Crank up the ol’ intrigue machine, because Alex Anthopoulos had been scheduled to appear on the Fan 590‘s Jeff Blair Show tomorrow morning at 9 AM, to address– presumably among other things– the nauseatingly rampant innuendo about Boston’s coveting of Jays manager John Farrell. And now that appearance has apparently been cancelled.

Obviously there could be many reasons for Anthopoulos to back out: it could be personal, it could be a scheduling conflict, or some piece of crucial business (unrelated to you know what) may have come up. But… um… one guess as to how many people are going to be speculating any of that.

Is the Farrell situation finally about to be resolved? Have the Jays and Red Sox made headway on compensation and does Anthopoulos, with the expectation of more scrutiny from the Boston media, see tomorrow morning as a bad time to put himself in the spotlight? Shit, going the other way, are the Jays and Farrell maybe hammering out the details of a contract extension that they won’t be able to make public until later in the day?

We have no earthly idea at this point– though I’m sure half of fucking New England is in the process of calling around to find out– but it sure has been making a hefty portion of Twitter lose its shit. And that’s kind of the ultimate frustration in this, because we’re finding all kinds of things to argue about here– does this mean it’s really happening? what’s the compensation? how good a manager is Farrell? are the Red Sox total dicks or fucking twats?– when the whole damn story always comes back to the same essentially null equation we saw from the start.

If Farrell goes, either the Jays get a nice piece of compensation in return, or they don’t, and it means that they’d essentially soured on him anyway. If he stays, he stays.

Though there has not been a lot to like about the way he’s run the ballclub, tactically, I think there are some measure of extenuating circumstances for that, and I tend to trust Keith Law’s reading of the industry view of him, which I quoted from a Baseball Today podcast about a week ago, that he’s bright enough to eventually get beyond the many shortcomings that have been on display in his two seasons on the bench.

Yet, if he goes, it’s not like there aren’t plenty of options. The reported runners-up from the search two years ago– DeMarlo Hale and Sandy Alomar– are still available; several excellent and available candidates just interviewed with the Sox; there’s the just-fired Manny Acta, who Anthopoulos may have some connection with from his days in Montreal; and there are a  healthy number of internal options, as well– Don Wakamatsu, Luis Rivera, Torey Lovullo, Brian Butterfield (though word is he’s been indicating he’s no longer really interested) or Sal Fasano.

I can’t imagine a new search taking as long as last time, or being as intrusive on whatever else Alex Anthopoulos wants to do– if we even really want to believe that his statements to that effect weren’t just convenient cover for a lack of deeper improvement that winter.

So… whatever.

And maybe this– again– is being entirely fucking overblown. Here’s the sports anchor from Boston’s WBZ-TV:

Or– fuck– maybe it’s not. From a piece earlier Thursday evening by Jon Heyman at CBS Sports:

Three people with ties to the Blue Jays say they remain surprised the team has publicly suggested it won’t let manager John Farrell go to Boston. Those people still believe there’s a chance Toronto will change its mind, and allow Farrell to go to the Red Sox, provided the compensation suits them.

One person, who claims the Blue Jays front office and Farrell butted heads this year, went so far as to say, “The people there would charter a jet to get him out.”

Again, though… whatever.

Comments (101)

  1. fucking twats

  2. The timing of AA cancelling the interview with Blair is weird.

    If the compensation for Farrell is a starting pitcher, then that’s OK.

    If the compensation is the 25th man on the red sox roster, then that’s not OK.

    The Jays will look like pushovers for letting a decent manager with “upside” go to a division rival.

    I think managers can cost the team games & I dont want to to see walkmatsu as manager.

    The interview that Brunt gave to Mccowan 2 days ago about Beeston butting heads with Rogers was shocking.

    It seems that Beeston didn’t like having to go to Rogers to get approval to make financial moves.

    Apparently, Gillick & Beeston had much more control over the club when Labatt owned the team.

    According to Brunt, Rogers did not want to deal with the PR disaster of having Beeston quit the Jays on bad terms.

    Could it be that Rogers is reluctant to finance the team properly after the Riccardi fiasco, so Beeston is upset that he can’t let AA bid on players.??

