

      • I love how everyone think that Bautista will be falling apart in 3 years. Obviously regression will come into play but falling apart is a bit of a stretch. If Big Papi can be productive at age 36 I don’t see why Bautista can’t be.

        • Bautista probably will be competitive. But most players are going to see some regression in their later years.

          Bautista has been an MVP candidate for two years in a row. He may continue to be a very good player into his late thirties, but that level of production may not be sustainable.

          That is why there is talk of trading him. Capitalizing on his peak. “Selling high” so to speak.

        • That’s true. Some decline is expected by 2015.

          Did anyone read Bob Eliott’s piece in the Toronto Sun today?

          He said that Bautista negotiated Escobar’s contract !!!

          That was a very team friendly deal.

          I hope bautista negotiates Edwin’s contract as well.

    • A one year rental for a 24 year old OF who is signed for the next 3 1/2 years???

      Say what??

      • Why buy Upton when we are not competing for another 3 years? We have no intention of extending him. No way Rogers can afford to take on that salary.

        He is a one year rental because we are not competing for 2+ years on that contract.

    • Fucking stop this nonsense.

  32. Thanks for the post Stoeten. This kind of rosterbation has to be one of the best parts of being a fan imo.

    As for Hech himself, it certainly might be the best way for the Jays to capitalize on his value considering the need in Arizona and the fact that he’s essentially blocked here in Toronto.

    Texas finds itself in a similar situation with Profar and Andrus. Should be interesting to see who gets moved and what Texas gets back.

    • Yup! (re: Hech being blocked….as it should be)

    • from everything I’ve read and heard about the Texas situation, it’s going to be all Profar and goodbye Andrus. Jason Parks at BP thinks there’s a good chance there may be pinstripes in his future (gross)

  33. Arizona wants Hechavarria, and they’d be willing to give up Upton to get him. Fine, they can have him.

    So, if we get Upton, then an Upton-Rasmus-Bautista outfield is pretty much a given for the next few years.

    This makes any other outfield prospects expendable.

    Further, Arizona thinks it can win the NL West this year, so they’d be willing to take on rentals.

    So how’s this for a trade: Hechavarria, Gose, Snider, Davis, and Oliver, for Upton and a starting pitcher (Kennedy?).

    Arizona’s only four games back and Snider and Davis could go wild in the NL West. And once a team makes the playoffs, it’s anyone’s game to win (see Cardinals, 2011). Arizona is one of the few teams with available starting pitching (not great granted, but better than some of the crap that gets thrown out there these days)–so this trade could help Toronto this season too.

    • Again Arizona is extremely deep in the outfield. Why would they want to take on more depth there?

      • Hmm… valid point.

        Another spin to this deal could involve sending Snider/Gose/Davis to a yet-to-be-determined third party and having them send Arizona what the D-Backs want.

        The real question for me is whether this is enough talent going out to land Upton.

        • Doubt a lot of teams would be willing to take three OFs who are pretty much ready for MLB, but I think you’re on the right track. Gose + for something AZ likes for this year, plus Hechavarria, plus one of the Lansing arms and you might be able to get a conversation going with the Diamondbacks, I suspect.

          • “Gose + for something AZ likes for this year, plus Hechavarria, plus one of the Lansing arms and you might be able to get a conversation going with the Diamondbacks” – Isn’t that more than the Jays got for Halladay? One of the top 3 pitchers in baseball, vs an exceptional left fielder. Yes, Upton is much younger than Doc was at the time, but wow…that’s a lot.

        • Personally I still like the option of moving Upton for pitching help now. There’s so many variables to think about but the biggest would be adding Upton’s salary. I think trading Upton to a third party for the pitching would allow the Jays to fill one desperate need and also leave them money for extending EE and KJ. That fixes 3 needs in one fell swoop.

          If you kept Upton would the Jays have the money to sign EE or KJ and then get pitching on the free agent market?

          • No, it would be crazy to acquire Upton just to trade him. You don’t get MVP candidates on your roster every day, and you have plenty of pieces to make a deal for a starter, and by god, they should have enough money to sign EE and another starter too.

          • in what world would you extend KJ a low avg 2nd baseman who does not belong in the field

          • Realist, did you seriously just use batting average?

          • Re: immediate pitching help, I could see an Upton deal being expanded to include Joe Saunders.

            Maybe something vaguely looking like the following:

            To Arizona: Chase Headley, Hech, Arizona’s choice of any one pitcher out of the Jays farm system, a B/B- prospect from San Diego

            To Toronto: Upton, Joe Saunders, Clayton Richard

            To San Diego: Gose, Snider or some other B prospect from Toronto, a B prospect from Arizona

          • In what universe do you trade Justin Upton so that you have enough money to keep KJ and/or EE?

          • But what young controllable pitcher would be available and worth the value of Upton? I cannot think of any.

