I’m sure you’ll be reminded umpteen times during tonight’s broadcast about how long it’s been, specifically, since the Jays won a series in Tampa, but hot damn, it’s been a fucking long time. Maybe the Jays can change that tonight, since at least it’s just Alex Cobb on the hill for the Rays. But… maybe they can’t, with Brett Lawrie out once again, Yunel Escobar at cleanup, and Kelly Johnson so bad that he’s the secondary of the back-to-back mid-order lefties, slotted behind fifth hitter David Cooper.



On the injury front, Barry Davis tweets  that Brett Lawrie says he’s feeling better, while Shi Davidi tweets that Jose Bautista needed another MRI today, because of some movement occurred during imaging yesterday. The team is still awaiting the results, but John Farrell added to our knowledge of the injury today, explaining that “There’s a sheath that holds a tendon in place that when he swung rolled over the bone.” Sounds fun.

At FanGraphs, Eno Sarris looks at the injuries the Jays’ pitching staff has suffered this season, noting that the level of injury they’ve suffered has been bad, not record-breaking, and not unprecedented in the last decade. In fact, the teams who’ve suffered so many man-games lost from their pitchers in a single season the last decade have averaged just over half as many games lost the next season. In other words, there’s a decent chance it’s a coincidence.

At Getting Blanked, Parkes points us to Cleveland comedian Mike Polk’s parody of the Tribe’s “What If?” ad campaign. The parody, he writes, “almost perfectly describes how the fans of 24 teams in baseball feel at any given time.”

Lastly, for your between inning viewing pleasure, here’s today’s episode of Getting Blanked…

TV: Sportsnet One

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at theScore.com. And for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone or tablet with Score Mobile

Toronto Blue Jays

R. Davis LF
C. Rasmus CF
E. Encarnacion DH
Y. Escobar SS
D. Cooper 1B
K. Johnson 2B
J. Mathis C
A. Gose RF
A. Hechavarria 3B

C. Villanueva RHP

Tampa Bay Rays

D. Jennings LF
B. Upton CF
M. Joyce RF
E. Longoria DH
B. Zobrist 2B
C. Pena 1B
J. Keppinger 3B
J. Molina C
S. Rodriguez SS

A. Cobb RHP


Image via Mike McGinnis/Getty.

Comments (198)

  1. Let’s go Blue Jays!

    Just wanted to get the ball rolling!

    Let the game within the game begin!

  2. Brandon Morrow starts in New Hampshire tonight. Good news. Hopefully he’ll be back with Jays soon. Holy fucking shit do we need him.

  3. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck. There, I feel a little better about everything.

  4. That buck fellers so dum he dont no sheep shit from coton seed!

  5. Who would have ever thought that Johnson and Escobar would simultaneously be such terrible offensive players? It’s not just the injuries, its also players having their shitties seasons ever..and by a lot.

    • Escobar has at least been showing some signs of improving. Johnson had a nice April and May and has been trash since

  6. anyone else not getting the game on the rogers on demand site?

    • I don’t have it on MLB Audio……

    • None of the mlb.tv options are working for me. Maybe something wrong with their server? Jays/Rays are the MLB Free Show of the Day too!?!?

      • Same here. Usually you can turn the audio/video on during warm-up, but the links still haven’t come up to start the MLB.tv player.

        • According to the admin on the MLB support forum:

          “The games that began at 7PM ET as well as the Padres FSSD feed are currently unavailable. We are working on resolving this as soon as possible. We’re sorry for the inconvenience.”

          Wish there were more details, but at least they say they’re working on it. (Would’ve been nice of them to put an announcement up on the MLB home page or media centre page, though.)

    • I’m not getting it either. Wireless customer, no cable fwiw.

    • My Magnavox console with Magnavision seems to be okay.Colours a little off but I’m used to that.

      • All the 7pm-ish MLB.tv games are not working. Wondering if it’s for the best given this game is in Tampa.

    • Looks like it’s up now.

  7. Jeez can somebody tell me when I’m gonna see the defensive artistry from Hech?
    I know SSS and the scouts say he’s ready and they’ve seen more of him but He still don’t look that comfortable.
    And fuck off with “he’s a shortstop playing third” shit.
    He’s not out of position but that’s the third or fourth ball thats eaten him up.

    • Travis is starting the game tonight in Pittsburgh. Wish I could be sitting in right field and cheering “Travis! Travis!”. I’ll bet he’d notice me and smile back with that nice smile of his.

      • Perhaps he could give you a wink and a hiedi ho ho ho for a nudge nudge.

        • Say no more, say no more.

        • It wouldn’t be like that at all with Travis. These young girls on Twitter, the ones who chase him on Twitter and shamelessly post their pictures, they are the ones who want to pull Travis into impure situations. My only interests are to help Travis grow, so that we can see him in his fullness and watch him explode as a major leaguer.

          • How dare you! I am not young, and I most definitely have shame.

          • LOL! at all you guys.Travis had another great game 2 for 4 after going 3 for 5 yesterday.

            How’s Rajai Davis doing in LF???

            Hah!. Looking forward to seeing Trvis in the playoffs while all you fanboys FAP at AA picking up Rajai davis’s options.

            You know if AA had picked up Travis this year for a middle reliever you would be excited.

            You guys FAP At Rasmus for Zep & Dotel yet when the shoe is on the other foot you mock fans.

            Let’s see how many Brad Lincoln Jerseys are sold during the homestand.!!

    • Well, playing 3B is a different animal than SS, especially for someone who’s playing his 3rd or 4th game ever there. Its MUCH more reactionary than SS.

      • Agreed allisauce but he’s on the ball and not picking it clean. Seen it a few times.
        Waitin for him to make me go “wow”. I know it’s gonna happen but I’m a little surprised so far.

  8. Anyone got a stream for the game? MLB.tv is shitting the bed tonight.

  9. so….. who likes mike wilner?

    • I quite enjoy listening to him even though I often don’t agree with him.

    • By bringing subjectivity into it, you’re completely missing the point of a mind like Wilner. He is but a lighthouse of objective truth, guiding the lost to rational shores.

      Shame on you.

  10. Chavez

  11. If anyone’s interested in finding streams for now or future reference, our old friend ATDHE seems to be back and airing Jays games. Google it to find the correct one (top find).

