Welp. I think I can no longer just keep on rolling my eyes at the once-again ubiquitous rumours about John Farrell being pursued by the Boston Red Sox, as it seems to be the hot topic of the day, with the Jays headed to Boston, and with current Sox manager Bobby Valentine continuing to make it seem like his staying beyond this season is an untenable proposition.

Parkes has an excellent piece on it at Getting Blanked, with the latest dish from Nick Cafardo of  the Boston Globe, who says that Farrell is Boston’s top choice, suggests that talks to “trade” the manager to Boston last winter may have gone deeper than we assumed, and thinks that the Jays would love to add the recently-acquired Rubby De La Rosa . Bluebird Banter and the Blue Jay Hunter also have pieces about it as well.

Like many fans, I find it somewhat repugnant that there’s this assumption out there that, if Boston came a-callin’ and the opportunity was there for Farrell to choose one club or the other, well, of course he’d choose the Red Sox. That’s especially true in Farrell’s specific case, because it’s not like he’s a born-and-bred Bostonian or has terribly deep ties with the organization– he was the pitching coach for five season, which is the same number of years he spent as the Director of Player Development in Cleveland, which was also the organization who drafted him in 1984 and where he spent five seasons in the big leagues. There’s also the matter of how the Red Sox shitcanned his buddy, Terry Francona, then spit on him once he was out the door.

Even the fact that there were “informal” talks about compensation last winter doesn’t necessarily mean Farrell was packing his bags, ready to go– it can easily be chalked up to some good ol’ Anthopoulosian due diligence.

I tend to not be so believing that the Jays would allow themselves to be treated as also-rans, stepping stones to bigger and better things, the way they would have to by letting their manager go. Part of me would love– love– to see the club announce a contract extension for their manager in Boston, even if, on a practical level, it probably makes more sense to just let the Red Sox have him if they want him so damn bad.

I mean, I like Farrell OK enough, and it seems that the players and the media do as well, but he’s never struck me as irreplaceable. His in-game strategy certainly leaves a lot to be desired, and I’d be more vocal about it if it wasn’t beyond ridiculous to bother nitpicking a manager’s usage of such an injury-decimated roster, or if it didn’t mean aligning myself with the kinds of insufferable, braying dolts who… well… who sound like some of the commenters on the Getting Blanked piece.

Plus, it’s not like the Jays don’t have ready-made replacements in the organization, like Brian Butterfield or Sal Fasano. I’d actually be really intrigued to see ol’ Sally Boy come in here and give it a whirl, despite the fact that, y’know, I know nothing of his managerial style. Especially since it would mean the Jays got a nice bit of compensation in return from a division rival.

And for what? A manager? Pffft, it’s a no-brainer. Especially when you’ve already lost a bunch of potential trade chips to injury this season. And fuck, another part of me would love to see it happen, if only just for the little staged shit fits of some of the local media hacks that would certainly follow. But I still doubt it will, if only because it really does look so fucking bush league, that Boston won’t offer nearly what people want to dream of, and I think the notion that Farrell would obviously salivate over the opportunity is laughably overblown.


Comments (120)

  1. Xander Bogaerts for Farrell!

    • Good luck.

      • Well, at least it’s a downgrade demand from Buchholz, fwiw.

        • I’m not sure Bogaerts is a downgrade from Buchholz at this point. Clay has been horrible this season.

          • Ehh.. I suppose it’s debatable. Buchholz is still contributing a 2-win season. Maybe their value is about even at this juncture, but at least Buchholz can help – yes, help – your team right now.

          • Well it is a for sure downgrade from Buchholz of last off-season.

        • Im not implying I wouldn’t love to get Buchholz, I am just saying that I wouldn’t consider Bogaerts a major downgrade from CB. In fact, I’d RATHER have CB than XB, because we need pitching more than a SS.

  2. Didn’t the Jays come out and say they wanted Buchholz for Farrell last year. That pretty much shutdown the rumours and talk of a move pretty quickly.

