Travis Snider was pulled from tonight’s game in the seventh inning for no injury-related reason, then proceeded straight into the clubhouse with John Farrell, eventually coming back out to shake hands and exchange hugs with teammates. Clearly he has been dealt somewhere.

And Wilner has it:

This will not go over well.

But, of course, Travis Snider for anybody would have had the masses up in arms, because of all that was promised of him over the years, and all that wasn’t delivered on. And of course, to many minds– mine included– all that he wasn’t given enough opportunity to deliver on.

But as disappointing as it is to see the club give up on him, and as underwhelming a return as Brad Lincoln appears to be on first blush– especially since this all went down in real time, on the field, with many rumours swirling about the club’s interest in Matt Garza — the red flags certainly come a little more into focus as Snider heads out the door.

There are the crazily high number of strikeouts. The inability to keep himself healthy and on the field. The lack of success he’s had in the few, limited opportunities he’s had in the majors.

Most importantly, I think, there’s the question of his future value.

As much as his recent call-up was welcomed by the many fans who’ve been following his career with great hope for so long, we knew it was essentially a make-or-break situation for Snider, because 2012 is his last option year. He’d have to play well-enough down the stretch to assure himself a job next season, which meant convincing the club to not aim higher in the off-season and to send Anthony Gose back to Triple-A for another season.

Yes, we all wanted to believe this was finally the time when he was going to put it all together, but if we think about it honestly– or look at the strikeout and walk rates he put up in the short time he was here– we can acknowledge that there was a very real possibility that he wouldn’t. And if he didn’t earn that job, and left the club looking for a contingency plan, a better option, or staring at the very real prospect of losing him for nothing on waivers if they ever needed to send him down, his value would have taken a considerable hit.

It’s fear of that possibility which, I suspect, has animated the Jays’ actions tonight, picking up a nice piece in Brad Lincoln in the process.

Lincoln’s numbers have moved in the right direction this year: his 4.29 K/BB is excellent, his strikeout rate is up, walk rate is down, swinging strikes are up, he’s added more than a mile-per-hour to his velocity, and all of those numbers look even better when he’s pitched in relief. His K-rate is up 10% when pitching in relief this year (29.9% and 10.0 K/9), and he’s got a WHIP of 0.84, a FIP of 2.43, and opponents’ wOBA against is just .228.

Now, is a solid-looking reliever at perhaps the peak of his post-prospect value the kind thing I always dreamed of the Jays getting in return for the Great Snider? Holy piss, no. But Lincoln is certainly an asset– and perhaps already more of one than Snider was ever going to be here. Plus, as Shi Davidi notes, the Jays have control of Lincoln until 2018, as opposed to just 2016 for Snider, which is also a plus– especially in the eyes of the club.

“We felt like we gave up a quality player to get a guy who’s starting to come into his own in Lincoln,” said John Farrell, according to another of Davidi’s tweets.

I always expected that, when this day came– as it’s looked more and more likely to have over the past few years– I’d be writing a paean for a still tremendously talented young player and raging against the organization that not only dealt him, but who sabotaged so much of his value before doing so– as so many have been tonight on Twitter and in the comments below. But… this isn’t so bad. Mind you, it’s not exactly uplifting– it isn’t the Rasmus deal or the magical offloading of Vernon Wells– but it’s really not as bad as you probably think.

And guess what? Lincoln isn’t even the newest member of the Jays’ pitching staff, as another trade was announced shortly thereafter! Yes, the club has dealt Eric Thames to the Seattle Mariners in exchange for yet another reliever: Steve Delabar.

Dave Cameron of FanGraphs and USS Mariner tweets that Delabar has a “big fastball (94-96) and a good splitter, but no breaking ball. HRs against RHBs his downfall so far, but fixable.”

So… it’s some immediate bullpen help for a team that seem to really want to believe it’s in the playoff hunt, regardless of the fact that they’re in such a poor position, probably not talented enough to make it happen, and that we’re talking about the coin flip that is the play-in game.

Has Anthopoulos been afflicted by the same cynical, short-sighted, everything-to-drive-attendance disease that plagued his predecessor? I sure as fuck hope not. And the deals he’s made these past few weeks, even if they very obviously serve to paper over an injury-ravaged area of need, don’t entirely have me convinced that he is– especially since it would mark such a major turn away from everything we’ve known about Anthopoulos, how he operates, and how we believe that he could have made deals happen last winter, but chose to cling to his best prospects.