  12. Morrow has given up 2 runs on 3 hits and a walk in 4 innings in New Hampshire today in his first start

  13. Well fuck being nickel & dimed to death.

    • FINAL: Rays 4, Jays 1. Encarnacion leaves the game in the 7th with “right shoulder tightness.”

  14. no Bautista, no Morrow, no Santos, no Lawrie, ricky romero has played like shit, holy hell this is a shitty team to watch

  15. way to get hit by pitch, hech! maybe that can be your offensive niche

  16. The Rays must see Toronto on the schedule and get that feeling you have when you know you’re 100% getting laid.

    • We lay an egg each and every game. It must be comforting to be on the receiving end of that.

  17. The good news is that the worse we go in the meaningless (for this year) standings, the more bandwagon fans will stop posting here.
    They will lose interest quickly.

    Real die hard fans will continue to support this team and be excited about the future. Or they will freak about all the missing pieces and debate what needs to be changed.

    Once the blowhards are gone, then we can have real constructive debates about where we go from here and argue properly about the next course of action.

    Trying to find some kind of light..

    • “I hope the Blue Jays lose so my little self-assuring message board is more tolerable for me”

      You’re a complete fucking pussy.

      • Very true.

        Looper enjoys making fun of fans that spend money attending games & watching them on tv.

        He dreams about whatever move AA makes & will defend it no matter what.

        If AA trades Bautista tomorrow for Jo Jo Reyes , he applauds him saying Jose is a malcontent..

        The reality is that the team is dead without Bautista & Lawrie in the lineup .

        Even JP provided occasional offence.

        Remember your Jays talking points.

        Hecheverria is a gold glove defennsive whiz. The Jays hsould trade Escobar immediately because Hech can take over!!!

        • Very true. VERY FALSE

          Looper enjoys making fun of fans that spend money attending games & watching them on tv. BLOWHARD COMMENT WITH NO BASIS. AND IF I WAS A JAYS PR GUY OR ROGERS APOLOGIST LIKE YOU KEEP SAYING WOULDN’T I WANT FANS TO SPEND MONEY AT GAMES?

          He dreams about whatever move AA makes & will defend it no matter what. WHEN I DON’T LIKE A TRADE HE’S DONE, I’LL GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF MY DOUBT BECAUSE HE’S EARNED IT.

          If AA trades Bautista tomorrow for Jo Jo Reyes , he applauds him saying Jose is a malcontent.. ALMOST FUNNY BUT KIND OF A RAJAI SWING IN THE DIRT. NICE TRY.

          The reality is that the team is dead without Bautista & Lawrie in the lineup .THIS POINT IS TRUE BUT IT TOOK ME A FEW MINUTES TO READ IT AFTER LAUGHING AT A POST OF YOURS USING THE WORD “REALITY”


          Remember your Jays talking points.

          Hecheverria is a gold glove defennsive whiz. The Jays hsould trade Escobar immediately because Hech can take over!!!

          • LOL! Looper.

            Do even spend a dime attending Blue Jays games?

            Do your parents pay for your Rogers Cable TV package so you can watch the games.

            You claim to be a knowleadgeable fan yet are unable to provide an opinion on Snider-Lincoln???

            So now you defend Napoli for Frank Francisco??

            That was a horrible trade.

            The Jays needed a catcher/1B/DH for 2011, with a rookie JP & Lind having a bad season in 2010 & Edwin being reclaimed on waivers from Oakland.

            Not sure, if you were allowed to use the intrnet back then, but Napoli for Frankie was regarded as a horrible trade by AA but people forgave AA because they got rid of Wells.

            Frankie was a poor reliever .

            Napoli had a career 2011.

            Try again Looper!!

            Are you afraid of hurting AA’s feelings??

            How can you defend a trade that is the opposite of all of AA’s previous trades??

            Maybe Stoeten or Parkes will back you up, but when you take a stand I will pay attention.

          • Oakville.

            You are a nut, but you make me laugh.
            Do you remember my first post of the weekend which was our introduction to this annoying debate?

            The long winded essay I posted about the whiners?
            I addressed the Napoli trade there as complaint number 4. Because you have the attention span of a nat I will repost it for you now:

            It was a fine trade at the time. Do you forget how we got Napoli? The Angels traded Napoli to us for Vernon Wells. If I told you we’d be able to get someone else to take Well’s contract in a trade you wouldn’t even care who we’re getting. You’d say make that trade! So why cry about losing a guy who didn’t even have a role on our team?
            If you think he should have gotten more you’re nuts. At that time Napoli was a backup catcher who couldn’t catch and we traded him for a potential closer/potential trade asset/potential compensation. The optics are bad because Napoli had ONE breakout year and the guy we got imploded. How’s Napoli even doing this year? Last I checked he was hovering around .230 with the same HR’s as JPA who’s been out with an injury.
            Even more laughable about this dumb argument is that the hindsight isn’t even ready for full judgment. What if the compensation draft pick Gonzalez turns into an unlikely all-star?
            So what if Napoli turned into something nobody expected for ONE SEASON. AA said from the start he has to take risks to get high rewards. A hitter makes the hall of fame if he’s successful 30% of the time. Did you get 100% in school? My God, what rate of success does AA need for you to give him credit? Damn you if you won’t give him a pass on a bad trade or even several. He’s made 35 trades and you harp about this one? You are idiots if you believe a man can be perfect.

          • @ Oakville

            “Do even spend a dime attending Blue Jays games?
            Do your parents pay for your Rogers Cable TV package so you can watch the games”

            Not all Jays fans have the money to live in places like Oakville and attend your white lawn parties.

            It’s a shame that a theme with you is that you need to be a rich season ticket holder to be a fan.

            Shame on you for elitist attitude.

    • How do I rate myself?
      Am I a bandwagon fan? or a reel die hard fan?or a blowhard fan?
      Should I stay or should I go? ( don’t answer that Stoeten,you’ve got a bias)
      Maybe I’m just a Drunk Jays Fan.

    • Pretty much all the fans who are commenting on blogs while watching games at this stage of the season with the year we’re having are die hard fans and I’d welcome all opinions.
      Except of course the genius who thinks I’m a pussy. The fact he calls himself LOLrie tells me the guy is a blowhard. All talk, no thought.

      Radar, you are mos def a die hard fan and I’ve always enjoyed your comments, even if I don’t always agree. You at least have reasoning for your perspective.

