When they’re discussing stats, or strategy, or closers, or pitcher wins, or clubhouse issues, or indulging Zaun Cherry, the baseball talk on Prime Time Sports tends to get a little bit unbelievably insufferable. But there are certain areas that are right in their fucking wheelhouse over there, and Bob McCown and Stephen Brunt hit on one during the 4 PM hour of Wednesday’s show this week (audio here), discussing strife between Paul Beeston and the ownership group at Rogers, and the incredibly tricky position the club finds itself in heading into the winter.

It’s a scene, man.

“For some weeks now, people have been whispering to me that Beeston is going to be done with the Blue Jays, suggesting somehow that Rogers may not be happy with him– that Beeston may not be a good fit with this ownership,” begins Bob McCown. “And I have steadfastly resisted that notion and argued that I have not seen anything that suggests that. Now, I’m not in meetings between Pelley and Beeston– I don’t know exactly how they get along. But I’ve never seen anything that’s suggested to me that Beeston wouldn’t continue, unless he’d decided he’d had enough.”

“Now the story is,” he goes on, “that they may be on the verge of new contract.”

“Yeah, a short-ish contract, but a contract,” replies Brunt. “And I think that what’s going to happen, is that he will be renewed. I’m not sure if they’ll talk about the terms– that isn’t there policy, generally, to talk about the terms, so I suspect they won’t. But I think it’s a relatively short-term contract.”

In fact, according to Bob Elliott’s piece this morning from the Toronto Sun, Beeston’s saying that a deal isn’t only already in place, “it happened two months ago”– a fact that potentially changes our view of what Brunt says next.

“I think it has been a challenging relationship for both sides,” Brunt explained, “because Paul, during his salad days running the Blue Jays way back when, worked for an owner that was simply happy to count success upon success, and make money and open a new stadium and make even more money, and watch the equity in the franchise go through the roof, and basically left he and Pat Gillick alone to do whatever they wanted. He’d admit it. It was as though they were owners, and they occasionally would have to go to somebody like Peter Hardy and say, ‘can we do this?’ But they pretty much had carte blanche, and it paid off.

“That’s not the environment anymore– for a whole bunch of reasons– and it’s a different culture with Rogers. And I think there probably has been a bit of chafing on both sides trying to make this work. But the other side of this is, Bob, Paul Beeston is a very popular guy in Toronto still– he’s very, very popular with the media. A lot of guys have long-standing relationships with him, including you and me, and if Paul Beeston left uncomfortably from this job, not on his terms, it would be a very tough thing for the Blue Jays and for Rogers to manage, I think. So I don’t know that they want to get into that. They’ve got all kinds of other things they’ve got to deal with right now, and I think that dealing with the kind of PR fallout from that kind of situation is not something that they want to do at this stage in history. So, I think they’re going to go forward together, and I think they’ve got some challenges this winter– it’s going to be interesting to see how they face them, in terms of expectations and credibility and getting results.”

Very interesting. Though… it sure looks good on Beeston to project an image of chafing at cheapskate ownership, if you get what I’m saying.

“The $120-million question is,” McCown continued, “has Beeston asked for money and been turned down? Is there a caveat that, in order to get the money he has to fill the seats? Has Beeston never gone to them, because he doesn’t believe it’s the right time. I mean, there are all kinds of possibilities and all kinds of stories out there, and I keep telling people, I don’t know what’s going on here. And nobody is telling me, from either side. We’ve heard stories, but we’ve heard conflicting stories about what the exact relationship is between the Blue Jays and Rogers. Give me your sense, one more time, as to what you think might be going on.”

“I have no information or no knowledge to suggest that there’s been a big ask that was turned down– let’s put it that way,” Brunt says. “Like a Cecil Fielder [sic] kind of ask, or a $50-million posting for Yu Darvish kind of ask. No one has said to me– no one has whispered to me, you know, ‘we asked for that and they turned us down.’ So I don’t think that’s happened. There may have been some smaller instances when they went in with a specific player in mind, and somebody said, ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea,’ I don’t know. But I think the notion that this is a lock-type, we’re not going to spend another nickel, do the best you can kind of situation– that doesn’t work for the Jays, obviously, and that also doesn’t work for the owners. The better the team is, the more money they make. The brand– the value of the brand is important to them on a whole bunch of different levels: the TV, radio, all over the place. So, I think they want to win. And I think that they would spend to win at the moment when they thought spending would actually make a difference.”

Then what’s, for me, the real money quote:

“All that said, Bob, I think this winter, they’re almost kind of painted into a corner,” Brunt went on. “I think they have to spend now, just because it’s kind of turned back on them, and it’s– if you don’t spend flamboyantly, then you’re a bunch of cheap so-and-sos, so I expect them to do something quite– try and do something quite dramatic this winter and make a splash.”

Brunt here is bang on, encapsulating the fucked up moment we’re about to enter this winter. And what really stings is that, while it’s a moment that was partly setup by the club’s failure this season– for a number of reasons, including terrible luck with injury and the progression of young players– it’s also been setup by the choices the team, and especially ownership, made last season with respect to money.

I’ve maintained all along that what Alex Anthopoulos was selling was what appeared to be a way past the must-spend moments that so blew up in the face of his predecessor. Yet now here we are. The luxury Anthopoulos had last year to sit back and not pay the prices required to improve his club no longer exists, and he must find a way to spend big, and spend wisely.

Obviously, that’s one hell of a trick to have to pull off.

“You get back to the money thing, number one,” Brunt explains. “The spending will be determined to some degree by who’s on the market and what the market demands. And some of the stories that have come out just in the last little while– Carlos Beltran: the Jays offered him more money and more term and he turned it down. So, guys have got to want to come here, with Toronto as the highest bidder. There are going to be certain kinds of players who are not on the market– not a lot of starting pitchers on the market this year– so that means trades and taking on salary in different ways and acquiring players in different ways, so– look, it’s going to be a very, very significant off-season for this team, I think, and I think that Beeston being extended for however long he’s been extended for, I think both he and Alex Anthopoulos are kind of on the line here. This is their moment to be creative, and the ownership is on the line, because they’re going to have to support them.”

Precisely. It’s going to be a damn interesting winter. It better be.

Comments (337)

  1. Being willing to spend is only one half of the equation. Need to have players willing to take those loonies.

    • I have a bad feeling in my stomach.

    • I’m already preparing myself for Marcum to be the only big addition to the pitching and have him collapse/get injured after 150 innings.

      It’s all over, man!

    • March to the drum of free agency and watch it all fall apart.(See Current N H L ).There is a limited to outright greed and we the fans are saying enough of this.endless money pit..I say the hell with the N H L and all that goes with it…..As for Rogers/Bell and the Jays it is quite a major puzzle as noboby seems to to be out-front showing the way…

  2. The plot thickens.

  3. So with this story and the Farrell shit show does this add up to a large percentage of the Jays’ on firld and upper management not believing Rogers will pony up the dough when the time comes?

    • oh c’mon

    • I would think the last 12 years of Rogers ownership (in which they’ve only had one above average payroll) would say more about that than anything else.

      • Lets get a Drunk Jays Fans kickstarter going where we try and buy the Jays.

        What do you think we need to raise? 500 mill?

      • +1.