    Did anyone find it strange when Farrell said he needed starting pitching the same as last year?

    I took it that Farrell thought AA would get him qualified starting pitching & AA was only able to afford Santos & Laffey.

    Perhaps Farrell sees Boston as more willing to rebuild quickly rather than the Jays??

    I saw somewhere on twitter that Sandy Alomar Jr was seen at Pearson airport last week.

    Is a replacement for farrell??

    • Let’s just all agree right now to not get into the “I saw a rumour on twitter…” stuff this winter, mmkay?

    • Was going to get into that stuff tomorrow, most likely, actually. Not sure about all the theories here, but I don’t think it’s strange Farrell wanted starting pitching, though– um… shouldn’t he have?

      And I don’t think it looks bad letting Boston take him at all, if the Jays aren’t interested. It really doesn’t matter.

      Realistically, you’re way off on expectations when it comes to compensation. They’d be lucky to get a legit MLB 25th man, I’m pretty sure. Look at the precedents.

      • Ummm yeah it looks bad. Look, you may not think that the manager does not have much of an impact on the team and you may very well be right but I do not want to see the Jays do the Red Sox any favours. Why should we just hand over someone they apparently desperately want without extracting something very tangible in return? The Jays look like a feeder organization if they do that. It sounds like you have preemptively talked yourself out of disappointment because I guarantee you the vast majority of jays fans will not be happy if they get clay mortensen in return.

        • It’s not that I’ve talked myself out of disappointment, it’s that reality suggests something that’s far different than the expectations of a lot of Jays fans. Again, there are precedents here. There was compensation for Theo last year. For Guillen. We see what it usually takes– in situations little different than this– and I can tell you that pretty much no matter what, Jays fans are going to be disappointed, because far too many people have indulged their fantasies about Pedroia or Buchholz or Bard, rather than explaining it as I have been.

          The feeder organization stuff is bunk. Sure, that’s what people will probably say, but it’s stupid, and we have the ability to explain why rather easily, so what’s the worry? Yes, there are PR aspects to every decision a franchise makes, but there will be just as many people thrilled to see Farrell gone as would be upset over the fact that they didn’t get enough.

          And how, exactly, is it doing Boston a favour for the Jays to hold onto a guy they don’t really want, in order to keep him out of their hands?

          I understand the impulse to not want to ever send anything their way, but it just seriously doesn’t matter.

          • This is what davidi said: “To accept anything less than a significant player who can help on the field immediately, or a desirable prospect that can be peddled elsewhere to get some immediate reinforcements, would be an embarrassment for the Blue Jays, who have done little to shut down a steady campaign by a divisional rival aimed at poaching a key staff member. ” Pretty bang on. It does matter what they get in return for farrell.

            http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/10/18/blue_jays_must_end_farrell_speculation/

          • @Stoeten

            I don’t think Theo and Ozzie are completely fair comparables.

            Boston and Chicago pretty much wanted to move on from those two it seems.

            Whereas I don’t really think AA wants to move on from Farrell.

            And it’s a division rival.

            AA should treat this like he treats signing a free agent. Place a value on Farrell. If the Red Sox meet or exceed it, trade him. If not, don’t bother.

        • I’d take a bag of balls for Farrell if that’s all they could get for him. Wouldn’t make a bit of difference to me.

          If he doesn’t want to be here and the Jays don’t think he’s a long-term solution, then there’s really no point in him staying on for another season.

          • What if the Jays DO want Farrell? Why is the immediate assumption that if they part with him, they didn’t want him? What if they just fucked up by allowing the media to turn it into an untenable situation?

          • these rumours are persisting. i doubt very much that it’s aa or the front office in toronto stoking the flames. farrell probably wants out – and that’s probably why we keep hearing this stuff. obviously boston has interest.

            if that’s the case, it’s reasonable to assume he won’t resign and this will be a wasted year with him at the helm. might be worth taking ‘inmates running the asylum’ comments seriously in this regard.

            but mostly i’m just sick of hearing about this non-story one way or another. wilner is suggesting bard could be headed this way…highly improbable based on past precedents…but sure…do it.

            maybe farrell is an awesome manager. interesting that not a lot of players are coming out to say anything about how they need to keep him on twitter. maybe they care about as much as we do.

