Travis Snider had a huge game for Las Vegas last night, going 4-for-5 with a double and two home runs, and intensifying the calls for him to be promoted, and questions about why it was Anthony Gose and not he who got the call in the wake of Jose Bautista’s injury.

Our old friend the Tao of Stieb is leading the charge in this regard, absolutely losing his mind over the relationship between player and club, which he calls “a step short of abusive and a step beyond insulting.” Gose’s apparent leapfrogging of Snider on the depth chart was, for him, the final straw in a long line of abuses that has, in the past two years, seen the Jays decide “that Rajai Davis, Eric Thames, Ben Francisco, Corey Patterson, Juan Rivera, Dewayne Wise, Adam Loewen and Mike McCoy were all better options than Travis Snider,” which would sound pretty damning if it were entirely true, or if the situation weren’t a little more complicated than that.

Loewen didn’t suit up for the Jays until September of last year, after Snider had been shut down with wrist tendinitis, for example. Rivera and Snider were both in the lineup most of April of last year, and Snider was hurt for the majority of the time while Rivera was playing the outfield from mid-June until he was dealt to Los Angeles in early July, meaning that Rivera was only technically ahead of him on the left field depth chart for about ten games. McCoy played alongside Snider in the outfield at the start of last year, after Rajai Davis went down Opening Day, and again only for a few games in mid-August before Snider, then in the minors, was shut down. Dewayne Wise also only patrolled the Jays’ outfield after Snider was finished, in late August and for much of September. And this year you can’t really say that Ben Francisco has had a starting gig at all.

But sure, the overall point stands that the Jays have put some terrible players ahead of Snider.

Eric Thames’ 2011 was on par with Snider’s 2010, except that Snider actually provided defensive value and was perceived as having a far higher offensive upside. This year Rajai Davis has sunk into fucking oblivion, posting worse numbers in terms of on-base, OPS, wOBA and wRC+ than even the meagre numbers Snider has posted during his unsuccessful and intermittent big league stints. And Anthony Gose, while extremely talented, is very young, and very green at the plate.

Absent of context, it’s hard to see a reason for Snider to have ever ceded playing time to any of these guys (unless you’re one of those poor souls who asininely believes Snider has already demonstrated more than enough that he can’t succeed at the big league level). But context here is kind of the whole story.

Snider Starts Behind Thames…

In handing the Opening Day job to Eric Thames, the Jays went with the less talented player and a far inferior defender, but seemed to be insulating themselves from a bad situation down the road, and keeping the interests of Snider and his development at the fore.

It may sound counterintuitive, but the belief here has been that the Jays wanted stability for Snider– who had played 20 or more games at multiple levels in each year since he spent all of 2007 at Low-A Lansing– and to keep him out of an endless cycle of promotion, failure, and demotion. In my view, as a team with at least nominal pretensions of being in a playoff race, the Jays would have faced internal pressure to replace Snider in the lineup, had he struggled in the early part of the season– as they did with Thames.

Yes, it’s debatable whether another mid-season demotion would have been such a setback, but taking this approach had the added benefit of letting Snider continue to work out of the spotlight on the mechanical changes he made over the winter, and setting him up to smoothly take over for a struggling Thames, rather than having to press at the big league level as he constantly looked over his shoulder.

Viewed that way, it can be argued that the Jays chose the better environment for Snider to work in– one which set him up better for success down the road– while at the same time rewarding Thames and giving him the opportunity to show that the positives they saw in his bat in 2011 were no joke.

Thames is Replaced by Davis…

When Eric Thames was finally demoted on May 28th there were two main reasons why Snider wasn’t called upon to step into his spot. For one, Rajai Davis was in the midst of a spectacular month. In 17 May games Davis had put up a wOBA of .415 and a 166 wRC+, and his 2009 season with Oakland told us that, while it would be crazy to expect him to keep on producing like that, he was capable of playing a whole lot better than we’ve grown accustomed to during his time in Toronto.

The other reason is that Snider was hurt. He wouldn’t come off the DL in Vegas until June 9th, and after that the power stroke that had seen him amass 14 extra base hits before April 23rd eluded him. Meanwhile, Davis continued to produce at a league average rate, all the way to the end of June, when he still sported a .280/.331/.433/.765 line.

