Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_15_object_69be6f0f58698dc437fd681ecbdd920c' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Warning: apc_store(): Potential cache slam averted for key 'w3tc_blogs.thescore.com_15_object_69be6f0f58698dc437fd681ecbdd920c' in /opt/blogs/wp-content/plugins/w3-total-cache/lib/W3/Cache/Apc.php on line 41 Early-Afternoon Snack: Tuesday, September 4th | Drunk Jays Fans | Blogs | theScore.com

Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of, with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Hope everybody had a great long weekend, now it’s back to business as usual, which for us Jays fans in September means… ugh. Here are today’s links…

At FanGraphs, Jack Moore likes what he sees in Carlos Villanueva, and thinks that he can help the Jays going forward (i.e. they should keep him). Elsewhere, David Laurila chats with work-in-progress Anthony Gose.

Zack Links of MLB Trade Rumours and making delicious cured meats watches the latest video from Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports so you don’t have to. In it Dr. Rosen Rosen suggests that the time might be right for David Ortiz to test the free agent waters this winter, as the Jays and Yankees might be interested in going multi-year– something the Red Sox have been reluctant to do. File this one under: no shit. Start recruiting your pal already, Jose!

Five gems from Jon Lott of the National Post, who looks at the throng of Expos fans who descended on the Rogers Centre this weenked, talks to bullpen catcher Alex Andreopoulos, looks at the second guessing of Omar Vizquel’s game-losing slide over the weekend, how Brandon Lyon and Jeff Mathis worked a plan to beat the Yankees last week, and a talk with Ricky Romero, who says, “It’s tough to hear boos from your own fans.” Also file this one under: no shit. Ingrates.

Lott also tweets some award announcements for the Las Vegas 51s, where the team MVP was Adeiny Hechavarria, and the best was Jesse Chavez. The fans’ choice for best 51, known in the desert as the Mayor’s Award, also went to Hech.

Speaking of the Expos fans, Richard Griffin gets wistful– as he damn well should– about the franchise he once worked for in his latest bullpen piece at the Toronto Star.

In a trio of notebook posts at BlueJays.com, Gregor Chisholm updates us on JP Arencibia’s timetable, the returns of Brett Cecil and Jason Frasor, Brett Lawrie’s progress, Kelly Johnson’s ending slump, Sam Fuld’s diagnosis for Jose Bautista, the steady recovery of Travis d’Arnaud, and John Farrell’s suggestion that there isn’t one specific thing the organization is doing that has led to so many young pitchers’ arms getting shredded, but that having guys make the jump to the big leagues too quickly may cause young guys to overthrow *COUGH* Drew Hutchison *COUGH*, which leads to higher injury rates. Hmmm.

To that topic, Shi Davidi writes for Sportsnet that the Jays can relate to the Nationals’ problems with innings limits for Stephen Strasburg, and looks at their evolving views on how to handle young arms so that this exact damn thing doesn’t happen.

Dirk Hayhurst talks about the success of Moises Sierra so far, and wonders how quickly he’ll be able to adjust back, once the league begins adjusting to him.

Jays Journal is all for giving Sierra the starting job in 2013, if that’s what it takes so save resources that can be used to address the pitching rotation.

Elsewhere at Jays Journal, they bring their final prospect hot sheet of the minor league season, highlighting good recent stretches from, among others, Nose Snygen, and Jake Marisnick– who finally got hot at the end of a dismal season.

Elsewhere still we’re told that Alex Anthopoulos was in Vancouver for a two-day scouting trip last weekend, and then given an update on how the Canadians are faring.

Bluebird Banter takes a look at how Jays pitchers have fared in August. Um… Henderson Alvarez, everybody!

Mop Up Duty takes a look into their crystal ball and tries to see what the 2013 bullpen is going to look like.

At the Tao of Stieb, the Org Guy does the same, liking the fact that the Jays already have internal options for the bullpen, allowing them to focus in the winter on other areas of need.

The Blue Jay Hunter looks at changes in Adam Lind’s stance over the year, wondering if they Jays have fixed him, suggesting that now fielding may be too distracting for the poor young millionaire, and that maybe the Jays shouldn’t be giving up on him just yet. Um… sure they should. And I’m not sure if the differences in the stances we’re seeing aren’t just products of the angle of the shot and point during the pitcher’s motion at which the picture was taken. But hey, judge for yourself.

At the Toronto Sun, Bob Elliott adds some extra names to those he thanked six weeks ago, when accepting the Spink award at the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

Ron Kantowski of the Las Vegas Review-Journal indulges in the common speculation and tells 51s fans what to expect should the Mets become affiliated with the club, with the Jays shuffling off to Buffalo.

