Yes, it’s more insufferable fucking John Farrell talk. But thankfully the saga may finally be nearing its conclusion, seeing as Bud Selig does not care for major announcements being made during the World Series– which begins Wendesday– so a lot of folks seem to believe that it’s in the interest of both the Jays and the Red Sox to resolve this whole John Farrell mess– or, potentially, and far, far worse, the John Farrell plus two thirds of the damn coaching staff mess.

Joe McDonald and Gordon Edes of ESPN Boston have spoken to a source who say that the Red Sox have asked the Jays for permission to speak to Farrell himself, ostensibly about a contract.

“The source guessed it would take a player or players of ‘substantial value’ for the Jays to allow Farrell to go to a division rival,” they add, “though the source did not have direct knowledge of the negotiations, which are taking place on multiple levels of each organization.”

Dr. Rosen Rosen writes at Fox Sports that “discussions between the Blue Jays and Red Sox about that compensation are reaching an advanced stage.”

He also has a source that echoes what we heard from Jon Heyman yesterday at CBS, who was told by a source that the Jays’ people “would charter a jet to get him out.”

“There’s no question it gets done in my mind,” a rival executive told Rosenthal. “Toronto doesn’t want him there anymore.”

In the Toronto Sun, Bob Elliott gives us the juiciest, most frustrating insight into why that might be, as he suggests disagreements between Farrell and Alex Anthopoulos over the course of the season.

“Farrell wanted to release backup infielder Omar Vizquel in July, but the GM did not want to cut loose a future Hall of Famer, according to someone familiar with Jays management,” he writes. “And the manager was not pleased at the July 31 trade deadline that the Jays added relief help rather than dealing prospects for starting pitching.”

Elliott’s source notes that it isn’t exactly unusual for a GM and manager to not quite see eye-to-eye, seeming suggesting that those problems would to be far too trivial to have caused such a major rift over the last 12 months. However, the Vizquel thing may be bigger than that reading gives it credit for.

Vizquel went to the media to bristle at his– fucking righfully– diminishing role, then not long after found Farrell shoehorning him into a game he had absolutely no business being a part of. Farrell had Vizquel pinch hit for JP Arencibia with runners on first and third and one out in the top of the ninth in a tie game with Oakland, asking him to fucking bunt because of his superior bat control, or some such nonsense. Vizquel couldn’t even fucking do that, and though Kelly Johnson (back during the few weeks when he was good) cleaned up the mess with a two-out single, Francisco Cordero gave up the tying run in the bottom of the ninth, before loading them up meatballing a pitch to Brandon Inge, who won it with a walk-off, gut-punch grand slam.

Farrell, rightly, was skewered for his disasterfuck of decision-making, but one wonders if there was some resentment for being pressured by Omar’s comments into using him, which could have snowballed as Vizquel’s victory lap continued throughout the summer, and as the club’s “veteran leader” failed to prevent the embarrassing Escobar episode, then had the fucking audacity to throw Farrell and the coaching staff under the bus on matters of discipline.

It’s 100% speculation on my part, and surely there’d have to be more to a genuine rift than that, but I know I’d be pretty pissed off, too, to have to endure what Vizquel did in terms of submarining my livelihood, both outwardly in the damn media and through dereliction of duty as the mentor of the young Latino infielders, knowing that I’d been arguing to rid myself of this waste of a roster spot, and that I’d been rebuffed because of some bullshit about not cutting a Hall of Famer from a club that dicked around Vlad Guerrero for half the summer.

And though I understand the calculation on the part of the front office, to set him up to fail by not acquiring starting pitching at the deadline, while reportedly not being interested in extending his contract

In other words… perhaps it’s not all that trivial. And maybe Farrell’s totally not wrong there.

Of course, we have nothing resembling any idea, at this point. On anything here, frankly.

Neither, it turns out, do any of the Jays coaches, who all remain in limbo. Elliott writes:

Hitting coach Dwayne Murphy, pitching coach, Bruce Walton, first base coach Torey Lovullo, third base coach Brian Butterfield, bench coach Don Wakamatsu, bullpen coach Pete Walker and coach Luis Rivera are all on one-year contracts.

If Farrell is dealt do they keep their jobs?

“I haven’t heard anything,” said another coach.

Ugh.

This whole thing just really isn’t good for anybody until it gets resolved, so hopefully it’s coming, one way or the other– and, let’s be serious, it sure looks like there’s a singular direction it’s heading, and that Alex Anthopoulos is very slowly being backed into a corner here. Given the tasks that lie ahead this winter, it’s a position he’d best get used to being in.

Again: ugh.

Comments (202)

  1. Quite the predicament here. On one hand, we should lovingly suckle AA’s balls if he can manage to turn Farrell into a real asset and replace him with a better manager (Acta?). On the flip side, if a rift was created because of AA’s stun-fuckingly moronic support of Vizquel, well then he should be on the next Stratos, without a parachute.

  2. I don’t really see how AA is in a corner, Stoeten.

    Like he HAS to make a deal at this point? We don’t REALLY know how AA feels about Farrell. In that same article you cite above a source tells Elliot that the relationship between AA and Farrell is not beyond repair. We don’t know that Farrell can’t be brought back, or what arrangement Farrell and AA have regarding these talks.