So, as frustrating as it may be to see Davis ahead of Snider, it’s really only been in the last 15 games that he’s truly turned back into a pumpkin, with a .140/.200/.220/.420 line. Add in that the Jays seem to give just a little bit more rope to players (y’know, not named Travis Snider) than fans are generally willing to tolerate, that it may be hard to sell Davis as a (minor) trade piece as you’re completely give up on him yourself, and that Snider hasn’t exactly been lighting Vegas on fire either, and maybe we see why they hadn’t yet made a move. Until…

Bautista Gets Hurt, Gose Gets Called Up

Yes, the call-up of Anthony Gose instead of Snider, and the decision to start his service clock and expose him to Major League pitching he’s probably not ready for is an interesting one, but there are plausible reasons here, too.

I wrote last week that Snider, at the time of the announcement, had just one extra-base hit and a .781 OPS over his previous 10 games, compared to Gose’s three and .927. There’s also the fact that Alex Anthopoulos has stated that he wants Travis Snider to be up for good the next time that he gets the call, and as a temporary fill-in for Bautista, that’s not the assignment here.

Anthopoulos also said on the radio last week that “You’d like to get these guys up here when they are hot.” I don’t know if that’s a confidence thing– they certainly used that word a lot when it came to Adam Lind, and it seems to have paid off, having him return to the Majors really comfortable with what he’s doing at the plate– or if it’s just lip service, but certainly Gose was hitting better than Snider in the near-term when the decision was made.

Guy Spurrier of the National Post puts forth more speculation, wondering if “Snider is not fully healed from his own wrist injury,” and that the “Jays might prefer, again, to let him keep working in Las Vegas.”

It’s also possible, he adds, that “Anthopoulos and Farrell didn’t like what the batting lineup looked like with Snider but without Bautista. They preferred, instead, to go with something like this — Davis/Gose, Lawrie, Rasmus, Encarnacion, Lind, Escobar, Johnson, Arencibia, Gose/Davis — rather stick Snider into the middle or bottom of the lineup, move Encarnacion into No. 3 and try to find a No. 4 hitter. It is probably better to leave Adam Lind out of the No. 4 spot while he is hitting well and gaining confidence, and it is a bad fit for anyone else.”

Again, we’re chasing a ghost called confidence, but it sometimes seems to be one that the Jays really do believe in.

Following that kind of thinking, I’ll throw out one more potential reason that Gose got the call: to send a message to Snider and Thames about their precarious position on the depth chart.

This is territory I don’t normally enter– generally because most times it’s total bunk– but… I don’t know here. Snider certainly has started hitting better since Gose was pulled from Monday’s game, going 3-for-4 that night, 1-for-4 Tuesday, and following it up with Wednesday’s big night, as discussed way back in the opening sentence of this post. I’m not suggesting that he was fucking around, biding his time for an inevitable call-up and got a hard awakening this week, but whatever brought his extra-base power back last night is a welcome development. Heading into the game, Snider had produced just 11 extra-base since April– itself potentially part of the reason why Gose may have got the call, or perhaps an indication of the lingering effects of injury, as Spurrier wonders about.

And if you really want to stretch for reasons, Gose and his ugly platoon split don’t render Ben Francisco as entirely useless as Snider would, either, and perhaps the club thinks it doesn’t hurt to have him get some MLB exposure, or wants to bluff other teams into believing they think he’s more ready than the sane world might believe.

Yes, it’s all fairly convoluted, but is it any crazier to believe that Snider is somehow being purposely held down, to his own detriment and the detriment of a potentially key asset for the club? I just can’t possibly think so.

Note: As I finish up this post, Snider has been pinch hit for in his second at-bat of the bat-around second inning of tonight’s 51s game. He homered to start the inning. No word yet as to why…


Image via Jonathan Ferrey/Getty.

Comments (192)

  1. Well well well well well

    Well well well

  2. Gotta think he’s either been traded or called up

  3. What if he’s hurt again?

  4. As I Said last time, it wasn’t just 15 days of suckage for Rajai Davis. Since June 1st he’s hit 239/293/328 (621 OPS). That’s over 40 games, 38 of which were starts. Let’s not pretend that it’s some recent thing that Davis has struggled here.

    Going back to May 15th it’s a slightly better 684 OPS, but still nothing to write home about.

    • 98 wRC+ in June. .284/.333/.375 for that month. Yes, the last 15 games drag it down, but look at the game logs, there’s a point where it dries up entirely, and it’s about 15 games ago. Sorry.

      • 98 wRC+ from a left fielder is significantly below average. What’s your point?

      • If you look at wRC+ by team for LF, the team ranked 17th is getting 101 wRC+ from their LF. So yeah, a 98 wRC+ is pretty bad.