        The PTS show is fascinating this afternoon. Apparently AA was unhappy with Farrell’s control of the clubhouse, undisciplined play, Escobar fiasco etc. So , he wanted to see what Boston would offer for Farrell.

        Rogers in chaos as usual. The apologists have egg on their faces TM :)))

        • False, but nice try.

        • Based on the level of gullibility you display, it’s amazing that you have the adult income to afford season tickets.

          To quote the great Frank Grimes, “if you lived in any other country in the world, you’d have starved to death long ago.”

          Other than America of course.

        • @ Oakville

          My previous comment was meant for you as well, not Stoeten.

          As much as I insult you and I assume you hang out with many other individuals with season tickets who are equally as dumb, please continue to contribute to the Rogers piggybank.

          Your hard earned dollars are needed for a payroll boost and I’d hate to think that our continued insults have convinced you to spend your dollars elsewhere.

          You are a moron, but your dollars are needed for me to enjoy a winning product.

  4. Interesting indeed, I always think the fact AA got rid of that atrocious Vernon Wells contract and inked Jose and EE to the contracts they are on should give him some right to spend a little bit. I mean, I don’t have the Vernon numbers in front of me but the cost avoided should warrant spending that much on one or two potential “all stars” or at the very lest solidify the roster with above replacement level players at third, first and left. or pitching depth.

    • “…solidify the roster with above replacement level players at third…”

      Are you retarded?

    • One of the reasons the Vernon Wells deal was so good was because we believed the Jays would put that saved money into acquiring an actual elite player to take his place. That still hasn’t happened yet.

      • Bautista.

        • ya Bautista and E.E is vernons contract

        • To an extent, but that was a player that was already on their roster and an investment that was nowhere near the kind that was made with Wells. No significant addition has been made.

          • An elite player’s an elite player, no? Who cares whether he comes from another team or the dark corner of the Jays’ own bench?

          • In his case, no. There were significant questions at the time about whether Bautista would continue to be an elite player and many expected his production to drop off. Because of that, he got a contract that wasn’t fit at all for an elite player and a contract that turned out to be a tremendous bargain.

            The fact that they’ve lucked out with guys like Bautista and EE and still haven’t made a real splash on the FA market despite cutting payroll significantly is another charge against this cheap ownership.

            • I feel like the way they stuck with EE the two years previous to this one when he was pretty shitty should suggest that they saw something we werent seeing. i feel like with EE at least you can take some of the luck out of it. remember when they traded straight up scott rolen for him? we were crying for their blood but it looks like they might have been privy to somethings that we were not.

          • Trading Wells was done one month before the Jays extended Bautista.

            At the time the money left on Wells contract was higher than the contract for Bautista.

            Edwin’s 27 million & Bautista’s 65 million is still less than what was owed to Vernon Wells.

          • @simon says
            Wasnt Zack Stewart and Josh Roenicke in there somewhere? Yeah ok found it…Scott Rolen for EE, Josh Roenicke and Zack stewart.

            • @carl sagan

              Yah i suppose i should have looked that up my point is i dont think the jays lucked out with him. they saw something there and they trusted themselves enough to wait for it to come out.

      • Jay’s time to strike was last offseason, Prince Fielder…they blew it and now they really have their work cut out for them.

        • @Oakville


          There was less than $91 million remaining on Wells’ deal and it was reported the Jays ate a few million as well.

  5. Greinke!

    • id get Marcum back since he wants to come back he’s a B+ starter, and spend whatever it takes to get Greinke, I do believe that The ownership/rogers is being very cheap. The time is now New york is getting old and Boston is in disarray. Time to spend spend if not when? when?

    • No way we’re getting Greinke. Kid doesn’t want to pitch for a fucking losing club.

      I almost feel bad for guys like Bautista and Encarnacion that will never win a ring.

      • Havent the Angels got all kinds of $$ to sign him? i dont know why – if the $$ were right- he wouldnt just stay put.

  6. Another great article.

    I too loved the quote:

    “Then what’s, for me, the real money quote:

    “All that said, Bob, I think this winter, they’re almost kind of painted into a corner,” Brunt went on. “I think they have to spend now, just because it’s kind of turned back on them, and it’s– if you don’t spend flamboyantly, then you’re a bunch of cheap so-and-sos, so I expect them to do something quite– try and do something quite dramatic this winter and make a splash.””

    Events, read injuries, player regression and failure to meet fans expectations imo certainly have painted them into a corner. As I commented the other day, Rogers is probably aware of this or at least they certainly need to be. If they want to continue to capitalize on their investment then it’s time to spend. They need to look at it like it’s the next wave of cellular technology and make the investment or get left behind. Personally, I think they’ve failed to do so in the past and are behind to a certain extent already but that’s another post. No doubt there’s been slight improvements with the increase in amateur spending and hiring of additional scouts but that doesn’t actually add up to lot in terms of the difference in payrolls. The difference the Jays spent on amateurs and the team that spent the least is a few million at most. Less than what a decent free agent would cost.

    As for any potential rift with Beetson, I mean wtf? Does this team need any more bad news even if it just turns out to be idle speculation and nothing more? Clubhouse turmoil, managerial turmoil and now potential front office turmoil. The only thing that’s missing is the new that Rogers is really running a giant ponzi scheme and doesn’t actually have billions of dollars.

    This calendar year can’t end quickly enough for the Jays.

    • +1.

      With the impending chaos of losing a manager to a division rival for what may be minimal compensation will be even worse.

      The optics of losing Farrell & perhaps Butter & some othe coaches is worse if you are trying to attract free agents To Toronto.

      It’s rare for a manager to manuever his way out of a contract.

      It’s still baffling as to whether Farell would prefer to be in Boston , since this is what the Boston Globe is reporting, so he doesn’t mind what AA is doing to let him go.

      This would be much more fun if Francona was available.

    • I almost dont want to say this but………..
      “Anus Horribilis”

  7. Did this air on TV or just radio? If it was on TV, could anyone see Beeston’s hand actually enter Brunt when he started this speech? Did Beeston move his lips along with Brunt or is he a decent ventriloquist?

  8. so, the MLB has forced smart front offices out of all the good investments (draft, international prospects), the exact same year the Jays would like to dip into free agency.


  9. It sounds like even Beeston has gotten tired of defending and excusing the ownership of this baseball team. I never thought we’d reach the day, but Rogers can have that kind of effect on you.

    And yes, Anthopoulos has been thrown into a situation much like his predecessor Ricciardi was. After these last three seasons ranging from mediocrity to failure, the fans’ good will is gone and their patience has worn thin. For the sake of this baseball team (if not his own job security), he has put himself into a position where he has to build a winner at this point, even if it isn’t necessarily to best time to do so and even if he has to abandon his original plan.

    I’m not sure they’ll be able to be able to get it done so soon no matter how many changes (and how much spending) this offseason brings. There are just so many holes and so many question marks throughout the roster (much more probably than any season since Anthopoulos began his tenure, IMO). But if it goes down like it did in 2005/2006 offseason, it will at least be nice to have the Jays at least trying to win going into next season instead of whatever the last three seasons were.

    • +1. Now that you think of it, it does seem that Beeston gave the inside scoop to Brunt.

      Beeston knows Rogers won’t fire him.

      Now can Beeston extort say 50 million from Rogers to increase payroll especially if they lose Farrell.

      Can AA spend it wisely??