      We are “one for all” in our desire to see a championship team.
      I don’t want a “one for all” perspective on how to achieve it.

      I love the debate about best course of action, possible trade scenarios, who we should pursue as a FA, if we should pusue any FA, to build system slow and steady or construct a playoff team with fast money.

      This is what being a fan is about.

      What I’m sick of is people who can’t back up their arguments.

      “AA is stupid” without any argument of merit is a blowhard and they’re tiresome.

      • Does it say “Little Looper” on your driver’s license? Internet screen names?

        Read your post. Your silver lining on a horse shit baseball season is that bad posters might leave a message board you frequent? What the fuck is wrong with you?

        Love guys like you. You’d rather read a nice, calm discussion about how the Jays fucked up, how they might fuck slightly less in the future and why they maybe actually really rationally speaking didn’t fuck up at all than watch a winner. Mid-game you’re on here policing the comments against future hurtful posts for you to read. Laughable. Pure pussy.

        Time to take an internet break, bud.

        • Lolrie
          all talk, no thought.

          Touched a nerve with this blowhard.

          It could be because he loves guys like me.

        • LOLrie:
          As per Oakville69, I’ll answer in caps:

          Does it say “Little Looper” on your driver’s license? Internet screen names?

          Read your post. READ IT.
          Your silver lining on a horse shit baseball season is that bad posters might leave a message board you frequent?

          What the fuck is wrong with you? I BLAME BAD PARENTING.


          Love guys like you. NO DOUBT YOU DO TIGER.

          You’d rather read a nice, calm discussion about how the Jays fucked up, how they might fuck slightly less in the future and why they maybe actually really rationally speaking didn’t fuck up at all than watch a winner. FUCKING NONSENSE

          Mid-game you’re on here policing the comments against future hurtful posts for you to read. UM, YOU POSTED A REPLY TO MY TOPIC. I HAVEN’T POSTED A REPLY TO ANYONE ELSE’S. WHO IS POLICING WHO?

          Laughable. Pure pussy. DID YOU HAVE TO GOOGLE INSULTS FOR THAT GEM?

          Time to take an internet break, bud.

        • Bingo!

          Try not to hurt Looper’s feelings.

          He has to come to tems with another year of non performance.

          He hasn’t admitted to going to a Jays game yet this year.
          Perhaps he goes on JR Jays saturdays & runs the bases with his friends.

          He spends the weekend impesonating other posters because its cool.

          He hopes the team he roots for fails so he can have a few of AA’s supporter left on the blog.

      • HMM you are sounding rational again.

        Wasn’t it fun to impersonate me & make fun of any posts I made which were your posts?

        You don’t seem to be open to debate.

        You want to applaud whatever, Stoeten, Wilner or the Bluejays.com press releases tell you.

        You are willing to bash Rogers in 2014 if the team fails??

        Why won’t you support whatever plan AA comes up with?

        You can’t tell me or anyone else that fans watching this current roster against Tampa Bay would sell any tickets for 2013.

        The Jays have hyped Hech, & Gose . It’s up to them now.

        I am always willing to debate the Jays future plans & discuss various strategies , but it seems that the rule here is that whatever is approved by Keith Law & Mike Wilner & the Jays PR site is the gospel.

        • Will you stop crying about the fake posts!
          When I do it it’s clearly marked FAKE OAKVILLE69

          As for the weekend when I commented on your posts, how the hell should I know which ones are yours and which ones are other impersonators.

          To be fair, I can usually tell because the fake ones usually have a good point in them.

    • LOL!

      Looper drinking the Jays cool aid.

      Talk amongst yourselves & enjoy fapping about whatever prospect the PR dept decides to hype.

      Dyson ” best stuff in the organization”

      Santos ” mild shoulder injury, should not go on DL”

      Jokes on You .

      Seriosly, Looper, do you even bother spending a dime attending games??

      It’s sad to watch the Jays get crushed by the Rays every series in the Trop.

      • Hey Oakville.

        You’re not a blowhard. You engage in debate and try to explain your views. It’s great!

        I’m not drinking the cool-aid and never have. I’m forming my opinions on the progress I’ve seen for the organization based on development, not wins.

        Did you ever consider that a lot of the prospect porn hype isn’t so much to get our fans excited as it may be to pump up the value of these guys as trade possibiities? Have you ever played high stakes poker?

        Here is an example of a trade. AA will offer a rival GM a choice of 3 players to choose from. The rival GM loves this because he gets to make the call. More often than not he will choose the wrong player because that’s the guy with the most hype and exposure.

        Did you notice how much the Jays were talking up Nestor Molina? Just days before that trade Sal Fassano was on the Fan saying how Molina might be the best pitcher in our system. Then BOOM, traded. Those that believed the hype were angry. Those who understand are now watching him struggle elsewhere.

        The joke is sadly on you. You fall for the kool-aid by believing this bluffing poker game. You’re the one who is falling for the hype machine and feel lied to and cheated because it’s not real.

        We’ve gone over this all weekend. I’ve explained the difference between perception and reality, between regression in the standings and progress as an organization. I’m too tired to get into it again.

        You win. I’m done

        Oh, and it’s not sad we lose at the Trop. It fucking sucks.

  18. Well well, KJ.

  19. finally a lead off baserunner – that is part of the maddening series – no pressure on Rays pitchers

    that 3rd run was caused by walks, fucking annoying walking Zobrist and Pena, then Keppinger hit –

    if that is the deciding run, really fucking annoying

  20. Are the Jays losing by only one run? I’m confused.

  21. This is the inning, bases gonna be stocked for Gose and Hech. Stoked! Love the prospects. Don’t mean to stir the pot, I’ve moved on, but Snider is 2 hits in 3 at bats tonight

    • And Lincoln is gaining valuable experience as a late inning reliever. He’s also controllable and quickly becoming a fan favourite. What’s your point exactly?

  22. how depressing is this, oi

  23. Holy shit is Anthony Gose ever a horrible hitter

  24. Any time I’m frustrated by the Jays lately, I just think about how comfortable and happy Rajai Davis must feel lately. I’m glad the Jays have seen the immense value in Rajai and done everything they can to put him in a position to succeed. Watch for the ascent of Rajai to be a real talking point for next season.

