What the Jeff Mathis?

The Jays have signed Jeff Mathis, of all people, to a two-year contract extension for $3-million, with a $1.5-million option for 2015… for some reason, continuing the club’s policy of not giving a shit about $3-million expenditures on guys who offer questionable value (hello, Dustin McGowan!).

But… OK, it’s easy– really, seriously, ridiculously fucking easy– to scoff at the news, which comes via a team release, though there are plausible rationales for it. Anyone who follows me on Twitter knows that I’m no Mathis fan– though I’ll be the first to admit that he’s actually hit better than I anticipated, sitting on a *COUGH* stellar *COUGH* .286 wOBA– but he’s a reasonably alright catch-and-throw backup at a position that’s probably going to require some stability as the question of JP Arencibia or Travis d’Arnaud is sorted out in the coming months.

On the surface it would be easy to quickly conclude that the writing is on the wall for JP Arencibia, who is by far the less valuable of the two young, controllable catchers the club has, but that’s not necessarily so. Sportsnet’s Barry Davis just tweeted, for example, that he sees Travis d’Arnaud being in Triple-A for the 2013 season, and while that’s a dispiriting thought, it’s entirely possible that he starts there. After all, d’Arnaud’s season was derailed by a knee injury and the club may want to ease him back behind the plate in the minors before asking him to make the step up to the big leagues.

Certainly, though, the possibility exists that Arencibia will be moved this off-season by the pitching-thin Jays, as has long been speculated, in which case having a holdover in Mathis– who by all accounts is liked and respected by his teammates, and has worked well with hitting coach Dwayne Murphy to try and improve at the plate– will help ease the transition for the pitching staff. His presence in that capacity may be ever more important should Arencibia be dealt mid-season.

Mathis would probably even still be useful on the bench in a scenario wherein the Jays held both catchers– for example, keeping Arencibia and his .343 career wOBA against lefties as a platoon mate at DH for Adam Lind.

So, we’re not talking about an offensive sum of money, not a term of contract that’s likely to cover any kind of decline phase (if that’s even possible), and there are a couple reasons why he’s a fine bit player to keep around. Jesus, Parkes doesn’t even hate it.

Still… Jeff Mathis?

(Oh, and also, according to a tweet from Gregor Chisholm, among others, Yorvit Torrealba, as well– on a minor league deal, that is. He’ll report to New Hampshire. Feel free to start refreshing Craigslist to see if Yan Gomes’ catching gear shows up any time now.)

 

Image via Tom Szczerbowski/Getty.

Comments (203)

  1. Shitty catchers are the new market inefficiency.

    • market inefficiency jokes are no longer a market inefficiency

      • So true, it’s absolutely exhausting reading these goddamn jokes. I think it just makes people feel intelligent to make an ecomomics reference, albeit the only one they know how to make.

        • how the fuck can a shitty joke become ‘exhausting’? especially after it was proved there is only a certain threshold for “…so here’s that” jokes before it is burned into the retinas of innocent reader

  2. Boy is AA going to be pissed when he finds out his junior clerk misspelled “Carlos Villanueva” as “Jeff Mathis”

  3. Fine for a mostly defense, vetern-y backup catcher type. No problem with this, really.

  4. There’s nothing wrong with extending Mathis. He’s a fine backup C. But just like JMac’s last contract in 2009 (which, I should add, DJF defended at the time), why does it have to be two years? Seems totally unnecessary.

    • I know it’s a different position, but the same was said when the Jays gave Janssen 2 years with a club option.

      The 2nd guaranteed year was probably given to get the club option. I know, I know it’s Jeff Mathis and who really cares about the 2nd year. But maybe AA sees a touch more value than is readily apparent.

  5. The fuck?
    They can’t get rid of me! The ladies love me! I’m a fan favourite!
    I always knew AA was a hater. Everyone hates JP, except the ladies.

  6. Guess this means either JPA is gong to be traded in the offseason or Travis ‘D is hurt worse than we were told

    • I don’t think it means either of these at all. Neither JPA or T’dA was going to be a backup to the other one. JP

      This is simply a case of checking off a position that they would’ve needed to secure in the offseason. Better now than then.

  7. This entire season has me very confused.

  8. I had never really watched Mathis much before this season. Despite the poor numbers overall I’ve really enjoyed watching him play.

  9. Not sure why people wouldn’t like this. Quality back up and we have no idea what he contributes of the stat sheets.

  10. I really don’t care much about this. Mathis is good defensively (Last night’s Delebar inning notwithstanding) and throws out a lot of attempted base stealers. Offensively he’s bad, I get that, but I think that can be overcome with good hitting from the rest of the line up. It does get to be a drag when he’s used as the main starter.

    I guess this means one of d’Arnaud and Arencibia are moving in the offseason.

    • Catchers that throw out a lot of baserunners do so because more players run on them. The best C’s (just like the best OFers) never get ran on so rarely throw out players

      • What I meant by that is he has the highest caught stealing rate in the majors (38%) so I guess he must never get run on?

      • Yep and that 89mph fastball he throws when making pitching appearances suggests his arm must really suck

    • agree with you voodoo.
      i think this pitching staff could use some stability at the C position going forward. he is a veteran….and the money is not a hell of a lot – it sure won’t preclude the Jays signing a solid free agent pitcher. same goes for the mcGowan signing small dollars – i don’t know what the big deal is – if nothing else it shows the rest of the players in MLB that the Jays are willing to take care of their own.

      • Ding, Ding, Ding…
        ” it shows the rest of the players in MLB that the Jays are willing to take care of their own,” <—- this is of critical importance. And is way too easily forgotten about

  11. I think the only way to read this is $1.5 per for two or three years of a serviceable backup catcher. Which isn’t that bad. We all know his upside (dependable defence; content to serve as a backup/mentor) and his downside (cannot reliably tell one end of the bat from the other). Seriously though, if you could expect reliable offence from a backup catcher, he wouldn’t be a backup. And the money is pretty small beer, really. So I’m not mad, just maybe a bit surprised that it’s for multiple years.

  12. starting to seem like darnaud will begin 2013 in minors, ugh just trade jpa already

    • TDA to the minors in 2013.

      You don’t put a rookie catcher who has been hurt that long in 2012 as a starter in the MLB or take a risk as a backup.

      D’arnaud could come up late in 2013 .

  13. Mean’s they’re either for sure trading JPA in the off season or they’re leaving d’Arnaud in the minors. My money is on the former.

    • Said w/ such conviction, yet it’s so very wrong. It doesn’t mean that at all, though that’s not to say that JPA won’t be traded in the offseason. One has nothing to do w/ the other.

  14. Maybe Buck Martinez is looking for some work on the side…..

  15. It’s about the pitchers, who have a 4.30 ERA pitching to Mathis and a 4.70 ERA with Arencibia. There are very good reasons to be skeptical about Catcher ERA, but this is not a one-year fluke. There’s a chance that it’s a real ability. The same thing happened in Anaheim every year that Mathis was there, and it applied to all the Angels’ pitchers.

