Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of, with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Parkes absolutely nails it at Getting Blanked on the Night the Dome Broke, but he misses one crucial thing: the potential of a future where, due to continued breakage and difficulty of getting parts for the ultra-specialized 20-year-old structure, it becomes necessary to close the dome permanently. I don’t throw such words around lightly, but that very well might kill baseball in Toronto, I fear. Hahahaha, and you thought things couldn’t get any more bleak!

At the Toronto Star, Richard Griffin begins a ridiculous blowjob for ex-Expos GM Dan Duquette of the Orioles by citing the Jays’ dismal crowd on what’s traditionally the worst- or second worst-attended day of the year– the day after labour day. So… it’s kinda hard to take this one seriously.

Like many Jays fans, many Orioles fans just can’t seem to be able to wrap their heads around the fact that the O’s record tells us how many games they’ve won, not how good they are. Baseball Think Factory points us to Baltimore Sports Report, who take issue with Keith Law of ESPN, insisting that “there’s literally nothing that the Orioles can do to convince me that they are a good team.” I couldn’t agree more, and I’m pretty sure if you played out the 2012 season 1000 different times, Baltimore wouldn’t make the playoffs in the vast majority of outcomes. But… good on them, I guess. I hate it for very obvious reasons, but it must be fun as fuck, and it’s not like those fans don’t also deserve it.

Good news, if you’re inclined to take it at face value: Shi Davidi tweets that “Jose Bautista underwent his wrist surgery today in Cleveland. Blue Jays say procedure was a success.”

More shovelling of the John Farrell to Boston horseshit, this time from Rob Bradford of

At Sportsnet, Davidi talks to Brian Butterfield and Buck Showalter about the O’s success, while being careful not to tread into “Buck Showalter manages teams up” nonsense territory.

In a notebook at, Gregor Chisholm quotes John Farrell on Brett Cecil’s new role out of the bullpen, and how the manager is going to have to… er… manage the buzz about him when the club heads to Boston this weekend.

More attendance stuff from FanGraphs, where Carson Cistulli posts a table of the best attendance in the Majors this year by percentage of capacity. The Jays are fifth-last– they also have fifth highest capacity stadium in MLB– though they are better than 11 teams in terms of average attendance per game, at least for now.

Elsewhere at FanGraphs, Jeff Sullivan looks at the division race in the AL East, which– ugh– apparently isn’t over.

Jays Prospects looks at flamethrower Nose Snygen, a key to the Lansing Lugnuts’ hopes as they enter the Midwest League playoffs tonight.

Think sports reporting is the only area where the base knowledge of the legacy media fell hopelessly behind the people they cover? Nope, it’s happening in politics too. Andrew Sullivan aggregates some recent work on the missing coverage of the sophisticated data operations now employed by political campaigns, which starts to sound awfully familiar.

Lastly, at Baseball Prospectus, Russell A. Carelton takes an interesting into the topic of racism (or nativism) in the broadcast booth– something we talked about at length on our most recent Getting Blanked Podcast.

Comments (99)

  1. Les go blueyays!!!

  2. Hah – I love how the Fangraphs guy goes into this big statistical abstract about his methods and calculations to determine league attendance by % of capacity, only to find out ESPN has the exact same stats available, for free, updated daily, and has had them for the past decade.

    Of note: calculating attendance by % of capacity has always seemed really dumb to me, considering the league’s largest ballpark is a whopping 22,000 seats larger than the league’s smallest, so it’s not exactly an apple-to-apple comparison

    • Unless you’re the Red Sox, selling out a small 37,000 park every day, I don’t see the point in looking at % attendance capacity.

      Like… it’s somehow better that the Marlins draw 27k in a 37k stadium rather than a 50k stadium? I get there’s less overhead, but I don’t see what it says about fan support.

    • Yeah, but I imagine it gives you a better feel for the atmosphere in each park.

  3. ” But… good on them, I guess. I hate it for very obvious reasons, but it must be fun as fuck, and it’s not like those fans don’t also deserve it.”


  4. Regarding the dome, I once spoke to a structural engineer about the Dome, who likened it to a shoebox. When the roof is closed, the building is very much like a shoe box with the lid on – it is sturdy. When the roof is open, it’s like a shoe box with the lid off – the top of the building is not as rigid and has mobility (think about the open side of a shoebox).