    • My goodness what a disaster proposal. Hech,Gose,Snider,Davis are all scrap pieces. Why in the hell would a contending team make a trade for those guys when only 1 of them is mlb ready, and 1 should be a 4th OF. Upton is a huge name/huge player. If ya want him ya gotta give up the core of your farm. I love it when Jays fans start any proposal with Davis/Thames etc NO ONE WANTS THEM!

      • Hech, Goes and to a lesser degree Snider are most certainly not scrap pieces…

        The original author of the piece (from Arizona so unlikely to be a Jays homer) was suggesting Hech as something of a centrepiece of the trade…

    • If you consider that Aaron Hill, Johnny Mac & Overbay are playing for Arizona, The Diamondbacks would have a lot of Ex Jays.

  34. One of the things that gets me tingly in my man regions is that this is one huge step forward in AA’s vision of having all star calibre players at every position. If the outfield breaks into Upton/Rasmus/Bats those are all star capable. Throw in B-Lawrie and EE at 1st and it seems like less of a pipe dream then when AA first told the media that this was his master plan.
    I think the players that we could send in regards to this would be Gose(not needed now), Snider(also not needed), Sanchez(have to give one of th lansing boys), and Gomez(positional flexibilty is more important in NL). This woul dstill leave us some prospects to acquire pitching help which is in desperate need!!!

    • Ya! +TDA projects as an AS at catcher. Find a 2B (re: not a negative view on Johnson, just a FA this year) and a 1B/DH (assuming EE is re-signed for one of these). Escobar looks very solid in the nine hole. That’s some line up. Done. Now for some pitching…..

    • Only issue there is that AZ wouldn’t want Snider and Gose, but someone else might.

      Ahhh, these flights of fancy are fun, huh?

  35. What does Arizona want? 3B, SS and high-ceiling pitching. What do the jays have? SS, OF and high-ceiling pitching. Put together a package for Chase Headly with your OF prospect depth. Flip Chase along with Hechavarria and high-ceiling pitching for Upton. What is this non-sense about going for need over want? What high-end, controllable, young pitchers are available? Zero that we at least know of. You have to go for what is available. If they can get Upton along with a couple innings eater pitchers at the dead line, they not only have a great shot this year, but will still have a strong farm system to help them in the future. I really don’t think Travis Snider is going anywhere. He’s almost the exact type of player AA would covet if he were with another team. They’re going to give it everything they can to fix him.

  36. Sell the farm for Upton! We can’t have 8 starting pitchers anyway, so why not trade a few of them. I can see this being another three team trade with a third team coming in to scoop up Gose or Marisnick.

  37. Guys, c’mon. All this silly talk when there are serious, important, pressing matters to discuss. Dire questions that need deep thought and debate.

    Who is going to be the Leafs’ goalie next year?!?!?!

    *barfs on every newspaper on the newsstand*

  38. Help me out fella’s I’m still not seeing this picture clearly.. We have the following
    - Our second baseman will be gone by September at the latest
    - Escobar with a shelf life that may colide with the BJ’s WS hopes
    - a number of OF prospects that project to major leaguers that can successfully fill the LF role
    - if you trade Hetch, we have then surenndered the succession plan at short.

    The teams priorities aren’t met by getting Upton, we create more problems than we solve

    • Well part of the reason for creating depth at certain positions is that it allows you to move someone without necessarily weakening your team.

      I’d be willing to bet eventually one of Gose/Rasmus, Darnaud/JPA, Escobar/Hech will all be dealt.

    • Also – Escobar is still young, don’t see the problem there., and you can always try to resign KJ.

      • Based on how AA reacted to KJ finally signing a 1 year contract, by saying maybe he (KJ) would play LF, I don’t think either side wants another year. And EE will have lost a step by 2016 for our WS drive.

        • * meant Escobar, fuck

        • “And EE will have lost a step by 2016 for our WS drive.”

          They could easily take a good shot at the playoffs next year with a pitching addition or two. Shit, they’re only 2.5 out now with no pitching basically at all.

          Look at St Louis last year. Lots of flaws.

          So, obviously, try to build your team like Texas or TBay where you’re elite for a long time, but there’s no reason to assume this team is that far away from at LEAST winning in the high 80s and getting into the WCs.

          • Sorry but I’m talking about a team built to win the Series, not one making the playoffs…the design is a lot different. Agreed on Texas, not T Bay (they will never win cause they are always just short on talent).
            Now with the extra wildcard its little wonder our President is yakking the BJ’s will make the playoffs, but he didn’t talk about winning.

    • The jays getting Justin Upton does not cause problems.

    • Ummm… Escobar is not even 30 yet.
      Justin Upton does not cause any p[roblems, he fills a position firmly for 6-7 years. He also frees our outfield prospects to make other trades.