  25. I want a giant bucket of Dubble Bubble

  26. I agree it seems like every series with this team is a layup for them – Jays have not won the season series since 2006 and are 63 and 36 vs. Rays since then –

    but the last series here the Jays lost that 1 game in 11, that could have broken the hex that has been “The Slop at the Trop”

    Go Delabar

  27. J.F. paces
    As Joe Madden chuckles to himself

  28. Good inning there.

  29. Seriously fuck the fucking Rays.

  30. a comeback win vs. Rodney would make 2012 worthwhile (a least that and the Lawrie helmet toss/umpire beer shower game)

  31. will someone feed gose. i am tired of seeing him eat his fingernails. just trade him already. oh yeah he cant hit worth a fuck

  32. some talk about the future:

    1. What to do with Bautista?

    If AA is serious about contending in the next season or two I think we should keep him for the rest of his contract. If AA isn’t going to make a push and the roster hardly changes in 2013 then I think AA should think long and hard about cashing in on Bautista’s trade value while it is sky high.

    2. How are we going to improve the rotation? Do we need an ace?

    We have talented prospects but who knows how many of them will be top of the rotation material. It will take 2-5 years to truly know what we have in all of our young arms. If AA is serious about building a winner for 2013 or 2014 then I think he has to either sign or trade for #1 or #2 type starters, because as I see it this is by far our biggest weakness.

    • If your actually serious.
      Not a chance Bautista gets moved in any situation.Since Sept 2009 nobody has hit more homeruns than Bautista. And he’s cheap.
      Who are you gonna replace him with?
      The rotation will be improved through trades and FA in the off season.

    • This post is great.
      Valid points to consider.

      I’d trade Joey B for 2 high ceiling MLB ready players but that would be so unpopular I’d never actually do it. I would be run out of town by rabid fans.

      Then when he crashes, (and in my opinion that crash will be just as fast, sudden, unpredictable and unnexpected as his breakout year) I’ll have to listen to everyone cry that I’m a stupid GM because I didn’t cash in on him in his prime just when we’re hitting our glory years…

      This wrist injury is also a real concern. Power hitters don’t come back from wrist injuries easily. Joey B might not even be as good next year because of this. Wrist injuries can take a year and a half to recover.

      He’s by far my favorite Jay and one of the most exciting players in baseball so I hope he’ll be fine. I hope the injury will heal properly and he’ll recover fast.

      On the flip side I also agree with Radar’s view..

    • Only problem is that it isn’t sky high anymore now that he’s out for the season with an injury. Don’t let the usual Jays clubhouse spin about how he’ll allegedly be back any day now fool you. He’s hurt bad and will be out for a long time, and will probably suck for a long time when he first comes back.

      The time to trade him was the deadline (if not the deadline last year) but sadly now the time has come and gone. You have to hang on to him at least until the 2013 deadline to see if he can re-establish some value. We’d get garbage in return right now.

      • What happens if Bautista has some 25-30 homeruns at the trade deadline next season and the Jays are well out of contention? I think AA has to look at offers, and if a team is willing to shell out for him he has a very tough decision to make.

        I love Bautista but he will not be this good forever.

        As for starting pitching, I think AA has to convince Rogers to give him a bigger budget. the only problem with this route is that pitching is very expensive on the open market and we could very well overpay for an average starter.

        AA also has to consider trading prospects for proven pitching– think of the Roy Halladay trade, Drabek was a top pitching prospect but we can see how that has turned out so far. d’Arnaud is the only piece that looks above average in that trade. I would be ok with trading 3 high end prospects and a roster player such as Escobar or JP for top quality pitching. Prospect porn is one thing, but prospects lose their value fast.

  33. I am the son of moisture farmer Cliegg Lars and the stepbrother of Anakin Skywalker. I married Beru Whitesun, and after my father’s death, I inherited his job as a moisture farmer.

  34. so what will be wilners question of the night tonight?

  35. Oh no, fucking Rodney again.

  36. The Chinless Wonder delivers again!

  37. Fuck Yeah CooperScooper

    and now of course that 3rd run (because of FUCKING WALKS) looms large

  38. Coooooooper

  39. Cue the archer.

  40. melky cabrera will be a free agent next year. can he play left field? contract talks are off

  41. We should have brought that run home when we had a man on 3rd and 1 out.

    But it’s the rays, I can’t even get angry anymore.

  42. they just gotta go 37W and 15L and everything will be fine.

  43. AA still fucked up from springtraining. they had a chance to get pitcher edwin twice. and i am a fan of AA. but the holes were obvious and it was ignored and it cost him having to make trades. and the only excuse for not signing jackson was money. i will be watching closelyto see the moves up to springtraining on how much time i will devote to this team next year. i am 100 % gametime but may limit to big series only.up to you AA

  44. Great, now here is something to watch for – everything the Jays have should be put into Sept 21, 22 and 23 – perhaps a trade, shuffling the pitching staff in anticipation


    From ESPN tonight:

    The Rays clinched their 16th consecutive home series win over Toronto by winning the first two games of the three-game set. The longest such streak in AL history is 19, held by the New York Yankees against the St. Louis Browns from 1946-51.

    • Yeah we should probably work on that if we have hopes of competing next year and beyond

  45. Well, shooting for Sept. 21-23. Last chance to flop at the Trop in 2012. Fucking joke with this club and Tampa.

  46. The Jays need to sweep the clubhouse and dugout in Tampa for listening devices, use encripted communication, check for the pumping of ether or some other somnolence drugs into the air – put every scout on the case .

    THIS SHIT ENDS Sept 22nd (or 23rd)

    • Fly the white suit guy down to Tampa.

      • YES, FUCK YES – now there is a guy who is thinking and actually committed to winning – good job good effort Randy – keep those ideas coming – Sept 21 to 23 should now be the MOST IMPORTANT SERIES OF THE YEAR – THIS YEARS PLAYOFFS – its like Ohio St. Michigan – its the one thing that can turn a solid season to shit or put the shinola on shit on the basis of that one game

  47. Gee, another one run loss. Gee, another series loss in Tampa. Gee…….

  48. This year started with such promise, legitimate thoughts of a WC finish. Now the Jays a done this year, and what certainly appears to be next year. AA needs some kind of magic to make next year look any good at all. You know its worse than it looks if AA starts with the mis-direction ploys….’Vegas moving to Buffalo’, Minor League championships, awards, etc.

    • God I want Bufalo to be the new Vegas.

      Buffalo baby, Buffalo!