    Also, the Jays can just wait until the Sox hire someone else and then fire Farrell, if they don’t want him back and the Sox offer garbage.

    • I was just thinking that too. If the sox offer only trash then is wait til they hire ausmus or whatever, wait 2 weeks and fucking fire Farrell. That way everybody gets fucked and I can be happy.

      • Honestly…its hard to call a Vizquel useless if he didn’t play. And really he didnt play. Dude was our Rance Mulliniks

      • Agreed again, I wouldn’t assume AA is backed into a corner. I don’t buy into this big rift thing, but for all we know AA has cooled on Farrell and this Boston gives him a good cover to change manager without having to fire him. And who knows, maybe he already has his sights on a new manager. Sure, this whole thing could be a clusterfuck, or maybe AA’s got it all under control, as it’s not like this Farrell-to-Boston stuff comes as a surprise, as it’s been in the air ever since Valentine went on deathwatch.

    • Rogers is painted into a corner if they want to compete in 2012 but the fall guy is AA.

      Losing a manager & half his coaching staff will make a mess & be very distracting for the team.

      The Rogers apologists will be happy because they can argue that the Jays can’t compete in 2013 due to this distraction.

      • How so?

      • Oh wait, I didn’t read to the end, didn’t see that you’re a fucking idiot. My bad.

        • hilarious

        • LOL!. Gee Stoeten, yesterday you highlighted the fact that the Jays have to spend in 2013 because they were painted into a corner after the disastrous 2012.

          You brought up Brunt’s interview with Mccowan.

          Today, you forget about that.

          AA can only do so much with whatever Rogers gives him.
          Base on his recent interviews, he seems unclear what happens after he talks to Beeston.

          You know very well that if the Jays bring if another rookie manager who has to build a new coaching staff will be given a “pass” by the fans if he doesn’t manage properly.

          Beeston talks to Pelley or Nadir Mohammed to get approval for any spending in excess of the secret budget amount.

      • My favourite kind of Rogers apologists are the guys who are dumb enough to buy season tickets and think they are owed something for all their money.

        Those idiots are the best!

  3. Question. Is this the least likable Jays’ team ever? I think it might be. Top to bottom, front office, players, whoever – I am having trouble defending my fandom right now. Can’t find a single thing to like or appreciate about this team.

    • Nahh. Even after this awful year, I think the young stars of the team are still liked far more than we’ve seen in the past. Or at least since the 90s I’d say. Guys like Lawrie and JPA.

      Think back to the last year of Riccardi in 09. Bad team. Old, overpaid. JP said at the end of the year that the Jays will basically never make the playoffs again because they’re in the AL East. Then they fired him, hired an unknown and traded Halladay. That was far, far worse and only a couple years ago.

      • My favourite Jays teams in recent history (since the lockout):

        #1 – 1998
        Fucking Delgado and Shawn Green destroying the place! Shannon Stewart! Jose Cruz! Jose Fucking Canseco hitting 46 HR! Roger Clemens doing his thing, and by his thing I mean roids and winning Cy Youngs. Roy Halladay’s incredible first career start. First year without Cito! Finished with 88 wins. This year was fucking awesome!

        #2 – 2006
        The offense was incredible, and the top 3 starters (Halladay, AJ, and Lilly) being great. Plus the drama was fun! Still had 87 wins and finished 2nd in the East.

        #3 – 2007
        The promise of the young pitchers. McGowan, Marcum, and Litsch stormed onto the scene to go with AJ and Halladay. The back end of the bullpen was automatic to shutdown games with Downs, Janssen, and Accardo. The lineup went to the shitter after a great year the year before, but Frank Thomas and Matt Stairs were fun! This team underachieved though, only got 83 wins.

    • Jose? Edwing? B. Morrow? Lots to like, and lots of exciting and talented youth on the way.

      • Sorry, Jose, I love you dude, but the guy spent most of the season in Florida, collecting a fat paycheck while doing exactly zero to help – even the occasional fan service in front of a reporter would have been useful when things started to go bad. And the youth thing – I was excited about that too until I saw lots of undisciplined stupidity everywhere. My kids are cute too but when there’s no grown-up in charge? They are less cute. Someone needs to get Joe Maddon or someone on the phone and figure out how to channel all this youthful exuberance into something that fans can get behind.

        • Ummm, I think what he was doing in Florida is called rehabbing an injury. He made statements a couple of times toward the end of the season, starting with the maricon incident. I have no beef with Jose other than his insistence on doing the Home Run Derby. It fucks him up every year.

          • +1 … so very true … and it was almost embarrassing to watch the contrast with Fielder who was having a blast and Jose, way too serious and getting tighter as it went.

        • Yeah, Bautista hit 27 HR in just 92 games with a .886 OPS. Completely nothing.

    • No Steph, you have just been reading too much DJF trash…remember believe half of everything you read here, devide by 10 and subtract 4 and that is the percentage of truth you have

      • Actually this site helps keep me from jumping off the fan bridge, honestly. I realize I sound like an idiot Jays talk caller but even the perspective I can usually find here isn’t having much impact anymore. THINGS ARE BLEAK, yo. Hoping for some kind of AA ninja miracle but starting to lose faith.

