For Shit sakes, can’t a man just watch Lionheart and get drunk without some supposedly significant news breaking?

Um… evidently not, because Sean McAdam of CSN New England tweets what we’ve been longing to fucking hear: it’s finally official, John Farrell will manage the Boston Red Sox.

Alex Speier of WEEI.com tweets that compensation won’t be announced for a couple days– thank fuck.

Earlier, MLBTR passed along Denver Post reporter Troy Renck’s tweet that Sandy Alomar Jr. is now the favourite to manage the Jays. Alomar was reportedly the runner-up to Farrell when the Jays searched for a manager two years ago– and can’t you just see them raping the corpse of ’92-’93 to help soften the blow by putting Robbie on the staff? Not that he may not be qualified, but… y’know… holy fucking cynical.

But hey, everyone loves Robbie– and that would certainly soften this PR blow. Or the PR blow that will come when the fans who know two players on the Red Sox find out we’re not getting either one of them.

Or maybe it won’t happen. We don’t know yet– or maybe I just don’t know, because I’ve spent the last 20 minutes typing this out on my phone, and all kinds of shit might be different by now.

I’ll update you if that’s the case, but until then, thank fuck it’s over. Let’s get drunk.

UPDATE: Jon Morosi tweets that the player the Jays will receive was a Major Leaguer in 2012, and is an infielder. Not Middlebrooks.

Hey, cryptic games for two days– just what we need!

Or, y’know, it’s fucking Ciriaco.

UPDATE THE SECOND: Or maybe it isn’t. Rob Bradford of WEEI.com tweets that Mike Aviles is coming our way. Hey, so do we have a second baseman, maybe? Sure, why not?

UPDATE THE THIRD: Obviously Aviles helps the Jays nicely in freeing them up to trade a shortstop, if so inclined. And seeing as that kind I stuff is by far the most important aspect to the off-season, it’s hat I complain.

Better still? Bob Elliott tweets that we shouldn’t be surprised to see Adam Lind also go the other way. Sure, fine.

Comments (786)

  1. The Red Sox will supply compensation to the Blue Jays for Farrell, though that isn’t expected to be announced until the coming days. FOXSports.com reported that infielder Mike Aviles would be headed to Toronto as compensation, while the Blue Jays also will part with first baseman Adam Lind.

  2. Without knowing what was going on behind the scenes, it’s pretty hard to judge the deal. Maybe AA & JF were scrapping a lot about who gets in the lineup, or the consequences for the fuck-ups. Maybe everyone realized JF didn’t really show much improvement in two years at the helm. Maybe JF’s Fathead collection of Ellis Burks, Carl Yastrzemski and Calvin Schiraldi on his condo living room wall was just too much.

  3. Wait. With any luck Aviles fails his physical. There is still a chance….

    I’m also glad to see the team just try to find someone who won’t turn second base into a black hole. The team can then concentrate fully on getting some motherfucking pitching finally.

  4. I’m happy JF got to go home. The deal, as I understand, clarifies things a bit. It means 2nd is taken care of with a veteran in place. With a veteran in place, I bet Hechavarria starts at SS next season. I’m confident that YE is traded for pitching unless a future trading partner wants Hechavarria instead. Those discussions, at least preliminary, have likely taken place, AA knows what the price(s) are and it was probably a factor in JF’s compensation. Arizona is likely that trading partner with pitching coming the Jay’s way. Lind saves the team loot. He might bounce back but he’s too inconsistent and has major physical problems. I’d take the risk of moving him in the JF deal because the extra money can be better put towards the starting rotation. I hope there’s a minor leaguer in the deal for the Jays too. Perhaps someone in A ball with high upside to take a flyer on. It would be great to get one of their better pitchers but I can live with this deal as reported because it addresses need and gives the team a quick jump on a clubhouse issue before FA starts. Sandy Alomar Jr. is going to be the new manager. He’s highly regarded and with Robbie a part of the Jay’s organization, a good fit. I’m wondering what this will mean for the rest of JF’s coaching staff? I guess we’ll know soon.

