The 4 PM ET deadline is closing in on us, and rather than sit here and wait for something to happen, then start a new post when it does, write as little detail as I possibly can, the “MORE FORTHCOMING” and the scramble to not take 45 damn minutes to write up my thoughts, I’m thinking, why not just live blog the details as they start flyin’. Join me, won’t you?

4:31 PM: That really appears to be it. I know it’s going to be a disappointing way to end a trading period where it looked as though the Jays would have some real prospect capital to expend in order to strengthen the core of their club at the expense of just a few of the vast riches they possess in the low minors, but as we can see, not only were they unable to come to an agreement for someone like Matt Garza or Josh Johnson, but nobody really could. There were no Cliff Lee-like deals made by anybody, and while I’m sure that’s not going to be satisfactory to a whole lot of fans who expected something big, it has to be at least a little bit heartening that no other GM in the game was willing to pull off the kind of moves we expected AA to execute either.

The club has officially announced, via Twitter, the roster moves detailed below, which puts an official stamp on the end of business today. But let’s not forget that there is still the possibility for some August deals to be done– as the Jays did last year, acquiring Kelly Johnson for Aaron Hill and John McDonald.

Another thing we shouldn’t forget is that we’re not operating from the same pool of knowledge as clubs are. For example, Ken Rosenthal tweets that the Rangers ended up turning their interest to Ryan Dempster because they weren’t comfortable with the medicals they saw on Matt Garza. Obviously that kind of thing would have been a concern to the Jays as well, so… it’s hard to kill them for not going there, even though I’m sure lots of fans will insist on doing so.

We’re about to record a special, post-deadline edition of the Getting Blanked Podcast, so stay tuned for that. Afterwards, we’ll be back to our regularly scheduled programming, I guess.

What a letdown!

4:12 PM: Here it comes: According to a tweet from Shi Davidi of the Rogers-owned Sportsnet, the Rogers-owned Toronto Blue Jays have stood pat on the final day of non-waiver wheeling and dealing, and have confirmed the earlier roster moves, sending Joel Carreno and Evan Crawford back to the minors, and calling up Moises Sierra and adding Steve Delabar to the active roster in order to take their places. Welp, that was fun…

4:10 PM: Yes indeed, it’s quiet. Barring a late announcement, Brendan Kennedy tweets, it looks like the Jays did nothing. Again, not the most emphatic thing I’ve ever heard.

4:07 PM: Wilner and Griffin each tweet that things appear pretty quiet for the Jays as the deadline passes. Alex Anthopoulos will provide an update later today. Griffin specifically says that it’s quiet “re: Garza.” Hmmm. Not exactly the most emphatic “no deals” tweets I’ve ever read…

4:05 PM: Morosi tells us that Chase Headley is staying in San Diego, so you can cross another name off of your pip dream list.

4:03 PM: Richard Griffin tweets that the Rangers were relentless in their pursuit of Ryan Dempster… presumably because he can’t get any damn information out of the Jays’ front office, so he’s moved on to looking into other teams. Oh, and Dempster is Canadian or something– maybe that matters?

4:00 PM: The deadline has passed, but as always, there may be deals yet to trickle in. Will the Jays be involved in any? We haven’t been told that they won’t… yet.

3:58 PM: Buster Olney with confidence: “Rangers land Dempster.” Well, OK then. But what of the Jays? WHAT OF THE JAYS???

3:56 PM: Morosi is all over the pipe dream-crushing beat today: he says he hears that Shin-Soo Choo won’t be leaving Cleveland, which sucks, because I want Choo so bad it’s driving me mad, it’s driving me mad.

3:54 PM: The Knobler goes a-Knoblin’ on the A’s shortstop thing as well, tweeting specifically about the Jays’ man, saying that “I’m told no chance on Yunel, either.” OK then.

3:52 PM: Not that I really put too much into any of these rumblings, but according to a tweet from Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle, the A’s appear to not be doing anything to resolve their issues at shortstop, which means no Yunel Escobar for them. Again, like that was ever going to happen. Meanwhile, it sounds like the Yankees might be getting closer to acquiring Ryan Dempster, because… of course they are.

3:47 PM: Jonathan Broxton has been dealt from the Royals to the Reds– let’s see how other clubs actually value relievers, huh? (Albeit one who will be a free agent this winter.) Meanwhile, Jon Morosi tweets that Josh Johnson won’t be traded by the Marlins, which… is dumb of them, if you ask me, but whatever… guess that dream is dead.

3:40 PM: As has been pointed out in the comments, despite the fact that we know Moises Sierra is on his way to the Jays, the club hasn’t made it official yet. Shi Davidi tweets that Evan Crawford and Joel Carreno are heading down in order to make room for Sierra and Steve Delabar, who the Jays acquired last night for Eric Thames. But the fact that nothing has been officially announced suggests that they’re still waiting for more potential moves, as we head towards 4 o’clock. It doesn’t hurt to wait and prevent multiple press releases, if there happens to be something else to be announced.

3:35 PM: The Pirates, it’s relevant to note, have picked up Gaby Sanchez. Getting Blanked has the details on the now-former Marlin, who– some suggested– is there in part as insurance for Travis Snider, though… it’s not like the Pirates can’t use all the offence they can get their hands on.

3:30 PM: It’s very quiet as far as Jays rumours go, except for the Garza stuff that we’ve heard about all day, which is pretty much exactly what you’d expect, isn’t it? In these situations we’ll usually at least get word from someone on the Jays’ beat if the club has decided to pack it in and that they’re done wheeling and dealing, and since we still haven’t heard anything yet, I have no choice to believe that something may still happen…


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Comments (234)

  1. come on AA

    • Much as I’d love something exciting to happen, who really cares? This season is done for barring a miracle well beyond what one pitcher or bat could bring. Beyond that hopefully Gose starts looking amazing and hopefully we see enough of our pitchers to start guessing at a rotation for next year…

  2. Still no official word on the Sierra call-up either, which seems odd. If the truth is out there via Thames may as well just acknowledge that and the corresponding moves. Must be something still with potential?

