Yesterday’s trade deadline may have passed at 4 PM, but that didn’t mean that work was over for Alex Anthopoulos, as he then embarked on a mini press junket, speaking to the Fan 590, TSN radio, and an assemblage of reporters, about the day’s (and previous night’s) dealings and non-dealings.

If he were JP Ricciardi, and I wasn’t worried about diving too deep into the hackneyed “honeymoon is over” meme, I might have labelled this some kind of a “bullshit tour,” but… what he was saying wasn’t really too outlandish or unexpected, even if at least a couple of items struck me as odd.

From the Fan590 Interview

Chatting with Bob McCown and Damien Cox on Prime Time Sports (audio here), Anthopoulos spoke mostly about the deals that went down on Monday night, involving Travis Snider and Eric Thames, as well as the club’s situation in both left field and the bullpen.

At the start of the year, he tells McCown and Cox, in left, “we didn’t really have anybody who took the job and ran with it.”

“It really came down to, you know, Raj Davis wasn’t really a candidate for us because of the season he had for us last year– he had every day at-bats and he didn’t perform. We felt that his best role might be as that fourth outfielder, and get some playing time at all three outfield spots. And really, when you look at the way Eric and Travis both played last season for us, Eric clearly played better than Travis for that short period of time,” he says.

Clearly? OK, sure if you look at their overall offensive numbers– completely ignoring Thames’ butchery on defence, the fact that Snider performed about as well at the plate in 2010 as Thames, and that Thames’ hitting was buoyed in 2012 by a couple of unexpectedly hot months– I guess you can say that? Maybe?

“That’s not to say which one’s going to have a longer career or make more All-Star teams or anything like that at all,” he continues, implying that, yeah, Snider had the better pedigree and the greater potential, but, you know, we decided to do this one on 2011-based offensive merit alone– just like they did by calling up Anthony Gose ahead of Snider, amiright?

“Even in Spring Training, from a performance standpoint, if you look at the numbers, Eric had a stronger Spring Training,” Anthopoulos continues. Because, y’know, they didn’t exactly tell us that spring stats shouldn’t be looked at, back when, y’know, it served them to say so.

“But Travis showed promise, and he had to work on some things, and he finally started to find it a little bit with the extended time in Las Vegas, but he did miss time again with his wrist.”

This last bit, I think, is where you get a hint of how Anthopoulos thinks of Snider as a bigger risk than a lot of fans have been willing to believe in the wake of this trade.

In this vein, he later says of Snider that “it was going to come down to, what’s the bat ultimately going to be?”

He continues, but– and this is entirely just my spitballin’– seems to catch himself in time to move away from any critique of the player he just dealt.

“I can’t tell you that I know what it’s going to be, but it wasn’t so much caught up in that, it was more we had a need. We had a need in the bullpen, and if Travis was the guy they had to have– and that was a discussion that we had– if it made our team better, that was what we had to do.”

He goes on to say that ”I don’t think I would have told you before the season that I expected to trade Travis Snider,” but it happened because that’s what got them Lincoln, who had appeal because entering a new mode of thinking in terms of finding relievers has “always been on our radar a little bit, long term.”

“The first two years– my first two off-seasons in this jobs– in terms of signing free agent relievers, there was a lot of things that went into it. One, obviously, you’re looking for guys that can help your team. The second component was that we knew we were rebuilding the franchise, and at some points we obviously made some moves to take a step back, and we looked for relievers that could help the club, but also could create some kind of asset value for us.”

“I’m finding more and more, as our team is transitioning to a contending team, the bullpen obviously is becoming more important,” he says, hopefully not– but probably– putting too much stock in the one-time in-season failures of the relief corp. he cobbled together (to much acclaim, you might remember) this past winter.

“The depth of the bullpen is so important– the reason being, because if you’re going to be a contending team, you’re probably going to have a lead most nights, and you can’t go to the same two or three relievers, and you’re going to need to be five or six deep, one way or the other. And if you’re not, you’re going to be going to the same two or three guys, and you’re going to end up wearing them out. So, as we’re moving in that direction we needed to make the bullpen as deep as we could make it, and obviously we still have areas to address in the starting rotation.”

OK… I think I might actually get where he’s coming from on this one, and that it might be closer to the beliefs of those who have been blindsided and confused by his recent pursuits of relief pitchers than we maybe realize. Yes, there are plenty of scrap heap, year-to-year arms available on the free agent market, and it’s entirely possible to piece together a decent bullpen that way. But Anthopoulos seems to be favouring the stability of performance, cost-certainty and extra years of control that come from trading for these guys, and doing so at the cost of only– and this is where he and many fans will inevitably differ– fringy potential members of the roster.

Yes, it hurts to give away any kind of potential, but the 25 spots on the active roster are finite, so if you can use a guy who isn’t projecting to be a part of that group to acquire someone who is, maybe the thinking is that even if it’s one of the lowest-value members of that group, it’s worth doing. Or, at least, that seems to be the thinking.

Of course, clearly the fact that so many game seem to have slipped out of the Jays’ grasp because they’ve bled away insurance runs while John Farrell hasn’t been able to use Oliver, Frasor or Janssen– who he saves to protect leads– in addition to the fact that the club doesn’t have a lot of bullpen arms coming back next year, seems to be a factor here as well.

With a bullpen fronted by Janssen, Santos, Lincoln, Happ, potentially Oliver, and Stroman– who was just promoted to New Hampshire– in place for next year, the Jays may well end up with a net savings, meaning there will be some extra resources available to fill other needs, and that’s something that has value that needs to enter the calculation as well.

Related to that, it seems as though one of those areas of need may not be the outfield, as Anthopoulos– while going out of his way to not give anything to anybody– raved about Anthony Gose including, believe it or not, the at-bats he’s taken in his stint so far.

“What I’m impressed with with Anthony is, one, from a confidence standpoint, if you ever get a chance to know Anthony Gose, I don’t think that’s something he’s ever going to lack,” he says. “I think one of the best parts about him is that he’s so mentally strong and tough. And he went to winter ball this year and he didn’t do well, and I asked him, you know, what happened, and he was like, ‘I just sucked.’ He wasn’t down on himself, he didn’t put his head down. He just very matter-of-factly said, ‘I’m going to get better.’ He’s got such a great belief in himself. And I think overall the quality of his at-bats has been outstanding. He doesn’t chase, he works the count. I think there’s times from a mechanical standpoint where he’s a little bit late getting his hands going or getting his foot down– I think that’s why you might see him swing through some balls. But I’m very encouraged– I know the numbers aren’t there, but I’m very encouraged about the quality of his at-bats.”

Um… OK, it’s not like Anthopoulos was going to say anything else, but that’s laying it on a little fucking thick.


