I’m surprised his readers found anything to talk about this week *COUGH* but apparently they did, because here we’ve got yet another Griff Bag– aka Richard Griffin’s reader mail bag from over at the Toronto Star. Commence hijacking!

As always, I have not read any of Griffin’s answers.

If there’s a question you’d like me to answer, submit it to Griffin here, and maybe he’ll select it for a future mail bag. Fingers crossed!

Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,

As a former PR director, what do you think of the way the Escobar press conference was handled?

 Why not release Escobar? It sends a message and dumps the contract of a player who just sabotaged his own trade value.

Nigel Tufnel, Toronto

Well, first let’s just say, it’s like, how much more black could this season be? And the answer is none. None more black.

But let’s not go entirely fucking nuts here. Yes, the press conference smelled the glove, and it was like the participants turned the mixed messaging dial up to eleven, which helped nobody, but I think releasing Escobar kind of entirely misses the point. I’ll put this as succinctly as I can, because I think I’ve said more than enough about this issue by now, but almost as appalling as the phrase itself that Escobar wrote is the fact that he saw so little wrong with it. The Jays had to make the choice: do they punish him as a hateful bigot, in which case releasing him would be warranted, or do they punish him as somebody with horrible judgement who needs to be educated as to why such language is so hurtful. It’s easy to insist that ought to have been self-evident, but you don’t have to look far back into our own culture’s past to understand it’s more complicated than that, or to envision a time where too many of us would have also though such words relatively benign.

Yes, it requires some benefit of the doubt to be given to Escobar, but I don’t think that’s unreasonable given what we’ve heard from many Latino players and figures in the game, and ultimately, I think the Jays were right in interpreting this as a moment to forward education and awareness, and that a knee-jerk reaction wouldn’t have served anybody, unless it had been far more evident that Escobar’s words were hate-driven, or there wasn’t such linguistic and cultural ambiguity on the subject.

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,

I have a question about next year’s schedule. Have you looked at it and seen how bad the draws are for the weekend games? I live three hours away and my buddies and I usually go see about three series a year always on weekends since we live out of town. Usually try and see games with good crowds, Yanks, Boston, Tigers or good teams like the Angels or Phillies. Next year the Yanks and Sox only come in April (for a weekend).

The only good draw from May to Auguest is Texas. (Rays are boring to watch as a Jays fan). 23 per cent of all home weekend dates are against the Orioles (no thanks, despite this year’s run). Do the Jays have any say in these matters? I don’t like their chances of getting me to the park much next year due to this sched and my guess is that the team still two years away from contention but that is a whole other area of frustration.

Thanks,

Scott Sauve, North Bay

I don’t think the Jays have a lot of direct say in the matter. They can let their preferences be known, and I think they can be accommodated to a degree, but the schedule is a big and complicated thing, and it’s impossible for it to please everybody. Last year they were able to get Philadelphia in for Canada Day, in order to make up for the games lost to the G20, and this year, when all is said and done, there will have been four weekend home series with the Yankees and Red Sox. Next year it looks like there’s a little more acknowledgement of Canadian holidays than we’re used to, so I guess you’ll just have to take comfort in that.

I understand, though, that it’s a way less enjoyable experience at the Rogers Centre when the crowd is tepid, so I perhaps your best bet is simply to hope the club is actually pretty good, and that attendance follows. It’s not impossible– they’re already more talented than Baltimore (well… OK, maybe Machado and Bundy change that), and the fucking O’s look like they’re headed to the damn playoffs. And there’s no reason to believe the Jays won’t get better still. It could happen.

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Q-Hi Rich Stoet,

Is it just me that notices that Miguel Cabrera of Detroit is close to the Triple Crown? He is first in average, RBI and second in HRs. I haven’t seen a word written. This is a major achievement if he does it. I can only think of Carl Yastrzemski of Boston that won it a long time ago. Do you have a list of players who have achieved this milestone?

Dave Mulholland, Scarborough

Seriously Dave? Did you send this message by passenger pigeon or are you not on a damn computer? They have the internet on computers these days, I’ve heard. Look it up.

Yes, Cabrera is in the Triple Crown conversation, and it’s quite the novel achievement, despite the fact that RBIs are pretty meaningless (he wouldn’t be in the conversation without Austin Jackson hitting so well in front of him, and others likely would have been in the conversation in previous years with a player of Jackson’s calibre hitting in front of them, so what that’s supposed to tell us about Cabrera’s worth, I do not know). It’s such a revered thing that some people even think Cabrera is a better MVP choice than Mike Trout. Not so. So, so, so, so not so.

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Q-Thank you for your thoughtful article on Escobar’s punishment. I am glad the team is taking this seriously. I find his punishment satisfactory but I would like to see one thing added.

 Make him walk onto the pitcher’s mound with a microphone and have him state his apology directly to the crowd before he can play again. That would have meaning.

Richard Paris, Cripple Creek, CO

Then put him in stocks! And hand out rotten tomatoes to the first 10,000 fans!

Yeah… I don’t know.

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,

While Brett Lawrie has real talent, and was a breath of fresh air when he first arrived, there seems to be reasons to be concerned. As the season has progressed the 110 per cent enthusiasm he showed earlier is turning more and more to arrogance, bad judgement and in some cases petulance. I know it’s early days but maybe someone should remind him that he is not exactly Scott Rolen yet. Should we be concerned?

Frank Taker, Ottawa

Well… part of it is perception. It’s hard to see warts when a kid puts up MVP-like numbers in his first stint in the Majors, while being sucked off constantly by the TV broadcast team and nearly every single goddamn ad produced by the club’s marketing department, whose boundless cynicism insisted we be reminded at every turn that this 21-year-old should ascend to a extra special secret tier of adulation, off-limits to even the likes of run-of-the-mill superstars like Jose Bautista, because of his birth certificate.

The warts were indeed there, but it’s definitely easier to see them now– so much so that I wonder if the pendulum of public opinion hasn’t swung back a little too hard the other way. Some of the mistakes Lawrie makes are simply part of being a young ballplayer, especially one under so much scrutiny, thanks to his club’s insistence that he be a focal point. Even the mistakes that concern me most– the recklessness he sometimes exhibits on the field and his seeming inability to quite own up to his own poor judgement– can be reasonably chalked up to an immaturity that one would expect to dissipate over time.

Honestly, what I’m more worried about is why the hell his walk rate has fallen by nearly half compared to last year’s spectacular stint. In 2012 he’s walked only nine times more than 2011… in nearly three hundred more plate appearances. The power hasn’t been the same either, but I’m not nearly as concerned about that as I am the approach. Though that too, one might suspect, could be an effect of having all that smoke blown up his ass.

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Q-Richard Stoeten,

Two part question with a similar theme. It seems that there have been a number of baserunning and fielding gaffes this year that have left John Farrell with a confused or exasperated look. 
Combined with the recent Lawrie post-game comments that seemed to contradict Farrell’s take on baserunning, it appears that Farrell is not completely in control of this young team – from Sierra’s goofy fielding, Lawrie/Davis/Rasmus running into outs, Escobar still fighting with umpires, Romero’s… well, whatever is wrong with Romero. Here are the questions:
 Is this a Bosox clubhouse in the making in its lack of discipline?
 Is this lack of a firm hand the major difference between the young O’s and the young Jays?

Andrew Ponsford, Surrey, BC

Oh good fucking lord. No. And no.

By now I should understand that it’s only natural for people to see a team winning games and to overlook whatever meaningless gaffes they commit, and ascribe to them some kind of a magical “winning” clubhouse culture– and conversely, to blow up every single mistake made by a team not playing to its potential as some kind of damning indictment of a discipline free, rancid clubhouse.

I should understand this, but I sure fucking don’t.

The Orioles are not playing mistake-free baseball, and the Jays get it right a whole lot more often than you perceive.