      On the Farrell issue. Didn’t AA want Sandy Alomar JR, but the rest f the management team want Farrell???

  10. What does he mean by make a splash? Cause I really don’t think they need to go out and get a Hamilton or someone like that. Sure it’d be great, at a reasonable price, but I’d be happy getting a couple of solid contributors. Is, say, Napoli and Haren a splash? I don’t think so, but I’d be pretty stoked if AA was able to get two or three guys like that.

    • Hamilton would fall apart like a Chinese motorcycle on the turf and the Toronto P.D. would inevitably find him passed out in an alley with an empty crack pipe lying next to him on one side and an empty bottle of hooch on the other.

    • I’m not big on Napoli, Haren would be a great fit. What other 1B/DH options are out there though, I think Ortiz will end up back in Boston.

    • Getting three starters like Haren, Jackson and Marcum for example would be a fairly decent splash as an example. No true ace there but I’m just tossing out names to make a point. Add in one of a 2nd baseman or Left Fielder and that would be a pretty impressive winter considering the upgrades to the pen this year.

      • That’s what I’m worried about, people are going to start thinking anything short of, say Greinke for example, would be a failure. The way I see it, the top end talent of the team is fine. The problem is the holes they have a huge, fucking gaping holes. You don’t need to get the top level free agents to fill them, just solid tier 2ish types.

        • Totally agree. Getting Grienke would be great but it wouldn’t immediately result in a failed winter if you didn’t get him.

          In the Jays case they also have to worry about putting too much of their payroll into one basket. Would it be smarter to diversify the risk by going out and getting a Haren and Marcum for say $25 million combined or giving the bulk of that to a Greinke and say someone like Happ. Both pairs have the potential to give you the same total WAR at seasons end but if Greinke and Haren both went out with injuries, in which scenario would it hurt the Jays more?

          • Marcum makes the most sense because he is the one who is most likelyest to return to Toronto.

            He’s not the best available pitcher, but I think AA could sell it to Rogers.

            They could also play the “I’m coming home” song that they use to use for Ricky Romero.

      • I would make Jackson and Marcum major targets. I think both could shore up the rotation incredibly and be very serviceable pieces for the team. Haren is the one of the three I would want most, but I see them being able to have both Marcum(he being the easiest and cheapest to acquire) and Jackson.

      • I guess with the wild card system as it is, you need a legit number 1 to maximize your shot at advancing, but if you can have 5 no. 2s, then you’re going to have a very good staff.

      • Haren, marcum and Jackson would be a tsunami not a splash

    • I’d think that would be a splash for sure. Add Marcum and a decent outfielder to the mix and that’s a ball club.

    • Personally I was all for a Dan Haren signing and a trade for Brett Anderson, but the latter got injured again at the end of the season. I’m not sure who’s available, but if the Jays can trade for a pitcher who’s similar in talent, but less-often injured, I’d be down for that.

      • The great thing about Brett Anderson is because he might come cheap because of his injury history. Something like Yunel Escobar might suffice for him.

        Someone of a similar talent but less injured will cost a Matt Latos like package.

        • Trading Yunel Escobar for a SP will only serve to create another major hole on this roster.

        • @Argos: It’s a buy low situation, which is why I don’t think he’ll get moved. Beane is far smarter than that.

          @BFF: Agreed. Escobar can still fill a hole, and I still believe he should be considered the prime candidate for 2B unless an alternative presents itself.

          • Well if it is a low-for-low deal, he might.

            Buying low on Escobar is a Beane type move, especially considering his affordable contract that he is probably salivating at.

    • A big splash might be signing Kevin Gregg. He’s got upside.

      Don’t get your hopes up. These guys aren’t signing shit.

  11. I simply can’t believe how much insightful and intelligent information was transmitted on Prime Time Sports. Thanks, Stoeten.

  12. Spend wisely by getting players on short-term deals.

    Someone like David Ortiz or Marco Scutaro (but obviously, you need pitchers too).

  13. My dream off-season in my video game world:

    1. Sign Ortiz to 2-year, $26 million deal
    2. Sign Scutaro to a 2-year, $14 million deal
    3. Trade JP & Alvarez for Garza and a mid ranked prospect
    4. Trade Yunel Escobar & Daniel Norris for Brett Anderson

    • You’d give up 2 MLB players with a combined 9 years of team control for one year of Garza? The same Garza that regressed back to his normal self in 2012?

      • It would be contingent on getting a window and trying to sign him long-term before the trade.

        Garza is still a proven number two in the AL East. And you maybe forgetting how expensive pitching cost last season, for guys like Latos and Gio. Pitching costs a lot.

      • Plus I’m not very high on either JP or Alvarez.

        • Latos and Gio both have more than 1 year of control dude, and are 2 (Gio) and 4 (Mat) years younger.

          Also, to be more correct, Garza didn’t prove much of anything in the AL East except two things: he could rape the Jays, and he can pull off the greatest impersonation of a goat.

          • I know those guys had more years of control, but I’m saying starters in general are expensive. And this JP & Alvarez package is no where close to what those two netted.

    • I’d say 1 and 2 are doable though that’s a lot of money for someone as old as Ortiz not to mention his recent injury.

      I think 3 is silly. You could probably trade either one plus a much lower ceiling prospect for one year of Garza and he’s also got injury issues now. I think JP has more value than people give him credit for but that’s just me.

      4 Might be possible but Norris really seemed to hurt his value this summer. If you had Scutaro locked up already then moving Hech to SS wouldn’t be the end of the world.

      Based on your scenario you’d be looking at increasing payroll roughly $30 million after subtracting Escobar, Alvarez and Arencibia’s salaries and you’d probably have to start the season with a rookie catcher with d’Arnaud or sign another veteran.

      Worst of all you’d have that Happ guy as your 5th starter lol

      • I’m fine with Happ as the number 5 guy.

        • Sadly that keeps me up at night.

          • With a rotation of Garza, Anderson, Morrow, and Romero, I think you have a decent rotation (though, injuries and depth will be a major concern with both Garza and Anderson and even Morrow).

            If I thought Rogers would increase the payroll a shit load, then I might say go for someone like Marcum too. In that scenario, the Jays would have 5 legit number two, or better.

          • Depth would be a major problem unless you had additional signings. At this point you’re really just looking at Jenkins if you trade Alvarez and move Happ into the 5th spot. At least until the 2nd half of the year when prospects have more time under their belts and guys like Drabek get closer to making a return from injuries. That’s why I’d love to see them sign 3 guys outright. Move Happ to swing man and demote Alvarez to work on his other pitches. Of course AA has said depth is going to be one of his goals this year so you never know.

            Personally I am skeptical the budget will be there for 3 starters plus the other holes but I do feel that from comments made by AA and Farrell that Alvarez would still get the nod over Happ as a starter.

      • Plus I’m fine with D’Arnaud and Mathis as the catchers, I think a rookie can handle it.

        Norris hurt his value a lot, which is why I would trade him now, before his value goes to the drain, unless the Jays believe he will recover. But deal him before it is too low. I don’t think you need to add much to a Yunel for Anderson swap to get it done, and Norris might tip the scales to get Billy Beane to pull the trigger.

    • What a joke. No way are we doing any of that shit.

      Fuck Garza dude… Seriously. One year of fucking control? Just wait until he’s a fucking FA.