  39. Highlight of my day so far was reading through the comments section on the Upton thread on MLBTR. Someone actually wrote, in reference to the Jays acquiring Upton, that “AA might have to bite the bullet and move Rajai Davis”.

    Amazing. Just utterly amazing.

    • Not that I agree with it, but Rajai gets a shitty rap in Toronto. He is a solid contributor, a terror on the basepaths and not a terrible defender. I think a lot of teams would be high on him.

      • He is a patently terrible defender and his numbers are disgusting for a starting LF…

        He also makes far, far more than his share of mistakes on the basepaths.

        He’s a fine 4th OF, but used in any other fashion he’s a train wreck.

    • I’m not sure how you could have read that as anything other than sarcasm.

  40. I’m thinking a third team would have to be involved to give the Diamondbacks some pitching. Sure Hech could be a start, albeit a very weak start. But the Jays would probably want to (or make that have to) move Snider and/or Gose, along with of course other pieces.

    But the Diamondbacks have three starting outfielders with Kubel, Para, and Young. I don’t think they would want another OF’er for the last push to try to make the playoffs. Albeit, I’d take Snider right now over Kubel and Para, and in a few years over Young too (who has shit the bed since returning from his injury). But I’m thinking this would have to be like the Rasmus deal last year. Get a third team in to take a prospect like Gose and/or Snider for some pitching or 3rd base help or whatever, then move them to Arizona.

    Might be a challenge, but I believe in AA.

  41. This is the first scenario I’ve seen where Bautista at 1B in the near future makes sense. Especially if Gose is retained and his bat improves.

    3- Bautista

    That looks like the potential of one helluva lineup. Now the team just needs a pitching rotation that isn’t paying homage to Tommy John.

    • tha fuck? Seriously, you have D’Arnaud batting lead off? And Upton batting 7th? And Encarnaion 9th? Am I missing something or is this not in order at all. And you have four OF… and no 1B/DH. Also this line-up is very RHB heavy.

  42. I don’t see Toronto and Arizona matching up too well outside Hech.

    But AA could probably get a 3rd baseman and/or a starter that Arizona wants for a combo of Davis, some relief pitchers (Oliver), Snider, Gose, JPA, etc.

  43. There was talk of Arizona moving Upton to the infield earlier this season. Would the Jays at all be interested in potentially moving him to the infield for next season as someone who could fill the hole at 2b?

    Upton is a big guy, and I don’t really see him enough to know how he would play in the infield, but he is still smaller than Yunel Escobar.

    But knowing the Jays, and knowing what makes the most sense, they would probably prefer to just leave him as is…

  44. I know that the chances of this actually happening are very small … but Holy Fuck just the thought of it makes me excited!

  45. I do not really understand why Arizona would float the idea of trading Upton. Upton helped power them to the playoffs last year, and they could make it back their again soon if he remains on the team and gets back on track. Hell, the D’Backs are only 4 games out of the division lead and it’s not like the Giants and Dodgers don’t have their share of problems.

    That said, it would be pretty cool having Upton in the outfield, maybe stick him in left and end that annoying Snider debate once and for all.

    P.S. Anyone else see Bautista’s picture in the ESPN Body Issue?

  46. I was just looking at Upton’s Fangraphs page. I’ll preface this by saying that I think the Jays should go all out to get him, notwithstanding that…

    His BB% is level with last year, K% down and BABIP up, yet he’s still having a down year, mainly because the bottom’s fallen out of his power (.128 ISO this year). I wonder if there really is something to the idea that he’s hurt, because everything else points to him having as good or better season as last aside from ISO and, you know, actual performance.

  47. What about Arencebia and Hecheverria? Then we use Mathis and Gomes at Catcher.

    Isn’t Arizona eyeing Arencebia?

  48. Looks like Upton is the new Darvish/Fielder. Someone the fans know would help the team, but in the end will go to a winning team.

    • 3rd place in the AL Central = Winning?

      I think you are confusing money with winning.

    • You are a fucking idiot. Trades are not free agent signings, Upton doesn’t get to choose where to go or sign for 9 years at 200M+ (Fielder), nor would the Jays be bidding in a blind auction for the mere right to negotiate with him (Darvish). But you maybe knew this shit but made your dumb comment anyway because ROGERS ARE CHEAP FUCKS, AMIRITE?

    • Um, you know we’re not talking about a free agent here.

      Really, wtf are you on about?

      • Yea, I’m the idiot. the one that said since last season that we needed a 1st baseman and at least two starting pitchers. the one that said we’d finish at 75 – 80 wins when all the apologists were predicting 90 wins.

        Upton is the latest that the fans will be upset when he doesn’t come here. Until Rogers starts wanting to win rather than wanting to optimize ROI, disappointment and 0.500 record will continue.