Thing is, much like with Brett Wallace, Nestor Molina, and even Wojciechowski and Musgrove, the perception among fans about who those top prospects who must be held so tightly are doesn’t necessarily match what the front office believes. We’ll miss the myth of Snider– the feeling of possibility that, just beyond our noses, exists the kind of young, vital, untapped power that could turn a season, or the club’s entire fortunes around for years to come– but not so much his real, tangible production on the field. I wish him well and hope that he blossoms into an All-Star in Pittsburgh, not out of spite for the way the club jerked him around and tempted fate by messing with his ample talents, but because I believe the talent really is there, even if I can understand why maybe the Jays felt this was the best move for their ballclub from the point-of-view of asset management.


A new era awaits– yet again. And probably more deals, too.


Image via Tom Szczerbowski/Getty.

Comments (635)

  1. Hey, we owe the Pirates a 40+ HR hitter anyways. If Lincoln turns out better than Robinzon Diaz, consider it a net win.

  2. Wow Thames gone too

  3. See my above post (called it first)

  4. fuck thames traded too!!! who would have predicted this!!

  5. Thames to the Mariners for Delebar according to Dividi

  6. Thames to the Mariners – probably playing tomorrow vs old team

  7. Everybody was screaming for AA to acquire pitching. What did you think it was gonna cost?Snider was out of options.
    And now Thames has been traded.

  8. No more buying. Please. Stop buying AA. Give up in this season and go back to the way you were.

  9. lincoln is only 6 feet, another drabek I see

  10. Benny Fresh… Lunchbox… Facial Hair God…. why not get rid of Bautista while we’re selling of all OFs

  11. with acquiring these relievers, does that mean Jays trade Oliver?? Janssen??

    • Nah its your new pen for next year for the right side.

      Janssen, Santos, Lincoln Delabar Oliver, Happ, Loup

      There you go.

  12. Snider should have been part of a deal for me!

  13. Okay, Thames gone too? There’s gotta to be an controllable OF showing up tomorrow. Upton???

  14. Eric Thames, Travis Snider, its good to be Rajai.

    • Maybe, or maybe there’s another shoe coming. Maybe. hopefully. Perhaps.

      • I hope and assume so. Gose is not ready to stay for good and if he is he will end up shuttled back and forth starting next year and fucked up like snider was. Also Moises Sierra would now have to be called up as a 4th outfielder and if someone got injured I have no idea who would be next in line. Kevin Pillar all the way from single A?

  15. Thames too. Funny when you remember that whole competition in spring training. Both dealt within an hour of each other.

  16. WTF?!?! Delabar?

    Appears to be Joel Carreno, except with less of a dropoff this season.

    Then again all we gave up with Thames.

  17. Sorry Masterson Ricky walks enough people! So when will there be a new thread we can rip apart?

  18. delabar is a stud. must be a LF coming?

  19. Delabar’s a huge strikeout guy, not much else there:

  20. Please let this mean the framework of Justin Upton trade is in place for tomorrow or offseason

    • Whats with the fucking Upton hard on? It is not gonna happen. I’d rather keep the black goose.

      • If you mean you’d rather have Gose over Upton then you sir need to get off the prospect crack.

      • A 24 year old who finished 5th in the NL MVP voting last year and is under cheap club control through 2015? I’ll take four.

  21. Pirate fan here.

    Lincoln was moved to the pen and his stuff upticked 3-4 mph. Pirates thought of him as a future closer. Starting he tends to run out of gas and get hit the third time through the order. Would have liked the Pirates to trade Hanrahan instead and make Lincoln closer.

  22. Heres the thing: most of these comments are fucking retarded. AA has proved in the past that he is a very smart man who uses his scouts more than his ego. You have to give the guy credit that he knows what he’s doing. Look, Gose is a fucking wet dream prospect, which leaves no where for Snider to play in the future. Snider strikes out way way too much and probably always will. Also, with a power core of Lawrie, Rasmus, Bautista, EE and evern Arencibia, Sniders skill set is superfolous. On top of everything else, take a fucking breath before you shit all over this. I am pretty sure the scouts who reccomeneded this trade have actually seen Lincoln pitch, where as, if you just googled a fucking guy you never heard of how accurate is your assessment? Bottom line: pitchers are way more valuable than outfielders and 10 X harder to assess, predict and develop.

    • Dumb comment. You can never have too many productive batters. Also Gose has much bigger question marks on his bat than Snider. Why trade away Snider when Gose is not even close to ready?

      • but atleast he can play defensive at a higher level and steal bases

      • You just be allergic to critical thinking. Yes, productive batters are awesome, but how many guys do you need to hit 20 homers and strike out a billion times? Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge fan of Snider. All I am saying is that its dumb to shit on a trade where you only know the guy coming back from his goddamn wikipedia page. Why not at least give the professioals talent assessors the benifit of the doubt (esp. in light of the morrow, lawrie and rasmus trades) for a few weeks before you make up your mind.

        • Why are those 3 trades always used in AA discussions.