  14. Why no love for the commenter that dropped the link and everything before that the post is about?

    Beeston has been already shown to overextend his capabilities. I’ll stick with Alex’s guarded conservatism in expectations going forward. Fuck everyone except AA Bautista Jannssenn EE and the young guys.

  15. My impression is this is the year that it makes the most sense to get big free agent pitchers, and not next year. They don’t have a really good pitching prospect ready to enter the rotation this year. But then next year and the year after, you’ve got the three guys at Lansing ready to gradually come up which might have more impact than free agents anyway. This year seems like the year.

    • Drabek and Hutch also enter the equation too. They need a guy for two years to bridge, actually they need two pitchers.

    • This also has the effect of allowing the Big 3 and Osuna time to develop and not be rushed like we did to Snider, Alvarez,.________insert Jays prospect name here.

      As with most on here this is the off season for Rogers to put up or shut up. If they don’t at least attempt to spend spend I’ll shove my phone right up Nadir and Pelley’s asses (alternately) and make them dial each other.

  16. Get Marcum back and spend whatever it takes to get Greinke. Get rid of Yunel cause Hechavarria is glove rdy plus Yunel’s bat was useless so your not losing out on anything, say goodbye to Kelly johnson. Still pissed that AA got rid of Aaron Hill, did that move ever backfire

  17. For fuck sakes, can the media stop stating the carlos beltran thing as a fact. The jays never made him an offer. He said so himself. Either it was made up by the jays to make themselves look like they will spend or by his agent to drive the price up.

    • Yeah that’s a good point. They’ve mentioned it more than a few times since Beltran refuted the claim. That’s the thing that bothers me about the guests on McCowan’s show at times, a lot of them are light on the facts when it comes to stuff they are talking about yet they still say shit and then it gets picked up by the average fan as gospel.

      • The guests on Mccowan’s show are horrible. Mccowan asked someone if he had done any reporting on the Farrell to Boston rumours & he said he had read Shi Davidi’s article. That’s absurb. It might have been Michael Grange.

        On the bright side they talked about Tim & Sid moving to Rogers from the Score.

        Could our beloved Stoeten,Parkes & Drew get a radio show on the FAN??

        • “That’s the thing that bothers me about the guests on McCowan’s show at times, a lot of them are light on the facts when it comes to stuff they are talking about yet they still say shit and then it gets picked up by the average fan as gospel.”

          Oakville, do you not realize you are the average fan that night_manimal considers a dumbass?

          And he is correct.

    • +10.

      Beltran told some reporter at the all star game that the Jays never made a formal offer to him.

      The story about him turning down more money from the Jays is BS.

      • yeah – never made a ‘formal offer’… have you considered the possibility they called his agent and said would carlos consider toronto for x dollars and x years… when the answer was ‘no’ there was no need to write up a formal offer.

  18. Bets the Jays don’t even try for Otani? Not like they need pitching.

  19. Paul Beeston is a very popular guy in Toronto still– he’s very, very popular with the media. A lot of guys have long-standing relationships with him, including you and me, and if Paul Beeston left uncomfortably from this job, not on his terms, it would be a very tough thing for the Blue Jays and for Rogers to manage, I think.


    Jesus Christ, the fucking media’s self-importance never fucking ceases to amaze me. You people are IRRELEVANT. Beeston has been a complete disaster since Rogers has owned the club. He has been an abject, total failure in everything he’s done, everything he’s said and everything he’s touched. Great, he had something to do with the 92 and 93 teams, sort of. Wonderful. As if signing guys like Molitor and Winfield to two-year deals was this huge risk. Every time Beeston speaks, it’s stupid and awkward. He CAN NOT obtain money for free agents, as was proven last year. He CAN NOT make playing conditions more attractive to players. He COULD NOT convince an ownership made up of cretins that work in a monopoly that “guarantees” don’t exist in baseball. He DOES NOT use e-mail which means he’s got to go to a christing BBQ to discuss this Farrell nonsense. LET HIM GO.

    “Oh, but he’s really popular with the other dinosaurs in this town and an- an– ”

    What the fuck is he good for? Why should any fan that would like to see this franchise take the next step give two shits if he stays or goes? Since Rogers bought the team he has done NOTHING. Oh, he should stay because the old print media, the irrelevan, killing-time-till-retirement media wouldn’t LIKE it. The media that somehow couldn’t let loose that the guy signed an extension, that’s how close Beeston is with those guys. What a debacle. I’d love to see what a trainwreck this team would be if AA left and one guy on the roster didn’t inexplicably poof into Mike Schmidt each year.

    • good points Jonsey but I believe its more of the ownership/Rogers fault. AA and beeston have there hands tied behind there back, they cant go for a piss without permission.

      • But that’s what I mean – why is Beeston even here? You and I can go to Rogers and say, “$125 mill for Hamilton?” and get turned down, and we’d do it for a lot less and have better haircuts. Beeston just seems to be involved because he was always involved. And that is infuriating. If he leaves, then great – maybe the next guy is on better terms with ownership and we might be able to go past the Ceiling of Darren Oliver when it comes to FA acquisitions.

        • But would you be wearing socks though? Beeston can get away with a lot of shit.

          Yeah, he’s definitely riding the coat-tails of the 1992-1993 WS winning teams. But he also has multiple contacts within MLB, including the all-important one, Bud Selig.

        • “You and I can go to Rogers and say, “$125 mill for Hamilton?” and get turned down, and we’d do it for a lot less and have better haircuts.”

          Yes, because that’s exactly what he does. He goes down with hands out, begging for money.


          • Sorry, what the fuck does Beeston do then, exactly? You want to start this shit, then let’s start this shit, dickhead. I was being generous implying that he even does that much. I understand that sarcastic exaggeration is completely fucking beyond you, but please: defend his job.

          • I did ICJ. Check a little farther down.
            Remember to bring your big boy pants because there’s no crying in baseball..

        • If Beeston left, wouldn’t Rogers hire a corporate lackey like John Tory who could be a friendly face to the media .?

      • +1.

        If it’s true that Beeston’s requessts for money have been rejected by Rogers then I can understand why he makes those weird statements to the media.

    • Bobcat just confirmed on air that Beeston has signed a 2-year deal to stay on.

      • Beeston is just the spokesman for Rogers ownership saying “we cant afford that” or “he wants more then 5 yrs no way” and even”10 million more for Chapman, hold on…rogers said no so no”. AA has so limited restricted resources that the only thing he could do is just build up his farm system. But if there is a time to spend ,the time is now New york getting old ,Boston is in disarray. we finally got a window of opportunity here. I expect a big off season if not I feel like a maple leaf fan.

        Rogers your a billion$ company stop being jewish!!!!

  20. Fuck me, do I ever hate the stupid ads above your DJF banner Stoeten.

    Every time I move my mouse from the top RH corner of my screen down to your DJF banner to refresh, it pops up and I fucking click it.

    Now I have to actually use my brain and move the mouse down, then over to the left.

    Reading a sports blog shouldn’t be so difficult.

    (I know, waaaaaaaah!) Just sayin is all….

  21. we could picket the rogers centre. nothing crazy, just like 2 hours a day for 3 days straight.

    we’d get some media coverage -there’s no hockey so the sports “journalists” would jump all over the content.

