Mentoring 101…

Oh, the ironing is delicious. After shooting his mouth off to the Toronto Sun about the lack of accountability inside the Jays clubhouse– which we covered earlier today– Omar Vizquel was held accountable for his actions. The Jays held a closed-door meeting during which, according to a tweet from Shi Davidi, was about Vizquel’s “comments regarding accountability in Jays clubhouse. He apologized to coaches and team.”

Davidi adds a two more tweets:

So… that’s pretty much all awesome. Oh yeah? You’re going to try to save your own skin after the Escobar stuff and try to coast out of town on your bizarrely-earned reputation and longevity? Well, Omar, I think perhaps it’s time we made it crystal clear that we DO have accountability in this clubhouse, and guess who just walked right fucking into that one?

I know, I know, I tried to make clear earlier today that it’s as bad on one side to dismiss these concerns as it is to swallow Vizquel’s self-serving tripe whole hog, but I’m sorry, it really is just too rich for me to take seriously, especially now that the Jays have made so clear that they’re not buying what Vizquel is selling– and also, in light of the conveniently ill-remembered fact that last year’s narrative was that the intimidating Farrell would have supposedly never allowed Boston’s chicken and beer brigade on his watch. So… which is it, people constructing a narrative from the crumbs in their ass in the desperate need to point fingers in the wake of a disastrous season?

And, I’m not going to lie, it doesn’t help that Gregg Zaun– who would like you to support his golf tournament in support of Right To Play, just as long as you’re really, really clear that HE HIMSELF, GREGG ZAUN, IS NOT GAY– is fully on board the defence of Vizquel, and not at all for his own entirely self-serving reasons, right?

But you know what? Zaun actually offers some insight on this– for example, he tweets that “veteran leaders have to be everyday players in order to garner respect”– and I’m reluctant to entirely throw the baby out with the bathwater, as there are definite questions about what’s happened here with Vizquel, including– at the very least– how the front office seems to have got it so wrong on either him or Farrell.

It’s just… as much as people want to believe Vizquel and Zaun simply for who they are, neither has a hell of a lot of credibility on the issue, as far as I’m concerned. Vizquel bitched publicly more than once about his role on the team this season, kinda has a history of shit like this, and has all the reason in the world to want to distance himself and his ambitions as a leader from the Escobar situation. Zaun seems to crave the attention, cashes easy points for being a kind of clubhouse insider even though he hasn’t actually played here since 2008, and must be absolutely loving how directly this new narrative ties into his one-man drumbeat for a more old school approach.

So… I’m skeptical– probably more than that. But I’ll own up to the fact that it’s partly because they’re saying things I don’t particularly want to hear. It’s just… give me more before I can really believe it. Give me statements from guys who don’t have the same kind of agendas. Give me statements that aren’t so contravened by the acts of discpline we’ve actually seen– first for Escobar, now for Vizquel. I’m not saying it can’t be true, just give me more.

TV: Sportsnet

And now the lineups, by way of the live box score at And for those of you who’ll be out and about, be sure to follow all the action on your phone with Score Mobile

Toronto Blue Jays

B. Lawrie 3B
C. Rasmus CF
E. Encarnacion DH
J. Arencibia C
A. Lind 1B
Y. Escobar SS
K. Johnson 2B
R. Davis RF
A. Gose LF

C. Jenkins RHP

New York Yankees

D. Jeter SS
I. Suzuki RF
A. Rodriguez 3B
R. Cano 2B
N. Swisher 1B
C. Granderson CF
R. Ibanez LF
R. Martin C
E. Chavez DH

H. Kuroda RHP


Image of Omar Vizquel’s in-dugout handiwork during June’s Marlins series via @whatadewitt.

Comments (375)

  1. Gregg Zaun #tool

    • Couldn’t agree more. I got home just in time to hear his BS rant. Why in the name of dog does Campbell just sit there and nod his friggin’ head. He could challenge Zaun’s bullsh*t once in a while. Man I wish Rogers would give Zaun his walking papers. He brings absolutely nothing to the table. Cruz jr was a breath of fresh air when filling in for Zaun.

      • At the game tonight. I saw Zaun putting makeup on during the commercial. Jamie ignited him and was looking at papers. Surrounded by Yankee fans in 118l

        Lawrie’s just got picked off. Where’s Omar???

        • Ignored not ignited.

          • damn autocorrect, eh Oakville?

            Kick Zaun in the nuts for us!

          • I was in Toronto for the Texas series and got to the RC early for a RickyRo bobblehead and passed by the blackberry whatever and Zaun struck me as a prima donna. While Jamie put on his own jacket and mike pack Zaun had to have someone do it for him. Not that it surprised me. Jamie did a bit of a chat with some folks and Zaun acted like he could care less. I hung around long enough to watch a bit of the LLWS and then moved on.

            • What’s Zaun supposed to say. The team sucks this year.

            • Have to disagree – met him at college park metro during last years playoff series – Texas st Louis – asked him who’s gonna win – dropped his basket and went into a 10 minute commentary about how carpenter pitches this way (goes thru the motion) or if Cruz hits like this ( goes thru the swing) all the while he’s wearing paint stained shorts a dirty t shirt and buying frozen burgers and pop – so not a primadonna – just a regular guy who talks to much and uses don cherry’s tailor

              • As for visquel – went to the game after the yes cobra incident – 3 rows behind the dugout next to the dugout entrance-had 2 little kids in front of me and every time alverez got up to let the guys coming in off the field – I would tell him to toss the kids the ball in his hand -which he would pretend to throw but just walk back in the dugout- Romero eventually tossed one to the older kid – and at the end of the game after visquel interview ( he had a big game)he pretended to toss his glove to the younger kid – but instead went back in the dugout signed a ball and tossed it to the kid – so as a human nice guy – maybe he should have waited til the season was over to tell it like it is

      • I really don’t understand why everybody is so upset with Zaun and Omar, they are just telling the truth.

        Oh, I forgot FANBOYS can’t handle truth, they like to think everything is all rose and peaches. You guys probably think Pat and Tab are the greatest broadcasters in history, they never bad mouth a player and think Adam Lind is just 1 more season away from his return to glory.

        • Pat and Tab are the same person, idiot.

        • Seems to me Haters can’t handle the truth any better than the ‘Fanboys’. Its opposite ends of the spectrum for both sides. And with your Tag, are you gonna deny you’re on one of those sides?

  2. Generally, all of this is not good. Fuck this season.

  3. Whoo!! Chad Jenkins is gonna shut’em down!!!

  4. They should have sat Vizquel when he was one shy of Babe ruth. What a piece of shit.

  5. Fuck you Gregg Zaun. Fuck you for the rest of your life. Holy fuck I wish he’d get fired already. A.A.’s a “bean counter” + all the trash he’s spewed since being hired? What a clown.

  6. Longest Game Threat Ever

  7. There is a saying, something along the lines of…. There are 3 sides to every story: Mine, Yours and the truth. I’m sure somewhere in the middle of each side, is all we need to know.

  8. Can’t say I have any real problem with Zaun as their analyst. He says a lot of stupid shit, but at least he speaks his mind and expresses independent thought rather than toeing the party line.

    • I agree with you. The Zaun Cherry analogy was great. Cherry spouts every saturday and every saturday I tune in. I only agree with about half of what Cherry says but he’s passionate and I love to watch him. The percentage I agree with Zaun is much lower but he’s theatre, take him as such.

    • I think his commentary about the Xs and Os of the game is great. Much of his talent evaluation that he spouts on the radio is hair-brained. For sure he can spread things pretty thick, but I think he does have lots to offer. Better him for sure than some colourless drone.

    • I can understand liking him for the fact that he expresses his mind and is not a ‘company man’.

      But, I have a hard time listening when he gets asked to comment on any decision management related. His former player analysis is enjoyable.

      On the whole though, cant fucking stand him.

    • Exactly. He actually has a fucking opinion and he is interesting. Good to have him for the entertainment factor and alternate viewpoints. Nobody else on Sportsnet has any controversial opinions. Evar!

    • Being independent is great but what good is it if the majority of it is poorly formed thoughts. He’s no better than half of the guys that are on McCowan’s shows that are supposedly experts or up to speed on the sports they are covering. Talk about ill prepared.

      • can we at least all agree that it is better than the fucking drivel that comes out of Buck, Tabby’s and Jamie’s mouths?

        • That’s a whole other ball game. Maybe it’s time to go back to guys like Schulman who weren’t former players or actually find someone whose opinions aren’t based on tired cliches. You’ve got great examples in the radio booth to strive for and you’ve got a new younger audience that’s largely into stats.

          Fuck I miss the old days of Tony Kubek and even Don Chevrier.

          • yeah, Howarth and Ashby are pretty awesome in the booth. How can you get such great guys on the radio but such shit on tv? doesn’t make sense.

  9. In Russia, ball catches you!

  10. Settle in Jenkins, I think the bats will be good tonight. The guys should be angry.

  11. I hope Lawrie’s exit interview this year is just him watching a video of all of his stupid base running mistakes.

  12. The more things change, the more they stay the same. (Unfortunately.)

  13. I understand why people are skeptical of Vizquel’s comments but I doubt he just spat them out based off of nothing. The fact that Lawrie refused to admit he was wrong on some of his dumb base running mistakes is not a good sign at all. While I do not think the Jays are in complete disarray, they also probably do not have the best control over their players actions and it shows.

    I think Stoeten was too much of an apologist in his article.

  14. Just following on espn mobile, looks like Jenkins isn’t getting any calls?

  15. Nothing like a Chad Jenkins inning to get a good long AA interview

    • Ground control to Major Tom–the bases are loaded. It’s still happening even if you try your best to ignore it.

  16. Wonder what Yunel wrote in the dirt with his bat. Jesus, I hope no one has binoculars and a twitter account.

  17. Stoeten just can’t bring himself to say anything negative about AA or Farrell. I’m not sure who is a bigger homer between him or Wilner.

  18. Wow very good interview of AA by Buck. Even though I am still highly skeptical about Rogers’ commitment, I love what I am hearing from AA about going into next year. Of course he’s still got to produce or it’s just so much talk.

    That said I do like that he’s looking at guys like Gose, Hech and d’Arnaud as “depth” for next year more than anything. I hope that means we’ll get real talent instead of veteran place holders like Nix or Fred Lewis though.

    It didn’t sound like he was going to be shy in terms of adding the dollars or years to attract the free agents either after he admitted winning is the first thing that attracts the free agents then it’s the extra dollars.

    • AA sure talks a big game. would be nice for him to back the smack next year.

    • Yes, good to hear that his initial plan is to start all three of them in AAA in 2013. Gose and Hechavarria don’t look nearly ready offensively to play in the majors and d’Arnaud will be just coming back from injury to start next season.

      From AA’s interview, it sounded like they might fill their holes this offseason and actually try to win going forward. That would be nice, but it’s just talk until it actually happens.

      • Agree with AA on Gose and Hech. Lots of talking heads want to annoint Hech, but he hasn’t shown that he is ready for the show.

      • Yes you said it. Until they step up it’s just more rah rah talk. Even though I have big doubts about Rogers, I am still high on AA . He seems to realize that he gambled on a lot of guys coming into this season and it didn’t work out. Whether he had no choice due to Rogers’ lack of spending we’ll never know.

        Hopefully Rogers has learned that they can’t go cheap on their investment and hope fans keep supporting them. They had a perfect season to see what hope and potential will get you in terms of attendance and tv ratings and what no hope does to those things.

        • yep, agree on all counts. woulda been nice had they done something last offseason to address pitching (get Gio for example!!). everyone with half a brain knew SP was going to be an issue this year.

  19. Holy fuck. These are the Bad News Bears

  20. Escobar just got picked off third. Now Davis gets a hit .

    • You knew that was going to happen. It’s a universal law. Make an out at 2nd or 3rd the next batter has a 100% chance to get a hit.

      • Yeah, fuckhead Yunel just cost us a run with another stupid base running move. Hard to come down on him too much though…I suspect he was trying to score should another wild pitch splitter should it happen again…

        • Hard to come down on him too hard? What the fuck kind of excuse maker are you? What he did was inexcusable. You dont anticipate wild pitches in the dirt in order to make a high risk dash for the plate in the fucking second inning down 3-0 with nobody out.

          fuck me man. fuck me .

    • Now would be a good time fromstein Colby to hit a finger for dough.

  21. That will be sweet, sweet irony if they lay the hammer down on Vizquel on this one. You know what, this might be a turning point that might help they address this possible issue going forward. Vizquel left the door wide open for Farrell on this one.

    You want discipline, you asked for it Omar. Vizquel should not play another game for the Jays.

  22. Just need Swisher to fool Lawrie with the old fake the throw back to the pitcher play and pick him off for the inning to be complete.

  23. We need a couple of top of the order hitters for next year. I’m so sick of seeing Cletus hitting 2nd. Will be awesome to have Joey B hitting cleanup again as well.

  24. Wow that’s about as many hits and walks you can get over two innings and not score a single run. Impressive.

  25. hard to argue with anything you wrote in this post Stoet

  26. So a few years ago when there was a supposed near mutiny with Cito at the helm, everyone just went with it because, well….we dont like cito.

    now when someone on the actual team says that there is a lack of accountability there is all this retribution from the “fans” because, well, people like Farrell.

    so another lesson in life.

    its not whether you are right or wrong, good or bad, brave or cowardly…its about whether or not you are liked.

    • For me it’s nothing to do about who I like more. Vizquel made a douche move by shitting on his current team when there was zero need to do it in public, especially at this point in the season. All he had to do is tell AA or Farrell what he thought in private and go on his way.

      As a GM or any person in charge of others I would never hire such a snake.

      • yep. total douche bag move. you just dont do shit like that. He should know better

        • Although he is probably right. How can more communication be a bad thing?

          • I’m all for it if it really is lacking. Though it’s ironic he’s communicating his thoughts in such a stupid way.

          • Is it possible that he tried privately, but he felt he wasn’t listened to? He’s not a shrinking violet, and has the ego to assume he can jump immediately into a MLB manager’s job.

          • That’s a valid point SP. Again I don’t see a GM giving him a manager’s job next season. He was very Ozziesque in what and how he said it. I’m just not sure how well that act would go over in a lot of organizations especially after Ozzie’s new failures with the Marlins.

          • I’m certainly not saying he deserves it. Personally, after all the hype earlier in the season about his sterling mentoring skills, I am totally surprised that neither Yescobar nor Hech have said diddly squat about his positive influence (even if they don’t believe it.) Omar must feel the very definition of a fifth wheel, under-employed, ignored, being reduced to playing out the string.

      • lol. good point.

  27. At this point, we need to be loud enough for Rogers to hear that they need to provide funding to make a competitive team.

  28. Lind is a lot better defensively at 1B than EEE is.

  29. why the hell is Jenkins gone already?

  30. Well if he was gay at least that would go a ways to his over the top reaction on the Escobar debacle. You tell me:

  31. Stoet, let’s hear your rebuttle on Zaun’s comments on baserunning that he just made during the game (8:40 PM). 3 more stupid fucking baserunning moves this game. We’ve had to put up with 2 years of this fucking stupidness. They keep on fucking doing it. consequence free (that we can tell…sure Farrell might talk to them in private but really, big fucking deal.)

  32. Good job Colby. I hit a dinger now you get some dough

  33. That struckout call on Lawrie was BS. Pitch was outside. Havent seen enough to know if he has been giving that much corner to Jenkins though. I suspect not.

  34. How much rope does Colby have next year?

    To be consistent with kind he has 100 Ganes to get himself sorted out or that should be it.

    2 full seasons of ABs?

    • Should be interesting. Obviously going to depend a lot on who they can sign. There’s a few good center fielders that could push him to Left. Part of me would love that but with Gose say a year away if things go well in AAA next year, it might be the best use of their money in paying the premium for a center fielder.

      Was never a big Swisher fan but he might be more cost effective and still give you decent production from left. Being able to play Right, Left or First doesn’t hurt either. That said, seeing Gose’s good play in Left reminded me a lot of Gardner’s great D for NY in 2011. That alone can add up to a couple of wins over the course of a season. Would still prefer for them to spend the majority on their rotation.

      • yeah, i really doubt Swisher is going to be cost effective next year. I’d also like to see most of the $ go to SP next year. I dont think we can get good enough pitching next year to be serious contenders unless the stars really align next year though

    • Well, colby is well above replacement with an ops around .700 and is controllable so unless he regresses further hard to think they will cut ties with him.

    • I wouldn’t mind seeing the Jays take a flyer on a one or two year deal with Melky. Roids or no roids I personally think he’s turned the corner as a hitter. Playing in the dome would be enough to help maintain his numbers compared to the negative park effect in San Fran.

  35. I am awesome!

  36. Homer Bailey no-hitter through 7!

  37. What is that on Cecil’s face?
    Someone tell Escober to put that message back on his eye black and direct it Cecil’s way!

  38. Two.. uh home.. Uh.. Three Russle run homer!

  39. Ok ots 2016 and the Jays just qualified for the post season by capturing the second wildcard spot…(raise the banner 2017 second wild-card champs AL). We face the Twins in a 1 game play-off. Our Starting Pitcher is Noicolina, and D’Arnalt is catching. I can hardly wait!!

  40. Potatoes, you should throw your resume in to do the colour. You’re Dennis Miller-esque quotes would be a welcome change to Tabby’s tortured commentary.
    Do you have a face for TV or for Radio?

    • I have a face to launch a thousand ships, in a futile attempt to flee.

      • Rocky Dennis bad or could hair and makeup get you to replacement level?

        • I’ve got plenty of hair on my back. I’d like to think I’m a 1 FAR (face above replacement), especially since Zahn looks that spectacularly bad WITH makeup.

  41. Spud is’n't here, I think he finally is on his way to Paris. I hope for Karen’s sake the answer is TV

  42. Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi

    New low point for Jays season? Fans in stands start “Let’s go, Raptors” chant.

  43. Going to the game on Monday, only the second game I’ve been able to make it to this year. Twins and Jays, Aaron Fuckin’ Laffey vs Esmerling Vasquez…gonna be a barn burner.

  44. Leave it to Lind to confuse the future. Fuck!

    • Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.

      • Remember that they prefaced that line with “I’ll get on my knees and pray…we won’t get fooled again.”
        Also—the last two lines…
        “Meet the new first baseman
        Same as the old first baseman.”

      • I did like that you referenced George Bush at the same time. Kudos.

    • Linds numbers since his recall including his first 4 AB’s tonight:

      190 AB 54 H 7 2B 2 3B 8 HR 11 BB 37 KK

      .284 AVG .320 OBP .468 SLG .788 OPS

      18.2% K 5.4% BB

      Not fantastic, but better than probably everyone else other than EE over that time frame. I am sure the numbers would also look better if you took out AB’s vs Lefties.
      So all you need is a right handed hitting player to platoon with Lind.

      • From your lips to God’s ears, man (but only if you can promise Lind’s ‘production’ (ask Buck for the niceties) will not disappear as per usual.

      • So what you are saying is…

        In a small sample size, adam lind has put up the numbers of a decent second baseman, while he plays first or DH.

        and this is supposed to be some evidence that we should NOT dismiss his ass?

        • I think what he’s saying is that for four months he’s been decent, and his numbers against righties has actually been fairly good. A wOBA of .340 vs righties this year and a career .357 against righties. So while a Lind return may not be ideal, if you find someone who mashes lefties Lind could certainly be a useful piece.

  45. If you’re going to TankNation, you’ve got to TankNation better than your division rivals – fucking Boston is really giving the Jays a run for their money on late season suckage – they really really suck well. Pissing me off.

    • The Massholes play the Orioles twice more, then finish against the Skanks for 3 final games. Methinks they win TankNation.

      • O yee of little faith, and talk about meaningful baseball for the last series – the Jays could be in a Tank-Off with the Twinkies for draft positioning – only 3 losses separating those two currently and could be down to 1 by the time Monday rolls around for the series – Justin Morneau AND the Twinkies passing the Jays in the standings (pinch me, I think I’m dreaming)

  46. why not trade for J. Upton and a #1 starter, sign B.J. Upton, D. Ortiz a #4/5 starter all while only giving up Colby, YEscobar or Hech + prospects and cash. Call it an offseason and start planning the parade down Yonge Street.

  47. Well at least Johnson didn’t stike out 3 fuckin times tonight , although defensively he still pretty much waves at e’thing that goes by like he was on a bike or something.
    Rasmus with the standard one good at bat once a week ( tonite is the nite) and HR Frasor doing what he does best-totally blowing a game wide open by giving up fuckin homers to guys hitting .205.
    Me thinks all 3 of these fukstiks are playing somewhere else next year, although the Jays seem to like Rasmus even though he hasn’t done a whole lot-6 weeks excepted
    Cecil stunk it up Carreno followed with his usual right arm shittiness and Beck…meh
    They got some major repairs to do so get crackin Alex

    • A fukstik, it seems to me, is a measurement of futility over time. The three levels measure the likelihood of incorrigibility; to wit 1) the possibility 2) the probability & 3) the reality, incorrigibility defined as ‘not able to be corrected, improve or reformed.’ What say you?

      • Yep, in a scholarly way you crystalized what I enunciated in my post on the game threat yesterday wherein I gave a loose definition of my categorization, although your zynopsis does not appear to be sanguine enough to allow for my proposed Platinum category for the truly inept. Am working on it and may put in book format

        • Colour me and mine florid, ruddy, blood-red. My sanguineness is unequivocal, but tweak away if you must.

    • It seems that at least 3/4 of this team have now acquired fukstik status. I suggest they just change their name to the Toronto Fukstiks and be done with it.

    • It’s unbelievable how much KJ has regressed since April.

      He has close to 160 KO’s in 500 AB.

      What’s worse KJ striking out or watching Aaron Hill and his weak pop ups last year???

  48. I don’t really like having to post this but as you already know Richard Griffin is a FUCKING RETARD!

    he writes:

    “Find someone that can help you in 2013-14. Right now, the free agent outfield pickings are pretty slim, led by Michael Bourn, B.J. Upton, Nick Swisher, Melky Cabrera, Josh Hamilton (who wants more than five years), Delmon Young and Shane Victorino.”

    pretty slim? WTF? YOU JUST NAMED 7 FUCKING(potential) ALL-STARS (maybe not currently) FUCKING SLIM????? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! get anyone of those guys for LF….any single one….will be better than current rajai/sierra platoon

    what a goof

    • I think those first three aren’t bad. I don’t know if I’d pay the others what they’ll probably want.

  49. Cabrera hitting.360 and being ob base all the time for JB and EE would give them way more RBI opportunities than having Rasmus at the front of the pile that is for sure plus he steals a few bases.
    Besides, he’ll be ready to play right away as we have to wait a few weeks for our own suspended person, Stroman to show up.
    Failing that , sign Bourne

  50. Sign michael bourn trade Gose LF problem solved

    • That’s robbing Peter to pay Paul. I’m seriously hoping to see Gose in CF for a decade. (Not that I’d turn my nose up at Bourne IN LF though.)

    • Gose has no business in the bigs playing any other position other than CF. Most of his value will be in his defense and to put him in a corner is like buying a McLaren and then putting it on FIrestone tires.

      same goes for Hech.

      these guys need not be in the bigs until they are playing CF and SS respectively.

  51. Anyone read Vizquel’s comments in the Star? I would like to reiterate that he is an equivocating piece of shit.

    • You are insane sir. did you watch the game? Lawrie the ADHD victim and Gay Hater/Eye Black Man Escobar screwed up on the bases once again. Everyone can rip Zaun, Lind and Omar all they want BUT The team on the field looks like The Bad News Jays more than anything else.Omar was stating the obvious as painful as it was. These fucks have some a seriously bad case of Last Place Swagger. I have to see what their excuses will be next year if and when they tank.

      A True Blue Jays Fan

      PS To those who love Farrell The Verbose One, I hope you don’t grow too attached to him,he’ll be out no matter what. It’s surprising that the Boston media want him so badly, they can have him.Get a winning manager/team builder like a Buck Showalter in here who’s had success building a winning organization not some fucking bench coach or someone who’s never won as a manager before.

      • The baserunning mistakes hurt the Jays last night.

        They could have had a few more runs.

        We would have better pitchers in the game last night.

        The baserunning errors have to be dealt with next year.

        Witha full roster ,Farrell can take more appropriate measures.

  52. we’ll have superman for president and let Robin save the day ay ay ayayyy.
    The Jays just appear to be Thick as a Brick ( apologies to Jethro Tull).
    Litlle Milton coudn’t save these fukers

  53. Anybody else watch the 1992 World Series special on SN1 tonight?

    Cito closed it by saying that he was sure that after he’s dead he’s going to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

    • As much as I derided Cito as calling him Cito Dorito at least he kept players accountable not like this shit that’s happening now. I wanted a strong,fierce manager to replace him BUT we get this blowhard/big talking-small results Jersey John Farrell. Long Greek Man also has some explaining to do. This is all happening under his watch, a so far middling to poor watch I might add.

      A True Blue Jays Fan

      PS Thank God I don’t get the TV feed or I’d start throwing tomatoes at the big screen! Zauny has a lot of heart BUT I’d rather listen to the comically homerish Yankee radio crew who are not as bad as Hawk Harrelson the Homer Supreme BUT are close enough. Listening to John Sterling(Yankee radio announcer) is like listening to a Communist propaganda film!

      • In the seven stages of watching the Blue Jays die, you are way behind the rest of us. Acceptance is everywhere on this site, How come you got stuck on anger? Where is nurse karen? Shes into psychology, psychopothy, psychomotry, psych…ahh fuck it! You”re just one sick bastard

        • I have hit the acceptance stage as well. I was disappointed with last nights game but I was surrounded by some yankee fans. It was a good discussion with them. They were surprised that the Jays fans weren’t more angry about the baserunning mistakes the Jays were making.

          They also laughed at the Jays show with the three hats games, the “Make some noise” & why fans do the wave.
          I was very impressed with the level of knowledge of the yankee fan.

          They said the Jays need some more veteran players.

        • You have to give him some credit, he’s come a long way from his dorito rants 8)

          • Cito Doritohead wasn’t that bad wasn’t he? He’s a world series championship manager whereas Farrell the verbose doesn’t deserve to shine his shoes! Farrell should be sent pronto to the Red Sux for Fuckholz my countryman and we’ll hire a real manager. Farrel The Talker can talk off the Boston media’s head then however they’ll rip him a new asshole first.

            A True Blue Jays Fan

            Long Greek Name man AKA Smart Alec we need to pull a Dan Duquette on you! Just like the Os got a winning GM who built the 90s and Twenty Os Sux we need a smarter GM. The guy must feel pressure when The Blackbirds(who have the 25th ranked farm system) become a player while The Jays at number 2 look like rank amateurs. I’ve always hated this hire. I can’t wait until he leaves. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. He might be able to make draft picks BUT his development so far is terrible. His selection of BP arms has been rancid as well. Let’s not even mention the starters. They also need a couple of more hitters. as well. Contrary to claims by Shawn “traded for the brainless baserunner Lawrie”Marcum(who said this two years ago) and Kelly Strikeout King Johnson they are not that far away. If Smart Alec doesn’t make substantial moves next year it will be next year is our year once again!


    I wish the season was this good.

  55. I’m still calling the O/U on attendance for MON and Tue vs MInny at 8,000.
    On WED the last game, I give it maybe 16,000. Could set a record low to see virtually every fukstik play at the same time. Will be KJ’s swansong.

  56. Morosi’s latest column, where he tries his hand at being bat shit crazy. Here’s his best part, in my opinion:
    “When Farrell agreed to manage the Jays, he did so with the idea that the team was going to invest in veteran talent and compete for the AL East title.”

    I’m pretty sure that’s not anywhere close to being right

  57. Which is more likely?

    Romero makes it past 4 innings, or Stoeten posts a game threat today?

  58. How to hit like rajai David

    1) close your eyes

    2) hope for the best.

  59. It’s been a while since I watched a full broadcast on Sportsnet + already in the 1st inning I’ve heard Tabby’s “soft hands” remark + the usual about “veterans who know how to play.” How I’ve missed these guys!

  60. How about switching Escobar and Lawrie in the lineup? Escobar is about as awful of a #4 hitter as there gets.

  61. Ricky’s all about 2nd chances.

  62. Hech needs to do something with that ball.

  63. Although I dont totally disagree with Omar’s comments, he shoulda put his money where his mouth was all year and showed up early and offered more help to his manager instead of throwing him under the bus in the media. A guy with managerial asperations would have been more supportive of the coaching staff instead of pointing out flaws in the media.

    • Agreed. Omar was signed to be a mentor to the young latino players.
      Escobar regressed & got caught in a huge scandal over the maricon eye patch.

      It’s bizarre that Omar waits till the season end to trash Farrell after Farrell let him beat babe ruth’s hits in Yankee stadium.

      Omar is probably right that players need to be punished for consisent baserunning ertors.

      Unfortunately in August the Jays had no full time players.

      I wonder if his outburts cost him a managerial job nect year??

      Wouldn’t he start as a bench coach or 1B or 3B coach next year ??

  64. Sure I can see KJ making that play. Nice one Hech.

  65. Rajai is Ichiro Light(headed).

    • Long Greek Name man AKA Smart Alec we need to pull a Dan Duquette on you! Just like the “Os got a winning GM who built the 90s and Twenty Os Sux we need a smarter GM. The guy must feel pressure when The Blackbirds(who have the 25th ranked farm system) become a player while The Jays at number 2 look like rank amateurs. I’ve always hated this hire. I can’t wait until he leaves. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. He might be able to make draft picks BUT his development so far is terrible. His selection of BP arms has been rancid as well. Let’s not even mention the starters. They also need a couple of more hitters. as well. Contrary to claims by Shawn “traded for the brainless baserunner Lawrie”Marcum(who said this two years ago) and Kelly Strikeout King Johnson they are not that far away. If Smart Alec doesn’t make substantial moves next year it will be next year is our year once again!”

      That’s a funny post. If Stoeten was here , he would get very mad.

      There is a good point that The Jays have to do a better job of developing their younger talent.

      The Snider saga is a worrisome development.

      Snider 2012 was supposed to be a solid middle order of the bat based on the 2008 scouting reports.

      Romero has one of the highest ERA’s of any starting pitchers in the MLB.

      Lind is almost a bench player now.

  66. holy fuck that was a shitty looking error by escobar

  67. Well it’s been a shitty-looking season. I wonder what the suits will do in the off-season in order to try and coax fans back. They did start to return. But then everything went to hell and they walked away again. I’m honestly not sure what the front office can do. I’m surer of what they should have done last winter…

    • Funny how we all look at the same situation differently.I feel the exact opposite isabella.To me it’s much clearer what the Jays need to do this off season.It has been since July.And the good thing is, it’s now been proven that if the Jays field a competitive team,the fans will come back, both on TV and to the park. ( and to the blogs LOL)

    • +1.

      Yes, the Jays will have over 2 million attendance this year compare to 1.818 million last year & 1.495 in 2010.

      I think they made a good move by freezing ticket prices for 2013.

      There will be more pressure on AA & Rogers in the offseason.

      You can’t go into 2013 with Morrow as your only top starter.

    • ” But then everything went to hell and they walked away again”

      The Jays attendance hasn’t really dropped off all that much in the second half. Some bad crowds, but that’s to be expected after labour day when you’re out of it.

      I think they’re still drawing better than Baltimore.

    • I agree with RADAR. There are actually a lot of free agent options this offseason that won’t require a Fielder type mega deal. Plus the farm system is deep. There should be attainable options.

      If the Jays are willing to be bold, they should have the money and prospect depth to make some moves to put the team into wildcard consideration for 2013. VERY arguable, but if this had been a normal year, injury-wise, this team may have been in the wild card periphery quite late in the year. They were 2 1/2 at the end of July before they started fielding a AAA lineup for 2 weeks.

      For major additions, I’d say a #2ish and #4ish starting pitchers, and one nice bat should do it. Won’t be easy, but as I said, with the prospect depth and (supposed) payroll flexibility it seems attainable to me.

      Acquisitions like … Jackson, Anderson, Choo? Something like that..

    • @isabella – in the end, I think this year had proven that if we go into a season where fans think the team has a chance to make the playoffs, people will be engaged. When the Yankees and Red Sox were taking both possible AL East WC spots for 10 years, it was pretty hopeless.

  68. Unfuckingbelievable.

  69. Unreal Gomes.

  70. Wow. That’s all I can fucking say.

  71. Hech is so fucking awesome ;/

  72. I know that Stoeten wrote a bunch about how in a crappy season like this base running errors might be singled out. But holy shit I have never seen the Jays this bad at fundamentals.

    • With the exception of 2 teams,the Jays have given up the most outs on the basepaths in MLB..

    • Yup. The base running errors have been a problem since the first inning of 2011.

      I remember some crazy errors in the first inning last homeopener with Rajai Davis .

      • Funny what happens when you take MLB’s home run leading team and try to convert it to a small ball club the next year.

        • I agree. I thought Butterfield was in charge of teaching base running.

          WE use to complain about Cito playing station to staion baseball in 2009 & 2010.

          Is it possible that Cito knew he had a bunch of HR hitters in 2009 & 2010 so that what’s he coached the team to do.

          Did Cito ever run an aggressive baserunning team from 1989-1997??

  73. Hech has been pretty solid in September. Small sample size and I doubt he could produce so consistently over a full season, but I’d love to be proved wrong.

  74. they’re building their Teachable Moments Video Library for next year

    • Benching Gomes would have been a teachable moment.

    • I think the Jays players are trying to punk John Farrell. Every game they make base runnin errors like Escobar forgetting to tag on Hech’s fly ball to the OF. Now Gomes wants to be one of the cool kids & join Lawries’s base running school for bad boys.

      Farrel looks foolish calling out Visquel, now the Jays have made at least 4 base running mistakes since last night.

  75. Japaneses sense of honour … Ichiro evens it up.

  76. Regarding Romero’s knee discomfort….This injury is caused by the repetitive motion of having elbows on knees while holding face in towel.

  77. It was a sad end to Romero’s season. He was the only Jays starter not to get hurt.

    Hopefully he will be ready for spring training.

    • doubt he ever has a season like 2011 again. he’s not the type to just give up though, I’m sure he’ll be better next year. He’s turned it around before, for years he looked like a bust.

      • Good point. I saw his interviews in the pre game show. He looked like he wanted to cry.

        It just goes to show you how tough it is to succeed on a regular basis in the MLB.

        I bet you the Vegas odds on him being this bad in 2012 were 100 to 1.

        • Maybe just me but Romero looks much bigger than he used to. Seems like he gained some weight?

          No idea if that would affect his performance.

          • I know Adam Lind went down hill a bit after gaining some weight. He focused too much on getting ripped and maybe that contributed to his back problems?

  78. I would like to see some stats about base running mistakes this year. No idea where I would find them, but it would be interesting to see how many outs in 2012 were wasted by mistakes on the base paths.

      • 8 times caught stealing third (1st in the majors). zero for two in attempts at stealing home. Most of the stats can’t really show the many other untimely mistakes the team has made.

        • but the Jays are also 1st in the league in SBs of 3rd and Attempts of stealing 3rd, so leading in CS is not really a damning number (80% success rate).

          • except that there are times when stealing third is a stupid thing to do. we probably lost a good amount of runs in those attempts to pad stats. i.e. whenever Davis tries to steal second and third. that 80% chance of getting caught gets cut in half

    • Fangraphs also has an all-round base running stat, they have the Jays as 6th best in the majors.

      It doesn’t include SBs or CSs, which are included in their wOBA, but it also doesn’t mention Pick Offs, which is odd because they’re not included (from what wikipedia tells me) in Caught Stealings.

      • if you look at the link Radar provided (thanks Radar, that was great, I had never seen that BR page before), Jays are League Average in Pick Offs and Stolen Base %, which for a well above-average running/aggressive baserunning team (by attempts and overall SBs) doesn’t seem that terrible (19 Pick Offs total supposedly); same with Pickoff Caught Stealing, league average.

        The number that is high is Outs on Base (which is the outs from trying to stretch a base or doubled up on line drives) but it is only 9 above league average (62 vs 53), so those 9 above average outs are what everyone COULD bitch and moan about – relevant yes, but mind-blowing examples of undisciplined yahoos without any coaching guidance, I think not.

        The Jays are 3rd in all baseball in Extra Base Taken % – which is pretty, pretty, pretty good.

  79. Been thinking about the Manger, Omar, Escobar flaps of the past couple weeks. Lots of talk from the GM & others about the need for “Veterans in the room”…which I’m entirely convinced is The Cure for the Local 9….but I came across these quotes from Joe Smith and Jack Hannahan…talking about Manny Acta & what went down in Cleveland. Nothing earth shattering, certainly – but somewhat interesting in light of recent events here.


    “Our team for whatever reason didn’t seem motivated to play,” Smith said. “It’s sad when you say that about a bunch of guys that get paid to play a game. You shouldn’t need somebody else to motivate you to play this game. At the end of the day, it’s on us, but when it came that time to motivate us, there wasn’t a whole lot of it there. He was always a good guy to us personally. You can’t say anything bad about him in that way.”

    “I’ve respected the fact that Manny was a manager that let his veterans do the policing,” Hannahan said. “That’s something that I respected about him. This is the big leagues. You don’t need a babysitter in the big leagues. You need veterans to lead the way.”

  80. ^^^^^^^^

    Whoops… meant to say:
    Which I’m NOT entirely convinced is The Cure….

  81. Second wildcard hasn’t changed the AL much. Still need 92 wins. I can’t decide if I’m more or less optimistic for the ’13 season than I was last yr at this time. It’s been a shitty month.

    Funny how some of the same people saying Omar was out of line because he was signed to be a “veteran presence” are some of the same ones who discount notions like clutch ability or clubhouse chemistry. Either you an define a players contribution on an excel spreadsheet or you can’t. (you can’t).

    At least the Red Sox suck

    • I think we really have to wait and see what transpired over the winter.

      If they stand pat and do nothing, I’m not planning any parades. If they’re aggressive, and are “successful” in that aggressiveness? Sure, I’m optimistic.

      I think there’s enough of a core on this team to make a push next year with a couple key additions.

  82. So, about Hech.

    In yesterday’s post, there was this Q& A from Keith Law:

    ben (toronto)
    I know it is a small sample size but have you seen any changes in the mechanics or Gose or Hech to be optimistic about there recent offensive upticks?
    Klaw (2:04 PM)
    It’s September. Don’t get caught up in any player’s “hot” streaks now.

    Now, I understand that “it’s only September”, but are all “Septembers” created equal? Looking at only September, Hech has played 4 games vs Tampa, 6 vs Baltimore and 4 vs NYY (with 3 against Boston and 1 vs Seattle). He had hits in all games except one vs Seattle. Most of those games are against teams that had something to play for. I’m way too lazy to look at who played that day, who the pitchers are, etc, but I’d be willing to bet the Jays would have been seeing #1 line-ups (or close to it) for the majority of games. you can go back further against more good teams

    Now, I’m fully aware Sept is a SSS in and of itself, but isn’t saying “It’s September” to write off players’ performances simply lazy analysis… an easy narrative? Am I wrong in thinking this (I’m more than willing to be proven otherwise)?

    • I should add that I completely don’t expect Hech to hit .315/.351/.444 (before today), but what I’ve seen has been quite encouraging.

    • Allisauce: Your correct in my opinion. This September matters because more teams have a chance to advance due to the additional wildcard. Yes, we played contenders for the most part with their best teams on the field. And Hechavarria hit. He made the adjustments in just a few games that he needed to make at the plate to contribute offensively and his defense is off the charts. I think he’s ready to be the starting SS with the caveat that you have veterans at LF and 2nd next season. In a couple of years, he’ll be hitting higher in the order because his bat is better than first thought and he ‘s a good student of the game.

    • No I think you’re right. If the Jays had played Cleveland and Minnesota all month then, yes, but they played teams trying to win for the most part.

  83. gotta love the NY reporters, here is a sample from George King of NYPost

    Matched against the putrid Blue Jays, Ricky Romero, a pitcher ending a miserable season, and playing with a one-game lead over the Orioles in the AL East, the Yankees failed to hit in the clutch on the way to a crushing, 3-2, defeat that was witnessed by an announced Rogers Centre crowd of 36,139.

    words that caught my eye: putrid and “announced crowd”. I checked the search section at and quickly noted that George King also recently covered the Yankees on the road in Minnesota and Boston. He does like to print the crowd numbers (within the first four paragraphs usually), but in Minnesota and Boston it was strictly the number without the seeming sneer of “announced”, and hapless and suspect were as “blue” as King got for adjectives regarding other opponents (with worse records no less – much to my chagrin).

    “We have to keep winning ballgames,’’ Eric Chavez said following a 6-3 victory over the hapless Twins in front of 33,720 at Target Field.

    One wild pitch and two misbehaving sliders and the Yankees turned a victory into a crushing, 5-4 defeat to the Twins that was witnessed by 33,346.

    Watching CC Sabathia pitch yesterday and Robinson Cano hit and field in an 8-2 win over the Twins in front of 32,251 at Target Field, it was easy to believe the Yankees will cross the AL East finish line ahead of Baltimore.

    Phil Hughes made sure his club got that victory by handcuffing a suspect Boston lineup on the way to a 2-0 win in front of 38,134 muted Red Sox supporters.

    On the upside, Curtis Granderson hit two homers and David Phelps supplied a solid start to a 5-4 victory over the Red Sox that was witnessed by 37,230.

    Also, King used “putrid Blue Jays” in his report of Thursday’s game, and “announced crowd” has been used for all three game stories from here.

    and, this was from a game at home:

    “The city is my home,’’ Ichiro said following a closer-than-it-should-have-been 10-7 win last night over the hapless Blue Jays in front of 40,511 at Yankee Stadium.

    Mr. King, ahhhhhh, FUCK OFF!!

    PS. I am full-on TankNation, but Stankee Angst is fun to watch.

    • I get your frustration and the need to defend the team you cheer for, maybe he is a bit of a douche with how he’s quick to point out that these teams are inferior compared to his beloved Yankees, but he is correct with the statements.

      The Jays suck. Maybe they won’t next year, but this year they are indeed putrid.

  84. and, my hoped-for replacement for Anthony Alford at QB, Ricky Somethingorother, did not shine today thus spoiling my dream that that Alford and his injured knee would be safe on the sideline for the rest of the college football season – no idea if Alford is back in as QB soon, but Ricky did not take the reins and run with his opportunity.

  85. As the 2012 season draws to a close, you can overhear the shooters at Rogers congradulating themselves – out from under VW’s massive direct expense issue, a sustainable $80 million salary cieling for as far as the eye can see, attendance is up significantly…damn these boys deserve a raise. Hey maybe we can throw in free crying towels on sucker… aprreciation day. P.T Barnum’s got nothin on these boys.

  86. As the 2012 season draws to a close, you can overhear the shooters at Rogers congradulating themselves – out from under VW’s massive direct expense issue, a sustainable $80 million salary cieling for as far as the eye can see, attendance is up significantly…damn these boys deserve a raise. Hey maybe we can throw in free crying towels on sucker… aprreciation day. P.T Barnum’s got nothin on these boys

    • It’s up to the fans to hold ownership up to the highest standards at this point with Rogers.

