Them too? Seriously?

So that was a hell of a game last night, eh? Or… a game, at least. Or… something. Not that I watched it, or anything, but I did catch the end via Twitter while coming up for air after a night in Montreal’s absurdly sweaty bars– which isn’t to say that Toronto shouldn’t absolutely strive to have a place like L’Esco, or that more bars shouldn’t adopt their policy of giving bands playing a liberal amount of free drinks, then charging them staff prices once they’re past the allotment of freebies, it’s just… holy sauna. And I also caught the accompanying post-game roster moves and marvelling at Aaron Loup actually taking an at-bat.

Word now, via a tweet from Barry Davis of Sportsnet, that Brett Lawrie and Colby Rasmus are not seriously injured, but still sore, which necessitated the call to the minors for Adeiny Hechavarria… to play third base– a position he hasn’t played in a game one single time since coming to the Jays’ organization in 2010. But who’s counting! And who’s counting his platoon splits either! (.736 OPS against right-handers, .954 against lefties).

No, seriously, who cares? Would you rather see Chris Woodward get the call?

Meanwhile, Andrew Carpenter– the bad carpenter, not David, who was acquired from the Astros along with JA Happ– was designated for assignment, Jesse Chavez was recalled, and Brett Cecil was sent to Las Vegas. He’ll join the rotation there, but after John Farrell’s bang-the-fuck-on comments yesterday that his long-term future may be as a lefty specialist out of the bullpen, one wonders if maybe we’ve seen his last turn as a member of the Jays’ rotation. Y’know, unless someone else goes down with injury, which… at this rate, that’s entirely possible.

Ugh.

Happ joins the rotation in Cecil’s place, and will start on Thursday in Tampa, according to another tweet from Davis.

And in another cable on the Rogers-owned Jays from Davis of the Rogers-owned Sportsnet, we have Saturday afternoon’s lineup. Those of you who are either pregnant or afflicted with a heart condition may want to avert your eyes…

Y. Escobar SS
K. Johnson 2B
E. Encarnacion DH
D. Cooper 1B
R. Davis LF
Y. Gomes C
M. Sierra RF
A. Gose CF
A. Hechavarria 3B

R. Romero LHP

2012, you guys!!!!!!

Comments (686)

  1. last thing the Jays need…

  2. Another injury. Jeezuz

  3. I just want to go on record as stating that David Cooper has smoked the ball every at bat but one..and has been very unlucky in getting only one hit.

  4. “The AL East has never been so competitive! EVERY GAME MATTERS!”

    Anyway hopefully Oliver will do his thing.

  5. Oliver is actually amazing, hope he comes back next year.

  6. And fuck you, Oakland.

  7. Walk that off Oakland bitches!

  8. Oakland has “Celebration”, I am breaking out this gem (never want it to get overused, but this win deserves a party)

    For You Coop. For You EE. For You Ricky. For You Casey. For You Moises. For You, DJFers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgMZugxm0uY

    • lol dm I really could have done without that

      • um, yeah, sorry Karen, not exactly gender or orientation neutral, is it – caught up in the moment, I’ll work on finding a more inclusive joyful song

        • oh that brought back memories of grade11 gym class. we dreaded being forced into the co ed aerobics class until it started.even our teacher was hot. the last row was best seat to see the view and hide your boner.hahaha those were the days

    • Thank you dm.

  9. All this AND Jack Cust – Christmas in August!!!!

  10. This ship is sinking.

  11. MY REPLY TO OAKVILLE69 from her dumbest argument yet. , let me correct that. To the even dumber but legitimately REAL Oakville69.
    I am the fake Oakville69. Your real reply, is even dumber than my fake post.

    This is what she wrote, in capital letters for all of us to see, at exactly 8/04/12 @ 301 pm EDT:

    I couldn’t even get past your first statement where you lied about how JP drafted players on THIS roster.
    Hill is not on this roster. True? Would you really be proud of taking credit for drafting Lind?

    You are ignorant. I need not read further.

    • I SEE THAT YOU POSTED IN THE CORRECT THREAD.

      I AM NOT A GIRL.

      THANKS FOR REMINDING ME THAT AARON HILL IS NOT ON THE CURRENT ROSTER

      AARON HILL WAS DRAFTED BY JP RICCARDI. HE PLAYS FOR ARIZONA NOW.

      HITTING ABOUT 300.

      • I am the real fake oakville69. The other fake oakville69 is a fake imposter.

        In my fake oakville69 post, I’ll mock the small samples which oakville69 uses when she complains about how well Snider is doing in Pittsburgh. Tonight Snider grounded out twice to the infield, popped out in the infield, and flied out to centre. Snider’s now hitting .235 on the season, and with Pittsburgh is sitting on the Mendoza line.

        • The one time stoeten wouldn’t ban someone for trolling

        • You are a pretty busy guy, Mr CFA or whatever you call yourself.

          I don’t think having a debate about the Jays is trolling.

          I do think it;s childish to use other people ‘s names & make up posts.

          Snider had another good game with a key Sacrifce fly to tie up the game with the Reds.

          Scott Rolen came through in the 8th inning with a triple.

          Reds won. Aroldis Chapman closed out the game pitching 100 mph

          • LOL, not sure what is going on here but there’s now a lot of fake Oakvill69 posts.
            My God, I thought this was one real person. LOL, makes sense now.

            I finally realize there is no ONE Oakville69 just jokesters making the irrational fans seem crazier than they are using Oakville69 as the spoekesperson for idioticy.

            Well played!

          • Scott Rolen?
            He was traded for EE right?

            Yes, good point.

  12. Great to win again!

    I don’t understand why Farrell pinch hit Mathis with no one on and 2 outs in 9th inning? Gomes has as much of a chance of hitting a homer there than Mathis does

  13. Ive been saying Cecil should be a lefty specialist for a long time but Aaron Loup will be better in the long run. Cecil will be able to throw harder out of the pen though.

    I love how Stoeten makes himself seem like a musician though, thats cute.

  14. Red sox getting owned. By the twins LOL!

    • If … Jays win tomorrow, and Red Sox lose to the Twins again, the Jays will actually be ahead of the Sox, who would be back in last place. Ingoddamncredible. I’m in the doomster camp (for this season anyway) and I hate the cheap stingy fucks at Rogers, but man oh man the Red Sox and Phillies are severely fucked up teams in spite of their ginormous payrolls.

      • begging to differ where I think it counts …

        I do not expect Jays to win this year, but the last thing I would say is that I am in the doomster camp. I smell all kinds of promise here; development and growth. There is still a lot to learn, but this scorned AAA team could turn a lot of heads 180 before they’re done. Glimpses of that amidst the wreckage that yesterday’s lineup is will do for many of us.

        As far as Rogers being stingy, that is just a story repeated here so many times people think it’s gospel. I really believe that if AA and Bees thought it would help the team AND he would come etc. that Cliff Lee is a possibility.
        There are a lot of questions though between the possibility and the reality which have nothing to do with the money.

        Our culture fixates too much on money and too much on winning and far too little on enjoying the enormous potential for enjoying the way life unfolds regardless of money or wins. This cannot be proven in any conclusive way either way but a lot of typing is spent in these rooms trying to do so.

        Here’s an example of the various ways a questions can be framed. I love Travis Snider and have right from the start where he made a monstrous catch in centre field at Yankee stadium in one of his first games. I had it as wallpaper for a year. Jumping straight up in total desperation, the ball found its way into his glove and the looks on both his face and the Yankee fan faces were priceless … however … he was expected to hit and has been streaky … Gose who is not expected to hit may be a different development path … BUT here’s the thing. Travis is gone, I can’t get him back and I’m pondering that Brad Lincoln’s “make-batter-look-ridiculous-AJ-type-hook” might be enjoyed several times a game, where Travis even at his best will not hit a jack even every 3 games. So who is the double your pleasure player? I haven’t proven anything, just questions that I enjoy as I watch baseball as a recreation from my life as a day trader where I’ve learned to not get too fucking worked up about winning or money, because if I do, I lose.