    • Jesus grumpy, I mean birddawg, only you could possibly take such a significant and badly needed move from Vegas to Buffalo and recast it as a misdirection ploy. And how dare AA make mention of championships in our system if they come to pass as well, an obvious tell that things are as bad as you say (or is it worse than it looks?)

      • You see spud, its working already….your mind goes to the candy, rather than the problem at hans. AA needs his hands held to the fire, not have a bunch of wide-eyed wonderstrucks who marvel at shinny objects like the Buffalo 51′s.

    • He never talks about me anymore! I’m the most important part of his job, and yet he won’t even speak my name to the fans now or even acknowledge that I exist. It sucks. I wish we could go back to how it was last December when he spoke openly of our relationship.

    • Holy fucking dumb.

  49. Chili Davis for president!

  50. so radar calls in on jaystalk and wilner mentions that he comments all the time on djf, so that means wilner is reading this blog all the time and know how little we think of him. maybe I should call and he might recognize me.

    • Tee Hee.
      Ist time caller long time listener.
      At least he wasn’t condescending.

    • I wonder if Wilner speaks to his family the way he speaks to callers. What an asshole.

    • Sorry I missed it Radar.
      I’m sure you were great.

      • Thanks LL.
        I was right, too many ums and ahs but fuck it, what the fuck do I care as long as I didn’t sound like a fucking moron.( you can debate that amongst yourselves., maybe I did)
        Great shoutout to DJF at the 30:15 mark.
        Think Stoeten will send me some beer?
        You know that the cheap prick wouldn’t part with one of his frappacinos.Thats his and his alone.
        But maybe some beer.

        • It seems he recognized you from DJF.
          Obviously he reads these comments.

          Not kidding, but just spitballing.
          Is there a chance he’s Oakville69?
          He takes on the persona of some of his callers and tests out arguments on here?

  51. Wilner definitely strikes me as the kind of guy who would be paranoid about what people are saying about him and would look at this board on a daily basis, since there are inevitably at least two dozen comments directed at him per day. He probably comments too, under a pseudonym.

  52. Possible Bullpen 2013:

    lefties Cecil and Loup

    maybe Santos and Oliver

    or two of Carpenter (who has 14 Ks in 9 innings in Vegas), Dyson or who knows what kind of Peralta/Rodney/Capps dumpster-dive AA can turn up

    finally some real hard throwers

    • I am seeing

      Delabar or Stroman
      Happ or Cecil

      Again if Happ or Cecil end up in the rotation to start the year in 2013 I’d day AA didn’t do his job in the winter.

      I really like the pen the as it is right now with the power arms. AA won’t have to spend a dime there this winter unless he resigns Carlos to be the swing guy again and moves Happ. However, I don’t really see that as a likely outcome as Carlos will most likely look for a team that will promise him starter dollars and a rotation spot. If the price is right I’d be happy to take him as a 5th starter. Getting him at a decent price would leave more money to spend on a #1 or strong #2 this winter and another outfielder.

      It would be interesting to see them potentially make a run at someone like Bourn and then shift Rasmus to Left. This could potentially free up Gose as a trade option and give Marisnick at least 2 years of further grooming. Considering the dollars it’s going to take for an ace doing something like that might free up more prospects for a trade of a controllable starter with the net effect of the team getting better sooner rather than waiting on Gose to fully develop and relying on a pricier older free agent starter.

      Of course that’s assuming the Jays even can snag a premier free agent this winter. Personally I think it’s going to be harder than ever after seeing what went on at the trade deadline. Teams are going to have a year of experience to the additional WC situation and might be more inclined to spend more money up front this coming winter instead of rolling the dice at the deadline where those impact players will be held hostage for a king’s ransom in prospects. I certainly think getting the player you need and want for the beginning of the season is going to bring a lot of value back to the free agents. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that improved play over the first 3 months of the season just increases your chances to separate your team from a very crowed WC field come the end of the season. Also teams that were traditionally reluctant to spend in the past my spend more if they see a surge in attendance due to the Wild Card.

      Should be interesting to see AA adapt or change his philosophies regarding free agents if he actually does at all.

      • Very good post.

        The Bullpen does look good for 2013.

        It will be interesting to see what AA is allowed to do in the offseason.

        Having Baltiomoe & Pittsburgh in the playoffs on 2012 will annoy the Rogers apologists, but I am sure they will come up with some snappy insults to bandwagon fans& fans that spend money attending games.

        • I don’t know about the Rogers apologists. You know I’ve been pretty critical of what Rogers did to the team under JPR and I’ve also stated that I believe there’s a lot more money in the Jays than Rogers is letting on about. That said, I do believe it was justifiable for them to be spending what they did the last two years because of where the team was. I’m not saying an argument couldn’t be made for more money for the 2012 the team but in hindsight I think it would have been money down the drain with all these injuries. Losing 60% of your starting rotation and about 40% of your pen and then losing nearly half of your lineup for a long stretch would kill almost any team. The Red Sox are a perfect example of that also and their payroll was double ours yet we’re sharing the same address in the standings. Considering all the question marks going into 2012 I think you would have had to increase payroll in a BIG way to overcome those doubts.

          Going forward into 2013 I think there’s far less justification for the team to not spend this winter. Everyone is a year older, higher ceiling guys in the farm system are a year closer to being able to help when needed. Attendance and TV ratings saw huge increases for the revenue side of the equation. At least AA has actually mentioned looking at free agents this winter which is a good sign. I know it probably caused him intense pain in his value balls but at least he’s seemingly willing to shift gears.

      • ahem…cough…cough…ahem…

  53. Radar you da man. I hope all y’all busted it up. Wassup wif Wilner? They don’t let us Blue Jays fans down in the US listen to the internets now. What is happening to this here team? anthopoulos did a bad job this season with bench depth. farrell can’t manage all dat good. Meanwhile the Os is busting out. We were in the playoffs last in 92 and the Os were last in 98. If the Os make it I hope that lights a fire under Mr alex’s butt. Cause all of us Blue Jays fans will be angry as all heck.

    • I’ll have to check but I think the last time the Jays were in the playoffs was 93. I may be wrong,where’s fangraphs when you need them?
      AA was hoping somebody would step up to the plate ( see what I did there?) as far as bench strength.
      And your right Farrell’s not that good but he’s either gonna get it next year or he’ll be replacing Valentine. It’s the last year of Farrell’s contract.
      Although it’s AA’s call, it’s his advisors and scouts that will make the difference.
      If they fail next year,casual fans will turn their back.Casual attendance and TV ratings will drop.
      Mr. Rogers won’t be happy when people start cancelling SN1.