        • Right. Rogers should pick up Upton, put him in their shopping cart, and head straight to the nearest checkout.

          It takes two to tango, dude. Getting Upton here requires Arizona to be amenable to what the Jays have to offer.

        • how is operating a stadium at 60% capacity maximizing their ROI, when an average consumer spend of $60/game would see revenue jump (based on an increase of 15,000 fans/game) would result in an increase in revenue of approximately 70 million dollars, with most of the overhead already covered by the current attendance. Add in the value add to their television properties of showing not just a winning team, but competitive baseball in September, as an incentive towards higher add revenues, the increase in brand loyalty for their complementary products via cross promotion due to the higher profile of a winning team (McCain-Catch the Taste anyone?) and the increased subscriptions to their mobile and web Blue Jays content caused dby growing fan interest, and you are talking about a profit maximization in the millions if a competitive team were being fielded.

          This is not the fucking Leafs you goddamn troll, where owner apathy has nothing to do with revenue growth as fans will turn up and tune in no matter what the onfield product is. The Jays business model has a high ceiling that, much like a Lansing pitcher, needs to be developed incrementally. Buying superstars and hoping they fill seats (or win titles-Barry Bonds) rarely works out. The research shows that sustained success is the only way to build a fan base.

          So Fuck Right Off

          • If you for even a second believe that Rogers doesn’t optimize ROI on everything they own, you’re delusional.

            You’re so far from reality I’m amazed you can actually type.

  49. Should the Jays trade for Justin Upton, or for Kate Upton?

  50. The reason this deal hasn’t been made yet………

    The crafty AA is trying to duplicate the Rasmus deal……Package some crap to get a piece the other team wants and then add some decent stuff to get the player….

    Clearly – Hech, one of Gose or Marisnick, one of the big 3 Lansing pitchers and a lower prospect gets the deal done…..

    • I don’t think there was anything decent included at any level of the Rasmus deal. Frasor may have seriously been the best player moved by the Jays

      • Isn’t that in hindsight? Stewart was pegged as a mid rotation starter and was MLB ready- Not a ton of upside, but 6 years of control.

        Of course, he tanked, so the point is moot.

    • just very very relieved ur not AA…why not package 3 big lansing pitchers lol

  51. Totally jumping the gun here, but if this deal gets done, do you think it would be possible AA pulls another move to get a pitcher as well? It seems like by getting Upton, you have everything you need in this team except pitching. It would be a position where you have to go for it. Nothing blockbusterish, but even trading Snider and/or Davis and some B-C prospects for a No. 3 pitcher or something. Morrow is coming back soon, Drabek was pretty mediocre in his showing this season, and although Hutch showed promise he wasn’t lights out either. Laffey’s done a good job to take Drabek’s spot, which leaves one spot open for this season, with charlie V going back to the bullpen.

  52. I got to say, IF the jays acquire upton he should go to LF and davis to the bench. Makes no sense to put bautista at 1b now and lose a great arm in the outfield. Lind (sigh) and encarnacion can split time at 1b.

  53. If the jays can swing a deal for upton they should have 5 very good hitters, 2 so-so (escobar and johnson) and just two shitbags (Lind and Arencibia) who can hit the occasional HR. Thats a very strong offense.

  54. I could see Arizona potentially being interested in EE as a rental in that division, although less so now that Goldschmidt is hitting. If you can package in someone in a walk year or with a club option left that provides more value to a team in a playoff race, it might make this type of deal a little bit easier on the farm system. That probably depends on how well the next 2-3 weeks go for the D-Backs, though.

  55. Is there ANY way Towers is dumb enough to believe EE can play third? Hech, EE and a pitcher. Do it AA.

  56. Seriously though, is anyone concerned about Upton’s home/road splits? I’m talking career splits. Pretty stark.

  57. If AA is going to pull off the trade necessary to get Upton it going to use up most of his top-line ammo. He can do this size of a deal once; but it may not have enough to go big again. If AA is going to go BIG on a trade, why not go for Lincecum?

    • Mark my words, there is a 50% chance Lincecum’s arm will detach from his body by this time next year, bump that up to 95% if the Jays trade for him.

    • Chuckle.
      Oh you were serious?
      Well, I’d say that in terms of “ammo”, AA has a belt fed prospect machine gun with a solid supply train behind him compared to most GMs’ six shooters.
      And why not go for Lincecum? Didn’t we just lose all of the pitchers to either injuries and/or pitching arm shittiness? Seriously, I think that James Andrews is going to rename his Tommy John wing the Blue Jays Honorary Mid Season Rest Home in honour of his biggest donors. And Lincecum seems to be experiencing either one or both of the injury or arm shittiness bug.
      All joking aside, it’s pretty fucking frightening (and borderline irresponsible) when a pitcher comes out and says he’s stopped throwing his slider to protect his elbow and then undergoes a drop in velocity, and the team seems content to just keep running him out there. Reminds me of the good old Dusty in Chicago Show.