      • @Stoeten.

        Didn’t the Marlins give up quality prospects for Ozzie Guillen?

        I don’t like the optics of dumping Farrell to the Red Sox for the 25th man on a red sox roster.

        If the Jays are willing to let Farrel go for very low compensation, is it because they don’t like how Farrell managed the young players, , baserunning & bullpen issues or is it that Farrell told them he doesn’t like the way the Jays operated.

        The tone Farrell used to describe the request for more starting pitching seemed to be of exasperation. It’s like he could not believe that he had no real MLB pitching help since April 1, … There was no serious upgrades in July, although JA HApp is a Plus IMHO.

        FWIW, I renewed my ticket package for 2013 & the Jays rep said that the jays do plan to add significantly to payroll. Could be BS, but whatever.

        Excellent post on the trade scenarios Stoeten.

        • The Marlins traded their #4 and #5 prospects to the White Sox for Ozzie Guillen. They may have been top five prospects in Miami’s system, but neither cracked the top ten in Chicago’s farm system. One of them was traded for cash considerations to the Dodgers in July, if that’s any indication of his value.

          • Of course, that was a situation where Chicago was already firing Ozzie. The leverage here is VERY different.

        • If they dump JF on the Redsox, it doesn’t really mean they have soured on him. It would simply be foolish to not move your manager in favor of of a mid rotation starter or a back end bullpen arm with controllable years.

          If they have in fact soured on him, they could simply deny Boston a chance to interview him, wait until Boston signs a new manager, then fire Ferrell. Burn.

          • This scenario would please me greatly. Let the Sux fill their managers position and then send the Crimson Chin packing.

        • If they did want Farrell, they would offer him a contract extension and not worry about the media. But I don’t think they do and I don’t think Farrell wants to be here either as long as the Boston job is open.

      • It wouldn’t be that he said he wants pitching. It would be the “same as last year” part.

  3. Or maybe AA’s just got a gnarly cold and wants to sleep in tomorrow?

  4. Let me know when Mr. Unnamed Sources is scheduled to do an interview on the radio. That guy knows everything.

  5. “Are the red sox total dicks or total twats”

    That’s what this comes down to.

    I’m going with twats.

  6. Maybe he’sgot the shits.

  7. More than likely AA’s cancellation has nothing to do with Farrell, but rather a blockbuster trade he will announce tomorrow at 1 PM. Something to take the shine off the playoffs. Oh yes with the Snake from Arizona, yeah thats it….Upton!

    • LOL!.

      No I do think it’s either a contract extension with Farrell or a trade of Farrell to Boston.

      I do remember that one of Farrell’s kids was sick last year, so maybe he wants to go back to the USA .

  8. Davidi reports that there’s “hints” that Butterfield, Rivera and Lovullo would follow Farrell out of town if he were to leave: http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/10/18/blue_jays_must_end_farrell_speculation

    • Well isn’t that another kick in the nuts to add to the saga.

      Thanks for the link Bret.

    • Can they take Dwayne Murphy with them?

      • Well, Murph is a Cito guy so he wouldn’t leave. Riveraand Lovullo are Farrellballs but Butter would be the real loss.

    • Can’t say I disagree with anything in that article.

      I do agree that if they were to trade Farrell for a pittance to a division rival, it would be an embarrassment for the franchise.

    • Fuck that!

      I want Lovullo to be the next manager, and I love Butter!

    • Isn’t Jays policy that they only let employees under contract leave for promotions? None of those guys would be getting promoted, except maybe Rivera.

    • As long as he takes Murphy and Wakamatsu with him as well then its all good.

    • It’s not that they would follow Farrell. Any new manager is going to want to choose his staff. Several coaches would probably go. As for Butter, if he doesn’t get the chance to be manager this time, I would expect him to want to move on.

    • “Further, there is an important strategic value to all the proprietary information Farrell would take back with him to Boston, providing the Red Sox a valuable window into how the Blue Jays operate.”

      Whooops he just lost all credibility.

    • Butter would surprise me because he was here long before Farrell. but he is from that area and a huge Pats fans so maybe not….