  15. Mathis hit a homer off the same pitcher yday

    • I’m not sure I can face more rajai Davis base running

      On the plus side cooper looks like a decent bench bat. Would much rather have him than Lind

  16. From what I’ve seen thus far, I would have to say that IF they insist on keeping Gose up here, he needs to be the CF and Colby needs to move to LF. Gose is otherworldly in terms of how much ground he chews up as well as his body control. The only reason to keep Rasmus in CF would be for political reasons, not for reasons that have to do with merit or what is best for the team.

    Having said ALL that, I just dont see Gose as being ready from an offensive standpoint. Now that he’s come up here and realizes what he has to deal with, he can go back and work on shortening that swing.

    • Total agreement with this post. I have been shocked — and I’m not trying to be funny — at the anticipation and speed Gose has on some of the hits to the outfield. He’s off at the sound of the bat and he motors like a damn cartoon character out there. One play in RF in Boston he turned a sure-thing double down the right field foul line, when all the fielders had shifted left, into an easy out — so easy-looking most people watching didn’t realize what they saw.

      And yes, he should probably be learning to hit in AAA. But he’s an extraordinary fielding and baserunning talent. If he ever learns to hit major league pitching …

      • Chris.
        “I’m not trying to be funny”????
        I have no idea how anything you said could be seen as funny.
        You’re bang on.

  17. Cordero with Houston so far:

    IP: 5.0
    BS: 3
    WHIP: 3.40
    ERA: 19.80
    WAR: -0.9

    Yes, he’s already blown 3 saves and given them almost a full game of dark matter value.

    • GOLD!!

    • But if you take away the three games in which he was shellacked, he actually has a 0.00 ERA in the other two games.

      • That’s not fair. I removed one data point from a set of 10 -15 where he had been the best without that stinko. After all I’m a cheerleader, not a boobird … trying to find the positives.

        For the KJ haters. Don’t you think he feels bad enough when he strikes out in key situations without everyone else hating on him and attacking him for what has obviously occurred. If he did what we do, when he returns to the field, and is carrying that load of shit, that he might miss the transfer on a DP ball?

        An actual player would not dare read a room like this because of the excess negativity that a very small percentage of its patrons carriy. There are a huge number of people reading this who say nothing because the Negative Nannies would jump all over them with Koolaid or some Rogers smear. You’re lucking AS only bans a few of you. He may have to get more strict in order to preserve some justifiable value here. This place can be fun and a fucking riot when the lazy cowards are not running all over it.

        • Absoluttely love this post.

          The worst part about all this negativity from the irrational is that they’re so damn vocal that they can poison the minds of the casual fan.
          Those who don’t have the passion to follow the organizational development and understand the plan going forward would just look at the scores or the standings, then see these negative comments and conclude that AA is a bad GM.
          The more vocal the nonsense, the bigger that momentum and when it becomes a movement these negative nutballs may actually pressure Rogers to make changes in the wrong direction like firing AA.

          • I don’t think it’s wrong to be critical of the GM.

            If we knew what Roger’s restrictions on AA in terms of payroll were, then it would be easier to judge him.

            Most of my frustration is that Beeston brags that Rogers never says no to the Jays, so in theory they could spend 120 milion but AA said to Mccowan that he would have to guarantee playoffs if he signed Fielder or Darvish or any other big name free gent.

            The team’s owner wantto have it both ways. They brag about being able to spend but then give AA contradictory orders.

            Rogers knows there would be a backlash if they publicly stated that AA cannot spend more than 75 milion, so they kep quiet.

    • Cordero is on the DL.

      It looks like this will be his last year as a closer/set up man.

      he’s had a great career though. 2nd most career saves??

      • this is replying to one post up about payroll parameters … of course, we’re not going to ever know that; but here’s my guess. There are virtually none! AA is gaming not just other teams; but Farrell; Beeson; Rogers; the media and us. And why not? Any restriction that would not allow him to do all of the above, would make him less effective. He’s proved his point with the first 3 on the list and it’s really just the media and us who are pissed that we can’t know what’s really happening. As someone else said, “Ninja – Juggler – On a tightrope” Lots of spills and thrills ahead folks. ESPECIALLY if you stop imagining Rogers as a limit and imagine them as the Golden Goose. Evidence yet to appear. Now I’ve reduced this discussion to which way you want to bet on THAT.

        • WAAAAH. That smelly old dog just broke my favourite hobby-horse. What will I ride now?

        • Hmm interesting point. However, AA would make his job a lot easier if he could afford to get depth in the OF & pitching staff.

          Why would he purposely prevent himself from building a better team?

          He knows that JP got fired for BJ Ryan & Vernon Wells contracts when they failed to perform, so I can see him avoiding a 120 million to Darvish or 240 million to Fielder,

          but why would he be afraid to sign edwin Jackson for 11 million 1 year?

          Is he afraid of clubhouse reaction, such as Romero demanding to be paid more than edwin jackson?

  18. If I were running this place I’d ban anyone who said Rogers or Koolaid.

    Saturday pm game was a beautiful example of baseball at its perplexing, frustrating, infuriating and ultimately enjoyable Best. People were hating on Ricky for allowing a run; on the AAA offence for not scoring any. In the 5th Ricky loads the bases with mostly walks and against most of us genius’ wishes leaves him in with the bases loaded to face Michael Taylor (do we still believe we should have kept him?) That at bat is perfect at defining what baseball can be.

    We all shit ourselves when JF puts Jesse C in to face the bottom of the order instead of leaving CJ in for that inning. His Vegas numbers suggest he is a pretty good reliever, but he tends to get emotionally blown away on the big stage and it happened again, almost,. but not quite.

    The Vegas 3 almost got us a victory and KJ “killed” it OR was unsuccessful against a very good reliever. Setting the stage for Edwin to just take over the entire game and win it by destroying the concentration of that reliever. It was totally fucking awesome. I was watching the Oakland feed and the commentator’s were right on it (thank you Scott Hatteberg). They gave Edwin full props for doing what he did at each stage of the demolition.

    This is way more than just another win … it is the potential of one or two more major distractions/forces on the base paths. Opposing pitchers could be having nightmares BEFORE they have to play us. The 20% increase in attendance is proof that this excitement is growing. Just because a few people want to grind on the Rogers organ does not mean that the growing beat of the BJ drum won’t come through.

    It’s a new morning. I drank the Koolaid.

    • Like it

    • Very good post. Baseball is a great game. I agree with most of your points.

      It’s funny how I used to get so mad at edwin when he played 3B, but now he has turned it around at 1B & he hi hitting very well.

      Has Jessee Chavez always looked that scared on the mound? I always think he will break down & cry after he gives up a hit.

      • Not nearly as scared as Jonny Mac looked at the plate.

        He looked like a guy who won a chance to face ML pitching in a raffle at work.

  19. I know what you mean. I went through this with the Jays in the 80′s and by 1985 you could see it coming, but it took another 7 years. Talk about building a Core group, which also changed along the way. People were so frustrated with Pat Gillick during those years for not doing it fast enough.

    Here’s a good one … there are people hating on Dirk Hayhurst for being too negative on the Jays. What a zoo the human realm is … zooming in on the Baseball DIAMOND; shows all the facets.

    • It took 8 years to develop a team from expansion to division winner.

      Do you think AA can build a team to be a division winner in 8 years?

      • Less

        • agreed. Less.

          We’re not even half way there and you’re demanding he be fired.
          Do you not see what will happen when the Lansing 3 reach AA…
          Likely One of them will be as advertised, (my guess Sanchez)
          One will be ok,
          and hopefully we’ve fooled one to get traded with others in an all-star player we need to fill a hole.

          the closer we get, the more options we’re going to have.
          It’s year 3… give him 8…

  20. Gillick had it way easier than AA back then simply because the negative, impatient, and irrational fans didn’t have the social media to build on their agenda.
    I’ve said it many times. It took Gillick EIGHT years to build a playoff team, and 15 for a winner.
    He’s a Hall of Fame GM.
    Alex has been on the job for 3 years changing the whole culture of the organization in that time and ignorant negative fans only point out his failings.