  58. Or AA could pull a rabbit out and get Upton for a very undervalued price; speculating on these packages are dumb, just sit back and enjoy whatever trade comes our way (as long as it’s not shitty)

  59. I can’t believe how stupid people on this blog are. Upton is exactly the player alex DOESN’T WANT. Paying him 14 mil when EE is not even resigned? And what money is left for pitching? Maybe poeple have forgotten that the jays already had a 1st round player having an off season at age 28 who was making 10 mil and they gave him away for NOTHING. Now alex is supposed to do the exact opposite of that and take an albatross contract back? Get real

    • If you only believe things from your perspective then moving him on to a third team like Pittsburgh is ideal. AA seems to be the master of these three-ways. As I said above, it certainly gives the teams more chances to satisfy their needs than a simple two-way deal.

    • albatross contract? 36M over 3 years for a 24 year old all star calibre, athletic player? give yer head a shake

    • someone’s sensible here
      thank you

      gose + jenkins max if we are going to take on the contract fully
      yunel + gose if arizona wants to cover some of the contract

      if AA makes this trade, bye bye encarnacion

    • Do you know what the phrase “albatross contract” means?

    • Rios was never an MVP candidate. And at the time, giving away Rios for nothing was blasted and one of the (many) reasons Ricciardi got fired.

      • wrong, rogers accountants threw a party to get rid of that contract

        • Oh you want proof huh?

          Sadly I can’t post more than one link before this thing gets flagged for spam, so you’ll just have to settle for one. Plenty more is available on the internet.

          “Ricciardi called Rios “a good player who’s not having a good year” and said he would not be surprised if Rios played on future All-Star teams. Since Ricciardi thinks Rios, 28, can be an All-Star again, why did he let him go?”

          At any rate, I don’t think the contract’s a huge issue, since we all know Anthopoulous has the ability to raise the payroll by at least $10 million and then some, and is simply saving money for when the team is actually ready to compete.

          As for posting this year’s stats and completely ignoring past performance, I suppose you were one of the people who hated the Rasmus trade then?

          • you just proved my point. They let rios go not because of his talent but to just get rid of that contract. and I guess you didn’t hear about alex’s payroll parameters?

          • How does that prove your point?

            Ricciardi gave away what he felt was a future all-star, for FREE. All all-stars have positive trade value, so long as they’re not paid $25-30 million a year like A-Rod. That’s why he got fired–because he started throwing away positive trade value without any good reason. That’s why the NYT article writer blasted him, as did everyone else. He could easily have gotten a prospect for Rios if he didn’t wait until August to get rid of him, when he could only negotiate with the White Sox.

            And on that note, that’s why Rios’ contract was not an albatross contract. When people want your player and don’t care about the money, it’s not an albatross.

            The Blue Jays have money to spend and chose not to spend it this offseason. They have the money to resign EE and pay Upton if they wanted to.

            AA could have paid Fielder if he wanted to. He made a bid on Darvish and was fully prepared to pay that $18 million out, plus contract costs–you don’t bid if you don’t have the money. He gets other GMs to throw an extra prospect into a trade because he throws money at them. This is not the behaviour of a GM who is at the upper limit of the money he is allowed to spend.

            So far AA has not spent the money because he CHOSE not to. Not because he was ordered not to–because he felt the money would be better spent elsewhere. Justin Upton’s “contract” is about 7th on the list of considerations about whether to get him or not, well behind things like the cost in prospects, the health of his shoulder, his character makeup, and so on.

            Don’t extrapolate what Ricciardi did onto Anthopoulous.

          • One more point.

            Ricciardi was running a payroll of $97 million dollars.

            AA is currently running a payroll of $75 million dollars.

            How is it that anyone can believe that we are hard up against our spending limit, or even anywhere near the vicinity of that spending limit? How?

    • I also don’t see Rogers willing to take on that contract.

      All the trades that AA has made in the past have been for players making significantly less.

  60. How many more years of control for upton

  61. Here’s a short video of an AB of Hechavarria’s that I took at Saturday’s game.

  62. Proof that these things do happen: Links discussing Rasmus to Toronto before June 30th, 2011.

  63. Sam Dyson should be able to get this done. I hear he has the best stuff in the orgnization

  64. Here’s a fun fact I just learned via Cot’s. Upton is owed less next year than Alex Rios.

  65. The way I view this team and what it will take to win isn’t shared by others and thats cool. I don’t see Hetch as a trading chip, but a future, timely piece to a WS victory. Trading chips at this time are KJ, EE and prospects that aren’t core to the plan but have value to another Snider, Rasmus or Goeds (like you said earlier James). I know most of the current roster will be gone by the time we are ready to win. I just think there will be another great LF’er available, before there is another middle infielder available. We have a big problem at 2nd and we have to fix it now. Hopefully with a piece that plays into the WS win. Be prepared to lose somebody important

    • The problem is that, as of right now, Hech can’t hit, and if a defensive wiz who can’t hit is worth having in your lineup, why wasn’t Johnny Mac a starter?