    Eventually, the open dome will have shifted so much that the roof will no longer be able to open/close, and it will be “stuck” in one position. (Imagine trying to put the lid back on a shoebox that is no longer square).

    I’m not an engineer, so I can’t speak to the statement itself… perhaps someone here could confirm/deny that.

    • Blow the whole damn thing away.

      … Seriously though, wouldn’t it be cool to just… I dunno… Remove the entire fuckign hotel and replace it with a view of the city…. or something….

      Of course that would never work and you;d be better just building a new stadium….

      Fuck you Rogers Centre.

      • I’ve thought about that – but I’m not sure what the view would really be. I think the other side of the train tracks is the the backs of a couple buildings. Still, better than what it is now.

        • Or… Marlins have an aquarium (I think). We could replace the hotel with a big fucking bird sanctuary……

    • Wow, that’s interesting if true. Anyway, I seem to recall several other times where the roof got temporarely stuck, but never during a game while it was raining before.

    • A cardboard shoebox doesn’t compare well to concrete and steel…. this sounds rather unscientific.

    • Interesting. My first year civ eng class is many, many years behind me, so I can’t speak to the validity of that claim, but some quick numbers yield that the dome is open maybe 6% of the time (7 hrs a day times 60 home games + 20 misc other events), which to me doesn’t seem like sufficient time for it to warp. I would think it’d have to be left open for significantly longer, especially per occasion, to have much structural impact.

    • I’ve worked on large projects that combine structural and mechanical components directly (mostly movable bridges – the kind that open for marine traffic), and I find it hard to believe that the building itself could shift enough for the roof to stick open or closed. Being a giant concrete blob, you would have to see some significant cracking for it to deform to the point where the roof no longer fits, at which point whether-or-not the roof opens is no longer your greatest concern.

      As for lateral stability from the roof, one would hope that the exterior walls were designed for a worst case scenario wind load – in practice, you design the walls to support the roof load, not the other way around.

      As a structural engineer, it’s common practice to place blame elsewhere when possible. In this case, it’s probably the fault of those damn mechanical engineers and their ridiculous tolerance expectations.

      Why didn’t Cooper just tag him?

    • The flexion of the structure is natural and part of the proper engineering design of the building initially in both open and closed scenarios. The concept that ‘eventually it will have shifted too much to be usable’ is beyond silly. I suggest to you that maybe this ‘structural engineer’ has f.a. to do with actual engineering. Maybe an engineering technologist passing himself off to laymen, which unfortunately happens too often.

      • Thanks Fred -

        The person was definitely an iron ring engineer, though not professional… so maybe the school he went to needs some work. :)

        Again, I’m no engineer, so I appreciate the insight.

        • Also, I should add that the idea that the building might have some “play” (obviously not as much as a shoebox) didn’t seem totally outrageous to me at the time… I was really unsure about the “amount” of play a building like the RC might have, if any.

          Again – thanks.

          • Certainly there are varying levels of competence amongst those that wear ‘the ring’. Any large structure will flex and move under it’s own weight and as different loads are applied to it. Some more or less, governed for the most part by the type of structure & application. Any movement in the superstructure of RC is a known and predicatble entity that the engineers knew ‘going in’. RC is an extremely massive strong reinforced structure that would have had to be designed to sustain structural integrity roof closed or open & also massive wind loads with the roof open & seismic stresses both open and closed.

            The achilles heel, if there is one, would be the mechanical drive and control system of the roof itself
            which is subject to wear and tear and compoent failure like any moving parts are…these are just much bigger gear and bearings and motors meant to do bigger things.

    • I have a hard time believing that … and I have a structural engineering degree and have been working in building restoration for near 10 years.

      The place isn’t a flimsy thin-walled box. Its walls are massive heaps of concrete that are heavily reinforced.

  5. “becomes necessary to close the dome permanently. I don’t throw such words around lightly, but that very well might kill baseball in Toronto, I fear. Hahahaha, and you thought things couldn’t get any more bleak!”

    I think, at this point, the Blue Jays are firmly entrenched in the Rogers sports empire enough that they wouldn’t let this scenario play out. They’d find a way to fix the dome, or speed up talk of a new stadium. I mean we’re probably 5 to 10 years away from seriously talking about that anyway.

    But yeah, if I’m wrong, that would be a bleak future.