Buster Olney of ESPN.com (Insider Olney) talks about the rumblings surrounding possibly-deteriorating Yankee ace, CC Sabathia.

John Sickels examines Jays prospect Chad Jenkins at Minor League Ball, and the conclusion is of exactly of the variety you’d expect from this dismal fucking year.

Elsewhere at Minor League Ball, Sickels asks readers to weigh in on the most disappointing non-injured prospect of the year, throwing out some Jays-related possibilities: Deck McGuire, Jake Marisnick and Nestor Molina.

Craziness! Kevin Goldstein says goodbye to the internet, as he’s been hired away from us, and from Baseball Prospectus, by the Houston Astros.

Lastly, just a reminder, considering the insufferable, idiot-empowering success of the team the Jays are currently entangled in a series with, here are the standings from this date in 2010, and in 2011. Please take extra special note the two game lead in the NL West for the playoff-missing ’10 Padres, and the eight game wild card cushion for the ’11 Red Sox.

Comments (173)

  1. I know Romero doesn’t like the fans booing. But what he should consider is that these people (especially in the lower bowl) have paid $50-$70 for a ticket, $20 for parking, and $20 for a hot dog and beer, and then they get to see Romero give up 8 runs in 2 innings. These people might only be able to afford to go to one or two games a year.

    Not that I agree with it, but it’s within your right to boo if you want to.

    • Because that’s the outcome he was really trying for, right? Fuck him!

      [Edit: OK, you said you didn't agree with it, so this is not so much directed at you.]

      • Its stupid to boo. It also stupid to whine about the booing when all you have to do is pitch better.

        • Yeah, how dare that stupid fuck not just realize he should pitch better! DUH, Ricky! The answer was here all along!

          • I expected such a reply. My point has esaped you (not surprisingly) .

            So let me provide a more concrete statement for you to digest.

            Mr. Romero’s performance has been awful, of that there can be no argument. When someone like Mr. Romero (highly paid professional athlete, paid as such due to his supposed ability) struggles as mightily and consistently as he has, it does not do him any favors when he complains about beeing booed.

            It comes off as whiny, pissy, bitch ass behavior from someone who should actually shut the fuck up and worry about improving his game (which im sure he has been doing…except for the shutting up part).

            When you preform as poorly as him, you should not be complaining about people complaining.

        • “Pitch better? WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF THAT???”

        • “It comes off as whiny, pissy, bitch ass behavior from someone who should actually shut the fuck up and worry about improving his game ”

          All he said was “it’s tough to hear your own fans boo”. How is that whiny? All he’s doing is stating a fact. He wasn’t even complaining.

      • Yeah, I wouldn’t do it. I’m just saying from the perspective of the guy who makes $30,000 a year, and spent $200 to take his family to the game, and then it’s over after 2 innings.

      • Baseball players don’t get paid millions of dollars to try their best. They are paid to get results. The lack of results, and not the lack of effort, is why Romero was booed.

        • Spoken like a true idiot, kix.

          • Have you officially become a Rogers employee yet? Or do you just constantly suck the balls of your master no matter what?

            • Read my next post, friend.

              Re-read the reports about the Score sale too, while you’re at it, and maybe you’ll sound less fucking hopeless next time you try to burn me about it.

          • I guess you were sucking off Rogers before the deal so it shouldn`t really make any difference.

      • I also think booing your own player is idiotic, unless you honestly believe he doesn’t care. Romero obviously cares.

        In (some) defence of the booers though, I wonder though how many are booing the outcome more than the player? I was at the home opener and Santos blew it and people were boo’ing but most of them didn’t even know who Santos was. I think they were just boo’ing at the baseball gods.

        • I think that’s exactly what they are booing.

        • I think that’s what they’re mostly booing, too. Or what they think believe booing, at least.

          • fans boo because they are frustrated…

            i fail to understand why other fans get so high and mighty about it being ‘stupid’…

            i don’t expect athletes to like it… but the truth is that it comes with the territory… and if it bothers you that much maybe you should look for another line of work.

            • Yes, you do fail to understand why it’s stupid, ryan. At least you’re self aware enough for that.

          • At least Romero is not play ‘keeper for Columbia’s national footy team. That there is a precarious position.

          • *keeper

          • Third time’s a charm – *playing. F**k my all thumbs typing today.

      • I heard the boos, but they weren’t really THAT bad… there was actually a small smattering of sypathetic applause as Ricky walked off after the initial boos died out…
        Rickey has done nothing but work his ass off to try to figure this out – of that I have no doubt. If the Jays were in the race he wouldn’t be pitching but they’re not. So he is. Don’t buy tickets for Romero starts if you’re that concerned. Maybe Alvarez will be throwing instead.