That certainly doesn’t mean I don’t think we should ask questions about what we’re seeing, or that it isn’t entirely possible that something is wrong with the way that the Jays are being run, but this kind of talk almost inevitably leads to grand proclamations based on the tiniest kernels of visible evidence. I don’t think I need to explain why that’s wildly problematic.

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Q-Dear Richard Stoeten,

I enjoy your column very much. My question is: What’s your opinion on the Jays’ poor on-base percentage? The current roster features six regular players (LF, CF, SS, 2B, 1B/DH, C) who will finish 2012 with an OBP of around .300 or below, which resembles anything but a championship-calibre offence. Most of these players will return in 2013 as core players and this really worries me. On a separate note, what is your opinion on a trade proposal involving Rasmus and Arencibia for Yankees’ LF Gardner and one of their better 2B/infield prospects?

Henry Ip, Toronto

I really like Brett Gardner, too, but I don’t think that scenario would fly, for a number of different reasons on both sides. Regardless, I think the first part of your question is a lot more interesting, as it’s a subject that, I’m realizing now, I haven’t put nearly as much thought into as I could have. Partly that’s because I’m not convinced it’s entirely a matter of organizational philosophy, though I don’t doubt that’s the first conclusion a lot of people would jump to.

For example, Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion have excellent walk rates, and despite landing on your list, Kelly Johnson knows how to take a walk, too– his problem has been a lack of contact, which has led to a lot of strikeouts and an ugly batting average that drives down his OBP despite a walk rate over 10%.

I think part of the issue with the players you’ve mentioned comes down simply to talent. On that front I think JP Arencibia gets a pass, because he’s pretty middle-of-the-pack-ish offensively, when it comes to catchers, and has never been a guy who takes a lot of walks– though he’s somehow been even worse at that this year than last. And Adam Lind, while not having a good year, has walked 8% of the time, which is the second highest walk rate he’s posted in his big league career– so that’s not something organizational either.

Rasmus has just been a mess all year, except for one month, so it’s hard to make any kind of judgements, except to say that clearly he can do better. Brett Lawrie, too, has seen a drop in his walk rate, but has maintained a high enough average to stay in your good graces. His problem poses an interesting question, too, but I definitely think it’s also fixable.

Rajai Davis is perhaps the most interesting case of the guys you’ve listed, as he posted an OBP in the .360s once, and twice in the .320 range, despite having a terrible time getting on base since joining the Jays. Is he swinging more in order to try to “make something happen” and keep his job? I don’t know. I mean, I could pour over the numbers and try to figure something out, but Davis is a fourth outfielder, and I just couldn’t possibly worry terribly about it all that much.

The easy thing would be to say that there’s something wrong with the organization or Dwayne Murphy’s coaching style, but I’m just not sure that’s necessarily the case. As with Davis, I think a lot of these Jays hitters may have tried for a little too long to do too much to help an offence, and a club as a whole, that was hurting and needed runs. I’d like to believe that, and that things will go right back to normal when everybody returns to relative health next year, but I couldn’t possibly think it’s quite so simple. I really don’t know.

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Q-I’m rather interested in the idea of the Buffalo Bisons being the Triple-A affiliate for Toronto. I’m looking for an affiliate introductory lesson. When Toronto players are there, who pays the players salary and expenses? Financially speaking, are the owners of Triple-A teams in it for the love of baseball (like many Junior Hockey Team owners) or is their opportunity for the owners to make some decent money? Is there a financial benefit for Buffalo to pick team A over team B, or is that regulated by Major League Baseball? Who pays for Triple-A spring training? As you can see, I’m looking for a little schooling about down on the farm.

Kevin Anyan, Bowmanville

I don’t entirely know the specifics of all of this, Kevin, but I do know that there’s definitely financial benefit to owning a club, as the minor league teams get revenue from ticket sales, advertising, etc.– and this is why the Buffalo Bisons have chosen not to re-up with the Mets for next year. I also know that Spring Training is something that MLB clubs will pay for, and I’m pretty sure they cover all the salaries of players in their organization, though I’m not 100% sure if there are exceptions. What am I, Google?

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,

With all of the talk of Boston going after John Farrell in the offseason to manage the Red Sox, I would like your opinion on whether JF is a guy who can take this team to the next level? Without specific early season example, I see JF as a guy who makes decisions like a front office person or GM rather than a manager trying to win. Is that how he is running things or is he being micromanaged by AA?

Matt Meisner, St. Catharines

What are you possibly even talking about? What’s the difference between a front office-like decision and a managerial one? One’s more intelligently-based than the other?

I don’t even know how to answer this.

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Q-Hi again -

I wondered if you would take a moment and answer a question of curiosity but of absolutely no importance to the Blue Jays future chances, namely are the bat boys hired by the team? sons/relatives of team personnel? Do they travel with the team or does the home team provide a bat boy for the visiting team? Always wondered, never asked.

Eleanor Pakoz, Port Colborne

No clue. Sorry.

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Q-Richard Stoeten,

I read the blog religiously and I anxiously await the mailbag every time. Keep up the good work. I was wondering if anywhere in the Jays organization has room for Omar Vizquel? Do any of the farm teams make sense for Omar? Does he have other organizations in mind? His intentions for coaching are clear but I haven’t heard where or how. He does help our young Latin players a lot and a hall of famer in the organization would be great.

Thanks Again
,

Martin Aguirre, Owen Sound

What? How can you possibly say, as a statement of fact, that “he does help our young Latin players a lot”? Who are you, Radar? That’s ridiculous– you have no idea.

And as for his coaching prospects… whatever. I’m sure he’ll find a place to coach, and I’m sure the Jays won’t bend over backwards to give him a job just because of his name. If they think he merits a job and he doesn’t have other opportunities, it’ll happen. If so, if not… meh.

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten.

Long time reader, first time writer. A lot of people, especially those in the media, talk about this being a “lost season” for evaluating the 2012 Blue Jays squad given all of their injuries. But I think a lot of people are confusing evaluating talent with evaluating team success.

I have heard a lot of folks say we have no idea what to expect in 2013 based on this year. I would beg to differ. Many of the injuries this summer were to players to whom we know what we can expect. JPA and Bautista to name two. Outside of Perez, the others were mostly to young starting pitchers that were never going to be real difference makers in the near future.

I think what the injuries only proved is that you can never have enough veteran starting pitching, and that in order to compete, this team is going to need to upgrade starting pitching regardless of injuries. We also learned, Kelly Johnson is a not a long-term solution at second, and that Gose and Hech are still a year or two away from being consistent productive hitters in the majors.

All I think we didn’t get to find out this year was if we had been able to stay healthy for most of the season, could we have made a similar type of run for the divison/wild card like Baltimore with the team that broke spring training given Boston falling off this year. What do you think?

Jason Meller, Toronto

Sure… I guess.

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Q-In The Star, Alex Anthopoulos, the GM for the Toronto Blue Jays, stated that Carlos (Villanueva), the pitcher that has been helping the Blue Jays out for a few months, will probably not be a starter next year for the Blue Jays as he does not think that he could play all of the innings required and does not know about his endurance. I am very upset. I think Carlos is excellent compared to their opening lineup, especially Ricky Romero who has been dreadful. Is the real reason for the above that Rogers does not want to pay for Carlos so he will probably get rejects like the rest of the Blue Jays?

Linda Chousky, Toronto

For fuck sakes, Linda, why don’t you actually– I don’t know– examine what’s being said, and why, before jumping to whatever conclusion your Rogers-hating, insufferably impatient, negative suckhole of a gut is telling you.

First off, it was more that Anthopoulos said he wasn’t sure Villanueva could pitch 200 innings over 34 starts, not that he was certain that he couldn’t. Second, given the fact that Villanueva has never come close to that kind of workload, the fact that he had an arm issue late last summer and again in spring training, and that his stuff is just not nearly as impressive as his results, the GM is absolutely in-bounds to wonder whether it’s the right move to sign him. And he said as much to the media because it would have been ridiculous of him not to.