          Morrow has all the potential in the world, but as of now he is a mid rotation starter who can’t stay healthy.
          Rasmus has one good month as a Blue Jay.
          Lawrie for Marcum was a fair trade that helped both teams. A SP to help in a championship run for a close prospect

        • With you on this one, A_A_C

    • AA has also made lots of mistakes.

      Gose is far from a sure thing. And ironically he is now in the majors too early, considerably less prepared than Snider was when he was called up at a younger age.

      A guy who failed to win a starting spot for 3 seasons in the NL central can not be that good, unless AA’s scouts can see into the future

    • -1

  23. The only thing about Delabar is that he digs giving up the long ball in a Coco like fashion. 9 HR’s in 36 innings.

    That’s the one drawback with Lincoln too is that his HR/FB rate is high too

  24. Trade Rajai!!! Please?

  25. Who the fuck is going to play in the outfield?

  26. Hahahahahaha, still here. Hehehehehehehe. Lick me.

  27. AA wheeling and dealng now

  28. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  29. Guys Snider was not hitting well hit a couple homers early on but has not progressed I get Sniders a nice guy but ……………..F#### he is a scrub has not shown marked improvement yet last year first few games after call up he hit as well.

  30. Proof draft picks and K/9 for RP don’t matter:
    Lincoln: 4th overall, 1.1 WHIP, 9.1 K/9
    Delabar: 29th ROUND, 0.93 WHIp, 12.7 K/9

  31. Oh wow thames is gone too??? Does this mean gose starts in LF on a regular basis? Fuck, I hope not.

  32. How d’you like me now, bitches

  33. Wow. We actually have an awesome bullpen. And I’m still not happy. Fuck.

  34. well snider was 1/10 last soooo, but most hitters generally don’t change after their first 1000 ab’s so it’s likely snider never amounts to anything.

  35. Apparently the Jays are still in on Garzaaccording to Jim Bowden wonder if Lincoln or Delebar are going to be part of a package in a Garza deal.

    • I find it hard to believe that Delabar is the tipping point of a Garza deal (or any deal for that matter). Lincoln, maybe. I think the Thames trade is clearing the LF depth chart for somebody acquired when the other shoe drops later tonight or tomorrow.

  36. A starting rotation of Romero, Morrow, Alverz, Happ and Lincoln is not terrible, espesially when you consider that Drabek, Hutchison, McGowen, Villenoava (?) and Cecil make a decent back up 5 / potential bull pen arms and thats not even talking about our (possibly overhyped) super magical stock of potential aces in double A. Plus, Janson and Santoes.

    The Future of our pitching staff looks unreal.

    • Lincoln as starter? Please. If that rotation is what we have for next year we’d be seriously fucked. That makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

      • Don’t tell me your one of the retards that thinks Romero somehow forgot to pitch (he’ll back to his usual 1b starter status in no time). Morrow is a potential Ace, Alverez is only going to improve, Happ is an above average end of the rotation guy and I guarentee you Lincoln is a starter.

        • Happ above average end of the rotation guy? Really when? Back in 2009? Please. Also where did I say anything about Romero? I didn’t. Having replacement level 4th and 5th starters won’t get you anywhere in the AL East. Keep kidding yourself. There’s a great chance Romero bounces back and then there’s a chance he doesn’t. Carlos, Laffey or maybe even Cecil are upgrades over those 2 guys as starters.

    • Unfortunately our super magical stock of potential aces are in single A. You’re thinking of the last batch of overrated prospects – McGuire and Jenkins. They were the ones that were supposed to give us the depth to avoid trading all of our outfielders for relief pitchers this year.

    • that would a failure on AA’s part if he goes into 2013 with that rotation.

  37. I got to say I do find it funny that the one guy (cooper) who probably wants to be traded the most is still with the team.

  38. Brandon League to Dodgers for prospects. Jays are selling off all OF, Mariners are selling off all RPs

  39. Hopefully Seattle starts Thames in the OF tomorrow night….amiright?

  40. Delabar is from Fort Knox, hes gotta be gold.

  41. i love it. sick of hearing about when snider was coming.then he is called up. then i pick my team to cheer for in the NL pittsburgh it is. then the snide is shipped to pitts for much needed pitching help.yayyyyyyyyyyyy all around. whoever is calling the shots is replicating AA. throwaway burnett having an exceptional year and the yanks paying his salary to boot,hahaha.the snider fans are upset but they wont admit he just hasnt peerformed well.and you have to admit some of the jays pitchers are unexpectedly pitching well. maybe AA can drive this lincoln to the promised land. i like that the jays arent giving up on this year. AA must have a chance at another trade for LF/1st

  42. 5 man infield?