    • Doesn’t necessarily mean something is cooking. There’s really no benefit to making it official before 4 PM and there’s no harm in making it official after 4 PM.

  3. It’s not really a live blog unless it updates automatically, no?

  4. It’s over once you hear the roster move on Sierra.

  5. Daddy wants an Upton jersey

  6. With as slow as it’s been today, I half-expect us to find out at 3:59 that AA has orchestrated a 7-team trade involving 25 players…

  7. The fact that the Sierra move has not been officially announced, and the fact that AA hasn’t yet spoken to the media about the Thames and Snider trades suggests to me that he still has a few other trades cooking. Let’s hope!

    • I couldn’t agree more. Something has to be brewing

    • He sure as hell is trying.

      Here’s hoping he has a massive deal already done, but doesn’t want it announced until after the deadline so his competitors can react.

  8. The reporters on the jays beat are fucking useless. Especially Griffin. They never break anything. Davidi will occasionally report a call up or something like that. Generally, they dont know anything until the team announces it or the US reporters find out.

    • Because the Jays don’t talk to the local reporters the way some teams in other towns talk to theirs.

    • Because outside of feeding Barry Davis the latest player on the redeye from Vegas, the front office is incredibly tight-lipped. Leaks would come from the other side, if any.

  9. neeeeeeeeeeeejaaa AA

  10. When did AA abandon the ‘high upside’ philosophy and ‘we need impact players at every position to compete in this division’?

    Who exactly out of Happ, Lyon, Carpenter, Delabar and Lincoln is high upside? NOTE: Relievers have limited upside unless you are Mariano Rivera.

    • Happ – Upside is that he is a good starter
      Lyon – Bullpen help which is sorely needed
      Carpenter – Upside is that he turns out to be a good reliever
      Delabar – Bullpen help which is sorely needed
      Lincoln – Upside is that he is a starter or lights-out 8th inning guy with Santos


    • You still need quality relievers to compete. It’s not like they traded Bautista for 2 relievers. I think the argument could also be made that Lincoln is high upside.

      • Dear G-UNIT.
        Grab a dictionary. Mariano Rivera would actually be the OPPOSITE of somebody with a high upside. Just so we’re all on teh same page here.
        Somebody Smart Than You

  11. There’s no way AA is ready to throw away this season and then try sell us on another rebuild year. I sense something big’s about to happen.

  12. The jays just re-acquired me for E5. I’ve been in Australia. You may have even heard about me in the news:

    ‘Maybe the ineffective #5 starter ate your baby’

  13. Bowden is saying Dempster’s gone to the Yankees.

  14. It’s not like they gave up high upside players to get these guys.

  15. I’ve got better things to worry about then the trade deadline. Like trying to find a sturdy bandwagon to jump onto for the rest of the season.

  16. I have been impressed that AA seems no longer to believe that he can buy a bullpen. That has not worked out at all. I think Toronto fans are idiots for complaining about the bullpen all season and not being thrilled at getting a whole new one for a reasonable cost and saving a ton of money to maybe go and buy a starter this off-season.

    A B pitching prospect, Cordero, an unused utility player, Thames, some other mid-level prospects and the second coming of Jesus Christ in Snider are all we gave up. By the way I am Jewish and really do not think Jesus is coming back…

    • It’s not only that buying entire bullpens made that a potential weakness every year, it’s that there are no more compensation picks to make the ulcers worthwhile.

      In the new environment, the volatility of relief pitching peformance will put a premium on not just controllable relievers, but optionable ones, so that you can have 12 pieces to fill 8 spots and deal with the inconsistency in part that way.

  17. Quick, someone call AA and ask if he’s busy right now.

  18. Sooooo…. Nothing’s happening.

  19. +1 for the Beatles reference, Stoeten.

  20. Its over. No more trades folks. Throw in the towel on this season

  21. Dempster to rangers

  22. It’s 4 o’clock. Do you know where your GM is?

  23. Rangers get dempster. Meh, always thought he was overrated and product of NL offenses.

    • Are NL offenses really that bad? It always seemed to me that Dempster made a career facing some of the better hitters of the NL Central. Guys like Pujols, Holliday, Braun, Fielder, Votto, Bruce, Berkman, made the NL Central at least a better hitting division than perhaps the NL West and most of the NL East. Should be interesting to see how he fares pitching at Arlington.

  24. I love the reference to sports writers at this moement.. like at 3:58 some GM is going to put another on hold and yell at his sectretary: “Goddammit woman – get me Jon Morisi, I’ve only gotta minute!”

  25. If it can’t be to the Jays, I’m glad Dempster went to the Rangers over the Yanks.

  26. So, that’s it I guess?

    Meh. Was hoping to see a deal for a starter or an impact player. Guess nothing was worth doing..

  27. “We haven’t been told that they won’t… yet.”


  28. Bueller?

  29. I’m glad that’s over. Now we can get back to the tepid mediocrity that is the 2012 Toronto Blue Jays.

  30. Morosi with some solid tweets”

    Chase Headley Stays.

    Choo expected to remain with Indians.

    Josh Johnson will not be traded.

    Wow can’t believe that guy gets paid as an INSIDER.