From the TSN Radio Interview

For reasons that you don’t have to think too hard to figure out, the guys at TSN are a little more hostile to the Jays’ message than their competitors over at Sportsnet. Anthopoulos continued his post-deadline press junket (we were talking about this at some point, weren’t we?) by joining James Cybulski (& Co.!) on Tuesday afternoon (audio here), and the most interesting topic was actually about what didn’t get done.

“Today we were still trying to work on something fairly big– probably around noon today,” the GM said. “It was on life support there for a little bit, but it didn’t go anywhere. We were active, we had a lot of dialogue. It’s just a good time of year to be able to make trades, because everybody is very engaged.”

Pressed on it, he admitted that the deal as for a starting pitcher, and later on, while trying to downplay the size of what he was working on, he bristled at the representation of it as a “blockbuster,” saying “I don’t want to characterize it as this huge deal, just something maybe a little more significant than what we’ve done in the past.”

More significant that getting Rasmus? Or Escobar? Or Lawrie? Or dealing Halladay? But not a blockbuster? Okaaaaay…

Further to that, he says emphatically that he had permission from ownership to add to payroll for, say, a Matt Garza. ”In terms of dollars, that would have never been an obstacle to getting a deal done.”

Whether it was Garza, he wouldn’t say. And he continued to insist that the rumblings that are out there very often aren’t true.

“Everything that we’re linked to is probably way off base,” he said. “I read a lot of things about how we were shopping players or we were dying to move players. We didn’t have anybody we were shopping, we didn’t have anybody we were dying to move, we don’t have any contracts we’re trying to unload, that kind of stuff.”

Clearly that’s a reference to the countless reports about the Jays’ eagerness to move Yunel Escobar– which I still, honestly, think very well may have been based solely on the ridiculous magnification of a tiny nugget from Jeff Blair several weeks back about some discontent. But what do I know?

There’s also, he says, “a lot of gamesmanship that goes on, whether it’s clubs putting out false information, agents putting out false information.”

That said, he tells us they “made everyone available,” noting the extremes of activity that he went through as the deadline approached– which was mostly fruitless. ”You can force deals,” he explains. “You can get the fan base excited for maybe a week or two, and then people realize that maybe the damage you’ve done to the organization is going to end up being worse.”

Could it have been worse than the reaction to dealing Travis Snider for a damn reliever? I’m not so sure. But, as Anthopoulos tells us, that “was just one of those things where we’d been trying to get Brad Lincoln for quite some time.”

“When you’re playing the free agent market for your bullpen, you have to do it year-in, year-out, and it becomes harder and harder,” he says, echoing what he spoke about with McCown and Cox. “I think the market for relievers is slowly starting to change as well. Now that we’ve become a more competitive team, it’s a more important area for us.”

“In 2010 and 2011, I think it was pretty apparent that we still had some work to do from a foundational standpoint. I mean, last year it was clear that we needed a centre fielder badly,” he said. “To have a guy out there on the market like Colby, with control and talent and age, if we were going to hurt the team short-term– which we did, obviously, we traded our bullpen– long-term we felt we were going to get a core piece that we needed, but we knew that, trading all those guys, the club was going be worse for it.”

Now, he says, he thinks “we’re much farther along,” and as such, “Our mindset has changed.”

“You can never have too many guys who are options for you late in the game.”

The same is true in the lineup, apparently, where even though ”we’re finally getting to the point where, position player-wise, we’re in very good shape,” he adds that it’s important to keep building ”depth and lengthening the lineup,” which “allows guys to not perform, because it’s going to happen.”

His focus, it seems, is being shifted in the direction of his 25-man roster. That doesn’t mean it’s a complete abdication of his principles on prospects or potential, but I’m pretty sure that’s what’s underlying all of what we’ve seen this summer– and if you look at the premium placed on having quality on the active roster by the clubs he’s competing with in the AL East and the other big swinging dicks around the Majors, I think it probably makes sense to have eventually started to make this turn. Of course, he’s not entirely around that corner yet.

From His Talk With Reporters

At his North of the Border blog, Gregor Chisholm has a great transcript of what Anthopoulos spoke to reporters about following the passing of yesterday’s deadline, the deals made Monday night, and the promotion of Moises Sierra– who the GM seemed higher on than might be expected.

“A guy like Sierra is someone that we like,” he says. “We think he has the type of upside to be a Nelson Cruz-type player. I know, obviously, Cruz is a bit of a late bloomer but his skill set and his tools certainly match that. Obviously he’s not there yet and he has to go out there and do it. We are high on him, we are excited about him.”

“But again,” he assures us, “he is behind the other two right now on the depth chart but we still feel we have some pretty good depth from an outfield standpoint.”

The other two are, of course, Anthony Gose and Rajai Davis, and the GM cautions that “for me to sit here at the end of July and try to say who’s our left fielder going forward, when we have guys with options and control, it’s way too early to make a decision like that.”

“The only guarantees in our outfield right now are Jose Bautista in right field and Colby Rasmus in center.”

The bigger question, though, is pitching, and Anthopoulos went out of his way to praise the guys who have filled in with all the injuries to the rotation, but also insisted that “we definitely could improve in that area. That’s not to single anybody out. If you look at the numbers and where we rank, until you rank 1 you can always improve.”

He also tells us that when it comes to the bullpen help they acquired, “I think there is no question we added bodies, two good bodies that have the ability to strike guys out which was important to us. Guys with above-average stuff and guys who have the chance to be here for a while. That can only improve our bullpen, especially with the number of free agents we have.”

While Travis Snider was a tough talent to give up, Anthopoulos explained that “finding late-inning relief help isn’t necessarily the easiest thing to do.”

Ahhh… that’s maybe a bit of an overstatement, in my estimation, but very obviously the Jays really like the player they acquired.

“I don’t think we had anyone that was not excited about him and the way he was throwing the ball. I think all our scouts felt pretty strongly about him. I think it was a unanimous, everyone felt that it was a very, very good talent for us,” Anthopoulos said of Lincoln. “A power arm with swing and miss stuff.”

“Obviously there is added value, or the upside, maybe one day he would potentially be able to start,” he says, but “that wasn’t the primary focus when we acquired him. … He was acquired to fill a late-inning relief role for us going forward.”

So… that really is that. Let’s hope Alex is ahead of the curve on this one.


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Comments (153)

  1. I just wondering what the plan is for starting pitchers. From what I read/heard yesterday he seemed to indicate they would be active in the FA market in the off-season. I’m assuming it’s due to the high cost of SP on the trade market.

    • I hope. Last year there were not many pitchers available. This year there are more pitchers out there. I’m tired of all these JOJO Rayes projects.

    • I am unaware of any cheap FA pitchers that have talent. I think we are in for more of the same bottom of the rotation, inning eater hoars that are cheap and dirty

  2. Had our starting rotation not fallen apart this year. I think we’d all be happy little Jays fans right now and probably still in playoff contention.

