Yep. This will have to do. Consider it your Game Threat.

Comments (277)

  1. Where’s the preamble?
    Nevermind, just happy to have a game threat.

    • C’mon Radar give us a preamble. This feels cheap and loveless as it is.

      • Stoeten complains that nobody reads his preamble.So I complain when he doesn’t provide one, just to show him we do read it.
        Reverse psychology or maybe I’m overthinking it.
        Thats way too much information for me to think about.

        My head hurts.

  2. I know it’s early, but I feel like the Sox got burnt on the LA trade. The prospects they got back will be marginal at best, and Loney looks like a waste of skin

  3. What in the fuck are you sending Lind from second?
    Has everbody on this team lost their collective fucking mind?

    • No accountabilty for repeating the same mental mistakes over and over. There have been many times this season that Davis and Lawrie (among others) could have benefited from a day off after a brain fart that cost the team.

      • Totally agree. And I’m a Lawrie fan.

        Lind looks like he’s in a coma.Totally clueless.

        • I am a big Lawrie fan too, but his unrepentant attitude is wearing on me. Someone needs to rein him in.

    • Butter is officially a member of Tank Nation. #10 with upside.

    • Hey no problem with sending Lind but fuck he had time to at least try and make it a run down rather than just running to catcher to be tagged out. Try to knock ball loose at least

  4. I feel alone.

  5. Fuck Cody Ross.

  6. With a strong finish to the season Lind could end up with four months with a .340+ wOBA and a season vs. righties above league average for a DH. I’m kinda warming to the idea of a JPA and Lind platoon for DH next year, with D’Arnaud as catcher. Maybe not idea but I wouldn’t consider it the worst thing in the world

    • I hope Lind finishes strong so we can trade that fuckin idiots useless ass.
      I guess this means I’m off the Lind band wagon.
      That son of a bitch could hit 10 home runs before the end of the season and I’d still trade his piss poor attitude and work ethic.. I’m tellin ya,the fucker is comatose..

      • Wow. This is not a kinder, gentler Radar. I totally agree by the way.

      • Don’t you think that if he had such a poor attitude and work ethic then he wouldn’t have received as much rope as he has over the past few years? I mean, the manager and GM haven’t really punished him much, aside from that brief trip to the minors. But yeah, I guess we would know what his attitude and work ethic is like a lot better than guys that are around him all the time.
        And as for that play at the plate, in that situation you’re running hard until you see the big stop sign from the third base coach. I’m not positive, but I think that play might be Butter’s fault.

        • ’09 and his contract earned him the rope, not attitude and work ethic.

          • I don’t disagree, but a poor work ethic and attitude would have used up that rope a lot quicker, no? I’m not the biggest Lind fan, but him vs righties isn’t terrible.

        • Adam Lind was one AA’s first contract extensions as GM, so I guess he gets more rope.

          I think Adam would benefit from a change of scenery nextyear.

      • It’s Butter’s fault, but Lind would have been out on a little league diamond. Also tired of the Lind experiment, time to move on.

      • It’s also funny that when a guy’s hitting well he looks “locked in” but when he’s struggling he looks like he doesn’t care or is comatose.
        Reverse is true with EE. In past year’s lots of people questioned his work ethic and how much he cared. Now that he’s been good for a year and change no one mentions that, despite the fact his facial expressions haven’t changed much.

      • Trade that mutha before we go through another three years
        of Lind teasing us. He’s back, wait no, he cant hit lefties; he’s back wait no, he took too many ground balls; (1st fuckin time I’ve EVER heard that excuse!); he’s back’ wait no, we’re going to platoon him at DH. Enough already!! The guy had one fluke good year!! Learn from that mistake!!

    • It could, in fact, be the worst thing in the world

  7. gose has good at bats

  8. I’ve been put away. :(

  9. I always get the feeling Nava sucks against any team not from Ontario.

  10. Yescobar is shameless.

  11. Either Stoeten’s Twitter’s be hacked or I’m starting a fucking blog.

  12. “At least we don’t have to cast preseason football”

  13. I just want the protected pick

  14. I’m surprised Butter isn’t waving Gose in from first.

  15. Damn, the kid has wheels…

  16. Lawrie is jacked, even when bunting

  17. Laurie Boo Boo.

  18. Which Toronto Blue Jays player best personifies an actual Blue Jay?

  19. This whole team has had problems with brains. There won’t be a magical orioles type season if the Jays are going to continue making basic mistakes.

    • Lack of smarts or lack of focus?

      • I like his energy, but do you think Lawrie is the type of person who will ever own an error, and learn from it? I have my doubts. His lack of accountability may lead to his own demise.

        • He’s a young’n, I’ve still got tons of hope. However, a bit of contriteness would go a long way.

          • I wish I had your confidence SP, Lawrie has pretty much worn out his welcome for me. My fondness for him is fading fast, given his comments today.

          • I agree w/ Karen, I’m done w/ that turd. He underwhelmed this year w/ the bat and is a totally reckless idiot on the bases.

      • bit of both. With Farrell sometimes I wonder, Butters has had a few mistakes but it happens, and some of the players might not be the brightest (Colby, Lawrie, etc.)

  20. Who’s the pitchers in this game?

  21. Villanueva and John Farrel’s compensation.

    CV is looking very efficient as the game goes on.

    • I am baffled why AA went out to trash Carlos V last week about durability.

      The Jays starting pitching this year has been weak, What’s wrong with signing Carlos V to a 3 year contract when he likes being here.

      he would be very valuable as a swingman once Hutch & Drabek come back.

      AA has not shown any ability to attract a premium starting pitcher, & with Romero being a disaster this year, the Jays need any pitching they can get.

