Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of, with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun tells us of a silent plea from ex-Jays first base coach, and current manager of the GCL Jays, Omar Malave, over his 17 month old granddaughter who needs a life-saving operation, and the race to raise funds to help her.

John Lott of the National Post writes about how Ricky Romero was upset at getting the hook in last night’s loss to Chicago. Um… suck it the fuck up, Romero.

At Sportsnet, Shi Davidi wonders if Carlos Villanueva will be the next Jays player to receive an extension. “My main thing is I really want to be here if the Blue Jays want me to be here,” the player says. Of course, he also says, “the first thing right now is I’d want to be viewed as a starter, but you never know, if a team is going to give me a two- or three-year contract and told me (being a swingman) is a possibility that might happen, then it’s OK, but you’re paying me as a starter.”

In a notebook post at BlueJays.com, Gregor Chisholm gives us news of good progress for Jason Frasor, the shutting back down of Adam Lind, an update on Colby Rasmus, and an indication of the plans for Yorvit Torrealba, once he joins the club.

At Minor League Ball, John Sickels evidently hasn’t changed his tune on Kevin Comer as much as Keith Law (who we’ll hear from again below).

Brendan Kennedy of the Toronto Star updates us on even more guys recovering from injury, including Brandon Morrow, who threw 4.2 scoreless innings in a rehab start last night for New Hampshire.

Elsewhere at the Star, Mark Zwolinski checks in with Joe Carter and Mitch Williams, both of whom were in town this week for Carter’s celebrity charity golf tournament.

The Globe and Mail hits the streets of Montreal and finds more Expos caps now than in the last days of that sad, doomed franchise.

Lastly, Keith Law chatted with readers this afternoon at ESPN.com, and offered these Jays-related tidbits (and maybe more– the chat’s still going as I publish this):

Erich (CT)
Why in the world would the Jays send Kevin Comer to the Astros as the PTBNL? Hes the best pitcher out of the entire package, what an awful, awful trade.
Klaw
Because his velocity backed up this year to the mid- to upper 80s. Unfortunately he’s not the pitcher we thought he was (myself included) a year ago.

Andy (St. Louis)
Thoughts on Travis Snider in Pittsburgh? Think he can be a .276 hitter with 20+ homeruns next season?
Klaw
No, more of a .275 hitter.

(Serious answer: Too much trouble making contact to see him coming close to that.)

Matt (NJ)
what do you think of Daniel Norris?
Klaw
Good arm, trouble repeating the delivery, more of a long-term project with upside – the opposite end of the spectrum from a guy like Berrios.

Comments (68)

  1. So a long-term project and a throw-in in a trade for spare parts. Nice haul with that draft class AA.

    • Good lord.

      • Yeah, how dare AA try and improve the current team and our short-term future. I was totally hoping 2017 was gonna be our year!

        And giving up prospects who aren’t even in our top ten! I mean damn it AA., don’t you know we won’t be able to replace low-level prospects until next year, you know, when they hold the ANNUAL draft again.

        ..stupid AA.

      • I haven’t heard Drunk Jays apologists in a while…

        We may not always see eye to eye Stoeten, but I commend you with the level of bullshit you have taken this season due to the re-energized fanbase.

      • Wait, so now it’s wrong to criticize AA and his staff for drafting busts like Comer (or is he not a bust and they just made a fucking retarded trade?) when he’s spent his entire reign as GM selling the fact that they were gonna do a better job of scouting than everyone else? OK.

        • I think the point is that if you’re going to get worked up about every draft pick that doesn’t pan out, you’ll be lucky if you live in Canada cause you’re going to give yourself a series of heart attacks.

        • Are you for real, wamco? You understand what the percentage of prospects who actually contribute at the MLB level is, yes?