    • I don’t think the Jays actually ever officially commented on it at all.

      They just said ‘we have changed our policy to no longer allow lateral moves to other organizations”.

  3. Fuck the fuckin sox. The only thing keeping me watching this team is the glimmer of hope that we could be the team to put them in the shithole of the AL East.

  4. A fresh approach is need

    1. Farrell has done nothing to warrant an extension. Just because he wears a Jays uniform does not mean he is doing a good job. If Boston wants him let him go. Don’t get hung up on compensation. He has way more value to Jays fans eyes then he does anywhere else. ( manager porn) Just look at the media report from south of the boarder. They all qualify their stories with a comment of the poor job he had done in Toronto.
    2. Murphy’s time is up. His approach if flawed and the Jays need some new blood. He was Cito’s guy and although his pull happy theme worked for a few players there has been regression and stagnation up and down the line up.
    3. Walton has had little talent to work with and with what he has had he had done very little. It could be a good time to make a fresh start with the pitching coaches as well. I know morrow has progressed but with that much talent he was going to anyway.
    4. Butterfield?? doesn’t he coach base running

    There are lots capable people out there, At minimum if Farrel stays let him pick a new staff instead of being stuck with cito holdovers

    • OK… see… but you’re the tool I was referring to from the Getting Blanked comments. Why am I reading shit you’re just pulling out of your ass?

      • so we should let the manager go but keep all the coaches, Why not let a new manager hire his own personel. Have the Jays had that much sucess with the coaches that have been there the last 5 years

    • tough to blame the coaching staff for this team.

      nobody can make chicken salad from chicken shit.

  5. Rubby! Rubby! Rubby!

    The kid is going to be a Jordan Zimmerman type in two years… would love to have him as a Blue Jay…I’d drive to Toronto, pick up Farrell and drive him to Boston if that is what it takes

  6. I don’t get why the Red Sox or the Boston media is so fascinated with Farrell, but I’d love to see management take advantage of this.

    Managers usually get fired after horrible seasons like this, not traded for actual assets to divisional rivals.

    • Right. Managers get fired after injury decimated seasons all the time.

      • Uh, they do. In fact, former Jays manager Carlos Tosca even got fired mid-season in 2004 when everyone was succumbing to injury all around him.

      • The truth is that managers just make easy scapegoats for GMs when things go wrong (regardless of what the chief cause of the failure was).

        • +1. If a team has a couple of bad seasons, the first step is to fire the manager. Second step is fire the second manager.

          Third step is the GM gets fired.

      • Don’t forget injury decimated seasons that the GM never even promised winning in.

        Even at the height of greatness in spring training AA never promised anyone anything for this season.

  7. I’d make that trade for Ruby in a second.

    I love the whole everyone would rather manage in Boston than Toronto. Even though Boston is a complete mess right now, and the Jays look to have a brighter future right now.

    What a joke.

  8. All I can say is thank god football has started. The Blue Jays season was starting to lead me down a spiral of sports-despair.

    Also, what you said about the management thing Stoeten. I might feel a little more strongly about the idea of Boston poaching our manager because “he’s got nicer looking toys than me. I want HIS toy. I WANT IT!” than you seem to. But fuck me. Its a manager. If the price is right we’ll find a new guy with a slightly less presidential jaw. The world will keep turning and, heck, maybe Omar won’t run for home on a FUCKING SINGLE TO UPTON when he wouldn’t tag up on a fly ball to the track!

    Seriously, what a shitty call that was. Just terrible.

  9. Boston would be nuts to give up De La Rosa for a manager but maybe, with the media shitstorm that is their ecosystem, they will have no choice :-).

    • Agreed, but never forget how boneheaded the Sox can be when they want a player. Methinks this applies to Farrell.

      • That would rule. The ChiSox got a good return for Ozzie but De La Rosa could be in the rotation next year… for minimum salary…

  10. This is the thing… AA has to tread lightly on this one… if he negotiates with Boston on compensation, then he gives JF the idea that they’re not sold on him as their Manager. At the same time, if AA refuses to negotiate for JFs services, and Farrell doesnt want to be here passed 2013, then you squandered an opportunity to get something out of him.

    I think someone mentioned this on the BJH thread; and I wholeheartedly agree…

    AA needs to sit down with Farrell and determine what JF wants to do. If he’s going to go to Boston after 2013, then ship him out of town now. If he’s committed to the Jays and wants to be here, than give him an extension if you want him to stay on. If the Jays dont want him, then ship him out.

    I think its really that simple.

    • How is he going to go to Boston after 2013? They’re not going to hire an interim guy for a whole year.

      • I’m just saying, if he doesn’t want to stay past 2013 when his contract expires and he intends to leave. I am sure if Boston wants him bad enough, they’ll get an interim guy, or suck up another year of Bobby V No? (Although, I honestly believe BV is trying to get fired…LOL)

        Maybe my perspective is jaded, but I just think it comes down to what AA wants, what Farrell wants, and if they both want the same thing. If one of them wants out, then it makes sense to let him go.

        Wouldn’t you agree?

      • Bring Back Bobby!

    • @Mcgowan

      Very good post. It’s up to Farrell. If his family wants to go back to Boston & he feels happier there, then AA has to take advantage of the situation & let him go for a player as compensation.

      If I was Farrell I would have to weigh a chance of a lifetime to manage a historic franchise where he can come in like a white knight. against having his friend Francona treated as a pariah by the red sox management.

      Farrell would also be worried that his in game management will be analyzed & criticized much more closely than in Toronto.

      Very interesting decison.

      Would AA pick Sal Fasano as a replacement over Butterfield??

  11. If we can get anything of even some value for a manager I’m game. I’m indifferent to Farrell, liked some moves, disliked others. I get the sense that’s how I’ll feel about anyone. I’m not sure I’ve ever felt in love with a manager.

  12. Larry Lucchino can kiss my sweet fucking ass!

  13. If it was another team, you see if you can work a deal out, improve your roster and give Fasano a try..

    but its the red sox, what kind of statement does it send to let your manager get poached by a divisional rival.

    I think they need to sign farrell to an extension asap if AA feels he’s the guy. I’m not a huge farrell fan but there’s worse managers and atleast he knows hes not perfect and always looks to improve.

    • Well the team ‘s reputation would look bad that the can’t keep their managers, but Farrellseems like a special case. I

      I wonder if Rogers is worried about their reputation as a feeder team for the big market teams.

      I am sure AA could talk his way out of keeping Farrell, but I get a sense that AA like Farrell because of his excellent communication skills.

      There has been no clubhouse complaints as far as we know.

      • I think it would be safe to say that if JF let AA know that he wanted to return to Boston, and that the Jays were going to head in a different direction, they’d be sure to save face in the forum of public opinion… I dont think AA is going to let JF go to Boston with the perception that the Jays hosed him. They will have a joint press conference where JF will thank the Jays for the opportunity, but that he’s desire is to return to Boston to coach the Red Sox and that the Jays gave him the freedom to do so. Everyone wins. I dont see any reputations getting tainted out of this.

  14. Am I crazy for thinking there’s any chance of a Terry Francona connection to Toronto lurking, since it’s never even been mentioned?

    I’m probably crazy for even suggesting it. But shit, there’s a small part of me that is thinking…

    • You’re probably crazy. But not crazy to think it’d be a good idea…

    • I like that thinking though.

    • I like this idea, ‘crazy’ or not, with Francona you’d get his experience and what I suspect
      is pretty strong motivation to mop the floor with the Sox and Yanks.

    • Francona played for the Expos from 1981-1985, so he is familiar with Canada.

      I wonder if Francona would like a chance at going against other AL east teams.