    • I don’t know if Laffey and CV have pitched any worse than Hutch or Drabek would have if they were healthy. They might have added a win or two with a healthy Morrow though.

      • @Jaysball

        Don’t forget though – that all the starting pitching injuries have lead to a weakened bullpen as well (both from overuse, and from guys having to step into the rotation), probably costing us a couple games on that end as well.

        With regular health I think this team is right there for a WC.

        • yer nutz. this team as-is is nowhere close to a WC.

          the starting pitching even in full health has 1-2 holes.

          the fielders/bats are missing at least 1-2 as well (LF 2B 1B/DH).

          you can’t possibly really think that this team as-is is anywhere near as dangerous as a Texas/Angels/NYC/Tampa team. probably a couple more.

          and there’s NL teams that still outclass us as well.

          • Tocher Maime – If they somehow pull out the cheque book and sign a #1 (probably wont happen) then you have Morrow #2 Ricky #3 and some other talented young guys with upside to fill out 4 and 5, so I think the rotation is missing one good solid pitcher from being deep and talented.

            The holes in the positional players you mention is just stupid because they currently rank 5th in runs scored and are only 10 runs off from the best club. The four teams which have scored more runs (Cards, BoSox, Rangers, Yanks) all have veteran clubs and the Jays are mostly young and stand to improve, without even tapping into the farm system.

            Finally, the NL is a joke- but also bordering on irrelevant when the goal is to reach the post season first

        • Very true. There is a new dynamic to getting bullpen arms. you can’t rely on paying coco, rauch, franciso cordero etc 4 million per year & pick up a draft pick at the end of the year.

          However, AA has opened up a huge hole in LF for 2013.

          Gose isn’t ready. Davis is barely adequate.

          • You can always sign a veteran FA to play LF next year, then punt him at the deadline if Gose is ready. In retrospect maybe they should have tried to land Beltran last year… but I don’t think they expected both Snider and Thames to shyte the bed yet again.

    • If you want to contend you have to have at least 8 starters. By starters I don’t mean Mc Gowan, I mean proven starters. You can’t find a team that finishes the season with the same 5 starters that they’ve started the season. Injuries happen and happen very often. You’d better be prepared for it.

    • I disagree to a point. Drabek and Hutch were spending more time ballwashing than pitching.

      Had the rotation consisted of Romero v2011, Morrow healthy (RE: “diagree to a point”), and if Alvarez had 3-4 pitches that were major-league caliber (he really only has 1 – his FB), then the Jays may be a contending team. We can’t forget Bautista getting hurt also.

  3. Interesting to hear him so high on Gose. Obviously mechanics are a huge issue, but if Gose is seeing the ball well maybe all that needs to happen is for Murphy to work his magic.

    • a load of crap. AA must be on drugs if he thinks any of gose’s at bats have been good. those have been the worst at-bats I’ve seen in 3 years.

      • the worst at bats in 3 years you say? Classic. I am excited to read your work on BP in the coming months!

      • I guess you didn’t watch Snider, Lind et al.

      • If Snider had had those Gose at bats, he would have been demoted to Vegas.

        I feel sorry for Gose. He will now be hyped more than Snider was to protect AA’s reputation.

        This is the same problem with JP Riccardi. Hype your prospects when they aren;t ready.

        So AA makes a valid point about Snider getting hurt a lot with his wrist yet he trades for delabar, who’s elbow has 8 screws in it?? He seems like he will only last for 1 year or 2 before he gets hurt.

        He will end up as a rehab buddy with McGowan.

        • @oak, those screws are made of titanium though

          • Well that’s great. We can sell the titanium on the scrap market.


            He sounds like Steve Rogers in the 6 million dollar man.

            I doubt Delabar lasts more than 2 years

      • Have you honestly watched Adam Lind, or Travis Snider over the last three years? How about that jackass Aaron Hill?

  4. I really hope that they address our needs in the coming winter. Everybody knows what our needs are. 1B/DH 2B and two SP. If we don’t, it’ll be the same shit show that we’re witnessing this year.
    *There is something in Anthony Gose that I seem to hate. Maybe it’s his chain, maybe it’s his hitting, maybe because of all the unjustified credit that he gets or maybe because he’s here while Snider is in Pirate uniform. Don’t know. But I fucking hate this guy.
    *They just didn’t want Snider. Period. Maybe they know something that we don’t know and will never know. But saying that he was traded based on his numbers is just pure BS.

    • I am not sure how you can say “But saying that he was traded based on his numbers is just pure BS”. Which Major League Numbers do you think were good? And should’ve kept him here?

    • i don’t think its too difficult to see what they don’t like in snider. He strikes out like a motherfucker and gets hurt all the time

      • So does Kelly Johnson.

        • Qualifying offers for free agents will be in the $13.3-$13.4MM range,’s Buster Olney reports (on Twitter).

          Seriously, are the Jays going to offer Kelly Johnson $13 mill??? Is there anyone out there who’s going to offer KJ a multi-year deal? Seems like we might be without a 2Bman next year and not getting the draft pick AA hoped he’d get from trading for KJ.

          • I think we knew that was going to be the case, didn’t we.

            Even when it almost made sense, it didn’t make a lot of sense to offer KJ $12M.

          • the one positive here is that maybe we can sign him for dirt cheap, cheap enough to bring up Hech during the year to see how he’ll do without worrying about benching a large payrolled player. if hech can cut it maybe we can cut KJ loose. Maybe he plays well enough to get some trade value.

            the 2B question is the least worrisome I would argue.

            the LF wasn’t looking too terrible until the Snider trade so I think that one is now front and centre.

            and I’d like to believe that ownership could be pried of their cold hard $$ to spend on one player in the off season.

            but the huge one is starting pitching….we all know it a broken record. but its nutz. its gone from a shaky situation to a full blown mess. its a real mess. they need 1-2 as we know.

            I have a tough time believing that AA can pry enough $$ from the owners to spring for both a 1B/DH AND 1 starter.

            so to me it looks like a best in spring 2013 we’ll be back where we were 2 weeks ago – can we live with / put together a package of prospects to get a starter (or a 1B/DH if we were to land a pitcher in the offseason). and will anyone even deal with AA knowing his rep, short of looking to fleece the jays for what they want?

          • Who’s at 2B in 2013.?

            Hech , Escobar, Mccoy?

        • …who plays second base, a much thinner offensive position. And I dont think anyone will tell you KJ is the long term solution for the Jays

    • @ Bear. Goeds is a rare talent, great speed, tremendous arm (reallly really good), once the kid starts hitting you’ll like him just fine. You won’t even remember ol’ whatshisname by the time ST rolls around

  5. The Jays spent $12 million on Cordero, Frasor and Oliver this season with the intent that those players would make up the bulk of the backend of the pen. Next season, they’ll spend $6.5 million on Santos, Janssen and Lincoln with the same intent. That’s substantial savings.