    • so do you feel better after you boo?

      do you get money back after you boo?

      if you boo your own team you’re just a dickwad and there is a reason you only can afford to go to 2 games a year.

      • I personally do not boo anyone. It is boorhish behavior and makes one appear as a miscreant. I however undertand the behavior and it is at times warranted from those so inclined.

        I do not agree with booing amateur atheletes, even at the major division I level, they are still amateurs, however a major leaguer should not really be effected by such behavior.

        It is quite laughable

      • stoeten, i really don’t understand getting so judgemental about something that doesn’t harm anyone. if you don’t want to boo… don’t.

        the holier than thou shit strikes me as a pathetic reach at being viewed as thoughtful…

        • he needs to realize he doesn`t have this job because he knows everything about baseball. he got lucky. there are 1000 people who could do as good, or better a job.

          • What does calling you an idiot have to do with knowing anything about baseball? I don’t have to know the first thing about baseball to call you an idiot.

          • it`s a comment on your general arrogant asshole demeanor. Whatever.. I`ve had enough of this shit and i`m sure you have too.

        • Hey you know this is a blog where we talk about baseball and the Jays right? Talking about our (supposed) ace being boo’ed is fairly relevant – when mixed in with 100 other tidbits.

          What else should we talk about right now?

        • I talk about it and get judgmental about it because it’s fucking uncomfortable to be in a sea of people without the least bit of sympathy for anyone but themselves, and it’s odd to me that so many people don’t even see the value in asking what the fuck is up with that.

          • Holy fuck. Ricky Romero does not need our sympathy. Holy fucking shit. Are you insane?

          • yeah – and maybe pro sports fans should show sympathy for the other team and not cheer when the home team scores a run…

            it is not rogerian therapy it professional sports for chrissakes…

        • Actually, it does harm someone. The person who is being booed. Is it so hard to remember that under it all there are human beings?

          • are you serious? if someone can’t handle a critical response to their performance then they shouldn’t be engaged in competition. it comes with the territory.

            i mean, dirk hayhurst gets defended around these parts when he is critical of ricky’s performance… but the fans get pissed on for not being sympathetic? it is f’n absurd.

  2. I know it’s a common complaint on here, the Jays and their lack of interesting promos, but Wouldn’t it be sweet for the rest of the year they did super cheap tix for Romero’s starts? Try and fill the park and show some support. Or do you think there would be too many negative people for that?

    • I honestly think that would be a horrible idea. Not only because the swarm of idiots would boo him, but what kind of a message does that send to Romero?

      “Dude, you’re pitching so poorly we’re gonna drop prices so people will actually show up to your games.”

    • Yeah, I think it could easily backfire, unfortunately, and not really of their MO to do such things. I’d be all for seeing every premium game reduced to the regular rate for the rest of the year, but I don’t know how they do that without pissing off people who’ve already purchased tickets, or by creating a shit-tonne of work for themselves in figuring a way to refund the difference.

    • Maybe just a cheap hot dog night like they did a few years ago. What was it $2 for a hot dog? I think I had like 5.

    • I guess your heart is in the right place but holy cow would that ever be insulting.

      I agree a good show of support would help Romero. And it might even make this place look like it is worth signing a FA contract here!

    • I say $2 beers while Romero is pitching. That would only be an inning or two so even the most hardcore drinker could only get a couple for that price

  3. I’ma miss Kevin Goldstein

  4. “With 525 minor league games in the bank and nearly a decade more catching in Toronto’s bullpen, Andreopoulos has developed a keen eye for talent. And from his perspective, the Toronto pitcher with the purest skill was oft-injured right-hander Dustin McGowan, hands down.”

    ….bleeeeurgh!

  5. I’m not a scout or anything, but I don’t think I’d be so down on Marisnick. I mean, last year he was in Lansing, and the Jays seem like they pushed him pretty aggressively. He was in Lansing at this point last year. He’s still plenty young for his level, and finished the year pretty strong.

    Perhaps there’s more to that analysis than what I know/have read?

    • Marisnick is a star in the making. It is not uncommon for aggressively promoted players to struggle for even a year or two. The tools are all there. This is not a raw talent in the form of Gose, his skills are already there, its just refinement. With Gose, the requisite hitting skills are not even there, refinement is still a step beyond that.

      • Except that Gose put up considerably better numbers (despite being 4 months younger) than Marisnick at AA. Gose’s AA numbers are comparable to Marisnick’s A+ numbers this year.