    • OK, why don’t you keep that name. I like Little looper .

      I am curious about the CBA in the late 70′s & 80′s.

      Was it harder to become a free agent back then? What about salary arbitration?

      It seems to me that it would be harder to build a competitive team in the 70′s & 80′s because you had to focus on internal development.

      • Oakville69.

        It’s post like these that make it clear you are joking.

        To build a SUSTAINABLE world series championship caliber team, you have to focus on internal development.
        This is PHASE ONE of the rebuild process.

        To build a LUCKY playoff team that will be a one and done, you buy it through trading your farm players and signing high priced free agents.

        BOTH ways may get you a world series, but which way would you prefer for your team.

  21. I’m really Parkes.

    Gotcha!

  22. @STANLEY CUP

    Thanks for your reply. I will respond in CAPS.
    Stanley’s Cup says:
    08.05.12 @ 12:40 AM EDT

    @Oakville
    1) 4-7 years is the average. Not many players get drafted at 18 and are regulars at 22. Most players come up at 25ish. I think Utley and Howard were 27. So yes the average is 4-7 and closer to the 7 side when you draft highschool players like AA has decided to do. So you are wrong on this count. Sorry dude facts are facts and the fact that you are ignoring them and stating outliers does not strengthen your case.

    OK. I DO SEE THAT THE JAYS HAVE SOME YOUNG REGULARS LIKE LAWRIE,ALVAREZ
    I CONCEDE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT AVERAGE AGE OF A REGULAR MLB PLAYER.

    2) Sierra was never top 15 and Hech struggled to crack top 15 depending on your source. Gose and Hutch were, on all lists. So what is your point?

    GOSE,HUTCH,ALVAREZ ARE TOP RANKED PROSPECTS WHO ARE PROBABLY BEING BROUGHT UP TOO SOON BEFORE THEY CAN HELP THE TEAM. UNFORTUNATELY NO ONE ELSE ON THE TEAM.

    3) As for your statistics on the Toronto area, you do realize that in cities in the states baseball is king thus 50% of the population is avid supporters. In Toronto the Jays are lucky to get 15%. There is your difference. Toronto is Hockey first, Basketball, and probably soccer ranks above the Jays on the pecking order. As for stating Canada, out west the Mariners are probably the most popular team and east coast has a huge Red Sox following. Not to mention again that baseball isn’t very popular in Canada. So actually the Jays would probably figure in the bottom 3rd of market share. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    I AGREE THAT BASEBALL IS MORE POPULAR IN THE USA NOW. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN 4 MILLION FANS AT SKYDOME IN THE EARLY 1990′S? BASEBALL IS BECOMING MORE POPULAR NOW BASED ON ATTENDANCE,TV RATINGS ETC.

    IF JAYS RETURN TO PLAYOFFS, THEN BASEBALL WILL BE VERY POPULAR AGAIN IN ONTARIO.

    TV RATINGS FOR SPORTSNET ARE AMONG THE HIGHEST IN THE MLB.

    4) The Jays loss at LF/DH/2B? Is this a joke? Lind is still here, and so is EE. So DH is the same. LF was manned by a dismal Thames (Rajai Davis was better) and Snider was my favourite but hardly irreplacable. Not to mention these are easy positions to fill as they require little skill on the defensive side.If those are the teams issues they are actually doing really well.

    JAYS HAVE NOT HAD A ABOVE AVERAGE LF IN SEVERAL YEARS. I DON’T THINK F.LEWIS,RIVERA,PATTERSON,RAJAI DAVIS, THAMES ARE EVEN AVERAGE LF.

    WHY DO JAYS HAVE TROUBLE FILLING LF?

    EDWIN AS FULL TIME 1B OR DH IS GOOD.

    LIND IS BELOW AVERAGE HITTER IN 2012 . HE WAS IN VEGAS FOR PART OF THE YEAR & NOW SEEMS TO HAVE A CHRONIC BACK INJURY.

    JAYS NEED A NEW DH FOR 2013.

    KJ IS BELOW AVERAGE 2B SINCE MAY 2012.

    I THINK THEY WILL USE HECHEVERRIA IN 2013.

    5) As for your plan, have you ever heard that plans can have different phases? Phase one acquire as much young talent as possible. That means signing useless releivers let them walk and get extra draft picks. Under all counts this was a successful phase. Phase 2: Start filling holes in the system (weakness Bullpen, depth LF ie trade LF for Bullpen) and this is probably the phase the Jays are still on. Phase 3 acquire elite talent (by spending money and prospect) to push team over the top. this will probably occur in the offseason and next year. You aren’t very experienced in drafting plans are you? Just because your pea sized brain can’t understand the plan doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

    I UNDERSTAND THAT THE JAYS ARE IN PHASE 2, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME BY THE TIME THEY ARE READY TO COMPETE, BAUTISTA WILL BE DECLINING, OTHER PLAYERS MAY GET HURT OR REGRESS. LOOK AT ROMERO THIS YEAR.

    As for the farm system you should never be allowed to comment on it again, unless you actually do research on it. Here is a starting point to gain knowledge: ESPN (Keih Law) Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, Minorleagueball.com and even Fangraphs. Read the organizational rankings and hear what th experts think of the system. Only then should you be allowed to even think about another comment about the system.

    I DO READ THESE THINGS, BUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THEY ARE 80% CORRECT.

    IF KEITH LAW WAS SO BRILLIANT, WOULDN’T A TEAM HIRE HIM AS A SUPER SCOUT.??

    PROSPECT RANKINGS ARE AFFECTED BY SCOUTS OPINIONS. SCOUTS MAKE MONEY FROM JAYS , SO THERE IS AN INCENTIVE TO INFLATE VALUE OF JAYS PROSPECTS. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE ALL CORRUPT, BUT I DO SEE SCOUTS ARE FAVORABLE TO THE JAYS.

    • The difference between the Snider V (Gose/Sierra) call ups is that when Snider was called up he was expected to produce and help carry the team. When he struggled he would then be forced to sit on the bench for long stretches. Basically he was unable to find his groove, and had too much pressure as a 19/20 year old kid. Basically forced to fail. Gose and Sierra on the other hand are given regular playing time and whether they fail or not they are inserted into the lineup. This helps them work through the issues that Snider had to sit and dwell on. Not only that but they are hitting in the back of the order, the Jays are out of the race so there is little pressure for instant results, and they are being put in positions to succeed (protecting Gose from LHP).

      As for ratings, do you know why ratings and attendance have gone up? That is because AA brought hope to the franchise, the team is stacked with young talent, and they have one of the best offences in baseball. They are now a young exciting team, and the man you have been ripping on (AA) is the same guy who caused all this interest back into baseball. So if you think selling the farm to play a one game playoff is going to create buzz in the city, imagine when the Jays got 4 years in a row winning the division from the Sox and Yanks. How about that buzz? You only get consistent winning by being able to develop talent internally. Even the Yankees have to as the best player on there team (Cano) was developed.

      The reason why the Jays are filling LF with marginal players is because Snider failed in the position, however last year Thames succeeded. On top of that AA is trying to build talent on this team with athletes. Athletes usually play in the middle of the diamond (CF (Rasmus/Gose/Marsinik/DJ Davis) SS (Escobar, Hech) C (D’Arnaud, Jimenez, Nessy) and pitcher. The guys who fit into LF are the guys who are less skilled defensively, ie when Gose is ready Rasmus will probably take RF and Bautista to LF. Then the Jays will have a formidable OF defence and LF. As for 1B EE is there, DH is one of those positions in which it is the finishing touches. The Jays when the team is on the brink will look at adding this piece.

      As for 2nd base, it is an issue however other teams have too many and the Jays can probably work out a trade if they decide against bringing Kelly back.