          • Of course. I also understand that a guy you draft in the top 60 and give a 1.6M signing bonus to ain’t the same as a 10th round lottery ticket. How isn’t it a big deal that they missed so badly that the kid’s value had all but disappeared in less than a year? We’re not even talking about reaching the bigs, we’re talking about falling apart in his first full year in the pros. Sorry if I expect better than that after all the money/resources they”ve supposedly put into scouting.

          • Please, go look at some old draft classes and the bonuses paid to guys early on who flamed out fast. It happens. A lot. Get over it.

          • So now people are complaining that they’re spending too much money?

          • Who gives a shit about past draft classes? I’m talking about Anthopolous’ stint, nothing else. We sat for 3 years being fed lines about their reinvigorated dedication to scouting and player development, so where are the results? What, the rankings of the same scribes who praised the Comer pick? Until there’s some tangible evidence that they’re hitting at a higher rate than everyone else then it was all bullshit. (And yes, I’m aware that it’s still early to judge most of the picks under AA, but the early returns ain’t exactly positive)

          • wamco, I suggested you look at previous draft years because you very obviously do not understand that just about every pick made is a bust by your ludicrous requirements. The standard you’re trying to hold the club to is laughably ridiculous. So, again, look at some history before wasting more effort with this pointless bitching.

  2. Yes, because the Jays didn’t take anyone else in that draft class. How about the two guys the Jays still have who were picked ahead of Comer?

    Oh and, you could argue that the Jays did well with this draft. How often do draftees make the big leagues? Well, AA’s acquired 3 major leaguers with pieces from this draft. Most teams won’t get 3 major leaguers from this draft period.

    • THANK YOU.

      • Bit-part major leaguers that would have little business on a division-winner-calibre-team, though, to a degree.

        Anyway, the trade is meaningless in the grand scheme, I just don’t want AA to get too eager and rush toward a mirage.

        This trade isn’t that, but it’s also not exactly patience.

        Lastly, heeeeeooooooo, can Farrell stop with treating 1 run deficits and tie games like experience-garnerers for relievers that piss me off?

        • Really because the Yanks are rolling out Nix, Ibanez, Garcia, McGehee, Chavez. Guys who I would consider bit parts.

          I agree with the Farrell comment though. You have Oliver and Loup sitting in the pen and a lefty up 1st and 3rd (Dunn, Pierzynski). Why in the world is Lincoln put in the game? That is why the pen has lefty relievers no?

    • Well said.

    • So if a supp. pick is worth shitballers like Happ/Carpenter and a couple months of Lyon then maybe AA’s brilliant strategy to horde draft picks was kinda, well, complete bullshit?

      • Supp picks just aren’t worth very much. This is not something new.

        How much did we give Colorado for Miguel Olivo (who garnered us a Supp pick when we declined his $500K option)?

      • No, because the vast majority of prospects flame out and lose their value, and the object of hoarding them was to play the percentages and give themselves a better opportunity to collect ones who don’t. That doesn’t mean lots of guys aren’t still going to flame out, and if they’re shipped out when the club feels their value is about to crater, it’s not nearly as big a problem as you so desperately want to believe.

  3. in fairness to romero, he completely out matched dunn every at bat yesterday..

    he should have stayed in to face him

  4. There sure are a lot more people commenting on blog message boards with encyclopedic insider scouting knowledge of the development of obscure teenage single-A pitching prospects than I thought there were!

    That, or there’s a bunch of people who wouldn’t recognize Kevin Comer if they tripped over him – let alone know anything about his health status, or his performance this year, or how he fits into the team’s plans – just looking for something to be furious about. At least they’re taking their anger out on blogs and not on their loved ones, I guess.

    • Something tells me that their loved ones probably take even more than that wish they dish out to the blogs.

  5. I’ll repost this here since this is buried beneath a large amount of drunkenness in the other post.

    I’d say I’m surprised at the stupidity of commenters on this blog; but when you have a site named ‘Drunk Jays Fans’ and a whole bunch of extra buzz heading into the season I guess people shifted from posting on TSN & Sportsnet to here.