      AA is being penny wise pound foolish. I doubt Carlos would get more than 5-6 million per year.

      AA routinely wastes 4 million every year on a “veteran “reliever like Gregg,FF,Rauch,Coco that routinely falls apart, so why not sign Carlos V?

      I like Carlos V.

      • You do realize the only reason Gregg,FF, Rauch were here was because of draft picks?
        They weren’t part of the big picture.

        • OK to the draft picks but it would be nice to have some decent performance while they are with the Jays.

      • The other thing to consider is there are no guarantees that either Hutch or Drabek perform well when they come back. I wasn’t sold on Drabek to begin with, so having a little insurance in CV seems wise to me. He pitched a good game today.

      • This is not my post. I would never post something as stupid as this. The imposter is attempting to make me look like a fool with ridiculous posts like this.

  22. KJ is about as good as the shitty version of Aaron Hill (but with worse defense)

  23. Buck — I don’t care bout OBP from a catcher, I WANT THE DAMAGE

  24. Meat Mitch BBQ sauce

  25. DelaBear

  26. Adrian Gonzalez up to bat

  27. Bring out the gimp.

  28. Way to go Blunderbar

  29. So the new new Super Pen (not to be confused with the early 2012 Super Pen, or the 2011 Super Pen, or the 2010 Super Pen) blows another one.

    Does anyone else think we’ll just keep spending more and more resources (money and prospects) on the pen and never really solve it? It basically seems to be a black hole at this point.

    • In fairness, Delabar got them out of a pretty big jam in the 8th. I do prefer this pen to past years.

      • D should not start 9th

        • if the jays kept a pitch count during the tv game like most brodcasts, do you would have known that for a reliever he had thrown to many pitches he was about 30 by my count at the game when the disaster set in.

          That is my biggest gripe with the Rogers brodcast, I like knowing pitches thrown thank you, I want a good idea how much longer a pitcher will go. I have to go mlb.com to get that information….

    • AA seems to be obsessed with the bullpen. They have no starting rotation quality other than Morrow & J.A. Happ. The rest are injured. Ricky Romero is close to beating Jo Jo Reyes record of consecutive losses.

      The bullpen is better now, but it doesn’t mean as much if the team is constantly behind in games.

      I hope AA convinces Farrell to use a 4 man bench next year with at least 1 power LH bat. Lind??

      • AA could rebuild the rotation in one off season IF Rogers will spend a bit. He could land 2-3 pretty good free agent starters.

        • If you looked at free agents this year oakville you would know that there are tones of SP but little relievers. why get starters now for a fortune when you can get them cheaper in free agency.

  30. Rally time!

  31. YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

  32. masterful AB by colby

  33. Bailey is a real closer i.e. throws strikes that batters don’t like or can’t hit

  34. Why isn’t jpa playing?

  35. I’m voting Republican, the Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth.

  36. Welp, that was an entertaining athletic contest…

  37. Two more weeks of this and I’m going to need something stronger than alcohol.

  38. Was at the game todat at field level. I dunno what the fuck people are talking about, but CV looked awesome.

      • Alex better be careful. His attempt to drive down Los Del V’s value in order to resign him on the cheap will not go unnoticed by future free agents.

        The word will get out…”Dont sign with that guy, in the last years of your deal he will bad mouth you in order to lower demand and get you on the cheap.”

        For an organization that is worried about what veterans think about them in “promising” certain players to start, this type of behavior is rather at odds with their previous scheme

  39. Must be nice to be Stoeten and get paid to do absolutely nothing most days. However in his defense do any of us really give a fuck anymore about the Jays? Id say likely not.

    Not sure what the fuck anyone and everyone is bitching about here, Carlos looked really good today. At the end of the day he is basically just a 5th starter pitching very slightly above slot at the moment, kind of like Romero was a 4-5 guy pitching like a number two the past few seasons. When the hell did everyone start expecting huge outings out of this guy? He has been on the hot seat to pitch well this season because well… everyone else is either injured or shitty. But seriously… if youre expecting Carlos to magically turn into King Felix its not going to happen so deal with it.

    Moving on,,, does anyone else just LOVE how amusing the Red Sox drama is? Hilarious how Bobby Valentine threw his team under the bus like that when he said it was the worst September roster in history. Honestly, it looks like Valentine and the players would love for the off season to start tomorrow, no one playing with heart or passion, just a really shitty looking team. It makes me laugh.

    • It makes losing two games in a row to them that much sadder.

      • +1.

        Farrell Ball not doing much to impress red sox nation.

        • Yeah the last series where he swept them in Boston doesn’t mean shit either. Where do you come up with this stuff sometimes? 2 very close games decided in the 9th yeah total fail on Farrell.

  40. Well, I see my annointed fukstiks mostly did it again ( i must give some thought to poatatoes narration that there be different degrees of fukstik deprnding on how bad they have become). KJ strikes out looking and eventually his .222 avg gets PH for by Colby who did a SO and earns himeslf 1/3 fukstik status. Davis took his whoop de doo avg of.244 which, BTW seems to be close to his fielding prowess and did nada. Colby has to improve-he shows flashes of brilliance but right now a.230 avg and OBP of ,300 is not acceptable and he gets 1/2 fukstik status. Lind, despite doing marginally better is a full fledged member with fukstik status, which means he has to go for us to be serious about moving forward. Just like in a company, sooner or later the non performers have to be moved out or everyone suffers

    • Fractions have always confused me. I’m talking about simple addition, mr. fukstik. Sorta like ‘one potato, two potato,…’ you get the idea. Now I’m with you on Lind–he’s got lifetime membership with a grandfather clause. He’s in a black hole and not coming back (touch wood!) KJ must have accumulated 2-3 fukstiks by now, and why he’s playing at all with Hech pumped and ready to go is yet another Farrellball mystery. He’s history, no matter how low he sets the bar for returning. As you say, out with the old and tired, in with the new shiny toys. What I’m really hoping for from you is a refinement of the measure ‘fukstik.’ You know, Cory Patterson was 2 ‘fukstiks below replacement,’ while Jayson Nix was only 1 FBR. See what you can do. Cheers.