      The declining phase, for some players will also be the ascention of others. If Bautista slows down he can still be moved to LF/1B/DH and will still have his plate approach (high OBP) and power. So I think Bautista is under contract for 3 more years and should be effective for all of them. If he likes where this team is going he may sign another 2-3 year deal. However he is in tremendous shape, and if Dunn/Konerko are still hitting homers in his late 30′s so can Bautista.

      As for prospects, yes these guys are scewed by scouts but they also go out and wach them for themselves. As well not all of them use the same scouts, and why would you think the Jays have more pull in promoting there prospects then say the Yanks? It makes no sense. Yes there is bias but these are all independent scouts thus do not need to make up rankings to appease an organization. On top of that if they did need to pump up an organizations prospects I feel like the Jays would be low on the list.

      As for Keith Law he was offered a job high up in the Astros head office and turned it down. So yes he does have the skills to evaluate talent.

  23. What infuriates me is the media who inflate these negative perceptions.
    Also the trolls who enjoy getting us worked up. You might know what you’re saying is nonsense but there are people who read it who actually believe what you say and base their opinions on it.

    I usually like Griff but why on earth would he say “the honeymoon is over”.
    We haven’t even reached PHASE 2 of the blueprint for the player development plan.

    Jeff Blair… enough said.

    1050 radio is clearly trolling for ratings with the negative Jays fans .

    It really does feel like a civil war battle among Jays fans and what’s frustrating to the rational is the fear that the negative irrational ones will actually be heard and force us to deviate from the blueprint too soon.

    • There’s this idiotic idea in the culture for some time that fairness requires both sides to be represented as if they are equal. They may be opposite logically, but they are surely not equal. For example. Light and Dark are thought to be opposites and logically they are. But light can go where darkness is, but NOT the other way around. Most logically opposite pairs are like this. So there is a criticism of a management decision like why the fuck was Jesse C in there instead of Jansen? It does not necessarily mean and should not be pushed to the point of trying to prove the manager is deranged. We clearly know less than he does. Maybe he wants to find out if Jesse has conquered his fear and will risk a game in the bigger game to do so. I’d give him credit for balls if that is the case.

      So let’s see if we can recognize the difference between honest criticism of a point here and there and the wholesale condemnation of the owners, management and anybody stupid enough to play for such turds. THAT’s what the fuck we’re trying to discuss here this morning.

      Thank you all for getting along with this … best discussion in quite some time after a few ugly examples of the other earlier in the week.

      • Did Farrel explain to the media why he used Jesse Chavez instead of keeping Casey Janssen in the game?

        I am weary of always deferring to the view that all of the decisions made by Farrell or AA or Rogers is correct.

        Sports success/failure is measured by wins or losses.

        You can debate whether building a team quickly or slowly is better.

        There isn’t much point to have this blog if all Stoeten or Parkes did was defend every decison by Farell or AA

        • My point is that lots of mistakes are and will be made … there are too many dimensions in play to control, for instance, suppose that we got Gio for Lawrie or some other high price and in ALE he is only half as effective as in NLE for whatever reason. Would we be better off. I’d rather keep the powder dry for now and get at least one of Oakland’s other good young pitchers in the off season. They have more than they can use or protect.

          So, ok, a lot of the discussions here are related to timing which none of us, even AA, Beeston can completely know or game. I’m for trying to calm down the understandable impatience at this particular point, today, because I don’t think there’s all that much can be done today other than explore the unexpected arrival of Adeny, Moises and even Gose … only because of all the injuries are we seeing them, which is different than rushing their development. Everyone, especially them can understand this. It’s actually better than a September call-up …. I think the team has moved ahead more than expected this year BECAUSE of the injuries … not in the win column, but there is now a better chance to compete in 2013 than there was before, because more is known than we could have expected, especially if for some crazy reason we had made a run for it. People who think that 1 or 3 games of what they call “meaningful” baseball in October are incredibly short-sighted when they discard the potential of SIX MONTHS of meaningful baseball if you don’t deliberately skew your vision that way.

          • I’d like to see an impact player as much as anyone, but have been relieved it wasn’t Yu, Gio, or Cecil Jr.
            OK, I COULD SEE AA GOING AFTER A YOUNG PITCHER IN THE OFFSEASON, BUT NO PINEDA -LAWRIE DEALS.

            HECH OR GOSE & SIERRA FOR A YOUNG SP???

            I’m happy to consider that if all other things lined up, paying Cliff Lee’s contract could make sense both long and short term.

            HOW DOES THE CLUBHOUSE REACT TO CLIFF LEE AT 20 MILLION PLUS PER SEASON SHOWING UP??

            WHAT ABOUT HALLADAY AT 20 MILLION? WOULD HE GET MORE RSPECT ON THE TEAM THAN A CLIFF LEE?

            I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HALLADAY COME BACK & LEAD THE JAYS TO A PLAYOFF SPOT.

            But do I need or even want that to happen? I do not have nearly enough information. I would not want to be a Yankee fan right now facing the contracts they have and not really having had anything near the results expected from them.
            TRUE, BUT YANKEES FANS EXPECT PLAYOFFS EACH YEAR. THEY USUALLY FAIL BUT AT LEAST THEY GET THERE.

            It’s way more fun, for me, to play with the idea of future gazelles than a bunch of elephants in the room for years to come.

            RASMUS IS A GAZELLE IN CF. WOULD HE GET ANGRY IF JAYS SENT HIM TO LF TO PROTECT GOSE IN CF??

            I TRUST COLBY IN CF.

    • I’m totally with you on that one. I’m disappointed in Griff on this too. Just because what I want hasn’t happened yet, does not mean that finding a scapegoat will hasten my desire. I’d like to see an impact player as much as anyone, but have been relieved it wasn’t Yu, Gio, or Cecil Jr. I’m happy to consider that if all other things lined up, paying Cliff Lee’s contract could make sense both long and short term. But do I need or even want that to happen? I do not have nearly enough information. I would not want to be a Yankee fan right now facing the contracts they have and not really having had anything near the results expected from them. It’s way more fun, for me, to play with the idea of future gazelles than a bunch of elephants in the room for years to come.

      • John Farrell is in his 2nd year as manager and seems to be learning and growing better as it goes, in spite of a lot of unexpected challenges. Think about how much Joe Girardi was criticized in his early years. It’s plain to see that he is better now and some of his most severe critics are coming around. Fan590 interviewed Jim Leland and he was quite clear that things in the clubhouse have changed a LOT in recent years and the ways that worked in the past no longer work. I like that we have a manager who is growing up with his mostly young players and I really like that the Red Sox fans are already drooling about getting him in a couple of years. HEY!

        • and while I’m on a roll … let’s dial back to December when a few of us might have thought our chances against the Red Sox might not be so good because of money etc. Both teams have really been Whammed this year … now who would you rather be at this point, prejudice aside?

          Baseball, the Perfect Game!

          • Red Sox obviously. They are simply willing to spend to fix problems. That being said I fucking hate them.

          • Baseball is a fun game because very few would have predicted the rise of the A’s ,White Sox & Orioles this year.

        • Do you think Farrell would decline an offer of contract extension from the Jays to take a manager job with the Red Sox?

          I listen to weei red sox station & they hate Bobby Vaentine.

          The sports show I listened to said that Farrell would impose discipline on the pitching staff & not allow chicken wings & beer in the clubhouse.

          He said the players are afraid of Farrell but laugh at Valentine.

          • I think it is hilarious to think that Farrell would be interested in the steaming mess that BRS have become and especially what will remain after Valentine. Anyone who allows himself to ride into a town as a Saviour is in for a Crucifixion … all of what you say though points to the advantage we have that is hard for us to see as John is learning how to apply his potential to a real and constantly changing situation. As long as no high-paid prima donna is plunked into his room, I have confidence he will be fine and maybe even great.

    • WELCOME BACK MR LOOPER

      What infuriates me is the media who inflate these negative perceptions.
      Also the trolls who enjoy getting us worked up. You might know what you’re saying is nonsense but there are people who read it who actually believe what you say and base their opinions on it.

      WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO AGREE WITH AA’S PLAN?