      • What I don’t understand is why everyone feels the need to bash the guys that have played ahead of Snider. The fact is when Snider was given his chances(other than a couple of streaky periods) he was absolute crap. I hope the next time up he succeeds as well , but he is where he is because he caused it not the guys who have come instead of him.

    • Exactly, he’s been hitting poorly for well over a month now. In fact, outside of a short stretch, Rajai Davis has been bad all season (not to mention his brutal 2011). He’s clearly not starter-quality at the MLB level and it’s hard to explain why they’ve committed to him for so long like this.

      • Agree 100%.

        There is no reason to waste a starting spot on Davis, especially this year when the whole point is to see what we have.

        If we want to compete next year, we need to know whether Snider can be a part of that or not.

        • I agree and disagree….while It is a good idea to bring Snider up and really give him a full shot and not have to lok over his shoulder, Rajai should be discredited on his bat alone. His bat has been streaky this season and lately it hasnt been all that great, but he does bring the element of speed into the line-up that we have been able to utilize and create runs on several occaisons. His defence has also been strong and with his range combined with Rasmus and Bautista we have a very strong defensive outfield with him out there.

  5. I just checked gameday on the 51′s game and saw Sierra replace him. Came here to see if you knew.

    I hope it isn’t an injury, please be a call up!

    Please update us when you find out

  6. Tao = Angry Bird since Snider got dissed. The man crush is a beautiful thing. Even as much of a fan of Gose as I am, I think it should have been Snider. Gose could have filled Davis’ spot without a problem as 4th outfielder if and when he is traded. Otherwise Snider seemed to be the guy. Personally I have seen it before and not just in baseball. Players or others get bored if they are not challenged and as a result don’t perform as well as they could.

    • That’s what people suggested with Desmond Jennings and going back further Hanley Ramirez.

      Obviously you’d prefer not to see it but it’s entirely possible that’s the deal with Snider.

  7. Pretty sure his wrist is fucked again.

  8. The only reasons for him to be pulled in the 2nd inning of a game on a Jays off-day is an injury, or if he or someone on the ML roster has been traded. They wouldn’t have had him in the lineup in the first place if it was just a garden variety call-up.

  9. Andrew, I believe he homered to start the inning partly because he had a good pitch to hit. Mystery solved.

  10. Wouldnt be surprised if they dfa’d francisco and they decided to call up snider. They could have gose, rasmus, and snider in the lineup vs. righties and rasmus, snider/gose, and davis vs. lefties.

  11. We can justify the Gose call up all we want. but the reality is, they started Gose’s clock early, he has ugly splits vs lhp, he’s twenty fuckin 1.

    Yes he has recently been playing better than snider, but snider has had the better year so far.. are really fucking thinking that the jays would make a decision like this over a 2 week sample size??

    They clearly want to move him, and are worried a trip to the big club would tag him further as a AAAA player.

    its all kinda bullshit

    • Who cares about starting a clock early if they’re willing to pay the extra $3-5M it ends up costing them?

  12. I think you’re spot on Stoetes. Gose is just defensive filler in RF until Bautista is back.

  13. I think it’s possible they put Lawrie on the DL and called up Snider.

    • why would they have called up gomes then?

      If they were going to call up snider, wouldnt it have made sense to have him replace bautista?

      • I still don’t understand the Gomes call-up. It seemed like Snider was a no-brainer to replace a power corner OF with another one. It almost seems like A.A. has a Snider vendetta.

        • Gomes was precautionary so he isnt trying to catch a last minute flight half way across the country in case Lawrie cant go.

          • so whats changed in an off day then?

            still doesn’t make sense. i really dont think he was called up.

            they had their chance to call him up this week.

        • Gomes can play fucking everything; 1b. 3b. corner OF, and catcher. Prolly SS and 2b if you asked him to. A guy like that, who ISN’T Mike McCoy is pretty cool for the Jays right now with Bautista and Lawrie out.

  14. I think it’s strictly a matter of not burning Snider’s last option. As said AA doesn’t want to diminish trade value for either Fransisco or Davis if they’re to be a bit part in a trade. When Bautista gets back, there’s a logjam and not enough playing time. Not even sure he’ll get called up in Sept. I don’t think Snider’s coming up til the Spring

    • Pretty sure his option is burned this year anyway

    • It makes no difference whether he gets brought up or not. He can be brought up and sent down infinite times this year, its still one option year.

      Next year he has no options so if he doesn’t start the year with the big club, he must clear waivers..and he wont.

      • Thanks TTJF. I cant believe how many people think there’s a magic number of times a player in the minors can be called up.