    • I would have guessed we’re 20-25 years away from seriously talking about that.

      • I recall Beeston on with McCown (I think) this year saying that a conversation about major stadium renovations or a new stadium will have to happen at some point. I believe McCown speculated he thought it would be within (5 to 10 years).

        Who the hell knows though.

        I do shudder at the idea of this team playing in the Rogers Centre 25 years from now.

      • Who knows… the Dome is only 23 year old, you’d think it would have to go another 20-25 before you think about replacing it. At the same time, the Dome was built just before some of the newer old-fashioned stadiums, like Camden Yards and Jacobs Field (or whatever the hell it’s called now), which might give Rogers appetite to shorten that timeline. One would hope that Rogers acquiring the Dome for a fucking song would compel them to retrofit it for other purposes and give the people a REAL baseball stadium. I think they could build a nice 40,000 seat park down by the lake where Ontario Place is now.

        • Rogers interest in a new facility is now riding into southern Ontario on a unicorn.

        • There is nothing around Ontario place to make it a great option for a stadium. The Exhibition GO is already a nightmare when 15K people leave a concert, doubling that would be a disaster.

          Also, there are really no bars or restaurants within walking distance of Ontario Place, nothing for fans to do before or after games

          • A better option would be the Port Lands. There’s new transit going there. Lots of industrial space, and you’d have room for a ballpark village that could be anchored by the stadium itself. It’s 5 minutes out of the downtown core, and for people coming from the suburbs it’s at the foot of the DVP. And the Leslie Spit, Cherry Beach, they will all still be there. Hell, you could probably keep The Docks in business across the street. Maybe someone will even build Doug Ford a ferris wheel!

            Seriously though, I see Council haggling about the Port Lands and it just seems so obvious to me: put the ballpark there and grow the area around it. It’s worked for so many other cities.

          • Public transit, Bars and restaurants follow the stadium, not the other way around.

      • In the next five years, I would expect that we would move into a new stadium two to three times

    • The recent renovations have helped. But it’s still a shit stadium. Going on what I see from the renovations, and information from my cousin who works in the Rogers Centre field conversion crew and knows the place inside and out, I’d gather the renovations bought the stadium some time. Maybe 20 years. But that’s being generous. The reason a stadium like Wrigley Field survives for 100 years is because there are no mechanical gears to change the shape of the place. All the multi-purpose toilets were gone after maybe 40 years of service because they wear down a lot faster with all the change-overs. I think the only two left now are RFK in Washington and Olympic in Montreal, and both of those are basically unused now, aside from occasional huge events like the Grey Cup or a college bowl game.

      Now, the Jays want the Argos out to at least put in grass. As an Argos fan I want them out as well, they deserve a real CFL stadium. As soon as TFC folds or moves and is never heard from again (which hopefully will happen soon) the Argos will get BMO Field and the Jays can proceed with their ultimate plan, which is to retro-fit Rogers Centre. I’m guessing they will model it after what they did in Anaheim, turning a multi-purpose junk pile into a gorgeous baseball-only park. I don’t think the Jays want to go anywhere because they have a perfect location right now.

      What I want to see the Jays do in the meantime is start adding some nods to the history. Remember, it may be a dump but there’s been some historic baseball moments that took place here. Start putting markings in the 5th deck to show where each 5th deck home run has been hit. Maybe a Toronto Blue Jays Hall of Fame, which you can combine with an alumni/induction weekend as an annual event and you can honour past Blue Jays with plaques and some interactive history exhibits. The Angels, Royals, Mariners and Rangers are expansion franchises who all have their own team Halls of Fame, and the Brewers have a Walk of Fame outside Miller Park. Until the Argos move out, let them have a Wall of Fame, or at least let them leave their banners up when they aren’t playing. If you can’t do the grass thing, this type of stuff could really enhance a drab place to watch a ball game, at least in the short term.

      • ” the Argos will get BMO Field ”

        They did a study and found that BMO field was too small for CFL football without investing a tonne of money to rejig it… Like so much money that it wasn’t worthwhile.

      • like… how about every home game friday we have a FLASH BACK to the past, by trotting out some old geezers like frank menechino or orlando merced. If that doesn’t bring out the fans, then i just give up.