    SIMMER DOWN.

    Just because Baseball America puts out two mega-lists a year doesn’t mean a prospect’s value isn’t constantly changing. It’s a continuum.

    In the offseason, I remember myself and Fullmer talking about what the Jays should consider giving up for Gavin Floyd. I suggested I’d have no issue with McGuire & Drabek to which Fullmer agreed since he, like me, isn’t obsessed by prospect porn. Of course, people are all “why not just package one more guy and get King Felix?”

    While Floyd isn’t having a spectacular year, is there anyone who wouldn’t trade those two minor league phenoms for a proven mid-rotation starter right now?

    Name me one prospect that AA has given up that he should have regretting moving. Wallace? Stewart? Molina? And those guys were somewhat well regarded.

    EVERY team drafts players who have more value when they were drafted than one year later. These comments would be less ridiculous if you guys weren’t just looking at AA in a vacuum.

    Think of it another way; if AA simply traded one of the players he acquired in Brandon Lyon, you don’t think he could get a single prospect better than any he gave up? I’m quite confident he can.

    • Bravo fine sir! +1000000

      • Agreed. It is very hard to judge these prospects that we don’t get to see pitch.

        I could see AA’s scouts telling him that Comer ‘s velocity is down so better trade him.

        He did that with Wallace.

        No worries.

        However, AA has made a big bet with Rogers on spending more on scouting * developing prospects so that the Jays can use them or trade them for MLB players.

    • Remember b4 KC moved greinke to Milwaukee they wanted Drabek and Snyder from us-we turned it down. I’d like a mulligan on that plwase

  6. So, about reliever fungibility. I think it’s overblown. Basically, you can build a pen through the farm, FA, trades or waivers. Through the farm is ideal, in terms of cost and control, but it clearly wasn’t an option for the Jays at this point in time. FA and trade acquisitions both provide an element of control, and greater predictability year to year – a plus when trying to contend IMO, but free agent relievers have decreased in value with lack in comp picks with this CBA. You can get lucky on the waiver wire, but also end up with shit, perhaps not a process you want to be in the middle of when trying to contend.

    Anyhow, i took time to look at how the top bullpens this year by fWAR acquired their talent. For 31 players (top 5 per team) across the Royals, Rays, Yankees, Orioles, Reds & Braves it breaks down like this:

    10 draft, 3 international FA = 13 from the farm
    7 FA
    5 Waivers
    6 trade

    None of those ‘pens were built in a single season, or even a couple. Most have draft picks going back 7 or 8 years.

    In conclusion, a solid bullpen is nice to have, and seems important to being a good team. Unless you have internal options, you have to suffer through the waiver shit flinging, or pony up for free agents or trades. The cost in trades is higher than we’d like – especially when someone like Fernando Rodney become %1000 better than he’s ever been on a cheap free agent deal – but the Jays are one of the most talent rich teams in the league, and it makes sense to spend that improving the major league team.

    QED.

    • Go back a couple years and see how many teams consistently have a top bullpen. Here’s a hint; very few do and those are usually anchored by one great RP (Rivera, Kimbrel, Chapman) which we still don’t have

      • To expand on this.
        In the past 5 years 13 teams have been in the top 5 of bullpen era. 4 teams have been in the top 5 3 times (Oak, TB, ATL, SF) SF and ATL are really the only consistent bullpens. ATL has been 5, 1 and 3 in past 3 years. SF was 2nd 3 years in a row (17 this year though).

        TB for example was 4, 16, 4, 17, 5 in the past 5 years

        • Cool. I wonder how the variance in bullpen performance changes relative to turnover. ie, Does SF’s three year run of the 2nd best ‘pen reflect stability, or did the mix in a bunch of new pieces each year and keep it together?

      • Sergio Santos is great…. in MLB 2k12

  7. The massive trade that gets more boring each time you read about it.

  8. “Nice haul with that draft class AA.”