    I think it’s a stretch to say that young, controllable relievers are the new inefficiency, but due to the changes to the draft pick compensation system veteran relievers are no longer worth paying the extra money for. Relief pitchers are still going to be volatile commodities, but the new system makes it even more important to field and inexpensive bullpen.

  6. Well Ill drink the Kool-Aid. Fuck it. The team didn’t all the sudden get worse when they traded Travis.

    • i don’t strongly disagree with you…but i’m not totally convinced either. i just can’t shake the feeling that the outfield of travis-rasmus-gose (and potential of bautista when he returned) was looking mighty fucking good defence. i finally felt like we had an OF that was going to shut down all but the best hits….and the handful of games we got to see with Snider in LF was playing that out so far…

      • maybe, but Gose/Sierra are supposedly good out fielders too with bat potential. So what are we going to do. You can only have 3 out fielders.

  7. I see the upside in Lincoln, I’m not sold on Delabar though. I’m mean the guy is 29yrs old & the fact he wasn’t even on the Mariners 25 man Roster tells me everything I need to know about him. However we really didn’t lose much in Thames

  8. AA is going to have to get things done in the off season. The fan base will not take another .500 season with wait to next year statements. TSN’s hostile interview is just the beginning.

    • False.

      • I don’t think that’s false at all. If we go through another off-season of AA talking about contract lengths and saying wait until the deadline for trades then people will be (legitimately) upset.

      • What do you mean false? Explain yourself please?

      • I don’t understand you Stoeten. You think they should stay pat with what they have this off season and do nothing? I think you should start writing a future post for your blog. Here, I will help you with the headline. “Bautista wants out”. Have you not learned from the past? Remember Roy Halladay? Chris Bosh? Give me a break.

      • Disagree. There are more Jays fans than ever. I had a long discussion with the pizza guy tonight & he was outraged by the trade of Snider.

        Fans won’t tolerate another year of BS from Beeston & AA.

        The rotation eeds significant upgrades & now Roero is a question mark for 2013.

        Gose will probably end up around 230 avg with 2 HR. He could be rajai Davis lite with better defense.

        • Holy shit THE pizza guy.

          Well I’m sold. Oakville for GM!

        • How was this year BS?
          We found out we have a legit CF (Rasmus), 1B (EE), and 3B (Lawrie) all of these questions needed to be answered before this team was a contender.

          As well we found out Morrow is a top of the rotation pitcher, and that Hutchinson has a bright future.

          Not only this but the Jays had another draft that was considered the best or 2nd best in the league (Smoral, Davis, Stroman, Alford, De Jong) all considered top 50 going into the draft. On top of that the Jays signed the #1 international player available (Franklin Barreto) who could be the future 2B. How do you think the Yankees got Cano and Soriano? International free agency. All in all I think this was a successful season for the organization.

  9. I suppose the only problem that I had with this was the assertion that the Jays are now a contending and competitive team. One might argue that sitting in last place in the AL East or never being more than 5 games above .500 is not exactly an improvement. The Jays have had injuries but so have other teams.

    My sense is that this team is and was ‘thin’. The shift from drafting college pitchers over to high school and young international arms left a rather gaping ‘talent hole’ between A and AAA.

    • Keen observation regarding the talent hole between the lower minors and AAA. But that trend is changing for the positive.

      So far, the 2012 season is one of shoulda, coulda and woulda. Had the rotation stayed healthy, had Romero pitched to his talent level, the Jays would be in the thick of things. But, losing Santos is often an overlooked factor. While Janssen has done a great job closing out games, it does take away his contribution in 7th and 8th inning situations, where Cordero shat the bed for most of the time he was here.

      AA is shedding payroll by building his bullpen via trades rather than free agency. Hopefully, this means that the Jays will be players in the FA market for some starting pitching.

  10. Whatever AA does next, I hope he stops the revolving door in left field. I can’t take it anymore. When is the last time we had a full time / full season left fielder? Shannon Stewart in 2002? 10 years of this misery? Lind, Wilkerson, Mench, Delucci, Snider, Stewart (the horrible return), Patterson, Reed, Wise, Lewis, Mastoianni, McCoy, Loewen, Thames, Rivera and even Johnny Fucking Mac and Jayson Fucking Nix played a game over there! Just put Bautista over there. Forget about his arm.

    • If Gose ever develops a hit tool sufficient to play at the MLB level, he likely will get CF by the end of 2013. Rasmus can move to LF and Bautista can man RF while we await the emergence of handsome Jake, who could be MLB ready by 2014. Bautista’s future will likely be at 1B or at DH by then.

      If Gose doesn’t develop enough, then yeah, AA will need to target a bat who can play some LF.

      • Rasmus loses a lot of value moving to LF. IMO it is more likely Bautista moves to 1B and one of Gose or Rasmus moves to RF. But who knows, if Gose can hit enough, then why not trade one of Gose or Rasmus for someone with a better bat for LF or RF?

    • Agreed. Snider had a good shot to be an everyday LF with solid defense while his bat comes around.

  11. so he’s setting up another ‘complete for LF’ narrative. another year of waffling back & forth between two guys with question marks on the bats. what’s sierra like as a defender? anyone?

    i’m not sold on this. I don’t like the nelson cruz overstatement, and I don’t like the revisionist history on the LF narrative, and I sure don’t like the non-plan for starting pitching and nothing to say about 2B or 1B/DH.

    • Yeah, but you have a whole lot of sand you need to extract from your vagina, so obviously you’re going to be a little bit grumpy about everything.

      • Wow. Easy Stoety. I thought Tocher made a couple good points there.

        • Not really. Every comment he has made on this piece is negative and hyperbolic to the point that you can’t take him seriously. Discourse is great, but throwing around criticism when you have 15% of the required information is discrediting to anyone.

          • i asked a legitmate and honest question about Sierra’s defense.

            part of your criticism is that I use %15 of the required information.

            i find that the responses to my posts and my questions present no facts and no information. instead its %100 insult.

            if you disagree with my criticism you are welcome to present some facts. i assure you i’m not one of the trolls on here. I might currently be pretty negative on here (not towards the game or watching the team I might also add) but I would love to read some facts or decent counter arguments that are not based on hero-worship.

            i’ll repeat..does anyone know anything about Sierra as a defender? can you give me something that might encourage me about his spot in the lineup?? from stats I see I can’t tell the difference between a Sierra and a Thames…so some extra context would help.

      • great answer! fantastic counter argument.

      • Trading Snider for a relief pitcher is a very tough pill to swallow. Had he been included in a big trade for a starting pitcher, we probably would have been ok with it. Trading prospects ( and fan favourites) to cover up the shitty work he does in the off season compiling a bullpen is too much.