      • Spud, you really gotta get into this new math, try this, whole numbers cut in half – like a potato. You cut a potato in half – not into two. Then add 1 more potato and suddenly, yeah, a compound fraction. Your on your way now pal

        • That’s not math, that’s home fries.

          • My favorite, homefries, I had some today.Never corrupt them with onions or paprika.
            Just straight out, pan fried homefries.
            You bastards who deep fry them should reconsider what the hell you’re doing. Although even deep fried, homefries are miles ahead of those shitty Tater-Tots.
            Fuck I hate Tater -Tots.Little mush balls with a crust.

  41. RSux mouthpiece WEEI is already embracing their own dreams of draft success – don’t fuck with us Boston, our Tank Nation is better than yours

    http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/09/13/potential-red-sox-first-round-2013-draft-pick-indiana-states-sean-manaea/

  42. oh, and bitching about the call to send Lind home is ridiculous; Butter knows which side of his bread is, umm, buttered – he just vaulted to AA’s No. 1 replacement manager pick.

    #TankNation

    • Butter better be watching Lovullo.

      • I think Wakamatsu’s got his eyes on the prize. He is the bench coach.
        He’s the one who’s been whispering in Farrell’s ear.

        Psst, now’s a good time to steal. Send him. It’s the smart move.Then we’ll get the next guy to bunt. C’mon it’s a good idea.I know the pitcher’s given up 3 walks and hit two batters but he’s gonna throw a strike soon and a bunt would be a surprise to everybody in the park. They’ll think your a genius.
        By the way, when they fire you, do you think they’ll give me your parking spot?

  43. I can be a little more elaborate on what my unprofessional-ly-scouting eyes told me from my vantage point – right behind the TD Comfort Zone – here’s what I picked up from the game, and team, if anyone cares:

    1. Farrell is still fucking stupid. Why you would ask Lawrie to bunt the runners over with Encarnacion on deck, effectively giving up an out and taking the bat out of your best hitters hands simultaneously, I’ll never know.

    2. As I stated above, CV looked nasty. He looked fluid, minimal effort, and sure of himself.

    3. Kelly. Fucking. Johnson. The tv doesn’t lie, he’s that bad. He even took some funny routes to ground balls while on the field.

    4. Rajai Davis looks like he’s guessing half the time, and when he guesses wrong, it’s embarrassing.

    5. Anthony Gose looks fairly good. He looked like he was a major-league batter. His arm is insane, but he looked confused on a couple fly balls (one of which looked routine, but couldn’t tell it was hit lazily).

    6. Moises Sierra looks completely overwhelmed in all facets of the game.

    7. Steve Delabar. When he can throw strikes, his splitter looks insane. That Cody Ross strikeout was lucky, but a severely nasty splitter he threw also. Ross had no chance to even touch it. Shame he gave up the winning run, but the offense as a group was pretty brutal.

    8. Cleatus. Was pumped to see him pinch hit, and was left with most likely the worst at bat of the game. Take the fucking bat off your shoulders will ya?

    Overall though it was an entertaining game to be at, and the seats/view were amazing. If anyone is thinking about getting seats that close – or hasn’t yet – it’s well worth it. Here’s the view I was able to gather my unprofessional-ly intel on (Escobar at the plate with EE at first):

    http://imageshack.us/a/img52/6071/img0786ad.jpg

  44. I think I am getting it. It’s hard for a dog to comprehend “weekend”. but I am getting that on “weekend” people in here actually drink. More fun for all.

    • You are obviously a very blessed, ancient cur indeed. Most smelly old dogs at this point have been long forgotten; no dinner, no walkies, no fetch the ball. No fun. And then to make matters worse, Master gets told by Mistress that he’s in the dog house now, and wouldn’t you know it, all of a sudden you have nowhere to sleep. Life sucks big time.

  45. Well what a joke this team has become. The team is now mostly healthy yet we just dropped 4/5. 3 more 1 run losses.

    Butter sends lind and gets thrown out by 20 feet. Fucking embarassing.

    So much for this championship bullpen that just lost 2 games in the 9th to a last place team.

    Fire this entire coaching staff. Maybe keep luvullo he seems badass.

    Trade lawrie and rasmus asap while they still have value.

    get rid of rajai and kj asap.

    If alex comes back with this same sad sack lineup, it will be a total disaster.

  46. if you remove the 9-19 record in august the jays are 56-60

  47. If we foregt the whole fuckin season they are 0-0. If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle
    IF Kelly Johnson wasn’t a full fledeged fukstik at -3.0 FBR………( fukstiks below replacement)

  48. I never meant to be so bad to you
    One thing I said that I would never do
    A look from you and I would fall from grace
    And that would wipe the smile right from my face

  49. Hope CV continues to finish strong. I hope AA’s public stance regarding CV has been a lot of misdirection more than anything else otherwise I think he’s making a very large mistake. As I posted the other day the teams position regarding his stamina is a bunch of BS. Yes he might not last a full 200 IP next year but big fucking deal. They will have Drabek and Hutchison both back by September when CV would likely be out of innings if all goes well and possibly before that. So they basically have 2 possible replacements all lined up before next year even starts which would cover 2013 nicely.