      Also don’t forget that Hech only has one more option, and the closer we get to 2014 the less value Hech has as he will not be able to get any more reps in the minors.

  66. I think you could probably throw 10 names in a hat, pull out 3 or 4 and offer it to Arizona, but I’d also argue that we really shouldn’t under-estimate the ability of GM’s to be really dumb and to over-value certain things more than we assume any rational person would. Just think of how a career year based on a small sample size was dealt for Escobar. Not to say that Escobar is of Upton’s calibre, but how often do we hear “small sample size” repeated over and over as a reason why teams won’t be interested in certain players, only for this type of deal to happen?

    That’s also not to say that we should expect Arizona to accept something like Cooper, McDade and Lind for Upton. I just wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some value in a few players that we would assume have little value.

  67. Arizona is still kinda in the mix in their division, so that may play a part as to what they’d want in return.

    Rajai Davis/Travis Snider, Syndergaard, Hechevarria, Marisnick and any non-injured reliever that has an ERA under 7.00 may be enough, but it’d probably take more.

    Trade for this guy, sign Greinke or Hamels to their $400MM contract and we’re talking playoffs babay!!!

  68. i am just trying to figure out how upton is worth more than 3 B+ prospects, when especially the guy is in a slump a lot of fans here seem to be gaga over upton when first of all, he costs +10M per year, nearing what bautista is being paid for.

    he hit 7 HR so far, 1/2 of what he hit last yr

    i am just going to assume that a lot of folks here dont follow up with minor league farm systems. That kind of 3 B+ package (syndergaard, gose, and marisnick) should be for someone like Hamels or Greinke after a sign and trade for a minimum of 5-6 years.
    I wouldnt mind parting with Gose or marisnick, but if we mortgage our pitching system now for a declining outfielder (mind you, we are stacked in position players), i am going to start puking.

    plus, rajai is doing just fine at the moment.

    • Post this 6 months ago and Stoeten would be all over you and calling you a retard. Take this blog as it is. Trolling for page view trolls…nothing more.

      • and why would he call me a retard? i obviously know what i am talking about

        • Upton is that valuable because he’s 24 – 25 next month – has already posted 2 great seasons, is a 5-tool player, is under team control for 3 more seasons (or something like that), and is still 3 seasons away from his prime.

          Let me guess, you were pissed because the Jays traded Rzepczynski and Jackson for an underperforming Rasmus, right?

        • A post in which you slam upton and ball wash Davis says otherwise

        • Thats what he does

        • Well, apart from where you call a 24-year-old “declining,” Kevin.

          But it’s a fair enough comment, though I completely disagree. So no, there’d be no name calling, except maybe in the direction of the one guy here who obviously doesn’t value his commenting privileges.

    • You’re talking about a guy who has 98 homeruns in his short career, is 3 years controllable, a tools machine, and profiles much better than any player we have anywhere in the system you claim to follow so assiduously as a corner outfielder. The fact that you can accept Rajai as a starting outfielder as anything more than a stopgap piece of trade bate speaks to your skills as a talent evaluator. A two time All Star in his age 24 Season is worth a whole damn lot, and never comes on the the market. If there is a chance to pick this one up, it should happen.
      Also, how many pitching prospects constitutes a mortgage for you? 2? 3? 4?
      Within this year’s BP top 20 in the system (of which you are the proclaimed expert) there are 10 Pitchers, which not only barely scratches the surface of the Jays depth, but also doesn’t include the 2012 draftees, which was another high end class.

      To quote the BP guys: “That’s a really good system” “That’s a crazy system. A Bob Seager system.” “As Good a collection of of young pitching as you’ll find anywhere in baseball.” “Their 20th guy is still a 3 star guy.” “They have 8 million teenage pitchers with crazy high ceilings” “The best (system) in baseball… who’s gonna compete with that?”

  69. I think that Upton if picked up would likely required a few minor deals to get he pieces in place. I’m thinking Davis, JPA and/or bullpen arms to get some combo of current and other prospects/players to make it happen. It’s likely bullshit anyway but it’s fun to dream.

    • i agree that arizona wont deal upton just like that
      but t the same time, the jays should not make the deal to “mortgage the future” if we have to give up too much
      something that AA has been talking about for quite some time

      • I’m pretty sure if the Jays traded for Upton, their farm system would still be in the top 10. Consider Gose untouchable and the rest they can pick and choose. I believe they locked up Montero, so they wouldn’t be looking for a catcher, i.e. d’Arnaud.