That all said, I’d rather the Jays than anybody else be the team to figure out that he can, it’s just… whether or not they should lock themselves into a rotation that’s two-fifths Romero and Villanueva really depends on what the hell else is out there and viable. You’d like to think they could do better.

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Q-Hi Richard Stoeten,

I read AA’s interview in The Star, and his wish list sounds depressingly like last year’s: starting pitching, a reliable mid-lineup bat, and a quality left fielder. He apparently didn’t pay attention to his own pronouncements last off-season.

 Oh, and by the way, are we so pitching-rich that he can afford to waffle on Villanueva and how many innings he can pitch?

How about all the young, up-coming pitchers whose innings are so carefully guarded and counted? Try not to blow hot and cold at the same time, eh. To that we now add a second baseman (KJ will be gone — is Hechavarria the answer? TBD).

Beyond that, though, I have a wish list about which I’d be interested in your thoughts:

 First, re-sign Omar Vizquel, either as a utility infielder again, or, even better, as an assistant coach in the organization. He’s a class act, and would be a valuable addition. If we don’t re-sign Omar as a player, find an upgrade to Mike McCoy. No knock on McCoy — he’s been a really great utility defender, but he doesn’t hit well enough for a contender.

Send Ricky Romero to some kind of pitching specialist in the off-season. He still has the arm of an ace, but I think his problem is simply that he’s lost his confidence, reminiscent of when he struggled in the minors. We need him badly, so let’s get him some help somewhere.

Give Alvarez an ultimatum: either learn how to throw a quality off-speed pitch in the off-season (which may not be a slider) or we’ll move you to the bullpen. He could prosper there with what he has, but has proven he can’t make it as a starter.

Tell Lind he’s on the bubble in Spring Training, so be fit and ready. He can be so good – and so maddening when he’s not on. We need him to produce consistently, or else we need to find someone to fill his place.

Beyond that, tell all the young studs that making the team is no longer enough. they’ve got to prove that they can be more than just pretty good players. Here I’m particularly thinking about Rasmus, Escobar, Lawrie, and Arencibia. Send them home with the thought that they need to get even better in the off-season if they want to help the team get to the post-season. No coasting! 

Finally, and this is a big one, AA needs to do a Halladay with John Farrell. Ask point blank if he wants to go to Boston. If not, negotiate a contract extension now so the players (and the fans!) know he’s going to be around. If he wants to leave, trade him now and get something good in exchange rather than lose him a year from now. Then promote Brian Butterfield on a one-year contract rather than go through all the upset of doing a complete manager search. Butter is (probably) good enough (you never know until you try), and certainly deserves the opportunity if JF is not the man.

Richard Worzel, Toronto

Adorable!

And you even have some suggestions with actual merit!

First, though, here’s what can fuck off: the notion that telling players not to coast is the magic ingredient the Jays have been missing; giving a shit about Farrell or believing a contract extension solves anything; actually giving Adam Lind another chance; the piece of shit implication that stupid Alvarez must just not be trying to add another pitch his repertoire; the armchair psychology on Romero; the belief that Omar Vizquel has brought anything resembling value to this team; the suggestion that Mike McCoy doesn’t hit well enough– but Omar does?– and the failure to recognize that it’s not only very difficult to find starter-calibre bench hitters, but that it’s a waste of resources to try when the team needs so much work elsewhere; the belief that it’s “waffling” or otherwise illegitimate to look at the facts of Carlos Villanueva’s career and wonder whether he’s up to the task of starting 34 games effectively; and what appears to be scoffing at setting innings limits for young prospects, or some kind of nonsense Schadenfreude over the fact that the young starters whose opportunities the Jays chose not to block with mid-tier veterans unbelievably all happened to blow up.

Yes, they have a question mark at second base, need pitching help, and a big bat wouldn’t hurt.

Comments (296)

  1. I was wondering what to do with my next two hours, and then BOOM. First answer.

  2. I hate this notion of somebody not being “championship-calibre”. Talented baseball players are really really fucking scarce, and no team is completely cloaked in all stars. The Rangers have gone to the WS two years in a row with Mitch fucking Moreland. Its this misconception that makes casual fans think were farther away then we actually are.

  3. Stoeten, you actually linked to a Bluebird Banter post earlier today that exactly explained the cost breakdowns between MLB and MiLB affiliates.

  4. “Nigel Tufnel, Toronto”

    Interesting… do David St. Hubbins and Derek Smalls also read Griffin’s mailbag?

    • Good catch! The drummer who choked on someone else’s vomit was also a fan.

    • Watch out for what’s wrapped in tinfoil next time Escobar goes through security?

    • Escobar should be listening to the flower people a bit more. Right now he’s treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality in a bit of a shit sandwich.

      But that might be nitpicking.

  5. There’s a meth problem in Owen Sound, hence Martin’s question.

    • It’s been a huge problem there, all the way south to Stratford since the early 2000′s.
      Started with a guy teaching dealers how to make it.Horrible fucking drug.

      And now that Stoeten has found my true indentity, I’ll need to have more plastic surgery and another name change.

  6. “Send Ricky Romero to some kind of pitching specialist in the off-season.”

    Fuck. If only we had thought of that earlier, and could have done that during the season. Like brought in some sort of….coach, perhaps…maybe someone who was once a pitcher. This person could have helped Romero along. A pitching specialist. Fucking genius!

  7. Where the fuck is the game threat?

  8. Just turned on the game after reading your answer to Linda’s question.

    Carlos V has staked the Rays to a 5 – 0 lead.

    He’s also just passed his career high in IP.

    Still would like to see him re-signed…. But its right to question whether he can hack a full starters load.

  9. Game threat is not needed as the Rays have already performed swift justice through just 2+ innings.

    • Another disastrous game in Tampa Bay.

      Heart & Hustle 3.0…..

      AA must be happy that he can talk down Carlos V’s asking price.

      On a serious note, I wonder how the other Latinos in the clubhouse feel about the Jays thwing Escobar under the bus & especially the Fan 590 making Escobar out to be a homophobic biggot.

      Escobar deserved the penalty he got, but Rogers Sportsnet bashing of a cuban refugee who fled cuba on a raft deserves a bit more compassion.

      I wonder if the Jays would do this to white or african american players that made the same mistake. Would Lawrie get run out of town for the same error?

      Don’t forget it was Farrell & the other American coaches that didn’t notice what was escobar was wearing.

      According to Zaun, everyone knows what Maricon means.

      • Good point, if Lawrie was playing winter ball in the Dominican and did something similar, would Zaun and Mccowan shit all over him?

        • Agreed. I have a feeling that Mccowan & Zaun would be terrified of bashing Laurie for a similar thing.

          Where was the outrage last winter when Laurie was tweeting pictures of overweight women at the phoenix coyotes hockey games.

          If it happened now, would Lawrie be forced to attend sensitivity training for obese people & would the Jays donate part of his salary to a weight loss charity.??

          • Heh, don’t ya love double standard’s. Wonder what happened to all the homphobic banter of Pat Tabler… C’est la vie ;)

          • There were also a lot of commenters on this site defending Lawrie saying it was only a joke and to lighten up and that she deserved it for being fat.

      • What a load of shit. Lets stay on topic. What does the Cuban refugee and Lawrie BS have to do with the fact that Escobar did something stupid? Fuck lets just move on and understand that he was an idiot. Hopefully he learns from it and can be better next year

  10. Anyone know Carlos’ tee shirt size, I want to send him his own #TankNation faded blue – awesome job tonight

    • Can’t help you, but I strongly suspect his hat size is going to fall a size or two after this shit show.

  11. Escobar suffers from FAS …….The blank look in his eyes, issues with attention and obvious choice selection. Sure its my opinion, but I’d bet on it.

  12. My only joy is cheering for Kansas City, Boston, Miami & the Mets…aka the teams all near our future draft position.

    There is nothing.

    • I know what you’re attempting to say, but it ain’t ‘joy’ by a long shot. Possibly consolation.