        I do think Marisnick will be a stud, but Gose performed better, while being even more rushed at the higher level.

  6. I was right by the way. Brett Wallace is putting up a fine season for the Astros and Anthony Gose has a swing as raw as ever.

    • You’re liking that .370 BABIP (which is sinking from the .434 he padded his numbers with in June) is sustainable? It better be with those kind of BB and K rates, I guess.

    • So the fact that he is 4 years older and plays a much less premium defensive position (poorly at that) does not factor into you assessment? When Wallace was Gose’s age, he had just been promoted to AA. The following season, he was playing in AAA and had a worse wRC+ than Gose does this season, and had still not played a game in the majors yet. Perhaps we should hold the fuck off on deciding the winner of that trade a little while longer there champ.

  7. RIP Up and In :(

  8. We are paying for Lind no matter what we do (no one claimed him earlier right?) so might as well sign Ortiz and let Ortiz and EE do DH/1B and then have Lind as a back up for either of them. Lind is a much better bench bat than… Mathis. Again, we’re paying for him anyway.

    Davis, Lind, Mathis and McCoy is a pretty good bench.

    • You are not suggesting platooning Ortiz with EE at first, right? You were suggesting EE at 1B and Ortiz as the full time DH.

      • Correct – the only similarity between Ortiz and EE would be that Lind could back up either. Ortiz is getting old (and could get injured of course) so you have Lind as backup. Plus Lind really isn’t bad at 1B.

        Once you accept the sunk cost and that he has no trade value, Lind is an awesome bench player. Legit home run threat even when he is sucking. Eventually he will PH a game winning homer.

        • The only way you’d ever sit Ortiz would be against a left-hander, so you’d want a right-handed hitting bench bat for those occasions. Not Lind.

  9. As fans, we celebrate/cheer when the players on our favorite team perform well. Conversely, then, why would one celebrate a terrible performance? If I’m dissatisfied with the performance I see on the field, damn straight I’m going to vocalize that.

    I’ll never understand this whole “don’t boo your own team” thing. It’s another way of saying “because you like the team you are never allowed to criticize them!”, or “you must always cheer no matter what or else you are not a real fan!” (I get that one a lot).

    But wait just a second – cheering for a terrible performance is, by definition, supporting that performance. “Yeah, you’ve been awful for months but I’m still excited about your ability to contribute to this team winning one day anyway! WOOOOOOOO BEER HERE!!!”

    But booing in said circumstance? Heaven forbid we hurt the player’s poor little feelings. If the player doesn’t like hearing it and doesn’t want to hear it, it’s up to him to get himself right and find his game. And you know what happens then? He gets cheered again.

    And no, it is not bandwagoning on the part of the fans when they boo a lousy performance, and then later cheer when the player(s)/team turn it around. It’s goddamned honesty.

    • There a difference between being critical and being a boor.

    • How about silence instead? And reserving the boos for the opposition?

    • One reason perhaps not to do it is that it could have negative effects on future performance. These guys are human after all. It is dumb to boo your own team if you have some vested interest in their future performance.

    • If your wife burns dinner do you boo her or do you pat her on the head and say “thanks anyway honey”?

      Cause you’re right either way, but with option one your next dinner might be frozen pizza that you had to make and with option #2 your next meal might be a steak and BJ.

  10. Trying to wrap my mind around the remote possibility of watching Jose, Edwin, and David Ortiz, hitting in the same line up. Could they put up some numbers? Who would you get to hit in front of them?

    • Lawrie and Rasmus.

      • *girlish squeal of delight*

      • @ Stoeten

        Yup

        • Seems unlikely they bring in Ortiz, then where would Lind play? Also JPA when TDA comes up. I think a Lind/JPA platoon at DH could be pretty solid.

          I’d really like to see them bring in a high OBP guy to lead off.

          • I’m shocked you would ask the question ‘where would Lind play?’ Please don’t tempt this team into considering giving him another shot as starting 1B. He has been given every chance to succeed and has failed. A Lind/Arencibia platoon wouldn’t do half of what Ortiz could. Combined .290 OBP anyone?

  11. Hey are we still using injuries as an excuse? The team is pretty much healthy now except for 3 hitters, jose lawrie and JPA. The rotation is better with happ and cv. The bullpen is better. But we keep losing. The problem is romero and alvarez suck and most of the hitters suck. Last night the 6 regulars wen’t 2 for 21.

    So what the return of 3 hitters is going to make us a contender next year? Next year is going to be a disaster with this lineup.

  12. I would say there are different classes of boos directed at your own team.

    1. Booing out of shape or incompetent mercenaries who will hopefully leave this winter never to return because they can’t resist a chin high fastball (Kelly) or waddle their fat fucking guts from the mound over to first base in time to cover the goddamn bag. Completely justified and a significant part of rooting for a team.