        • No….the Farm would be middle of the pack after any trade for Upton

        • Gose should in no way be untouchable.

          And no, the farm wouldn’t necessarily be middle of the pack. It would be very, very good still. You’re not likely going to give up more than one of the Lansing arms, you’re not giving up more than one of Gose or Marisnick, if either, not d’Arnaud at all, not any of the new draftees, not Dan Norris, and not a whole lot of other arms either. There is enough talent in the system that it wouldn’t take as giant a hit as you suggest.

          • Well I don’t think Gose should be, but I think we all get the vibe that he is after all the effort it took for Anthopoulos to acquire him.


            If the Jays keep d’Arnaud, which they will in the hypothetical event that the Jays do acquire Upton, yes, I’d say they would still be in the top 10, but in the 7-10 range. Even if it went to middle-of-the-pack, it’s still nowhere near mortgaging the future as Kevin claims.

            Remember too that the Jays probably had one of the top 3 best drafts this year.

          • We thought Alex had a big thing for Brett Wallace, too, don’t forget.

          • I thought about it, then decided to go against comparing the two instances due to Gose playing a primary position, and plays it a hell of a lot better than what the public knowledge was to Wallace’s grasp on any defensive position.

            But it’s still a fair point to consider.

        • Gose and Hech are probably the first two out.

          Assuming Rasmus doesn’t shit the bed, and Escobar comes back to life a tad offensively — we’re set in terms of CF/SS.

  70. ive got a raging boner for an upton trade. i am pissing standing on my head all day.make the trade before i have to see a doc.and still need pitchers badly….anything that will last til october

  71. is it me missing something or all of the jays going to be contract expired at the same time? how do you sign a whole team in 3 years.arent you supposed to stagger contracts

  72. Well there is one thing to keep in mind:

    Any deal AA has ever done, since the Halladay deal, was completely ninja.

    This Upton charade is most clearly not ninja.

    Now granted most of the Upton-to-Jays rumours so far are “the Jays have the pieces, this could make sense” as opposed to “the Jays were talking to Towers about a potential Upton deal,” so in that sense it would be a little unexpected if the Jays managed to land him; and for that reason I maintain a little hope that the Jays will get him.

    But to me this whole shebang is Towers screaming “I need two bidders to get into a bidding war so I come out rich!” Very un-Anthopoulous-like trade discussions.

    The possibility exists that the reason Towers is waving and screaming like this is because no one is offering him more than three B prospects for Upton, that ownership has ordered him to dump Upton by the deadline, and that Towers is desperately trying to avoid getting 40 cents on the dollar and have the repercussions tarnish his standing among the fans/ownership/baseball. If that’s the case, it would be quite possible for AA to ninja Upton away with the best lowball offer.

    Why would Towers be getting lowballed? Maybe some teams take the slump seriously. Maybe some teams are concerned about makeup after clashes with ownership. Or here’s my favourite, maybe some teams are tired of Justin Upton trade rumours that have been floating around for the better part of two years and have stopped believing that he’s available.

    • AA ends up getting these players because other teams don’t even realize they are available. Now that everyone knows Upton is available, I doubt AA lands him because other teams are going to go for a massive overpay — something he is not willing to do.

  73. the word is “value”. if AA can’t get value through the deal, he’ll pass. he seems to be stubborn in setting a value and sticking to it. Yu Darvish was valued at $17M…wait what?

    • Exactly. The problem is, with word that Upton is on the market, a “bidding” war may ensue. I sincerely doubt AA gets caught up in that.

      • except how many organizations have the depth without dipping into the starting lineup? half dozen?

        • Uhhhh… look at the teams interested.

          Pirates have Cole, Taillon.

          Rangers? Olt, Profar.

          Tigers? Castellanos, Turner.

          Starting with any of those players, plus maybe a few throw-ins will land you Justin Upton. Even if they need to get involved in some sort of 3-way deal with another team.

          • I think that you would need to be offering at least one of those A level prospects, maybe 2, plus a couple Bs and a C or two. He’s not going to come cheap. And you also have to consider team need: young high end pitching is something that the Zona system has more of than any team other than maybe Toronto, and theirs is mostly in the high minors or major league ready whereas ours is just starting to percolate upwards from A ball. Their needs are in the left side of the infield, making Texas a theoretically good fit (if they want to give up Profar). Or the Jays. The more I look at it the less I think that this deal gets done without a third party being involved. I just don’t see any team having the depth to provide the positional balance to fill Arizona’s needs on its own.