    As for his performance he’s easily been the 2nd best starter on the team this year hands down of any of the pitchers, even before some of them got injured. They were probably going to have to shut down Hutchison early at some point if he had a successful year, so how the fuck is CV’s situation any different?

    Rany Jazayerli wrote a great article about pitcher innings limits over at Grantland earlier in the week. It’s well worth the read for a couple of reasons but I think it applies to CV’s situation rather favourably because of his age in this case and the very fact that he’s thrown so few innings previously. In addition to that, teams are far more likely to be careful with his workload going forward.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8369941/history-shows-washington-nationals-shut-stephen-strasburg-too-soon

    One interesting comp people should look at is CJ Wilson. You know the guy that was a former closer for Parkes 2nd favourite team and has been generally excellent as a starter for the last 3 years? In 2009 he threw 73.2 innings at age 28 and the next year jumped to 204 innings in 2010 followed up by 223.1 in 2011. He’s on pace for his third 200 inning season this year. Over the last 3 years as a starter he’s been worth 13.3 fWAR. In 2010, his first season as a starter, he put up an fWAR of 4.6 and followed that up in 2011 with an fWAR of 5.9. For 2012 he might be able to scratch out a 3 fWAR year. Not elite, but not a stinker either, especially if you’re using the $5.5 million a year per fWAR for free agents.

    The jump in innings from 2009 to 2010 for Wilson was bigger than I expected when I went and looked at the stats but he certainly didn’t have any problems especially for the 2 seasons after the switch to starter. CV is on pace to finish with roughly 130 IP this year if he goes 6 innings in his last 2 starts. A jump to 160 or 170 IP shouldn’t be a huge stretch especially if he continues to prepare for a starting role over the winter. He also compares very nicely to Wilson with his peripherals. Wilson averaged a K rate of 7.8 per 9 IP over his 3 years as a starter along with a 3.64 BB per 9 IP. CV is at 8.42 K/9 and 2.31 BB/9 this year. On the down side, Wilson has a much better HR/9 at 0.63 to CV’s 1.27.

    With the HR/9 likely to raise his FIP and therefore hold his WAR back slightly he could possibly make some of it up with the better peripherals. That said, CV’s fWAR still has the potential to be somewhere in the same ballpark and if you use xFIP CV actually would come out ahead because of the normalized HR rate it uses. I think it would be safe to argue CV could be something like 3-4 fWAR starter over a full season and possibly more.

    Looking back over the last couple of years there isn’t too many Jays starters that can say that. Considering he doesn’t have the pedigree of a traditional free agent starter the Jays are (or is that were now?) likely going to be able to snap up CV at a very decent price for very little risk. Short of adding 2 more starters via trade or free agency, the Jays depth situation isn’t going to be all that strong until the end of 2013 and beyond.

    A 2 year investment plus an option would be totally prudent and most likely very cost effective compared to what they are likely going to have to pay a free agent starter. Using Edwin Jackson as an example, his 3.8 fWAR netted him $11 million as a 27 year old. I don’t think anyone is envisioning paying CV nearly that much per year. Why on earth wouldn’t AA take a risk on getting similar performance for likely 50-60% of the price?

    Even if Drabek and Hutchison are back within 12 months you always hear that everything isn’t really back until the 2nd year post TJ surgery. Signing CV ASAP allows you the luxury of pushing Alvarez or Happ down the depth chart for one more year and adds a measure of protection if, god forbid, he can’t swing a trade or sign another free agent. The fact is, the kind of performance CV has put up is going to cost you $10 million a year on the open market for an established starter. With additional holes to fill at LF, 2nd and possibly DH why not be efficient with the money in CV’s case?

    • A hell of a post, man. Why not indeed? I too feel AA must have this covered, and is just blowing smoke. Fingers crossed, as Bwana is want to say.

    • Novel post…I also hope AA and the boys took a good look at the empty seats during this homestand. Its a little abstract for Managment to understand perhaps, but those empty seats are lost revenues. Contending teams, and in almost all cases that would be teams that have higher payrolls, don’t see those empty seats.
      Spud, do that new math thing now would ya

      • You hit the nail on the head regarding attendance. I think for a city so starved for even a whiff of contention, attendance would explode down the stretch for a Jays team actually in the hunt for a playoff spot.

        The thing is, the fans took the first step by increasing attendance by a very healthy margin this year just on the potential alone in this team. I sure hope Rogers lives up to their end of the bargain and puts out this winter in a corresponding manner.

        Personally, I still have doubts about how much Rogers is actually going to increase spending this winter. I still think even when you factor in the extra amount they’ve spent on other things like scouting and amateur talent the last 3 years they’ve been below average in the majority of the years of Rogers ownership.

        • You mean 12 years of gutting the team hasn’t convinced you yet that rogers has no intention of ever spending?

      • Don’t know much about geometry
        Don’t know much trigonometry
        Dont’ know much about algebra
        Don’t know what a slide rule is for…

    • Nice analysis and bang on. The announcement that CV had been resigned should have been made a month ago.

  50. OH wait I get it now!

    Farrell’s intentionally coaching this series as badly as he can so that Red Sox Nation will stop leaving messages on his phone.

  51. Know what I just realized is gonna happen and totally suck?

    The jays are gonna be really good next year, and all of a sudden parkes will pretend hes their biggest fan again. Bandwagoner.

  52. I love the way wilner defended lawrie by saying he’s only 22 and hasn’t played a full season yet. huh? you mean he didn’t play in the minors? and isn’t this little league stuff? and then lawrie has the balls to say he did nothing wrong. what an asshole. people need to understand this wasn’t a mistake of aggression, it was a mistake of arrogance. This guy is an arrogant sob who thinks he doesn’t have to play by any rules. Didn’t he have the same problems in milwaukee where he didn’t listen to the coaches? It’s only a matter of time before he takes a cheap shot at another team and get’s his ass kicked.

    • +1.

    • If you’re referring to what Zaun showed on the pregame show on tv Saturday that illustrated exactly what an idiot Lawrie is (or has become) by ignoring what (Zaun explained) is a basic base-running rule that you DON’T go from second to third on a groundball that crosses your path, for ridiculously obvious reasons, I agree.

      And of course, Lawrie was thrown out at third and that was that. (And maybe you’re talking about another play – I dunno, watching the games off and on lately.) But the worst of it was then seeing Lawrie justify it by saying that he’s always played like that and he always will. Which made me hope that somebody sits his butt down in the video room and forces him to watch that play – and maybe any other boneheaded plays he’s been involved in – over and over interspersed with the video of him saying that he’s “always played like that …” … until he gets it.

      But I dunno. He could be a good player – maybe very good – but not if he’s so dumb that he can’t understand why the basics of the game are what they are.

      • Some days I wonder about this site…you are lucky to have a talent like Lawrie. He is over aggressive, and that will change. Some of his fuck-ups may be related to coaching issues. Fuck at 22 there are young men (boys) riding motorcyle like jack-asses and killing themselves. There are way bigger issues on this team than Brett Lawrie, he’s not on my top 10 list of what’s wrong with this team

        • I agree. There’s a reason that you see more Lawrie jerseys in the stands than pretty much all the rest combined, and it’s not just that he’s Canadian (don’t remember seeing too many Cory Koskie jerseys do you?). This kid has talent and he plays an amped up game. Sure he needs some maturing and learning from his mistakes will go a long way but I would take him over most of the third basemen in the league.

        • I like Lawrie a lot. But all that talent won’t get him as far as it could unless he learns to think as well as just react.

  53. So the second to last jays talk caller today owned little Mikee wilner.

    He basically complained that the jays claim to not know whether carlos can handle a true starters work load, yet then, when they have a chance to observe him late in games, they fucking yank him prematurely…its a self fulfilling prophecy.

    He asked wilner why they’d yank him today after 87 pitches after a lead off walk in the 8th.

    wilner claimed it was because it was the ninth hitter and you NEVER walk the 9th hitter. (as an aside, if a caller ever made such a comment about NEVER walking the 9th hitter wilner would have told them to never use the term never because they are almost never right in doing so…)

    The caller then said that its more important to evaluate they player going forward than it is to win a meaningless game. Wilner disagreed…justifying his disagreement with nothing.

    he made excellent points and wilner had no real answer other than “so.

    • The point was CV dosen’t have the innings cause he started in the pen. He didn’t get starts till June. It has nothing to do with CV getting yanked. I think you missed the point, that caller wasn’t listening either. Wilner was right.

      • not talking about innings. that was a side point right at the end.

        they were mostly discussing letting him go deep into games as the season has worn on. Yesterday was a prime example..he was under 90 pitches and breezing…so he walks the lead off batter? who cares? see what comes next. anyone could walk one hitter..you miss the point. its not about total innings…its also about working deep into games.

        you cant tell me that after all his starts, carlos isn’t stretched out enough to throw more pitches?

        • I will say it again. Wilner does not know the game of baseball. He has never played at an elite level and is just a mouth piece for Rogers Corp to fill air time. That is what the Blue Jays are becoming folks. Air time filler for Rogers stations.

          • Wilner was an all star in the Mississauga co – ed softball league.

            The caller was right about not letting Carlos pitch into the 8th inning.

            AA’s attack on Carlos V is weird. AA ususally goes out of his way to say nice things about every player.

            “Sam Dyson.. best stuff in the organization”

            Carlos V must have turned down AA’s offer of an extension.

        • Ok, CV starts the inning by walking the 9th hitter, let him pitch to the next 2 lefthanders comming up – remembering that the best part of the BJ’s is the Bullpen. So with a little hindsight, you are the Coach now…how do you want to be wrong CV gets rocked in the 8th, or the dencent Bullpen you have blows it. I beleive this was the point. Yep, CV could K the next 3 guys and you are right, but I doubt it

    • I thought at the time that Carlos should have been pulled as well, not because of any fear that he was in danger of blowing it, but because they have a SHIT TONNE of relievers crowding that pen in need of regular work. It was a perfect “teachable” moment for Loup to be that lefty specialist, to come in and get his guy late in a game. I think that is why Farrell spent some time talking to Carlos rather than just taking the ball: “hey, this is not about you, this is about properly using the rest of this season for evaluation, I didn’t need to see any more out of you today, you gave me a great outing, head up, Carlos, great job today”. Just my thought on the issue – don’t think Carlos needs any stretching out at this point, it is all irrelevant as long as his gave him 6+ yesterday.

  54. I have a question, for AA when and other GM’s with regard to inning counts. I am curious about the use of inning counts for guys like CV and other pitchers. My reasoning is this, an inning where a pitcher 9 pitches and one where 30 pitches are thrown cannot be gauged on the same level. IE the 30 pitches may cause more or less arm issues than the 30. My question is why do they use a faulty evaluator like innings pitched, when including side sessions, bp sessions and in game sessions, they can properly gauge the number of pitches thrown and the stress that can have on the arm as opposed to another. The reason I think of this is some games a pitcher goes all 9 innings and pitches 97 pitches another game they go 6 and pitch 117 those innings are not equally relative. As well by looking at pitches thrown and the type of pitches thrown you can also better assess there arm durability if they continue to throw a nasty curve for 50 innings.

    • and not when.

      as opposed to innings not another.

      I wish I edited that before posting it is in need of , and I cannot edit after of well. C’est la vie.

    • Short answer to your question.
      All pitchers have innings where they throw 30 pitches and some where they throw 9 pitches.Normally it will average out to 12 to 15 pitches per inning,so they count innings pitched in games.
      Innings pitched from year to year corelate to the “Verducci effect” ( if you believe the theory)and stress on the arm.Counting pitches during the game corelates to arm tiredness rather than injury.
      Side sessions,bp sessions,warm ups aren’t really the same as game situations.
      Different pitches do produce different stresses on the shoulder and elbow but you have to be aware of micro managing your pitchers and babying them.
      In the era of sabermetrics you can overthink it.
      Sometimes they just gotta go out there and pitch.

  55. Wliner is Wilner. He’s trying to make a living and sometimes isn’t that good at it. AA dissing CV is not a good omen. Teams that want to be be player friendly or attract FAs this offseason rarely if ever diss their roster publicly. What is AA thinking? Is he being honest in that he really isn’t sold on CV’s durability? Maybe he is. Or is he really intending on signing him but wants to cut him down a bit to save a few bucks? Maybe, unlikely but if he is, that’s not a good tactic for FAs and others to witness being played out in the media. AA has developed a persona of silence and that has really been one reason I like the guy…he respects the players and does the baseball work with baseball colleagues, not through the media like JP. People in baseball respect that approach to doing business. But the CV issue is a departure and I’m wondering how much the “parameters” have to do with this OR is he just being honest? I hope CV stays but it’s not looking like that now.

    • There’s always the possibility that CV is being totally unreasonable in his demands, and hasn’t exactly been shy about voicing his expectations publicly. Maybe AA is getting fed up and fighting fire with fire (not that his comments were even that negative). Regardless of CV’s feelings, he CAN’T say with certainty how he’d fare for 200+ innings because, like AA said, he’s never done it. That’s nobody’s opinion, it’s just reality that can’t be ignored. If this hurts CV’s feelings he needs to get real. I think he’s worth the risk though, and I hood they get a deal done.

      • Who is CV’s agent. That might have something to do with it.

        • Baseball-Reference.com says he’s represented by SFX. I don’t know if that implies anything here, but I doubt it does.

      • I “hood” they get a deal done too ;). If CV is viewed as a #5 starter, the rotation must be pretty solid.

        • problem is they are all number 5 starters aside from morrow. they have depth of middling starting pitchers. that is really not depth. its like having a deep bench only because the starters suck so they are easily replaced by equally sucky bench players.

      • It’s doubtful he’d make it to 200 innings in 2013 anyway. Again there are plenty of comps for guys that have made the jump and young starters make the jump from 120-130 innings to the 180-200 range all the time. It’s a total BS excuse.

        It’s starting to make me wonder that the club is going to be tight on the payroll again and we’ll be stuck with Happ and Alvarez in the 4 and 5 slots with little depth behind them for most of the year. Of course we’ll have to wait and see what Rogers does spending wise but I just can’t think of another logical reason for not extending CV now. As of yesterday CV has the most innings per start among Jays starters this year and it’s not his fault he wasn’t given more innings this year. Quite frankly having Happ and Alvarez in the 4 and 5 slots doesn’t fill me with a lot of confidence. Both are entirely far too inconsistent and haven’t shown they can pitch as well as Villanueva over the long haul. Throw out the last 3 starts from 2011 when CV tried to pitch injured and he’s complied a pretty impressive 20+ starts since 2011.

        • Well it would be a BS excuse if not for the fact that CV got hurt on a starter’s workload last year, which I think makes it a more valid concern.

          That being said, CV himself has said he didn’t prepare himself for a starter’s workload that offseason, and did this past offseason. He was saying it back in spring training. So far I’d say his results support that and I’d be inclined to take the risk on him. That being said, CV shouldn’t pretend that there isn’t an element of risk, because he’s never done what he’d be asked to do as a full time starter.

          • I still think that for a guy that’s had one forearm injury in 7 big league seasons he is getting a bum deal and being tarred as some injury prone starter.

            I mean just look at all the love a guy like Marcum got when he was here. He was far more injury prone and his stuff was even softer than CV’s.

            Looking at everything equally it’s a BS narrative the team has laid on him right down to Farrell’s assertion that he’s just a 6 inning pitcher. Again go back and look at the average innings per start from any of the Jays starters this year and CV has the highest yet there’s not one word about any of the others losing their edge later in the game.

            The way to treat CV going into 2013 is the same way you’d treat a young pitcher increasing his innings load. Sure you’re technically paying more for those innings than a young starter but you’re getting more with his experience.

            Again there’s guys like Wilson and Sale as prime examples of two good relievers making a larger jump in innings without any adverse effects. Wilson went from 73 in 2009 to 204 in 2010. Sale 71 in 2011 to 175 this year. CV is going to have close to 130 after this season. 170-180 in 2013 wouldn’t be a huge jump by comparison.

            Oh one more example is Jeff Samardzija. 88 innings to 174 this year.

        • I agree that not being able to pitch 200 innings is complete horseshit. One theory is to let him get 150 innings as a starter, then move him to the pen to manipulate his innings count. There’s other ways to get around it, but I believe it’s easier to move from starter to the bullpen, rather than working on stretching out, but what do I know.

    • +1.