    • lmao catcher era

      • Just because you don’t know why it happens doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Maybe he promises the umpire a reach around with a happy ending. Who cares why or how. If it’s just a fluke, the same fluke happened in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. Which makes it a fairly reliable fluke, no?

  16. Mathis is more than just a catch and throw catcher. Pay attention and watch how well he works with the pitching staff. I’ve been saying it all year and obviously I’m not the only one whose noticed.

  17. I really don’t like this deal at all. I think it’s just a waste of a roster space when d’Arnaud could easily take Mathis’ roster spot and be a right handed platoon at dh next year as well.

    Maybe the Jays don’t think d’Arnaud will be ready? Maybe one JPA or d’Arnaud is on their way out but I don’t see why either has to go at least this year. JPA did show overall improvements at the plate and on D. There’s every chance that another year under his belt would only increase his value further.

    As I said in a previous post for all the flack that JPA gets he is 14th in fWAR at 1.6 among catchers with nearly a month missed. For what you’re paying him and what you’re going to need to spend on pitching I really don’t see a need to move him. One thing we’ve seen is that depth isn’t a bad thing to have. He is also 15th in wRC+ ahead of guys like Saltalamacchia, Montero, Martin and Buck. Obviously, I’d love to see him walk more.

    The $1.5 million could have gone to other more pressing needs. I know it’s not a huge amount but you could have JPA and d’Arnaud both for $1 million total next year.

    With backup catchers being what they are I am sure they could have signed someone similar to a AAA deal that would have provided the additional depth Mathis brought.

    • I’ll respond NM.

      I Know it’s not popular but I think it’s unrealistic to expect D’arnaud to break with the club out of spring.
      He’s coming off a serious knee injury.He’s gonna need some game time to get back to where he was.
      Minimum 1/2 a season in AAA.

      • Well seeing this move with Mathis I tend to believe you’re going to be correct. Personally I see a lot more value in JPA than most so I find it difficult to believe that handing over a pitching staff for a supposedly contending team in 2013 to a rookie is in the works.

        I also happen to believe that someone with his level of minor league experience would also learn more at the major league level in a backup role from guys like JPA or Wakamatsu. Still since my first guess on d’Arnaud and JPA being the catchers for next year doesn’t look like it’s going to happen I am going to go with you on this one.

      • so because D’arnaud comes up in June instead of april, you sign mathis to a two year deal?

    • NM Agree with you on JPA. I think he needs to develop more and I think the Jays , if they were thinking of trading him, want to bring up his trade value so they can a/ figure out what they have in him and/or b/ get TDA the developmental time in the minors he’s missing with this injury.

    • LOL…1.5 mil to other pressing needs ARE YOU KIDDING ME? that is a bargain for a major league catcher. Mathis is a backup catcher, he has matched the career high in HR for Jose Molina, and is much younger. He is starting to learn how to hit as well. Even at .210 his defense makes him a good backup. If you are worried about 1.5mil breaking the bank we will never have a winning team. There is simply not room for both JPA and d’Arnaud and one of them will eventually leave.

  18. Solid back up, good teammate, meh, nothing to see here.

  19. What the fuck… oh, $3 million, meh whatever.

    Still, was expecting the team to platoon D’Arnaud/Arencibia at catcher.

  20. Jeff Mathis is trending on Twitter…

  21. Just because Mathis can’t hit doesn’t mean he’s a defensive catcher. Guy lets way more balls by than a defensive catcher should. I’ve noted many off his glove … many more, it seems, than JPA.

  22. It’s a decent deal. Mathis is good defensively even if he can’t hit a lick, and if D’Arnaud and JPA are healthy and productive, the Jays can always trade JPA.

  23. I hope this doesn’t mean that D’Arnaud could miss all of next year

  24. Good pick up for decent value. I think one of the Aaron Cibia or Darno will be gone in the off season.

  25. The reason people don’t like this is because Mathis is one of the worst hitters in baseball. He is not, as some have said, a perfectly acceptable back up. He’s a bad back up.

  26. 3 Million for 2 years for a back-up catcher and blow-out game reliever….2 for 1, love it.

  27. So, if this is our Game Threat, here’s our lineup!

    Ceremonial First Pitcher: Charlie Sheen

    Rajai “Platoon” Davis – 7
    Mike “Major League: Back To The Minors” McCoy – 8
    Edwin “Two And A Half Men” Encarnacion – 0
    David “Hot Shots!” Cooper – 3
    Yunel “Never on Tuesday” Escobar – 6
    Moises “Young Guns” Sierra – 9
    Kelly “Scary Movie” Johnson – 4
    Jeff “Money Talks”" Mathis – 2
    Adeiny “The Rookie” Hechavarria – 6

    Henderson “Eight Men Out” Alvarez – P

  28. save the MORE FORTHCOMING…you’re grasping at straws for things to talk about. every team needs a backup catcher

  29. If Torrealba is also coming, really don’t get this.

    Mathis, Torrealba and Gomes…collectively in 2012, -0.3 WAR. With Mathis the only positive. The entire lot is apparently replaceable.

    Given that, Mathis until JPA and D’Arnaud return to action, I guess…but wow.

    • AJ Jiminez is hurt. Carlos Perez was traded, and as mentioned, JPA and TDA are on the shelf. Better Torrealba than fucking Tuffy.

      The Mathis extension makes sense and it has no bearing on the future of either JPA or TDA. One will win the job eventually and the other will likely be traded. Mathis will do his thing as backup.

  30. $1 mill had been the standard for a decent back up catcher for a while so its a slight increase to have certainty rather than wait to see who is a FA and who may be willing to be a back up. And the 500k we could potentially save by getting someone cheaper would be used to do what exactly? Ensure we can sign the next Prince Fielder? Before you give us more, please do an analysis of back up catcher’s wOBA and the like, then tell us what there average salary is and then tell us what you really think of the deal

  31. I really don’t understand the hate that Mathis gets from Stoeten and Parkes. Sure the guy can’t really hit but that’s why he’s being used as a backup catcher. $3 million over 2 years is nothing to solidify the backup catcher role. At the very least, if you’re not a Mathis fan, this is a very minor move.

  32. The thing that makes the most sense to me is that they’ve pencilled TDA in next year.

    I actually believe in “veteran mentorship” when it comes to catching, so if that’s the plan this makes sense.

    The $$ is totally fine, and 2 years isn’t going to kill anyone.

    • Have they? Did they come out and say he’s going to be the starting catcher next year? Like you I’m a believer in mentoring period. However, JP’s got 2 years under his belt and you have Wakamatsu a former catcher there as well. More than enough to go around and still have d’Arnaud as a backup/dh.

      • I’m not saying they have, I’m saying that’s what makes the most sense *to me*.