        • Honestly, I wish you would jump off the fan bridge. Really? You come here to spout off about the fact that you can’t find anything likeable about the team?

          Get the hell out then. Jesus you people have entitlement issues.

          • You are natural born dink, Frito Bandicko.

            The team does suck, and by the looks of it, management is is sucking at communication between the front office and the bench. This is a big fuckstorm, and a high pressure ridge of fuckery is brewing over southwestern Ontario.

            But you seem like the type of guy who enjoys taking a stroll in the rain of diahrea.

            Affectionatley Yours,

            The Bastard Son

          • Frito, the guy claims he’s an idiot, and he’s ready to jump…I Don’t think that conucilling is your calling

          • It may be true that I have entitlement issues (to what, exactly?). But you seem to have anger issues. I am sorry for criticizing your favourite team. I love them too, really. Just not liking them that much right now. Don’t see why that upsets you so much, but ok.

        • And one cannot understate how this fuckstorm is going to make AA’s job harder to attract quality free agents.

          Oh, nevermind. Its not like Rogers was going to give AA the green light on anyone.

          Jesus, even Darren Oliver has had enough. Dude wants to kiss away $3.5M big ones to fucking retire.

          • There you go.

            This organization is making itself kind of like that highschool that no one wants to send their kids to.

            If you sign a fucking guy to be your manager stick with him. Stand up and fight for him, show dignity in your decision and to that person. Because if you dont, it sends the message to other managers and players that Toronto doesnt give a fuck about you if things arent always going well.

            That my Drunk Jays Brotha’s, is a recipe for a nice warm front of freezing piss and squalls of intermittent shit sleet.

      • I assume you are referring to the comments, in which case you’re probably being generous.

    • Not even Bautista, Morrow, Encarnacion, Arencibia/D’Arnaud, the Lansing 3, AAA team in Buffalo? Not a single thing?

      • here is one I liked. Phil Hughes sailing along until Gose gets on base and starts disturbing him; bam Lawrie … 2x in one game … that’s one of those Mastercard priceless moments … can’t wait for THAT to be the Jay’s signature. It also comes with a multiplier … gets in pitchers’ heads … they’re going to do that thing, oh, oh, they’re doing that thing even when they’re not.

    • Or is it that social media has enabled this team to be put under much more scrutiny than any team in the past.? It’s pretty naive to think that, in past seasons, we have been privy to internal business, good and bad.
      The amount of coverage and speculation would lead one to believe that the Farrell drama is the biggest story to ever come out of the organization.

      • +1. Karen.

        I think twitter rumors are driving everyone nuts.

        Farrellgate is another blackeye for the team.

        There are some comments on bluejays message board regarding Farrell’s son who had serious medical issues & was being treated in Boston hospitals.

        If these issues are ongoing wouldn’t it make sense for Farrell to return to Boston to be closer to his son.??

        A good reporter would find out discreetly if this is still an issue.

        If so it would allow Farrell to make an honorable exit from Toronto for family reasons.

    • I don’t think this year’s team comes close to July/August 2006 with the Hillenbrand ‘sinking ship’ thing and Ted Lilly blowing an 8 run 3rd inning lead and then whining about being pulled (I was at that crazy game). Both incidents causing actual physical fights between Gibbons and his players.

      That’s bad enough already without thinking about Towers’ and Chacin’s luck coming to an end.

      • *sigh* I still have a bottle of Chacin aftershave.

      • I actually kind of loved that 06 team. I think that might have been the best Jays team in terms talent since the early 90s. Halladay, AJ, Ted Lilly. Killer seasons from Reed, Frank Catalonotto, Wells and Glaus. BJ was unhittable.

        The back end of their rotation absolutely killed them that year.

        • yeah I loved the 06 team, probably the most enjjoyable Jays season I can remember. 05 was awful though, I think that was when they had those awful grey hats.

    • … i thought Ace was decent this year

  4. Well written Andrew, I feel we are all being taken on a ride as the ” Skydome ” is a long term real estate play for Rogers. They will look like champs to their stockholders, when the sell the team to some sucker who wants to build a new stadium. Labatts pulled the carpet out on the fans. It may very well happen again and Rogers will keep the content at a cheap price for decades. I do love your passion along with AA’s. Lets hope he pulls a few rabbitts out of his hat for us chumps.

    • Not sure how you think Labatts pulled the carpet out on the fans, if anyone it was fucking Onex and their LBO crew that put Labatt’s into play with their hostile takeover in 1995. That sounded the death knell of Labatt’s ownership right then and there. There’s no doubt that Onex would have broken Labatt’s up and sold off the other non-brewery assets on their own if they had been successful. That’s what firms like Onex do.

      Interbrew only came in as a white knight at Labatt’s urging. At least they held onto the Jays for 5 more years.

      • Ya, you can’t blame Labatts. They were the best owners the Jays have had and things only changed because they got swallowed up. It was good while it lasted.

  5. When the Blue Jays were looking for a manager before Farrell was hired, I was on the Dave Martinez bandwagon. If we can get a good player for Farrell… I say let him go and get Martinez before it’s too late and another team takes him.

  6. Let me preface what follows with an acknowledgment that this has no basis in reality. If AA wants to fuck everyone over he should hire a new manager, replace his coaching staff, and keep Farrell, but demote him to Buffalo for the year.