      HOW LONG DO FANS HAVE TO WAIT FOR AA’S PLAN TO SUCCEED OR FAIL?

      WHY DOES ANY GM HAVE TO BE PROTECTED FROM THE FAN BASE?

      I AM SURE AA WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE HE HAS MADE MISTAKES.

      I usually like Griff but why on earth would he say “the honeymoon is over”.
      We haven’t even reached PHASE 2 of the blueprint for the player development plan.

      PERHAPS GRIFF FEELS THAT THE TEAM CAN DO BETTER THAN 500?

      Jeff Blair… enough said.

      HE’S STRANGE TO READ. HIS ATTACKS ON TRAVIS SNIDER AS A PASTY WHITE GUY WERE UNCALED FOR.

      1050 radio is clearly trolling for ratings with the negative Jays fans .

      I HEARD WHEELER GET INTO A FIGHT WITH STOETEN.

      It really does feel like a civil war battle among Jays fans and what’s frustrating to the rational is the fear that the negative irrational ones will actually be heard and force us to deviate from the blueprint too soon.

      IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE RATIONAL.

      THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO BUILD A WINNING TEAM.

      THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT BEESTON SAYS DIFFERENT THINGS THAN AA.

      WHY DOES BEESTON SAY PLAYOFFS 3 TIME IN 5 YEARS?

      AA IS MUCH MORE CAUTIOUS ABOUT PREDICTIONS.

      BEESTON SAYS 120 MILLION BUDGET. AA SAYS PAYROLL PARAMETERS. ACTUAL BUDGET AROUND 80-85 MILLION INCLUDING MARK TEAHAN’S CONTRACT

  24. Oakville69

    Sometimes I read posts on here and think ‘that’s the dumbest thing I’ve read” and then when I look at who wrote it, it says Oakville69.

    Very rarely, but sometimes, I’ll read a post and think good point then see it was by Oakville69.

    After following you the past few days it seems you flip flop a lot. You even argue one way then you counter your own argument in your next post. I’m talking about your real posts too.

    Please stop trolling for reactions and trying to incite people. What you’re doing does have the potential to negatively impact the long term developmental plan.

    • I’m not sure whether Oakville has multiple personality disorder, or if, what makes this place so much fun … he/she is being impersonated by one or more others. It’s like we’re trying to steal signs and still don’t know what pitch is going to arrive, but have to start our swing anyway in case it’s a heater.

      • LOL!. The problem is that this site allows anyone to use my name.

        One guy has admitted to using my name & several other names to make silly posts.

        I do like the analogy of never knowing what type of pitch is coming.

        I am trying to stay as consistent as possible & acknowledging other people’s opinions & facts.

        For the record I live in Oakville a block away from Scott Rolen’s old home & was born in 1969 & am a male.

    • Hello Looper,

      This board would be much easier to read if you stuck to one screen name as opposed to using my screen name & make outrageous statements.

      I doubt AA reads this blog so whatever I say or you say will have any effect on the team’s development.

      The team will be judged on long term wins/losses.

      I think I have been pretty consistent in being upset about trading Travis Snider, wanting a veteran pitcher from March & a big bat like Ortiz to help the team.

      I am a flexpack holder & spend a lot of money at the games, so I like to enjoy the team I am watching.

      • To say you want a SP, and a big bat like Ortiz is fine and a natural part of being a fan.
        To be upset about a player you like being traded is fine.
        To even be emotional and convince yourself it was a bad trade is bad, but understandable so I never comment on those.

        What I do find offensive, is manipulating arguments to spread nonsense about management having no plan and that our organization as a whole is worse off today than 3 years ago.

        • Hi Looper,

          Thank You for toning down any personal attacks.

          I welcome any debate on the current roster/prospects debates about who is the best in LF/CF etc…

          “What I do find offensive, is manipulating arguments to spread nonsense about management having no plan and that our organization as a whole is worse off today than 3 years ago.”

          I will concede that Rogers ownership of the team & the interviews given by Beeston infuriate me. Beeston’s attitude of demanding that fans show up & spend money before they put a competitive team on the field enrages me.

          I don’t know of any other entertainment business that asks customers to pay more before they put on a show.

          I think AA s more honest about the team than Beeston with his pollyannish view of playoffs 3 times in 5 years, Money will be there except it isn’t, naturall grass at Rogers Centre etc.. It is outrageous he gets away with lies like that.

          AA generally refrains from predictions but is honest about the conseuences to him personally of spending 100 million on a a free agent if it flops.

          The organization as a whole seems to be better off in 2012 than 2009, but looking at wins of the MLB team whic is the ultimate calclation, I think AA so far has peaked at 85 wins in 2010.

          I would like to see the team beat 88 wins from 1998 with a fake vietbam vet running the team.

          My concern with AA’s latest move is that he traded depth at LF ( Snider/Thames) for bullpen help.

          I always thought bullpen relievers were easier to find than LF’s.

          If LF’s were so easy to find why has the team not found one??

          • You’re going to hear more stupid things from Beeston but there is a reason for it.

            1. Make the playoffs 3 in five. He has a very good/great chance of doing that. What you need to understand is the two years we don’t make the playoffs are this year and next while we accumulate and build. Then we should have a good run and 3 in a with a much better team than today is possible.

            2. Vietnam is a strange thing to bring up but an good segway into why Beeston has to say dumb things. He is a brilliant CEO.
            He gets paid more than every poster on this site combined. He doesn’t accidently say stupid things in public.
            He wants irrational fans to get mad at him and lay off pressuring AA’s rebuilding plan.
            America did that with Vietnam. You think they lost that war? They couldn’t have won that war because it wasn’t a win/lose war. They even admit there was no plan or goal for that war.
            You think they care about vietnam?
            It was too fool the dumbass Commies to get distracted to devote resources to that dumb war so that they’d eventually go bust and communism destroyed long term.

            What is out in the public for all to see, is what they want you to see. Not what is real. You don’t have to have seen The Matrix to understand this.

            It’s like a jays PR department “leaking” Escobar is available. But wait, Jays management is so quiet it couldn’t have come from them… exactly.

            So the word gets out. We’d trade Escobar for pitching. A rival GM says we’ll give you a pitcher. AA offers Escobar. Rival GM knows better because word is out, so he insists they want that young stud Hech. AA acts mad and insists on Escobar. Rival GM won’t budge. AA reluctantly trades Hech, (who can’t hit and is PR hype) to rival GM for a SP
            Somehow AA got to keep his actual MLB talent Escobar.

            It’s a poker game son. Recognize the truth from the bluffs and the distractions.

            Beeston is taking heat to distract idiots from getting impatient with the plan.
            In 2 years once we’re competitive and actually have several real chances to win, you would have forgotten about all this and you’ll be kissing Beestons sockless feet thanking Rogers for a winning team.

            You watch. While Alex builds the right way, Beeston will be directing your anger.
            That is why he makes millions.

            Oh, and just for fun…
            Old bulpen relievers are easier to find. YOUNG AND CHEAP and controllable relievers are not.

            You think they actually wanted to find a stud leftfielder this year?
            With colby in centre and jose in right, where would there be an open spot for tryouts during a player develpment year?
            They wanted to see what they had in Davis,Thames, and to a lesser extent Snider.
            What they saw were two serviceable LF who could easily play on this team, but who would not become the superstars we need to compete with Yankees.

            They would plug up our audition spot.
            So we traded them for young relief pitching.

            Which is the easiest outfield spot to fill? LF.
            What is the outfied spot we left open to try out our talent?
            Left field.
            We hope we can fill LF internally. Save dollars with a Minimum contract in that spot to allocate money to SP WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT.
            It seems like the auditions are still in progress.
            So if they feel like they can contend next year, then you will see them get an LF next off season since nobody has yet to run with it.

            If they think they can’t contend…

            If they can’t contend They’ll pretend they tried really hard to shut some of you up, but really they will leave it open for tryouts.
            When they are ready, LF will be filled with a stud, from an internal audition or from outside.

          • True story about those 88 wins.

            JP was furious about it.
            I met him in Clearwater (outside Dunedin) at a bar called Sandals. He was drunk.

            He told me the worst thing to happen to the team was getting 88 wins and raising everyones expectations. He said that 88 wins forced him to appease the fans and go for it when they weren’t ready.

            This was JP and he even understood when you’re devoloping wins aren’t what you should watch.

            Then, and swear to god this is true, he started trashing Carlos Delgado and trying to ruin his reputation.

            He was a repulsive and clueless man.

          • oops, just noticed you were talking about 1998.

            Wrong year. I was talking about the wins when we had Carlos Tosca as manager.
            Those wins cost him his job.

  25. Picture in Picture alert:

    100 M Finals (The Best 10 Seconds in All of Life – well okay, In Sports)

    during the Jays game today (roughly 4:50 pm)

    USAINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

  26. The new market inefficiency may be bullpen relievers now that the CBA has changed and almost entirely reversed what used to be possible there. I suspect he has a plan in mind about left field either a trade or one of the shifts mentioned in the discussions above. Today, I want to see what MS can do with it (even though Rajai will probably play there) Brad Lincoln is not just any bullpen reliever – he throws with authority and that huge curve reminds of AJ at his best. Also best not to let other teams see that as a starter until, if and when he has a developed 3rd pitch. For now he can be the “ace in the hole” as far a jays bullpen is concerned and a lot of joy to watch make other teams look foolish. The teams that go a long way have always had dynamic, dynamite, lights-out bullpens so I want one of those for us, especially if it can be made of core pieces that are here for awhile and can be continuously augmented by failed starting prospects (most great bullpen arms were once that)

    • That’s a good point. The new CBA & playoff format makes teams reluctant to sign an old reliever because you can’t get draft picks when they leave at the end of the year.

      AA tried to use the new rules by trading for Santos.

      I was worried about Santos because i thought it was weird to have a short stop converted to pitcher & closer.

      are there any other cases of position players being converted to successful closers/starters??

      Isn’t it more likely to have a pitcher being converted to a position player??

      • Come on Oakville. Please be serious.
        Even when you’re making a point that helps the rationalists you get it wrong.

        AA did not “use the new rules to trade for Santos.” He traded for Santos because of the new rules.

        What you are saying is he recognaized the new competitive landscape and adapted to the new baseball realities.

        • @ Looper.

          What’s wrong with what I said.

          The new rules in the CBA don’t giv as much value to acquiring reliever like Dotel, Gregg etc & letting them walk at year end then getting a type b pick when they sign with another team.

          Now, you don’t get picks when relievers leave, so you build the bullpen internally or trae for them.

          you can still get them as free agents but they aren’t as valuable as they used to be.

      • Oakville69,
        I replied before reading the second half of your message.
        My God man. Are you really a Jays fan?

        Are there any exaples of a postion player converting to a successful starter?

        Have you ever heard of Dave Steib?

        Please son. Please.
        Just stop and listen.

        • @ Looper.

          I started following the Jays in mid 2008. I was an Expos fan for many years.

          Thanks for the info about Steib.

          It seems to be rare for a position player these days to become a starter or converted to a closer.

          santos is one of them.

          • How come you’re now arguing rationally instead of hyperbole?

            Yes, they are rare.

            What you’re not following, in this discussion or in the way the Jays are building, is the aspect of cause and effect.

            At least you are thinking though. That’s awesome to be able to debate rationally.

  27. The future of pen use is the three in one concept. what teams will do (both for effectiveness and cost control) is to take two big armed pitchers who lack the type of deep repertoire and/or endurance to be able to throw 7 or 8 innings and piggyback the guys together like they do in the minors. Get six or 7 innings out of these guys and then turn if over to the pen.

    for example, the jays, rather than spend on a mid or top of the rotation starter (when I say spend Im referring to money OR prospect currency OR both) could take strohman and lincoln and have them combine to be a solid starting pitcher. these are guys that can certainly go multiple innings but likely lack the repertoire or endurance to go 7 or more.

    so you take these two guys and let them go all out for 3 innings every fifth day (perhaps 4 innings if they are feeling it)

    they will dominate and they will be cheap…

    you would expand your bulpen but remember that you are also removing one starter from teh equation…so its not going to be crippling.

    i see that as the NEW market inefficiency.

    right now teams look at the pen as some entity to preserve your lead..often times in games in whcih an inferior starter began the game..and took the majority of the innings.

    why not use the pen as a tool to OBTAIN a lead in starting a game?

    • You’re kinda on to something.
      The new market inefficiency is defnately the bullpen.
      Starters who are amazing one or two times through an order but struggle when a batter has faced him earlier.
      3 inning relievers.
      Janson could.
      Lincoln courd.
      Happ could.
      Charlie V could.
      All of them were and could be starters.

      4 piggybackers (don’t always follow the same starter but pitch every 4 games, not days)
      2 extra bullpen guys or situational guys.
      Mathis in emergency. lol
      1 good one inning guy
      1 closer.

      So have your 5 starters go 6 innings. Have your piggyback go 3.
      Then a closer/good one inning guy go the one every other day.
      Use the 2 extra guys on days it’s not effective/blowout.

      • Math is off with 6 innings but you get the point. Have great relievers who can stretch out. Kinda like a second rotation in the bullpen.

  28. Here’s the thing … Moneyball is not about OBP … that was how Billy Beane did it a decade ago and pretty soon everyone copied it because it was a valid point of view … and maybe market inefficiencies is not really the best way to describe it. I like to think of it as stopping doing what is not working for most other teams no matter how long it has been believed to be The Way. Baseball is so tradition-bound and some of it is just stupidly false at this point. So stop the proven tried and failed and do what has yet to be tried. So bullpen pieces are believed to be trading chips (or were until last year) AA got a wake-up call this year when his perceived bullpen depth disappeared in a week and the call-ups were terrible – unplanned for obsolescence so he, being “quick” paid attention and has already addressed this quite well – he can’t stop JF from using JC in strange and inhuman ways – If you didn’t assume it is easy to get bullpen arms at the last minute and PLANNED a great bullpen core to build around, that is sustainable year in and out. BINGO! maybe ??? but certainly not retarded.

    • Market inefficiencies only works when you are the only one aware of the parameters you use to find the inefficiency.
      Once it’s out, like moneyball, you lose that inefficiency and therefore it’s effectiveness.
      When nobody looked closely at OPS, and you were the only one to spot it, then you found an inefficiency and that strategy works.
      Once everyone replicates it, there is no value.

      So here is the dilemna. The smart fans who watch closely know what AA is doing.
      To the casual fans, or those who aren’t seing the whole picture, they can’t understand.
      AA and Beeston can”t tell you their formula. If they did, they would lose their secret for spotting the market inefficiencies and their plan would blow up.

      Trust me Oakville69… from what I can observe, they are on the right path.

      • @Little Looper.

        So beeston & AA have a secret plan to get good players @ below FMV.??

        OK, but does that mean we won’t know if the secret plan works until they get into the playoffs?

        If it doesn’t work & they don’t make the playoffs , when will they tell us the plan failed?

        • It’s not really a secret since AA says that with every transaction he makes.

          What time frame do you think is reasonable. We gave Pat Gillick 8 years. Let’s see if we can give Alex 6. That’s less years but there is now wild card sports.

          Seems reasonable.

  29. What’s up with Carlos V.?

  30. Can you guys make a point in under 1000 words please?

    I have to get out my magnifying glass to read the comments as it is.
    Do you know how long it takes to read all this?
    Have some sympathy for an old man for fucks sakes.

    Actually keep it up, I enjoy the discussion.
    Fills the time in between my sponge baths.
    God damn nurse uses cold water.
    I think she does it on purpose.
    Produces shrinkage.
    Makes her laugh.
    Bitch.

  31. Jenkins called up to big club.

  32. 10 year mega contracts to 30 year old “stars” …. there is a recipe that mostly doesn’t work. Can you say Johan Santana anyone? or … on and on and on … Until someone refuses to do that, everyone thinks they have no choice. NHL owners are trying collectively to stop it.