    This would be the first time i can think of fans protesting because of displeasure due to mediocreness, so we might get some international coverage. maybe start a sports fan movement if that is of any value to anyone.

    clever picket signs and dummies holding bags of cash with dollar sigs on them of whomever we chose to vilify.

    we’d need an effective spokesperson, someone like Getti Lee or even better, some old lady who has been a season ticket holder since the beginning.

  22. I’m jk btw Karen, I have no idea if you’re old or not!! I’ve heard a few of them call wilners show, though. I like your idea, dude, we need to make this happen

    • if we could get 100 of us and all contribute $2 each we could have a singer/song writer contest to write our theme song. you know, all the Toronto Arts Council grant applicant types.

      they could present their songs at the protest site. not because they would write anything of value, but just to add noise to the cluster fuck that we create.

      nothing says annoying protest like hippies twanging on the gee-tar singing their misguided hearts out.


      • Wow!! You actually know how to use the shift key for capital letters!! Impressive!

        • i’m not a fan of capitalizing a word just willy nilly because we’re supposed to. a word that begins a sentence or has the status of a proper noun does not meet my test of earning capitalization. and one must admit, you still understand what i am writing.

          it is my belief that when one chooses not capitalize a word that it will actually have increased impact when one does. it can denote respect, significance to name a few.

          ex. vernon wells, andrew stoeten, Gregg Zaun

          to me, capitalization is an effective communication tool that many people diminish in value by conforming to standard use.

          to wrap your mind around it think of some who usually speaks a reasonable/calm, but low volume (proper indoor voice). when that person does raise their voice it will have greater impact, and thus have increased dramatic effect when they do.

          i understand if holding on to traditional structure is important to you. being part of a group and mimicking the actions of the rest of the group make many people feel safe and comfortable.

          remember that written language throughout has rarely remained static. it evolves and often has a fixed practical life. therefore, i recommend of thinking of the act of written communication as communication, rather than an exercise. assuming that you have any conviction for what you write, use the language to accent what you believe deserves accenting.

  23. Whatever AA decides either through trade or FA, I just don’t want to hear the phrases “club friendly contract” or “years of control” in any sentence he says between now and spring training. I’m so sick of that. I’d rather they overspend and if it blows up on them at least they’ve tried.

    • Was Vernon Wells really that long ago? “Club friendly contracts” and “years of control” help bring “championships”

  24. so, does this give rise to the awesome headline/pun potential with Rogers CEO N. Mohammed and the Jays.

    Webster’s Dictionary definition of Nadir


    The lowest point in the fortunes of a person or organization.

    cmon man, this shit writes itself

    Too bad Rogers bought the Jays instead of Zenith Electronics (now a subsidiary of LG). The antonym of nadir (the lowest point) is Zenith (the highest point).

  25. Here we go:


    Sources: #RedSox, #BlueJays making progress on Farrell compensation agreement. Deal between Farrell and Red Sox fait accompli after that.

    • You know, the way this, the Darvish thing last year and a few other tidbits have gone down, I am thinking the Jays/AA policy of keeping info tight to their vest has been a colossal failure and actually had the opposite effect they may have been hoping for. Time to take another look at a lot of things because it is all looking rather messy right now.

      • I’m not sure if it’s helped from a player acquisition perspective, but it’s DEFINITELY been bad from a PR perspective.

        • Agreed. I would not be shocked if the Red Sox know they can spread rumors & leaks that Farrell wants to come back to Boston, so they create an atmosphere where it makes Farrell look that he wants to leave so it’s easy for AA to let him go.

    • Kenny is usually pretty accurate with his info.

      Sounds like this is happening.

  26. There’s baseball to watch. Is this our weekend playoff threat?

  27. If I am to believe what is written in this post, and I don’t, this organization is like a rutterless ship. The plan is very clear, free agents won’t come here till we start winning, so invest in the farm. So it’ll take some time till the kids are ready. Winning and making money generally go together (this years Jays broke that rule). This is not lost on either Rogers or Beeston. The rest is just selling newsapapers

    • Have you noticed that DJF has become the TMZ of the Jays?

      • haha..

      • +1
        I was just thinking the same thing.
        Just because someone said it, doesn’t mean they have to print it.

        • The funny part is Stoeten is always shitting on people about these type of things. The worm has turned and I am not impressed with the fucking “Editor” due to the shit he slayed on his commentators and the obvious lack of respect from earlier.

          • An “article” about AA cancelling a radio appearance, and speculation about a rift. Kinda funny.

          • +1.

            It seems to me that Stoeten has shifted from Rogers apology mode to understanding the frustration that the fans & posters have had with this team.

            It’s one thing to drink the kool aid & wait for the Lansing trio to rescue the franchise in 2014 or 2015, but the reality is that the Jays are about to lose their manager & maybe most of the coaching staff to a division rival for nominal compensation.

            AA may be unhappy with clubhouse discipline, baserunning blunders etc but it’s a black eye for AA.

            Farrell could easily have said that he wants to stay with the Jays, but the fact that he hasn’t said he has a long term commitment to TORONTO MEANS HE DOESN’T CARE IF THEY LET HIM GO.

      • I can’t believe how much traffic and comments came as a result of this. Hmmm….

        • I know, and as I was skimming through comments, I see somebody call me an old lady.

          • Oh boy, here we go…

            The rest of us tried to look away.
            I guess ‘pre-owned’ doesn’t work either.
            ‘Gently used?’
            ‘A classic’ perhaps?

          • ‘Low mileage?’
            ‘Second hand’ doesn’t seem right.
            ‘Affordable?’ Hmmm.

          • We could get Anonymous to track them down by their IP address. The mood is getting ugly on these pages.

          • Don’t worry Karen. I can guarantee I’m older than you are. I think I’m one of the old ladies referred to by the callow youth above.

      • Here’s an idea for his next “article”"


    • It seems that if you listen to Brunt he was quite emphatic that beeston did not understand how he could get approval from Rogers to spend money.

      In the Labatt days, they let beeston & gillick do whatever they wanted . Obviously, players did not cost as much then, so any mistakes weren’t as as serious.

      The Jays were also a winning team with a spiffy new stadium, so revenues were not an issue.

      In fact, when skydome opened up, all the box suites were sold out for 10 year contracts which provided a steady source of revenue.

      Skydome was also sold out from 1989- 1994.

      Beeston could lay along with the rebuild for a few years, but it could be that he was rebuffed trying to get money to bid for Darvish or any other free agents this year.

  28. Happy Panda!

    • Threatened Panda. Every time he attempts shit like that he threatens himself with extinction.

  29. The Molina brothers didn’t fall far from the tree. No gazelles, mind.

  30. I’m finding it harder and harder to much care who wins when my support of the Crads is predicated upon allowing The Dear Leader to score points off of Drew and Dustin.

    • I would like the Giants to win but don’t have any issues with the Cards. If the Cards win tonight we won’t any baseball until Wednesday so for that reason alone I would like to the Giants show some signs of life and not go gently into the night. I’m not ready for the end of baseball season.

    • I have noticed “Drew” the lowly ankle biter has spent a lot of time doing the shuffle..alas he has no wheels as his nippage is weak.

  31. wow that was a weird play

  32. Nice throw. Shit.

  33. Maybe in Lynn’s next game they could do what developers do and simply call the 4th inning the 5th instead. The dreaded 13th floor magically ceases to exist.