    2. Booing a long-time player because he has shown himself to be chronically indifferent and/or appearing disinterested in running out grounders even though he is in the middle of a slump (Rios). Can be bush league, but also serves to indicate a desire to see that player go elsewhere at any cost.

    3. Booing a long-time player because of a poor result and/or a long-lasting slump. Dick move that hurts both your reputations and that of the team. Especially stupid because it obviously doesn’t help said player improve, which supposedly is the desired goal. See Wells, Vernon.

    4. Booing Lyle Overbay. Because fuck Lyle Overbay.

    • Fans boo because they care and are emotional about “their” team.Mob mentallity plays a part. Romero is the recipient because, at the time, he represents the hopes of the team.The fanatics need to express the disappointment.
      It’s better than apathy and nobody showing up to the games.

  13. Today in common sense: When you sign a $30-million contract, you shouldn’t open your trap and complain you’ve been booed. Especially when you’ve put together a stinker of a season that justifies those boos.

    This is a playoff-starved market and fan frustration is at an all-time high. Fans can only be told ‘wait till next year’ so many times before they look to dish out blame. Its human nature to look for a scapegoat. Romero’s that guy this year (although I’ve said all along Farrell should be the one that fans take a good look at- its apparent the media will continue to overlook his poor managing)

  14. STOTEN for fuck sakes get off the band wagon that Marisnick was horrible this year. Before getting promoted he had a .800+ OPS in his first shot at high A. He took time to adjust to AA. But that is not uncommon or unexplained when you considering he was injured prior to moving to AA. His last 10 games have been on fire.
    If you can give KJ the break, give a kid with a high ceiling a break also.

    • FUCKFACE, I merely pointed out he didn’t have a good season, which, I’m sorry, is true. Nowhere did I say that he’s a failed prospect or that he won’t adjust.

      Also: it’s an .800 OPS on the nose in the FSL, not .800+.

      • You guys gotta do a podcast today…
        I predict it would be “Gold Jerry Gold “…

      • Ooh .800 vs .800+. You were able to put down your colt 45 long enough to put Jake Narisnick into baseball reference. Actually he had a great year in a pitchers league especially if you look compared to others who are in the league and he looks even better when you drill down to those his age.
        For fuck sakes I understand now why Rogers didn’t want the scores digital assets. A bit of research might be nice.

    • Your beef is with John Sickels. Stoeten just posted the link.

  15. Booing isn’t my cup of tea either, but what is the recourse for fans watching the worst pitcher in MLB shit the bed time and again.

    Sure, he seems to be trying but that is little comfort to people as they watch the Toronto Blue Jays shit show play out another string of nothing games.

    What does anyone think they would do? Sit on their hands? Politely applaud the effort? Would any other city act differently?

    Of course they’ll boo, 19 years of failure will do that to a fanbase.

    • 19 years of losing is an excuse to act like children now?

      It would be nice if they maybe groaned like there was some actual sympathy involved, is all.

      • In what fucking universe are all sport fans supposed to thoughtful, mature adults? that doesn’t even happen in politics. you expect that shit in sports?

  16. I read on ESPN that the Met’s will look at trading Wright(no secret) this offseason as his value is as high as it’s been in several years.

    Assuming we wouldn’t have to empty the cupboard, would/could Lawrie move back to second? To me he seems athletic enough to do it.

    • Not happening.

    • David Wright is one of my favourite non-Jay players. Would personally love to have him on the team… would have loved it even more a couple years ago, but still… would be cool.

      Doubt the Mets are really going to move him though.

    • I just don’t think his skillset translates that well to 2B and that’s why jut about every scout had him eventiually moving to the OF.

      As a 3B, his skills (like fearlessness, quick reflexes, being fully dimed etc) play well and are why he’s probably going to win a few gold gloves there. I don’t see him as having lightning quick hands though, or nimble footwork that makes a great 2B. I don’t see him turning DP’s very well. In short, I think he’d go from being a very good 3B to a well below average 2B.

      I like Wright, but maybe he could DH? Or play 1B? Or maybe HE could move to 2B (I don’t know if this is realistic, I don’t know too much about his defense)

  17. whoa whoa…..is going after Ortiz seriously a “no shit” move? is it it really so firmly established that the wisdom in such a move is self-evident? That anyone who doubts said wisdom is clearly an idiot?

    I can’t be the only one who doesn’t really want a 37 y/o slugger in an age (re: non-steroid era) when 37 y/o sluggers just aren’t very good?