    • IIRC Sierra has a big arm, but I could be mistaken.

    • when you say non plan, you do realize that the day the GM of a baseball team lays out his actual plan in front of you and says “Hey Tocher, what do you think of this”, is the day that either that GM should be fired or that team should be contracted, right.
      Because all competitive endeavors in the sports business are constantly and transparently carried out in the open view of their fans? Because Alex Anthopolousanswers to you, personally and directly?

      Fuck right off.

      • actually, he does (or should) answer to the fanbase ultimately.

        you are framing it as if the fanbase needs to approve or be aware of his moves. I’m not saying that. I’m saying AA should be able to demonstrate that the club has taken concrete steps to improve year over year. I’m saying he’s shown that for 2 years…but he’s not showing that this year. This year is a BUST..both on the field and off in terms of improvement. I’ve enjoyed watching the games (not as much as 2010/2011, but still they’re great!) but no one can convince me that the club has shown marked improvement over last year on or off the field. AA’s moves this year have not improved…its merely plugged holes in aspects where his previous roadmap went south – ie the ‘super pen’ so highly touted and the prospect development (ie he can claim no development success for draybek or jenkins, etc).

        so 2012 is looking like a tread water at best, or even a slight step back in terms of being able to demonstrate that the roadmap is working, that the plan earns confidence, and that the club is putting up improved results.

        its been 2-3 years and we’ve accepted a lot of what he said. but now he’s backtracking and speaking out both sides of his mouth, and the worst is this blatant over-selling of guys like Gose and Sierra. guys I’m excited to see play, guys who we can see have certain skills, but also young unproven guys who don’t need to be oversold. By doing that, intentional or not, AA is distracting and quelling fanbase reaction which has now heard him talk about avoiding FA signings to make trades and then can’t make the trades. They’re hearing him try to conveniently shift the importance to the aspects he could address while ignoring the huge gaping whole that is the starting rotation and LF which has been there since he started.

        • well said!

        • Very well said Tocher. I didn’t follow this team till mid 2008, but from what I read , Jp riccardi had his apologistsfor the first few years of his reign.

          AA makes no sense when he decides to trade a LF (Snider) with high upside & years of control , for a middle reliever.

          Snider was a JP pick, so AA doesn’t feel as responsible for his success as with Gose who he specifically traded for.

          Gose will get a longer leash than Snider, but if he fails, he deserves blame as well.

          The team is headed towads another 75-80 win year. That is a regression from 85 wins in 2010.

    • Compete for LF?

      The Jays are giving Sierra a cup of coffee to see if he can play. What is the risk? At least Sierra has 2 things going for him that Snider and Thames didn’t. Better defense and less K’s. However I think the Jays look externally for a solution here, Hamilton, Hunter, Swisher are all FA’s and there are numerous players in which a trade could be made.

      Non Plan for starting pitching? The whole organization knows they need pitching, I am pretty sure there is a plan in place to go after free agents or to make a deal. We don’t know this yet as the prices haven’t been set.

      As for 2B it does look bleak however having Kelly hit in the 8/9 hole isn’t the worst thing in the world.

  12. AA seems to fall in love with players, and needs to have them.

    They wanted Gose in the Halladay deal, but got him later.
    Happ was mentioned in the Halladay deal, but got him later.
    Brett Wallace was eyed by the Jays in the draft… got him later.
    Brett Lawrie was eyed by the Jays in the draft, taken one pick before them…
    And now you can add Brad Lincoln to the list. ( Anthopoulos tells us, that “was just one of those things where we’d been trying to get Brad Lincoln for quite some time.”)

    And I guess Travis Snider was just never one of those guys he was never in love with. He wasn’t his guy.

    • Better than falling in love with Brad Wilkerson and Kevin Mench and then acquiring them year after they were any good *cough* JP Riciardi *cough*

    • Kelly Johnson is another to add to the list.

    • good observation man

    • Jo Jo Reyes is another for the list.

    • Or maybe AA thinks it’s good for players to hear the GM say “We’ve wanted this guy for a long time, and did what we needed to do in order to get him.”

      Because whether you believe in intangibles or confidence being important, I think it’s clear that AA and big league players do. So for the boss to comment positively on an employee, it will have a very positive impact on that employee’s performance at best, and at worst, no impact at all. Ergo, it’s worth saying, every time you acquire someone new for the organisation.

  13. “Obviously there is added value, or the upside, maybe one day he would potentially be able to start”

    This quote makes the deal sound better to me. Hopefully this wasn’t just a PR throw-in line.

    I like the idea of having SP depth in the bullpen. As we’ve seen with Villanueva this season, it is valuable to have a good reliever that can provide decent starts if needed. The loss of Snider hurts less if Lincoln is an adequate spot starter as well as an excellent reliever.

    Still, a lot of this value in my mind depends on the Jays being a real contender…and for that I think we need to add 2 SPs and a starting LF that is not Rajai Davis.

  14. I’m glad that he’s finally taking the bullpen seriously. He’s got this team all loaded up to make a big move this offseason; either in Left or a starter. We’ll see how it all goes I guess.

    • Not to mention 2B since KJ is a FA.

      I’m not sure which other 2B are on the market, and personally I don’t think Hech is an adequate replacement.

      • No one would talk about the obvious hole pending at 2nd base prior to the trade deadline. Lets talk about bullshit like trading for Upton, Johnson, Dempster, Garza etc…like AA was going to spend that kind of money on this years hap sac version of the Toronto BJ’s. Now the deadline has past, so of course its time to discuss what is a potential killer problem for the 2013 roaster. Just in the nick of too late boys

  15. It’s funny, but I think people would have been happier if Gose was traded for Lincoln instead of Snider.

    • Agreed. I don’t give a shit about the Pirates but have still checked their box scores the last 2 days.

      He may have had a rough go of it, but i”ll miss TS.

    • Agreed. Snider has more potential than Gose.

  16. I think it’s pretty obvious that they had soured on Snider, and I think it had to do with coachability and his willingness to adapt. At the beginning of last year (and perhaps before) there was talk of how is hitting approach was flawed, and that he could hit mistakes, and with his strength hit a few out, but he wasn’t making contact enough and had holes in his swing. Much was made of the influence of Chad Mottloa in AAA and the adjustments he was making.

    Fast forward to last year. He started with the team, as I recall, but didn’t hit, and was ultimately sent back down and replaced with Thames. At the time, I recall clearly hearing Alex say on the Fan that this was purely about performance – Travis wasn’t producing results and Thames was, so down he went.