    Fuck you Bosox, fuck you Farrell.

    • Shuffle off to Buffalo, John. Thinking outside the box.

      • Speaking of outside the box (the Getting Blanked one that is), which thread are you posting the Playoff Threat in tonight Mr Potatoeten?

        • No game tonight my friend. Do your laundry or something.

          • I just realized that in the absence of our fearless leader one SP posts the weekend game threats and line ups. Man do I feel like a heel right about now.

            Alas we are baseball less for this evening but on the morrow we’ll have happy panda and his crew.

          • Scary… It feels like Sunday.

          • Hey GSMC have you started running again? I took a week off after my last half and it felt great.

          • I ran on Wednesday, Friday and this morning. The legs are feeling loose again. I’m taking tomorrow off, though. I felt pretty tired and spacy by midday. Too hard of a workout this morning.

            I’m going to run the Downsview 1/2 on Remembrance Day. I decided to pull the chute on 2 marathons in 3 weeks.

          • @GSMC good idea about not running 2 in 3 weeks. Fall is great running weather though. Are you missing the Sunday morning long training runs?

          • Smart move to not run two fulls in three weeks especially if you’re aiming for Boston and not doing it for fun.

            Fall is my favourite time of year for running and cycling.

          • @DD Boston is at capacity for 2013. That kinda sucks for people who registered and trained for fall a marathon, in hopes of qualifying for Boston next year.

        • Once I realized that Boston was full, I decided to hold off on another marathon until the Goodlife marathon in May. Going forward, I’ll do my qualifiers in the spring, although I find it hard to train in the winter.

          I’m not going to miss my long run tomorrow. That’s 3 extra hours of sleep. That said, the weather has been great, rain notwithstanding, for running.

          • Does Stoeten realize what a great baseball themed chat room he has set up?

          • I’m not training for anything at the moment. Just maintaining fitness. I’m holding steady at 15k for long runs. I’m still wavering about a spring marathon and may just train for Around the Bay and do a fall marathon instead. I would like to do either Chicago or Philly.

            I’ll be getting up at the crack of dawn to run tomorrow.

            If you’re looking for a spring marathon Ottawa is nice. The course is quite scenic and fairly flat.

            • I’ve got a friend running in Philly in a few weeks. He’s pretty pumped for it.

              I like Ottawa; I’ve done a couple of 10ks on race weekend. It can get really hot that weekend. The lad 10k I ran there, a guy died on the course.

              I may do the Around the Bay this year. I haven’t done it before, but I hear it’s a nice course.

          • It discombobulates him no end.

          • I did ATB in 2008. I do the race weekend half every year. This year it was nasty humid, last year it rained and I got a chill.

            When I go to Toronto for Blue Jays baseball I try to squeeze in a race of some sort as well. I did the Midsummer\s night run this year and really liked it. Highly recommend that one.

          • I ran the 30. The weather was great for that race. First time I’ve done Midsummer Night’s, but not the last. The beer “tent” was pretty sweet too.

          • I did the 15 and the weather and beer tent were great. Unfortunately the Jays are on the road for next year’s race but I’ll probably do it anyway.

            I hope your friend has a great time and a great race in Philly.

          • Thanks! Enjoy your long run tomorrow. I hope the weather holds up.

          • I did around the bay a few years ago, and dislocated my knee cap. Love the grim reaper at the top of the final big hill. That is a wicked race, just as difficult as a marathon.
            I’ve ran Ottawa several times, it’s a great weekend. Makes Toronto look pathetic as far as race support.

  7. “It’s 100% speculation on my part, and surely there’d have to be more to a genuine rift than that, but I know I’d be pretty pissed off, too, to have to endure what Vizquel did in terms of submarining my livelihood, both outwardly in the damn media and through dereliction of duty as the mentor of the young Latino infielders, knowing that I’d been arguing to rid myself of this waste of a roster spot, and that I’d been rebuffed because of some bullshit about not cutting a Hall of Famer from a club that dicked around Vlad Guerrero for half the summer.”

    Glad to see someone else echo my personal viewpoint that what Vizquel did was high douchebaggery. It also explains to a certain extent why AA didn’t get cut his tired old useless ass when he wen to the media in the first place. If I had been a GM he would have been gone as soon as I read his comments. It made the club look bad and it made Farrell look bad. If Vizquel knew that Farrell wanted him gone then Vizquel’s comments have to be even more suspect imo.

    Just looking at this one incident in particular you could probably see from Farrell’s viewpoint why he’d have every right to be furious with AA regarding Vizquel. First he didn’t want him there but had to have him anyway. Then he goes to the media and spouts some shit about Farrell in public. I’m sure when that happened all Farrell could do was say “I told you so”.

    Again we still don’t know if this is all much ado about nothing considering AA’s comments regarding Farrell managing next year but it would certainly explain the rumours of discord between the two.

    The sad thing is even though AA’s got the right to set the roster, Farrell certainly wasn’t wrong in wanting to dump Vizquel.

    As a fan you have to wonder if someone like Vizquel wasn’t one of the guys stirring shit up in the clubhouse all along because he wasn’t getting a lot of playing time.

    • I hope AA replaces Farrell with Vizquel as Manager

    • The whole Vizquel story now coming to light is really dirty laundry that I would rather not know about. Firstly they should have all kept their mouths shut..