  31. sadness rains

  32. So that’s it, hun? Clearing out a bunch of assets for a whack of relief arms (that could be picked up off the scrap heap every off-season for nothing). Well done AA. This year, you get an E.

    • A bunch of assets. How did they positively contribute rob the Jays this season?

    • a) The trades he did cannot be properly evaluated for years to come

      b) He signed EE to a great looking deal

      c) Who are you again?

      • Ya. I’m just a guy. And you’re right. I assume AA knows what he’s doing. I think I’m still just in mourning over Travis Snider.

  33. Sooo whats the deal with garza??

  34. “@RGriffinStar: Deadline has arrived and no news from Jays re Garza. AA will update later today. ”

    So… maybe we did…? Can you say PLAY-…

    “@Wilnerness590 Trade deadline passed 5 minutes ago – appears as though nothing went down as far as #BlueJays are concerned. #Jays”

    …-OOooffffs. :(

  35. Morosi:

    AA likely interested in cheese sandwich.

  36. Downtown folks – there is a Boxer running loose at King + Blue Jays Way. No word if it spooks easily. Try coaxing…

  37. …still no official word from Camp AA? maybe there’s still something on the go.

  38. Heyman confirms Garza not traded.

  39. “Hmmm. Not exactly the most emphatic “no deals” tweets I’ve ever read…”


  40. What am I missing, folks?

    Jays send down 2 players, call up 1. Bautista off the DL?

  41. Sierra call-up officially announced. It is over.

  42. fuck never mind.

  43. This whole day was a waste of time especially if crow closes for KC and I wasted a roster move on holland…… If the jays didn’t have another move the Snider trade makes no sense why not hold on to him and make a move like this is offseason

    • Because if Snider bottomed out and played like shit they would have gotten less than what they got for him.

  44. think we’re underestimating what AA has done when we say he’s done nothing

    he retooled the bullpen that lost Frasor and Perez to injury and Villa to rotation

    he needed to do it at some point…he chose to do it now for prospects instead of offseason for $$

    • He did nothing that couldn’t have been done in the off season, unless he has some misguided belief that this team is good enough right now to compete for the playoffs in 2012 (note: it is not)

      • disagree. controllable relievers cost a lot of cash in the offseason. and he had a depleted staff that needs the extra late inning support the new bullpen will provide. these were moves for now and for next year.

        • You’re making an assumption that any of these guys (the BEST of whom is likely Happ) are worth much of anything…

          I see 5 middle relievers, at least one of whom won’t be here next year, one who might never make the majors and nobody with anything but a mediocre track record.

  45. Looks like this is the team to finish the year.

  46. Interesting deadline. Looks like other teams didn’t think Garza was worth what they were asking right now.

  47. Alright, now put everyone on revocable waivers and let’s do it all again next month!

  48. are you kiddin me? absolute nothing?

    those 2 trades are the only things he’s done at all this year?

    completely lousy. D minus.

    all this did was open up more holes in the lineup and took away one of the only things worth watching for the rest of the season (snider and whether he could hack it).

    they’re seriously going to run gose/davis/sierra out to LF for the rest of the season. nice. blech.

    • If it turns out the Upton/Garza discussions started off with something like “OK, we went Lawrie or no deal”, is it still a bust?
      I mean, trades aren’t worth making just for the sake of making a trade

      • Yeah, exactly Matt. It’s a bummer we didn’t see some awesome, exciting move.

        But AA can’t force other teams to take reasonable deals for guys like Garza or Johnson. If the price was insane, then what can you do?

      • Then explain either of the 2 trades that happened last night…

  49. I’m guessing the price for starting pitchers with more than 1 year of control was just too high for anyone.

    • But the price was too high this offseason too.

      We don’t give pitchers big contracts, so FA is not an option
      We don’t want to give up what is necessary, so a trade is not an option

      Where are we ever going to get our ace? Wait 4 years and pray that one of the Lansing boys puts it all together?

  50. I’d be interested to know if they were actually close on anything today.

  51. Wow, very underwhelming. AA was saying in the offseason how he prefers to make big acquisitions at the trade deadline. I sure as hell didnt see any.

    • Wrong. He said he’d prefer to make acquisitions at the deadline over over-paying for free agents in the winter. You can’t honestly think that just because he prefers that strategy that he absolutely 100% has to make a huge splash at the deadline.

  52. underwhelming for sure – but you can’t force another team to make a deal that you can live with.

    Just goes to show that at some point this team will need to sign a free agent though.

    All the talk in the offseason was that AA prefered the trade market because he would get control. That didn’t pan out (and I’m not bitching – just stating that we didn’t make an improvement).

    The same excuse probably wont work next winter though. If you’re not going to use your prospects to significantly improve the roster then you had better be prepared to take on some financial risk.

    Still – some of the more intriguing deals out there will still be available in the off season – ie. Upton etc.

    • I do think you’ll see the Jays go that way this winter. Obviously i can’t say for certain but with the added allure of the 2nd wild card there’s certainly going to be more competition for the fewer players available and that just might make AA rethink the value in a trade vs spending cash.

      • Isn’t that what we all said over the summer. Then balked at the price for Latos, Gio etc?

        • Who knows what they were asking from the Jays? That said, I am sure AA is disappointed he couldn’t really make a bigger upgrade as he said going back to last winter that this was the period he was targeting to make the most use of his prospects. I thought it strange for the very reasons we’ve seen, high demand = high costs. Money would have been better spent on a starter imo than Frasor and Coco and I’ve said that since spring training.

      • You could be right… I just think that the front office can’t have it both ways.

        You can’t say that you won’t sign free agents because you can’t get value – and then turn around and not trade prospects to land roster players because you can’t get value.

