Where’d his camera and green Sox hat go?

With precisely the amount of vagueness needed to make it sound as though something has perhaps dramatically changed– um… maybe?–since last we were privy to whatever the Boston media has deigned to let dribble out of their mouths in our direction regarding John Farrell, the Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo gave birth to a tweet late Wednesday evening:

Now, it seems to me that the last we’d heard was that the Sox had yet to even ask permission to have Farrell interview with the Jays, which pretty much rendered the notion of compensation moot. No permission means no need to haggle, correct? So does Cafardo’s tweet tell us that we’ve now crossed that barrier? Does it therefore suggest that Boston’s parading around of DeMarlo Hale, Brad Ausmus, Tim Wallach, and whatever other candidates they interview is just a gigantic waste of everybody’s time– or some kind of sad plan B or an attempt at gaining leverage with the Jays by appearing as though they’re not singularly focussed on Farrell?

And does the apparent crossing of the permission hurdle tell us that the Jays are actually playing ball here?

I suppose it entirely could be. But you’d sure think it might behoove Cafardo to answer some of these questions– and it’s not like would it be terribly difficult, if he actually has anything to tell us here beyond the already well-known fact that of-fucking-course the Red Sox want Farrell and are trying to find a way to pry him away from the Jays.

Instead, the statement just hangs there. Familiar, potentially significant, yet entirely without elaboration.

Yeah, it’s not exactly in the best medium for meticulous detail. And no, I’m not suggesting Cafardo is making it up or necessarily playing too fast and loose with his words here. It’s just… for those of us who’ve been following this story, the statement looks like it might be suggesting a rather interesting, new development.

So… um… is it?


Image via Twitter.

Comments (70)

  1. it mostly means that no one is paying attention to cafardo because of that pesky NL and ALCS

    red sox media is the equivalent to the tools that work on the leafs.

  2. Am I wrong to think that they should just get the best deal they can and let this happen? Am I missing something about Farrell that I should be seeing?

    • Yes.

    • what could you possibly get for him? A guy that won’t even stick on the 40 man, you aren’t going to get any value, and you would be letting a manger that knows the ins and outs of the team go to a divisional rival

  3. Someday we’ll look back on this month and laugh hysterically that so much thought was wasted debating compensation for a mediocre manager.

    • He’s mediocre why?

      • realistically, its hard to decipher what type of manager he is.

        none of his rosters have had the talent or depth required for lineup decisions and bullpen management to actually matter.

        he could be terrible, he could also be pretty good.

      • @Andrew

        I wouldn’t run Farrell out of town with pitchforks or anything… I’d be fine seeing him here another year. But I didn’t LOVE his bullpen management. And I did think the team made a lot of mental mistakes on the filed. Lawrie was kind of running wild out there. The weird Sierra glasses thing.

        No idea if Farrell is a good or mediocre manager really. But I do think it’s fair to make the judgement that he seemed to have a mediocre season. At least by the things we can tangibly see that a manager does or doesn’t do.

        • Let me repeat all the crap I read in the Sun, now. James, it sounds like you are exactly ready to run him out of town with pitchforks (they are pretty heavy, are you sure you can handle more than one).

          Once Farrell had a good bullpen, he seemed pretty fucking smart didn’t he. Maybe the issue was not the manager, but the fucking shitty bullpen we ended up with to start the season (which looked pretty ok before the season started).

          Maybe the problem with young players is that they are young and make mistakes. Or else we would see more than one Mike Trout or Bryce Harper every ten fucking years.

          Do you know that Farrell never mentioned to Sierra to take his glasses out. If you are a manager of a professional baseball team, do you really think reminding players to where their sunglasses when it is sunny is your fucking job?! I sure don’t.

          • Who precisely pissed in your Corn Flakes this morning, Tony?

          • I like it Tony

          • tony, i don’t think anyone was suggesting young guys don’t make mistakes… it is just that some of us get frustrated when the same players make the same mistakes time and time again.

            … and it isn’t just the young guys… davis tring to steal third when the team is trailing by multiple runs?… a 45 year old guy getting thrown out at 2nd to end the game? those sorts of mistakes are just stupid baseball no matter how you look at it. at some point the manager has to give the red light if his guys show that they aren’t caplable of making smart situational decisions.

            stoeten likes to point to the aggregate baserunning stats… but to me those are kinda pointless because it is not as if everyone starts with the same talent on the basepaths.