  34. Beltran has stated Blue Jays were in contact no offer made, or it was smaller becuase Beltran said he didn’t hear of an offer from the Blue Jays. It’s been reported all over that the Indians had a higher offer than the Cards.

  35. So, is Scutaro too rich for AA’s blood now?

  36. I’ll be staying clear of any news when this Farrell to Boston thing happens. The news conference will be too much shit-eating grin-age for my liking. Then life will march forward.

    • No doubt, it’ll be the worst. An old fashioned Fenway Party, circa 2004-07. Farrell, Cherington, Lucchino & maybe even John Fuckin’ Henry himself will be seated in front of that brick wall with the Dunkin’ Donuts logo emblazoned everywhere. There will be some big time laughs with Farrell’s old buddies in the local media, but also some serious, grandiose talk of a return to the ‘glory days’ of 2007. The word “Culture” will figure prominently. While this is going on, Clay Buccholz will be weeping in the arms of his pretty wife.

    • It will be a sad day for blue jay fans unless a starting pitcher shows up in uniform.

      Red Sox fans will crow that they got the manager they wanted from the AAA Canadian club with a general manager named AA.

      We will look like little league team. Toronto will be the laughinstock of the MLB that can’t even prevent mediocre managers from leaving.

      Watch Farrell turn into a competent manager once he gets back to Boston.

  37. These rollover ads on the site are fucking annoying.

  38. Tom must be eating dinner.

  39. DD says ‘Happy Panda!’

  40. How come we don’t have a LFer like that?

  41. Rosterbation time!

  42. In an article published tonight, Bob Elliott reports that Farrell wanted the club to release Omar Vizquel back in July:


  43. “This ship is listing……..”

    - Shea Hillenbrand, Oct. 2012

  44. I’m beginning to feel like it’s time to turn the news off for a few days.

  45. I’m not sure if it would be weird to make this news on the weekend, but I feel like with the day-off in the NLCS and no ALCS game, it’s a good time for an announcement.

  46. Oh yeah! Scissor me Xerxes.

  47. Remember that lake of goodwill AA built in Years 1 and 2. And let’s be honest, it was a fucking ocean.

    Has AA actually done something so offensive in the last year to have all that goodwill pissed away? Not Rogers. Just AA?

    Personally, I don’t think so. I think there should be a ton of trust.

    But here we are.

    • +1 he’s still a ninja to me.

    • The goodwill is mostly gone.

      It doesn’t look like a ninja move by AA to lose his manager who has 1 year left on his contract & gets to go to a division rival for minimal compensation.

      AA loses ninja status if he trades a manager for a mediocre prospect.

      AA loses ninja status for letting the other coaches walk out the door which shows a bigger problem than just Farrell wanting to go back home.

      • @ Oakville

        In one breathe you bitch about AA and in another you admit “AA could not dliver, probably due to Rogers payroll restrictions.”

        So, basically, you are pissed at Rogers and continue to mistakenly expect AA to be better because he has to deal with a shitty owner.

        And now all this BS about Farrell and the coaches – which you lap up like an idiot might I add – what exactly do you expect? Are you blaming AA that Farrell wants to go to a team with a larger payroll and better chance to win, even after their summer purge?

        Seriously, a fucking child could seperate AA from Rogers better than you can dipshit.

    • If the Toronto Sun article is true about Farrell being upset about the lack of starting pitching & AA’s obsession with acquiring relievers, then that looks even worse.

      AA can fool the fans , but Farreell knows what the team needs, & AA could not dliver, probably due to Rogers payroll restrictions.

      • I’ll say this – and don’t get me wrong, I’ve been incredibly disappointed with AA;s lack of additions over the last year or so – but did any other GM really bring in as much talent at the trade deadline as AA did?

        JA Happ wound up being really good in the rotation before his injury, and Steve Delabar and Brandon Lyon were both fantastic for the Jays. Brad Lincoln not so much, but for the most part AA turned around the bullpen and did add one very productive starting pitcher at the deadline.

        Obviously none of these were big names, but they certainly made more sense for the Jays than renting someone like Greinke or Dempster. There wasn’t really anyone else traded at the deadline that would have made as much sense for the Jays (controllable beyond 2012) than the guys they added. Perhaps you’d argue Hanley Ramirez, but guys like Justin Upton, Matt Garza and some of the other non-free agents didn’t end up getting moved.

        • At the time we were all disappointed, so I can see why Farrell was, but looking back, it’s hard to blame AA for the trade deadline.

          He solidified the bullpen in a pretty big way, it seems, and likely found his number five starter for 2013. Not the flashiest moves, but this offseason would look even more daunting if the Jays needed to rebuild their bullpen (again) and add three good starters instead of two.

          • It’s also likely harder to get quality pitchers in season that don’t have expiring contracts… harder than in the offseason, at least.

            That he didn’t get a starter at the deadline doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

    • I have faith in AA; Rogers, not so much.

  48. Let me get this straight.
    Rogers is evil because they are cheap and only want profit.
    Pelly and Beeston don’t get along because Beeston is horrible.
    Beeston and AA have stabilized the franchise,rid the Jays of the Wells and Rios contracts saving millions,taken the farm system from 29th to top 5,increased attendance,increased tv viewership by 50%,changed the teams uniform and logo so it sells like hotcakes, hasn’t asked for more money to spend on FA’s ( yet),gamed the amateur draft so much that MLB had to change the rules and he has everybody talking about the Jays.
    Rogers gets a product that provides content across all platforms, helped launch another Sportsnet network ( remember not all games were televised until SN1)and has raised the profile and value of a property that was declining in popularity.
    Beeston ran the Jays for twenty years,was the president and COO of MLB for 5 years( do you think he might have some contacts in his rolodex or any inside info?).
    With all this, I’m supposed to believe Beeston’s an idiot,that Rogers doesn’t like the extra profit he’s making for the company and they think somebody else would or can do better.
    So Pelly and Rogers aren’t happy with Beeston because they expected him to do what exactly?Stand on his head and spit out gold coins?
    Maybe ICJ would like Godfrey back?
    Doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    • + Billions and Billions Radar

        • I’m not convinced Oakville..
          The article doesnt even address the fact that AA did an extensive search before they hired Farrell and probably had a shortlist of managers in mind before they enered into the compensation talks.
          ps Read the Sox fans comments. They’re not Farrell fans.

          • @Carl. Wouldn’t it have made sense for AA to say Farrell is under contract & he won’t let Farrell go publicly??

            This would force the Red Sox to either hire someone else or give up even more compensation for Farrell.

            AA being quiet isn’t helping because it looks like he doesn’t want Farrell back for 2013.

          • It’s not out of the realm that AA would have prepared for the possibility that Boston would play that card. If I were AA I’d go to Farrell before compensation talks started and say “Boston wants you and we want you. If it’s ok with you I’m going to see what they’re offering. If I’m not happy, I’ll come back and extend you for 2 more years with a nice pay raise.”

        • So let me get this straight:

          I’m supposed to believe that waiting a week and a half has made this a genius move for the Red Sox, and makes the Jays look like “chumps”? Did Lucchino or Cherinngton write that?

          How dumb does Speier think I am, as a reader?