        Loads of teams leverage both of those avenues to improve their clubs and while I’m all for hoarding young talent and creating a crazy awesome team, how long to you wait to plug the current holes – and worse at what point do you have new roster holes created by regression or declining skills in guys like Bautista, EE etc.

    • Agreed. You can’t abstain from the free agent market because of market prices and say we will build through trades… only to balk at the market price. The market price is the market price for a reason. Not saying that I wanted the jays to match the prices that were out there. But it sure looks like the only way we will be able to obtainthe elite talent is by buying low on guys like Encarnacion, Bautista and Rasmus and hoping that our rediculous luke with getting them to reach their potential continues.

  53. no matter what, it seems odd that they traded both young LF options with no proven internal help

  54. Where are my playoffs?

  55. I think everyone is sooo dissapointed because of the thinking that if Thames ANS Snider had been traded there had to be something BIG (not just something) already almost nailed down.

  56. Well shitski. I say we all go throw rocks at Griffin for the Garza story yesterday.

  57. well at least the bullpen next year looks good:

    Oliver (if he doesn’t retire)

    decent chance Frasor and Villanueva get resigned imo. and then there’s the possibility of Cecil getting moved back there too

  58. no free agent signing, no trades of any real merit, wtf is this?

    this team has not been improved over the 2010 version. its instead swapped a position of pitching strength for one of positional strength. the rotation is going the opposite direction of the fielding with 2-3 holes (1B, 2B and LF) still left unfilled on top of that. we’ve had a hole at 1B/2B and LF for what, 2-3 years minimum now? what have they actually done to address this? there is nothing in the minors to fill 2 of those holes…and the starting rotation is getting weaker every year.

    the 2010 starting rotation of Marcum Morrow Romero (2010 version) Cecil (2010 version) was way better than this morrow romero alvarez bandaid bandaid.

    at this point we’ve basically got 1 pitcher of high calibre. the rest is a shit show of unreliability.

    AA had a team that was on the verge of a breakout. he’s taking that and muddling around for 2 years now and seems to have lost direction or a concrete plan.

    • You’re basing this all on his failure to make an impact trade at the deadline?

      Seems shortsighted…

      • basing it on that you say?

        hardly. i’m basing it on a comparison over 2 years…an inability to address 2-3 fielding position holes over that span and 1-2 rotation spots as well.

        i’m basing it on making no free agent signings, missing out on darvish, no trades of real high value this year AND worst:

        talking out both sides of his mouth. its getting a bit burke-y in here.

        AA has started making a lot of excuses over the last year that he wasn’t going to take one approach in order to take another, (ie no free agent in order to improve by trade) then making excuses for not getting it done that way either.

        NOW…we’ll hear about how the team is going to be improved through developing the minors exclusively.

        and now he’ll have backed himself into a real corner..because we have nothing to fill the 1B/LF hole….and we can see based on how jenkins / draybek et all faired that 1/10 pitching prospects probably gives you what you need. do we have enough prospects to fill the gap? hardly.

        we don’t even know if romero is going to sort it out. we’ve got a rotation that needs to be bolstered by 2 arms minimum. you’re going to need to have 15-20 prospects to find something to fill that.

        and how many years are they away?? by the time they get here we’ll have new problems – maybe baustista or EE drops off, maybe Escobar’s defense isn’t enough to make him valuable, maybe romero is toast…

        its starting to look like an incomplete plan that had a 2 year gap in it that turned out to be costly. so far it looks like its .500 teams from here to eternity. not easy to do, but not good enough either.

        • I suppose I should give you a reason why I don’t agree with most of this horsehit.

          But I won’t.

          • you guys that blindly call horseshit should put a contending year down on the table then my friends.

            tell us when this belief you hold so dear that there is a plan and that its on course will pay dividends.

            you could even be right.

    • Are those band aids you’re referring to Laffey and Villanueva? The two best pitchers they have at the moment?

      • keep believing that until the small sample size catches up to laffey and villian shows again that he can give you great relief and can give you quality starts…but can’t give you a full season.

        believe me…i like the CV. he’s like the most dependable guy short of jansen. and I like Perez for the same reason (think he was hurt for longer than we know of).

        but we need STARTERS. and full on electric stuff, velocity, and mental toughness. we need 2010 version romeros. we need at minimum Morrows and Romeros. we do NOT need laffeys except as a #5.

        • Yes; the Jays need starters, but they don’t grow on trees. There will be a time when it’s worth overpaying, as typically one must, for starters, but it’s not here yet.

          When the Jays have 6-7 players having career years at the same time, then it will absolutely be worth picking up one or two starters partway through the season. Unfortunately, nothing you do can make that happen; you simply have to get the players with the most potential you can, wait, and hope. That’s how almost everyone wins championships.

    • Really? the roster hasn’t improved since 2010?
      Here’s what the roster looked like on opening day:

      I know 2010 was two years ago and we all seem to have the memory of a goldfish nowadays, but to claim the team hasn’t been improved neglects AA bringing in Rasmus, Escobar, Lawrie and Johnson.


        not roster.

        get some glasses.

        • “AA bringing in Rasmus, Escobar, Lawrie and Johnson.”

          in the same time losing Marcum, so far the johnson/hill deal is kinda even wouldn’t you admit? and now, we’ve incurried delay such that Romero is now struggling and the bubble has burst on:


          and whatever those other 2 highly toted pitchers were that are now struggling.

          one more year of grace for gose..but if he doesn’t start hitting you risk finding out that that prospect isn’t a WS level player either…

          • Maybe next time when you say: “this team has not been improved over the 2010 version.” you should be more clear that you’re only talking about the players who don’t fit your narrative.

            By the way, what’s a WS level player? Is that like… Nick Punto or more like Pat Burrell?