    • Boy, if anyone had said we would among the worst 8 teams in baseball this year after a 24-7 spring start,….

      AA will have to pull some rabbits out of his hat to make the team respectable again.

      • Are you Eeyore? Seriously, go mope in a corner. The team was plenty respectable, you just got your hopes up too high and now you want to drag us all into your endless circus of whining and moaning.
        Get outside and go for a run or something.

        • LOL! It’s hard to be positive about the team, when they are getting blown out by the Rays who can’t score against anyone else.

          I don’t see Stoeten being all Rah Rah about the Jays.

          Everyone wants the season from hell to end.

          The injury excuse doesn’t explain the poor performance last night.

        • LOL about eeyore. My kids told me who that was.

  13. Lol at Buck and Pat thinking 11 runs in CV’s last 19 innings being good.

  14. coverage of Blue Jay day in Buffalo

    http://blogs.buffalonews.com/insidepitch/

  15. What a lovely game.

  16. so, am I right, that with the new TV deals, every club starts with $50 million in national TV money, less whatever take MLB overhead lops off for their cut (starting in 2014 thru 2021)? Or is it on a graduated basis, are the figures net present value, some other calculation??

    • Doesn’t matter rogers will find a way to exlude that from jays revenue.

      If that is true you are going to see salaries skyrocket.

      • Very true that payroll will increase throughout the league. Local & regional broadcast revenue is also increasing for teams even in small markets.

        The reds were able to able to sign Votto to a 200 million contract.

        It’s up to Rogers to allocate the FMV broadcast revenue to the Jays or the team will continue to fall behind.

  17. So once again wilner claims the injury excuse as the reason the jays are not in the playoff race and his proof is that we were 3 games back on july 31. Ok but he assumes that everything remained stagnant. If he claims that the jays are a .500 team then that means they would have been 5 games out on aug 15, then 7 games out on sep 1, and then 10 games out right now.

    So if the jays are perennially a .500 team they will always be out of it by mid august. You have to be a good team to stay in it. There is absolutely no way this team will be in it ever unless drastic changes are made with this lineup.

    • Yeah, because players play exactly the same way every year. Thanks for the genius analysis! You should get a job in some ML scouting department with your calm and coolly objective reasoning.

    • The team was 31-30 before Morrow got hurt. It seems that a healthy Jays team would have won around 8-85 games.

      The performance of the team in september is very disappointing considering the position player are back except for Bautista.

      This team is worse than the 75-89 2009 team.

      • Faulty logic. The team was 31-30 when the pitching was doing all of the work. The majority of the hitters didn’t show up until Morrow/Drabek/Hutch went down.

        We haven’t had the whole team function like it was supposed to all year long.

        • That’s a fair point. However, it is unlikely that you get the whole offence & pitching clicking at the same time. If so, Jays would win 120 games per year.

          I wonder how much if at all Batista will regress next year.?

          • They also played the easy part of their schedule in the first half. When they were a .500 team after an easy April/May, you knew they were in trouble.

  18. Could somebody tell me how long until the Winter meetings or the big trade ’cause I just don’t have the desire anymore…..those were my wife’s words as I lay in bed piss drunk watching the old Jays World Series VHS tapes….she is a funny bitch. Anyone know where I can get a vintage VHS head cleaner? Might have to go back to watching NHL…oh yeah….Fuck!

    • The vintage head cleaners were easy but you can clean the heads on your VCR with extended qtips and alcohol.All the dirt and grime will come off and it’ll play just like new.

    • I have the World Series DVD’s. I didn’t follow the Jays back then , but those teams had a lot of veteran players.

      I do wonder about Zaun saying there are too many kids in the clubhouse.

      On the other hand, didn’t Kevin Millar lead a clubhouse revolt against Cito in 2009.

      The team has to have a better 2013. It is statistically impossible or the team to be as bad next year.

      • No, as a matter of fact, I didn’t. Media myths. Get your facts straight.

        • Speak to Dirk Hayhurst about that.

          Last night’s Jays talk was a classic. Wilner got schooled by Jason, who reads this blog . He said that DJF & other blogs are too apologetic for the team’s horrible season & referenced the Dave Perkins Toronto Star article about sloppy baseball that the Jays play. Poor Wilner kept repeating that the Jays led the MLB in runs scored, yet forgot that the runs against was also pretty high.

          Wilner started blaming the fans for expecting the team hype to be true. He said the Jays did not overpromise but underdelivered.

          Several callers after that said that Wilnr should stop relying on injuries.

          A caller blamed Coco & the poor bullpen at the beginning of the year. Wilner said Coc0 only blew 3 games. Seems to be more games that that.

          A caller said the Jays players should apologize to the fans for a horrible year & Wilner laughed at that.

  19. Guess the season is officially over. What a terrible way to end the season no game threat, less than 40 posts, and a team controversey that will remain a stain for some time to come. Someone load the shotgun shells so we can put this ugly 2012 BJ season out of its misery.

    • You say ugly, I say better draft picks.

      If you’re going to miss the playoffs, your future development is better if you miss by a lot.

      • prolog, the future your talking about never comes. You should root for the Cubs and you would be a happy man

      • It’s a question of whatthe jays do with their higher picks.

        Having Rogers committ extra money to the draft & hiring more scouts etc .

        Will these scouts be able to use thie skills to get excellent players better than other teams??

        Can the Jays use their minor league system to develop home grown talent.?

        Baseball is a very fluid game & no guarantees from year to year.

        I think AA’s every move will be analyzed with much more scrutiny this offseason.

  20. Fuck it. I’m cheering for the Yankees and Athletics for the remainder of the season. Don’t get me wrong, I hate them with a passion, but I hate the Orioles magical season even more. Them getting the second wild card and losing would make me feel warm inside.

    • This is one of the few times that I have to disagree with you. The Orioles represent the beauty of what baseball is about.It’s not that they are the underdogs but it proves the anology that, baseball is like life.
      A bunch of non superstars who defy the odds and the experts to make the playoffs.
      Play hard,follow the fundamentals,have a manager to make the unpopular decisions,add a little bit of luck and never, never give up.
      They’re proof that the results aren’t always mathematically predetermined. That there’s hope no matter how many experts shit on you.
      Don’t panic when you go into extra innings.Play as a team.
      When the cocksuckers say you can’t keep it up, that you have to fall back to earth,that you should concede that you won’t make it,you’re playing over your head.Fuck them all,keep on winning and when it’s all over, they can debate how wrong their predictions were.

      • I’ll admit that the Orioles are a nice story, and I’ve said that on a few occasions, but as a fan of a rival, a rival who’s playing like ass and still managing to win games, I kinda want to see them fall short.

        It’s just annoying to know that the Jays were statistically a better team for the longest time, yet sat in the basement of the AL East (the Jays belong there now).

        • I feel your pain.
          We use stats as a tool to help us make decisions.To take the emotion out of the equation and make logical sound choices that make sense.
          There’s nothing wrong with that,except when you use stats alone without considering other factors.
          Stoeten,Parkes and Drew try to justify arguments based solely on stats. They even break the stats into sub categories because they recognize other factors can affect the stats.
          For something based on logic, to ignore factors that are unmeasurable but do exist and have an effect on the outcome, is in itself illogical.
          There are many different strategies,none of them wrong, but produce different results.
          The Orioles may not be winning because of their stats but because of the other parts of the equation used to get wins.

          • I’ll give you a +1 RADAR for being completely rational, and otherwise correct. I’ll step off the ledge now lol.

          • @ Indestructible

            LOL
            NP, I enjoy the discussion.Sometimes my rose coloured glasses slip down my huge nose (fuckin SP had to bring it up,I am quite vain) and I can’t see the forest, for the trees.

      • Even after Stoeten has forced you to wear the fake glasses & funny nose you’re still talking sense Radar. (What, you say that isn’t a fake nose? Welp.)

      • @ Radar Plus 1. It’s fun to watch a team wi games when they shouldn’t .

        Last year the Rays were out of the race , by about 10 games on september 1, then managed to win 2/3 of their games in september while the red sox bombed.

        They got into the playoffs on their last at bat .

        It would be nice if the Jays ever had one of those magical seasons.

        It will be fun to see if they can getthrough the first round of the playoffs.

        Orioles vs Nationals for the World Series???

        • Yeah Oakville,It’d be nice for the jays to steal a few games and get some magic happening.
          I hope Farrell’s learning curve increases dramatically. I like the guy and hope he does well with a healthy team next year.
          But
          I have concerns when he can’t implement a game plan because players are running whenever they want,running through stop signs,bunting at athe wrong time,then everyone in the park knows that when a runner gets on first Farrell’s gonna sacrifice.We all know how many young players are on the team and are going to make mistakes.That’s part of the job of the manager,use his experience to make the decisions for the inexperienced players.To have a game plan then be able to adapt it because it’s not working on that day.To get advice from his coaches. To have control and lead.
          It may sound crazy but there are times he seems to manage scared.What should be aggressive, appears to be defensive,out of control,desperate.
          I could be out of line with those thoughts.
          Don’t hate the guy, I just have concerns

          • +1.

            Clearly the baserunning errors have to be reducing in 2013.

            The Jays have two weapons for 2013 in LF. Gose & Davis.

            I assume the plan will be to use Rajai as 4th OF & pinch runner next year.

            Farrell needs to control the bullpen better.

            You can’t let Santos become the closer until he has proven himself.

            The players have to have smarter at bats. When a pitcher is the ropes or nearing his pitch count. then take a few pitches .

            Jays have to learn to bunt when the time is right.

    • You hate the lowly Os. Why because they are not your bitch anymore. Because they have a real manager and not some idiot who can’t manage a bullpen. Keep in mind that they have the 25th rated farm system and The Jays’ are second. What you should hate then is a GM like Long Greek Name Man who cannot develop his talent properly. If he values his job he will look to see what Buck and Duquette have done in Baltimore instead of spouting thjs building BS.

      One more thing Mike Windbag is sickening me with the Runs Scored bit back when there were no injuries what is the excuse now? JB is the only player that is not back and they still suck. Baseball teams are ultimately judged on Wins and Loses NOT two or three sabermetric values, that’s something that evades him totally.

      A True Blue Jays Fan

      PS Trade Farrell to Boston BUT don’t hire Butter as the new manager. They need a Showalter type who has built organizations and has managed before(like how Buck built the dynasty Yankees and the Diamondbacks that won the World Series) not someone who has been part of a non playoff team for so long. Someone form the outside who hires his own coaches and has managed successfully before. The hitting sucks, the pitching sucks and the team sucks!

  21. Hmmm…what about Mike McCoy at second base. Does he have a good enough OBP.. or is he a bench player only?

    • Why not make Mike Mccoy the utility infielder for 2013?

      He would be an upgrade over Omar Visquel.

      • Seriously why not…can play anywhere servicably and can bunt for a base hit and run…better than wasting money on someone who plays 10% of the time

  22. Here’s a question worthy of debate: The Mariners need positions players to rebuild further; The Rays won’t be able to afford Price much longer. Which one do you empty the farm for?

    For me, it would be Price. The Mariners would demand Lawrie for any trade to happen, and while he may be stubborn, or dare I say idiotic, he still has a great chance to be that superstar the Jays desperately need him to become, and already has put up impressive value given his age.

    • See the thing is, the Mariners do not want to trade Felix. The Rays, on the other hand, are practical and realize they have a surplus of pitching. Thus the Mariners would demand more than market value for Felix and be perfectly happy resigning him to an extension instead of trading him, whereas the Rays might be willing to take the best offer they can get.

      This makes Price cheaper for his value, and the better option.

    • I might be missing something but why would the Rays be so eager to trade Price? He’s still got 3 years of arb left before he becomes a FA.

      • Mostly because his value will never be higher, the Rays have a surplus of pitching, have a horrid offense, and team control doesn’t necessarily equate to cost-effectiveness. He’s making $4.35MM this year and could command $10MM easily.

        However, I think it’s more likely the Rays trade Shields for their needs.

    • As I said yesterday… I bet a package for Price could be built around Darnaud and one of the Lansing arms.

      • And I’d totally be fine with giving that up inside the division.

      • The fact that you’re both so good with that deal should tell you something, but if AA could get Friedman to agree (without adding anyone else of real consequence,) colour me thrilled.

        • Well they say TDA has the potential to be an all star, but the Jays need pitching now and who better to go after than the best pitcher in the MLB? Moreover, they could probably be making a run in 2 years and be perfectly willing to pay Price’s price for a re-up. Latos went for 4 last winter though. it could be that Friedman would want too much.

  23. Well….Orioles magic (or whatever the fuck it is) continues, as they win their eight hundredth straight extra inning game.

    I think they still have a -ve run differential. It’s remarkable.

  24. This was taken from the comments from bluejays.com
    “Actually, depriving Rogers of money is the only method of communication that they understand”

    Awesome!!! Then I won’t pay my Rogers bill this month. That’ll show ‘em who’s boss.

    • I once told a company I was sending my bill payment late because their service was late.

      That didn’t go over so well.

  25. The odds of winning 16 staright xtra inning games are .00001 ie.1 in 100,000. Unfuckin believable. The jays can’t even win 5 fuckin games in arow over 162 games s’thing every other team has done at least one incl the Houston fuckin Astros.
    THe Jays need some significant changes including a couple on the coaching staff. any other half decent team with 2/3 of the lineup hitting .243 or worse w/h long ago dumped the “hitting” coach as tehy are doimng anything but. Fire Murphy for starters and I thinbk Walton too

    • Shit fukstick, I went to Google Translate for help, only to get “it does not compute.”

    • got nuthin’ to do with coaches or talent … gotta get a new name, so that that witch sticking needles into a bluejay somewhere no longer affects this team.

  26. oh I hope Joe Maddon’s Too Cute By Half lineup of all RH hitters vs. Morrow turns into a no-hitter for Brandon – no, scratch that, I am getting greedy – Perfect Game – fuck the Rays

  27. I simply refuse to be ‘Francisco’d’ tonight.

  28. the Travis Snider Enigma – no extra base hits in September and only 3 in his last 27 games (2 doubles and a triple) .559 OPS since August 15th

  29. 40 pitches in the first inning, should they schedule Morrow’s TJ surgery now?

  30. since August 15th, Gose has a .707 OPS and he has 5 XBHs in that same period (and with 20 less PAs than TSnide).

  31. nobody felt safe to call Brandon a maricon and set his edge, so he had to let the Rays do it in the first inning … he’s throwing strikes now.

  32. the ump stopped believing

  33. BMo heard about how cool the #TankNation tee shirts are from Carlos, he wants one too – okay BMo, its on its way – keep it going, bud

  34. that romeritus has become contagious

  35. they stink-i can’t take it anymore-over and out!

  36. Joe Maddon is on fire.

    • He’s much too cool to spontaneously combust.

      • Yes but I meant he can ignite an offense. Straight righties and they’re still teeing off.

        • Yes, Formerly The Immolated Monk aka Formerly the Smasher, Maddon pulls all the right strings. He would be a real comfort behind our bench.

  37. came back for one sec to see how much respect Maddon has for Lind-walks EE intentionally with a count of 2 and 2 basically saying EE is absolutely the only gut in this whole fuckin lineup that maddon is even worried about. AA better get off his ass this winter

    • That’s why I bat edwin 4th so that I can keep the lefty righty matchup in order. This is more important than worrying about edwin getting walked.

  38. The jays need to trade this stiff morrow asap. He’s nothing more than a 3 starter and not durable. His value will never be higher. Get a hellickson type and I’ll be happy.