      It looks like AA has snapped again. He did it last year when he mentioned payroll parametrs after being houded after the winter meetings.

      The fact is that the pressure is building on AA to field a competitive team.

      it’s not his fault because of Rogers payroll parameters but there is only so much a young GM can spin.

      • Yup, you nailed it Oakville.
        AA ready for a nervous breakdown. Soon he’ll be in a corner, in the fetal position, sucking his thumb.

        Jeez,you can’t be fucking serious.Your hatred of Rogers is clouding your common sense.

        • LOL! Radar.

          Firstly, you have to admit that AA is the master of spin & rarely if ever says anything bad about any Jays player especially one who is about to become a free agent.

          I understand that AA may want to talk down the price of CarlosV, but the Jays go out of their way to be sen as free agent friendly.

          They let Overbay & John Buck get extra playing time when they were about to become free agents even though JPA & Lind were waiting to fill their spots.

          Trash talking Carlos V when the team is desperate for pitching is foolish.

          AS a loyal flexpack holder who spends 2K a year on the Jays , I am tired of watching weak teams. Injuries were very bad this year, but the team wasn’t ready in April with starting pitching.

          Frankly, if Rogers were honest & told the fans they have absolutely no intention of spending more than 100 million to field a competitive team, I would respect that.

          As a former Expos fan, I knew that the team did not have the finances to field competitive teams, so I enjoyed watching the young players.

          • Great comment Oakville.
            Didn’t really explain how AA has succumbed to the pressure and has lost his mind.
            Get past the rhetoric and address the point you made.

        • @Radar
          AA’s comments about payroll parameters after the winter meetings where he failed to acquire any free agents were widely covered.

          It was a candid admission that he couldn’t acquire the players he needed to compete.

          Beeston piped in with a demand that fans show up BEFORE Rogers did anything about free agents.

          AA admitted after the failure to acquire Darvish that they weren’t even close in the bidding.

          This year after Hutch got hurt, AA was in the press box & it looked like he was ready to cry.

          AA has gained a lot of weight in the last 2 years, probably related to the stress of trying to compete & having to listen to stories from Beeston.

  56. Dillon: You’re a correct. AA wasn’t really negative but he was questioning the durability of CV publicly. It’s true that AA is not suggesting that CV robs banks or something on his off days but in terms of CV’s work or future work, that’s not exactly saying I faith in ya or others should have faith in ya is it? And, you’re right, maybe, behind the scenes, CV is asking entirely too much and AA can’t let that go and needs to “remind’ CV and the fans about the durability issue. To me it seems a bit strange because up until now, AA has been silent on such matters and it’s a departure from his established MO. It may very well be that CV is asking for too much money without a starter’s track record, so we have to give AA the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    • He wasn’t even questioning it really. He was just stating the FACT that CV has never done what he’d be asked to do as a full time starter. It would be foolish to pretend that there is no risk there. If CV believes he can do it that’s great, but he doesn’t really know any better than AA does because of the FACT he’s never done it.

      It’s a contract negotiation not a love-in. I agree it’s out of character for AA, but only if you focus on the negative half-sentence in what was otherwise a glowing endorsement of CV’s history with the team.

  57. Please, no more Buck and Pat.

  58. This sun issue effectively turns Sierra into the outfielder’s equivalent of a LOOGY.

  59. Holy shit, is this not the most laughable lineup ever constructed? We have 8/9 hitters with sub .300 obp and 5/9 with slug under .400. could be a no hitter today. The jays are actually charging admission to see this AAA lineup? Why farrell thinks it’s wise to put the entire bench in the game at the same time?

  60. Down goes the face-pulling dwarf.

  61. This team just flat out sucks

    • Yes but they will magically be contenders in ’13 or so I’m told.

      • It won’t be magical Tom.Although it may seem so to you.
        There’s only one crazy asshole commenter who has predicted that the Jays will be playing for a playoff spot in Sept. of 2013.
        That’s me.
        I’m loathe to make such a prognostication, but I’ll open myself up to the ridicule.

        • There you go taking all the credit again Radar. Scooch over, will ya?

        • …but Beeston said so “2 or 3 times in (now) 4 years”!!

          • It’ hasn’t been 4 years since he said that.

            If you’re gonna whine,at least get it straight.

          • Sorry RADAR, I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t whining, just sarcastic referencing of Beeston’s “2-3 times in the playoffs in the next five years” statement from last year…for it to be true, they now have only the next four years to accomplish the feat.

          • @ Pudge

            NP
            Reread your comment,my misinterpretation.

            Still i think a lot can happen in the next 4 years.I can understand the reason for the sarcasm.

      • How soon you all forget April and May.

        There’s not a whole lot of incentive for these players to be trying right now.

        That is, if their name isn’t Carlos Villanueva. Or Adam Lind. Or Kelly Johnson.

  62. Colby Ross lol

  63. Old guys rule!

  64. lol took the words right out of my mouth SP

  65. Vizquel might as well underhanded that thing to first

  66. Who wants a stogie?

  67. Note to AA: That Farrell for Bard deal might have to be re-thought. Hold out for Rubby De La Rosa.

  68. I haven’t played organized baseball in over 12 years.

    Lind’s swings against lefties reminds me of those rare occassions I hit the batting cages and turn the machine to the top speed…not pretty.

  69. Casey slices and dices…OOOOOOH YEAH!

  70. It just wasn’t ‘my funny Valentine’s’ day. Or year.

  71. Zaun calls Vizquel a, “first-ballot Hall of Famer.”
    I beg to differ.

  72. funny wilner is now begging for callers to call in. oh how the tides have turned

  73. We won……you son of a bitches.

  74. Snider update:

    in 106 abs with Pirates

    .255 .339 .349, .688 OPS, 1 HR

    Really slowed down after that hot start.