        If the Jays want to trade for s top-tier pitcher, a young, MLB experienced catcher who hits for power has value.

        Just my opinion.

        • No that’s fair enough I thought you were claiming they had given him a spot already.

          You’re opinion is just as valid as mine I have no problem with that at all. God knows I am certainly as opinionated as anyone on here.

    • Can’t pencil in TDA when he won’t have played in 10 months. He’s gonna need rehab time in AAA to get back where he was.

      • Not that I agree with allisauce but wouldn’t he have the AFL and spring training?

        • The AFL and ST aren’t good barometers to show he’s fully back to form.
          I may be wrong ( I may been before though I can’t remember LOL) but I’d be surprised to to see him break with the team out of ST

          • I suppose it really all depends on recovery, and how far advanced the Jays thought he was in LV.

            All conjecture at this point, will be an interesting story line heading into the winter.

          • I’d certainly be surprised if the Jays trusted d’Arnaud with the full-time job immediately right out of the gate next year, that’s for sure.

        • But you ARE agreeing with me!

          :)

      • From what I understand he’s supposed to be playing in the AFL.

        He’d have all of ST to get re-acclimatized.

  33. 4th most defensive runs saved from 2010-2012 — which would actually come pretty close to Wieters and Molina if he played the same number of innings as them. That can’t be too bad for a back up….can it?

  34. Perhaps this means the club is intent on getting an extra year of control from TDA. Having catcher depth will be nice to have.

    • Well keeping him AAA for at least the start of the season certainly does that. I guess it also gives them additional time to move one of them so that they can get max value and time it to their benefit.

      • TDA isn’t some young pup..he’s already 23…if you are telling me that they would keep him down one more year just for control purposes…a guy that by all measures is ready for the bigs, then he would be a rookie at 25. that is nearing “old” status for a highly ranked rookie prospect

        • So TDA is ready?
          Let’s bring him up in Sept.
          Oh ya he’s injured.And it’s his knee. And he’s a catcher.
          Should be up by Sept 15th then.

  35. Here is something being overlooked on both this and the McGowen contract: When you have loyal soldiers, guys who do as the team asks, and guys who fit in with the team, guys who are team players and who you like to have around, it makes sense maybe to over pay them or give them a slightly higher and/or longer contract than necessary. Who cares? Its not your money and it isnt going to detract from money being spent elsewhere. Both these contracts are going to show other players and agents that the Jays are loyal and that they do business the right way. When you are the only team in a foreign country, little things like this can go along way for making up for tax issues, travel issues, living arrengement issues etc. So what if they didnt HAVE to sign McG? The guy has the worst luck. has probably had injuries cost him a career as a star player and maybe even around a hundred million dollars, depending on how good he would have been (I am guess very fucking good indeed). McGowen deserved a little golden parachute contract and I am guessing that the Jays will reap a basket full of intangbles for giving it out. Complaining about this kind of thing is stupid. As an aside, if you want to be less stupid, read novels.

    • Absolutely agree with everything you said

    • This is just stupid. The jays will reap no reward from this whatsoever. There’s no allstar player looking for a big contract that will think “hey, I’m going with the Jays because they’ll even pay replacement level players when they’re injured”

      If anything this will hurt the jays chances at getting premier talent because it will attract more below average players to the team that good players will not want to play with.

    • The loyalty arguement in this case does not hold any water. The gu0y has been with the team for less than a season and, I suspect, is just happy to have a job. There has been no time to build loyalty. If the loyalty arguement is being used, the Jays would have been better off giving this contract to Mike McKoy .

    • That being said, I agree with this deal and asked in the comments yesterday if JPA’s time with the team was coming to an end. The jays used rookie JPA and Molina last year so they are not opposed to have a rookie catcher and a solid defensive veteran to teach and fill in. They have a semi valuable piece in JPA to use for starting pitching to go along with depth at centre field and SS, so this move seems like a no brainer. The only question is when JPA is moved and that seems to depend on how they feel TDA’s recovery is going and if he needs some extra time in AAA get back to where he was.

      Keeping them both for platoon purposes is a waste of a trading chip and may slow TDA’s develpment. He needs a full time gig and the AB that go with it.

  36. Gregg Zaun has on consecutive nights called Jeff Mathis and Rajai Davis “everyday players.” If Zaun was a GM, how many games would the team he constructs win? 45? 50? 55 at best?

  37. Catcher might be the one position where you want some continuity.

    If the Jays are open to trading JPA this winter – and we have no idea that they are – would they really want to go with two new catchers in D’arnaud and his backup?

    Of course I’d rather this be a 1 year deal even without a club option. But there is zero evidence that Mathis would have accepted such a deal. I think he had a decent chance of getting 2 years on the open market and obviously AA felt it was worth this amount to keep him here.

  38. Ugh, Dirk “The Professor” Hayhurst is a terrible colour man.

    • I’ve been trying to find some kind of radio stream to hear him. (My radio is being stupid and not working.) I’m pretty sure all colour men started off terrible. The question is, can he learn? I imagine you can learn a lot from Jerry.

      • The problem with his color commentary is it sounds like he is rehearsed and reading a speech, doesn’t sound like spontaneous banter.

        during the golden era of baseball radio, the commentary was free flowing, it was you just sitting in on a conversation between two guys talking about something you were very interested in .

  39. Fucking Quintana. Creep can roll.

  40. So what happened to Colby? David said he was starting in cf and batting second?

  41. Did Youk hurt himself on that play?
    Seemed to be wincing.

  42. There could be worse places to spend 3mil on a 2 year contract.

  43. What a horseshit call. Why do the Jays always get called for these stupid things that otherwise never seem to be enforced?

  44. HOLY FUCK – do we really need these retard fans with front row foul line seats – take that guys tickets away – I bet that guy would have had no problem interfering with Escobar or Hechavarria or Lawrie so he can get his precious ball, but can’t get his fucking head in the game to interfere with Yuck – don’t lean out into play, but form that wall at the fence to block the opposing player –

    can almost guarantee we are going to have a Toronto Bartman incident when the Jays are playoff worthy

  45. Anatomy of an at bat vs Henderson Alvarez ..

    strike, strike, ball, foul, foul, foul, foul, ball, foul foul, foul, ball, foul, foul, foul, foul, foul, hit

  46. God save us from Henderson Alvarez.

  47. So batters have a contact rate of nearly 90 percent when they swing at an Alvarez pitch. This is not good. Not good at all

    • I feel bad for the kid. It’s not his fault that this organization failed to acquire some adequate starting pitching. Now they are risking retarding his development so they can shove him in as a stopgap on a failing 2012.

      I would have rather signed any piece of shit replacement level veteran in the offseason if it meant that Alvarez could get some time in the minors and a CHANCE at developing an out-pitch.

      • good point. not his fault at all. the CHANCE at developing an out pitch is a term well stated. There is no guarantee he could or would develop such a pitch, but down there he could at least attempt to learn such a pitch without any real consequence.

        they really thought he could just do it up here on the fly…..and now he sort of has to.