  43. Stoeten, Parkes and Drew are just happy that they’ll have endless “Lincoln = car” jokes on the DJF podcast

  44. So we have 3 OF right now. One of them being that piece of shit named Gose? Man I really hate that guy especially when he adjusts his chain every at bat.

  45. we now have the 20 man bullpen and a one man bench

  46. Jays fans probably spent the evening figuring out ways to orchestrate a Garza or Upton deal with a package centred around Snider. Pirates fans balked at the possibility of dealing Lincoln straight-up for Victorino and said they might entertain a deal if it was straight-up for Pence instead.

    Let’s just accept that we know little to nothing about this business and the relative value of players on the trading market.

    • I will not follow your thinking

    • Let us just agree that Snider was never given a fair shot by the Blue Jays. Let us also admit that the fact that you have to trade a starting position player with a high ceiling (who plays above average LF defense) it is a failure of your farm system. For all the hype this farm system has, it has not produced power arms out of the pen..something almost every organization can turn a couple failed starters into

      • A little unfair not one of AA’s draft picks are on the team…. I agree on Snider never given a chance

      • Bingo!. I am shocked that the Jays can’t develop their own relievers. Cecil should be in the bullpen next year.

        This will be AA’s third shot at completely rebuilding the bullpen.

  47. I have to wonder if the acquisition of these two relievers means we are trading janssen. His value must be sky high right now and if santos comes back next year, we can afford to lose him

    • No way we trade the only proven RP other than a 41-year old man. Oliver is so reminiscent of “Pops” from Major League: Back to the Minors

  48. Snider to Pittsburgh for Brad Lincoln. Thames to Seattle for Steve Delabar. These are good trades. The jays just picked up two huge bullpen arms who are under control until 2018. Thames is completely fucking useless and Snider is going to turn out to be a strikeout machine with some power. These won’t go over well with the fans but I think they will loom large. Jays just went from having the worst pen going to a pretty darn good one.

    • right now they are blind with rage. if anyone on here is a fan of snider they should be happy he is going to play in the bigs every day. but the selfish emotional bitches will rag on. prospect porno is addictive to half this population and until they get their hands off their boner and let the blood back into their brain ,snap a thon will continue

    • Funny, that’s exactly how the start of the season went except backwards and without roster moves

  49. While I trust Alex to know more about Lincoln than I do. I kind of thought that Snider was the kind of guy he likes to trade for.

  50. Do you think Seattle is trying to cut down on travel costs? They keep trading players to their current opponents. Either that or their GM is a sucker for face to face negotiations.

  51. The interesting point on snider that needs to be considered is that he’s out of options next year so if he struggled the jays would be stuck with him on the bench. Now that’s pirates problem. It’s entirely possible that he gets waived next year or after. With lincoln the jays don’t have that problem

    • Lincoln is also out of options according to Pirates website. Unless you get to reload options when you get traded? Seems unlikely.

    • Wouldn’t have thunk it was you,Grouchy, who figured that out.
      That was part of the key.
      Snider was either with the big club next year or he was gone for nothing.

  52. Oliver more so

  53. we’re gonna hit 300 comments in under an hour.
    What the fuck are you people doing up at this hour?

    He he
    Love the passion for the Jays.keep it up.

  54. I like the delabar trade MUCH more than the lincoln trade.


  56. this is absolute bullsh!t. Long Live Lunchbox

  57. WHat about Ricky ? He pitched pretty good tonight.

    • Giving up 4 runs to Seattle is like giving up 14 runs to any team in the AL East.
      No, he did not pitch well.

      • Those runs in the first inning wouldn’t have happened without the unlucky bounce off the ump. Run #3 was the byproduct of a passed ball and an error. So I would say Ricky fared much better tonight

  58. Well the Jays certainly got their strikeout pitchers for the back end of their pen. Only thing that scares me is their HR rates which are pretty scary. Pen, at least for now, looks like this:


    Hopefully they can get rid of the bad Carpenter now and get an extra bench player. I would expect them to bring up another outfielder as soon as Lincoln gets to Seattle. Maybe we’ll get to see Sierra.

  59. Also, I disagree with Goldstein in that the jays do NOT have this huge glut of outfielders. Not if you mean glut of OF that can actually PLAY. they have Gose who is not ready, they have davis who is a platoon player/bench player, and Marisnick is down in AA and not doing much, so to act as if he’s knocking on the door is ridiculous. so yeah….where is this glut?

  60. Stoets please tell me how to feel! I kinda like these trades, our BP needed suring up, and it’s for the long term…and even though I wasn’t a big Lunchbox fan, this is still a little depressing.

    Heeeey maybe they will trade for Pence? Or sign Hamilton (LOL).