  39. Yes but I meant he can ignite an offense. Straight righties and they’re still teeing off.

  40. Heading for 4-14 against the Rays. Pathetic.

  41. Anaheim has 3 first basemen (Pujols, Morales,Trumbo) and their top prospect is a major league ready 1b – CJ Cron who is tearing up the minors. Opportunity there. Give up one of the big arms and then we have 1B/DH locked up and can wipe our asses with Lind.

  42. Fuckin Jays are like a puppy, and Farrell is the owner. They’re young and in need of discipline, and when Farrell lets them loose, they get run over by traffic.

  43. better a terrible winless slide into the end of the year than some bullshit false-hope strong September – bitter herbs for everyone going into off-season, hopefully motivates, especially ownership and management

  44. I can’t believe he actually got there. Nice to see what Gose is capable of for the next decade.

    • I like the fact that he looked disgusted that he failed to hold on to it. He sets his sights high.

  45. Fuck. Great effort by Gose though.

  46. all i know is AA better get off his ass and do s’thing positive or I will start to believe the commonly held notion that Rogers are cheap fukstiks. A few of these guys are severely overrrated and damn near the whole team is hiiting.235. Fuk hitting at this pathetic rate and they still refuse to take a walk!. The most prodigious hitters are JB and EE and guess what they take walks!
    We need a few guys like Scutaro with an on base rate of close to 400 and the lowest SO rate in baseball. The diff between him and KJ alone is about 50 runs! Imagine how many more wins we’d have with just that one fuckin move. What the hell did AA ever see inthat cocksucker KJ anyway?

  47. I ain’t mad atcha Brad, 14 of 20 scoreless appearances with Jays

  48. on our way to 10-4 predicted above

  49. Why the fuck can we not get out anybody that played for us? mastroianni, nix, rios, molina, francisco all are killing us!!@#$!@#$

  50. Video from these last 2 games should be the required viewing upon start of Spring Training next year -

  51. that romeritus is getting out of control

  52. 9-4 10-4 whatever-this time I mean it. Fuckin crap pitchers.fuckin crap team. For shit!.
    Dunno man. This Lincoldn sure doesn’t impress me much-trade him for Jesse Chavez

  53. Someone find me John Wilkes Booth. Quick

  54. Time to assassinate another Lincoln?

  55. Hey lincoln, welcome the AL east where you don’t get to face the astros and cubbies all the time. Good of alex to take that into account.

  56. If, big IF (cross my fingers), they run the table on losses, 2nd overall pick in the draft is a possibility

    • Hopefully they don’t fuck up tank nation like the Leafs do every year.

      • Imagine how bad we could be if we put some effort into it, instead of just going through the motions.

        • Did I hear Buck say tonight that Farrell was worried about the “integrity of the game” and that he thought it was his duty to put out the best lineup every night?

  57. They should put David Carpenter in.

    He did a great job yesterday of lowering his ERA to 43.20. I’m sure with only a few runs in an inning, we can get that down to the 30-35 mark.

  58. somewhere deep in the Carribean, the Aunty Mojo Fanatics Sewing Circle is upset that their boy Yunel has been mistreated up there in Canada

  59. Whew. Good thing the Rays don’t have a very good offense or that inning could have gotten ugly.

  60. Farrell should be forced to watch 20 hours of Madden managing a baseball team straight. Madden managed to win the game tonight and Farrell managed to lose it in the first two innings.

    • Welcome to tank nation!

    • Farrell should just be traded to fucking Boston for whatever the hell they can get from him. If there were such thing as manager WAR, I have to fucking imagine he’d be somewhere between negative 3 and negative 5 on the year. He’s fucking terrible.

      Lock up someone like Dave Martinez or give Ausmus a fucking shot. Farrell is a fucking retard.

      • Let the Massholes have Farrell as long as they take Lind as well. Put the $$ towards Big Papi.

        • K Rosenthal said they should hold on to him til Boston makes a good ( read silly) offer. If they REALLY want him (and they seem to) they’ll understand that their window is closing because they’re going to have to expedite things right after they fire Valentine. In addition, If they dont get Farrell this time around they may never get him.

      • Farrell is a good communicator but he had no clue what to say at the escobar press conference.

        I listened to the weei pre game show. They want Jim Leyland now.

  61. So what happened to Brandon Morrow being that staff ace? How about that brand-spanking new “SHUT DOWN BULLPEN”? Championship calibre was it?

    This team is a fucking joke. 2013 is going to be another long, shitty year.

  62. Over/Under on how many times Wilner mentions tonight on Jays talk that the Blue Jays lead the league in runs scored back in July. My guess is 3

    • We’ll also need several reminders on some arbitrary stretch of games where Lincoln was very good.

      (Bashing Wilner, not Lincoln. I think he can rebound from all this.)

      • Wilner got schooled twice last night. Once by Jason who gave a strong defense.

        There were other callers who let him have it.

        Wilner tried to bash for the fans for believing Rogers Hype.

    • +1.

      Lincoln is another disastrous trade by AA.

      Can’t wait for fake oakville69 to make a snarky post.

      Lincoln doesn’t look like a shutdown reliever.

    • Granted anyone left here is a certified masochist, but your unbridled glee at the opportunity to jump from the frying pan straight into the fire is truly astonishing.

      • I am watching saturday night fever, & keeping an eye on the Jays game.

        I will tune into Wilner later for comic relief.

  63. Wilner has made it into the fukstik category for broadcasters-whiny little cunt. He” be joining that warren sawkiw ( remember him) if he doesn;t start seeeing the light. Fuk listening to Wilner was Cordero’s balls when he was here and b4 that it was Overbay and Wells. Fukin Wilner w/n know when a player is toast if he was allowed to take a bite

  64. I’ve had too much fukin wine-jesus the Jays look good

    • I’m a happy wino myself, but I never see pink elephants, or anything else equally unlikely.

  65. the silent treatment for Jose Iglesias after his 1st ever HR is not bad viewing:

    http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24943759&c_id=mlb

  66. MTW games against Minny for last place the last 3 games of the year at Rogers centre.
    I peg the O/U for attendance for both the Mon and Tues games at 7500 and for the wed game at 15000. Whadda ya think?
    BTW no one answered my Q as to whether this edition of the JAys pitching staff is the first ever ( it looks like) to have no pitchers that will win 10 games!!( outside chance that fukin Alvarez does but hasn’t yet). In our worst fukin years we always had a Dennis Lamp or a mark eichorn who fluked their way to 10 or more-is this a jays record?

    • You could probably look it up on that internet thing.

    • The season is ending in a mess. I will be at the yankees game next friday night.

      I think this is worse than the clubhouse revolt of 2009 to end a season.

    • I think The attendance is based on tickets sold, so I would be shocked if there was a reported attendance under 10K.

      I wonder who would bother showing up to the first 2 games against Minnesota.

  67. R. Halladay 1.2 ip 5H 7ER 3BB 3SO … the gremlins are all over baseball tonight

  68. Fuck yeah, bring Frasor into the game so it goes a few hours longer.

  69. Alan Ashby in Houston for their 50th Anniversary game – vs. Pirates – I wonder if he comes back with tales of Travis Snider

  70. Boy, time flies when you’re having fun, eh?

  71. Yescobar & Hech–That’s a combo I’d be happy to see planted in the infield for years to come.

    • Escobar isn’t an up and comer any longer. He is what he is, I’m ready for something better.

      • I hope we have a chance to shift him to second now, and him accepting the move gracefully. (I know–a guy can dream, ok?) If his trade value hasn’t cratered, then by all means move him.

  72. The Rays dipshit calls Davis – Rajah like he’s from India. Of course, he plays baseball like he’s from India.

    Boys really grinding in the ninth.

  73. LOL @ draftderby.com

  74. I still remember the days when wilner used to say “aaron hill is only 26, he just had a baby”

    for a limited time only, get wilner’s greatest excuses for only 9.99 from ktel and get a free ginsu paring knife!