    Not to mention, he probably won’t be back this year, so we’d have to way of knowing how/if the injury that’s kept him out for pretty much half a season will affect his hitting? I mean, the guy got the freaking injury by doing a freaking home run trot. It’s not his fault, of course, but that’s what 36 y/o bodies do. Break down.

    And I don’t want to get into this debate too much, but if you had to make a list of likely PED users in baseball right now, I would think Ortiz would have to top that list, given his age, performance, and past history with them.

    We’re not the Yanks, we can’t make $15 million/year mistakes. Ortiz would cost at least $30 million over 2. I can think of much better and less risky ways of spending that money. Besides, with the emergence of EE, we know have two of the games elite sluggers. Two guys who are going to hit you 40+ HR next year if they stay healthy. I’m ok with the power for the team next year. I’d like to get some pitching.

    • Yes, it’s a no shit move.

      • You and I differ greatly in our opinion of “no shit moves” my friend.

        There are options that are a) cheaper b) entail less risk and c) fill a bigger need then signing Ortiz

        • I agree with a, b, and c. Yet, you still go and get David Ortiz if he’s available, when you’re a team with a gaping hole at DH. I mean… no shit.

          • Not if that move prevents us from going out and getting a #2 SP.

            If we can get both, of cours,e let’s do that. But I imagine if it comes down to an ‘either/or’ situation (which I think it would) then I prefer we go with the pitching.

      • It is a no shit move on the field. If it means losing the first round pick to Boston plus outbidding all other teams for him, I think some consideration should be given.

        • At this rate, our first round pick will be protected :P

        • The pick will be protected, and the CBA has changed things, so the Jays would lose their second round pick and Boston would get one in the first supplemental round, and that’s it.

          As for outbidding other clubs, that’s the thing: the DH market is limited. Lots of teams have theirs set, and half of baseball doesn’t play with one. It wouldn’t be as crazy as you think.

    • We picked up a few older hitters in the past that worked out well. Remember Molitor and Winfield.
      I’d take Big Poppi, he’d be great for Bautista and probably be a good influence on Escobar.

      • OK, but you need to look at it on a case by case basis. THe fact that Molitor and Winfield works out has no relevence to if singing Ortiz is a good investment.

        I agree, older players on the downswing of their career are sometimes fantastic moves. But Ortiz is going to be paid like he’s in his prime (his 2013 salary will likely be his highest salary to date). Not to mention picking up neither Winfield nor Molitor used up a big chunk of the clubs resources.

        If we signed Ortiz for 2/$30, that would pretty much be our budget tapped out. I’m not saying I hate Ortiz, and of course I’d love to see him as a Jay…..but only at a price that he would certainly never accept, so it’s a moot point.

        We’re not going to sign Ortiz AND a #2 SP. I prefer we sign the SP.

        • What is “our budget”? Does anyone outside of Beeston, Anthopolous and Rogers know? We almost spent 30/4o mill on Darvish, we spent near the top internationly last year and hit the cap this year. We drafted aggressively regardless of asking price. I believe if Anthopolous see’s the assets he wants this offseason he will hve the cash to address all of the needs he identifys. The only problem I see is a lack of talent available not a lack of funds.

        • Ahhhh, so you’re basing your comments on “knowledge” of the Jays’ budget that nobody but you has. I see where we might have, then, been on different pages.

          • Was this comment meant for Rob? Because I think we’re making the same argument.

          • No, I don’t know anything, I can make some educated guesses though. First of all, not counting any of the arb guys, we’ve got $61 million commited for next year. I think $3 million each for Rasmus and Happ is fair and realistic. Rajai’s option will probably be picked up, now we’re at $70 million. Once you factor in the other arb guys, and all the pre arb guys, I would imagine that this team as is going to be close to the payroll for this year, say $80 million.

            I do believe that payroll will go up this year, but if we put in a hypothetical Ortiz at $15 million/per, that will put us at $95 million for next year.

            So, no, I don’t know the internal machinations of the Blue Jay braintrust. I just don’t for a second believe that we’re going to have a $105+ million payroll next year, which is where it would be at with Ortiz AND a #2 SP.

        • If only signing Ortiz taps out our budget – I’m going to start rooting for a team that actually spends money like the Tampa Rays :(

          • Why? With Ortiz on the team, and pretty much nobody else, we’re looking at between $90-$95 million.

            That’s a decent number, and one that would “tap out” the budgets of a lot of teams in the league.

        • What Ortiz has been paid in the past is as irrelevant as the Jays’ history with aging players. If you look at Ortiz as a 3-4 win player right now, then 2/30 is at worst a slight overpay when taking into consideration decline. As for your comment about the Jays’ budget, well, that is just baseless speculation that really doesn’t change whether or not signing Ortiz makes sense for the team.