  5. AA has really went from stud to shit, hasn’t he?

    The guy spent months hiring a new manager and ended up with Farrell, who has been pretty much useless. Then he trades this guy to a division rival for what seems to be a nobody.

    The Blue Jays suck and AA is terrible.

    • If you are a complete moron and you don’t know anything about baseball, I am curious as to why you inflict your opinion upon us? I know nothing about brain surgery but I dont hit up doctor forms with my opinions of techniques I don’t understand.

  6. Adam Lind is not part of deal with Toronto, a baseball source said, putting that speculation to rest. – Gordon Edes, ESPN boston

    http://twitter.com/GordonEdes

  7. The real hinge as to whether this deal is a loss or a win is whether the $7M saved from dumping Lind is reinvested into the roster or disappears into Rogers’ substantial profits.

    Unfortunately, there’s zero precedent for such savings actually being reinvested. There’s also no way to know for sure whether it was, even after the fact, since AA already said that they’re going to be looking at FAs anyway. Unless at some point after they sign one AA specifically says “this signing represents the reinvesting of Lind’s money,” it’s impossible to be sure.

    I think AA & Beeston will spin it as freeing up money to be reinvested elsewhere, as they are smart enough to know that Aviles will do nothing for most fans. But I highly doubt it will actually happen that way, which basically reduces the comp to just Aviles. If that’s the case, put me on board with the people who would have told the Sox to shove it, waited until they hired someone else and then fired Farrell.

  8. Why didn’t he just tag him?

  9. Good. This shitshow is over. Manager gone who didnt want to be here next season anyway. Not as if he were the franchise or anything. Could do alot worse than Aviles. Jays were not gonna much more for a manager and he fills a need for now anyway. Let Sandy jr. and Robbie give it a shot. Cant do any worse than this past year.

  10. Hey good news guys…

    Jays won the posting for Yu Darvish!!!!!!

    Oh wait…. No they didn’t.

    Can we all just wait for the full details before losing out shit.?? Seriously??

  11. Let’s have some context here.

    The Mariners got Randy Winn for sweet Lou. You know, the manager who holds the single season record for wins.

    The White Sox got two prospects for the Oz man. You know, the Oz who brought them their first World Series since 1917.

    If that’s the market for experienced managers with accomplishments, what did anyone think the markets for Farrell was?

    Like Lou or Ozzie or not, they have done much more than Farrell. They are all stars. Farrell is a scrub based on his performance.

    Based on the market for trading managers, getting any roster player seems like a good deal.

  12. What’s the deal with the language in this post?! This is what The Score allows to be posted on their site? I won’t be reading here anymore if this is whats passes as sports journalism. Shame on you Score, I held you at a high standard.

    • This is a blog called Drunk Jays Fans. Colorful language is to be expected. For their ‘straighter’ blog, check out getting blanked.

    • You sound like u have a stick shoved so far up your ass.

    • Oh fuck right off, would you? Fuckin tool

    • Umm D
      It’s a blog.And Stoeten will be the first to tell you he’s not a journalist nor does he aspire to be one.
      A commenter said last year that Stoeten hada “potty” mouth.He’s actually toned it down quite a bit, as have I, just to appease the good folks here.
      We rarely use terms like cocksucker,motherfucker etc. anymore.
      Instead Stoeten prefers to call me moron,idiot or my favorite “champ”
      It’s a semi moderated blog for uninhibited, raw interaction of Jays fans.We commenters like it that way.

    • Nothing wrong with the language for fucksakes, but the writing, is , you know, kinda smarmy and poor. Plus if Stoeten doesnt like your comment he won’t deign to argue with you because, you know. he like totally thinks that sarcasm and condesention are arguments. He can’t write and is an asshole, so why do I come here? He is a good critical thinker and he hates Steve Simmons.