    • I just hope that when the time does come, if they need a new park altogether, that Rogers builds it themselves. Publicly-funded stadiums are the devil, and I don’t want to see my city get held at gunpoint to build one of these things. Montreal is the prime example with the Olympic disaster, and there’s also this nugget from today:

  6. That whole racism “study” is such bullshit. One week’s worth of announcing? Really?

    And because old white announcers maybe project themselves onto the shorter, whiter players a little and call them scrappy, this is “racist”?

    Sorry. I would say it’s more like a weak narrative in a world full of people inventing narratives for everything they spectate and have no true knowledge of.

    • Spoken like a true person who hates knowledge.

      • Don’t forget “person who didn’t actually read the articles”

      • ? Huh?

        No, I read the original study and it is based on a bunch of assumptions that I personally don’t assume.

        I don’t assume that the number of times announcers repeat themselves correlates to “how racist” they are. I don’t agree that they singled out race adequately vs simply size, age or other factors. I don’t see that they factored out any home bias.

        On a more important note, I don’t see that they factored out… people who actually are scrappy and gutsy and whatever the fuck you want to call it. Lawrie is pretty “scrappy” IMO. So was Alomar, again IMO. So was Willie Mays (IMO!) – cause his hat always flew off, who cares if he wore one too big on purpose. But these are all my opinion and there is no stat to say I am right or wrong.

        And finally, IMO again, I don’t think racism is some absolute where if you can show some little bias in thought toward a race you are now A RACIST.

        If you put sprinkles on top of a dog turd it’s still gonna taste like shit. Science on top of a bunch of semantic, absolutist, unsubstantiated *dialogue* by announcers trying to find something to fill airtime with does not = science.

        • Well said and reasoned Sons. I’m with you. One can make any argument work if they conveniently leave out the factors that deter their argument. Maybe there is racism in the booth but this study does nothing to prove it. It’s total BS and the intelligent participants of this site should be smart enough to pick that up.

        • So – a few things

          1) The article linked today went pretty far to say that the author Does NOT believe the announcers are necessarily racist simply because they are displaying a bias in their descriptions.

          2) I think your comment that “I don’t think racism is some absolute where if you can show some little bias in thought toward a race you are now A RACIST.” comes far too close to “I don’t think I’m a racist and therefor I am not” for my comfort. That is a slippery slope my friend.

          3) I don’t have a problem with you disagreeing with the conclusions drawn, if any, of the study. But I think it’s a bit much to argue that the articles are unsubstantiated and not scientific. The authors pretty clearly laid out their method and I think did a decent job of recognizing its limitations…

          • 1) Didn’t read all of today’s article. I read the original study and found it flawed.

            2) I bet no one thinks they are racist. Even KKK probably think they are being perfectly fair and logical. So I agree with you – except I’m not talking about what the announcers think. I’m saying the term itself is loaded and should be clearly defined at the outset. Instead they imply that by measuring announcers dialogue you can measure racism. Says who? Where is the science in that? Is racism a chemical now that we can biopsy?

            3) The conclusions may even be right. But at best this is a statistical exercise that indicates potential bias. It just isn’t science. Nothing significant is controlled, the sample is small…

    • Or how about somebody who writes an article who ignores every other variable that may explain that the conclusions may skewed.
      logically, the article doesn’t make a lot of sense but I guess it’s stirs up the pot and gets everybody to give a shit about something that didn’t exist in the first place.

      sons is right. The article is bullshit.
      Give the author an “A” for trolling though.

      And Stoeten, if you consider this “knowledge” , as in learning something new.
      I’m surprised.

    • Wait, so are we claiming there’s no racism in professional sports? Or just announcing? Or that this study is bunk? Because those are all very different things.

    • You clearly didn’t read either article. Jesus, at least do your homework before you open your trap.

  7. How do you determine Bautista’s surgery a “success” the day it happened? That his hand is still attached to his arm? If he comes back and hits 12 HR next season then ‘success’ my ass.

  8. For me the biggest problem with the dome is even when the roof is open all you can see is the top of some random condo’s, the tower and the sky. Its fucking boring and its like you are partially underground or something.

  9. Start by getting rid of Kelly Johnson now- just fuckin give him to Oakland or something for $54 and a steak and play hech there.
    He is turning Escobar into a fukstik just because of his proximity and Escobar already needs an AA ( attitude ad).
    Stick a cork or grrenade up Colby’s ass so we can see some hustle and attitude-fuj he is starting to remind me in a way of Wells ( except for the contract) but holf fuk man, play like u give a shit and want tbe here or fukin give hime to Seattle for 3 tons of strabuck coffee and jason vargas-over and out

  10. What’s Griffin trying to say in that article, that the Jays should pick up as many pieces off the scrap heap as possible? That’s sound advice.