    This spring, Alex was talking about the LF competition with McCowan again, and I remember for the first time ever catching Alex in a lie (at least of omission) he alluded to how last year “old habits” started to come back into his swing which were a factor in his being sen down. I can’t comment on how sincere this competition for the starters job was this year, but, injuries aside, I had the impression that they were leaving him down longer in AAA that they might have otherwise because they were trying to avoid a repeat of his falling back into his familiar hitting style once he hit the higher expectations that come with playing at the Big League level. He hit a few bombs, including some off of lefties, but I think ultimately they lost confidence that the flaws in his swing were fixable (or at least the philosophy of their coaching was not really taking hold).

    As an aside, I wonder if the same thing applies to Aaron Hill – I recall hearing Dewayne Murphy mention how he felt Hill was the hardest to coach, in terms of his not wanting to take advice or make changes. Or not. What the fuck do I know.

    • Hill has seemingly made whatever changes were necessary in Arizona. Not saying I disagree with you because you raise an interesting question. To play devil’s advocate here, maybe Murph needs to look in the mirror. How come Snider was able to make the changes under Motolla, and Hill could do it under different coaching in Arizona, but neither guy could do it under Murphy. For some his approach seems to work for some, and for others it clearly does not. Rios was another guy Murphy (and Cito) fucked right up.

      • Very good point. Hill is hitting very well in Arizona. Murphy has done well with Bautista, but Lind has regresssd.

  17. Snider is 2-4 with 1 run.

    Can we all just start freaking out RIGHT THE FUCK NOWWWW

  18. I don’t believe the “a cheap pen lets us spend elsewhere” statement by AA.

    • Wasn’t that Stoeten’s interpretation? Maybe i missed that quote.

      • Yup. My interpretation.

        Not sure why anybody wouldn’t believe it, though.

        • oh, I agree with you. Team monetary resources are finite, so a $ saved on one player can be spent elsewhere.

        • I’m not sure why people wont believe this either. It’s the first thing I thought when these deals went down. Don’t worry irrational Dbags, AA will spend when the time is right and the player is actually worth it.

          • Like Prince Fielder?

          • Bull fucking shit. Look at the payroll. It’s not that they dont have the money to spend…they have this payroll fairly well trimmed as it is. It is that they DONT believe in the concept of signing free agents at market value to long terms deals.

            look at the money they gave to jose, ricky, edwin, Hill, Lind…they do spend money but it is always on internal guys who , at the time, are either signing at below market (if they are pending free agents) or are having their arb years bought out.

            this is the strategy and this is not a criticism of it, it makes some sense.

            but I do think they wlll ultimately have to fork over a wad of cash to a big named and likely overpaid to a degree free agent at some point to get to where they want to go.

        • LOL

          • Player A: .301/.389/.487 wOBA .371 with 16 HR
            Player B: .293/.388/.580 wOBA .410 with 28HR

            One cost 200+M and plays for Detroit, the other signa 3yr 27M dollar deal and plays for Toronto.

            But hey we should’ve splurged on Fielder right? He’ll totally be earning that kind of money by the end of his contract!

          • @Clamjam Yep, having both of those bats in the lineup would really fucking suck. We sure dodged a bullet there. Prince Fielder would never contribute any value to this lineup.

          • Thing is, Frank, having the Fielder contract on the books would limit what they are able to do in the future. Like sign EE to a really nice-looking, deal for example.

          • @Stoeten, I get that. Still a hard pill to swallow. Other teams are signing guys like this to these types of contracts, because they are market level contracts now, and still augmenting their teams with other talent that costs as much as EE did if not more.

          • Other teams are allowed to get the FMV of the broadcast revenues instead of being starved by the owners. 36 million per year from Rogers is about 50%les than the advertising revenue than 600K VIEWERS FOR 162 DAYS PER YEAR WOULD GET.

            Rogers accountants must be laughing at naive baseball bloggers who believe the payroll parameters crap.

            The padres & Reds will get more bradcast revenue than the Jays with a much smaller market.

            Wake up People!!

  19. Ya. I think he’s going to regret the Snider trade. But hopefully Lincoln is legit at least. I’m not sure how much I believe they’ve been “trying to get him for awhile” considering he’s only thrown, like, 23 good big league innings. But ya never know…….

  20. Maybe it’s just me but that’s certainly the most defensive I have seen AA in interviews before. Then again I am sure he’s disappointed he wasn’t able to make a bigger splash at the deadline. What I found interesting was a comment that seemed at odds with much of what he’s been saying in the past:

    “I guess it’s the same mantra I’ve always talked about,” Anthopoulos said on a post-deadline conference call. “We’re always trying to continue to make the club better and we’re certainly not going to make a move for the sake of making a move, or make a quote-unquote splash for the sake of doing that. I think there’s plenty of opportunities to those types of things in free agency in the winter. ”–blue-jays-gm-alex-anthopolous-pursued-a-big-deal-but-couldn-t-pull-it-off-leaving-club-little-improved-heading

    The last line really caught my eye. To me it certainly represents a sea change in his thinking. Of course with everything that’s taken place this winter and at the deadline it’s not surprising. The added competition for playoff spots and the high prices set in the winter for Latos and Gonzalez certainly changed what you seemingly could buy with prospects from a year or two ago.

    Personally I think it’s good to see that AA’s at least adaptable or is giving the appearance that he’s willing to be flexible with his team building. With the Jays overall strong offense, a now seemingly solid pen, I certainly think another good starter or two should make all the difference. I really like the fact that in addition to getting more power arms into the pen, with more possibly ready to help next year, it got much cheaper freeing up resources for other holes.

    The one thing I am kind of surprised at is the realization that power arms in the pen = a key to success. Surely there’s been plenty of examples of that long before Atlanta.

    • I am skeptical of the power arms being the key to bullpen success line…purely because it is repeated a million times by Pat Tabler whenever the jays play the Chicago White Sox.

      Anyone know if there has been any research done on the corelation between bullpen velocity and bullpen success (e.g., ERA, xFIP, etc.)?

      • I would think strictly from an outcome viewpoint a strikeout in most situations where a reliever is needed is preferable to any ball put in play.

        • Yeah, but that K is not guaranteed. You need to weigh all outcomes.

          • Of course but it still gives you a higher probability.

            There’s a good bit about strikeout pitchers in this write up about SIERA


          • That’s the pertinent quote to save time.

            “Pitchers with higher strikeout rates allow lower BABIPs and lower HR/FB rates, and SIERA picks up on this correlation. This is why the coefficient on strikeout rate in SIERA is so negative–because pitchers with high strikeout rates not only prevent runs by getting outs, but because they also allow fewer hits on balls in play and fewer home runs on fly balls.”

        • Not always true. Part of the reason the Jays brass is nuts over Sam Dyson is because hitters put it into play alot but almost always on the ground. This is good in siatuations where a double play will get you out of a jam and end an inning.

          • Sure if the infielders manage to make the play. The study also said this about ground balls:

            “Pitchers with higher ground-ball rates (but not too high) allow the highest BABIPs and SIERA picks up on this reversing effect of ground balls on BABIP due to their correlation.”