  9. Wether the jays have soured on Farrell or not and even if for the sake of argument you think he can be replaced by any other dill hole with a beer gut! If the Red Sox are going to come begging again for their beloved pitching coach then they should pays nod pay dearly. There is no precedent here to be drawn between Theo Epstein and John Farrell compensation because the Red Sox didn’t want theo and everyone knew it ! Plus he is a gm or president or what have you not the guy calling every play in a game. If the sox want Farrell grind them for a high high price ! With that gong show of a organization you never know what will happen

  10. I think that if the Jays organization has decided that Farrell isn’t the guy then we get the max that Boston is willing to pay for the negotiating rights. As long as it’s better than Tyson Brummett, Cory Wade or Scott Cousins the 40 man is improved. If the org hasn’t soured on Farrell we tell the fucking twats in beantown to fuck off and that’s that.

  11. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Jays have a manager picked and ready if this goes down.

  12. Saying that farrell is bright enough to figure it out after 2 years is laughable. If he was bright enough then it wouldn’t have taken him 2 years would it? And he showed no evidence that he was figuring it out. In fact it was getting worse.

    What exactly was alex doing on an interview anyways since nothing is going on? What was he going to say? Has boston asked you about farrell? He can’t say yes. He can’t say no then he’s lying. If he says no comment then that’s a yes.

    my bet is the jays get that ciraco kid. He cost boston nothing.

  13. fuck farrell. let him go compose oral essays 5 nights a week as to why his team of shitheads didn’t swing a fucking bat or throw a fucking ball worth a dime, despite being paid primo-bux. aa should give him a coke and a smile and send him on his way.

    also: why do people think buchholz is so great? i don’t get it. this team already has a bunch of high-upside guys that can’t seem to play up to (what we’re told) is their talent level. not that getting him for farrell wouldn’t be a coup, just i don’t get how his name gets thrown around in the same sentence as pedroia.

  14. “here are a healthy number of internal options, as well– Don Wakamatsu, Luis Rivera, Torey Lovullo, Brian Butterfield (though word is he’s been indicating he’s no longer really interested) or Sal Fasano.”

    - davidi suggests if farrell goes, Butters, Lovullo and Rivera are going with him.

    • I’m sure Lovullo, Butterfield and Rivera would turn down an MLB managerial position if it was offered to any of them… ;)

      • i heard butter doesn’t want to manage. he likes his job as it is. i bet there are lots of people that like being with the guys but don’t want the pressure and media stuff to handle daily….paychecque or not.

  15. AA’s approaching this all wrong. He’s letting the Boston media control the whole story. Time to fight back.

    As a prophetic commenter suggested in the other thread, the Blue Jays should tell Boston only way they can have Farrell is if they take back Adam Lind.

    Assuming that Boston balks at this, just spread some leaks about the offer that insinuates John Henry and Co are a bunch of cheap fucks who won’t reinvest their summer savings by taking on Lind to get their saviour Mr Farrell.

    I mean, it fits perfectly with the narrative, doesn’t it? Toronto is the farm system for the big, bad boys from Boston where taking on $8 million for Lind is worth it to get the next hall of fame manager.

    The casual Boston fan will consider it a victory for Red Sox Nation. The DJF community will consider it a shrewd piece of asset management and opportunity cost.

    I’m okay with all of the above.

    • yea. the jays have no use for a left-handed power hitter who hit .300 after being coming back up from aaa.
      i hate lind as much as the next guy, but this is the stupidest fucking thing i’ve heard from toronto or boston…and that’s saying a lot.

    • adam lind is a good hitter if used properly. bat him down in the lineup with low pressure and only vs righties and he’s fine. it’s that simple except for this idiot manager who continues to bat him cleanup.

    • Lind leaves and pulls an Aaron Hill for the Bosox. No thanks. I’d rather have him coming off the bench until the team options kick in.

      • I can’t believe 3 people are actually worried about Adam Lind pulling an Aaron Hill in Boston.

        Obviously it could happen…but the probability is extremely low.

        And, you know, the Red Sox could have picked him up on waivers if they wanted him so badly. A few weeks of good hitting shouldn’t supercede the previous 2.5 years.