  75. Betting virtual beers that Jays can lose 10 in a row.

  76. As Jays fans we didn’t deserve this season but….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDkYZWeeVg

  77. Bit of a lymp effort by these Jays.

  78. That’s limp…

  79. Jays go for back to back sweeps today

  80. Goodbye Yorvit Torrealba, we hardly even knew ya! Please join me in welcoming the Jays newest PTBNL. Don’t forget our motto…”Thank you Sir, may I have another”

  81. I believe with a loss today, and a win by the Marlins would put the Jays tied for the 6th overall draft pick.

    #TankNation

    • Wow!. A proud achievement for the Jays.

      So the higher ranked draft pick for 2013 would help the 2016 or 2017 Jays.

      Good Job building for the future.

      • Absolutely! Because finishing 15th and still missing the playoffs puts you in a worse situation.

        Remember that kid Stroman who would be pitching for the Jays right now if he didn’t ingest a banned substance? What uear was he drafted again?

        I know yer being sarcastic, but meh. Factual correctness prevails.

        • Factual correctness doesn’t help oakville69 beat a dead narrative of his making.

          • Actually i think in this case it does. If it weren’t factually correct, he’d be right, and the dead narrative very much alive.

          • oakville69 exumes his dead narrative each and every day and attempts to give it the kiss of life.

          • It’s becoming tiresome to cheer for #Tank Nation every year. Jays have not won a series at the Trop since 2007. That is embarrasing especially given the factthat the Rays are weaker offensively this year.

            AA supposedly rebuilt the bullpen again in July & it blew up last night.

        • and Chris Sale was up in his draft year – anyone really think senior Mark Appel is completely unable from making it to a major league bullpen by next August?? – he may not but I certainly wouldn’t bet against it – and Sean Manaea had such a strong summer in Cape Cod, he could be another one who could make the jump

        • LOL!.
          Knowing the Jays luck he will show up in 2013 & pitch a few good games & then get forearm tightness & end up with Tomy John surgery.

          How much bad luck can this team have. They draft a guy to help the team in 2012, then he takes the wrong medecine so he gets suspended for 50 games.

          Does Stroman know which medecines are banned or did the trainers forget to tell him?

          Is this another example of Farrell & his coahes not knowing what is bannes , just like they don’t know what Maricon means???

          Obviously if AA drafts a high school player in the 2013 first around, he won’t be ready to join the MLB team till 2016

          • @ Oakville

            According to Hayhurst, the players are given a list of banned supplements ( it wasn’t medicine).
            The supplement Stroman took would only warrant a suspension, if he were in the MLB. Because he was in the minors, he gets a 50 gamer.
            Certain protein powders and such don’t list all of the ingredients on the label.
            Stroman is guilty of not reading the list of supplements NOT to use.

  82. So is Gose pretty much a lock for leftfield next year? That’s got to be the reason he’s not playing right to end the season eh?

    • Is anybody on this team a lock for any of their supposed roles for next year, outside of EE (at 1B) and Delabar as a reliever? A valid case could be made for at least questioning assumptions for each role on the team. I don’t include Joey Bats because who knows how the nature of this particular type of injury will affect his stats next year.

      • I think a lot will happen in the off season.Agree with Pudge nobody’s a lock.

        • Honestly I think Gose will be traded. His bat doesn’t play anywhere but CF, and I get the sense they’re more committed to Rasmus.

          Gose as a piece of a trade for J-Up or Price perhaps?

        • @ Oakville

          According to Hayhurst, the players are given a list of
          @ RADAR,

          So we drafted a player who is expected to be called up to the MLB in 2012 who doesn’t read the list of banned supplements???

          We are drafting players that can’t read??

          This is sloppy. Don’t the Jays have a scouting/development staff that explain the banned powders etc to the players

      • …hell, now that I think about it further, I wouldn’t even put Delabar as a lock, given the pitching staff injury history this year. He’ll probably shred his bionic arm trying to lift a case of beer, or something else stupid like that, in the off season.

  83. The Jays better be taking notes in the dugout that this is what defense looks like.

  84. Somebody shoot me.
    All I’m seeing is the positive side of Jays losing games.
    I’ve got nothing but good thoughts going into nexr year.
    I’m a glass half full guy normally.But this shit show of a season couldn’t end any better than it is.
    Unless Beeston,AA and Rogers are totally insane.
    Or maybe I’m the one who is nuts.

    • me too, there’s always a woof or two in any game

      • Well Beeston has the proof.
        If the Jays win or if there’s hope,attendance and TV ratings will rise.
        Lose and apathy sets in.
        There’s a built in excuse for this year, a mulligan let’s say.The casual fans and the hype that goes with them,won’t be there if next year is another shit show.

        • And now we know the value of Snider,Thames and Lind on the trade market.
          Whether KJ is a 2nd baseman.
          Whether Bautista would regress,EE would ever hit like the scouts said.Whether EE could play any position or be a permanant DH.
          Whether all the prospects were ready for the bigs or needed more seasoning.
          And what you got in starting pitching.

        • Beeston s a strange person. I met him last fall near Union Station . He looked confused by the PATH system trying to get to Rogers Centre. He’s quite friendly to fans that go up to him.

          Anyway, I read he was a personal friend of the Rich family that owned the Bisons & got the deal done in 90 minutes with Buffalo.

          The recent interview with DJF, Beeston convinced AA not to go for long term contracts with players.

        • I would think that if AA only makes minor upgrades to the team, the buzz will be less than this year.

          The new/old uniforms were very popular & the Rogers hype machine was successful.

          Unfortunately, they can’t do marketing next year with Ricky Romero or Brett Lawrie due to disappointing seasons.

          Edwin doesn’t speak english & Bautista was hurt .

          Lind is hopeless, unless they want to focus on his potential from the bench.

          I suppose Casey Janssen could be the spokesperson for the team.

          Jays could also use Dr James Andrews in their ads, saying he has operated on several Jays & the future looks bright.

          It would be innovative for the Jays to use Dr Andrews in their ads.

          They could also have Keith Law issue a few positive tweets about the farm system.

          #sarcasm

          • Notwithstanding Dr James Andrews ability to cash in on his “inside” knowledge of the Jays pitching staff, he’s probably a very rich man already and doesnt need the gig.
            Maybe a bit on D’Arnaud? Unless he’s dealt before the air date.

  85. like right now BL should be able to get a hit and score one or two runs. Maybe not today, but ???

    • Nope Brett Lawrie strikes out with men at 2B & 3B to end the inning . Good Job Brett!

      Tank Nation supports you!!

  86. I’m seeing it took 7 pitches to strike out this time … an improvement. Now if he can learn to take one less fake swing and actually be ready for a pitch rather than have to be fast enough to catch up ???

  87. A foregone conclusion. Pity.

  88. The only triks these guys get are found on Jarvis street. I don’t think I have ever ever, seen a team that has such a pathetic strike out/walk ratio in my life. KJ and JPA whiff, on average , between them, 2.5 time a game! JPA never walks andKJ walks are down. Other than EE and JB a walk seems to be frowned upon, yet the RAYS lead the league in walks! Do that and you do not need as many hits. If I was hitting .230 like most of this fucj=kin team I w/b trying for walks to show I had some worth cause most of em don’t.
    Murphy deserves to be fired because obviously the message is not getting thru and we need some new pole sitters for fsakes

    • please tell me these guys don’t have ipods playing during practices or music playing on the field (I like music buts it a different modality than focus and repeat), because there are some signs that the young’uns are not following instructions.

    • Just checkin the nerd stats, in the AL Boston and Seattle have a worse K/BB than the Jays. But the Jays ratio is not good.

  89. growl … you would think that they would be having BL take a pitch or 2 to give Gose a chance to steal 3rd or at least rattle the pitcher a bit.

  90. Fun fact: Toronto has scored more runs than the Rays.

    Even now, after Bautista has been gone half the season, Toronto still has scored more runs than the Rays.