  61. How the hell am I supposed to sleep now and get up for work early tomorrow?!?!

    I have to read every single shred of analysis from every baseball blog and writer and check mlbtraderumors every 2 minutes for anything new now.

    Make these trades earlier in the day!

  62. Has to be more coming, like we may down grade the bullpen by dealing Oliver and someone else with a prospect or or three depending on the package in return. We may keep these guys but only because there soon to be a few guys exiting

  63. it will be something if gose stays up for the rest of season. i still think AA is showcasing him.there is another trade in the works for sure.has to be a young srtuggling controllable left fielder.but who?

  64. Ol’ Cito checkin’ in here folks after the big Snider trade. I tell you what, I never did see anything in that kid. Always kinda reminded me of that Shawn Green kid that could never hit the ball the other way. And what is a Lunchbox Hero? What kinda nickname is that? I like me more traditional nicknames like Buck, Dusty, Coco and Satch. And speaking of Coco. Man, I tried to get ol’ John boy to stick with Coco as a closer, but he just wouldn’t listen. A proven vet like that? Shiiiiiitttttt – you gotta stick with him in the 9th. No doubt about it. But no way would John Boy or Alex listen to ol’ Cito. And now I find out that the sweet soul brother Eric Thames is on his way to Seattle? Come on now Alex. At least you’ve still left ol’ John boy Rajai Davis to play left. That guy’s a proven vet. He goes all out and goes to battle for you day in and day out. There’s your left fielder Alex. No doubt about it.

    But seriously Alex. You trade Travis to the Pirates and DONT get the Jays Kevin Correia? Say what? I though you needed a proven vet to give you some innings. There’s your guy Alex. There is your guy. Maybe you got something up your sleeve though. Ol’ Cito thinks you’ve got a blockbuster coming. That’s right, you heard it hear first folks. Don’t need to Tweeter to be breaking trades like this. You’ve gotta figure Alex is on the verge of a acquiring one of them legit big leaguers who goes to battle for you – flat out puts everything on the line, day in and day out. And that big leaguer is none other than Joe Blanton. Hell yeah. Now there’s a guy you can give the ball to every 5th day. Throws you a fast ball, curve ball – just flat out knows how to pitch. Hell, if the Jays win that new Wild Card and have a one game playoff – no doubt about it, Ol’ Cito would give the ball to Joe Blanton – even if he was on two days rest.

    Thinking about it now, Ol’ Cito does get a little teary eyed thinking about Travis sporting that fake mustache on my last day as a manager in the bigs. But you know what? That’s about the most impressive thing he’s ever done in his career. He aint no prover vet. Not like Rajai. Not like Rajai….

    And that’s why I’m a World Series winning manager.

  65. i hope the jays move Oliver and maybe Casey. We’re not in it for this year. Move those two for something interesting. And then we have these new arms for future years.

    I do like having casey on the backend though.

  66. Prediction is Davis is next, trade the man asap before his clover is used up

  67. is it safe to sleep yet?

  68. pick me guys

  69. So who would have thought before the season started that the Jays would make a trade with the Pirates and it would be the Pirates trading for now and the jays for later.

  70. bautista for mccutchen

  71. Well, honestly, what the fuck, I have no idea how this will work out. It’s clear AA considers controllability as a huge part of a player’s overall value.

    With the bullpen we now have
    Lincoln – arb 2015 FA 2018
    Delabar – arb 2015 FA 2018

    With Janssen, Happ, Santos, Oliver(if he doesn’t retire) all under contract for next year. Loup, Carreno, Crawford hanging around for a rainy day.

    Sooo… I’m sad to see Travis go, buuuuut…. they still haven’t really given up a major piece and the ‘pen is definitely well set for next year. Obviously a starter needs to be coming through the door sooner rather than later.

  72. I dunno what is happening here or how to feel about it.

    Bottom line here is, the jays rotation is pitching pretty well with the guys that have been filling in and hutch/morrow will return soon plus theres a lot of thought that Garza is still in play here. The bullpen has lost this team SO MANY fucking games this season, its been absolutely dreadful from day one apart from a few bright sides. Lincoln and Delebar are both competent guys that can come in, throw hard and throw strikes which is what Farrell wants. Loup has been pretty impressive for me personally, so has Beck.

    With a good bullpen this team could do something and I dont see Thames and Snider as losing much at all, yeah sure Ill miss Snider a whole bunch because of the dream of what he could have been but Thames is USELESS in my eyes, career DH at best, no defensive skill at all and stubborn as a mule with hitting coaches apparently.

    So…. lets see what happens here. Good luck Travis and good luck Thames.

    • No team that has a rotation of Laffy, CV, Shitballer, Bizarro-Ricky, and Homerson Alvarez is going to be winning any wild cards. They are done for this season. I don’t care what bullpen you have, you need better starting pitchers.