        • Alvarez needs a better slider and he needs to use his changeup more frequently. It seems that he has abandoned the changeup.

          Given his arm action and his natural stuff and velocity, Delabar should teach him how to throw a splitter. Having a 4-seam and 2-seam, to go with a changeup and splitter, Alvarez could turn things around.

  48. Pretty sure our pitchers could achieve better than an 095 average .. perhaps we should let them hit and have the DH bat for Hech

  49. Major bummer.

  50. A comedy of errors, FFS.

  51. And thats why they paid Mathis the small bucks.

  52. why are we talking about Mathis from just an offensive standpoint. Yes, I know the offensive stats are easier to look at, understand and are more likely less fallible than the defensive metrics….but we should probably try to do more than just look at his batting stats — or else Dunn would make an awesome catcher? Kind of just shows that if there are no stats for it you find it hard to actually hold a conversation about it?

  53. (tunes into the game)

    Why the fuck is Mike McCoy in Centre Field?!?!

  54. I’m just catching up on the opinions on Mathis, JPA and D’arnaud. Most seem to think that this spells the end of JPA, and Mathis will end up mentoring D’arnaud or Darnaud get’s traded for pitching.

    D’arnaud is set to play fall ball so I could see him finding his swing again, then starting in AAA in 2013 until everyone is comfortable he is 100%. I think we could then bring up Darnaud in late May early June and move JPA to DH and start Darnaud at C. If Anthopolous doesn’t get the value he feels is fair we have room for both guys.
    Arencibia may not like moving of C but with all due respect – Fuck him.
    If it makes the team better, take it like a man.
    You could platoon Arencibia with Lind and let the top 10 prospect in all of ball start his career.

  55. Nice to see Hech get a double, maybe cool the trash talk from some of these guys writing off his bat after 22 career AB’s

  56. Man Alvarez has been another all or nothing pitcher this year

    - in 10 out of his 23 starts, including tonight, he’s allowed 2 ER or less
    - another 2 starts where he went 7 and allowed 3 ER but
    - 2 starts with 3 ER allowed in 5 IP
    - 9 starts with 4 or more ER

    At least he’s been an innings eater. He’s averaged 6.18 innings per start after tonight.

    Would love for the Jays to get 3 starters this winter to give him half a year more in the minors to perfect some kind of breaking ball.

    • Although AA has said the only two “sure things” in 2013′s rotation are Romero and Morrow… they are still two HUGE question marks.

      I wouldn’t be surprised to see Villaneuva resigned as a #4 and Happ put into the #5 spot.

      I see maybe one starter picked up this offseason (if you don’t count Villaneuva).

    • Hey Stoeten – any chance you’d consider changing the comments system? It kinda sucks. The replies never work.

    • Considering Alvarezs age and the fact that he hasn’t developed an out pitch yet – ive been super impressed with him. I’m really looking forward to getting a better sense of his ceiling as he progresses.

  57. I don’t have a huge issue with it. He’s as good a choice as any to be the backup next season. A JPA/TDA combo behind the plate is poor asset management and neither of those guys have a bat that plays at 1B or DH in 2013. JPA or TDA with a veteran backup of Mathis’ ilk breaking camp next season seemed obvious to me. I’m not sure a servicable backup capable of mentoring the starter (read: D’Arnaud) could be had for 1.5 million. As mentioned above, the second year is questionable, but all in all, I have no problem with this. I didn’t understand the McGowan deal, but for a relative pittance I didn’t really care that much. This deal makes a hundred times more sense in my opinion.

    • This just gives AA some flexibility. He can trade JPA or D’Arnaud knowing he can run Mathis out there as the everyday catcher if need be. For people thinking this means for sure JPA is going to be traded in the offseason… it does take two to tango. Who would be a realistic taker for him?

      I’m talking out of my ass here… but how realistic is it to bring in D’Arnaud as your full-time catcher in a year where you hope to start competing? Don’t you want someone who has the experience with the pitching staff, calling games, the league’s hitters, etc? I know Buster Posey did it in 2010, but is that realistic for a rookie catcher or an anamoly? Even if the keys aren’t turned over to D’Arnaud in 2013, how do teams typically handle this transition?

    • .242 avg with .466 slugging 16 HR’s and 50 RBI’s – JPA when injured.
      Was on pace for 25 Hr’s and 79 RBI’s in a projected 443 at bats in ONLY his 2nd season in the league.

      That is more then playable at DH sir.
      Give him another 100 or 150 at bats and those numbers could be 30hr’s 100 rbi’s.

      • wRC+ 97… below league average.

        .316 wOBA… below league average.

        Not really the kind of production you want from your DH. Can’t take a fucking walk to save his life (.279 OBP).

        • Use him primarily against lefties, Lind vs Righties and JPA’s numbers will be much better. Something like what Andrew Jones is doing for NY. Who cares if he doesn’t take a walk. If he hits bombs against lefties he could be part of a powefull platoon. If the Jays want to take the next step from the bottom of the East to competing for first or wild card you need talent like that coming off the bench. Examples like Rangers with Murphy, Yankees with Jones, Ibanez etc….

          • Turning a 25 HR catcher with 4 years of control into an Andruw Kones/Raul Ibanez platoon bat is remarkably poor asset management.

          • Yes Brumfield, but if you read my post from much earlier this was an example of what can be done if the Jays don’t get what they are looking for in trade value. I don’t give a shit if “an asset” sits on the bench against righties, if he mashes lefties and makes the Jays better isn’t that what an asset should be used for?

            • You get guys like that off the scrap heap. You don’t turn young players at premium positions into something like that. I’d be stunned if the Jays couldn’t get something that projects to something better than a right-handed platoon DH bat for JPA.

      • 100 RBI’s??!!11!!! Wow!

        Fuck off, he can’t get on base, and he’s a pure hacker. That’s fine as a catcher, but as a DH he’s brutal and has zero value.

      • Fair enough. Nonetheless, he has way more value to another team (tonight’s opponent, perhaps?) as a long-term catcher than he does to the Jays as a 1B/DH. I think he could fetch some value in areas of greater need for the Jays.

  58. Aaron Loup, you guys.

  59. Very impressive, Coop.

  60. Yan fucking Gomes? ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

  61. Gomes is fucking horrendous.

  62. Bottom of the 9th? Way to go Mathis. Fuck taking pitches.

  63. So Rasmus was available to bat for gomes and they left him in there?

    I doubt the sox would have walked him and put the lead run on base, but fuck even if they did, who cares..its still the better move than letting Screech hit

  64. lol when your pinch runner is 45 years old.