      However if Farrell decided to pinch hit Vizquel for JPA to show up his manager with “Here’s your guy Vizquel – look how useless he is”, then he’s the biggest ass of the bunch. Let’s lose a game for a principal. Let’s piss off the regular ballplayers for a bench guy on his victory lap. Just keep him on the bench. What do you think Cito would have done?

  8. When the fuck did this turn into the Boston collapse? How did the final 2 months of a clear DEVELOPMENT year become an excuse for the fanbase to turn into a bunch of fucking idiots?

    This overanalysis of Vizquel, Cordero and other role players barely makes a difference compared to, oh, I don’t know the $150 MILLION OF SURPLUS VALUE created by dumping Wells and extending Bautista.

    And let’s not act like that is the only stroke of genius that we have witnessed from our lord and saviour Alex Anthopolous.

    2 brilliant years and 1 so-so year of asset management should make us feel good about our primary decision maker.

    If he has to get a new manager, so what?

    A solid offseason of player acquisitions should put the Jays back into the 85-90 win conversation regardless of how dire it may seem right now.

    So calm the fuck down OAKVILLE!

    • I think Farrel has shown his value, if you can get something for that; I say do it. If the Jays don’t win at least 85 games next year, fire AA and Beeston.

      • You honestly feel that AA should be fired if the team isn’t a contender this year?

        You might as well make Nadir Mohammed the GM if those are your standards.

    • Agreed 110%.

      AA has done a great job to this point. Last year was underwhelming in every way but we really have been spoiled for the first 2 years.

      So far he’s:

      1) dumped the biggest albatross contract in the league
      2) extended arguably the top power hitter in the league at 50% of FMV. EE may end up on this list too with another great year.
      3) turned the farm system from one of the worst to one of the best
      4) stole a potential ace in a trade and extended him for well under FMV.

      Can’t think of another GM that’s pulled off moves like this in the past 3 years.

      Even the Escobar and Rasmus trades are still good ones from an asset perspective. All the Jays would have now in Rasmus’ place without that deal is Zach Stewart and Rzepczynski. And instead of Escobar it would be Pastornicky. Everything else they traded was going anyway.

      Hill for KJ seems like a rough trade on the surface…. But Hill’s option wasn’t going to be picked up anyway. At least now we know KJ isn’t the long term answer.

      Thames was useless and Delabar is useful.

      Only real issue for me is the way Snider was handled. He would have gotten optioned again this year and lost for nothing on waivers. Better they got something for him, but he could have been a more valuable asset if handled better in previous years.

      And I’m spent

      • It’s true. After that shit year, it’s easy to get overly pessimistic.

        What bad moves has AA made?

        Napoli for Franky Francisco. For sure.

        Snider for Lincoln? Certainly don’t love it at first blush, but we’re nowhere close to knowing how this will turn out.

        Hill for KJ? Not good in retrospect, but how could they have kept penciling Hill in here after the couple seasons he had?

        I’m not sure I can think of any others.

        If you can knock AA on anything, I think its definitely arguable that he hasn’t been as active as we would have liked. The 2012 Jays clearly needed more depth even when healthy.

        But based on the moves AA has made he has a really strong record to this point.

        • And Hill’s option wasn’t getting picked up anyway… So he would have left for nothing.

          KJ was supposed to be either a draft pick in compensation or an upgrade at 2b for 2012.

          Didn’t work out that way, but can’t fault the idea at all

        • Holy shit, have you people been drinking the AA koolaid. What mistakes? Maybe you people have forgotton the gm’s job is to win not to shuffle pieces and get value and save money and get picks.

          None of his moves have actually helped the team win games which is the goal in case you forgot.

          • “None of his moves have actually helped the team win games which is the goal in case you forgot”.

            Yes, because that has been the goal each and every year dipshit.

    • LOL!

      Rogers shut off the payroll $$$ to AA at the winter meetings .

      He ends up signing Visquel for 850K, why I will never know.

      Mccoy could have done better at half of the cost.

      Visquel the latino mentor doesn’t realize that writing Maricon on an eye patch wasn’t offensive.

      Also, Escobar was hogging the ball in the field this year which annoyed other players like kelly Johnson etc…

      The latino mentor was asleep at the switch.

      I would not describe AA’s two previous years at brilliant.

      Escobar 2012 has regressed from last year.

      Lawrie has regressed, although thi is more acceptable given his incredible first 40 games. the baserunning blunders and reckless play are not acceptable.

      Rasmus is erratic. Romero is a mess .

      Hopefully AA can focus on his offseason acquisitions after he cleans up the managerial mess

  9. Just have this crapfest end and focus on the teams needs not just on a fucking manager and whether he stays or goes

  10. Why did this season have to be such a disaster that other team’s disasters are pushing their way in.

    One lesson learned is that Omar Vizquel is as self-serving and toxic as Ozzie in Miami. How do you fuck up the fluff position he was hired to do for the club?

    Hall Of Fame my ass.

    • I’m certainly going to laugh at the first team that gives him a coaching job. Even more so if he ever gets a managerial job.

