Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of, with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Jays Journal gives an impressively lengthy primer on the middle infield prospects in the Jays system– from Hechavarria on down through the low minors. Good stuff.

Jose Bautista tells Chris Toman of that his surgically-repaired wrist would be ready to play games in a month, he figures, and that all is well on his road to recovery.

Excellent stuff from Bluebird Banter, who take a long look into what the hell went wrong with Brett Lawrie this year, and also put John Farrell in a Bill James-style managerial box.

Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe tells us that the Red Sox still want John Farrell desperately, but “if the Sox cannot pull Farrell away from the Toronto Blue Jays, an impressive list of alternative candidates is being assembled,” which he then reviews.

Mike Rutsey of the Toronto Sun reminds us that Charlie Beltran reportedly turned down an offer from the Jays last winter that was for a longer term and more money than what he eventually took to play for the Cardinals. Ugh.

Elsewhere in the Sun, Bob Elliott does some heavy lifting for the Hall of Fame campaign of Jack Morris, with the same old arbitrary end-pointed and thoroughly pointless stats (most wins in the 80s!), and a whole bunch of narrative.

Money reader comment on Elliott’s piece, by way of @largebill68: “His election would greatly lower HoF standards for pitchers and and a dozen or so similar or much better pitchers who could legitimately ask why him and not me. ‘His’ most win of the 80′s thing is as much or more an argument for Trammel or Whitaker than for Morris. Wins are a team stat foolishly assigned to pitchers as though they are the only people on the field. Ignore the team stat and Morris is a pretty average pitcher who had a few great games a lot of so-so games and a bunch of stinkers.”

Because I missed it last week, Bluebird Banter also points out that Las Vegas has the odds on Josh Hamilton signing with the Jays at 10-1. Who in Las Vegas say so? We’re not told or linked. But that ties the Jays with the Pirates as the eighth-most likely destination.

Crowdsourcing at FanGraphs continues, as they ask what readers think the various free agents at first base will sign for.

Cubs TV play-by-play guy Len Kasper guests at Baseball Prospectus and talks about bringing sabermetrics to the broadcast booth. Wait, what? That’s possible????

Deadspin looks at the PED aspects of Derek Jeter’s injury. No, really.

Lastly, at Getting Blanked, Parkes looks at the Omar Infante play from the other night and demands instant replay. Like… now.

Comments (47)

  1. “Elsewhere in the Sun, Bob Elliott does some heavy lifting for the Hall of Fame campaign of Jack Morris, with the same old arbitrary end-pointed and thoroughly pointless stats (most wins in the 80s!), and a whole bunch of narrative.”

    And the most important pointless stat of all – HE PITCHED TO THE SCORE!

    • I’m fine with Jack Morris getting in the Hall of Fame. There are worse pitchers than Morris in the Hall already.

      But, I’m only really okay with Morris getting in on one condition: that Dave Stieb gets in first. Stieb had a shorter career, cut down by injury, but if you’re going to elect Morris than Stieb has just as good a case. He was every bit as dominant as Morris in the 1980s, if not more so.

  2. We have gone over the Beltran shit…

    I could have sworn it was less about Canada or the turf than it was the fact that Toronto wanted him to DH more than he was willing to do. That’s why he went NL.

  3. Stoeten,thanks for the Jays Journal link.Good stuff indeed.

    • It is actually quite fucking depressing. Obviously not the current front office’s fault… but… damn.

      • I see your point, but I appreciate the depth of the analysis.

      • Why isn’t it the current FO’s fault? Looking at both middle and corner infield prospects, other than Hech (who is still in no way a sure thing) the Jay’s really have zero players making a case to be a top prospect.

        How many AA drafted position players have been pushing their way up the top prospects list in the past 3 years? (Marisnick was a JP pick)

        Pitching is incredibly important, and they have some great young talent. But there is a huge hole in positional prospects, when guys like Cooper, McDade and Sierra are getting hyped up as the future you know there is a problem.

        • Meh, I think AA could address the middle infield issue at the minor league level in a heart beat if he wanted to. His draft philosophy seems to involve taking the best available player, rather than addressing needs on the big league roster.

          If necessary, he could probably trade off some of the glut of pitching depth for middle infielders.

          With that being said, baseball’s minor league systems are pretty unique in the fact that sometimes it takes 4, 5, 6 years to see the fruits of your labor. AA and his regime should be given a couple more years to completely turn the farm system around before you can adequately pass judgment.