  15. AA’S very pregnant wife probably made him run out and get her some ice cream or pickles so he figured if he wasn’t going to get any sleep Jays fans shouldn’t either and ordered Snider out of the game just to fuck with us.

  16. Stoeten, do you know of a good resource that explains options? It seems like it gets misused/misunderstood a lot on here and I think some people (myself included) could use a little clarity on the subject. Thanks.

  17. We’re assuming they traded Snider or Davis … maybe they traded Gose and Snider’s replacing him?

    (No insight here, just shitballing)

    • Probably a straight call-up. I am thinking the Vegas people can’t say anything until the Jays announce it themselves first. If it was an injury coaching staff there could say what they needed to as it only affects him. With a roster move there is others involved.

      • a straight call up and whos dropped off the 25 man?

        lawrie to the DL?

        • Who knows? That’s why we are waiting. Maybe the other people involved cant be reached since it was late EST already and they have to be informed personally first.

  18. Hate to even suggest it. He has hurt the wrist on a home run in the past. I remember he had like an 11 pitch at bat against the Rangers before he yanked it into the right field stands. I hope they have a made a move to trade Davis

  19. If they were going to put lawrie on the DL wouldnt they have announced it already? If that was the case, they could have done it by now. Why the wait? I think its a callup or maybe a trade.

  20. So, the phrasing of the 51′s box score and play-by-play write up lends itself to one of two possibilities: a) Snider was pulled prior to his 2nd AB in the 2nd inning, or b) he was pulled during that 2nd AB (that interpretation could be made based on the wording in the box score notes). Hopefully it’s a), as b) would almost certainly imply an injury situation.

  21. notice how this is all happening after someone *cough*cough* tried to discount the stealthness of the gm?

    he traded snider out of spite. way to go stoets, way to go

  22. It was only a game and a bit but Gose looked as lost (to me) in right field as Thames and Davisdo in left field. Wouldn’t mind seeing Snider come up to play right field, platoon Davis and Gose in left, and say goodbye to Fransisco.

    • theres NO way they send Gose down so quick after the call up.

      you dont treat a prospect like that… unless his name is travis ofcourse

  23. At this point you think it wouldn’t be injury related. If he just tweaked his wrist or something and was taken out as a precaution it should have been announced by now.

  24. I’m guessing that snider has been called up

  25. AA could be throwing fans a bone after all that has happened .

  26. There’s also the theory that having snider rake in AAA increases his trade value. Calling him up and stinking would not be good ala brett wallace.

  27. We (and indeed, history) shall remember July 20 as the date on which the 2012 World Champion Toronto Blue Jays’ season turned around.

  28. I did like the Liriano rumour I saw on Twitter especially if it was straight up for Snider though i would expect Liriano would cost more than that. Got to love these rosterbation rumours.

  29. Word from bloggers on Blue Jays website is that he was called up. This comes from a blogger named GS Jays.

    • Lol @gsjays

      • lol@bloggers and gsjays. I can barely make it thru more than one or two pages of comments there before I start to taste my own stomach acid.

        FamousAmazingGuy says:
        07.17.12 @ 9:53 PM EDT
        not sure why they’re burning coco in a low leverage situation?

  30. It’s also possible alex lost a bet. He probably bet farrell that he would only call up snider if he hit a home run in his first at bat tonight.

  31. Called up, may not be activated per Davidi

  32. Davidi says he’s on his way to Boston. Not necessarily called up though depending on Lawrie’s status.

  33. Sportsnet:
    Travis Snider is headed to Boston to meet up with the Blue Jays although it’s not clear yet why, a source tells

  34. So either Lawrie’s down (although that would leave them with the shorter bullpen after today’s earlier move), or someone on the MLB roster was traded.

  35. doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense to me, with Gomes getting called up to replace Lawrie if need be, why call Snider up? I would have liked to have heard it was a trade.

  36. Hopefully rajai is traded and we don’t have to see him throw with his eyes closed anymore

  37. Pretty amazing how shi is on top of everything and posts his info right away.

  38. Come on guys. Connect the dots on this one. They already demoted Dyson and called up Gomes as a precaution to Lawrie not being able to play. They are not going to then have Snider check out of the middle of a game and head to boston just in case…..they already prepared for the just in case.

    and as far as this having anything to do with lawrie, please remember the time difference between vegas and boston. it was fucking late night in boston when they pulled snider out.

    unless brett was donig some donkey style fuckin, why would his status suddenly change that late? if he cant sure he couldnt walk earlier in the day.

    something is brewing here..and its not “travis is standing by just in case”

  39. So he’s not injured since he’s on his way to Boston…good positive. That kind of makes me feel like a trade must have occurred for one of the outfielders…or maybe Gose is just being sent down? (which would be a nice shot to his confidence). I doubt they would have fucked around with him just because Lawrie’s status is questionable.