    Let’s see – in the almost 50 years of the amateur draft , probably the greatest ever draft was the 1968 Dodger draft. In three phases of the draft they took about 90 players and an amazing 15 players played in the majors.

    That means the greatest draft of all-time had a 16.7% success rate of drafting major league talent.

    AA does suck because it looks like a couple of his picks failed since no other GM has missed on picks before

  9. having read the Lott article, including the misleading headline, i don’t see Romero complaining so much as saying what one would expect from any pitcher: don’t take me out of the game. it would be worse if he voiced agreement with the manager. no controversy in this one, Mr Lott – leave that to the tools like Blair to stir up.

  10. I wonder if Anthopoulous reads this site.

  11. Best of luck to Omar and his family. Man, is that sad. I hope Rogers and the Jays step in and help, especially for a guy who has been in the organization for so long.

    • The Jays are paying for the surgery, but the family still needs a more help. Amazingly, from Bob Elliott’s article today and then Wilner on JaysTalk they are now up to $17,000 of the $20,000 needed. Great stuff Toronto. This means far more than any Jays wins.

  12. Perhaps some perspective for the overall methods.Make of it what you will.I paraphrase.

    Asked why the Yanks seem to be competitive every year, an executive answered,”because they can afford to write off their mistakes “.
    When the Jays can afford to write off millions to Ryan,pay 6 million to Philly in the Halladay trade,write off 5 milllion with Teahen,etc. It’s no wonder they can write off 3 million in “bad” bonuses paid to draft picks.This is a good thing. They aren’t worried that the player drafted might not turn out as expected and write it off. Instead of hoping the players you drafted will work out and spending years trying to justify the bonuses paid,AA has the ability, in his judgement to “write it off” and move on without reprocussions from above.No,”you drafted him,you’re stuck with him” mentality.No fear in wondering if a player doesn’t work out, whether he was acquired by trade or draft or FA, he can get rid of him,regardless of cost and get busy building a contender.
    When the Yanks and Sox have drafted and traded for duds,they get rid of them and move on.The Jays need that same abilty and it seems they are doing just that.If it ain’t working get rid of it and move on.
    And yes, some of those that move on will excel but so will their replacements who are with the Jays.

    • +1

      This same philosophy should be applied to Adam Lind. His contract is already a sunk cost. Whether it means a platoon or outright release, 2009 seems like a century ago.

      And, quite frankly, depending on how much the Jays have to spend, if David Cooper can go back to walking around 10% of the time, which he always did in the minors, maybe he’s the cheap part-time DH in 2013.

      • You gotta think that AA has the backing of Beeston and above.

        Otherwise the conversation woulda gone different.

        AA to Beeston and Rogers.
        We.re gonna trade a guy we just paid a 1.8 mil bonus to,We think he ain’t what we thought he’d be..

        Beest: Umm, okay whatever it takes to get us competitive.

        That’s what I’d thought you’d say.

  13. ok this is what happened… Rogers has increased the team budget and AA is dealing his prospects away as they’re no good to him anymore! true story…

  14. We kind of got back what we traded for Rasmus by trading shitbags. So, we got Rasmus for shitbags and a period of a worse bullpen.

    Boo Hoo

  15. I know it’s ridiculous to think that this trade should result in calls for AA’s head, especially since it’s a whole lot of nothing going both ways, and AA has a track record of larceny.

    But I can’t help but think there’s a future mid-rotation starter somewhere in the pile of prospects that went out.

    I know there wasn’t room on the 40-man for all of them, but I still wonder if AA will live to regret this trade. It’s an understandable trade, I guess, but unless Happ somehow rediscovers his Phillies form I don’t think this trade will age well.

    • There’s a better chance of Happ becoming a mid-rotation starter than the 3 lottery tickets.