  65. Read the comments here and you’ll have a good view of what shit fans Toronto has.

  66. I guess Rasmus can’t run all that well, otherwise I’d be tempted to call Farrell a dipshit extraordinaire.

  67. Ah, fuck.

  68. AA suggests that TDA could be a DH next year

    • I think that it’s important that Gose, Hech and TDA (and to a lesser extent, Sierra) get daily at bats. I cringe knowing that we’ve called him Gose and Hech only to fucking bench them. There are major question marks surrounding their ability to hit, and the only way they are going to get better is through practice. Why call them up and fucking bench them? Fucking stupid.

      If TDA were to get called up, I would hope he’d get at bats either through Catcher/1B/DH on a daily basis.

    • So looks like I was only half wrong in that d’Arnaud is unlikely to get reps behind the plate but still possibly dh. That’s got to possibly mean end of days for Lind. I could see d’Arnaud getting 2 games a week behind the plate and then being a dh vs Lefties/bat off the bench the rest of the time but if he’s not going to be catching games it wouldn’t leave a lot of games for him to play in if he was just part of a platoon vs Lefties.

      I still think something else will have to change for him to get a decent amount of playing time and that can mean either JPA getting traded or Lind getting the boot. From what AA said in the interview it looks like JPA is going to be the starter at this point.

      Still that’s not to say d’Arnaud being strictly a platoon player at DH and bat off the bench to start the year isn’t a possibility. When I broke down the roster spots the other day they had room for a 3rd bench player after Davis and the Utility Infielder. There’s no rule saying that it has to be a 5th outfielder type of course like they did with Fransisco to start 2012. I wonder if d’Arnaud is athletic enough to play Left? I mean they’ve played Gomes there before.

      As for Lind I wonder if they will finally pull the plug on him for good. He certainly looked way better than he has in a long time since he got called back up. You also have to remember EE didn’t exactly light things up when he first came back up after being sent to AAA.

  69. once again everybody seems to forget about how difficult it is to attract players to play in toronto.

    the blue jays will probably never be able to attract the type of players we dream about for a number of reasons, so they make signings like this, on a very likeable guy who is well received throughout the league, to show they are loyal to those who dont try and run out of town.

    this show of loyalty is recognized by players throughout the league and starts to change the perception of playing for the blue jays around the league.

    • Winning can easily change that perception.

      • Money talks. Just because they aren’t willing to pay for players doesn’t mean they aren’t willing to come.

        • You must’ve missed Dirk Hayhurst’s chat on the his show today. He said what Beeston and AA have been saying all along: FA’s dont want to come to a foreign country when they have a choice. and the money’s the same. The Jays have to pay extra to bring them here because of that. If the Jays contend and win, FA’s are easier to attract.

          • The money is never the same. That would be called collusion…

          • I don’t care what Hayhurst (a paid Rogers employee) says, I care what history shows. And history shows that Free Agents will sign in Toronto.

      • what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

        how can you win without a better team. how can you build a better team without winning?

    • RE players not wanting to be in Canada – Frank Thomas, AJ Burnett, BJ Ryan, Re-signed Halladay twice (plus Bautista, EE, Romero, Morrow), all the guys in the World Series years.

      Let’s just drop the insecure Canadian narrative, huh? When they’ve been willing to spend more than other team – they’ve gotten free agents. Unless you’re a perennial contender or the hometown of a player – that’s the way it goes.

      I’m sure there are some guys who dont want to go to Canada (or Detroit, KC, Cin, Min, Pit etc) .. But don’t kid yourself. They bid the most, theyll usually get the player. It’s about money.

      • there are 2 legitimate all stars on that list in halliday and batiusta. sorry to say it, but romero would be a back end starter in most other rotations, and morrow hasnt been healthy for long enough to be an all star. when frank thomas signed here for an embarassing amount of money when he was on his very last legs so he definitely doesnt count.

        sports arent the same now as they were in the world series years… an athletes agent and endorsement opportunities often have more of a say than anything. think about whether nike would want one of its marquee athletes playing in cleveland or in LA?

        its not an insecure canadian narrative, its an understanding of how professional athletes work. to make 12 million per year in toronto or 10 million per year in st louis wouldn’t even be a question in most players minds. its the guys who follow the money (bj ryan, kevin gregg) that the blue jays should have no interest in.

        in my opinion, the jays need to build themselves to become a stable organization. no more coaching changes every year and a half. serious players want to play for contenders, and to be a contender the organization has to be run the same was as contending organizations are. hopefully that will attract the type of players that a team like st louis attracts, who can help you contend year in and year out.

        • What players are you talking about? Name one player who took less than he was offered elsewhere to go to St Louis – and don’t say Carlos Beltran because it seems pretty likely that he’d never received an offer from Toronto.

          I know we want athletes to want to win above all else and all that shit, but the truth is that they, like us, look at only one line on their contracts.

        • Endorsement opportunities don’t mean shit in baseball. You can probably count the number of baseball players you’ve in the past calendar year seen in commercials promoting non-baseball products on one hand. Derek Jeter, Justin Verlander, Joe Mauer. That’s about all I can think of. Pujols is possibly the greatest player of this generation and has practically no national endorsement deals (if not none).

          You’re conflating basketball with baseball. Basketball artificially restricts salaries, such that the money is basically equal everywhere. Basketball superstars are marketing powerhouses that carry billion dollar shoe brands by themselves. Baseball superstars market Head and Shoulders. For elite players, free agency in baseball cannot be compared with free agency in basketball.

    • Based on what?

    • I seem to recall the Raptors had no problems signing the best of the best and anyone who they wanted to sign, back when Vince Carter was good.

      Players have no issue signing with a winning team. That, far more than our country, affects who signs here.

      If you can’t come up with any examples of star players signing here recently, I would point out that there hasn’t been any good Toronto teams recently.

      • Basketball is essentially different from baseball because the money is always the same. Basketball has very restrictive rules on what you can offer a player & for how long. LeBron James just has to decide which of 32 teams he will choose to pay him $15 Million.

        Baseball is completely different. Prince Fielder gets a 6 year, $150 Million dollar offer from the Yankees (probably not true, but for sake of argument). The Tigers offer 10 years, $225 Million. The beauty of baseball is that players – except veterans who will take nothing for a chance at a ring – always have the opportunity of taking the best offer, and if that best offer is in Toronto they will take it.

  70. Hope second base is resolved as easily as back up receiver.

  71. from a fb post

    “rihanna should date someone from the blue jays. they don’t beat anybody”

  72. AA must have had a slow day in the office and was bored so he decided to do 2 minor transactions involving catchers. Im not crazy about it but mathis is ok as a backup even though he cant hit at all. Im not a fan of arencibia and his obp so if it means its the end for him as a jay im all for it as long as darnaud is the starter come april or he can even split time with mathis to break in. The guy they should be signing to an extension is villanueva. I have a feeling if the jays dont reach an extension with him its because villanueva didnt want to and not vice versa.

  73. I don’t know if everyone else saw it, but in Davidi’s column on Mathis AA says D’Arnaud might be the DH in 2013.

    • I saw that… My thought behind that would be the AA certainly can’t say that either JP or TDA will be getting the starting job. I would think that would lower their value ever so slightly. He has to make them both continue to appear to be valuable for the opportunity for a trade.

      I like to give AA credit as a smart guy, and I just can’t see a scenario where having 3 guys on the roster who profile as C’s only is a good thing for the club.

  74. Uhhh, just saw Gregg Zaun on Sportsnet Connected, and he said the Jays should trade D’Arnaud because him and JP are the same player…

    • Yeah, Zaun was saying the exact same thing in the off season. I have no idea where he gets this shit.

    • zaun has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to anyone in the minors… he probably thought vernon wells and mike trout were the ‘same player’ at this point last year.

  75. Seriously???? How can anyone bitch about this extention? Mathis has been a decent veteran back-up. How many teams have a back-up catcher much better than Mathis? Not many…

    It definitely helps JPA or D’Arnaud to have a veteran presence around for their development

    • Every team has a better back up than Mathis.

      You guys are seriously under-estimating how bad at hitting he is. He’s one of the worst batters of the last 50 years. No amount of defence (which is good but not great) can make up for that.

  76. Would someone who gets paid to write about baseball for a living care to research this trend around here of people adopting this “free agents won’t come to Toronto” inferiority complex/excuse?

    I’ve been mulling names around for a few days now (unscientifically) and still can’t come up with a real marquee guy who didn’t go where the money was best. I also have a few non circumstancial reasons why that should be:

    1. Agents are almost as important as the players themselves in deciding which contract to pick and where the player goes. This is because agents are relied upon to negotiate and to review potential contracts. As actorswho are paid a percentage of the contract, which do you think is most important; money or location?

    2. Don’t underestimate the pressure placed on players by the union to take the most money. Players are expected to take the highest offer available so that they ‘set the market.’ While it might make us feel all warm and fuzzy that left handed pitcher x took a hometown discount, it takes money out of the pockets of both other similar and lesser LHP as well as future stars who have that deal as a precedent.

    3. Don’t forget that especially in a sport like baseball where each player has only one spot to fill for the most part that teams aren’t always competing for the same guys. There are few enough teams in the running for players that the deals offered are differentiable by term or amount.

    There are like 7 more useful points to make, but this post veered into tl;dr zone like two paragraphs ago. The conclusion is that the Jays have had excellent reasons for not going for FA the past few years – baseball reasons. This mythical hatred that players have for Toronto is not one of them.

    • “This mythical hatred that players have for Toronto is not one of them.”

      Talk to Scott Rolen.

    • I have a bit of experience in this from an agent/union perspective (albeit in a different professional sport), so I’ll give you what I think based on my experiences.

      Regarding agents, I agree, that agents are very important in these types of decisions, however, I don’t agree that means that agents are going for the biggest payday in every situation. The most important thing to note about the player/agent relationship is the insane amount of client poaching going on. Some agents use this reality of the industry to find the biggest cash grab they can, accepting that the player may be moving on to a different agent for his next contract. Other agents will do actual work for a player beyond the numbers on paper, and will approach the situation from all angles, These agents care a lot about situation, this is where the Dustin McGowan/John Buck memorial “the Jays take care of their own” narrative rings true in reality. It also means that agents will put a player on a short-term deal in a good situation to set up for a big long-term deal next time around (i.e. Edwin Jackson).

      The union thing, I’ve seen with my own eyes too. It certainly does happen in varying degrees, but the industry catchphrase is that “you can’t take the pen out of the guy’s hand.” if the guy is going to take a hometown discount, he’s going to do it eventually. In such situations, the union will encourage the player to hold off on signing the below-market contract until the comparable players who are likely to be affected have landed with other teams. At that point, the hometown discount player can sign his contract with the least amount of damage as possible.

      Agreed with your third point. If the Jays are willing to drop the most term and/or salary on a free agent, most free agents will be jumping aboard.

  77. CJ wilson, cliff lee, carlos beltran, jared weaver (not a free agent but sign an extension well below market value)…

    it is not an inferiority complex… there are several good reasons why players would choose to go elsewhere:

    1- this team hasn’t been a winner in almost 20 years.
    2- we are one of two teams in the majors that plays on turf
    3- the stadium is antiquated and half empty
    4- we are a foreign country… so there are hoops to jump through with regard to travel, taxes etc.

    i’m not suggesting that it is impossible to attract marquee free agents… just that you have your head in the sand if you don’t recognize that this organization faces several significant challenges in this regard… some of which are unique to the blue jays… and any of which could cause a player to choose another option.

    • Cliff Lee and CJ Wilson both took the most money that was offered to them. Carlos Beltran too. Spot on on Jared Weaver, and I know it sounds like a quibbling distinction, but players often take less to sign an extension regardless of the ‘desirability’ of the franchise; Roy Halladay, Evan Longoria, Albert Pujols the first time around etc.

      I agree with you that if the Blue Jays and Cardinals both offered a player identical $20 Million contracts over identical two year terms to play an identical role on the respective teams, then the player would likely pick the Cardinals. But that just doesn’t happen. Its not basketball, its an actual free market auction system.

  78. So, since I’m bored at work, question for everyone here.

    Imagine you are AA this winter. What do you do?

    Only limitation is: your major league payroll spending limit is $100 million. And you must use http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=142 for salaries.

    Unless you sign him to an extension, assume Colby Rasmus will receive $4.5 million in arbitration. (It’s a ballpark figure.) For the other arbitration eligibles, give Laffey, Litsch, and Happ approximately what they got this season.

    Try to be somewhat realistic. I’ll be playing the next time I get a spare moment at work.

    • To help you out:

      We start out with a base payroll of $59.3 million, which gives us:

      Bautista, Romero, Lind, Escobar, Morrow, Encarnacion, Hechavarria, Janssen, Santos, McGowan.

      You have two club options on Oliver and Davis ($3 million/$0.5 mil buyout), same price for each.

      Any non-arb eligible we’ll round up to $500,000; so for Arencibia, Drabek, Perez, D. Carpenter, Alvarez, Lawrie, Carreno, and Delabar, you’re paying $4 million total. Any rookie you want to add to this list (like, say, D’Arnaud, or Lincoln) is another $500,000; any one you want to remove from that list is $500,000 saved.

      • Pretty fun way to kill a half hour:

        Sign Colby Rasmus to 3 year, $15M contract with $6.5M option
        Sign Carlos Villanueva to 2 year, $9M contract with $5M option
        Give JA Happ $3.5M in arbitration
        Buy out Rajai and Oliver for $1M

        Next comes the big gamble: offer Zack Greinke 5 year, $130M contract (largest in history) with $25M option
        If he says yes, congratulations; plug in Sierra at LF for now, Hech and Yunel in the middle, TDA to AAA and Cecil to the bullpen. $97M.
        If he says no, trade Yunel, JPA, Gose (& a pitching prospect if necessary) to MIA for Josh Johnson and Emilio Bonifacio. Congratulations; at $87M you have $10M left to spend on a LF. Just for fun I’m going to say BJ Upton at 4 years, $50M which eases you to $100M. But you might want to pocket the change (for now) to see what Sierra/Marisnick can do and load up for resigning Johnson.