            I really don’t know how anyone can argue, even with the lateral moves like Buck to Arencibia that this team hasn’t improved. It’s far more talented, with a lot more potential than 2 years ago.

          • “Maybe next time when you say: “this team has not been improved over the 2010 version.” you should be more clear that you’re only talking about the players who don’t fit your narrative.

            By the way, what’s a WS level player? Is that like… Nick Punto or more like Pat Burrell?

            I really don’t know how anyone can argue, even with the lateral moves like Buck to Arencibia that this team hasn’t improved. It’s far more talented, with a lot more potential than 2 years ago.”

            oh there’s that word that I predicted – potential.

            great i’m so glad that we’ve been improving ‘potential’ over the last 2-3 years…without any improvement in the overall results. what does potential mean when there is decline at the same time? what is the advantage of improved ‘potential’ in escobar when this year the results don’t play out and when in 2011 cecil fell off?

            also please explain to me the obvious aspects that I left out of my narrative that are counter to my argument. you guys are great at arguing against a point without any concrete evidence.

    • Who is the one pitcher of high quality?

      Morrow seemed like he turned a corner, but who knows
      Romero has been the worst on the staff this year

    • “this team has not been improved over the 2010 version”


      “AA had a team that was on the verge of a breakout”


      There were so many fucking garbage comments today, but yours was such a steaming pile of shit I couldn’t let your bullshit go by unchallenged. Congratulations, douche.

      • and great challenge you’ve put up. good facts, good counter arguments.

        show me some evidence that the 2012 team is better then the 2010 team. you don’t have a prayer!

        you’re going to run into a problem when you look at comparing the rotation stats and results.

        and if you think JPA is any better than Buck, you’re crazy.

        you’re also going to have a problem in that Hill/Johnson are not different enough..and lastly that Gonzalez gave quite good value in that year.

        what you’re going to come up with is some vague notions of potential ‘ceiling’ on players now vs. then…which is not concrete and doesn’t amount to anything in the end result – ie a .500 team both years.

        maybe you like the ‘look’ of the 2012 better?

        that’s the uniforms buddy. maybe you didn’t like some of the 2010 facial hair. me too buddy, me too…

  59. Did any of you naysayers note that the biggest need the Jays have right now is pitching? And that’s what they got. Between Oliver, Lincoln, and Janssen they can slam the door shut by the 7th just like the good old world series days. Add Happ, Lyon and Delabar and maybe they can do it from the 6th

    • STARTING pitching. Even though our bullpen has be terrible this year I care about next year, Bullpens are way easier to fill out over the offseason and the eratic nature of bullpens make is a bit of a crap shoot regardless. Just ask the Tampa Rays

      • So you think the jays should keep buying guys like Cordero, F. Francisco, and Rauch like the last couple years? They don’t all turn out to be Oliver’s

    • When your starting pitching throws 100 pitches in 3 innings, you ruin the health of the bullpen.

    • Yeah, okay. But when our number 1 guy, and spin the wheel of pitchers for whoever is number 2 this week, give up 7 runs or so in the first couple of frames, what good is our “slam the door” bullpen, when the door has already been slammed in the Jays’ faces? We can’t depend on multiple 3 run homers to bail us out every time.


      we don’t need another wizard-behind-the-curtain dazzle-me-thunder-superpen garbage excuse.

      we need legit starters. we’ve been lacking 2 arms since we got rid of Halladay and Marcum. They haven’t been replaced. not even close.

      • The difference in WHIP between Morrow+Laffey+Villanueva 2012 and Halladay+Marcum 2008 is less than 1 baserunner per 6 innings. That’s not not even close.

        When you argue with hyperbole, it’s just too easy to poke holes in your reasoning.

  60. I guess there was nothing the Jays wanted. I hope the team plays hard and stays in it till the end. That will show management that they can play and that they are close. It will be a sure sign of what this franchise wants to do in the future. I believe this off season will be the make or break for AA. The reason why I say this is that I feel Jose Bautista is going to go to management and ask what the future is. This is playing out to be Roy Halladay part 2.

    • I don;t think they looked at the menu and said “im not hungry” I think they looked at the prices and said shit, my credit card doesn’t have a high enough limit to pay for a nything but a starter salad.

      • Couldn’t agree more. Really starting to think the old wives tale that Rogers won’t spend to make this team better isn’t an old wives tale at all. For the amount of time those crooks have turned me upside down and shaken my TV and Internet out of me, they should be spending dolla-dolla bills like the Dodgers.

  61. I dont know what was out there but I think this trade deadline was a huge failure for AA and the jays. They didnt get the #2 or 3 starter they needed. Nor did they get a legit bat in LF or 1B/DH. Just added some bullpen pieces which is fine but is not going to substantially improve the team.

    • If Im Bautista I’m looking around and going “what the fuck is going on?”

      • Exactly. I am telling you the guy is going to be talking this offseason. He wants a ring!

      • yeah who can blame him. he signed a friendly contract given his value and gives them %100 every day..even with a slow start. they said they’d continue to improve the team.

        they’ve made improvements but not at a rate beyond replacement. for every improvement its been too slow and has been countered by a new weakness.

        add lawrie, lose marcum, add rasmus, lose halladay.

        you have to find a way to upgrade. if not within a season then within a concrete plan – which is what we were all sold on.

        but 2 years later this plan seems spotty. the roadmap is muddled and unclear. where the eff are they going to conjure 2-3 outfielders AND 1-2 starting pitching?

        you cannot tell me that they did not intend to compete in 2013 now. that’s B.S. how are they going to upgrade FIVE whole positions in the off season??

        they should have at minimum brought the team to within 2-3 positions this year of a contending team. 5 positions is probably too much to even expect the 2013 team to fill between prospects/trades and free agents.