      Also don’t you think some of these pitchers seem redundant.

      • Laffey and Vill have been just great, Alvarez has been better then add Morrow/Hutch and that COULD be a decent enough rotation to hold things down hard enough to let the offense do their thing.

        Stranger things have happened…… where’s Romero in that mix you ask? DFA him ASAP

  73. So there really has to be something else to this Thames/Delabar trade. The dude has been a pile of shit when it comes to keeping the ball in the park, and has had negative value in his (brief) career.

    • I don’t think there is. His HR/FB rate this year is insanely high – it has to regress, which ought to make his numbers settle down. He’s not a sure thing, but there’s potential in the arm, which, well, I’m not sure you can say much more than that for Thames. If Delabar gets his shit together, he could be nasty, which doesn’t seem like a bad return for a player that pretty well nobody wanted suiting up again for the major league team.

      Delabar’s also controlled until 2018.

  74. Lincoln actually looks pretty fucking good to me.

  75. One additional bonus going into next year is that Lincoln and Delabar are making league minimum this year and even if they get bumps to $750k a year it should save about $7.5 million for next year for a starter.

    • hey night manimal…why do you give a flying FUCK if rogers saves 7.5 million dollars next year? what evidence do you have they will spend this money towards a starter? I personally could give a fuck about the payroll…they dont give bonus wins for victories per dollar of payroll , when they do..ill look into it

      • “hey night manimal…why do you give a flying FUCK if rogers saves 7.5 million dollars next year? what evidence do you have they will spend this money towards a starter?”

        Saw this coming..

      • The potential is there now compared to before. It gives them more flexibility. Whether they spend it on a starter or not we’ll have to wait and see won’t we? Also I don’t get where I said payroll per dollar is a good thing. Maybe you’re tired and stressed out or something. Maybe you could go back and work on your reading comprehension before bed time.

        The fact is spending less on the pen for equal or better performance compared to what we got out of Coco and Frasor is a good thing isn’t it?

        • you spent in talent , not dollars. snider is a talent. bullpens are best put together internally or from spare parts, not your starting LF. As far as my reading comp skills, I scored quite high on my MCAT verbal reasoning section. Why bring up salary if you aren’t implying that the money saved is some sort of team victory.

          • Uhhh… bullshit. As much as we’ve all loved Snider, he’s never produced. There’s talent, but will there be MLB production? Nobody knows. Lincoln’s got talent as well, and he’s KILLED this year from the pen. Your theory about how to build a bullpen is basically meaningless.

            As for the salary, you’re either foolish or trolling if you don’t think that the team a) has a budget and b) can reallocate savings in one place to spend it in another.

          • Snider hasn’t proven shit unfortunately. Please check his stats before continuing. I will admit he’s got the potential ceiling to excel. Will he? Talk to me in a few years. I will miss his glove in the field that’s for sure.

            Obviously you’re not grasping the money issue. I’ll try and make it clearer for you. The Jays haven’t spent big in ages. There’s nothing to suggest they won’t or will. That said, if the performance out of the two new pen guys equals what you were paying $8.5 million for in Coco and Frasor then the team is ahead. Fuck Rogers. I hate Rogers. It’s the team that’s going to benefit because they’ll have more money to spend on other areas. Whether it’s on a veteran starter or another hitter or 2nd baseman who knows. At least they have that money to reallocate as they wish. Also if you weren’t aware, the new CBA stopped the Jays from getting revenue sharing going forward. What they were getting before is being clawed back by 25% every year until it’s gone. The last reports had the Jays get around $36 million in revenue sharing. That’s money that has to be replaced for the fucking bean counters one way or another. Saving here or there is a bonus as long as the performance is equal or better from the new guys end of story. Really it’s not hard to understand.

          • “bullpens are best put together internally…”

            Who told you this SoWSS? I think most sabermetricians would agree that building a pen by blowing big money on free agents or trading for expensive “names” is a bad idea; however, what’s wrong with doing it by trading what are essentially prospects for other prospects?

            Travis Snider may very well figure it all out, but so could Brad Lincoln. They’re both highly touted and have shown signs of turning the corner–I think a SP would have a lot more value than a LF (as for us trading our “starting LF,” Snider was no more our starting LF than Gose is our starting RF at this point…bit of a dramatic reaction isn’t it?

            As soembody else said earlier, who saw Brandon Morrow turning into anything special? Same draft year, similar backgrounds…

            Congrats on the high MCAT score by the way. I see you’re feeling good about it.