            But what do I know? That’s their data so argue with them.

    • True, but these moves could be the result that santos may be damaged goods for 2013.

      Oliver may retire or not be as good at age 42 next year.

      Cecil will probably join the bullpen next year.

      Frasor may not be in shape for 2013.

      I do agree that the Jays need more Power arms than nibblers.

  21. Young, under control, decent bullpen arms are the new market inefficiency?

    Seems to me a usually good way to obtain good bullpen arms is to convert starters who haven’t panned out at the major league level, e.g., Scott Downs, Mark Rzep, etc. However, the jays don’t have the SP depth to convert some of their failed starters, e.g., Brett Cecil, so they need to trade for them.

    FA relievers come with a lot of risk since relievers tend to only have around 4 good, healthy years, so by the time they hit free agency they are a ticking time-bomb.

    Maybe i am trying to hard to justify this trade in my head.

    • I am a big proponent of moving minor league starters into pen spots just as much as I am when it comes to breaking in infielder prospects as utility guys. There’s a lot to be said about minor league development but with certain players they’re not going to get any better and what they learn at the major league level against the best competition can’t be taught in the minors.

      That said, I don’t think guys like Jenkins or McGuire had one dominating strikeout pitch so maybe they are bad examples in this case. Though I still think they would eventually make decent 6th or 7th inning guys.

    • Bingo!. It’s cheaper to give failed starters a chance to be in the bullpen.

      Burning OF prospects for reliever that pitch 50 innings a year is horrible use of assets.

      • If Snider does what he has done in the past (high Ks, low OBP) for the final 2 months, he has virtually zero trade value as an out of options project.

        Based on past performance, I’d say that this is the most likely outcome, though obviously it’s still possible he puts it all together

        Even if we only think of Lincoln as a cheap, controllable 8th inning reliever that’s better than nothing.

        Mind you, I’d still have preferred that they take the risk and sink or swim with Snider through 2012, but AA and his army of scouts didn’t feel that way.

        And based on the fact that AA has traded a number of prospects/young players, some of which have landed on these prospect lists (Taylor, Wallace, Stewart), without giving up an impact player to date, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to arguably selling as high as he can on Snider.

  22. Alex went as far as asking the Cubs to include Soriano to lower the asking price for Garza. He put out the effort, we just wouldn’t bend.

  23. My first thoughts when AA mentions a bigger deal on deadline day that did not happen but would have added significant dollars is the Jays agreeing to take Soriano off the Cubbies hands along with Garza if the Cubs would throw in some money and take lesser prospects than what they would expect for Garza alone. Of course with Garza ailing Cubs would likely have had to lower their price to get a deal done now as opposed to the offseason when he would presumably be healthy again.

  24. Also, you can have contingencies in place, but you can’t really anticipate what happened to the Jays’ starting rotation this season. Sometimes you just get thrown some unlucky shit. Also, Bautista going down doesn’t help anything, or JP, or Escobar’s regression, etc.

    I also don’t think that AA will regret the Snider deal one bit, but we’ll have to let that play itself out.

    • There was nothing unlucky about what happened to the Jays rotation this year aside from Morrow going down. Hutch and Alvarez never should have been here to begin with. Alvarez will have to be shut down due to innings limit. Hutch would have been too. Drabek was a gigantic question mark and was pitching like shit before he got hurt, Romero was due for a regression (not this bad mind you), Morrow has never pitched 200 innings his whole career, Cecil who was supposed to break with the club is a league average to below average pitcher, and the back up plan was 2 kids in double A with no track record (McGuire and Jenkins). The pitching staff was constructed out of hopes and dreams right form the start so to say what has happened to it is the result of bad luck is completely false. I’d say the emergence of Laffey, Cecil and Villueneva has resulted in a pitching situation that is better than what could have been expected at the every start of the season.

      • Very good post. Don’t forget that McGowan was supposed to be part of the rotation but he was on the DL before the ink was dry on his contract extension.

        It’s very tiresome to hear AA talk about free agency in the ffseason.

        He won’t spend 10 million per year on a free agent pitcher per year & Beeston won’t let him sign a 5 year contract , so any big name free agent is out of the question.

        The cost of pitching has skyrocketed, & the new wildcard gives more teams a shot at the playoffs,

        The new meme from the jays apologists is that wildcards don’t matter & only a division winner counts.

        The Jays shouldn’t bother competing for a wildcard because it’s one game so tey have to wait till they win a division.

        It’s hilarious, because the team can’t even compete for a second wildcard , so waiting around for all the prospects to mature in the same year & the other star to align to let the Jays win the AL east is pie in the sky talk.

        This team best hope for 2012 was to stay competitive past August 1 for a 2nd wildcard & we are at the cusp of falling out of the race.

      • Alvarez shouldn’t have been here? Considering what many were saying (i.e. not just Jays people) that’s a little revisionist.

        The rest is pretty much bang on. From the outset, this was a pseudo-contention year. Many things had to go right and most things have not. I don’t think that’s acceptable heading into 2013.

        • matter of opinion, but I don’t think he should have been here til he could cultivate a put away pitch.

  25. Doesn’t the Cruz comp fit Snider better than Sierra? A former high ceiling guy who stumbles in his early 20s only (hopefully) to become a good major leaguer after age 25?

  26. So is AA saying that money was not an obstacle for the deal that fell through proof of that fact or is it just a convenient unprovable “factoid” he can claim to diminsh the angst of the fan base.

    i doubt money was a factor in the deal not a degree.

    • yup. he’s talking up the pipe dream of laying down coin over the winter again. conveniently talking up the method that is not in play at the moment. then in the winter it will be payroll parameters again or some other reason that we should believe they are astute to not spend the cash…question marks in the prospects that they first wanted to see play out before spending…you know…’we think we’ve got some aces down in the minors that can come up and make a big impact on the club in 2013 without spending money. instead we can use that $$ as part of trades during the summer”

      start. stop. repeat.

      I was %100 pro-AA for 2 years. But that Darvish thing was the first straw. And then the 2nd was that he talked up prospects so hard that the bubble couldn’t help but burst on the actual results – ie Draybek, Snider, Jenkins, etc. Kind of took off the shine of believing that the farm could fill all the needs alone. He also talked up the Super Pen so hard that it was a terrible let down. spare parts method was a total bust this year (it worked previously to some degree). And lastly he talked us into believing that FA spending restraint would mean that he’d make a concrete move in trade this year.

      The over-sell and the misleading statements are starting to become noticeable.