      I doubt AA would want a high profile Manager who may make demands that the team be competitive immediately etc..

      Francona has no experience with low payroll parameter teams that are stil building.

      Could Francona deal with young players??

  15. that would be hilarious if we trade Farrell to the Red Sox and then sign Francona to a contract. haha. That is win-win for the Jays as we get compensation and end up with the better manager. :)

  16. Apparently A.A. is going to be on McCown’s little radio show tonight.

  17. I commented about this on a game threat earlier this week.
    What exactly do the Red Sox expect Farrell to bring to their club? Will he immediately change the scope of the team, make them a winner with a snap of his fingers?

    I mean, I like him just fine as well. But honestly, some of his decision making in game has been very suspect. And in a town like Boston, so enshrined in baseball tradition, how well would the so-called “Farrell Ball” go over with the Massholes when he makes a bad decision late in a game that gets a baserunner thrown out.

    Could you imagine Omar Vizquel being managed by Farrell in Boston trying to steal a base with 2 outs, down by a run in the ninth. He gets enough flack in Toronto for those kinds of decisions, I could only imagine the internet shitstorm that would happen in Boston.

    • I think the main motive behind Boston fascination with Farrell is that they think he can fix Bucholz and Lester. I was listening to WEEI once and they mentioned that pitchers were scared of JF. They think lack of JF presence was the main reason of last year’s collapse.
      I personally think that he is replaceable. Lots of questionable calls and bull pen mismanagement in the last two seasons.

    • Check out stuff on SOSH and the like. They think he has the “toughness” to “fix the clubhouse”. They expect an enforcer, but a quiet one. Can you see why they think they need him so bad?

    • +1

      It would be hilarious to see Farrell Ball get roasted in Boston for dumb moves whereas Wilner’s groupies would make excuses for his decisons.

      Why are there so many baserunning mistakes on this team?

  18. gettting a player for a manager is something I would do in a heartbeat. Even the famous (infamous) manager, Johm Mcgraw might have been worth only a couple of wins never mind a John Farrell-there would always be someone else and yeah, Francona would suffice. Acahnce to get a decent player for no cash and no bodys needs to be explored

  19. Trade Farrell for Valentine in the hopes that Valentine punches Greg Brady in the nose for saying embarrassing shit.

  20. Joe Torre was a bum when he managed 3 different teams, he was a gawd in NYNY. Managers can’t win you many extra games, but they can lose you a shitload. The Sox are dumb as a bag of hammers when it comes to overpaying players they covet. I’m sure some of that applies to Farrell. Big John has a nice presence, but his small ball and plain weird shuffling and over staffing of the pen has me dizzy. I’m a fan of Butters; I like Sal Fasano better.
    Hell, if you asked me if I would rather have Sal straight up over Farrell, the answer is a resounding yes.

  21. I actually wouldn’t mind Bobby V. Can you say manager trade?

    • I wonder how long it would take Bobby V to threaten to punch Wilner in the mouth LOL

      • LOL

        The Toronto media would go wild with a clown show.

        I thought the Jays would like Felipe aLOU 10 YEARS AGO AFTER THE EXPOS FIRED HIM.

    • If you want Valentine, then you just need to trade Farrell for something that actually has value and then hire Mr. Valentine – he will be freshly unemployed.

  22. I’d trade the manager and bring in Francona, in a heartbeat.

  23. Can we send Buck and Tabby in any Farrell trade?

  24. bring back cito

  25. John Farrell is a leader of men… he’s the type of guy we want running our team….he’s ….. oh wait, you’ll give me Rubby?


  26. Francona’s only motivation would be to destroy the Sox and Yankees, which sits very well with me… if we can pry him away from a cushy TV job.

  27. I wouldnt miss him hes supposed to be a good pitching coach but look what happened to our pitching staff this yr it got completely dismantled..Not saying its all his fault but makes you wonder if he over used the young arms early..Bring back Cito!!!!

  28. I would be interested in letting Bautista be one of those player/managers.

  29. Oh God it would be lovely. Trade Farrell for something nice and then hire Tito. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to watch the Sux run into outs. And Francona is exactly the kind of manager I think this team needs. He’s relaxed. He knows how to handle all kinds of different players. He’s experienced. He’s been to the show more than once.

    Farrell isn’t a Buck-Martinez-type disaster. But I’m not convinced he’ll ever be the answer for this team. By the way, Stoeten, can the dismissal of the braying herds, willya? I’m part of that braying group and I feel very privileged to be in their company. Someone needs to keep Rogers honest.

    • + 1

    • +3

    • I think Farrell is all those things Francona is, except for the experience part. And of course at one point Tito had no managerial experience either. Like Stoeten pointed out, the thing that might be concerning about this is the optics – you know, Canadian inferiority to Americans, or the Jays getting pushed around by the big market Red Sox – but that would pass in time if we were better on the field than Boston. If Farrell really, truly wants to go there, then let him. Get something for him. Hiring Francona in that instance would be cool.

    • @Isabella


      I do think the Jays profile would be raised across the MLB if they hired Tito.

      Red Sox Jays games would turn into sold out games with fansbashing each others managers.

      Even better would be if Ortiz joined the Jaays & the Dominican power trio of Bautista, Edwin & Ortiz would be the talk of the mlb. Ortiz loves rogers centre

    • Nothing would give you greater pleasure? Have you tried my apple juice?

    • +1 to being part of braaying herds.

      I think Stoeten likes to attack paying customers that support the team financially because casual fans aren’t part of the “hipster geek crowd”

      Stoeten & Parkes were profiled on opening day by the national post or one of the other papers as being part of the new “cool fans” who understood sabematrics etc…

      That’s OK. Thi website is a gret stress reliever after work, & the coverage of the team by Stoeten is superior to most paid journalists.

      The only guy I read seriously is John Lott from national Post.

  30. Why is there even any debate? AA needs to call the Red Sox and start the conversation with Lester or Bucholz and work downwards with the last tradeable asset a bucket of balls. Not sure why there is this love affair with John Farrell. He’s a middling manager at best. He’s bullpen management sucks ass, his lineups are so-so except he puts Lind at clean-up practically everyday. Let him go and bring in Francona. That’ll be step 1 into improving this team in the offseason.

  31. Listen to AA on McCown tonight?

    I conclude Farrell is gone. Asked about Farrell to Sox rumours, AA wouldnt answer on the grounds it was unfair to Valentine. It could only be unfair to Valentine if the Jays are already in negotiations with the Sox.

    Farrell has already avoided a couple opportunities to affirm he wants to stay here to Blair and Howarth.

    Get ready for manager Sal Fasano!!

    • I’d rather see Tito. At least he has loads of experience, and has seen it all. Fasano would need experience as a coach of some form in the MLB first, IMO.

    • I listened to the interview. I got the feeling that AA was being his usual no comment self.

      I think he is waiting to see what the red sox would offer him for farrell. so he won’t close any doors yet.

      I would have thought that farrell & AA would have a close relationship, so would be reluctant to let him go unless farrell told him he will not sign an extension.

  32. if we are going to be serious about contending next year isn’t it time to hire a manager that demonstrates that? enough guys who have never managed before and/or are no-name. it would be nice to have a guy who isn’t making bone headed rookie mistakes. someone with presence/credibility would be nice.

  33. and with a new manager I hope a through review of all coaches

  34. Get Francona in here.

  35. If Boston wants Farrell and Farrell wants to go, fine. If it happens, then I’d like to see Sandy Alomar hired, if he’s still available by that time. He’s most likely the one AA referred to near the end of their search as a guy who’s going to be a great manager but isn’t quite ready. I wish they’d hired him then, but I didn’t have a problem with the choice of Farrell. I now think maybe Farrell wasn’t quite ready himself.