    • But attendance, TV ratings and interest aren’t sustainable without some success on the field.
      IF Rogers is trying to build their own version of the YES network then interest in the product is paramount.
      And for the Stoeten cynics out there,no I don’t have access to Rogers board room, but I can add 1+1 still =2.

    • +1.

      Don’t forget the key injuries excuse.

      The PR campaign for 2013 could be if the Jays were healthy they would be competitive.

      I wonder if Farrell goes to Boston or sticks around with a contract extension.

      Seriously though ,This is put up or shut up offseaon for the Jays.

      Will the media still FAP at AA if he gets virtually nothing done in the offseason?

  87. Players I’d love to hit with a shovel:

    Rajai Davis
    Adam Lind
    Kelly Johnson

    Players I’d love to see picked up:

    Josh Johnson
    David Wright (If his 16 million option is declined and move Lawrie back to twobag)
    Dickey (knuckleballers play anywhere so there would be less worry then picking up some of the bigger name free agent pitchers from the NL)

  88. I”m not all that thrilled about a Papi pick-up. Yeah, he’s a great hitter especially at the RC, but he’s old and slow and I remember how well that worked out with Frank Thomas.

    But I’d love to get a decent 3rd baseman and move Lawrie back to 2nd. Hech and Lawrie would be an excellent combo down the middle.

    • Rockies are apparently looking to move position players for pitching. Maybe the Jays can trade a couple Tommy Johnners for Tulo? One can wish there was a cheat mode for real life.

      • I’ve been secretly dreaming about the Jays getting Tulo or CarGo for a while now. Obviously would take a lot but the Jays might just have enough.

  89. Jays playing spoilers against the Yankees = Rogers’ version of playing meaningful games in September.

    • 7 rookies at the start of the season,3 in the starting staff.
      Bunch of question marks about regression and rebound years.
      Add shitload of injuries and an over priced trade market due to the added wild card.
      A sophmore manager who feels he should manufacture runs rather than use the players he has.

      Yup, it all adds up to meaningful games in September.
      Sorry ballsdeep, wasn’t gonna happen.
      But Sept. 2013 should make you happy.

      • +1 Radar.

        What excuses does AA make next year when he can’t acquire any one?

        Do we hear the same excuses that the cost in prospects or free agent price tag was too high?

        Would AA dare pay anyone more than Ricky Romero as a pitcher or Bautista as a hitter?

        Aren’t those internal payroll parameters so as not to offend existing players?

  90. wow motorcross racing on sportsnet!

    someone explain to me why rogers bought the jays again?

    • So they could charge you for Sportsnet One.

      Do you wonder why they bought The Score?

      • They are charging for sn1

        • @ farrellstick

          I’m guessing that was a question.

          They didn’t end with the $36 per year,BTW.

          Let’s say Rogers is a money hungry,ruthless machine,like everyone says ( they are BTW).
          Don’t you think they’d like a product that makes them mo money?

          If you’d like the amount of potential households in Canada, I have the link.

          • I don’t know what your point is. sn1 costs extra for rogers customers because you have to subscribe to a higher plan. However I can watch it for free on the interent.

            As for other cable co’s rogers is trying to force them to take it. I’m assuming it’s an optional package for them now.

            rogers is just forcing games on sn1 so that they can force other co’s to take it in addition to sn. That is so ridiculous especially when you consider what a lousy product the jays are.

            You would think that at least they would spend money on the jays first, build it up to a winning franchise then try to market it but nooooo.

          • Sigh.
            Just trying to help farrellstick.
            I’ll try one more time.
            Prior to SN1, not all Jays games were televised.
            Rogers put those games and others on SN1.
            SN1 recieves a fee from the cable and satelite companies for SN1 alone.
            It conservatively adds up to an additional 10 to 15 mil per year, just in subscriber fees collected.
            The channel is included in many packages so the viewer doesn’t realize that rogers gets additional revenue.
            Not everybody watches on the internet.

      • @Radar.

        Very good point about Rogers getting an extra 10- 15 million by creating sports net 1.

        Logically, all games should be on sports net & the memorial cup games in the spring could be on sportsnet 1.

        But no one would buy sportsnet 1 for memorial cup games.

        It’s true that in 2009 there were games that weren’t on TV & you had to get the extra inings package.

        Also some games were on tsn with Rod Black, but he annoyed people.

    • It`s on Sportsnet One, but as I don`t have that I`ve got a stream. It is the Sportsnet One stream so I don’t have to be without Buck + Tabby + their insightful analysis.

  91. yunel almost gets thrown out at third again. More teachable moments and stroking for farrell

  92. justy fyi, nice play by Manny Machado here on getting Pedro Ciriaco sprinting down the line to 1st:

  93. I have learned a great deal on this site this year. Its a shame that RBI’s are a meaningless stat. Guess Yaz is the last triple crown winner,,,too bas for Miguel Cabrera as he is chasing, what is now the double crown. Well, that is unless of course HR’s and BA are no loger relevent either.
    Who is going to win the WAR title this year, that’s the question everyone is asking.

    • Birddawg, which WAR stat you talkin about, the BR one or the Fangraphs one?They’re calculated differently.

      Perhaps we should wonder who’s gonna win the “Pythag Wins” title,like why bother playin the games?

    • I’m still hoping EE takes the HR title this year. If he doesn’t it would be nice to see Miggy get the Triple Crown.

  94. lawrie reminds me of the tazmanian devil

  95. Up yours, Skanks.

  96. it was a lot more fun in May and June, but what the hell – Fuck Yeah Bretzky

  97. and how about Hech with the 10 game hitting streak (on the line today). He has a hit in 17 of his last 18 games, and 22 of his last 24 (only a .329 OBP in that stretch, but a .772 OPS because of the 2 HRs and 5 doubles).

  98. and fuck off about denigrating September stats when the opponents have been Detroit, Yankees (7 games), Baltimore (7 games) and Tampa (5 games) who are obviously playing hard to win games and whose pitchers are in it to win it.

  99. O’s could take division lead today with a big sloppy thank you to the Blue Jays

  100. I’m happy we are doing them the favour. Be nice if they won the division, everyone saying the don’t deserve it and shit like that. They deserve it.

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