      • Yes. AA personally hired hitmen to take out 3 starting pitchers. I read about it on MLB Trade Rumors.

    • Why do they need another legit bat? They have the best run producing of fence in baseball

      • “why do they need another legit bat?” Because some Jays fans exist in a vacuum blissfully unaware of just how bad many teams in this league are.

        • morons…its not just the BAT…its the position. Running Davis or whomever the crap out in LF is not just a reduced offence…it is a reduced defence.

          they don’t even have a good defence option currently. you Cannot run gose out there. thats not a weak bat…that is like running your pitcher out to bat..the guy is an absolute instant out.

      • Most of that production comes from EE’s career year, if he drops to somewhere in between this year and the past, the jays production goes down

      • Yeah I saw it in the last two games.

  62. Maybe they just didn’t like what they saw from Garza and decided not to pull the trigger on a deal.

  63. Well nothin spectactular but they did rebuild the bullpen in the past couple of weeks which was sorely needed. Also got a couple of decent players comin back shortly in Bautista and Morrow. What team out there wouldnt take those two in august? Jays are surely stronger after today as long as the injury bug goes away.

  64. 2012: The year of the treadmill.

  65. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t the Cardinals trade for only a few bullpen pieces last year?

  66. Welp, I guess that’s that. Stand Pat Gillick…er…Alex, thinks the Jays are good enough to make a run? To the basement?

  67. Attention class, I am your substitute reliever Mr. Delabar. I will be with you until the end of the season or until the grey matter and metal holding my fragile elbow together blow apart. Don’t expect much, the odd strikeout, and the more-than-occasional HR
    You may have been expecting Mr. Garza, but he had an unfortunate facial hair incident that I cannot speak of.

  68. Definitely an interesting month for the Jays. Considering the deals AA made don’t look to the push the Jays forward in a big way this year the players we gave up for the pen guys should make for some interesting watching over the next couple of years. Still I’d say the Jays are at least better for the rest of the season than they were before the deals at least on paper. The pen being the biggest problem certainly looks better on paper but we’ve said that in 2011 and at the beginning of this season. Lets hope AA’s pen jinx doesn’t continue.

  69. again.. who would you rather have, snider or rasmus? AA upgraded. enough said. now fuck off all you whining fuckheads and let go of yer dick so some blood can get into that thick skull of yours.

  70. Not that I’m complaining or anything, but where has the DJF podcast been? Its not that the Jays are the only team I give a fuck about but… actually ya, that’s it. More DJF or I’m asking for my money back!

  71. SOOOOOOOOOO glad AA stayed out of the trade market. Trades and FA signings are NO WAY to build a winning ball club. SANDWICH PICKS BABY!!!!!!

    Like did this clown honestly waste his entire day working the phones and wind up with ____ all? Can’t wait for company men Shi and Lil’ Mikey Wilner to drop the “Bautista and Morrow coming off the DL hugely bolsters the team, moreso than an acquisition” line.

    AA should be embarassed at what he let slip through his fingers this season due to flat out inactivity. Think of the man hours wasted recalling idiots like Crawford and Coello over and over and over. Think of the abject idiocy of at any point having delusions of McGowan throwing a pitch for this team. Reminds me of the moron in your fantasy league who fills the waiver wire with transactions late in the season while way out of it. What an inconvenience for him to have a great offense. Really slows up the full-on rebuild narrative that could’ve bought him a decade more of time from the fans.

    Feel the heat AA. You’ve showed absolutely zero sack over the past season. Shameful.


  72. these comments are ridiculous. does everyone think that controllable top of the rotation starting pitchers are easy and affordable to get? did people really expect AA to swing a trade for garza or johnson? no one ended up acquiring those two guys and there are a bunch of teams that needed them more than us (in terms of “win-now” teams). those teams would be willing to pay more for them and even THEY didn’t land them. to me – and to every other human with 3 fucking brain cells – this seems to indicate that prices were very high.

    the deals that AA made are reflective of the fact that this year is fucked up beyond all recognition. we’re not going to sneak in to the playoffs with the rotation we currently have considering (a) the injuries and (b) underperformance of key pitchers.

    would the team be better if we went out and acquired lee, johnson, garza and dempster? of course. but that doesn’t mean it’s possible. and in order to compete this year we literally need two or three starting pitchers (plus a fucking miracle recovery from romero).

    setting all of that aside – based on the late announcements RE optioning crawford and carreno / recalling sierra, it’s pretty clear that AA would have made some additional moves if he could get his dance partners on the floor. but he couldn’t. them’s the breaks.

    now everyone shut the fuck up. daddy’s got a headache.

    • Thanks for posting something with some actual rational thought put into it.

    • +1

    • i don’t care HOW easy or HOW hard starters are to get. You HAVE to get them. are you that blind?? ‘oh…its expensive…but I need them to win a WS. oh well…too expensive’.

      if you don’t find a way you don’t win. either you develop them or you trade for them or you sign them as a FA. but you HAVE to DO something.

      what you don’t do is pull the wool over the fanbase eye and say everything is ramping up but then embark on a system of replacement that fields a .500 team every single year.

      • “i don’t care HOW easy or HOW hard starters are to get. You HAVE to get them”

        Sorry, but that’s stupid.

      • I never said that you didn’t need good starting pitching. my response was to the armchair GMs out in leaf nation who think that it always makes sense to trade a stable of prospects for aging, big-money talent. people think it’s so easy to acquire key pieces and it isn’t.

        the only way for non-giant baseball markets to compete is to be thrifty with FA signings, complete smart trades for controllable players with upside and develop players through the draft.

        gee – does that sound like a familiar strategy?

        • NO.

          that’s not what anyone is saying.

          they are saying that when its only money, not trading good prospects, maybe you dip your toe once in a while…once in 3 years maybe? jeezuz. what FA have they signed? nothing of merit.

          and maybe you make a trade here or there.

          all in reasonable measure. NOT like the leafs AT ALL.

          but none of this has happened. and so its going on 3 years with no clear plan and no clear results-based improvement and large holes in the roster.

      • Basically this. The teams that seemed to be chasing starters already have top of the line rotations or at least bonefide aces (Angels, Rangers, Yankees, Dodgers) All those teams could afford to wait it out and still win a championship this year and beyond.

        The Jays have no ace and a pretty terrible rotation, they need to make a move to improve.

        • exactly. someone who gets it.

          how the eff do you other guys think we will ever be in the position that the angels or rangers are in?

          these teams they guard their prospects, they make smart trades, and they spend when called for.

          look at what the effin’ rangers have done this year.

          you know…and here obviously i’m whistling dixie and could be wrong..but really…some of what the rangers did…that could have been the jays.

          we could have signed darvish, and it just cost money.

          give me a break on the $$ argument. have you looked at attendance? its like 39K every game! and all the jays gear around town? gawd.

          and then maybe we’d have had a slightly better record. i’m sure Darvish alone would have been worth another handful of wins….could it be the 4 we’re behind the angels and A’s? yeah maybe.

          and then whose to say we couldn’t have afforded to part with slightly more in the prospect department and landed another high arm or field/bat?

          i’m not convinced that we could not have been well positioned to make a nice wildcard run this year that would carry over with contracts to 2013 that would have put us in a good position still to contend for WS in 2013 2014 etc.

          • the Jays aren’t a big revenue team. The Rangers have a $120MM+ payroll. The Angels have a $150MM+ payroll. fucking deal with it.

            the Jays can’t (or won’t) spend that kind of money until revenues catch up. They are currently averaging 27K fans per game (20th in the league).

            saying things like “we could have signed Darvish, and it just cost money” is silly. No one knows what the Jays bid. I believe that they bid and they bid a price that they were comfortable paying. But doling out $100MM for FAs doesn’t always work out – especially for unproven ones like Darvish.

            but what does it matter, it’s not your money, is it?

            i’m through answering to someone who says “have you looked at attendance? its like 39K every game! and all the jays gear around town? gawd.”

            the sad truth is that you’re a moron. and as much as i’m doing god’s work by trying to educate you, it’s not worth it.

      • I don’t care how easy or how hard it is, but you have to learn Estonian by next Wednesday. Seriously, can you really be this fucking stupid?

    • Yes, almost everyone thinks that. Shitty, no?

  73. In the off season AA said he really wanted to make his big trades in season. And…..nothing much happened.

    • no, he said he preferred doing that over over-paying for a free agent. Big difference.

      • yeah, difference being slight-of-hand / talk-out-of-both-sides-of-mouth.

        • Not really. It’s actually a smart way to manage a team. You can be skeptical but so far AA has proven that he prefers the trade market, and he’s put his money where his mouth is by going out and making very ballsy trades to get players he likes. I’m not sure what’s difficult to understand about that.

          • He hasn’t made a ballsy trade yet… that is his problem.
            Rasmus was dealt for relievers
            Morrow was dealt for a reliever
            Esco was dealt for an overachieving SS
            Lawrie was dealt for a mid rotation starter

      • Yes, but he also specifically said he prefers to trading during the season, as opposed to the off season when everyone thinks they’re a contender.

  74. Luckily the trade deadline saves AA from further damaging the team for now. It’s only a matter of time before the entire farm system is gone for #7 starters and middle relievers.

    • I need to hear why the Jays should fire AA?

    • Huh?

      • The guys comment name is “FIRE AA”. I want to hear the explanation.

        • whatever his explanation is, you don’t want to hear it.

        • I think he explained it in his comment. No? I don’t agree with the sentiment, although I too am disappointed with his results of the last two weeks.

      • Ya AA should have sold the farm for Garza so we could watch him go to the dl just as Morrow comes back right? Like Stoet said, we dont have all the info that the Jays do.

    • You’re a fucking idiot. Those #7 starters and middle relievers, had we had them weeks ago, would have saved us from having to watch even shittier pitchers blow starts and leads left right and center until they finally found a few guys internally to stop the bleeding. It’s not that those guys are going to save the franchise, but they’ll prevent shittier players from ruining a season by being forced into roles they should never have been in.

      So basically, fuck right off and never comment on baseball again.


      • I know you’re crushing on AA so I understand why you’re so butthurt. I’m sure he’s real glad you’re valiantly defending his internet honor.

        The Jays aren’t doing anything this year so what is the point of wasting assets on marginal players they could pick up off the scrap heap in the offseason? With these moves they’ll finish ~500 at the bottom of the division and without them they would finish ~500 at the bottom of the division. I’m sorry my standards aren’t so low that I’m content with AA trading anything of value for garbage.

        • you are a waste of electricity and are crushing on minor leaguers. calling major players garbage.what a phallus

  75. Signing elite talent for nothing but money? No thanks AA doesn’t like big contracts. Trade farm assets for elite talent? No thanks AA says they cost too much. AA has figured out the true market inefficiency, middling back of the rotation starters and middle relief pitchers.

    • Not sure if it’s an “inefficiency” if you have to overpay to get it.