          • I don’t think anyone is really qualified to start shitting on Farrell because of mistakes that should not be the purview of the manager. He sets the line-up, he guides the coaching strategies. He ahs the overarching vision of how this team is supposed to run. And then, yeah, he makes some in-game decisions. But these are professional players and if they make mistakes, I think it is on them, not the manager.

            The overarching vision for this team certainly at the start of the season was they were aggressive on the basepaths. And sometimes they were great at it, and other times they looked bad. Over time, those young players will make adjustments and within the same strategy, they will excel. There will always be some mistakes when an aggressive strategy is followed.

            I say let your speedy players use their speed. It’s why you have them. Let your young players make their own mistakes.

            It is not Farrell’s fault if the fanbase got all hopped up on a great Spring and expected anything more than a development year for these kids. I think he managed this team better than most would, and that is why the Boston fucking Red Sox want him so badly. Other than Valentine and maybe the Crawford signing, they have been a pretty sharp organization for the past decade.

      • Perhaps more to the point, why is he anything but mediocre? I think he’s done a fairly adequate job, but I’ve been left shaking my head a lot w/ his decisions, both from a bullpen perspective and certainly from a baserunning perspective. It seems strange that you’re so pro-Farrell. I don’t know that he’s done anything specific to win anyone’s affections, other than the fact that he interviews fairly well.

        Maybe a trade would include him and a player for something decent. Everything I’ve seen has him going one-for-one, but that’s not necessarily what’s being discussed … if anything’s actually being discussed, that is.

        • @ TonyRage: I think you underestimate how many of those ‘mistakes’ are actually plays called by the coaches, from the dugout rather than things the players chose to do themselves. It’s entirely possible that many of those bad steals a player attempted the player didn’t even want to do but was forced to.

          • Not based on everything I have read all season Mark. The objection most people have is to Farrell giving the “green light” to players like Lawrie.

          • tony… it isn’t the green light… it is the green light when the situation dictates that it is idiotic to run.

            those situational mistakes you will tolerate once… but once the player show he is incapable of making the right decision it is on the manager for not giving him the red light.

            listen, i like aggressive baseball… i really do. it is just that there are certain situations where it is inexcusable to allow your players to make outs on the basepaths.

          • Ryan, I think you have red light and green light mixed up. FTW.

          • Or not. I can’t follow your argument and don’t feel like trying.

            Red light, green light. Who fucking cares. I don’t even care if we got thrown out 100 times on the basepaths. We lost this season due to crappy starting pitching due to injury and inconsistent hitting. That shit is on the players.

          • Not worth it, guys. Tony has dug in, he’s hopeless for today.

    • Calling Farrell mediocre is being kind.

  4. After Kobbler got that scoop on Lind I think we can’t underestimate what is leaking from the other teams’ front offices.

  5. I think he’s most decidedly mediocre He’s shown an inability to manage the running game and to manage a bullpen. Those are basically the only things we can somewhat evaluate a manager by. Perhaps he’s gaming the system and future analysis will reveal some genius but by all accounts it seems he makes predictable decisions predictably peppered by some awful ones (made because – oldschool).

    If someone can give me a few examples of him thinking outside the box I’m willing to listen, but I can think of none. The defensive alignment worked very well this year but we all know he had nothing to do with that other than go along with it. If you’re not thinking outside the box and you’re losing runs on the basepaths and you’re sacrificing at conspicuous moments and you don’t understand lefty/right splits can you be anything above mediocre?

  6. I don’t hate the guy, but c’mon, he hasn’t earned being defended.

  7. It’s gotten to the point where Farrell is pissing me off. His language about it is so ridiculously calculated to stop just short of saying that he’ll be back. It’s always “look .. I am an employee under contract with the Blue Jays’.

    All he has to say is ‘No. I’m not going to the Red Sox’ or ‘I’ve spoken with Alex and I’ll be back in 2013.’ He keeps that little bit of ambiguity in there every time. Makes me think he probably does want out.