      • The more I read your comments, the less I actually think you smoke weed. Chill out man, so angry. Geez

  76. Just found this…… uhhhhh lol not quite sure how to feel about this either…

  77. This could be Pittsburgh’s sweet revenge on the Diaz-for-Bautista deal.

  78. Also, for a fun tidbit, Anthopoulos has now made 25 trades since becoming GM (less than 3 years).

  79. Surprised Wilner is not having a complete breakdown over Snider. I think he’s said he’s going to be a huge star about 20 times since the trade already.

  80. delabar has give up 15 er in 15ip on the road. that translates well to skydome.

  81. Blue Jays trade organization for Josh Johnson. Josh Johnson out for year with a blistered finger on his 8th pitch to no catcher. The Blue Jays’ season is folded.

    • hahaha replace Johnson with Garza and there will be a catcher, Tony Rasmus will be back there after signing a 5 yr 30 million dollar deal.

  82. i’m drunk, emotional, left the bar in a second when i heard the news, cried myself home. tried to think of the positives…. positives… fire AA?

    • Sober up and put your big boy pants on.
      Life is tough, baseball is too. Full of twists and turns,sometimes friends get fired or traded.
      Welcome the new players and expect the unexpected, cause this is how a playoff team is built and it ain’t for the faint of heart.
      Fasten your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

  83. Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi

    Farrell on Lincoln: “Right now we envision him in the bullpen. That’s where he’s flourished, that’s where he’s seemed to come into his own.”

    That seems to make the most sense to me as well since Morrow will be back by mid August if all goes well and Hutch potentially in September. Even if Hutch is not back this season he’ll be back in the rotation next year. That’s going to potentially push Laffey and Cecil out for sure assuming Romero bounces back.

  84. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, alvarez will be a closer for this team eventually. Imagine it for a second…. out of the pen his fastball would be 97-98, that change up and slider would be complete devastation and he could be the next K-Rod.

    Rotation next year could be Romero, Hutch, Morrow, Cecil, Marcum (yes I believe he will be back). Imagine Hendo out of the pen…… just think for a sec.

    • if they make alvarez a closer, he’s only going to be throwing a fastball and change. that slider will be the first thing they junk. I dont see them making him a closer anytime soon though..too much potential as a starter.

      • I see a lot of arm problems in his future as a starter with his current delivery. Theyd be smart to make him a reliever. And I think his slider would be there as that surprise 3rd pitch as a reliever, the one he throws and twists the odd guy in a knot because he brain is only thinking fastball or change up.

    • Hendo, the guy who can’t really strike anybody out yet induces ground balls and gets quick innings like starters are suppose to? No thank you.

  85. Shi Davidi Tweets

    “Farrell has also announced they are converting Gose to a pitcher and he will also start in the pen”

    “jays plan on using a 16 man pitching staff with only nine position players…one of the pitchers not being used to pitch that day will DH”

    “jays got this idea from letter written to Richard Griffen in last week’s Toronto Star Mail Bag”

  86. Travis Snider ‏@Lunchboxhero45
    TO.. It’s been real. Thank you all for everything. Staff/players/fans I can’t say it enough. First Class all the way! Honored and blessed.

    • Travis Snider ‏@Lunchboxhero45
      Pittsburg- I’m fired up. Ready to join the race. Looking forward to playing hard for you everyday. One day at a time. #thankful #blessed

  87. Travis Snider @ his mind not twitter

    “holy fuck thank fucking god I dont have to work with Dwayne Murphy anymore, fuck him in his stupid ass”

    • And yes I blame Murphy for Snider’s shitting the bed at the big league level. Murphy has fucked up more hitters than he’s helped. Mottola needs to be with the Jays sooner than later before all the good young hitters in the system are ruined.

  88. he will be missed.

    sad sauce engaged

  89. Speculation:

    Jays have been interested in Victorino.

    Phils tried to get Lincoln from Bucs straight up for Victorino and Bucs refused.

    Jays trade two outfielders, get Lincoln.

    AA loves threeways…

    • No.

    • Victorino, Rasmus, Bautista,,,,,,, best outfield in baseball and a LEGIT and true lead off man for once. IF there is an extension in place or possible. Which I doubt there would be. I think AA wants to keep Lincoln

  90. Lincoln has one of the best ERA’s out of the pen this year..from what i hear he was unhittable in Pitts…a lot of people their fans are wondering why they traded him..hmm

    • Oh, wait. You mean other teams actually have good players, too? You’d never know it reading the 400 idiotic comments on here.

  91. We will come to rue this day…

  92. We’ll miss the myth of Snider– the feeling of possibility that, just beyond our noses, exists the kind of young, vital, untapped power that could turn a season, or the club’s entire fortunes around for years to come– but not so much his production on the field. I wish him well and hope that he blossoms into an All-Star in Pittsburgh, not out of spite for the way the club jerked him around and tempted fate by messing with his ample talents, but because I believe the talent really is there, even if I can understand why maybe the Jays felt this was the best move for their ballclub from the point-of-view of asset-management.

    thats fuckin nailz.