  11. Vizquel could have been shut down right quick if Farrell had had the backing of AA. Which I don’t think he did.

    Let’s look at what went on. The Sux tried to hire Farrell last season. At first AA seemed to be somewhat ok with allowing Farrell to interview. Or at least had no policy against it. But then a policy was instituted specifically to stop Farrell interviewing with Boston. Let’s call it Farrell’s Law. However by many accounts, Boston continued to try to get Farrell and entered some kind of trade negotiation with AA which went nowhere.

    So the Sux hired Bobby Valentine. Which was a total disaster from the beginning. By the middle of the season Boston media were speculating who would replace him when he was fired and his front office didn’t even make an attempt to defend him. So AA knew from then that the likelihood was that Boston would come after Farrell.

    Therefore what is going on now is unlikely to have been a surprise to our GM. Who has chosen his words very carefully when talking about his manager. We haven’t heard any ringing endorsements coming out of Blue Jay Way about Farrell.

    I believe that AA feels he made the wrong decision. He is redressing the situation. And I’m not a bit surprised that Sandy Alomar Jr was seen in TO last week. I do not think AA was backed into any corner here. I think he’s bargaining hard for a decent return on an asset whose value depends on its locality. He can either keep Farrell around as a lame-dog manager for a year or kick him out now or trade him. If Farrell takes the coaches with him, that would be sad. But, given the injuries and some of the bonehead on-field play, I don’t think it will be terminal. In any case, the team needs a shake-up.

    To sum up: my ninety-year-old Auntie Dora could have seen this coming for months. I doubt AA was blindsided and I don’t think he has been pushed into any corners.

    • If these reports are actually true I find it very interesting, or even perplexing actually, that AA didn’t side with Farrell. Vizquel was never going to be around after this year, his contributions to the team on the field were completely negligible and you could probably argue that he took a spot that Hechavarria could have had far sooner in the season especially considering the injury Johnson suffered early on. You have to wonder that if Johnson just shut it down and actually took time to recover instead of trying to play through it, his numbers wouldn’t have been as horrible this year.

      I don’t get the benefits of potentially alienating your manager of the foreseeable future over a nothing player, regardless if he is a potential HOF. It’s not like the guy is even a lock for the HOF for fucks sake.

    • I totally agree with you.

    • Make that I totally agree with Isabellaeyes.

    • Never thought of that but it makes sense that AA isn’t completely surprised by this.

      Farrell’s like a productive player a year from free agency. Do you get something for him now, extend him or wait and let him walk.

      The Jo-Jo Reyes experiment last year shows how much AA hates losing assets for nothing.

    • +1 … I’m certain this is the best kind of gravy for AA … everyone else talking a ton, creating major distractions … he has huge upper hand and can play this almost any way he wants to … Jay’s getting compensation, Sandy A and new coaches right after the W
      S; priceless. Or, whatever … this is FUN.

    • any pics of dora?

  12. The Jays of Our Lives.

  13. https://mobile.twitter.com/jtomase/status/259751982636617728

    sox hope to have a new manager by Wednesday

  14. These fucking anonymous sources in heymans and rosenthals articles are hurting the jays leverage. They could very well be leaks purposely coming from the red sox front office in order to lessen the jays bargaining power. If its known that the jays dont like farrell anyways, which I dont believe, then that could potentially hurt the compensation. I think the jays like farrell, but the red sox like him more.

    • I don’t see how that’s at all the case. the jays leverage in this case has nothing to do with public perception. the jays hold all the cards, period. If Boston tries to get cute and say “well, we know from the reports that you want him out anyways” AA just says “ok make us a final offer and you’ll see just how badly we want him out.”

      • +1. That would be awesome. I would want AA to give a big FU to the red sox & tel them to wait 1 year for Farrell if they are so desperate.

        AA could fight back against kenny ken & all those ESPN clowns.

        Jays can’t be a patsie organization.

  15. I really hope Dwayne “OBP is overrated” Murphy is shown the door. Getting on base matters, dammit!

    • I don’t think they show him the door.

      Jose Bautista and some of the other guys really like him. Don’t want to piss them off. Plus he isn’t all that bad, and has worked some wonders for some players like Jose and EE (though EE had some help in the off-season from Cano’s hitting coach). The Jays offense is still pretty decent.

      I hope they bring in a guy to act as more of a second hitting coach. Maybe something like what St. Louis does, where they have two hitting coaches (one for lefties and one for righties) or maybe they just bring up Chad Mottola to be a basecoach, but he also kinda acts as a second hitting coach and helps Murphy out and helps out guys who aren’t clicking with Murphy.

      • I think Mottola stays up here next season. That’s the impression I got anyway.

      • Agreed on Mottola.

        It seems from reports that they have very different approaches.

        Mottola’s work the count patient approach works for some people. Murphy’s go up trying to hack balls into the left field bleachers approach works for others. Or so my inside knowledge of the Jays clubhouse tells me.

        Disclaimer: Dexter does not currently or will not ever have inside knowledge of the clubhouse.

      • They’ve already come out and said they’re considering carrying Mottola + Murphy next season. (If the whole coaching staff doesn’t defect, obviously…)

      • I understood from something I read somewhere AA was considering it…M& M that is. Contrary though to what some may have thought, Murphy and Mottola get alomg fine and are in touch with each other on a regular basis.