      • Hmm. A voice of reason at this late hour.

        Wold Farrell jump ship?

        I listen to Red Sox Radio & they hate Valentine & Love Farrell.

        AA needs a scapegoat so if Farrell quits, does AA get a second chance with a new manager.

        The replacement would probably be Butterfield.

        I suspect AA would offer him a contract extension but does Farrell turn him down for the bright lights of Boston.

        • Yup I was reading how much Sawks fans hate Valentine.
          Farrell’s been trying to mold the team to his vision not working with what it is.
          2013 is the final year of his contract.
          Gonna get interesting.

        • Personally I can’t see Farrell going anywhere unless he wants to leave. Has he made mistakes this year? Sure, but look at what he’s had to deal with. Just reading between the lines about what guys like Rasmus are saying about him (practically gushing over Farrell) then I am guessing things are pretty solid in that club house. My feeling is that he’s a very good communicator but is also a guy that you don’t fuck with. Considering most of his mistakes have come with his pen usage I think he deserves a decent amount of leeway. The way they performed prior to the deadline trades doesn’t give a manager a lot of confidence in trying to figure out who you can trust. Of course it also comes down to execution. If those same players were doing their jobs a lot of those mistakes would look like a job well done.

          • Maybe.
            He is an effective media person, which bodes well.
            Disagree with his only mistake is bullpen management.I see other errors with his in game decisions.
            He may want out, he may want to stay.
            Thats why next year will be interesting.

        • Good lord Oakville.
          Your posts get more ridiculous by the hour.
          Or wait, is this one of your so called impersonators stealing your identity again? That excuse is lame.

          AA needs a scapegoat? Did you really say that?
          1. AA inherited a mess of an organziation and turned it around in 3 years to the point where fans like you actually expect wins. It took Gillick 8. I thought we agreed to give Alex 6 years before bitching?
          2. You don’t think having your enitre team go on the DL is an reasonable excuse? You think he needs to fire the manager?
          3. The team was expected to be a .500 team heading into this year. What they’ve done in light of the injuries is incredible. Yet you think he needs a scapegoat?
          4. Do you really think Boston has a brighter future than Toronto?

          • It is common for GM’s to be allowed to replace 1 or 2 managers before they themselves are blamed.

            farrell isn’t bad but he has made mistakes with the bullpen.

            He is a good communicator which is a plus when you have a big media market to deal with.

          • This is just the Ginger Campbell whack job, who is a Ricciardi sucker.

  54. Orioles create some excitement – Manny Machado called up – do they do the “untinkable” and call up Bundy for a playoff push

    • I kind of doubt it. If he was at AA then I’d say no problem but with only 80 innings of pro ball under his belt it would be a real stretch. I’d be surprised if he even made the team coming out of spring training next year.

      • Ahh I just read that Bundy is being promoted to AA. That might actually change things then. If he dominates in AA it’s possible – still a remote one imo, you could see him in the pen for September.

  55. In other news, Jack Cust has amassed five strikeouts in two games. Go Cust! Diamond Nation.

    • Cust had decent road numbers last year and good walk numbers so I think it’s a good signing. And put him in skydome and his hr total will jump. This team needs all the help it can get.

      • I love Diamond Jack. He is the modern-day Rob Deer. I just want him up here for an official start. I will have the only Cust jersey in the Skydome. Diamond Nation.

  56. Tank Nation. I’m feeling it.

  57. Snider vs Jays bottom 4

    Tied! 2 hits apiece!

  58. So I just looked at the play by play on espn…why the FUCK did mathis sacrifice johnson to third in the SEVENTH inning when we were down by TWO? Shit, sacrificing him to third down by ONE is debatable.but two? two? that is indefensible….espeically with the shit that was due up after him.

    • I almost turned off my TV when I saw that play. I wouldn’t have had as much of an issue if it wasn’t Gose on deck. Gose strikes out too much and of course he did when a ground ball anywhere gets the run in.

      I love the concept of “small ball” but I think Farrell really missed on that one

  59. wow 10 games at home vs 3 top teams. we’ll be lucky if we even win 2. how are the fans going to react to seeing a AAA lineup get beaten like a little ahmish boy after a poor milking. it could get ugly.

    • I will be at the game on Monday.

      It will be interesting to see the crowds after this bad road trip

  60. @oakville69: I never thought I’d miss the days that you just said stupid shit, but I do.

    Recently you have shown a pretty disturbing tendency to say stupid shit while at the same time belittling people that cannot afford to spend as much money attending Jays games as you can.

    Either you believe that people without a lot of money are not worthy of having opinions on the Jays, or you’re just grasping at pitiful justifications for your own ridiculous opinions. Either way you come off as an insufferable piece of shit.

    I can happily admit that I don’t have a lot of money. I’m young, still working my first “real” job in a field that will never make me rich (teacher), and have student debt. I have still, however, attended a whole mess of Jays games this year, and have drank my face off on over priced beers at every one of them. In fact, I’m willing to bet that as a proportion of my take home income, I’ve spent an amount at ball games that is comparable to the proportion of your take home income that you have. If that weren’t enough, I’m also a Rogers customer that pays for the privilege of watching damn near every Jays game on their mediocre cable network.

    I can respectfully disagree with your opinions on the Blue Jays, their team building process, and the merits of particular moves made or not made, but as soon as you start implying that I (or anyone else around here) is less entitled to their opinion because they spend less on attending games than you do, I take it personally.

    It’s a pathetic attempt on your part to invalidate the opinions of your critics based on factors that have absolutely nothing to do with understanding of baseball or rational analysis thereof.

    In short, go fuck yourself you elitist, plutocratic asshole.

    • Nicely said Dillon

      Oakville dragged me down to his level arguing with him all week.
      He can’t articulate his views and when he does they change from post to post.
      Now that he’s realizing he can’t win with the merit of his arguments, he has taken to personal attacks and blatant lies.
      To mock us who aren’t as fortunate as him is just wrong.
      To discredit fans because they can’t afford tickets is beyond disrepectful.

      Thanks for pointing it out…

    • @ Dillion.