    I guess he could be keeping his answers close to his vest for leverage for an extension… but if that was all this was, you think he’d put his foot down at some point, now that the rumors have hit a fever pitch.

  8. I think Farrellball has been pretty even with most of the players. Most respect him but we have Vizquel, Frasor an Lind on one side. I’m going to go with Bautista and say things are okay enough. Lind and Frasor could have been Cito mutineers too for all we know so fuck them. One will be gone and the other two should have been released earlier so again fuck those guys.

    • yeah, negative comments from arguably the 3 worst “veterans” on the team who no one would be sad to see given the boot doesn’t exactly count as credible crticism….

  9. Farrell has been a little disappointing as Manager, I don’t hate the guy but maybe it’s time for a change? We won’t get a whole lot for him, so I think we get what we can and move on…. My question is who takes over in Toronto? I’d hate the off season to get lost looking for a new Manager. We need grass to play on, players to play and lastly a Manager to play for…

  10. “Does it therefore suggest that Boston’s parading around of DeMarlo Hale, Brad Ausmus, Tim Wallach, and whatever other candidates they interview is just a gigantic waste of everybody’s time– or some kind of sad plan B or an attempt at gaining leverage with the Jays by appearing as though they’re not singularly focussed on Farrell?”

    Even if they were trading for Farrell, wouldn’t they have to interview a minority for the position, anyway (Hale)? Is that a thing in the MLB?

  11. As far as I know it is…

  12. “……he is open-minded, he just gets a little stubborn, especially with the base stealing stuff.”
    Thats a KLaw quote from the 11 Oct post.
    With the base stealing stuff, is it possible Farrell is some kind of genius working on a master plan? Could it be that he has an ultimate goal of winning the WS through base stealing and the rest of us lesser intellects just dont get it?

  13. I think I’m to the point where I am sick of discussing how I am sick of discussing this nonsense.

  14. I’ve seen Stoeten and a number of posters on this board say that we’re giving the manager to much credit/making him take too much blame for wins and losses. That it’s on the field with the players that determine whether a team wins or loses. I’ve also seen Stoeten defend Farrell as he does above when someone questions his value to the club.

    At this point I don’t give a damn except I’d like it settled that he stays or goes. But you guys can’t have it both ways. If a manager does contribute to the win total, then it doesn’t look like Farrell is much of an asset even given the multiple injuries this season. Last season, ok it was his rookie year but still, he didn’t seem to be learning too fast on the job especially around the bullpen. If the manager doesn’t make a huge difference then why are we even hesitating to support sending him on down the line for decent compensation on the field.

    • Stoeten and a number of the posters are wrong.I’ll make it short.
      If a manager had no effect on the game then it implies that there is no strategy to be applied.No decisions that would affect the outcome,thus the manager has zero influence and the players would also perform the same in identical situations.
      Does anybody really agree, that the manager doesn’t matter?If so, I’m watching the game differently than you.

      • RADAR. You are right fella.
        To say the manager has no impact on the results is insane.

      • Once again you mis-represent people, Radar. I have never heard Stoeten or anyone here argue that the manager has no effect on the game. More that, the manager has less of an effect on the results than the roster. In essence, the counter argument would be that one at bat, one signal or one pitching change drastically can change the outcome of a game, like the first 100 pitches and 25 at bats didn’t mean anything. And that is just not true. We just over emphasize those at bats and pitching changes because they occur later in the game when it is the team’s last chance to come from behind or secure the win.

        • Perhaps you’re reading comprehension needs some work.
          Read the first line of Isabella’s comment. Seems I’m not the only one.
          I’m not misrepresenting people, common among sabermetricians is the thought that a manager’s decisions have little positive effect and can only provide a negative result.
          And your argument that one pitching change can’t affect the outcome of the game?Sorry I disagree.
          You’ve stated” I have never heard Stoeten or anyone here argue that the manager has no effect on the game.”
          I’m shocked, really.

          • I ignore pretty much anything Isabella writes.

            My argument is “none” versus “less than”.