  16. anyone remember when the Jays signed Vizquel this off season? I sure do, I remember waking up, looking at my MLBTR app on my phone and saying in a sleepy stupor, “what? Omar Vizquel?”. Then I fell back asleep just to wake up an hour later and during breakfast I remembered what I had read and sat there literally dumbfounded.

    There was ABSOLUTELY no reason for him to be signed.

  17. No way Farrell manages another game in Toronto.

  18. Stoeten, when and why did you join the hordes bleating about how AA *has* to make this-and-that dumb move or else…or else the fans will consider him a failure?

    • Never? I didn’t say that at all.

      I think it’s going to be very difficult to bring Farrell back at this point, after this circus, so Alex has few decent options than to get as much for him now as he can. None of that’s about public perception– it’s about having a working relationship knowing neither side really wants Farrell there, which I think is abundantly clear from the fact that the
      Jays haven’t put a stop to this nonsense, as the did last year.

  19. So The Greek Geek is supposed to be this prodigy of a GM. And he has shown flashes.

    Why the fuck can’t he convey the short/longterm plan to Farrell and communicate? Perhaps because AA is a bitchy little yesman to Rogers. Shit falls from the top. Evidently it has seeped into the bench.

    • Dumbest comment of the thread so far– and Oakville 69 has already been here! Impressive!

      • +1 Stoeten told us managers don’t affect the team so there won’t be any more posts about Citoball or Farrellball.

        Just joshing. The farrell soap opera is being covered very well by Stoeten

        The Saber guys have it all figured out.

        Of course, Bruce Springsteen said WAR was good for absolutely nothing, say it again:)))

  20. Well, here’s how we can sum up this situation, regardless whether Farrell is gone or not.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o

  21. Bring back Cito!!

  22. Its really great that the Jays have that new poloicy of not allowing manager to movre latterally to other teams. The Jays mean it when they say it and thats FINAL!

  23. And one more thing. Courtesy of the Boston media, everyone now knows that Farrell has one more year left on his contract. Which means if they don’t get him this year they will get him next year. If you’re Ausmus or Wallach or any of the others ‘interviewed’ for the position as Boston’s manager, do you take it? Knowing that you will have a year of being compared to the Prince In Exile. Knowing that at the end of the year you might be dumped so that the Prince could come Home. I think those guys have better options than that. So Boston need to make the Farrell deal happen or maybe be faced with a grade z manager for a year while they are rebuilding.

    Now who is pushed into a corner?

    • There’s absolutely no way Boston will hire a manager for one year, knowing they’ll hire Farrell a year later. That’s too dysfunctional even for them.

    • Good point Isabellareyes. Boston likely interviewed other candidates as part of the bargaining process with the Jays. Boston has wanted JF for two years. It’s common knowledge around baseball. TO has all the cards in this case no matter what people say. Boston’s front office simply want him and no one else and AA knows it, has known it and will extract a good package for JF.

    • +1 Isabella.

      I hate the red sox even more than ever. They are entitled a holes.

  24. Remember when that lady from boston or whever tweeted something about a rift between AA and Farrell….and then a whole mess of people here, and wilner as well, basically caller her loony toons?

    you think maybe ya’ll owe her an apology?

    seems as though she was right and you were wrong.

    in fact, nearly every “negative” type story that comes out regarding the jays, fancy panties wilner immediately tries to queef on the story and claim its bs..only it often isnt

    • “fancy panties wilner”
      lol

      • Wilner is hilarious with him shifting gears to accept that Bard would be acceptable compensation for Farrell.

        Bard is horrible.

        Watch Wilner come up with negative stories on farrell now if he goes back to the red sox.

  25. Im being swallowed by a media constrictor and I don’t like it very much.

  26. Ok, i found it..it was Jen Royle who tweeted something to that effect, and was then attacked by the likes of Wilner. only she was apparently right.

    • we KNOW that? Really? How?

      Oh yeah, It’s on the Internet … an I have to go meet my French model girlfriend. Arrrrroooo!

  27. So why on earth would Arizona trade a prospect FOR heath bell? what the fuck are they doing? they trade young to oakland for replacement level pennington and prospect cabrera, then deal cabrera for Bell?

    i dont get it.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8528926/arizona-diamondbacks-acquire-heath-bell-trade-chris-young-pair-deals

    • Escobar sure would look good in a d’backs uniform. Maybe we could get Hill back for him. Ha!

      • A bounce back season from Escobar is the Jays best option unless he is part of the price for a pitching package.

        • I’d package him up for Skaggs. Otherwise, I agree about seeing what he does next year. Perhaps Mottola can get him back on track. I would expect that he returns next year a little more grateful and chastened from the eye black incident. I bet Robbie Alomar could straighten him out!

  28. http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2012/10/1/3439882/farrell-anthopoulos-royle-and-source-irresponsible-journalism

    But it was that there were other issues with having just a throwaway Tweet. It wasn’t just the topic of the content.

  29. Not sure where the comment I just posted went to, but if it’s gone, FYI, I nailed the Royle shit: http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/10/01/tension-between-aa-and-farrell/

  30. Farrell is right, Blue JAys have not even tried, I mean without a doubt team is better tried the whole time Farrell has been here.

    Go watch Farrells press confrence when he first signed here, Rogers will spend money, I’ve been assured we will compete at a high level.