        Caveats; both of those teams send Henderson Alvarez to the minors for seasoning, both teams will escalate in cost because of arb for bullpen and both (unfortunately) use Adam Lind/David Cooper platoon at first. Playoffs baby!

        • Final Roster (for second team which is more fun):

          DH: Lind/Cooper
          C: TDA
          1B: Chicken Wing
          2B: Bonifacio
          SS: Hech
          3B: Canadian Jesus
          RF: Jose
          CF: Colby
          LF: BJ Upton (lol, probably Sierra)
          BN: Mathis, McCoy
          SP: Johnson, Morrow, Romero, Happ, Villanueva
          RP: Santos, Janssen, Delabar, Loup, Lincoln, Cecil, Carreno, Jenkins.

    • So, as AA, I start out with this:

      C: Arencibia
      1B: Encarnacion
      2B: Hechavarria
      SS: Escobar
      3B: Lawrie
      LF: Gose
      CF: Rasmus
      RF: Bautista
      DH: D’Arnaud
      Bench: Davis, Mathis, McCoy, Lind

      SP: Morrow, Romero, Alvarez, Happ, Cecil
      RP: Janssen, Santos, Lincoln, Oliver, Delabar, Loup, Jenkins

      That comes out to $70.8 million, leaving me about $30 million to improve the team.

      Moves:
      +Greinke is offered a $20 million per year, five year deal, which he declines.
      +Dempster is offered the same deal. 50/50 he takes it, leaving us with $9 million to spend, which we give to Villanueva to be our fourth starter, and Frasor to fill the bullpen. This gives us a rotation of Dempster, Morrow, Romero, Villanueva, and Alvarez. Not terribly exciting, but better than what we had.
      +If Dempster doesn’t take the deal, we sign two starters for ~$20 million, either A. Sanchez/Marcum, or E. Jackson/McCarthy. We then use the remaining money to sign David Ortiz, who wants out of Boston after their ownership keeps Valentine on, and specifically wants to sign with an AL East team so he can bash Boston 18 times a year, Roger Clemens-style. Gose gets sent to the minors, and we rotate EE/Ortiz/D’Arnaud among LF/1B/DH, with EE picking up most of the LF starts.
      +In both cases, Alvarez and Cecil to the minors.

      At mid-season, Jays are off to a roaring start, slightly better than this season, and this time only Sanchez gets injured (replaced by Alvarez). At the trade deadline, Jays are only 2 games out of the division lead, so AA asks Rogers for more money, and they respond. Arencibia, who has a bounceback season, gets traded for Gallardo, Gose + a pitching prospect is flipped for Headley, and Gallardo and Headley plus another pitching prospect are flipped for Upton, who is still having yet another bad year.

      This allows EE to move back to first, Ortiz back to DH, and D’Arnaud to Catcher. Morrow goes down with injury in August, but comes back in September to lead the Jays to a win in the wild-card game, and lose in the ALDS, and AA gets an even bigger budget for the following season, which he then uses to again pursue that mystical “ace.”

      • It doesn’t sound very impressive, I’ll grant, but an $100 million payroll doesn’t buy what it used to.

      • On second thought, $20 million for Dempster is insane. Change the Dempster thought process to: offer Dempster $14 million over four years, axe Frasor, and offer $10 million to Papi. A Dempster/Morrow/Romero/Villanueva/Happ rotation wouldn’t be great, but it would be a start. Drabek can replace whoever sucks at mid-season.

        • Ya Dempster would have the biggest stipper party in history if he was offered 20 Mil. I’m a fan of that team, though I don’t much care for David Ortiz…

      • Zack Greinke will likely stay in California, either with the Angels or the Dodgers. He’s gotta take care of his girl’s fantasy of becoming an actress.

        Dempster will likely return to a NL team. I wouldn’t go hard after him as his stuff plays better against NL lineups and ballparks. I can see Dempster going to the Dodgers if Greinke stays with the Angels.

        Guaranteed rotation spots go to Morrow, Romero and probably Alvarez. Happ and Cecil will get shots in ST. AA should make an offer to retain Villanueva but with his newfound success as a starter (in 12 starts or so), he might want to test the FA market. Carlos is a smart cookie. AA will have to offer a sweet deal. Assuming he is retained, the rotation could look like this:

        1. Morrow and
        2. Romero; then these guys who will fight for a spot:

        3. Alvarez;
        4. Cecil;
        5. Villaneuva;
        6. Happ;
        7. Jenkins.

        From the second tier, Alvarez & Jenkins have minor league options. I believe Cecil could still have one more option. Villanueva and Happ are out of options and would have to stick with the big club.

        With Drabek and Hutch being out for 2013, and having only two guaranteed spots, AA needs to find some arms to pitch 500 to 525 innings from the rotation.

        We know about Alvarez’s struggles with missing bats. He can eat innings, which has some value. In a perfect world, Alvarez provides 150-175 innings with mediocre periphials.

        AA may look at trading Cecil to a NL club or peg him as a reliever. Cecil’s consistent inability to get RH outs is becoming a nuisance. We might see Cecil make a few token starts before his destiny is finally sealed (trade or bullpen assignment). Perfect world projections would see Cecil provide 75 innings from the rotation.

        Villanueva is quietly putting together a nice season. But is he durable enough to last in a long season and as a starter? How many innings can he deliver? No track record to speak of. Ultimately, his ceiling might be as a very good 6th starter and long reliever. From the rotation, the Jays should be happy seeing 100 innings with league average periphials. Mind you, if Villanueva finishes the season strongly, it might convince AA to make the sweet deal offer and hope that Villanueva can go longer.

        Happ is out of options and could be a DFA candidate if he fails to make the team. Much like Villanueva, he could be the long man and occasional 6th starter. Most see him as a nice bullpen arm with some starter potential. Happ could provide 50 innings.

        Jenkins will likely spend the bulk of his time in the minors. I think the Jays still see starter potential but most prospect gurus see him becoming a good middle to long reliever at the MLB level. If he can continue pitching well and doesn’t implode, Jenkins is a likely call-up from the minors and could provide some spot starts for the big club. Let’s say he provides 50 innings.

        Tier guys are at a very tedious, perfect world 425 innings, providing below league average quality. Not very inspiring. Obviously, the Jays need some fucking starting pitching. There isn’t anyone in the minors waiting in the wings to eat some innings.

        Anibal Sanchez would be a good target but will be costly. The Tigers have an inside edge on him and would be motivated to sign him. Very doubtful that Sanchez becomes a Jay.