          None of what he’s written makes a modicum of sense to me. Toronto has zero pressure. If the deal isn’t made and ” the dynamic between Farrell and the Jays has become sufficiently frosty that Toronto is comfortable letting him walk”… then let him walk.

          The Red Sox will have hired Ausmus or Wallach, will have a manager in place and Farrell will have no where to land.

          Honestly… think about it for a second. If the Red Sox don’t give Toronto what they want and say “we have all these others guys we’re happy with”, it’s very, very easy for Toronto to say “OK, fine, see ya”. Boston doesn’t get the guy they’ve been lusting over for the last 2 years and the Jays can do what they like with Farrell. Period, end of story.

          Waiting a week and a half does absolutely nothing to change leverage, in my mind.

        • @ Oakville

          If media literacy were a high school course, you’d be a fucking remedial student.

          How you continually lap up everything the Boston media spits out continues to illustrate your stupidity.

          But please continue to spend money on the Blue Jays and tell your equally moronic circle to do the same.

    • Beeston and AA have stabilized the franchise,rid the Jays of the Wells and Rios contracts saving millions,taken the farm system from 29th to top 5,increased attendance,increased tv viewership by 50%,changed the teams uniform and logo so it sells like hotcakes,

      Sorry, BEESTOn did ANY of that shit? Radar, I like you, but this is fucking retarded.

      Beeston DOES NOT DO E-MAIL. He had NOTHING TO DO with getting Rios and Wells off the books. Anthopolous does not need permission from anyone to put them on waivers, because he can always say “fine, just have him” and he saves money. Ownership would let AA run a 1 million dollar payroll if he could. You are literally an insane person if you think Beeston negotiated the Wells-to-CA deal. Beeston was the guy pushing to extend him in the first place.

      that MLB had to change the rules and he has everybody talking about the Jays.

      This was Anthopolous. NOT Beeston. Here is how I know, even though it’s obvious: It’s not Beeston’s job to do that, and he lacks the frigging wit. Plus, this only started happening once AA was hired.

      Maybe ICJ would like Godfrey back? Doesn’t make a lot of sense.

      I am the only person, besides Fullmer_Fan, who DOES make sense when it comes to Beeston and I have for years. Right Radar, those are the two choices. The shit-ass we have now or Godfrey. There isn’t anyone else on the face of the planet who can do nothing as well as Beeston can. Oh, the timbre of his chortling when he farts out, “Well, we won’t spend less!” when talking about 2013. Irreplaceable. The Ming Dynasty vase of shitty baseball management. Christ.

      I’ll say it and the rest of you can quote me if it’s proven to not be true: the Toronto Blue Jays will not make the playoffs as long as they employ Paul Beeston.

  49. Same shit, different year. Toronto is a joke. All franchises.

  50. Am I the only one who doesn’t think there’s actually much going on between the Jays and Sox regarding Farrell? Something I know I’ve forgotten about, but if it’s the Jays’ policy not to let any of the info out regarding trades, why so many reports about this particular case?

    Doesn’t make sense.

    • Boston papers reporting that Farrell wants to come back to Boston.

      Where did that info come from? Farrell?? Farrell’s friends???

      Why did this news about Farrell not wanting Visquel on the roster now?

      Who’s idea was it to get Visquel?? AA??

      What’s next??

      If Davidi is correct that the coaching staff including Butterfield wants to go to Boston, then that is a big blow to the Jays.

  51. Mangers and GMs not seeing eye to eye on stuff happens everywhere, it’s just that for this instance, it fits the narrative. That said, can’t recall a season like this in a while, if ever. The next thing always seems to top the last. Injuries, Escobar, Farrell. Come on, good karma – throw us a bone.

    • Hopefully, Bautista doesn’t ask for a trade t a contender??

      What if Ortiz invites him to come to the Jays?

      If Farrell leaves, & AA can’t find a competent replacement, will this give AA another excuse not to compete in 2013, because of distraction for another manager???

      • Cue the angry reply from Stoeten in 3…2…1… :)))

      • For fuck sakes Oakville, you’re workin yourself into a frenzy.Bautista can’t demand a trade, he’s under contract.
        Ortiz invites him to come to the Jays?
        What in fuck are you talking about?
        Take a breath,go for a walk then come back and make some sort of sense.

        • Just for the record Radar everyone (almost) who demands a trade is under contract… hence the demand part.

          • Semantics,semantics.
            Sure Jbau can request,moan,whine but the Jays aren’t under any pressure to accomodate the request ala Halladay.

        • @RADAR. Players can ask for trades but AA doesn’t have to accomodate it.

          Halladay made it clear he would not resign an extension with the Jays after one more year left on his contract.

          Would the Jays want an angry Bautista on their team???

          As for Ortiz inviting him to the Red Sox, the Jays are behaving like such patsies , I wouldn’t be shocked if they gave him up for a prospect.

          What the Red Sox are doing is completely unacceptable.

          Yet I don’t see Bud Selig interfering because it helps the red sox.

          Could AA get away with going after Maddon,Sciosa, Jim Leyland etc????

          • How is it unacceptable? The Jays can stop it any time they want– just as they did last year. Farrell could stop it any time he wants, too, though he’d lose a lot of leverage to get himself a better deal, either here or there.

          • @Oakville

            So now you have convinced yourself that Ortiz will ask Bautista to come join the Red Sox and all it will take is a prospect.


            The Book of Morons should not be restricted to journallists. It’s time to donate an issue to Oakville.

  52. Zach Stewart, come on down!

  53. Buster Olney on ESPN Sportscenter:

    Toronto now realizes it’s a fait accompli because Farrell will eventually go to Red Sox next year anyways. Expects Farrell to become the new manager and it will cost Boston a “midlevel prospect.”

    • fuck it. if I’m AA I say “ok no more negotiations….give us Bard or you wait a year to get Farrell”

      then take the next year to find a manager. there is more value in keeping JF and NOT having to conduct our own manager search as well simply fucking with the Red Sox then in any mid level prospect we might get.

      • Is “fait accompli” the phrase of the day or something?

      • @ Rob A.


        AA would look like a clown letting himself get bullied by the red sox.

        So last year he asked for Clay Buckholz, now he gets another mid level prospect.

        Make farrell wait a year & pout. If farrell bombed next year then red sox nation would sour on him .

    • “Toronto now realizes it’s a fait accompli because Farrell will eventually go to Red Sox next year anyways.”

      So who manages the Red Sox this year? I’m sure Ausmus, Hale Wallach et al. are dying to take a one year managing job.

  54. I believe Farrell is gone whether to the Sux or to an unemployment line. And so he should be. He didn’t seem to understand the importance of expressing loyalty to his club last off-season and he sure hasn’t made himself hard to get rid of this season. I think AA will look at these last two years with a very bad taste in his mouth because he hired the wrong guy. I think it’s very possible he has already determined Farrell’s successor. And I feel sincerely sorry for guys like Brad Ausmus and the others who went up to Boston for ‘interviews’ knowing they were just window-dressing while the Sux continued to tamper with our staff. If Farrell takes the coaches, then we will look for better coaches. This disgusting episode needs to end and soon so we can clean him off our shoes and move forward.

    • +1000 agree.