      • Not sure you can say he overpaid when you have no clue what the outcome will be of the careers of the prospects he’s dealt. Though I’d suggest if you absolutely do know what the future of all those players holds, that you either send in a resume to every MLB team in the league, or adjust that amazing intuition so that you can win big on the lottery or something.

        • Dude, if nothing else, he paid Travis Snider for a relief pitcher. That’s an overpay. I don’t care about the other kids, but two of them were really recent, really high draft picks. Serious overpay.

  76. I think I would rather have had AA do nothing than the things that he did. I’m just a fan, and I don’t have all of the information. But the moves he made seem counter productive to the improvement of the organization. But ya, I’m just a guy.

  77. David Cooper is DHing and batting cleanup tonight. It’s going to be a long 2 months.

  78. I’d like for anyone to explain the point of trading anything with positive value for shit pitchers. I didn’t want AA to waste assets on a rental during a lost season but at the same time I don’t see the point in acquiring a future dfa candidate in happ.

    • i will take you up on the shit pitcher theory there fuckface. these pitchers arent bad at all.

    • Those “shit pitchers” to which you refer are, for the most part, players that have already proven they can have value at the major league level. That is something that the traded prospects have yet to do and may never do, and with each passing year it become less likely that they ever will. If Snider, for example, hadn’t locked up the LF job with 100% certainty between now and very early next season his value would have been effectively 0. Thames has already torpedoed his own with his sub-average offense and defensive butchery.

      Basically you’re WAY overvaluing prospects and WAY undervaluing reliable, if unspectacular, major league relief pitchers.

      So again, fuck right off and never comment on baseball again.


      • When AA traded relievers and a middling starter for a potential elite player in Rasmus he was regarded as a ninja genius. When he trades a potential elite player in Snider for a single middle reliever I’m just upset cause i overvalue potential. Thanks for that keen insight.

        • Actually the cornerstone of that deal was Edwin Jackson, whom he had acquired for Frasor and a once highly touted prospect. Remember Zach Stewart? He kinda sucks now.

          Oh yeah, and Rasmus had already had a breakout season. Apples and oranges.


          • Yes I mentioned a middling starter in my post. Reading comprehension bro.

            Nowhere have I said prospects should be untouchable. I said it’s dumb to throw them away for marginal players.

            In four seasons of starting Rasmus has managed one great year and three mediocre ones. His value is still largely based on potential. You’ve yet to explain why AA is a genius for trading middling starters and relievers for potential but absolved of all criticism when he trades potential for a single reliever.

          • btw you don’t need to sign your posts.

          • @FIRE AA: I’ll confess, the post signing comment made me laugh.

            But yeah if you wanna talk reading comprehension you can point me to where I ever called these trades “genius”. My point is that you’re placing way too much value on prospects (while still shitting on Rasmus for being mostly potential) and not nearly enough on established, effective MLB players, which very few of these prospects will ever become. If they ever even become “marginal” they’ll be lucky.

            Edwin Jackson may be a middle of the rotation starter, but do you think they grow on trees? And if they do why don’t we have any of them and why do so many teams pay through the nose in one way or another to get them?

            If they Jays didn’t think Snider was going to stick with the club next year, or that he was about to get leap frogged by other players coming up then all his “potential” is of less value.

            Don’t get me wrong, in a vacuum I’d rather have Snider than Lincoln. But teams don’t operate in a vacuum. They have to consider factors like organizational strengths (OF prospects) and weaknesses (pretty much any pitching) as well as positional needs and team control. Not every trade can be for an all-star, but that doesn’t make them bad. Ever think that maybe rival GMs don’t value Snider’s potential as highly as you do? It’s not Playstation where you can just lump a bunch of AAAA players together for Verlander. I won’t even address Thames because his value was probably at it’s highest this off season and has gone nowhere but down. I just consider that trade a wash.

            AA could do some things better, but overall has done more good than bad. Calling for his firing is asinine. Look at how many really bad GMs there are out there, or have been in Toronto for that matter. I think he’s doing just fine.

            Idiot ;)

  79. Can we talk about what a buffoon Gareth Wheeler is on twitter?

  80. It’s tough to criticize a team for not making a deal at a particular time – we don’t know what offers were on the table after all.

    At the same time, Colby Rasmus, more than a year ago now, was the last core piece the team has added (not counting relievers), all while losing a ton of pitching depth.

    That’s not a good year for a GM, even if it’s not because of any of his own actions.

  81. the jays achilles heel of the season has been the pen. guess what got addressed by AA? how the fuck can anyone not say it was needed and now? fuckin wankers and trolls. the jays just got better and it probably saved some of the other guys arms from falling off too. too many idiots have to voice their shit

  82. None of the July moves are bringing us any closer to a championship. The Snider and Thames moves are nothing more than prunning. Too many outfielders, and the class B pitchers will help us in the short term. Keep buying your Blue Jays tickets fans…..please AA

  83. Rogers is laughing all the way to the bank. They’ve done zero to improve the team and are still making money hand over fist.

    Even sadder are the people who are delusional enough to think that AAs doing a good job. We’re a 0.500 team at best and getting worse. It’s a team full of scrubs, with two or three exceptions.

    Just wait until the off season when the few good players we have demand a trade to a contender. Then again, the idiots on here will spin that like they did the Halladay fiasco.

    • no kidding they have an additional 4997 avg attendance per game this year. over last. I would say next year will be the first time in a while they will break 30,000 avg bank on it.

    • Don’t worry once revenue is high enough Rogers will spend money on elite talent as long as they’re willing to take below market contracts that don’t exceed five years. We all know how elite free agents love taking inferior contracts to play in Canada.

  84. AA hasn’t finished his bargain basement hunting yet, as he has not consumated a deal with the Padres – doormats in the NL West. 2nd baseman please

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