      I have tried to be very civil for months on this blog. However, some others have decided to attack me personally.

      You can have as many opinions as you want about the team.

      Beeston wants the fans to show up before the team spends more money.

      Thus , everyone that supports current Jays management should do their best & support the team financially without any complaint.

      I am tired of the stat geeks telling me to spend thousands of dollars & clap at whatever team this ownership puts on the field.

      Stop telling fans like me whether I am to allowed to cheer or Boo the team.

      • @ oakville69:

        And if you’ll notice, I was not one to attack you personally until, to use the parlance of the playground, “you started it”. Not by attacking me personally, per se, but by blatantly stating that “stat geeks” who disagree with you are poor. If you don’t see how unbelievably not “civil” then I really can’t help you.

        Go back and read your recent posts in this thread and the 2 0 1 2 thread. I’ll wait.

        Done? You sound pretty douchey don’t you? Now that somebody is calling you on it you completely reverse yourself and pretend you never said the arrogant shit that you said. But that’s the magic of the internet. Your douchiness stays right there for all the world to see, no matter how fast you back pedal after the fact. My favourite one was “I seriously wonder if any of the stats geeks have enough money to attend games”. What’s yours?

        Oh yeah, and nobody is telling you whether or not you’re ALLOWED to cheer or boo the team. They’re telling you that your reasons for choosing to do one or the other are generally idiotic and at times completely detached from the reality of both the on field product and the nature of running a baseball team. A subtle difference that I’m sure is lost on you.

        • @ Dillion.

          I apologize for offending you or any other fan who cannot attend games for financial or other reasons , distance/disability etc..

          Sadly, it seems that much of the discussion of the team’s roster seems to be based on “payroll parameters/ team ownership/ Collective bargaining agreement etc)

          I have an accounting background, so the business side of the team interests me .

          I will fully admit not to being as knowleadgeable about the new stat numbers that are used to analyze players.

          From a baseball side , I enjoy watching the team play & it’s fun to be part of the discussion.

          I am frustrated with the fake posts , random disparaging about casual fans or non new stat oriented forms of analysis etc…so I lost my temper.

          I have been posting here for a few years , so I doon’t usually get so agitated with posts.

          I think most people on this board want the team to get into the playoffs, it’s just a different view as best to to reach that target.

          I do get irrittated when other posters & Stoeten attack fans as crybabies when they complain about the team’s poor performance.

          I do my best to suport the team directly, by buying tickes & indirectly with TV cable bandwith usage which is higher than normal during the season.

    • If you’re too poor to go to Jays games, you’re too poor to have an internet connection to comment on them. Unless you mean he belittles people for sitting in the 500 section, in which case he should go fuck himself because that’s kind of the whole point of being a Drunk Jays Fan.

      Otherwise, I kind of agree with him. If you (not you specifically, but I’m not enough of an asshole to use ‘one’ as a pronoun on a message board) don’t attend the games you honestly can’t understand how much of a downer it is to watch undermanned teams achieve mediocrity.

      Like I said, I’m too lazy to look through all of his comments. If he’s doing the former, then he’s basically guilty of high drunken-fanness treason. If he’s doing the latter, you might have to wipe some of the sand out of your vagina.

      All the best.

      • Ray, Sometimes I like what you say but this is ridiculous.

        1. Having an internet connection is basically a necessity in this world and if you have a low pay cheque that is where your resources should go along with rent and food. Even before a phone.
        Going to Jays games is a luxury and a privilege. To suggest otherwise shows a lackof understanding for the plight of those struggling to pay their bills. Congratulations on your wealth.

        2. So it’s ok for the 100′s crowd to mock those that can’t go to games at all, but it’s not ok for the 100 crowd to mock those that are privileged enough to go but need to sit in the 500?

        3. “If you don’t attend the games you honestly can’t understand how much of a downer it is to watch undermanned teams achieve mediocrity.”
        People like you and your elitist “Toronto is the centre of the world” attitude give the rest of us a bad reputation everywhere in Canada.
        So you’re saying that Jays fans in Winnepeg or Vancouver can’t understand how this season is a downer because they haven’t gone to a game?
        Fans who prefer watching games from the comforts of their home on TV, or listening on the radio, can’t understand?
        Fans who visit blogs can’t feel the discontent?

        Even better is the counter argument within your own sentence.
        It’s a downer to watch “UNDERMANNED teams ACHIEVE mediocrity”

        Damn. Most fans argue that it’s a downer when their full team plays to mediocrity and below their abilities. Like the Red Sox and Phillies. You’re complanning that an undermanned team is playing above their heads to achieve mediocrity?
        And this is when the expectations by realists heading into the season was a .500 team for a healthy squad.

        And my final proof that what you said is pure nonsense is that you’re defending Oakville69.

        Marinate on that for a bit.

        • You make a fair point about living in other cities. That’s an obvious exception. I’m still going to maintain that no one “can’t afford” to spend $13 to go to a Blue Jays game if they are a baseball fan. That’s not very much money.

          And I stand by my point about feeling the mediocrity more in person. My answer to all of your rhetorical questions is, in fact, yes. There is a tangible difference between experiencing disappointment in the company of 20-30k people and throwing my remote at Buck and Tabby. There just is.

          I don’t want to get in the middle of your blood fued though. Just wanna watch some baseball. Enjoy.

      • Here’s the highlight reel then Ray:

        “I seriously wonder if any of the stats geeks have enough money to attend games”

        “The franchise can’t sustain itself on the hipster crowd of saber geeks who probably are too cheap to afford to pay for decent tickets”

        “Do even spend a dime attending Blue Jays games?

        Do your parents pay for your Rogers Cable TV package so you can watch the games.”

        Those are the most blatant ones just from the last 2 threads. Plenty of other less blatant ones.

        You tell me whether it’s the former or the latter and who has the sandy vagina around here ;)

      • Just because someone doesn’t go to the games doesn’t mean they are not a fan (or a lousy one). I have been a Blue Jay fan for 33 years (since I was 6) and I have never been to Toronto. (the ex always vetoed my proposed vacations to Toronto)
        I have my multiple Blue Jay items, my Dave Steib jersey and
        I spend my $250 for the MLB ticket every year watching 125-130 games (miss weekday afternoon games and a Friday night one sometimes) – hurting on every loss and happy on every win.
        The 1985 playoffs still hurts to this day especially when look at a pennant I have of the 1985 Blue Jays AL champions(they must have printed it ahead of time and released them)

        • Ya, don’t let me be on the side of denigrating out of town fans by any means. I was speaking more to the economics argument. If you ever make it up to Skydome, I’ll be sure to buy you a $15 beer (probably 20 by then).