          • But Ortiz is at the age where he could become a 1 or less WAR player overnight, and it wouldn’t be too shocking. He’s at the age when players decline…fact is, he’s already an outlier being this good at this age. But nobody is a machine. Might he have another good year in him? Of course, maybe two or three. But that’s not percentages. And unlike the Yankees, we cannot afford a $15 million/year contract that doesn’t pan out. Because the team as it’s currently constructed isn’t a playoff team, and no I don’t need to bug Antholpolouses phone to know that if they sign Ortiz at that price, it will make it much, much less likely that we get ANOTHER big name, elite FA talent this year, so if Ortiz starts the inevitable decline in 2013, we would, once again, not be a playoff team.

      • and Frank Thomas.

  18. For the record, I detest booing your own team/players, with minor exceptions/examples that I can’t even think of right now (ie. not trying, but how do you prove that?). I asked my buddy about this. He’s a die-hard Dodgers fan–season’s tix, etc. I asked about the RR Cool Jay outings and “what if he were a Dodger?” and he said that he’d be booed mercilessly, even though they love RR in hometown LA. Still not saying it’s right. But I was starting to think it was just an idiot Toronto thing. Dunno, maybe it is. But seems the assholes have company.

  19. I booed the concession dude when he told me I owed him $20 for a beer.

  20. Tell the Jays to stop sucking and I’ll stop booing. My target is always Kelly Johnson, though, at least Ricky Romero outwardly cares, I can’t stand players who look like they’re just collecting a pay-cheque. I can’t wait to see that fucker gone in a few weeks.

    Pretentious asses who get paid to watch baseball can spout all they want, but us plebs gain nothing from this team except when they win, and since they haven’t done that since 1993, I say boo if you want to boo.

    • Spoken like yet another complete fucking idiot.

      • anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. got it. keep on ignoring 99% of the fan base and stay in your little fucking bubble.

        you get so easily angered . . . it’s almost like your childish remarks are making a noise . . . is sounds like booing.

        • Oh, come on, lots of people disagree with me and aren’t idiots. Just not you.

          By the way, I love the justification: a supposed 99% of people think one way, so then I totally should too!

          • @ Stoeten

            Ahem.
            Does this mean I’m not an idiot and we just disagree on some things?
            Or am I a 1%er?
            LOL

          • you seem to be quite pleased with how things have gone these past few years, the vast majority are not, hence the thousands booing every game. (I know you have a problem admitting someone else’s opinion can be as valid as yours–even if you disagree with it, it doesn’t make me an idiot)

            I really don’t give a shit what you think, I stated my opinion and that’s all there is to it. Romero should be shut down because he is an embarrassment and is not helping anyone. Sad as it is to say, I’d rather have Cecil start than see another Ricky meltdown.

          • Aaron, what the fuck are you talking about?

        • Stoeten probably just hasn’t smoked any weed today. Chill out, fatboy.

      • I don’t know how you put up with this day in and day out.

        I also don’t know how you can’t see inside of KJ’s brain like Aaron here. Obviously KJ doesn’t care – he hasn’t smashed anything. Real men break things.

  21. Lost in all the bitching about the appropriateness of booing is the fact that there were actually quite a few cheers for Romero on Sunday. I’d say it was half and half, with the cheers (they seemed like positive reinforcement cheers more than Bronx cheers to my somewhat-untrained ear) arguably drowning out the boos. It was certainly better than the avalanche of boos Romero had heard in previous outings at the Rogers Centre. It was a step in the right direction.

  22. I know waht RR could do. Next start after the leadoff batter gets on base, throw over to first base, like 400 fucking times in a row until the runner gives up and agrees to be picked off. Do that with every batter, just make sure they don’t hit homers-play catch with third baseman after a triple. The game will take 17hrs to complete the umps will guve up and RR will win by default at 9 am the next day.
    Seriously , any idea what baseball would do if a pitcher threw over like 34 in a row since there is no rule limiting pick off attempts

  23. Boo when the ump makes a call you don’t like.
    Boo when your team gets plunked.
    Boo whenever the opposing manager runs on the field.
    and Boo when a player makes a completely moronic mental mistake, if you like. (ex. handing the ball to a fan when there are only 2 outs.)

    but don’t Boo a guy who is truly trying his hardest, taking his loses like a man, and just isn’t getting the results he’s looking for.

    oh yeah, and Boo Ricky Romero.