  93. If they are intent on playing Gose everyday for the rest of the season I wonder if this starts the ball rolling for the Jays to move Rasmus to left once Jose gets back since most of Gose’s current value is his play in center. Should be interesting, It also might be an example of moving a good player off a position for someone like Escobar to see if the Jays plan on moving him over to 2nd for Hech. Not saying they are but someone needs to play 2nd next year, maybe it’s Hechavarria. Personally I would be fine breaking Hechavarria in to the majors as Vizquel’s replacement as utility infielder next year.

    • Thats dumb…. youd bring up a young star prospect to have him play a part time utility role during a key development phase of his career? Youd be OK with that? I wouldnt and I promise you that wont happen, he will be playing full time and getting full time at bats wherever he is next year.

      My thought is, they bring him up when the rosters expand and see what goes down. Then next season, he will be the new SS and Escobar the 2B because really there is no one to play 2B, no one in the system, no one on free agency really and I dunno whats up with KJ but my thoughts are, if Hech looks ready when the rosters expand, if he doesnt look ready Johnson gets another one year deal.

  94. so AA trades away good relievers last yr for rasmus. now he trades snider for good relievers. who would you rather have snider or rasmus? i will take cletus thank you. and to all you haters fuck off in advance. pitt fans are screaming at this trade. i think AA knows what he is doing. ninja extraordinaire. after seeing 2 LF go tonight i am sure he is getting one tomorrow trading some excess pitchers

  95. Fact is, excuses aside, both Thames and Snider came up and didn’t do much of anything to get overly excited about. Unproven for unproven in my eyes. Hopefully it works out.

    I can’t see anyone getting bent out of shape over these trades. I think people should get more bent of shape that this is probably all that will happen. $$$?


  96. I never bought into the myth….i thought he was okay but never thought he was athletic enough…this last stint was his best IMO defensively….but I still would like more speed in LF than Snider has….i always thought he was just OK.

  97. Waking up in London to this….more than a bit frustrating. We all had a feeling the Jays didn’t believe in Snider any longer (or else why would they have **** around with him to this extent), but to trade him for this kind of return? Disappointing. It seems AA’s obsession with relievers finally cost us a real asset this time. There are simply better ways to build a bullpen than trading young, talented, cost-controlled outfielders for do so…AA should have at least learned that much from Ricciardi.

    The most unfortunate thing is that Snider never even had a real, prolonged shot here without getting screwed aroun. His trade value was damaged to the point where we only get a very flawed player in Lincoln back…imagine what we could have had two or three years ago? If Snider becomes the league-average OF (or better) that it seems he will, this trade has tremendous potential to bite them.

    And who is going to play LF going forward exactly…the guy who can’t hit righties (Davis) or the guy who just can’t hit at all (Gose)? Or both? Either way, it’s going to suck to watch before they get a real player that can play the position (or until Gose ever learns to hit).

    I do hope there’s a lot more left to come as this team still has holes in the rotation, at 1B/DH, and now one that AA has apparently created in the outfield to add a bullpen guy that the team didn’t even need.

    • seriously? The Jays have one of the top offences in the game an you worry about a guy who hasn’t played only 10 games for them this year?

      • The Jays’ offense isn’t anywhere close to as good as the Yankees…the team the Jays needs to beat if they ever want to contend for the AL East. Creating a huge hole in LF to add another reliever isn’t a good thing.

    • BFF –Go back to sleep.Again looking for the conspiracy where none exists.I disagree with your and Stoeten’s assessment that Snider was jerked around to the point where he couldn’t succeed.
      Stop worrying about who will play left.That will work itself out. This isn’t for this year it’s for 2013.
      Snider needed to be traded or lost for nothing.Thames wouldn’t be part of a championship team.

      BTW: Great post by Stoeten. Waited till 2:20 didn’t see anything. Insightful,Disagree with some of it ( you expected something else LOL) but well thought out.

  98. Apparently Justin Upton is going to be traded for an ace…kind of a crazy suggestion, but maybe Romero is on his way out, which explains AA’s thirst for starting pitchers.

    • Three way trade????

      Cliff Lee to Diamondbacks, Upton to Toronto, prospects to Philly?

      • Maybe sub Garza in for Lee.

      • The word here in the Philadelphia area is the only reason Lee hasn’t been dealt is Phila won’t eat any of Lee’s money and wants top prospects….Maybe as the 3rd part of a deal – Toronto eats $6 mil for next 3 years with Gose and a Lansing kid – Arizona gets Lee at $18 mil a year, Jays get Upton……….That could work

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