      Left-handers’ careers can take time. He’s increased velocity & Ks while lowering the walks. If he can have a normal HR rate (big if) he could be something useful.

      Plus, as a guy with arbitration years left, he has 2 more inherent “club” options remaining which we know AA values.

  16. I have to say that even though the trade seems fine to me – I’ve never seen those prospects play day in and out, and neither have any of the idiots complaining – it does piss me off that I had to watch those TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE bullpens just for supplemental draft picks that everyone knew didn’t have a good chance of panning out. I mean, I’m fine with gaming the system a little bit (Miguel Olivo, anyone?) but those bullpens were so goddamn bad, and purposelly built with no real regard to their actual ability on the grounds that this was some great 2% ‘market inefficiency’ Harvard Business crap. Which, to be honest, it probably was for a non-competing team that didn’t much care about protecting leads in mid-July to finish with 83 instead of 81 wins.

    I don’t even really have a point. I just hated watching the 2010-2011 bullpens so fucking much. John Rauch can go to hell.

    • Let it out man, it’s OK, you’re safe. Rauch can’t hurt you any more.

    • I think the Miguel Olivo deals highlights what a Supp pick is actually worth in dollars….and that is not very much.

  17. Every time I read about the 10 player trade, I get the feeling that AA traded away all of his young pitching talent…

    • According to Jim Callis at BA, Comer was the only one in the top 10 pitchers, at #10, and it seems like his value could be dropping.

  18. hey Joe Average Jays Fan, rather than getting mad at AA for trading prospects who have a good chance of not making it to the Bigs, maybe you should get mad about AA signing the wrong Cuban?

    http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2012/08/16/flip-flop-fly-ball-chapmania/

  19. JROCK for your info AA already spoke out and said not signing Chapman was a mistake that he wishes he could do over and that was before this season

    • Yeah, I recall that now.

      • That still was a ton of money going to a guy who had never played in the majors.

        Although I doubt he would be a reliever in Toronto. Would probably be the #1 int he rotation right now.

        Screw Cinncy for having money now, signing Ardolis, Votto, Phillips and trading for Latos. Screwing up the Jays plans this offseason.

    • So if people are going to criticize AA, they should criticize him for his actual mistakes, not ones that are highly debatable.

      • EE is out of the lineup with a shoulder and wrist injury after the tumble last night. Coaching must improve as you put your mvp out in left field when 1st base or dh is the place for EE to play. I ask the question why are you jerking your best players around????

        • Yeah I thought it was a dumb move and who knows how bad this could end up being. Seriously just left him play 1B and some DH.

  20. Brandon Lyon came over in the 10 player debacle everyone’s concerned about. I thought the Jays had an interest in getting him back from before his Houston contract. He’s having a nice time here (even with SSS). If they can re-sign him, the trade was worth it.

    David Carpenter fills a need in AAA and may yet be effective up here.

    J.A. Happ (LHP) is an asset, he can Start. He ran out of gas in his last start otherwise it was a good first 5.0 IP, the last 0.2 IP – not so much. To early to tell with him.

    And those prospects (and absorbing $3.0 MM in 2 unwanted pieces) are going to be of value WHEN?

    As for the Snider trade:

    Brad Lincoln (SSS) is still a work in progress, until he learns to pitch in the A.L. East. He fills a need at this time. He is of value, right now. His 1st 4 games, 6.0 IP were good, while his last 2 games, 3.0 IP stunk.

    As for the Thames trade:

    Steve Delabar looks (SSS) very good, 8 games, 8.2 IP. With 1 stinker 1.0 IP, 4 H, 1 HR, 3 ER. But 7.2 IP, 1 H, 3 BB, 14 K. This looks vey good to me.

    Both the last two trades also fill needs. We were still in contention at those times, until Lind’s back injury, Arencibia’s broken bone, Lawrie’s strained oblique as well as other absences ripped the heart of the offense out of the team (4 wins, 14 losses say it all).

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *