As the Farrell Turns…

I’m just not sure I care enough either way whether John Farrell returns to manage the Blue Jays or not to bother making a new post about it every time the damn wind changes direction, but since it would be in absolutely nobody’s interest to let this damn thing linger, the feeling seems to be that if it happens, it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen soon, one way or the other. So I guess I might as well write about what’s out there.

Unfortunately, there isn’t any more clarity on the matter now than when we tackled it this afternoon, after Bobby Valentine’s firing became official.

For example, John Heyman wrote about the saga at CBS Sports, questioning why the Red Sox are so intent that Farrell is their man, and quoting a text message response from Alex Anthopoulos, who simply told him, “Everyone knows our policies.”

This fits nice with what Shi Davidi wrote at Sportsnet on Thursday evening, saying that “Only overwhelming the Toronto Blue Jays with a quality offer leads to John Farrell. Anything less than that equals a polite invitation to take a hike.”

And Sportsnet was laughably emphatic about it, putting a poll up at the end of Davidi’s piece, asking fans what they think Farrell is worth to Boston, with the only answers being: an All-Star, an everyday player, an elite prospect, a group of prospects, or keep him.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the Jays setting the price so high that the Red Sox couldn’t possibly do anything but balk, as USA Today’s Bob Nightengale has heard something entirely, entirely different:

Asked if Toronto’s return in the transaction would be significant, he replied “no, it will be small compensation.”

Gordon Edes of has a source that indicates the Sox will ask for permission from the Jays to talk to their manager. In yet another piece on the matter, Edes writes that “By all indications, the Red Sox want him, he wants the Red Sox — and the Blue Jays want no part of allowing that to happen.”

And yesterday, Boston Herald intern Joon Lee caught Peter Gammons speaking on the reported fissure between Farrell and Alex Anthopoulos, presumably on the MLB Network, where he transcribes that the venerable writer confirmed Jen Royle’s rumour, and added that, as far as moving him goes, “I think they are going to be more willing than people think. I think there is a clear split between John and AA.”

Yes, this is really all happening a-fucking-gain. But the Jays are in the driver’s seat here– they won’t grant him permission to interview with Boston unless they’ve truly soured on him, or they’re getting something significant in return. So… whatever.

Comments (136)

  1. Amen to that!

    • Wont hurt my feelings if Farrel stays or goes. But im leaning towards saying goodbye if a quality player comes back in a return. Then give the reins to Sal Fasano imo.

      • Absolutely. McCown was discussing this yesterday, saying “if Boston offered Buchholz for Farrell, would you do it?” and clearly the answer is yes yes yes. He also opined that this doesn’t just go for Farrell – if the Angels offered Jered Weaver for Joe Girardi, the Yankees would do that deal in a heartbeat too.

        I am fairly neutral on Farrell; if a great piece comes back, do the deal. But, Boston isn’t that stupid, so I highly doubt that would happen.

        • Trade Farrel to the Sox for something … Buchholtz would be great but whatever, and then bring Terry Francona in to replace him! Trade the apprentice for the master! Francona has worked with an eager, young GM before.

        • I’d take flyer on Lackey as comp. if some coin was thrown in

      • If Farrell goes, I wonder what the Boston media’s finders fee will be?

        Seriously, this shit has to happen now. Either he fucking goes, or he stays. Either way, the whole Mexican standoff shit has to end like right the fucking now.

        AA has too many things on his to-do list in the offseason. Having to deal with and answer to all of the crap being spewed by the Boston media (which is now creeping into Toronto and elsewhere) will be a big distraction.

        This shit needs to end now.

  2. Farrell is a knob

    Cherington is a knob

    Nightenfail is a knob

    Get rid of these knobs

  3. My main issue with losing John Farrell is that AA spent a lot of time on his manager search two years ago. He repeatedly talked about how it “consumed” him.

    I want AA to spend his time on trades and free agency. If it can be quick and return a good asset in return, then go for it.

    Otherwise I don’t see a big deal with letting Farrell play out the last year of his contract regardless of whether or not his “heart is in Boston”.

  4. So….? Who cares, am I right?

  5. Trade him and let Omar coach the jays

  6. Let him walk and hire Tito.

  7. love that troll face by Farrel…all like ‘FUCK YOUUUU T DOT’

  8. I’m surprised that no one’s talking about Ryne Sandberg this year. He should be the next non-retread manager to be given a chance.

  9. Ok how about let Adam Lind coach, and get a real first baseman

  10. Sal Fasano

  11. EE can DH

  12. I will not miss Farrell.

  13. So I guess you think frasor is an idiot too. It takes a leader to make that kind of statement

    • Omar has been playing the North American market for 23 years…would it have it hurt for him to clue Yunel in to some of the cultural differences?

      Also, BIG difference between a borderline HoF candidate and a decent relief pitcher in regards to the gravitas they are afforded by their teamates in the clubhouse.

      • Plus the bullpen mopes have their own thing going. They stay out in the pen and leave the dugout to the rest.

    • they were supposed to be part of the “leadership.” can’t point fingers without looking in a mirror first. good riddance to both

  14. Am I ryth?

  15. Farell can squeeze a three year deal out of boston instead of a 1 year with toronto so yeah get rid of him if you can get a decent prospect. It’s a win all around. And when you have legit manager candidates like alomar and martinez available fuck what is the hold up?

    does alex actually think this bozo will win 95 games for us next year? Just give the job to luvullong time, can’t be any worse.

    Keeping farrell is a no win. If you don’t extend him now, why would you give him a 3 year deal after next? And why would he accept when he’s a free agent? And if he sucks next year you’re going to fire him anyways.

    • well…unless you like kurcz, the bosox didn’t get much for theo. so…anyone thinking ruby de la rosa, or whatever is coming this way is probably misguided.

      • difference is Boston gave permission to Cubs where jays can ask for agreed compensation if he signs and then let them discuss a contract, otherwise jays can tell them nicely to pissoff.

        Thus any mention to the cubs is missguided.

  16. just hire butters. bring up mottola to be the 3rd base coach (ie. second hitting coach).

    problem solved. let’s move on.

  17. This is such a stupid non-story-story. but, while i dont like his bullpen management at all, you could do worse than farrel. imagine if we had dusty baker, charlie manuel or don mattingly. good god. we’d all be crying to have farrell back.

    • how can you do worse when you lost 89 games?

      • Farrell didn’t lose. The players lost. Your assignment of managerial worth is overstated, for better or for worse.

        Anyway until the injuries, they were close to the wild card in the toughest division with a bottom third payroll and not one premium free agent signed in the offseason. Farrell has done nothing tangibly wrong. And none of know anything about inside the clubhouse. A few grumblings after a bad second half is par for the course.

        Fuck sakes.

  18. honestly just let him go. why trade him, if you dont want him here past this year just let it go and worry about putting someone in place who is a better manager

    • “De La Rosa” -Cherington

      “Nah man, its cool. We don’t even really want him anyways dont worry about it just have him” -AA

  19. If Farrell goes to Boston I want compensation simply because we would be doing a divisional rival a pretty big favour. “Oh you like our manager, here you go!”

    Fuck doing Boston any favours, even if Farrell isn’t the best manager for the team.

    • how is it doing them a favour when he loses 90 games for them? This is a classic trojan horse.Let him fuck up their lineup, run into outs, bring in bard to face lefties. Can’t wait to see their reaction.

  20. Just saying. Trade Farrell, then wine and dine Terry Francona. I mean it is almost guaranteed not to happen but imagine what a “Fuck you” to Boston, their players, and their fans that’d be, especially if Francona led the Jays to the playoffs.

    • this is my dream. Francona is a top 5 manager in baseball – the way the Sox scapegoated him is hilarious. i would overpay for him.

      • @ Scott.

        Yep me too. Get rid of him to Boston and let him learn his trade there. I don’t like his in-game management and never have. That’s where a manager does lose games for his club and he’s lost us a few.

        • And I managed to lose some of my post about agreeing that Francona would be the hire that would just infuriate the Massholes and be great for us.

  21. The Rox will have to better the compensation precident set by Guillen going to the Marlins. AA isn’t going to do a division rival any favors, so it will take at least 2 top 10 prospects. ..if that’s the case, jump at it….I would want Tito, but would have absolutely no problem with Wakamatsu or Fasano managing the Jays.
    The fact that I could really care less if Farrell stays or goes tells me it might be time to try something new. I know there were a shit ton of injuries, and the talent level was lacking with no solid depth….but I wasn’t a real fan of the way Farrell dealt with shit…just my 2 cents

    • The fact that the jays went 10-18 in sep even with the sweep of twins should be the nail on the coffin. What is the excuse for that shitty record?

      Guillen has a lot better track record to justify, farrell can’t command that.

  22. If the Jays trade him to Boston, it will just be for some PTBNL and that’s fine. Farrell can go and we can get another shot at getting a decent manager. Boston’s gone to the dogs and they can have Farrell to manage the scrubs that are left over.

    All of this drama is pointless and, Stoeten, I wouldn’t blame you if you never post another piece on this subject until something actually happens. Though I bet you’re getting a ton of hits from it!

    • It better be more than a ptbnl. No reason to do the massholes any favours. If they want Farrell that bad, they have to give up someone significant either on the ML roster or very close to the big leagues like De la rosa. If theyre not willing to give that up, tell them to fuck off. Jays cant be seen as walkovers to the entitled boston media and fans.

  23. I thought this was a very interesting read on what the Jays could receive in a Farrell to Boston trade:

    • Here’s my favorite line from the article:

      “Should the two sides accept the Marlins-White Sox negotiations as fair precedent — and there’s no apparent reason why they would not — that means the Red Sox would pay a steep price for Farrell.”

      ok buddy…and there is also NO APPARENT REASON WHY THEY WOULD..

      • Because if the jays want that just to talk to farrell then they have two options, yes or fuck off.

    • The author didn’t like giving up the #4 and #5 prospects so he suggests #6 and #10 – citing the Sox organizational depth at 3B with Will Middlebrooks as a reason. Hmmm.. Toronto Blue Jays 3B.. No can’t think of any long-term option there..

  24. All you Farrell haters are a bunch of typically Torontonian, bandwagon, tittfuckers.

    Like he is the reason the Jays sucked?

    Fuck off and hate Romero for being a mental drama Queen, hate Davis for being a Meth addict in left field and on the bases, and hate Rogers for being a bunch Wisers sippin, casmere wearing office fucks that don’t give a cunt hair about us fans.

    See you fuckfaces next year at Opera Bobs so that I can insult you all to your faces.

  25. Trade Farrel already big fuckin deal. Hand the reins over to Sal Fasano.

    • Jim Duquette seems to rival Rosenthal for most likely to throw out a random assertion and immediately follow up with “well, we really don’t know.” No wonder he’s gone from being GM of the Mets for a year to fill in commentator on their radio broadcasts.

  26. LMFAO. Bobby V: “John Farrell. Wow, I thought he already had a job,” Valentine said when Farrell was brought up. “Maybe there will be a trade, is that what you mean?”

  27. It’s incredible that there is not one Farrell defender in the comments.

    The thing I most like about Farrell is that he doesn’t peg players right away. He gives them a chance to grow into a role. Unfortunately, players really don’t have that much development slack at the big league level. What he does would be tremendous at AAA or during Spring Training. Players have to prove themselves by then or else are governed by results. The clearest example of this was with that righty killer … fuck what’s his name… quick fangraphs check… Ah, yes! Octavio Dotel was that fellow who Farrell gave a chance to face lefties too. He held on too long instead of letting results dictate that his role must be a ROOGY.

  28. All you people that think Butters is the answer are woefully mistaken. There is a reason why he has never been seriously considered for a managerial position despite the respect he has in the game. He is not manager material. He is a solider, not a leader. When I hear him speak, its like something is missing…like maybe he just isn’t that smart. One of those dudes that you would love to have working on the assembly line but not designing it…someone like Carl from Slingblade. Carl could fix lawn mowers and murder assholes, but he could not manage a baseball team. Same thing with Butters

    • That was fuckin epic!!!

      • Alaskan ghost rider fuckin nails it Large. And Butter didnt exactly get an A plus grade with the baserunning blunders all season.
        All I keep hearing lately is how AA and Rogers are gonna get off their wallets, well they can start by making an offer to Paul Oneil to manage after they ship Farrel. Get Paul busting some Louisvilles and tossin Gatorade pails up in this B*tch!!

  29. Honestly – whatever! Just figure it out soon so AA can focus on trades and free agents.

    Farrell wants to leave? Try to get a good prospect for him and sign Sandy Alomar Jr or Francona.

  30. There is nothing as unimportant as the AL East manager.
    Who cares what happens.

  31. trade him for a bag of balls. Anything Boston gives up beyond that is gravy.

  32. Sounds like a lot of Boston Red Sox fans in the media if you ask me…

  33. I’m completely ambivalent to Farrell’s fate. I don’t dislike him, but I don’t find that he’s any great shakes. He seems to be able to manage a bullpen pretty well, but other than that, I can’t think of any definite positives.

    • Never be anything more than an average manager

    • I agree. I don’t hate the guy, but I’m somewhat indifferent.

      What I cannot grasp is if these reports are true (they might contain some merit but are probably insanely exaggerated), why does Boston want him so badly? Do they even remember why they want him in the first place, or are they so bent on getting anything they want that requiring Farrell just consumes them? Like a customer who wants a sold-out product that isn’t available because of an artificial lack of supply, making them want it all the more. People don’t like being told they can’t have something.

  34. I like that one of the “cons” ahgainst Farell in the Heyman article is that numerous pitchers got hurt this past season ..

  35. Hard to grade JF because of all the injuries. However he did upgrade the bullpen with closer. Hopefully Jays can sign Oliver for next year

    • Haha, Oliver’s interview before the 3rd to last game of the season was priceless.
      Q “what was your favourite part of the season?”
      A “Opening day, with all the crowd and possibilities for the season”

      he’s not coming back

    • I’d be inclined to lay some blame for Perez, though. Was he the only fucking reliever available every fucking night, John?

  36. Here’s the thing: Boston has NO leverage.

    So what if Farrell’s contract is up at the end of next year? What is Boston going to do? What is Farrell going to do if he DOES want out? Hire another manager on a one-year term? Who signs up for that job, seeing what happened this year, and seeing the landscape? Does Boston tank another year waiting for a freakin’ manager?

    I don’t think so.

    So it’s now or bust for Boston. It’s now or bust for Farrell (if he actually wants out). That leaves Toronto holding all the cards. You want him, you pay. Through the nose. EVEN IF there’s a “rift”.

  37. I love me some Sal, but I fear that he would be just another manager who follows tired old methods (pitcher wins, save to the slave, etc).

    I’ve heard that Tony Lovullo is acquainted with sabr methods, which is encouraging, but I don’t know much else about him.

    My preference is Dave Martinez, who gets a lot of credit for some of the radical stuff Maddon comes up with, and is also apparently an excellent communicator with the team….plus he can do a playoff beard like no other.

    Tim Wallach was also prime managerial material when he signed on as Mattingly’s bench coach in LA.

    Not sure if Wakamatsu would garner consideration.

    Esssentially, Farrell’s managerial skills are completely fungible and if AA is offered as much as a Keg Classic Dinner in exchange, he would be ahead of the game.

    And I like Farrell, but he is replacement level, as are 90% of managers., including Francona.

  38. YES! It took two days, but the twitter idiots are BACK!!!

    Get ready for an awesome offseason!!

    RT@FarrellBall Source: #Jays are looking to receive compensation for Farrell.. Have been given a list of players from #RedSox (Jackie Bradley Jr. included)

    • Hahahaha. Oh man.

      I wish Twitter had a “vote down” feature, so that if a tweet got “voted down” 10 times (or something), other Twitter users wouldn’t be subjected to having to read it.

  39. There are very few Farrell supporters on here. I wont claim to be one who believes the Jays need him back next year, I somewhat unsure of what he really is as a manager.

    What I will say though, does anyone here really believe that a Terry Francona, or Sal Fasano, or even a Joe Maddon would be able to do better with a team decimated by injuries and was at multiple points in the season forced to field a team that had Yunel Escobar or Kelly freakin’ Johnson in the cleanup/5th spot in your lineup!
    All I am saying here is, even though this year wont go remembered as one in which the manager did a great job, its definitely one in which its difficult to accurately judge him.

    • i don’t blame the terrible year on Farrell. I just don’t think he’s worth holding on to if an other team is going to give you legitimate prospects in return.

      There is certainly a case to be made that he is NOT an effective manager. His in-game decision making skills are horrendous. Regardless of how overblown “leadership” is in the media there were certainly enough red flags throughout the year to question whether he had adequate control of his young guys (especially now that many of the older players have spoken about it).

      He isn’t terrible – and frankly I had always thought he had the tools to be a good manager – but regardless of the team’s collapse – his performance is still out there to be judged.

      • Everyone will judge there is no doubt about that. I cant tell you how many times I questioned his in game decisions as well. The sending Vizquel to steal second with 2 outs in the ninth inning of a 1 run game still sits very uneasily with me.

        All I am saying, to take this season as a whole, look at the win-loss record and say this manager sucks is an unfair assessment, not to mention incredibly short-sighted.

        • Completely agree. The record isn’t on him. But his body of work over the last two years is certainly fair game. Good or bad.

    • Maybe Perez wouldn’t have been used every fucking night!?

  40. Can we get Tito if Farrell goes? Maybe AA calls up Tito and says “Hey buddy, you want some revenge on your old team? We do too!”

  41. Manny Acta
    Sandy Alomar Jr
    Dave Martinez

    These are the guys I’m primarily interested in in Farrell goes. And if Farrell goes, you’ve got to get something. The optics of letting JF go for free are terrible. As others have noted, the White Sox got the Marlins #4 & #5 prospects for Guillen. Something like that would suit me just fine. The Red Sox do have some very nice young talent in the minors.

    If Farrell goes, as much as I like the guys mentioned above, I think we’re more likely to see a fast internal hire. Butterfield, Lovullo or Fasano.

  42. The Jays should absolutely be listening on Farrel.

    The Marlins gave up their #4 and #5 prospects to get a year of Ozzie Guillen. If I’m AA I’m trying to facilitate this as quick as possible and then interviewing Tito and my internal candidates asap.

    If they don’t want to give up two prospects go for one big one. Xander Boegarts or Matt Barnes.


    maybe send bawstan dwayne-o murph as well. fuck.

    • Wow Aaron Hill is KILLING it. Fuck I fucking hate Kelly Johnson so fucking much. He’s the Griffen of my entire life as a Blue Jays fan. Sorry Josh Towers and John Rauch… actually lets just make it my Griffen for this year. Forgot how many shitty Blue Jays there have been just in the past decade.

      • Glad to see your hindsight is 20/20, turdburglar…

        • Didn’t say we shouldn’t have traded Hill – he clearly wasn’t putting it together here for some reason. But I’m pretty sure its not hindsight to say Kelly Johnson was a worthless sack of dog shit this year. Well, I mean technically it is I guess.

          Either way, fuck Kelly Johnson.

          • I seem to remember reading that AA was less than happy when KJ accepted arbitration.
            Could it be that KJ was acquired to gain another comp pick? Then AA got stuck with him.

    • I’m definitely in the camp that thinks Murphy sucks.

    • Hill is hitting .300 now? fuck off. he has never hit .300 in his life before.

  44. Oh please for the love of god let this be resolved soon! I don’t even care how, just end it.

  45. Farrell’s strength has been his media presence and not neccessarily his team management.He seems to to fail on his abilty to adjust to the situation or the talents of the players.His ridgidity in trying to outsmart everybody by insisting left-right batting lineup,sacrificing at almost every oppurtunity,trying to steal a base when everyone in the park knows it’s gonna happen even at the expense of opening up a hole on the right side,a reported lack of relaying his philosophy to the players ( ie running through stop signs,bunting on your own) a preceived lack of leadership in the clubhouse,etc.

    That being said, I wonder if the speculated rift between him and AA has to do with what Farrell has been told about the mandate of the club over the last two years and the injuries from this last year fucked up the plan..

    Note to Stoeten: No I don’t know what goes on in the inner workings of the Jays.Just pure speculation on my part,but it answers an awful lot of questions in my fucked up mind and keeps me calm.

  46. Jays needs starting pitching…Sox covet Farrell. they wont trade a starter for a manager. However, Farrell may be a launching point. Sweeten the pot some more with prospects and ask for Buckholz. Everyone gets something then. Promote Butter and get on with the offseason.

  47. So apparently, Steve Simmons did a segment on WEEI & said something along the lines of : ‘The Jays are ready to make a deal w/ Boston for Farrell if a deal is out there…’

    Why the fuck would anyone call up Steve Simmons….of all people (!) for his opinion? Laughable.

  48. Farrel sucks shit. The only negative thing about him leaving is that he has 2 years worth of knowledge on our players. That certainly gives him an advantage when the Sox play the Jays. Other that that… who fucken cares, Farrel sucks.

  49. We should get Ozzie.
    Think of how many “maricons” would be overheard in the clubhouse.

  50. Assuming Farrell is gone…. which is a strong likelihood, I think Tito would certainly see Toronto as a good fit. Cleveland is the only other spot, and I think Toronto’s stock will be on the rise, as despite this season, we still have a hell of a lot of potential.

    • yeah, i don’t think so. not with our starting pitching. if we can get some starting pitching then he might think about it

  51. I’m guessing Alomar gets the Cleveland job. The Indians are a mess, and the Tribe will have to hire Alomar, along with Vizquel as one of his coaches just to get any attention down here next year. The Indians were in the bottom 3 in attendance, They’ll have to bring back reminders of the “glory days” to entertain their ignorant fan base.

    Guess #2, Farrell goes back to Boston. You know what they say- “be careful what you wish for”, that applies here. The fall of the Red Sox has more to do with bad ownership decisions and self centered players than it does the guy in the dugout. Francona and Valentine were the fall guys, but if Farrell goes there and doesn’t fix things overnight, they’ll be calling for his head too. The kind of guy the Red Sox need is sitting in a rival dugout- Buck Showalter.. Buck would rip the players a new a-hole and stand up to the media. So would Jim Leyland for that matter, although Leyland isn’t going anywhere and neither is Showalter.

  52. The way the redsox are chasing Farrell this year just sets them up to fail once again. So let them have him. We don’t need the drama.

    A replacement from the bluejays coaching stuff is underwhelming. Take Tito or Sandy. And do it FAST.

    Then stop focusing on the bloody coaches and minor league prospects who are 3 years away and get some more major-league talent on the roster.

  53. Farrell + Escobar +Gose + Syndergaard for Pedroia and Bucholz

  54. Well, shit. The Tito Francona option is now gone as apparently Cleveland is going to hire him, as per a report on Sportsnet.

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