    He was lied to, see AA’s comments about payroll just a year later.

    • birddawg, your gig is being channelled, possibly even threatened. Defend yourself, sir.

    • +1. Maybe Farrell was upset that the Jays didn’t get qualified starters in 2012.

      If it does turn out that Farrell thought there would be money to compete in 2012 & beyond but AA couldn’t provide the $$$ then that will be sad.

      • “AA couldn’t provide the $$$”

        So now you expect AA to get a bank loan to upgrade the rotation?

        Do you know what G.M. even stands for?

  31. Holy.. this shit just won’t go away will it? As I see it…Farrell could have stopped all of this bullshit long ago by sayin straight up that he had no intention of Boston and was not going.So, get what you can for him and move on already. If they poach some coaches so be it. Theres plenty of capable managers and coaches available. I think the manager should bring in his own staff anyway. AA….get what you can out of the bastards and get down to the business that needs to be done.

  32. The most frustrating part of this for me is that the Blue Jays have somehow allowed themselves to be sucked in to the Red Sox vortex of dysfunction.

  33. I am looking forward to the post-Farrell AA newser to hear his comments. “I’d like to introduce our new manager Manny Acta…”

  34. Hey Stoeten,
    Do you guys have any plans to roll out an iPhone app for the site? The comments order gets screwed up on the iPhone, as I’m sure you have probably noticed when you’re commenting from the bar.
    Cheers!

  35. Stoeten. Forgive me for I have lost my mind, your right, let’s be robot fans with not emotion towards crap when it is dished at us loyal fans. Double A has played no part in hos managing meltdown ? If that were the case then he wild have went to the press to tell New England to fuck off and fish shrimp and leave his manager alone.

    I like the war comment Oakville. That shit is for people who also go to Star Trek conventions.

    • Sorry auto text misery on the new Samsung with the last post.

      I would also like to apologize for Stoetens unflappable self righteousness.

    • +1.

      You have to wonder what’s going on at 1 Blue Jays Way.

      AA”s silence on all issues is not well suited to the social media age.

      The Jays need a rapid response team to shoot down silly rumors.

      I do think human interaction is part of baseball & you can’t just put together a team of WAR + players & hope for the best.

      Watching what Maddon gets out of his Rays teams year after vs what Farrell & Cito did since 2008 is an eye opener.

  36. Deal’s done.

  37. See Ya JF! Let’s hope AA announces a new manager at the same time.

    https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/259855564945911808

    • Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out motherfucker.

      AA is pleased to announce his new manager: Sandy Alomar who will be joined by his ninja brother Roberto.

      SO who the fuck did we get in return for Farrell?

  38. My sources are telling me it’s Buck Martinez.

  39. Farrell is a Red Sox Done!

  40. Just confirmed

  41. John Farrell: See ya never, fuckface.

  42. Farrell will not be missed.

  43. I can’t wait to boo this mother fucker when the Sox come to town!

  44. also breaking…….Sabathias elbow tendon. to see Doc Andrews this week

  45. Ugh par for the course for the 2012 Toronto Blue Jays

  46. Certainly going to be interesting to read about all the different parts of the back story over the next few weeks once this pig is finally put to bed.

    Can’t wait to see how it’s spun.

  47. Im thinking if the compensation will be announced in a few days….it can’t be any good.

    Blue Jays…feeder town. First John Farrell, then Jose Bautista and Brian Butterfield, fuck.

    • Source: Player going from #RedSox to #BlueJays was a major leaguer in 2012.

      Sounds like we are going to find out soon who it is.

  48. Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

    Source: In John Farrell trade, it appears one player will go in *each* direction. So #RedSox will get a player from #BlueJays too.

    Well that leads me to believe that at least the player coming back from Boston should be reasonably substantial if we’re giving up a player as well.

  49. John Morsi:

    Source: In Farrell trade, appears a player will go in *each* direction. So Sox will get a player from Jays too.

  50. it’s over!

  51. We’re about to find out if AA is really a ninja. Based on how he handled Wells and Halladay, he gets the benefit of the doubt until the details come out. He has been masterful, so far, in handling nuclear waste to this point.

    I wasn’t a big Farrell fan, but I’m still pissed that Selig didn’t do anything to sanction what is an obvious case of tampering.

  52. Farrell and Adam Lind for…

  53. Please be Bard. Please be Bard.

    Sadness and disappointment if it’s utility IF shitbag Ciriaco.

  54. Quit hating Farrell fuckfaces.

    Hate the organization for being a bunch of cheap cunts and horrible at communications. The irony that Rogers is a tel com company………..with seas of cash.

    Fuck you Rogers!!!!!! Fuck you for what you have done to this organization!!!

    Fuck you Greek Geek for not stepping into the ring!

    FUCK THIS SHIT.

    I want to see if the Alex has the balls to divulge how he has fucked this ship up, or has at least been a part of it.

  55. Mike Aviles?!?!?!? This team is a fucking joke

    • You spelled Bucholtz wrong.

    • yeah and word is Adam Lind going the otherbway. given his strong performance post devotion, I was actually intrigued to see what he could do. frankly, I wouldn’t have traded Lind for aviles straight up

  56. Any chance they promote Butter and bring in someone like Fasano to coach in his place?

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