    So let’s see … how many major league teams do not have a bad contract? We all know one who doesn’t. (Lind’s is too short to count at this point) Why would that team be willing to take on such an albatross?

    The Plan as I understand it, is to develop players and then extend them into what would have been their FA years. This can be done and before long those FA’s will be willing to take 5 years again….. I’m not sure Brian Cashman will be willing to give 10 again given how all that has gone. His owner’s well? Hubris anyone?

    While Bees comment has irritated people he has not lied. 3 in 5 starting when? 2013? Could happen. And wouldn’t we rather they tried for that? Real grass? How to get that one moving unless someone says it out loud. I can’t imagine Bees is in his position wanting to have an epic fail – a guy who goes to meetings in bare feet? Nah! He’s a player, watch him play. See how far he gets

  33. It’s not a bad thing for rajai to score in first inning, right?

  34. You dont see that everyday

  35. Here’s a short one from me. Business guys want cheap, 500 pro teams … against that background a lot of this new stuff has a chance to be a difference that makes a difference. It IS improvisation (within a plan)

  36. Go eat a dick, Reddick.

  37. Was that Bartolo Colons twin sisters?

  38. I have been a Jays/baseball fan for about 25 years and I do not recall such shuffling of the bullpen in all that time. Up, down, designated for assignment, rotation, etc. Often based on one bad performance! It does make me wonder about AA’s plan.
    Seriously, can anyone else remember anything like this?

    • They’ve never had a year with many injuries. It’s more a product of getting healthy arms up then shuffle guys after bad outings.

    • I have not seen it with the Jays before no, although I have followed the Jays off and on since the start, and I can’t recall it with other MLB teams either. But, baseball has changed so that more and more pitchers are used and the distinction between starters and relievers is blurred. Ditto for “closers” as has been discussed on this board at length.

      OTOH, I saw a lot of AAA baseball when they had it in Vancouver, and sometimes that team had freaking busloads of pitchers going between AA, AAA, and the major league team (usually Oakland but also Milwaukee for a while). And the manager used them — one bad AB and they were pulled, six or seven pitchers in a game, often.

  39. not like this … but we’re not dealing with older players like was usual before. These young guys either step up, which means strikes, not balls/walks or go down. Because of that we have Loup looking good and a bunch of guys who KNOW they have more work to do. None of these guys except Scott Richmond are anything like the relievers who used to go up and did not have options oftimes so had to be released if it didn’t work. I think it is not evidence of no plan but indicative of how it’s gonna be.

    • During our competitive years guys who were in our pen.

      John Cerrutti
      Jimmy Key
      Todd Stottlemyre.
      Al Leiter
      David Wells.
      Pat Hentgen.

      These were our pen guys BEFORE they were starters. These were the quality arms we had in the pen ready to fill in when an injury happened.

      The point is this. We spent 8 years developing players and a DEEP AS HELL roster.
      We are not there yet but we are close.
      The pen is filling up with quality long arms/potential starters ready to back up.

      There is a plan.

  40. the thrills and spills of “Hilight Reel Gose”

  41. Romero had gross numbers when the Jaus brought him up and gave him a shot. I’m hoping something similar happens with Chad Jenkins.

  42. In Utero, nobody asked you so clam it.

  43. Laffey is a fucking time bomb. He plays the “hope they hit it right at them” game a little too liberally

  44. Well, here we are, 4 to 1.

  45. Fuck Off Laffey , you just burned my retinas – I was still basking in Bolt’s 9.63 gold medal – my eyes have already forgotten that joy

  46. Umm .. A little over exhuberant celebration there ?

  47. Nice 0-2 pitch. Holy hell

  48. wtf wtffffffffffffff 0-2 pitch a HR? that’s Fuckin embarrassing on another level guys

  49. BOOOOOOOOOLT!!!!

    Oh wait, is there a game?

  50. Lmfao at laffey, he thought that hit by Carter was also gone because it was such a fucking shitty pitch

  51. atta boy Anthony Bolt – get your track shoes on here

    • I like your sentiment.

      I don’t like the name.

      Anothony Bolt sounds like an insult at first read.
      Sure, you might be stoned and it sounds cool.
      But then it sounds like your insulting him because of the bad, negative, reactionary posts from those above you.
      The negativity of their ignorance has put me in a foul mood so to suddenly have a new topic
      “ANTHONY BOLT”
      It sounds like a comement on a bad play he had.
      Then I had to think you mean Bolt as in a fast runner, not a dolt.
      those of us who think had our minds in a negative cloud, so it came across as an insult.

      My point is Anthony Bolt is genius funny! Just wrong place. Negative vibes section.

  52. Seriously .. A’s acted as if they just won the world series on that homer.. It’s the fucking third inning against team fielding a AAA lineup.. In EARLY august. That deserves a pitch to the ribs

  53. This team needs a brawl. Seriously

  54. No luck.. About four balls mashed one foot foul

  55. Reddick should get smoked but a fastball from Laffey wouldn’y hurt him anyway.
    Be nice to see some fireworks though

  56. Atta boy EE

    • Atta boy EE?
      What?
      We were in a negative, hopeless place.
      We wanted to kill our pitcher and burn down the Jays management.
      Why are you saying atta boy EE?
      Is there happiness again?

      Yes. All is right in the world.

      • Wasn’t it just a second ago that I was in a neagative world of doom?
        My god these emotions change so fast.

        My head is spinning.

  57. Fuck you, Crisp!

  58. Man, that pitch was off the plate and he still crushed it. Encarnacion continues to get better.

  59. Take that over celebrating mother fuckers

  60. So Coop is the left handed bat that gets a seat? Has Farrell seen him hit?

  61. Remember when Halladay drilled Ortiz in retaliation for Lind getting plunked? Fuck do I miss Roy. Gonna go have a little cry now…

    • Roy had an almost movie-like persona. Wouldn’t talk to a single soul on gameday. Was a beast when it came to trianing, and would bite a coachs finger off if he tried to take the ball from him in the 7th.
      He would have put the first pitch to Cespedes in the middle of his back after Reddicks classless celly.

      • Laffey has a plan. He’s going to wait for Reddick’s next at bat, muster up all his strength, rear back and fire.

        Another belt high meatball.

        I didn’t say it was much of a plan.

    • Yeah. Didn’t Halladay tell the media after tat the ball slipped when he thre it?

      Halladay was like Clint Eastwood.

      I hope AA could persuade him to come back to finish his career as a Jay or get him for next year.

      Jays Fans would go wild if Halladay came back.

      • Yes
        I would like to see Halladay in a Jays uniform. Good post.
        Let’s see who wrote it.

        Damn. It’s Oakville 69.
        He fooled me.

        Or did he.

        Yes that is what builds Championship teams Oakville! Do what the fans want and bring back a hall of fame former blue jay past his prime who is breaking down and spending time on the disabled list.

        Yes, Alex has not brought back Roy Halladay.
        He was my favorite Blue Jay. I was sitting in the front row when he pitched 8 and 2/3 innings then gave up a home run to Bobby Higginson.
        Roy Halladay is my favorite Blue Jay of all time.

        Wait a second. It’s Oakville. Let me put on my other hat and get into reality.
        I am a general manager who wants to build a sustainable world championship calaber team. I want to build a solid foundation and get players who have value which is greater than at what level they are being paid.

        Roy Halladay.

        He is yonge. He is controllable. I can see him stricking out Albert Pufols or Prince Fielder for that final out in the playoffs,
        which would be impossible as they’re both in the Americal League if we are dreaming we got Roy Halladay of our imagination.

        But how could would it be to buy a Halladay jersey when the team isn’t winning any more games?
        Rogers could use our money.

        Great point Oakville.
        You are proving you know what it takes to build champions, not fantasies that make Rogers money.

        wake up sleepy.

        • LOL!

          So now you want to bash Roy Halladay who can still pitch better than most of this rotation?