      • I dont mind Aaron Hill doing so well in AZ. In fact I really liked him when he was here and I wish him all the success in the world.. Moreover I dont think his problems here were entirely his fault. I DO absolutely fucking HATE the fact that his success was inversely proportinal to KJ’s sucking. ( ie, the more Hill did well, the more KJ sucked.)
        Lind on the other hand is a huge fucking tease and those people who think just because he’s done a little better since he’s been back from AAA are deluded. He’s pulled this trick before and as soon as MLB pitchers figure out what his new weakness is, he’ll be gonzo, and hopefully this time forever.

  16. Jays2010, that is an interesting take.

    It doesn’t require Boston to be separated from any talent, which makes it more palatable to the GM. However, you just know Lind is going to bust out and destroy the Jays for a couple years because he got some motivation.

    • rumour has it that john henry is looking to sell the team. i doubt the red sox are going to go on a spending bonanza until a deal happens (if at all). they’ve won 2 championships in the last decade, and iirc, they finally broke their sold-out streak this year. if i were looking to buy the team, i wouldn’t want them to go repeat the same decisions that led to the firesale in july/august (ie. huge FA contracts). and if i’m a FA, i see a team headed in the wrong direction and a clubhouse of malcontents. fuck boston. and fuck self-hating jays fans who seem to believe that their shit doesn’t stink, and they’re always going to spend their nards off. fuck john henry. he didn’t get rich by throwing money away and it looks like he’s sick of his playtoy. so fuck the redsox. they damn well better be sending something useful to the jays if they want farrell, because this is a team headed up UP UP!

  17. I was thinking how are the jays going to sell tickets this offseason given the disaster that occurred, then combine that with farrell being the face of the franchise. I think it would be much more saleable if there was a new manager, a fresh start. Farrell always has this dumb look on his face, like he has no clue what just happened.

  18. Either way this turns out, the Jays are getting a shit ton of press in the playoffs…is this a result of the NHL lockout or no?

  19. Wilner blogged last night that he feels it’s increasingly likely Farrell winds up a Red Sox, and that he thinks Sandy Alomar Jr. would be the replacement. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/10/19/wilner_toronto_blue_jays_john_farrell_boston_red_sox/

    Bob Elliott also writes that he hears the Jays/Red Sox have been talking compensation for Farrell for a week, and that the Indians would let Sandy Alomar leave to manage the Jays: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/10/18/the-farrell-to-boston-saga-continues

  20. Blair on with Shi Davidi right now. Davidi thinks whatever the outcome this has made the Jays look bad because the Farrell-to-Sox issue has gone on too long no matter what. He also says the Jays never shut the door definitively on this and it’s gone on for over a year. He’s not sure which way it will go. Blair seems to think that it’s likely Farrell is gone.

    Again, I don’t care. I just want it over and I know I’m not the only one on this board. Enough already.

    • I agree with Davidi. Regardless of how this gurns out, this has been another PR blunder by the AA regime. If Farell goes to Boston the Jays look like pussies, giving in to their division rival. If Farrell stays with the Jays there will be a lingering cloud hanging over the organization – did Farrell really want to stay? How badly did the Jays want to keep him?

      I disagree with Stoeten on many points and find that Davidi made a lot of good points in his column. Managers aren’t irrelevent just because it’s difficult/impossible to measure their impact.

      Regarding the impact on FAs, I don’t think it should be discounted. The manager situation is something free agents are going to consider. Money will come first, but if the Jays have a new manager it makes the organization look like they are just spinning their wheels.

      If you are a guy looking to sign with a team that has a shot to make the playoffs, you might consider the Jays to have just had a bump in the road this season. But without continuity in the manager position maybe you think there are deeper issues and 2012 wasn’t just a setback due to injury problems.

      I’d prefer Farrell to stay unless there is significant compensation. Despite his tactical shortcomings (and his obsession with alternating R/L in the order) I think Farrell is a smart guy, who’s good at dealing with people – both players & media. I’d rather not see the Jays bring in another rookie manager and have to go through the same growing pains.