        • All of his drafted position players have been teenagers, so arguing none of his prospects have got the majors yet is foolish. How many 19-20 year olds make it to the bigs. Especially sandwich pick guys. besides trout…

      • The prospects on the middle infield primer have lots of potential, but unfortunately outside of Hechavarria they’re years and years away from Toronto. Shortstops most often come from Latin America, so this is all part of the developmental process. Elite, high level shortstop prospects are few and far between, which is why when they surface they’re among the elite in all of baseball (think Profar). Few systems are particularly wealthy in that regard, so I wouldn’t criticize Anthopoulos too much.

  4. my computer crashes everytime i go tot he new SB nation sites (like bluebirdbanter)


    is this unique to me or anyone else having the same issue?

  5. 10 to 1 odds on the Jays signing Josh Hamilton? I don’t know about that. But, shit wouldn’t he look good in the Jays batting order? EE, Joey Bats and Hamilton would even make guys like Adam Lind better cuz opposing pitchers would have to change the way they approach the Jays lineup. Nice but dream on huh?

    • Hamilton’s atrocious plate discipline would definitely fit in with this Jays line-up.

    • Signing Hamilton to anything more than a 2 or 3 year deal is 10x worse than signing Fielder at his price.

      There is a reason Nolan Ryan is pushing one of the best hitters in baseball out.

      • Signing anyone as a free agent for more than 3 years is a risk. But thats not the market for elite hitters. How would ya like to be the Yankees sittin with A Rod and his contract right now? I’d sooner pay for 2 years of Hamilton suckin than what the Yankees are enduring fro A Rod. Give Josh a 5year deal and play meaningful games in Sept. for at least 3 years.

        • Josh is not a panacea. The Jays need so much more than one middle of the order bat.

          Besides, Hamilton will get paid. Someone will give him 6-8 years. Who the fuck thought that Fielder would have got the deal he got? All it takes is one fucking GM.

          • I know. Thats the part that sucks. Someone will totally overpay. Signing the top free agents is always a huge risk. But , after this year, the Jays gotta start takin a risk. They need another bat. I would take the trade route for starting pitching which is also a risk. If Hamilton were signable… do it. then trade for a guy like Brett Anderson and sign a veteran innings eater who keeps ya in games. Nothin flashy, maybe a Millwood or Guthrie on a one year deal. this allows Alvarez to stay at AAA and free’s up a spot for Drabek and/or Hutch when the recover. I know I don’t know shit, but sounds good to me. lol

        • You missed the point, Hamilton is a far bigger risk than Fielder, who the Jay’s thought was too risky last year.

          He was worth only 3.3 WAR this year and he was “relatively” healthy, 43 homeruns are nice but he’s really not that big of an impact mainly because he can’t take a pitch or stay healthy.

          • True. Thats why I called it a “dream” earlier. However, if I were takin a chance, I would do it on Hamilton over Fielder or Albert. Call it a gut feeling or stupid thought but it is was it is.

          • If there were a massive, off-season signing by the Jays, I’d much rather it be Greinke than pretty much anybody else.

            Hamilton simply cannot stay healthy and has no plate discipline.

  6. re. Las Vegas odds on Josh Hamilton signings ..

    So .. can you actually bet on this stuff? what would stop say Nolan Ryan from putting down a $5,000,000 bet on the Rangers signing him, then signing him? hmmmmm

  7. fuck does this site piss me off sometimes
    waaa waaa… spend more money
    waaa waaa. …. dont give him that money, theres a risk
    waa waaa…. the tigers are idiots for giving prince that money, they may have a bad contract on their hands after five years of world series runs

    • Laugh. Way to generalize.

      I think people on these boards would like to see the Jays spend a little more cash on the team, but that doesn’t mean they have to spend for the sake of spending. You bring up Fielder — but what about the Angels and the acquisitions of both Pujols and Wilson and not a playoff berth to show for it? Five years of World Series runs from the Tigers? Following the Fielder contract? We’ll wait and see.

      I don’t speak for everyone on these boards, but I’d much rather overpay with cash than years. We were so happy to get rid of Vernon Wells, only to have people wanting to immediately fill that void with another massive FA signing.

      Spending money doesn’t just mean increasing salaries on the ML roster. After an injury-laden season, I’d love to see money invested on strength and conditioning training (or at least some sort of investigation as to what may have went wrong). We have all the prospect depth in the world, and some highly regarded/high ceiling prospects — but we seem to be struggling to develop these players. What about bringing grass to Rogers Centre? Or perhaps the construction of a baseball-only, outdoor ballpark?

      • definitely generalizing,

        I feel like as fans we should be happy if our team wants to sign a perennial mvp candidate to mash home runs, not complain that we may not be posturing ourselves for future success. Personally, if they went out and got josh hamilton to play left, and spent way too much money to get grienke, I would consider moving to toronto so I could have season tickets

    • Exactly. The Jays had a few bad contracts on their hands before (Ryan, Wells) and didnt do shit.