      The Boston ‘managerial interviews’ just seems like a cute dog & pony show. A charade to give the illusion that “Hey, we’ve got options!”. It’s bullshit & a waste of time for those candidates. Those creepy mouth breathers from Boston have been lusting for Farrell since the day he arrived in Toronto. It’s pretty fucking apparent that he’s always been their guy & hopefully A.A. & Beeston see right through this comedic ‘managerial search’.

    • To be absolutely fair, when all this crap happened last year Farrell’s son was in the hospital at the time with serious problems so he was in no mood to express loyalty. He did say he was very busy preparing for the 2012 season though.

      • One wonders how Farrell’s son is doing healthwise. If I recall, he had to undergo a series of surgeries and treatment in Boston. This alone could be a strong motivating factor for Farrell.

      • +1. Good point Sagan. That was a tough time for him.

        Does anyone think that Farrell called the red sox in early October & tell them that he wants to come back to Boston???

        The Jays look like patsies. Would the MLB ever let AA chase after Giradi or Scosia or Maddon???

        No way. The ninja has no clothes.

        • FFS do you just agree with what everyone else says? that was a retarded comment from carl sagan. why the hell does the health of his son have anything to do with him expressing loyalty or not? well, my son is sick so I cant say that i like/want to be the manager of the Jays going forward. wtf is that ever stupid.

          • @ yeah

            If Farrel’s son is still sick and requires more surgery or follow up medical treatment in Boston, then that could influence his decision to return to Boston for family reasons.

            In fact, that would be a rational reason to go back to Boston.

            It has nothing to do with loyalty to the Jays or Red Sox, it’s that the medical care for his son can only be provided in Boston.

          • Yeah…stupid

    • @Karen.

      AA spent a year looking for a manager & made what appeared to be a quality choice in Farrell.

      Farrell’s first year was a learning curve.

      Last season he had injuries, & AA did not provide enough starting pitching to help him out & he gave him some more relievers.

      If Farrell brings Butter with him, who was a loyal jays employee, then perhaps everyone is fed up with Rogers.


  56. Totally agree with this. Somebody up thread (or it could been a day or so ago) mentioned tampering and I really don’t see how what the Sox are doing is anything but tampering. Farrell is under contract to the Jays for one more year. And from that perspective the Jays should be calling the shots.

    Personally I haven’t overly impressed with Farrell from the get go. I had hoped he would have better pitcher/bull pen management than Cito but that hasn’t been evident to me (and this apples to 2011 as well as 2012 which would have tested the patience of Job).

    I just hope it ends soon and AA can hire a manager that WANTS to manage the Jays and bring out the best of the players. There’s a lot of talent on that team.

    It’s a sunny day and I’m hitting the road on the two wheeler.

  57. Anyone know offhand if Tim Wallach and AA were in Montreal at the same time? I’d be ok with him too.

    • Baseball reference lists 1992 as his last active season with Montreal. AA would have been in his mid-teens at that point?

    • Ok nevermind…Wallach played til 1996 and AA started with the Expos in 2000.

    • @Sagan

      “It’s not out of the realm that AA would have prepared for the possibility that Boston would play that card. If I were AA I’d go to Farrell before compensation talks started and say “Boston wants you and we want you. If it’s ok with you I’m going to see what they’re offering. If I’m not happy, I’ll come back and extend you for 2 more years with a nice pay raise.”

      Now that would a NINJA move by AA. It would burn Red Sox Nation who would start tearing down Fenway park.

      Tim Wallach was a Expos star 3B during the 1980′s. AA was born in 1978 or 1979, so he would have grown up watching “ELI” which was Wallach’s nickname. I think AA did ask for permission to talk to Wallach when he was looking for Farrell but was rejected by the Dodgers.

  58. Farrell for bard hire someone as manager, focus on pitching problem AA!

  59. Cafardo is a clown. Praising the Sox negotiating strategy by “waiting” and thus drawing Toronto into a place where they feel like they HAVE to trade JF and Toronto loses leverage. in fact it’s the opposite. him and the rest of the blowhard Boston media have already crowned JF the next manager. the pressure is now on Cherington to deliver. If talks break down today, it’s BC that has egg on his face not AA. in fact it’s a a PR win for AA. he’ll look like the hardline negotiator who refused to take anything less then full value for what he deems assets. he can hardly be blamed for refusing to accept a devaluation of his assets just because “big bad Boston” should always get what it wants. IMO he looks much worse if it appears he just rolls over and gives away an asset to Boston for a song.

    if AA doesn’t get what he wants, he merely says “ok, were more then happy with JF this year” (which I think is he truth anyways) and then saves himself another time consuming managerial search while sticking it a division rival. those two things alone are worth far more then a middling prospect.

    the fact is, if Toronto actually just wanted JF gone, he would’ve been gone by now. my guess is, these “negotiations” are probably not very back and forth. its probably just AA saying “here is what we want, period” and then sitting back and waiting until the Sox agree to give it to him. And the media is helping AA with every “I can’t see how this won’t get done” tweet they put out.

    • +1. That would be a brilliant strtegy by AA. Buckholz or bust for AA

      But why is Wilner now changed his tune & willing to accept Bard for Farrell?

      Why is Shi Davidi warning that Butterfield may be going to Boston.?

      Butterfield is a long time Jays coach not attached to farrell.

      That seems to hurt the Jays.

  60. If Farrell’s son was being treated permanently in Boston and he wanted to go there I would expect him to have a quiet chat with his GM who would have a quiet chat with Boston to work out something quietly and then when they had finished being quiet they would have made the announcent. Most people would understand. But this has not been even slightly quiet. So I am not gonna cut Farrell any slack at all.

    Oakville, I trust you can now tell me from Karen?

    Karen, I hope you don’t consider this ‘something stupid’.

    • @ Isabella.

      That’s true. If Farrell had to go to Boston for family reasons, I would have no problem with that.

      I remember a few years ago when Scott Rolen asked to be traded back to the mid west.

      He did it quietly for family related reasons. His parents were tired of coming up to Oakville. Health issues etc…

      Rolen lived one street over from me in River Oaks, so I always saw his driveway filled with pickup trucks from Indiana

    • i wasn’t referring to your post, I had no idea what he was referring to.

      • @Karen

        It’s ok. I wasn’t trying to pick a fight! You were Oakville’s collateral damage because he can’t tell women apart!

        • LOL.

          There are only 2 women who post here regularly.

          Isabella is the former season ticket holder & Karen is Radar’s nurse:))

  61. I wish I was a billionaire. I’d but the Jays from Rogers. I’d also but Rogers and force it to merge with Verizon or AT&T or Time Warner in the States. I wish we had a Big Stein or a rich man as our 1 and ONLY owner. None of this multiple people corporate bullshit. I want my sugar daddy as a Jays fan!

    • If ever a post screamed out for immediate corrections, your sad desire to ‘but’ everything in sight would be the exemplar.

    • ” I’d also but Rogers and force it to merge with Verizon or AT&T or Time Warner in the States.”

      I bet the CRTC would love that.

  62. RE the Elliot article about Farrell wanting to release Vizquel in July and AA not allowing it…

    If that’s true, and Farrell wanted to dump Vizquel, that may explain Vizquel’s comments about the clubhouse having no leadership. It kind of seemed like a personal attack on the manager. Maybe he was aware that Farrell wanted to cut him.

  63. According to mlbtr Farrell is now a Bosox. Boo.

  64. So Brunt was pretty much bang fucking on.

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