  15. Make it stop!!! MAAAAKE IIIIIT STOPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. Yep, I think a lot of us have just about had enough of this shit. If it doesn’t end soon it’ll become the Darvish Distraction for this off-season. And by end soon I mean either trade the bugger or give him an extension. Because if AA doesn’t give him an extension we’ll be hearing about that the entire off-season.

    Also, if Farrell remains and has one year left with no contract, and if I were the agent for a free agent this winter, that might be something to give me pause. Along with all the other pause-factors that hang around the Jays like that they are perennial losers, they play in a foreign country etc etc etc

    • No! Your logic makes absolutely no sense. AA is not responsible for this mess, and shouldn’t feel pressured into making a decision because of it. He should be doing exactly what I suspect he is doing – listening to Boston, demanding the moon, and waiting to consider extending Farrell until he either trades him to Boston (highly unlikely I suspect) or Boston signs a manager.

      Even then, if AA doesn’t feel the need to extend Farrell right away, then don’t. Detroit’s manager (Leyland) went through this season with only 1 year left, and it didn’t seem to “undermine” his authority in the clubhouse. All Toronto fans need to chill the fuck out on this Farrell nonsense and let it play out – the best (and most likely) course for AA is to do nothing, so don’t get up in arms when he does exactly that.

  17. Please be true. I’d love to get compensation for any manager.

  18. Apparently John Fucking Henry himself reached out to the Beest about this Farrell stuff:


  19. Which is the real coach/manager?

    The one who was in Boston when the team was pretty stacked and they had solid veteran and young pitching?

    Or the one in Toronto with a less than stacked team and questionable pitching?

  20. Farrell isn’t as infuriating as Cito – but I mean c’mon… we can’t have already forgotten about the day to day in-game decisions that over the course of a season painted a picture of a guy who doesn’t really excel at putting the best person in the best situation to win. Its no one thing that Farrell did that makes him a mediocre manager – certainly not the things that came out in the media.

    But most of us watched this team for the majority of 162 games this year and 162 games last year – and the body of work suggests that he is WAY too concerned with symmetrical lineup (R,L,R,L), that he has no idea when it is appropriate to bunt (for the record – fuck bunting), that he thinks the term small-ball means try to steal every time you can, that he has a spotty record in the selection of pinch hitters etc.

    Furthermore, one of the real strengths of this team in terms of management was defensive positioning which had to have saved the Jays a buttload of runs this season, which by all accounts is directly attributable to Brian Butterfield.

    Of course a better lineup would have hid some of the mistakes but I still remember the great many times over the course of the year where I was left scratching my head. If a deal for something real cannot be struck with Boston, I have no real issue with Farrell coming back – he’s not a BAD manager, but if we can get actual value for a guy who could probably be replaced with any number of likeable, mediocre managers then I say do it now.

    Plus – if Sal Fasano still has that mustache – it would be nice to have around the clubhouse to keep the rookies in line.

    • You articulated it much better than I could Ernie.
      Well thought and well said.

    • ErnieWhitt is spot on. Best comment on the subject I’ve seen so far. If the Jays can get anyone decent, trade him and don’t look back. If the Sox offer nothing but garbage–someone who wouldn’t even stick on the 40 as an earlier commenter said–tell them to shove it. I wouldn’t offer an extension though, let him be a lame duck. The only team that wants him is Boston and they won’t hire someone on a filler one-year contract. Unless he really turns it around next year, cut him loose at the end of his contract and find someone else.

  21. Can we just stop the fucking non-sense that this situation has become? FUCK ME!!!!

  22. I agree. I’m tired of this fucking soap opera. I’d be happy with KFC and beer at this point. Wasn’t there a player who was traded for equipment like bats or something? Maybe we can get some good used stuff from the Dead Sox…

  23. Was talking to a friend who works in the airline industry and Sandy Alomar Jr. was in town last week.

  24. What some are missing here in the compensation equation is that the jays will be trading to a division rival and competitor for a playoff spot the one guy who knows the jays lineup in and out ! That is a massive advantage to the red cox everytime we play them. So they are not only getting their beloved Farrell they are gaining strategic insider information on all of our players! That has to drive the price way past a couple minor league pitchers into the MLB talent levels. I would set the price at a SP and if they don’t pay then fuck’em ! Choke again next year with some other bum manager.

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