      Now I want to know about attendance. Who has got the figures currently? I would be shocked if attendance does not show a large increase.

      so when is the media going to start pressing him about this narrative about ‘we’ll spend when people start coming to the stadium’?

      because people are coming to the stadium. and it seems like LOTS more. and the merch is through the roof.

      so what’s the deal then?? are they going to get a Grienke level player in FA now or what??!!!

      yes, this all sounds negative. but I’m being exceptionally negative in measure equal to the apologist horsecrap i’ve been reading on this blog. Get objective and i’ll simmer down. but you guys are kidding yourselves!

      it all comes down to bautista. if this club can’t get it done while he’s still producing then fuck them, i’ll be outta here as quick as I came in. they owe it to the fanbase to get it done while bautista is good. that is what people want. that is the guy that started bringing them their fanbase back. get it done. people were willing to accept a multi year plan. no probs. but stick to it and make it happen.

      • Good post Tocher.

        Attendance is up 20% over last year so using Forbes figures, we are looking at another 8 million in gate receipts..

        Merchandise sales are split 30 ways with the MLB, so they don’t benefit as much as expected.

        However, the news Jays merchandise seen all over town is building buzz for the team through attendance

        The Jays get 36 million per year for broadcast rights which is way below FMV compared to the advertising revenue they receive based on current ratings.

      • I think AA was honest with Mccowan when he said it wasn’t worth spending 100 million on Darvish including posting fee.

        AA did admit that he would have to guarantee playoffs if he wanted to spend 100 million plus on any free agent.

    • The problem is we’ll never know about the money issue when it’s relevant unless he comes out and says something like that exactly. He could string fans along for a long time by saying we’re not ready yet (not saying that’s what he’s doing). The only way we’ll ever know it’s not an issue is when they finally do spend.

      Between what they spent in MLB payroll and amateur picks they haven’t spent more than $90 million combined in any year other than 2008 and that seemed like an aberration more than anything else now. When you look at it like that it certainly makes you wonder if they ever will spend north of that. The median this year is around $86.5 million. Throw in another $6.6 million from the median from the draft (will be lower next year with less picks) and another $2.9 million from international money and you’ve got $95 million total.

      With that figure in mind for those that point out that the Jays have spent more than it seems it doesn’t tell the whole story. Even when you throw in the increased amounts of amateur spending in past 2 years they’ve still been well below the median. Of course that’s not to say at least the last year or two it wasn’t warranted. Going forward that will certainly be a harder argument to make especially with the core that’s in place now and the prospects on the way.

      • I don’t think the Jays can really lean on ‘payroll parameters’ quite so heavily this year. TV ratings are way up (over 600K/game so far), Radio ratings are up, online activity is high, and attendance has jumped (currently over 27K/game). They said (in a round about way) that people need to show up before they spent… Well, fans did it… At least to an extent that’s way over expecattions in a season like this.

        It’d be hard to lean on the same “excuses” (for lack of a better term) without push back, IMO.

        At least that’s how I see it.

        • Agree and from what it looks like (at least by what he’s saying now) that won’t be the case.

        • Agreed. The BS sideshow from Beeston is over.

          The Rogers apologists will have to work overtime this offseason, especially if baltimore & pittsburgh gets a wildcard spot.

          Jays will be stuck with KCfor longest playoff drought.

      • Very good post. The shell game that teh jays play by telling naive fans that they are spending record amounts on the draft is lame. They spend more on the draft because they were hoarding picks in the past by signing veteran relievers, and getting a pick when they left.

        Now with the new CBA, they won’t have as many picks & will have the slot amounts to pay.

        Spending 3 million extra on the draft is a drop in the bucket compared to what a free agent pitcher costs.

        This off season will be the last chance for fans to take this team seriously.

        The Jays have to put a team on the field on opening day that can win 90 games on paper.

        Do it by trade or signing free agents but if not, then AA is heading towards JP Riccardi territory with BS.

        I don’t care if the lansing lugnets or nh fisher cats win a championship.

        • This is a poorly thought out article:
          “Now with the new CBA, they won’t have as many picks & will have the slot amounts to pay”
          That was never the plan to keep hoarding these picks, the purpose of this was to invigurate the minors (that was neglected by JP) to get depth and some talent. This was just a smart way of accumulating extra picks while the team was rebuilding. Think of who the Jays got extra draft picks from (Downs, Buck, Fransisco, Molina, Rauch, Olivo etc.) Are you going to miss any of them? No. Did the Jays have a chance to win those seasons? No. It was a great strategy. Now that the Jays are going to start competing this is no longer how the team will operate.

          Spending 3 million extra on the draft is a drop in the bucket compared to what a free agent pitcher costs.

          Who cares? Why by a 30 year old verteran pitcher when you don’t have the rest of the team in order? The Jays are about a year away from competing that is when you add the veteran pitcher Not when he has no support. What good is a really good pitcher on a really bad team?

          I don’t care if the lansing lugnets or nh fisher cats win a championship.

          Really? I do because that means that you most likely have more talent on that team then the rest of the league. Those are the guys who step in and make JPA a redundant asset and move him for pitching help. That was fairly uninformed. The more elite talent the Jays have the better. The fact that you don’t care makes you sound like a whining child.

    • The Jays were willing to waste 5 million to take on Teahan’s contract last year to get Rasmus.

      They wasted 5 million to year beforeto take Rivera for Wells.

      They paid Philly 5 million to get better prospects for Halladay.

  27. I’ll believe the Jays will spend the “savings” when I see it.

    • They will argue that they spent the savings on edwin’s contract extension. Also Beeston will show up & talk about getting real grass in Skydome.

  28. I’ll wait and see this winter if they spend and trade to augment the core they’ve worked hard to put in place for long term success. If they don’t, Rogers should sell to someone that will fund the team properly.

    • Why would they do that? They make beaucoup bucks off this fucking team.

    • It will be fun to see what excuses the Jays come up for not spending next year.

      The free agent crop isn’t as good next year.

      The Dodgers, Reds , Padres will have access to more broadcast revenue for 2013 so they will be able to outbid the Jays for any free agents.

      At best, we can hope the Jays will extend Carlos V & maybe Colby Rasmus.

      • Padres spend less then the Jays and wouldn’t get a great TV contract because 1) there team sucks 2) they are in a saturated market.

        LAD are king
        LAA are second
        SD is a distant 3rd and they won’t be competing for the next 4-5 years.

        Also the Reds are maxed out. (Votto, Phillips to huge deals, Cueto, Bruce, Latos, Chapman need to be re-upped soon)

        Dodgers need bats, Jays need arms. So not really directly competing.

  29. what do you think of Travis d’Arnaud converted to either 1st or 2nd base?

    • How would a catcher profile as a 2B that makes no sense whatsoever. As for 1B why? we have EE. D’Arnaud has an elite bat for a catcher, an average bat for a 1B. Why destroy your assets value?

  30. cry more

  31. [...] recap of some extensive media sessions by Alex Anthopoulos after the trade [...]

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