  8. As poor a stat for pitching performance as pitching wins are, the most ridiculous thing about the “Most Wins of the 80′s” argument is that it is completely arbritrary…for example, the guy with the “Most wins from 1976 – 1985″ does not have a catchy ring to it, and therefore this would never be used to justify a hall of fame pitcher.

  9. Was just thinking if i was AA, these would be my offseason moves. (if options, or players are not re-signed)

    1. Sign SP Shaun Marcum 3 years/$27m
    2. Trade SS Yunel Escobar for SS Asdrubal Cabrera (move him to second)
    3. Sign SP Jake Peavy 5 years/$60m
    4. Sign DH David Ortiz 2 years/$28m
    5. Sign LF Melky Cabrera 2 years/$10m
    6. Trade 1B Adam Lind for prospects or relief pitching
    7. Re-sign RP Brandon Lyon 3 years/$12m

    These moves would fill some big holes for the jays and would create a roster looking something like this:

    C J.P. Arencibia/ Travis D’Arnaud
    1B Edwin Incarnation
    2B Asdrubal Cabrera*
    SS Adeiny Hecchevaria
    3B Brett Lawrie
    LF Melky Cabrera*
    CF Colby Rasmus/ Anthony Gose
    RF Jose Bautista
    DH David Ortiz*/Travis D’Arnaud/J.P. Arencibia

    SP Brandon Morrow
    SP Jake Peavy*
    SP Shaun Marcum*
    SP Ricky Romero
    SP Henderson Alvarez/ J.A. Happ

    C Jeff Mathis
    OF Rajai Davis

    MR Darren Oliver*
    MR Aaron Loup
    MR Sergio Santos
    MR Luis Perez*
    LR Brad Lincoln
    LR J.A. Happ*
    SU Steve Delebar
    SU Brandon Lyon*
    C Casey Janssen

    Of course these are just some fun ideas, but wouldn’t that roster look pretty nice!

    • Is he gonna do that with an xbox or ps3?

      • Lol… +1

        It is pretty fun playing fantasy GM though, but I can’t wait to see what really unfolds after the World Series. I’m hoping the d’backs and/or Indians are involved. I still feel that people are too quick to write off AA. I’m sure he’s got some ninja moves up his sleeve.

    • Fun it is, your team has potential and lots of change. Everything you say could happen, but getting something for Adam Lind – you are dreaming !

      • I don’t see anything you listed as being realistic.

        Melky probably signs a one-year deal around 10-12 million.

        Marcum is not worth bringing back. They already have problems with Lind’s work ethic, I’m sure they don’t want to bring back another one. Obviously he’s aging and coupled with his already poor velocity… could easily become fodder in the AL East sooner rather than later.

        David Ortiz seems the most realistic. I think the BoSox are going to need a year or two to rebuild and re-group, and they might be best served by letting him walk. However, I think in their market, it is very difficult to tell the fanbase you are “rebuilding” before the year even begins. Ortiz is one of the faces of the franchise, and I can’t see them letting him walk — especially when he’d probably end up at a division rival.

        I don’t see many teams biting on Yunel after this year. Poor performance, a reputation as a clubhouse menace, and now labeled as a homophobe… not going to be easy to get rid of him. I think its far more likely that we see Hech moved than Yunel. Most likely scenario is Yunel moves to second and Hech plays at short.

        Peavy is interesting, but I’d much rather give him higher AAV than hold him for 5 years. Sure he had a bounceback year in 2012, but he was absolutely terrible in 2010 and 2011. There are definitely health concerns there as well.

        I think its very likely that we see Adam Lind stick around with the Jays. It’d be great if it were in a limited role (lefty bench bat), but the fact that he can only play one position (1B) and doesn’t play it very well hinders his value. We saw what having to carry Vizquel on the bench all season did to the Jays… I see him and Edwin handling 1B/DH duties together pretty much all year.

        For whatever reason, this club believes in Adam Lind.

  10. Mark Anderson at Baseball Prospectus had great things to say today about Dawel Lugo, specifically his bat speed and has easy plus offensive projection. HIs more limited range suggests he may move to third.

  11. Stieb had the better numbers…. didn’t make it, so Morris can fuck off already. Most Wins… so what Siteb had a much higher WAR!

    • Hear! Hear! Stieb is still my favourite Jay even after these many years. And when are the Jays going to retire 37? Alvarez wearing it doesn’t bother me as much as So So Reyes sullying it with his shittastic performance.

      • I really liked Steib, but I thought he lacked the toughness that Morris had. Morris was a pitcher that you don’t see anymore…stay in the game and get a win. It didn’t hurt his arm either. You didn’t see hime crawling away after 5 complete and crossing his fingers for the bullpen to save his sorry ass.

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