  40. The irony here is that AA likes to find players with high upsides who have fallen out of favor with their current organization, which is exactly what Travis Snider seems to be. Therefore , they should keep Snider and play him, lest some other club pick him up and have Snider come back to burn us. They absolutely should not give up on Snider until all other options have been exhausted.

    One good reason to bring him up now is the pitching staff is so bad, that maybe they’re just going to try to outslug everybody and accept the fact a lot of games are going to end up 15-12.

    • This isn’t true yet people keeping saying it.

      AA targets high upside MAJOR LEAGUERS who have fallen out of favour with their current organization (i.e. Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus, Villaneuva, Johnson).

      Snider hasn’t proven he’s a major leaguer yet and is not comparable to any single player acquired in the AA era.

  41. You guys realize that youre doing the exact WRONG thing here right?

    Once upon a time, Snider put up amazing minor league numbers and was called up to the big leagues. He had everyones eyes on him expecting him to be this larger than life power hitter that would save the team. At the time he was so hyped because there was literally nothing else in the farm system to even kind of get excited about. Eventually he was picked apart for every rookie mistake, he go frustrated as young players tend to do and eventually he crumbled under the pressure and fell into the void he is in now.

    Since then he has had stints in the majors, none of which produced much of anything worth keeping him in the major leagues, then he battled injuries and then struggled some more. However it seems that this year he was hot out of spring training because he’s working with a REAL HITTING COACH, one that preaches contact and lets the players drive the ball with their natural instincts, skill and power. Snider has done all of the above. So thus, everyone feels NOW is the time to call the man up right?….

    WRONG!.. and Ill tell you why it’s a bad time.

    For starters, his performance in the minors has started the Travis Snider hype mobile again. Minor league PCL NUMBERS have the hype machine building some speed right now. So there’s immediately pressure on him to walk into what is basically a new club to him and start killing major league pitching.

    Moving on,,, you have the HUGE addition of Jose and Lawrie being hurt at the moment so if Snider comes up, the fans will expect him to supply the power thats being lost with the other guys being out of the line up which packs on a bunch more pressure to perform.

    Then you have Dwayne Murphy who doesnt give a flying fuck about Chad Mottola’s ways or anything he’s taught anyone, in fact Im willing to believe that Murphy wants to show the organization how his ways are better than Mottola’s because he hears all the people calling for Mottola to replace him. Murphy ruined Snider once, he will be the end of him again if Snider comes up and starts being told that everything he’s doing is wrong simply because he’s not hitting foul line and foul pole kissing homeruns.

    To end my point, I think this season is fucking toast, the jays should trade Davis to anyone that will take him and when that happens and after lawrie and bautista are back in the line up, then or some time after that you call up Snider and let him step back into the line up with a lot less pressure. He should also have it in his mind to not listen to a single thing Dwayne Murphy has to say.

    • We have two specific instances (Bautista and EE) where working with Murphy (and in Bautista’s case, Cito/Tenace as well) on changing mechanics to their swings produced elite level players from a utility player and a good-but-not-great hitter who was DFA’d not too long ago.

      Generally speaking, there really isn’t a whole lot of tangible evidence to suggest a hitting coach is good or bad at their job. And I’m not saying Murphy is necessarily a godsend or anything to the Blue Jays organization.

      But based on these two examples, shouldn’t he, at the least, be given a tiny bit of credit seeing as, you know, guys like you have absolutely no fucking idea how to help a hitter improve at the plate and, therefore, shouldn’t act like you are an authority on the subject?

  42. Hey you fuckers who think I’ll be DFA’d. I ops’d 1.000 in june and .958 in july so I’m just as hot as edwin. Maybe I’ll be getting a 29 mil deal too.

  43. me thinks the only way Snider gets the official call up is if Davis or Francisco are moved. dont need to carry a 5th outfielder.

    • Well, you might want to carry 5 outfielders until Bautista comes back if you don’t want Gose and Snider hitting against lefties.

  44. Shi Davidi says he’s heading up to Boston to meet with the team. Let’s hope he’s here to stay…

  45. I think Snider is coming up to stay with the team this time. Either that or he is coming to say his good bye’s and be traded.

  46. Sounds like a trade is in the works, I’d guess either Gose or Davis being shipped out.

    Don’t know why they’d call him to Boston if he got hurt.