      • No, I don’t attack fans who sit in the 500 section.

        The point I am trying to make is that Beeston asked for fans to show up to see the games BEFORE they would spend more money to build the team , or words to that effect.

        I did my part renewing the flexpack for $1300 plus other games I pay for attend on my own in the VIP section etc…

        I got upset being bashed as a casual fan that doesn’t understand the game etc .

        I am doing my best t support the team, but it’s not that fun going to games to watch the AAA lineup due to injuries.

  61. Oakville69

    “attack you personally” The only time I’ve seen that is when people were against your elitist attitude mocking those who can’t afford to attend games in person.

    Even better is that you make up execuses to justify why you think it’s ok to mock the less fortunate instead of apologizing for doing it.

    Shame on you.

    • Stop with the less fortunate shit man. Its not democrat vs republican its a fucking baseball game. Tickets to the upper bowl cost 13 dollars. If you flask it and buy street meat outside, that’s 16 bucks for a 4-5 hour evening out. No one is too poor for that, and those who are are also too poor to own the cable, internet and house required to be a fan of the Blue Jays in the first place.

      I understand you’ve got some weird fued with this guy, but comments like this are what ruin political blogs. Absolutely no place for it on a forum where everyone inherently shares the same point of view (Jays fans) No doubt oakville69 can be a jackass sometimes, but who isn’t? To paraphrase Sean Hannity, quit it with the class warfare.

      • See above ^^

      • A fan pass is $100 per season (failing that you can get tickets below face on Stubhub, you’re paying around $16 a ticket at the absolute most for a 500 level ticket), you’re allowed to bring in your own food to the Dome as long as it’s in a container, you can go to the Budweiser Good Sport booth and claim a free soft drink at every game. It’s really not that hard or expensive at all to get good value out of attending Blue Jays games. I don’t really buy the “less fortunate” crap. That being said, obviously attending games is not a prerequisite to being a fan.

      • Now there’s an idea. Maybe for the games that aren’t so popular, the Jays could give away 5,000 tickets to less fortunate children.

        That said their parents would probably force their kids to scalp the tickets, so maybe that wouldn’t work out so well.

      • Thanks.

        Let’s get back to basball talk

    • For fucks sakes,I’m trying to distance myself from this idiotic argument.

      Stoeten reads and writes 8 to 12 hours a day about the Jays.Yes,he does it for a living but he’s also a fan.Also a stats guy mostly ( although slowly converting to the dark side).

      How many games do you think he goes to each year?Even the games he watches are streamed ( hasn’t had cable in years).

      Do you think he doesn’t know jack shit or that he isn’t a fan?
      Economics has no effect on knowledge about the Jays or the bearing on whether you are a fan or not.

      • Precisely, which is why I was trying to point out what an asshole oakville69 was being by blatantly stating that it does. He pretty much said in as many words that us hipster stat geeks are too poor to go to games (which others have pointed out is asinine because ball games are pretty much the best possible bang for your entertainment buck) and he knows more about baseball because he drops fat wads of cash on good tickets.

        He sounds like the punk kid on the playground saying “my Dad can hire someone to beat up your Dad!” and I figured it was douchey enough to warrant calling him on it.

        Somehow everyone seems to completely have missed that point, probably because they don’t bother reading his drivel and therefore missed his condescension. They are wiser than I.

        However, I too am done with this argument seeing as most of the participants don’t seem to have bothered to figure out what it was even about to begin with.

        • I never said I know more about baseball that the hipsters do.

          It just seems ridiculous for hipsters to attack casual fans fr not understanding their point of view while not supporting the team financially.

          Don’t you think that it takes fans to support a team financially for it to operate?

          If you are a fan who cannot attend games because of financial issues, that’s OK.

          But it seems dumb to blast people that spend money on games because they have the audacity to disagree with AA/Rogers/Wilner/ Stoeten.

      • @ Radar,

        I enjoyed your radio debut.

        You’re right about fans not having to show up at games because of professional commitments etc…

        I think the problem is that much of the analysis of the team now reuires an economics/accounting background.

        the new hipster fans seem to be very concerned about a player;s cost vs his WAR value etc…

        I am sure there were Jays in 1992 1993 that underperformed their contract values.

        It scares me that the new fans seem to be happier with every player on the team performing at or above contract value vs whether or not the team as a whole wins any games.

        You may have to pay a premium to win a world series.

    • @ Looper,

      I don’t want to reshah the entire weekend of posts.

      You alluded to civil war among Jays fans.

      It seems that there are two sides. One that supports Rogers/AA plan without reservation & demonizes anyone that opposes it.

      The other side critcizes everything the Jays do, blames AAfor 20 years of Jays lack of playoffs etc..

      There are the new “hipster/stat geek etc” that look at baseball in a different way from older fans.

      There were plenty of articles in the newspaper on opening day about the new breed of fans & specifically mentioned Parkes & Stoeten as the new breed of fans.

      Parkes specifically mentioned that new fans like the new stat numbers & want the team to be cost efficient with the roster. For example don’t cheer if the Jays get Fielder because his contract amount in year 7,8,9 of his deal will pay him more than his output..

      I am sorry if I came of as elitist for making fun of people that know all the latest stats & agree with whatever AA does but don’t support the team financially.

      Sadly, if it wasn’t for casual fans the team would invest even less in payroll & you would have a very weak team.

  62. On a completely different note, nothing makes you go from elated to depressed quite like realizing the Jays are playing a day game (!) then realizing its against the fucking Rays.

  63. sadly guys the Jays are done for this year, best to let the rookies show their stuff and move on to yet year

  64. Gregor reporting that Lawrie’s been placed on the DL.

  65. Fucking Americans.

    Ah, that felt good.

  66. This blows. I wonder if AA can find a second baseman that can hit for average, and field? Kelly Johnson is spent and looking a little limp.

    • Of course somehow the Yankees – a team made up almost entirely of mercenaries – managed to DRAFT basically the only second baseman that fits that description. Fuck I hate the Yankees.

  67. Good news, everyone! Lawrie to DL.

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