    I agree with those who think it’s time for Murphy to go, and maybe Butter and Pappy too. Bring in Sandy and let him put together his own staff from scratch. They only guy they have now that I like is Lovullo, but if Farrell goes to clean up that mess in Boston, he’ll probably go too.

  36. I don’t understand the love for cletus. Average defensively in CF at best (Rajai and Patterson make anyone look great), he has a poor eye at the plate and doesn’t get on base. Not good defensively and perhaps a slightly above avg OPS = avg CF.

    • 25HR and above average CF defence and doesn’t cost much of anything and is probably injured right now.

      • .517 OPS (small sample) for us last year and .701 (and sinking) this year.

        defensively…he can’t read the ball well off the bat sometimes. if you watch him you can see him get poor jumps at times. i think the Angels have 2-3 (4?) OF better defensively than him

        • Hmmm. Colby is playing hurt so it must affect him at the plate & his runs to get the ball.

          Colby is a pleasure to watch in CF when he is healthy

          • Trout, Bourjos and Gose are a pleasure in CF. Bautista is a pleasure to watch in RF. Colby is nothing special in CF.

          • @cletus Anybody who thinks watching Bautista in RF is a pleasure doesn’t watch outfielders very knowledgeably.

          • you don’t think Bautista is a good RF Mick? give your head a shake bud. he has perhaps the best OF arm i have ever seen. better than Barfield IMO. it is awesome watching someone nail a shot off the wall only to get gunned down with a magnificent throw into 2nd base. or gunned down at 3rd. or home. even the Yanks said he is a game changer in RF

  37. Meh I am far more worried about how much money they’re going to spend this winter in upgrading 3 rotation spots, left field. possibly a right handed dh to platoon with Lind and a second baseman. This team has far bigger fish to fry. Personally I like Farrell a lot and hope he’s not going anywhere. If I were AA I would be adding another year to his contract right now just to shut everyone up if Farrell was willing obviously. Let’s face it, the cost would be something along the lines of a Mathis or McGowan move, less most likely, if the team decided to go in another direction after 2013 which is trivial for a team like the Jays.

    I see no reason to give any help to a bitter divisional rival in calming their clubhouse down and I don’t really see us getting anything back of significance if a trade were to be made. The Jays have the cash to get a similar player and keep a solid manager all on their own. They need to continue building on the foundation they’ve got and not take any more steps back.

    • That’s a good point.

      Apparently Bobby Valentine makes 2 million per year.

      Farrell probaly makes a lot less because of no experience. Maybe 500-750K per year.

      Why not give Farrell 2 years guranteed at 1 million ??

      What would be upsetting is is AA took cheap compensation for Farrell.

      Buckholz + should be the goal for Farrell.

    • Solid manager? I challenge ANYONE to give me anything that shows he’s a good manager. Tell me anything he’s done to help win games.

      • Farrell is open to change more than Cito.

        After 40 game he finally moved Lind out f thecleanup spot.

        Coco was eventually removed from the closer spot after blowing several games .

        Farrell isn’t as dogmatic about protecting vets a Cito was.

        • wow you’re kidding right? comparing farrell to one of the worst managers is not a compliment.

          fyi Lind is STILL in the cleanup spot

          coco should never have been the closer given his declining velocity.

          as I said, give me something he’s actually done which is good

          • i also think Farrell is a negative for in game management. good in the clubhouse, maybe, but he doesnt win any games on the field

          • Lind is in the cleanup spot because no one else is available.

            If Bautista & Lawrie were back, Lind would be 6th .

  38. aahhh that felt good, home run derby in baltimore

  39. Can anyone isolate manager’s calls into an mWAR for us based on situational sucess??? This would prolly stop a lot of our issues with Big Bad John…then we would have an answer not based on drunkenly screaming “where’s Oliver you fuck!!!”

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