    The Rays are where they are because their pathetic offense has been carried by superb pitching, the second best in all of baseball. Not because their offense can take a walk.

    • Was meant as a reply to fukstick.

    • So if you could switch rosters, would you rather have the Rays or Jays?

      AA could turn the Rays roster into a playoff contender faster than he can do with his own team.

      • The Rays are just a better organization. The Jays have failed to fucking develop their plethora of prospect talent into any above-average major leaguers. Meanwhile, the Rays churn out a new great starting pitcher every single fucking year.

        Who cares how many fucking runs the Rays score? They win ball-games because Maddon knows how to fucking write up a line-up card and get the most out of his players. Not to mention manage a bullpen. He utilizes his players’ strengths. This is something that Farrell and the Jays would know nothing about.

        • I’m impressed with Hickey too. He’s got a great resume. Disagree on the plethora of prospects though. It’s only AA’s 3rd draft and those kids from year 1 are still at A or AA ball.
          If you noticed the last couple of broadcasts Tabler and Martinez (not that everything they say is true) have harped on the fact that the Rays NEVER bring up a pitcher until he’s ready. Given their stats, you cant argue with that. In addtion, once a pitcher gets to Tampa, Hickey and his staff know what to do with him and how to get the most out of him. (to wit: F. Rodney) Until the Jays get to the point where their system is as “stocked” with as many quality pitchers as Tampa’s, we wont be able to judge our pitching coaches but I suspect they may be fairly average..

  91. I’ve been in Europe for this series, missed the last 4 games. Not that I’ve missed much, but why does the fan590 block the game audio on their website? I assume it has something to do with mlb rights. I can’t even get the games on the free “Full Count” app, I can only get yankees games. Sucks.

  92. The point being if we got some walks, we would have less outs when the big boys (EE and JB) come up (i.e more bsaerunners) and a better cahnce to get 2 and 3 run homers instaed of solos.
    I’m tired of hearing that the blu jays led in runs scored-so fucking what?
    They win games 11-2 against the like of Minny and cleveland but lose a whole pile of 3-1 games aginst the rays and Yanks ’cause they can’t hit good pitching and don’t know what to do when swingin from the heels doen’t work. Guys who hit .235 on the Yanks/bosox/rays work the count ,so at the least they can get the starting pitcher out of there.Jays? Countless 7 pitch inning this year. Unreal

    • +1.

      Heart & Hustle 3.0

    • My thoughts exactly. I’m not going to condemn Murphy outright, but he could be doing more. If you watch Jeter and/or Pedroia, they ARE aggressive on strikes 1 and 2. But they then foul off subsequent pitches until they get “their” pitch or they walk.

      • actually Jeter is not that much of a fouler. he only avg’s. 3.71 pitchers per at bad meanwhile Colby (cheeseboy) Rasmus avg’s 3.74

  93. keep da red bull outa da dugout

  94. Back to back sweeps…now onto to Baltimore for a 3-peat. We’er going for 10 in a row baby!

    • Your enthusiasm is highly commendable, birddawg, although misplaced of course. Your syntax and spelling, as per usual, are spotty. It’s almost like you do it on purpose. Tomorrow will be a beautiful day for a ballgame. Let’s watch two!

      • To have the enthusiasm to at least make a comment about a lowly team, on a forum which was neglected (a rare occasion mind you) by it’s creator is indeed commendable lol.

        • I just give birddawg back-handed compliments–he seems to thrive on them.

        • birddog, someday scholars will study your posts in search of your real intent. Until then I plan to just enjoy them. You wouldn’t have any Canadian Tire money would you? It’s for a good cause.

          • I don’t shop at those high end stores…but I can transfor you the 4 Airmiles points I have. I went to the LCBO one time in 1998 and got this card that allows you to get on a plane for free after you make a purchase. I won’t use them cause I do’t speak any languages

          • I’m counting on the language of love. Fingers crossed.

  95. Christ let’s just put a bullet in this season and call it a day. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a worse one.

    • Wait until next year. It’s going to be a whole lot fucking worse when we find out Bautista has a replacement level season because his power has disappeared and that Romero has become the next D-Train.

      Get ready for another complete rebuild as we await the Lansing 3. Don’t be surprised when Sanchez turns out to be the next McGowan. Maybe we can wait until he’s in his mid-30s to get any sort of value out of him.

  96. The team this offseason could be in a bind. Most of their solution would be asking for more money from Rogers. The other would be to deal from a strength (minors, offense) for a weakness (rotation).

    By not dealing Bautista or Romero last offseason to signal that the team wasn’t serious until 2015, the team hoped they would end up in contention somewhat or at somepoint between 2012-2014. They didn’t want to meet the market price for a pitcher that could be a bridge to the 2015 team.

    They now have themselves in a bit of a corner because the team performed as poorly if they had dealt both those players yet had no prospects to show for it (although hopefully both will return to form next year) and a fan base that might not show up much next year even if the team manages to be .500 if there is not a shiny toy in their Christmas stockings.

    The fan base at this point is demanding investment in the team (payroll and/or players) or just get out there and get in a playoff race. The team knows what it has in the players at the Big League level and the upper minors. Beeston threw the ball at the fans and said support us, the fans bump attendance and the team fails. Here we are, and the ball is back to the team and I hope they bump payroll than have to deal off potential success in a few years because fans could have accepted a rebuild when Alex took over, but they can’t in a year or two.

    You can’t deal Romero for value now, but if the team wanted to deal Bautista or others, I would understand if they wanted to reload for 2014. Perez, Drabek and Hutch will basically not be able to provide much next year and who knows if McGowan will ever make it back or even Litsch for some mop up action and Happ has metal in his foot too. Where are the Jays going to find the kind of number two starters that they need through trades where every team has a chance with the extra wild card?

    The Jays are in a bit of a corner now despite having a top minor league system and no burdensome contracts. It sounds contradictory, but this team could explode spectacularly if ownership and the front office don’t get this ship righted.

    • I don’t see where AA comes off acting like all we need is SP for next year. Championship caliber offense/bullpen… laughable.

    • From a practical point of view they can’t trade Bautista until he wants to leave.

      No one knows which Bautista shows up in 2013. A weak Bautista could sink the 2013 Jays.

      Could Bautista & Edwin request trades in July 2013 to help AA sell the fans on another rebuild for 2014?

      It seems far fetched.

      IMHO, AA has one shot at building a playoff ready team & he either has to trade some prospects to get the SP & 2B he needs or get Rogers to give him more money.

      If 2013 fails, then it would be easier to trade Bautista & Edwin .

  97. What’s funny is we’re going into next year not having one reliable fucking pitcher. I don’t know how people think we’re even close to contending.

    • It’s not trolling if it’s the truth, unfortunately.

      This was supposed to be a transition year, things went South- fine. It’s a big step to go from another building year to contention without a legit transition year in-between. Even though Tampa had their big jump, it was a year or two later than the pundits were calling for and were disappointing, it’s just that nobody cared about them after their extended time in the wilderness. There is a lot more pressure on the Jays to be better and it’s up to the fans to hold ownership accountable that they will have a competitive payroll (let’s start at league average or at least in the 13-17 range instead of bottom 10.

      • I just don’t see how AA can come out and state that “a lot of questions have been answered.” Sure we have seen the emergence of Edwin, but have seen big down years from Yunel and Kelly. Colby had a grand total of 6 good weeks, same with Brett — offensively speaking of course. We have no answer in LF. Are we going to trot out Lind again for another year?

  98. I see an Escobar/Hech infield and then Sierra stays in AAA one more year as depth with X new player coming in. Let’s hope it’s a legit bat.

  99. I just noticed that JPA has a .260 opb this year. For fuck’s sakes is that not a guinness record? How is it that this guy is entrenched? Maybe it’s time these guys are told that if they don’t perform they get benched.

    These guys are getting away with playing like shit on the road. It will be quite interesting to see what happens when they pull this shit off at home.

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