  74. Looking at position players, the biggest area of need for the Jays is going to be 2nd base. KJ got off to a hot start, and maybe he’s still nursing his hamstring injury, but he’s been absolutely terrible for a while now. He strikes out way too frequently, and doesn’t seem to be the sharpest in the field. Plus the kid is 30. He’s been so bad that you can’t make him a qualifying offer at the end of the year because he’ll surely accept it. He took a one year deal with the Jays to re-establish his value, but he hasn’t been able to do that. Jays may be able to capitalize on this one and get another one year deal out of him (with an option perhaps?) if they don’t trade him at the deadline.

    I’m going to go ahead and assume that they probably extend EE. They’ll end up adding some sort of FA DH, or end up with a platoon of Yan Gomes/Adam Lind if not. You gotta think they give Snider a shot at LF with 500+ PAs next year.

    I’m going to predict that the “blockbuster” trade we see this year (either at the deadline, or in the offseason) will be a three-way deal which will land the Jays’ Jose Altuve, but end up shipping out Hech/Gose. Young, controllable guy that the Astros have hinted could be available for the right package. Even though Altuve is only 22, the Astros are nowhere near competing, and could net themselves a pretty sweet package for the youngster.

    Pitching is great and all, but you just get more overall value out of a position player. A player that plays every fucking day. That is not to downplay the fact that the Jays need pitching — because the Jays need pitching. I just don’t see them putting together these huge packages for a player like Garza. A deal more like the one that was composed for Michael Pineda seems more AA’s style.

    Even if this team had Verlander this year, they wouldn’t be competing. A pitcher only takes that ball once every 5 days, and constitute a huge injury risk. I would implore AA not to grossly overpay for a pitcher. Dabbling in FA for a couple of the available #3-5 starters would still make us a competing team next year.

    • While I like your creative idea about getting Altuve, I’m a little worried that he rates poorly at second base defensively. Still, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was that kind of deal AA ends up making instead of the Upton one, especially if it costs much less.

    • So you are trading Cecil, gose , hech and Johnson for wandy and altuves

  75. “As far as Travis Snider goes, you do realize he has had a grand total of 232 PA at the major league level? Not once was he given over 100PAs in a single season.”

    This isn’t accurate. Snider had 276 PApps in 2009, 319 in 2010, and 202 last season, and has had a grand total of 877 PApps in the major leagues. You’re thinking of games played.

  76. Well one thing we have going for us in a trade with The D’backs is our trade last year with them certainly helped them and their GM wont be hesitant to deal with AA again.

    • Very good point. I think some GM’s would be reluctant to deal with AA because he has been successful with trades in the past.

      However, he made a fair deal with the diamondbacks. Hill is doing very well in arizona.

      It may help the Jays get a deal done for Upton.


  78. Jesus et al,

    We missed out on Darvish and Gio this off-season. I think we put package of position players together to get Upton. Mind you, it would be nice if we could keep all of the Lugnut kids. We need to be patient with Minor League pitching. San Fran did not lose their cool (Beltran trade excluded) and their set for a few years. Seattle has been patient through a few terrible offensive years and look to be loaded with young studs. They’ll be set up. We need to be patient and see how it goes. Only have two pitchers on staff that will survive till 2015.




  79. I read this article, and some of the comments and shrugged it off for a while.
    Then I started to think of the Blue Jays potential outfield after a trade for Upton, then uggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh… went from 6 to midnight, real fast
    Bautista, Rasmus, Uptuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggnnnnnn!
    rosterbating, duh

  80. Here’s my thought. Lind, Coco, Buck and Tabby for ALL of the Uptons: Justin, BJ and Kate. But only if Kate is under Team Control for at least three years. Otherwise it’s not worth doing.

  81. need an upton trade soon to stop the rage in my pants. may have to go see the vagina monologues to reference how to get my smenckle to tell stories and get paid

  82. The Jays should go for it. Let AA work some of his magic and see where it goes. I like the idea of Upton in LF, although there goes Snider’s chances of starting (more than likely). And can any of you guys actually blame AA for wanting to take a bite at this?

    Yes starting pitcher is the CURRENT issue, but pitching as a whole (starting and bullpen) as been a problem for the season, save for, IMO, Morrow and Jansenn.

    And it’s not like we haven’t had a problem in LF since the start of season either. Now I don’t blame AA for wanting to try Thames out in LF at the start of the season given Snider’s performance the past couple seasons and how’s he been handled, but that took a sour turn. And not to discredit Davis, but I think most of can agree that he’s not the answer to LF, although he could still be a great 4th OF.

    So why don’t we take a chance at Upton? Offer Hech, a Lansing arm, maybe Gose/Snider, and something else if AZ doesn’t think it’s enough. I doubt JPA gets put into the deal given D’Arnaud’s injury, and no disrespect to Mathis, but I don’t see him as an everyday catcher. JPA is solid behind the plate, he just seems to have some Romero syndrome with his bat.

  83. Best option. We trade EE for some prospects. flip them with one or two of our own for upton

  84. If you COULD get Upton… would you flip him for King Felix?

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