  24. BREAKING NEWS! FARRELL HAS BEEN FIRED!

    PRESS CONFERENCE AT 5PM

  25. Colby rasmus is on fire.

  26. The O’s deserve their success and I’m rooting for them. It’s nice that one cellar-dweller can climb out for a change. Shame it wasn’t us, but there ya go. Generally at this point in the season I’m just rooting for whichever NL team comes along to beat the Sox or the Yankees. I hope the O’s go the distance and I think they deserve it if they get there. It’s been a season full of nay-sayers and they’ve proved them all wrong to this point. I really really wish that we could have a season where all the doubters get all over our ass. But it seems just the opposite here. At the start of every season someone says the Jays are the sexy dark-horse pick. And every season right about now I start to disengage from baseball because my team has been out of it for weeks. Boy am I tired of this shit. And given the multiple changes of ownership, management, players and philosophy, I guess the team is just kind of snake-bit. Maybe the baseball gods all wear star-spangled haloes and sit around watching the Olympics and chanting USA USA.

    • Hey isabella what’s with all the sexual inuendo? You’re getting me all frisky. I’d love to go the distance with you and get all over your ass. You like sexy horses? Cmon ride the d’angelo horse.

  27. I guess the orioles are just a one year fucking aberation

    • The stats geeks call it an outlier.
      Sounds better.more pretentious.

      • Well, they are getting incredibly lucky. If they make the playoffs (or even win the East) with a run differential like this, they’ll be one of the luckiest teams in the history of baseball.

        • Kinda cool Eh.
          That regardless of all the advanced metrics, a teams record isn’t predetermined,
          That any team has a chance no matter what the “experts” say.

  28. Looks like Gose and Beck are the only two September call-ups this year? Doesn’t look like Gomes is coming up in September as per his tweet yesterday.

  29. Hey lets not forget the Jays won spring training…sombitches can’t take that away from us!

  30. Don’t worry, boys and girls, there’s always next year.

    Until next year comes, and then AA and Beeston will claim that the team will spend in 2014.

    And on and on it goes…

    Kool Aid anyone?

    • So you’re saying that we should blindly assume things will always stay the same, rather than to look at how the club is operating and see reasons for being hopeful? And I’m to take it we’re supposed to be the idiots in your little comment here? Uh… fail.

      • “we should blindly assume things will always stay the same”?

        Well, they have.

        For about 20 years now.

        • If you look at the last 20 years in the most laughably narrow way, yes.

          Don’t worry, though, the ceaseless burden of trolling has been lifted from you, my friend.

          • To be fair Stoeten, Franks opinion is prevalent with uniformed, casual fan.
            You can hear all the time, 19 years blah, blah balh.
            There are a bunch of Franks out there who need to be educated.

            • Just wait one second. It has been 19 years. The casual fan needs to be educated in what? The science of failure? Because this team has been failing for far too long and there is nothing ‘casual fan’ about that. I wish there was some good reason for all this mess. But there have been far too many changes to point at one thing and yell ‘that’s it!’. We were sold an amazing farm team and the start of a continually-contending club. But unless there is a pretty good overhaul this off-season, we are looking at the same old same old rinse and repeat.

  31. Wouldn’t boo him and sure wouldn’t bother to troll him on twitter, but no way I’m wasting my time watching his starts.

  32. After considering all the options in the primers, I think the Jays’ best best bet would be Edwin Jackson. If we do infact get an extra 10-15 million to play with, sp innings (both quantity and quality) would need to be the priority.

    28 years old, RH, a decent season in the AL and an excellent year right now for the competing Nationals in a good division. He took a 1 year deal to increase his value, have to like his overall record of quality starts and durability.

    Even allowing for an AL East adjustment, have to like him as an affordable # 2 option.

    • I’m all for him, totally. But also more, MORE, MORE!!!!!

    • Getting a guy like Edwin Jackson or David Ortiz (or both) would be great and would provide significant upgrades on what this team has…but it’s still hard to understand why such acquisitions weren’t made last offseason when they were cheaper. Are the Jays really any closer to contending now than they were at the end of 2011?

      • You know why BFF.
        EJ was avaialable but woulda been wasted without answering what the question marks on the team were.
        Questions at the beginning of the season were way beyond what one pitcher would do.
        Now you know what you got.
        Now I agree with you.
        This off season is the time to spend.

  33. Stoeten’s certainly learned from his days of booing Eric Hinske for no reason (or as he referred to him back then…Shitske).

  34. Don’t boo your own team unless your player has made a complete dumbass mistake. Otherwise just remain silent and sip on your beverage.

    Romero just needs his sinker back and get some unpredictability back into his pitching.

    Oh yeah, and fuck David Ortiz.

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