    • one HR. D’oh. He’s about to embark on an Eric Hinske-style career.

    • It should be obvious to anyone who pays attention that the fault is not with Travis, but with how the Pittsburgh Pirates are using him. Instead of putting this young godling in the middle of their batting list like they should, they insist on batting him in the second position, or worse, putting young Travis on the bench where he sits until he is called upon to pinch hit for some pitcher like today. This is not a proper utilization of young Travis’ magnificent skills. If he would only be allowed to assume a position every day in the middle of the batting list I have no doubt that he would have many, many home runs and would be taking his rightful place among the greats of the game.

      • Stop it. He s Hinske Jr. Just admit it man….

      • For your sake, oakville real or unreal, I hope one day Travis finally whispers to you to assume a position, and teaches you how meats don’t clash.

      • @fake oakville69. That’s not my post.

        My point is that the Jays should have let Travis play LF every day with occasional starts for rajai davis..

        If he is still bad at the end of year, they could have traded him for a middle reliever anyway.

        At least the Jays would know once and for all what they have.

        AA wasted 2 months with Thames , then uses Rajai who makes dumb plays in the field & on the basepaths,

        Rajai is only useful as a late inning pinch runner.

        • So they knew what they had in Thames? You’re fine with assuming he sucks right off the hop but we should give Snider years to prove he hasn’t improved a lick at the plate? Okay then…

          The fake Oakville posts make more sense half the time.

  75. Hech is gonna be a heck of a player.

  76. Was at the game 2 rows behind the bjs dugout – great game great day – found out alverez is a dick – Omar and Ricky can’t play ball no more but are nice guys – think I got a pic of Omar’s last MLB RBI – was gonna post pics but can’t figure this iPhone thingy

  77. Grass, man, grass!!

    2013, the Jays should at least have 1 two-week or 10-day homestand with grass field (like the temporary soccer fields that get put in). That might be a nice attendance boost for the novelty. Give it a try, Rogers!!

    http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/766671–the-green-green-grass-of-dome

    • Sort of the same-ish topic: Does anybody know of a time lapse online of the dome switching from baseball to football? I’ve never seen any footage of how the seating changes.

    • Why is there this belief that grass is some magical plant that will bring the fans in droves? Is it because Lawrie would play second base on it?

      • The grass is not just for fans visual enjoyment, I can obviously watch grass grow anywhere. It is to get the best product on the field; eliminate a negative to free agents coming and existing players staying – there are enough grumblings that the turf field is an impediment to attracting and keeping star players, especially those with even the slightest of knee/leg issues.

        As the guy in the article states (and of course, major grain of salt given that his business is selling grass to Rogers Centre) “The Blue Jays came to us to see how they could put real grass in,” Ron Schiedel said from the Cambridge farm on Monday.

        “The players won’t come to play for Toronto because they’ve got fake grass. The fans have gotten on management about it. Only two fields in all of baseball play on plastic.”

        ONLY TWO FIELDS IN ALL OF BASEBALL PLAY ON PLASTIC – why not be the innovator who actually invests in having top notch real grass like at Wembley, etc. They boast of having 60 sporting events last year and 8 weeks of concerts – RC has 81 baseball games, 10 football games, a couple of soccer matches per year and yet claim they can’t run a mult-purpose venue with grass. HOW THE FUCK DOES WEMBLEY DO IT THEN??

  78. The fuck you can’t grow grass at Rogers Centre:

    http://www.sglconcept.com/en/

    • @DM thanks for the info.

      I wonder if grass could be grown indoors in the Rogers Centre with the dome closed in Winter?

      I also like the idea of having grass for 10 day homestands. Extra revenues could outweigh the costs.

      If the Argos get kicked out of Rogers Centre, where do they go?

  79. The nervous countdown until AAA affiliates are announced is on!

    Let’s go Buffalo Blue Jays ( errr- Bisons)!

    Long term, the Jays actually should be buying their affiliates to control locations. It makes so much sense, especially after the success Vancouver has had. I mean, the club can move cities up or down affiliates as needed. Maybe Vancouver could be switched to Double A and Ottawa picked up as a low or high A team. It’s a shame Lansing has a team but London is left out with that gorgeous Labatt Park. Maybe we should all go in and buy some low A team and move it ourselves to put pressure on the Jays ;)

  80. Read this last night, from Chisholm’s notes:

    “The biggest issue is the couple of hops Gose goes through after he catches the ball and prepares to release the ball. The same could be said for Sierra, who also is going through a similar issue.

    “What they’re currently doing, typically what you do is when you receive a ball on the ground, you’re receiving it as you’re stepping to the ball with your glove foot,” Farrell said.

    “Then in a matter of one step you’d like to see the ball in flight. But there’s a crow hop involved almost like they’re crow hopping to long toss. It’s taking an above-average arm and playing down a full grade on a scouting scale.”"

    So, this leads me to wonder:

    How in the world does a guy get all the way through the minor league system with what appears to be a major flaw in a very basic element of the game? I mean, is this not what the minor leagues is for? Surely someone had to have seen this at some level and tried to address it, no?

    • Your exactly right! I suspect its time to take a little inventory on all their minor league coaching because these guys are showing up with some pretty quirky habits and flaws in the fundamentals.

  81. Our glorious leader Chief Drunk is quoted in the Star today.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/1257592–bird-s-eye-view-of-blue-jays-from-comfort-of-in-stadium-hotel

    it’d be nice if they could spell his name properly. What ever happened to proof reading?

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