  21. I just want all this bullshit to end. Please. Dr. Kevorkian, put me out of my misery.

  22. Blair brings up a good point about who they get next. If Farrell is gone. The short list last time was Farrell, Sandy Alomar Jr and DeMarlo Hale I think, none of them had managed before. Do the Jays go down that route again? If so I hope it’s Sandy Alomar.

    Or, maybe, we identify a current manager we want, and flip Rubby de la Rosa or whoever we get over to that club for him. No one seems to have thought about that. But if the Sux can do it, so can we. There may be a decent manager out there who would be a good fit for us and perhaps we should explore that possibility. Of course at this stage of the game it might be too late. But it’s an entertaining thought!

  23. hale has pretty extensive experience managing in the minor leagues…

  24. Fuck you guys are great at what you do

  25. Does anyone know much about Sandy Alomar Jr? It kind of sounds today like he’ll be the Jays next manager. He seems to be held in high regard, but I really know nothing about his personality/tactics/knowledge/etc.

    • All I know is that he is always in the mix. Like the Jays and free agent signings last year.

    • I don’t understand the love for Sandy. The Jays tried a rookie manager in Farrell and the results and been mixed at best. Why “trade” one rookie manager to hire another? Makes no sense, man!

      • Because that rookie manager on the Cardinals is having no success?

      • Because if they are “the same” thing but you get a top prospect for making the switch…. then why not?

        • @sons: But you’re not getting a top prospect, and we both know that.

          @Bret: I think that’s more proof that the team is pretty good and not the manager, though I suppose I could be wrong on that basis.

          • @Indestructible – no doubt it’s proof of a great team. I was just pointing out that having a really good team matters way more than the experience of your manager.

          • Ahh now I see what you did there. I’d be all for it if the Jays could steal a solid prospect such as Rosa, but if that were possible, it probably would have happened already.

            Given the options, I’m believing the Jays will stick with Farrell for the 2013 season, perhaps beyond.

  26. No more rookie fucking managers. Let’s get a real mgr.

  27. If this Farrell trade is going to happen, I would have loved it if the Jays could have gotten Francona.

    Half because he’s an established manager and half because it would be kind of a quid pro quo fuck you to Boston.

  28. Definitely in the camp that believes this is just another PR black eye for the Jays if they don’t get anything substantial from the Sox in return especially after all the public denials AA made and the rule they put in place regarding lateral moves last winter.

    I also believe the Sox would be stupid to trade anyone like Bucholz for any manager especially considering what they went through this year.

    So having said that, I think the Jays would look very badly if they let Farrell go. I’m not saying the actual result of him leaving would be all that bad, not great, but the optics of it don’t look good at all. It makes the organization look Mickey Mouse to me.

    As I tweeted last night the Jays should tell Boston to go fuck themselves outright then wait for Boston to to hire a manager. Once that’s done you can tell Farrell, if you want to be here say so, if not, we’ll release you from your contract and move on from there. That way you’re not helping Boston at all and you can get rid of a manager that doesn’t want to be here if that’s the case.

    This aiding the enemy for meaningless players is just stupid. AA’s refusal to nip all this in the bud is just like the Darvish situation again. Sure it could be much ado about nothing in the end but it’s not good PR for the club or it’s fans imo. This team needs all the help it can get in signing big name free agents. All the little messes with the pitching injuries, Escobar, Vizquel’s selfish comments and now this, don’t do a lot to inspire a player or their families when it comes to making a decision on where they want to spend the next few years of their careers. The Jays back in the late 80′s and 90′s were noted as being a model franchise, and yes winning had a lot to do with that, but a lot of it was how things were run. I was very happy when Beeston came back hoping he’d restore the franchise to the same state. I certainly don’t see that right now.

    • +1

      Davidi used the f word on Blair’s show. He’s pretty upset about the pr disaster should Farrell leave for no meaningful compensation.

      How much could the jays get for AA?

      Could they get a number 3 starter for AA ??

      It would be fun to see AA trade himself to another team.

  29. @night_maninal
    +10.
    This should never have been allowed to go on this long. It’s taking up way too much oxygen.

  30. I’m starting to wonder if AA and Beeston are having communication issues. This team could really do without this BS right now.

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