    • Yeah, I was wondering that too. Take a lesson from the Orioles: pick up garbage and hope for a miracle. It’s so weird. He really needs to be more specific on the “philosophy” that the Orioles used other than “whatever they did worked”. Seriously he cites KEVIN GREGG as a good addition. Like, holy fuck, the Jays tried that.

  11. I’m with Klaw. I think the O’s should suck too, but as a a Jays fan I would gladly accept some inexplicable success on their part. Two shutouts in a row has me wishing somebody would just take this season behind the barn and shoot it.

    • They did… it’s just taking a long time to bleed out.

    • The upside to the O’s making the playoffs would be that it likely forces at least one spend-to-contend team out. Detroit and Anaheim are on the outside looking in at the moment.

      • I can’t get away from Baltimore’s woeful run differential, but the Jays are doing their best to finally put them in the black.

        Good on Baltimore for making the case that sometimes random happens. I put their season in the “expect the unexpected, but don’t count on it” column.

        • I say good on them too. They have a team that should be .470 – .500 that is playing above average. And, like them, there are .530-.550 teams playing below average. It happens every year. This year, it just so happened to be OriLOLes. In recent years, it was the Reds, Rockies, Giants, Marlins, Rays, Indians, etc. Hopefully, it’ll break our way one year, except we’ll have a better core. Could have been this year if not for all the injuries.

      • @Stoeten are you always opposed to “spend to contend teams”

        Are you upset because the contracts given out by “spend to contend” teams prevent the Jays from being competitive since they don’t have the payroll parameters to compete?


        Are you upset by teams overpaying for players based on WAR value?

        I moved to Toronto in 1993 & was jealous that the Jays could afford to get any free agent they wanted while the Expos had to struggle to compete.

        Were Jays fans from 1989-1993 acting as arrogant fans of the red sox & the yankees behave now?

        Let’s say AA was given a green light to spend 140 million in 2013,
        ( unrealistic) but if it did happen, would you be outraged if they overpaid for free agents they signed?

  12. Referencing Andrew Sullivan on a baseball blog? Awesome.

  13. If the dome is someday permanently closed, I hope they remember to keep the A/C running through summers. I’ve been to a few well-attended games in summer with the roof closed and it can get pretty gross in the dome. I vividly remember a game in late June 2009 against the Phillies that was near-packed, the roof was closed and it was about as hot and humid inside the dome as it was outside. To make matters worse, the guy next to me didn’t believe in deodorant and stank like a South Oshawa crackhead.

    The idea of a new ballpark for the Jays is nice, but I think that may be a long ways away. I like the idea of an outdoor, roof-less ballpark in Toronto, perhaps located somewhere on or closer to the waterfront. I think an outdoor park is certainly possible, the weather issue (primarily that of winter) is a little overblown given that Minneapolis built an outdoor stadium and their winters are much, much worse than the pathetic shades of winter Toronto regularly experiences.

    • Good point.
      The Olympic Stadium didn’t have a roof from 1976-1987 & the expos played there.

      There was snow in winter. Sometimes they had to shovel the seats to get ready for opening day.

      It would get really damp in late september & in the October 1981 playoffs it was freezing.

      Bryant Gumbel was whining about having to wear gloves to cover the dodgers playoff game.

      • I wasn’t entirely aware of those aspects of outdoor baseball in Montreal, but it should be said that Montreal winters are colder than Toronto’s (and have to deal with a lot more snow). To the just about all of the rest of Canada, Toronto winters are mild at best.

        I’m just saying an outdoor stadium in Toronto wouldn’t introduce any new problems for MLB than what is already dealt with in Chicago or Minneapolis in early spring and late fall.

        Besides, if winter is going to cause any serious problems for baseball operations, Rogers & Co. could pull a Mel Lastman and call in the army.

        • I’ve been to rained out games at exhibition stadium. it really sucks to come in from out of town, sit through a few hours of rain, and have the game called. I would never buy advance tickets if we go dome-less.