    Only other thing it could be is if one of the outfielders just got hurt, family emergency, etc. I guess we’ll see.

  47. Maybe they’re leaving the Lawrie decision until today. You know: see if he can play. If he can’t play, they use Gomes. If he can play, they use Snider. Same again all weekend until Lawrie is ready to go. That could happen. In this scenario, somebody’s just hanging in a hotel in Boston.

  48. I agree that Snider has been really badly-treated. Under the old regime this kind of thing could well happen just because JPR didn’t like the kid’s face. However AA is more thoughtful and more circumspect and doesn’t want to build a rep for the team that it doesn’t care about and misuses its players. It’s hard enough to get someone to come up here without that. I think they should play him for a long stretch to see what they have. However I think there’s also a possibility that they know something that we don’t and that’s why he’s been passed over so many times. We love to rag on the front office but in general they are more sophisticated than we give them credit for. If Snider continues to mash in Vegas, he might become part of a useful trade. If he returns to the majors and shits the bed, he won’t.

  49. Ya. I honestly think it’s not as complex as that. I just think (the Jays felt that) Thames earned the job over Snider at the end of last year and didn’t perform badly enough in spring training to lose his position. I think they want, as an organization, to give all their players the sense of fair treatment, including Thames. Then, when Thames shit the bed, Snider was hurt. Since he’s been back he had been, as AA said, inconsistent. He wanted to see Snider raking again before he got the call. 3HR in a game and a half clearly constitutes raking (in any league). Basically, maybe everything they’ve said is exactly what it is.

    • Talk about your small samples sizes!

      Seriously though, do you think AA was listening to the 51′s game on the radio, heard Snider hit a bomb, and IMMEDIATELY told them to get his ass on a plane? I don’t think that’s likely.

      There was another post on this thread that I think nailed thinking this through. The only thing that makes sense is a trade since Gomes was called up for Lawrie and Gose was called up for Bautista. They’re not just going to call up Snider now because nothing has changed that impacts the outfield in the two days since the Bautista injury.

      Either Rajai or Gose got traded, likely for a pitcher. At least it’s probably not for Upton since he would take the OF spot.

      • Maybe. But I don’t think so. We’ll see today I suppose. But I don’t think it’s ever been about the numbers with Travis. It’s about the process. If he’s been launching rockets all around the ballpark for the several days, then those three HR mean more than if they’re really just blooping flyballs. I’m assuming AA doesn’t just listen to the game on the radio. I know that a trade is far juicier. But it’s also, to my mind, less likely. They need to score runs. And maybe a platoon in both RF and LF is the best way for them to accomplish that. But we’ll see. It would be awesome if they got a pitcher. But it probably would have broken by now.

      • Also, I think the term “small sample size” is more for people who analyze statistics, and read boxscores on the internet than for an actual major league baseball teams evaluating their actual players.

        • (Major League baseball has moved beyond Money Ball and now seems to combine statistical analysis with traditional scouting. Or at least, the Jays front office seems to have.)

        • The SSS quip was a joke (mostly), as was the radio bit. I dunno; I can’t see them calling up Snider in the middle of his game unless something else happened too. It doesn’t make sense to me.

          • Maybe AA was watching him play. Saw an awesome at bat, after having seen his last bunch, and said: OK. That’s enough. He’s fucking ready.

  50. And ya know what? All of this developmental fuck-wadding will be forgiven, if this time, Travis Snider finally becomes our next Carlos Delgado.

    • Delgado? Pffft. I’m already better than that guy

      • Fuck I miss watching Carlos Delgado. He was fucking awesome. I mean, Joey Bats is great and all, but Carlos was fucking amazing.

  51. I just hope he’s replacing Davis, I’m tired of his suckiness.

  52. Ben Francisco apparently has options left.

  53. Logically speaking, Snider is taking Davis’ place.

    At the start of spring training, it was supposed to be a race between Snider and Thames. Thames won by virtue of being the incumbent, when the spring training race ended in a virtual tie.

    Then when Thames played himself out of a job, Snider was supposed to replace him… except Snider was injured. So Davis replaced Thames, and Davis didn’t suck. Davis was actually pretty good until recently.

    Thus when Snider came off the DL, he was given a few games in the minors to recover his stroke, and he never did, and went back on the DL.

    Meanwhile Davis has gone back to the black hole of suckitude we all know and love, so it’s time for Snider to replace him. Unfortunately Snider still hasn’t recovered his stroke, and wouldn’t be any better when they called him up…

    …until the last few games. And suddenly, here’s Snider. Coincidence? I think not.

    I’m pretty sure Snider was the plan in left field all along, as soon as Thames played himself out of a job. Injuries kept him from being called up until now.

    As for Gose in right field, perhaps they don’t believe Snider can play right.

    Or I could be completely wrong and this is about a trade. Admittedly the one big problem with this theory is who gets sent down/DFA’d. Francisco? Gomes? Davis? Visquel? Another pitcher? Because if this has nothing to do with Lawrie, then Gomes should still be up here.

    • agreed.

    • The only thing you’re missing here is the timing of the call up. Snider started that game in LV last night. If it was a plan to call up Snider, the front office would have come up with it before around midnight Boston time. Something happened last night to make the move possible. Maybe Lawrie made the call that he’s not good to go, maybe a trade was agreed to in principle, pending medical. If it were a DFA situation they’d do it during daylight hours.

      • Maybe another fantastic at-bat, following a fantastic game was enough to convince AA that Lunchbox was finally ready?

        • Maybe, but why not leave him in, why the rush to overnight him to Boston. What’s so important that doesn’t allow Snider to take a Friday AM flight for a Saturday call-up? It’s odd timing.

          • Maybe, just like in a trade, leaving him in is an injury risk. (especially with Travis Snider…..) But ya, it is weird timing.

        • The at-bat was at the start of an inning where the 51′s batted around. It is highly unlikely AA would make that call in between the homerun and 25 minutes later when his next AB would have been.

  54. There is not necessarily an imminent trade. Perhaps the Blue Jays are still considering whether to DL Lawrie. If he does go on the DL prior to today’s game, they’ll have an open spot on the 25-man roster for him to be recalled.

    • Or maybe he’s just not ready to go today? Maybe he’ll be ready to go tomorrow? I’m thinking they just don’t know and are waiting until today to get a better sense of it. If he’s not ready today, they’ll play Gomes and let Snider hang out in a Boston hotel kind of thing. If he is ready, then Snider goes in and Gomes goes to the hotel (or back to Vegas once they know Lawrie’s fine.)

      • I can’t see AA messing with Snider like that, especially after him saying that he wanted to make sure that when he does come up, he’s up for good.

        I think that, regardless of whether or not there’s a trade, Snider will be starting in the OF tonight.

        As you’re pointed out, we’ll know the answers in a few hours anyway, but speculation is fun!

  55. I had a wild dream last night that TBJs made a trade with with SF in the range of Lincecum & Belt for Lind, Escobar, Gose & one of the A young guns

  56. Lawrie precaution theory above makes no sense. Why pull him in the middle of an inning?

    • I agree, and calling up Snider when Gose, Davis, Rasmus and Francisco are still on the roster does not line up with the goal of giving Snider full playing time upon his recall.

      Also, they already called up Gomes to replace Lawrie and demoted a pitcher for that purpose. Logically, if Lawrie were going to the DL, you would think they would recall another pitcher.

    • Maybe it’s only got to do with Snider. Maybe after his great game two days ago, AA wanted to see if he could carry that momentum into the next game. Maybe AA just saw enough at that point, made up his mind, and didn’t want to risk an injury once he had? There’s a whole bunch of possible scenarios. I mean, a trade is certainly one of them too. But there’s nothing on the internet about anything. And it’s the day after. So….

    • Also, I’m assuming Snider is being brought up to play every day at LF, not to come and ride the pine.

      If he’s here because of Lawrie, he’d be sitting on the bench. Seems pointless to bring him up to bury him on the bench.

      If he’s here to start in LF, that’s a move that could have been done and should have been done regardless of Lawrie. All you have to do is option or DFA Francisco, and make Davis the 4th OF/RF against LHP. Lawrie’s status shouldn’t affect an OF shuffle like that.

  57. My .02$ is that Snider is being called up to boost this fucking offense. With the poor showing in New York they don’t want a repeat against the massholes. With Bautista down, Rajai sucking and/or platooning RF w/ Gose. Meat Boy is here to RAKE baby!!!

    FamousAmazingGuy says:
    07.17.12 @ 9:53 PM EDT
    not sure why they’re burning coco in a low leverage situation?

  58. yeah, smells like trade to me, and not snider as he wouldn’t be on his way to boston if that were the case.

    gotta think this is either DFA Francisco or trading Rajai or Gose.

    i’m starting to think it might actually be Gose as part of a larger deal.

  59. The suspense is killing me.

  60. He has been recalled, see

  61. 10 player deal completed?!?!. Details on twitter.
    We got Happ and Lyon

    Coco and Frisco gone

  62. francisco and cordero traded homies

  63. Trade just announced with Astros, involving 10 players or something.

  64. Coco is gone!

  65. Holy fuck.


    But JA Happ? err…

  67. Someone explain how that trade benefits the Jays at all?

  68. I don’t like the sounds of all this.

    Why not acquire Wandy?

  69. 10 player deal with Houston. Check out the twitter feed on Mashup.


  70. All I can say holy fuck that’s a stupid trade a first glance. Happ is Brett Cecil. Lyon is an old reliever. Carpenter is just a reliever.

  71. A lot of players involved, but really doesn’t seem to be all that significant of a deal. Weird.

  72. first reaction is very little upside for the Jays. Only hope is that somehow Happ can pitch in the AL East?

  73. Like waking up to a bad dream. You give up prospects with the upside of Perez, Wojciechowski and Musgrove for that junk?

  74. There has to be a part 2 to this, right? Why would we want any of these shitballers? Surely we’re flipping them elsewhere.

  75. Wow, the jays gave up a lot of prospect pitching depth. The one that hurts for me is musgrove. Dont know why they traded him. What I do know is that happ fucking sucks, lyon is a decent reliever, and carpenter i have no idea about. Seems like one of AA’s worst trades initially.

    • Wojo is the one that hurts for me. Perez too, he was supposed to be a good one before he injured himself this year.

  76. Jays didn’t get much.. but that isn’t the point.

    Farrell can no longer trot Cordero into baseball games that mean something!


  78. this is bizarre. Jays essentially give up 4 mid level prospects for JA Happ?

  79. this better be part of a larger goal.

    i mean, i’m glad to see snider up. and gose for as long as bautista is out.

    but we still need a real top 3 starter, and 2 if possible.

    and this upton thing is interesting.

    trade JPA. trade JPA trade JPA.

  80. Holy fuck my head hurts. Lyon is easily the best one and he’s 33. Carpenter has control issues and we have plenty of reliever shit ballers like that already. Happ is another Cecil clone or at best a poor man’s Romero.

    • I really dont like it. Happ is a marginal upgrade on cecil and laffey for fuck sakes.

      • Maybe there’s more to come but to make things worse Lyon is FA after this year. So essentially you get Carpenter and Happ out of it for all those prospects and 2 months of Lyon.

  81. And hey… Snider’s up. That’s kinda cool.

    Man I hope this is a part of a bigger plan because it’s crushingly anti-climactic if it’s not…

  82. @Blue Jay Way

    Sickles had Musgrove and Wojo as B- prospects. Wojo certainly seemed to turn the corner and was pitching very well the last couple of months.

  83. Personally I don’t think we gave up that much.

    Sure Musgrove and Wojciechowski had some upside, but they weren’t among our top 10 prospects by most lists. Fangraphs top 15 lists Wojciechowski as our #13, and Musgrove isn’t even on that list.

    Honestly the really shocking thing for me was that Cordero had positive trade value.

    Happ meanwhile has advanced stats that are far better than his current performance, including an SIERA of 3.90 and an XFIP of 3.94.

    Overall though this seems to be a trade of crap for crap. Nothing to get worked up over.

    • The problem is you’ve purged some of the depth from the system when it’s time to get higher ceiling players later on.

      • EXACTLY.

        It’s not what you gave up in THIS trade….its the opportunity cost in terms of what adding arms like WOJO and Musgrove could have gotten you if you added them as parts of a more significant trade in which you included one of your big three or even JPA.

  84. Okay, so Lyon should add another dependable reliever to the pen, so that would give us Oliver, Frasor, Janssen, and Lyon, in terms of pitchers you’d be comfortable using to keep a lead.

    Adding Happ to the rotation gives us a rotation of… Romero, Alvarez, Laffey, Happ, and… either Cecil, if you want a fifth decent bullpen arm; or Villanueva if you’re willing to hope that all you need is four good relievers.

    Seems like a “this year” trade to me, unless there’s another move coming. The only problem I see is, we didn’t get anything to flip in “another move.”

  85. I don’t mind it. The Jays didn’t give up any of their best prospects and aside from Lyon, the players are under team control through 2014. Although I’ve never been a huge fan, Happ’s been decent, according to his peripherals. Lyon’s an upgrade over Coco and should quell some frustration. Carpenter has upside as a reliever.

    All in all, we didn’t make a significant upgrade but we certainly didn’t pay a high price for what we brought back.

  86. We gave up very little and got slightly less in return, so no one can say AA didn’t do ;anything’ Snider, a fan favourite of many, gets his opportunity. Sounds like a PR move….wheres the beef?

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