        E. Jackson is no longer represented by Boras. He’s put together a nice season and could fetch a nice deal. But are the Jays are good fit for him? Doubtful.

        The Jays are seeing red flags with Marcum and McCarthy, given their health status. Perhaps one-year deals with options, but again, they are FA’s and can sign wherever they fucking want. I wouldn’t bet on it.

        I think AA needs to make trades for some young, controllable guys with upside. The Reds might be willing to part with Homer Bailey. Much like our beloved Snider, he has fallen out of favour with the Reds FO and could be had. Cleveland is rebuilding and needs a RH power hitting corner outfielder. A guy like Sierra with some added pieces could fetch Masterson.

        Best and most likely avenue for added pitching will likely be through the trade route. Another long hot stove season awaits us.

  79. I did this all the other day here it is again. I updated Mathis to the bench instead of d’Arnaud for now. If you want to get brave and read that Lind is on his way out based on what AA said you can subtract $4.5 million from the 2013 totals which is difference between Lind and d’Arnaud’s salary. I have left Lind on the roster for now. I did not include figures for guys like Laffey or Cecil who will likely be in AAA or somewhere else.

    Here is the spreadsheet which I based my numbers on.
    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tlGuOwsSqqOBS4H6hAg-Q_Q&output=html

    Looking at the roster for 2013 and making some assumptions for the 2 arbitration eligible players in Rasmus ($3.5 million) and Happ ($2.5 million) the Jays payroll for 20 spots is already at $73.8 million. Players with little service time like Lawrie I’ve given slight raises to 500k which should be close the minimum next year. The 20 spots on the roster include d’Arnaud as backup catcher and Hechavarria at 2nd. That leaves 5 roster spots – 2 starters, 1 left fielder and 2 bench players. One bench player would be your utility infielder. The other would possibly be a 5th outfielder or right handed platoon mate for Lind at DH.

    The 20 roster spots would be

    Outfield: Bautista, Rasmus, ????? (3)
    Infield: EE, Hechavarria, Esocbar, Lawrie, JPA (5)
    DH: Lind (1)
    SP: Morrow, ?????, Romero, ?????, Alvarez (5)
    RP: Janssen, Santos, Lincoln, Oliver, Loup, Delabar, Happ (7)
    Bench: Davis, Mathis, ?????. ????? (4)

    The $73.8 million does not include money for guys like McGowan or other injured players. As you can see you’re already approaching 2012′s payroll levels with 5 spots still to fill.

    In 2012 the Jays spent roughly $95.43 million on MLB payroll ($83.7), amateur ($8.8) and international spending ($2.9). Going forward the Jays will get roughly $6.0 million to spend in the 2013 amateur draft plus another $3.0 million in international spending. Assuming they max out their draft pick money again that puts them at $82.8 million with 5 roster spots to fill.

    Now for the real question. Just how much is Rogers going to increase the payroll by in 2013? In a previous post I figured they could fill 2 of the starter spots (1 via trade, 1 free agent) and one in the outfield for roughly $30 million. That would leave just the 2 bench players. One could be someone like Sierra and the other would likely come from outside the organization to be your utility guy. Call that another $2-3 million in total if the utility guy is actually someone half decent.

    In total you’d be looking at $106 million of MLB payroll and $115 million of total player spending before accounting for injured players of which there is a few in McGowan, Litsch, Drabek, Hutchison and Perez. I estimate these guys would be owed roughly $5 million in total.

    The $111 million figure (if you include the injured) would put the Jays in roughly 10th spot for 2012 payroll totals but possibly lower for 2013 totals. You would have to go back to 2001 to find the Jays up that high again.

    Of course there’s no guarantee that the Jays will spend nearly that much in 2013. That would be a record amount when you factor in all player spending though I’m not sure if you adjusted amounts for inflation if that would remain the case. One last thing you should remember is that under the CBA certain teams no longer qualify for revenue sharing. According to Jayson Stark at ESPN the Jays were beneficiaries of revenue sharing to the tune of roughly $35 million as late as 2009. If that is in fact true, then under the new CBA they already lost $9 million of that in 2012 and are supposed to lose another $9 million for a total of $18 million this year. For those that no longer qualified for revenue sharing the amount was to be phased out by 25% per year. The next question is does the massive gains in TV ratings and YTD gain of 26.3% in gate attendance overcome the lost revenue sharing money? Or does it matter? Many believe (MLB for one) that Rogers makes much more money off the Jays than advertised. Is there enough revenue already in place that an increase in expenses along with a loss of some existing revenues won’t make a difference to Rogers management? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  80. Wow Zaun is on Baseball Central saying that Mathis got screwed with this contract and that he’s going to put up this season’s numbers MINIMUM. As if this isn’t a career year for him already. And he still sucks offensively. He’s saying he can hit 25 home runs and is the best catcher in their organization. How is this joke a paid baseball analyst.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind the deal. But to imply (or in Zaun’s case explicitly state) that this is somehow a bad deal FOR THE PLAYER is laughable.

    What a fucking clown.

    • It’s possible it could be a bad deal for Mathis, but Zaun’s reasoning for it to be so is utterly ridiculous. It’s certainly possible that veteran backup defensive catchers are valued by the market at $1.5 million per year as early as this offseason and before the end of the contract.

      Saying that Gomes should be the 3rd catcher on the team next year, not D’Arnaud is incredible.

      • Well its probably true that D’Arnaud shouldn’t be the third catcher on the MLB roster next year, but not at all for the reasons Zaun says. I think he’s just jealous of catchers who are better than him…

      • It’s true that market value may end up being 1.5 million, but the idea is to take less money for a longer guaranteed term. I guess Zaun has a point that by the option year it may be a better deal for the team than player, but it’s his assertions about Mathis’ offensive potential that gobsmacked me.

        Not to mention his constant shitting on D’Arnaud, which completely contradicts the reports of oh… pretty much all of the experts. I swear the dude crushes on JPA harder than any woman in the city, and that’s saying something…

  81. Now he’s saying that Yan Gomes would be more valuable than Travis D’arnaud next year, and D’arnaud should be traded because he’ll just be JPA 2.0…

  82. This makes good sense. Mathis is what he is, which is a remarkably unspectacular defense-first catcher. I’d assume that this is more about locking up this position during the season as opposed to having to expend an iota of energy on it in an offseason that presents so much opportunity for trades, FA signings, etc. He’s done a decent job, so why not get it done now and worry about bigger things when the time comes.

  83. This will all make sense in April, when Felix Hernandez is the opening day starter and the M’s have a nice young power hitting catcher to build their offence around. Probably will cost Sanchez, and another but thats whats going to happen.
    d’Arnaud has nothing to prove in the minors, and Arencibia is still young enough to have upside (even though i dont think he does). The time has come!!
    This team is being built around Latin players and I have no problem with that at all
    Bautista
    Encarnacion
    Escobar
    Alvarez
    Romero(sorta)
    and then Felix Hernadez to cap it off.

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