        • Toronto winters are mild….lol

  14. That WEEI piece on the Sox and John Farrel was entertaining if for nothing else than the section entitled “FROM THE BLUE JAYS’ POINT OF VIEW” where the author fails to consider anything resembling what the Jays perspective would be – or why they would feel compelled to help a division rival – other than to point out that the cost would be high.

    I mean – Farrel kills me sometimes and if they were willing to give away something of high value for him – sure we’d listen. But that doesn’t change the fact that he’s under contract for one more season. The last thing the Jays want to do is seem like a feeder team for the rich teams.

    • I really don’t get how trading away top prospects for talent doesn’t make you seem like a feeder team, but trading away your manager for top talent does.

  15. So let’s have some postseason Oriole projections. Do they win the East? Do they play the one-game playoff? How far do they go, based on what we know?

  16. Any reason the Jays Prospects article is being linked to the podcast?

  17. “Success”
    What does that word mean? I’ve heard it before.

    • It means something nice and unexpected happens to some nice ball club a long way away. On a distant planet. Closer to the sun.

  18. More wins = Better team


    I’m sure if the Jays and O’s had each others records, you would be saying that the Jays still arent a good team, right?


  19. Apropos of the first (but not second and third) parts of this blog, can someone please explain to me WHY IN THE FUCK the NFL has decided to put their opening game on a Wednesday instead of a Thursday. Everyone knows that Thursday is a completely acceptable day to get blackout drunk watching the first three quarters of a football game then drunkenly hang around while they play the fourth quarter, thus allowing you to spend Friday morning learning who won the game and what actually happened while you were screaming the wrong name at the waitress at your local sports bar. If you do that on a Wednesday, you’re an alcoholic and still have two shitty days of work instead of just going through the motions for a few hours on Friday. I don’t know why the NFL decided to pursue this idiocy, but I assume it has something to do with greed.

    And now there’s no Jays game on Thursday either? WHAT THE FUCK?!? Actually, that’s probably not the worst thing ever; getting drunk for Jays games these days just puts you in a bad place. Unless you’re at Skydome – that’s always a good place to put back a few.

  20. Some revisionist history in the Griff article…I seem to remember a big reason why the Jays assistant GM wasn’t going to take the Baltimore job was because Baltimore’s owner wouldn’t give him autonomy in the hiring decisions. He wanted to fire a bunch of staff in the Orioles front office but was not going to be allowed to do so.

    Regarding the RC, it’s easy to get caught up in what’s bad about it (too big, too much concrete, artificial turf) and forget about the GOOD features of the park (great location downtown near Union Station, functioning retractable roof (until last night anyways!),clean, structurally sound, etc.). If people think attendance is bad now, imagine how many people will show up for games in April when it is 5 degrees out with wind whipping off lake Ontario at a new outdoor stadium at Ontario Place. Or after a sellout game sitting in a parking lot for 3 hours waiting for everyone to clear out.

    Personally I’d love to see a major renovation at the dome…make it baseball only with real grass, reduce the seating capacity and add something big to the outfield (waterfalls, rocks, something else maybe baseball or blue jay related) tear down the hotel and put in massive windows to allow for a view of the outside and for natural light to shine into the park. Common Rogers make it happen!

    • Probably need to start with a contending baseball team first then maybe in 10 years, if they are still in Toronto of course.

  21. Tea party? That came out of right field.:)

    If we insist on crossing the sports/political paradigm then lets at least do so accurately, ok?

    The knuckle dragging, overly respresented ‘Jays fan’ that is currently frothing at the mouth are really, in large part, very casual baseball fans.

    The vast majority are leafs fans first and their Jays fandom consists of turning on a few games whilst hungover from the cottage long weekend and catching the highlights while waiting for updates on the NHL labour dispute on sportscentre.

    They have little to no concept, wether because they are too ignorant or conspiratorial minded, of the strides the organization has taken over the past two years and insist on picking at largely inconsequential darns hanging to call out the whole uniform as garbage.

    This is the making of conspiracy moonbats a la fake moon landing/JFK/911sort who need to be ignored lest the whole collective get infected. At one time in Canada over 40% believed the 911 attacks were orchestrated by the US government.

    Yes, there are that many dumb people in the world – however this is at the opposite end of the political spectrum than which the tea partiers currently occupy (and can have their own form of dumb as well – just a different type)

    good post


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