          You should not be obsessed with “young & controllable”

          Jo Jo Reyes was young & controllable.

          If the Jays reacuire Haladay he would be controllable by virtue of his contract signed through 2014 with vesting options.

          • Much like how you understand player development for a sustainable championship caliber team, you didn’t get my post.

            I would never bash Halladay. He is my favorite Jay.
            He was an elite pitcher.

            To compete for a championship in two years, Halladay is a player we could get to sell shirts, not to help a team in 2 years.

          • @ Looper

            If Halladay was available this offseason, I would go after him.

            I don’t know about waiting till 2015 to get Halladay.

            He will be a free agent in 2015, but he may be retired by then

          • If Halladay was available?

            How about if Clemons, Cy Young, and Randy Big Unit Johnson if they were availalbe, in their prime, and decided they would sign with the Jays for free.

            Let’s deal with realities sir.

            To get Halladay we would have to trade our top prospects.
            Seeing how the team is currently constructed, would you trade our prospects to get the current version of Roy plus a year older for the 2013 team?

  62. Throw over again. That half step lead looks dangerous.

  63. Oh, Gomes. Super utility everywhere but the late.

  64. How come Inge turns into Lou Gerhig when ever we play him? Baffeling.

  65. Nice turn by Hech!

  66. Hazel May ? I think Hazel did…. she looks knocked up.

  67. Hech = Jeter. Good to know. On the brightside it’s nice to see him hit a couple balls hard even if they resulted in outs.

  68. Make em pay Escobar

  69. How stupid do the A’s look now with their game 7 homer celebration in the third inning?

  70. cmon KJ, park one over Spider Monkey climbing the wall

  71. Milone’s home road splits evening out today.

  72. or KJ, just plunk one in front of Youcant Playdefencedes

  73. It’s contagious.

  74. Cheeze never tasted so good as this inning.

  75. Now if we can just get one more inning out of Laffey, we can turn it over to actual competent major league caliber pitchers.

  76. Some funny swings from Mathis.

    • No kidding. .730 OPS or not he’s still one of the worst hitters in baseball.

      • I’ll take it though. I like him behind the plate.

        • And there is always the microscopic chance that Dwayne Murphey “fixed” him.

          • Haha +1

          • Ha ha =1 for the irrationals!

            Ok. I forgot to mention in my long winded essay the

            “Murphy sucks” Wahh! from the irrationdranks.

            Murphy sucks although there is actual proof he has helped hitters Rasmus and Edwing.
            But they had outside help from their offseason?
            Sure they did son. Sure. The Jays are fools throwing money around for fun to keep a bum on the bench and you in front of your computer.

            Hire Motorolla! He’s better!
            Yes, again you know what it takes to be a successful coach and those who have actual experience do not.

            If Motorolla was so great, and is doing wonders with our minor leagues, how come when they get here into the major leagues they can’t hit and are ill prepared.

            All I hear is gose can’t hit.
            Hech can’t hit

            So hire their coach who didn’t coach them right!
            To fire the coach who created Bautista?

            Good post.

            • Uh my post wasn’t about not having faith in Murphys teaching it was not having faith in Mathis’ bar. Is that so irrational? Lol

  77. When do the camera men do the gatuitous hot girl in the stands Iso-shots?

    • I hope soon.
      That would be more entertaining than reading any of the posts made by Oakville

  78. Holy Moises – good catch

  79. here we go Laffey – gut check time with Spider Monkey

  80. In his ear. NOW LAffey

  81. FUCK YEAH LAFFEY – sit that greaser down

  82. Fuck you Reddick. And your mother/the whore you rode in on.

  83. that was more satisfying than reddick getting beamed in the skull

    • Too true.

      • was it more memerable though.

        If you were at the game, would you tell your buddies one time you went to a game and saw a guy hit a home run. Then later in the game he struck out.

        Or:

        I went to a ball game and this dick Redick hit a HR then got hit in the fucking face by a face ball.

        Which is more satisfying.

        • Sure, Little Looper, my son used to like the after-game fireworks best, but he was only 6 or 7 at the time. Some actually seem to enjoy the wave the most, but I wouldn’t care to encourage them. Full facial reconstruction may well be your thing, but a baseball game would seem to be a mighty strange event to watch in hopes of getting your boots filled. Whatever gets you through the night…

          • Sorry, I’m just taunting them.
            Of course I wouldn’t want to see someone get beaned in the face.
            It would be memorable though.

          • I’m sorry, Little Looper, but I fail to see the distinction you seem to draw between taunting & trolling.

  84. Who’s Laffey now, Reddick? Butt nugget.

  85. It was the only other acceptable outcome. Brain him or K him.

  86. That should go as a hit for Gomes, I mean he actually made contact.

    I dont really think that Gomes can hit a lefty better than Cooper

  87. Ok, just turned on PVR so watching game from the start.

    Oakville, I’m coming after your earlier posts now….

    Game within the game on!

    Favorite thing to do is tape the game, then watch it along to the comments. Then FF during commercials, then ending at the same time actual game ends…

    Getting ready to reply to comments now.

    I love this game!

    • OK Looper.

      I complimented you on some posts , so let’s stop the insults.

      Jays looking good today.

      Olympics was amazing with Usain Bolt & Johan Blake getting medals.

      • This is a baseball board.

        Please keep the debate to baseball and baseball related topics.

        Unelss you were talking about Anthony Bolt. Hey he’s fast.

        I just caught up to past Ryan at 7 pm. This is how long it’s taken me.
        An hour and 10 minutes.
        I can’t wait to see in my future what you worte in your past.

        Knowing I’m going to destoy your arguments without directly insulting you makes it more pleasurable.

        I accept your peace offer. May we disagree in peace.

        • @ Looper

          Who’s Anthony Bolt??

          Did you mean Anthony Gose?

          He’s fast but not as fast as Usain Bolt

          No problems with debate. No need for insults.

          I ‘ll buy you a beer at Opera Bob’s when the Jays win 89 games :))

  88. Hmm..Sierra might have a lefty masher career in his future.

  89. Nice for Sierra getting that hit, but he’s got the AAA disease of swinging at pitches that aren’t strikes.

  90. Hey Oakland, just a reminder, the go-ahead runs in a pressure spot came from Yunel “Clubhouse Cancer” Escobar – you fucking morons

    • Especially when they have the over celebrating fuck tard greasy douchebag in their club house.

      • Yeah!

        How can that be possible?
        How can it be leaked that the Jays don’t like Escobar?

        Maybe it’s because the Jays were decreasing Escobars value and increasing the value of Hech right around the trade deadline.

        No, that would be dumb. What did I at 6 pm tonight?

  91. yeah, good call, I don’t see Yunel enjoying Redick and his little boy spiderman costume

  92. Not a big fan of Laffey remaining in the game here.

  93. Did they have gum in Cuba, he’s horse munching it like it’s T-Bone steak?

  94. that was a good shot on SN showing how tough the sun is today

  95. So Jan Gomes has a 45 percent O swing percentage. That is comically terrible and highlights his utter ineptitude to masquerade as a MLB player. Not sure what they see in this guy other than he can play several positions in a shitty fashion

    • Swings at 45% of pitches outside the strike zone?

      Chad Jenkins called up??? To start or bullpen???

      • Hi Oakville.

        Please don’t take this personally.

        Jenkins is a rookie.
        Jenkies is already comforatble in our system and just happy to be here.

        The Jays just tradded for Houston starter J.A. Happ.
        He is new to the team and getting his feet wet.
        He needs to feel comfortable even as a veteran player who deserves respect..

        Where do you put Jenkins?

      • God on defense as we saw in the 9th inning.

  96. Inge only has 12 multi-hit games this season – 2 vs Jays: Rockies only other team to allow him 2 games (woe to the Giants and Dbags who allowed him 3 hits in a game)

  97. Baltimore wins YET ANOTHER one run game.

  98. That was funny. Oakland’s own fucking ball guy bumps inge and allows EE to stay alive for the double

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