  13. There better be more than Aviles…
    I guy with an on-base of .289 & .282 the last two seasons with OK but not great defense! You can’t find all-stars like that on just anyone’s AAA roster

    My question would be – if that is the actual compensation – why was there negotations?
    It would have been easier for the Red Sox to send a list of 10 crap ML, AAA & AA players to Toronto and let them choose one – because I am sure Aviles would have been on the list

  14. The more I read about Ausmus, the more intrigued I am about him possibly being manager.

  15. Is Adam Lind gone or what? Do we have a credible statement on that one way or the other?

    In any case, as many people have pointed out, Farrell’s record is lousy. He blatantly had no commitment to the team he was hired to manage. He was a failure. And he better turn into a success right quick over at Fenway. Because the Massholes think he’s their saviour and if it doesn’t turn out that way they will tear him limb from limb.

    AA got rid of a sideshow he didn’t need. When the dust settles in a day or so, I think we will see an article, probably from Brunt, disclosing a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that will make Farrell look horrible. I suspect we will also, possibly even today, hear that Sandy Alomar is the new manager. That timing will demonstrate that AA intended to rid himself of Farrell all along.

    And then we will get back to business. I hope. I’m absolutely not gonna ding AA for this. Bard has lost a lot of his luster. We weren’t ever gonna get Bucholtz. Pedroia and Ellsbury were off-limits. AA wanted to lose an embarrassment. He gone. Aviles works as a super-sub or is packaged and moved on. It’s all good.

  16. Toronto is officially a feeder town. Done.

    First Burnett, then wells, rios, marcum, now John Farrell.

    Fuck being another teams bitch. We succumbed to the soxs’ hype machine.

    • You’re using Wells as an example? Really? Fail. The Angels were AA’s bitch that time.

      Yes, Toronto gets perceived as a farm team for the rest of MLB and this Farrell business only furthers that problem. But Wells isn’t an example. The other examples you cite weren’t really good examples either. Sorry.

    • ????? Those were all cases of the Jays takin out the trash. Except Marcum which was a trade of quality for quality. And Marcum may be back soon.

    • Seriously?

      Geting Lawrie for Marcum!
      Shredding Wells’ massive deal.
      AJ going on and shitting the bed in New York.
      Rios was an asshole and overpaid.

      Those are your examples?

    • With the possible exception of Marcum (who by the way was traded for Potential MVP Brett Lawrie in a good old fashioned trade ) all those guys left town after sucking huge piles of shit. How exactly does that make us a feeder town? If anything, the Jays have a solid history of signing their own home grown starts to long term deals – Delgado, Wells, Green, Rios, Hill, Lind, Bautista (ok not really home grown) EE, etc. Now, maybe those dont work out, but still what you say is completely wrong.

  17. This may be AA finest hour, he loses a coach that hada cyumulative sub .500 winning percentag e, gets rid of a $7 million expense in Lind, AND a usable player comminf the other way. Not bad. Lets go get a real Manager now and go to the promised land, and watch as Farrwlll turnes the circus in Boston up about 10 notches. Farrell may make Valentine look like a bouscout before the is through!

  18. I don’t mind AA/Beeston shedding themselves of a manager who didn’t want to be in Toronto (if that’s the case), but if it’s not Lind going the other way and Toronto’s only getting Aviles, that’s kinda weak. Whatever, let’s start the replacement manager media circus and give ourselves something new to obsess over for the next few weeks!

    Seriously though, Aviles? Weak.

  19. Confido wins this thread.
    Most others, it would appear – are slightly insane.

    • Well look who’s giving out awards and calling people names…another DJF officianado. Its not even the big D, its the little d. Yeah you guys are probably related cause you’re both stirring it up. D and d., winners of the ‘Farrell to Boston, blog Trouuble Makers Award og Excellence. Cngrats fellas you win

      • And celebrated DJF poster / philosopher birddawg wins the ’2nd Rate, Poor Speller, Feeder Poster’ award.

        Congrats.
        It truly is a big day.

        • Shit my goal is to win every thread, to crush my opponents.
          I’m, not even in the top twenty.
          I must be slipping.
          OR I’m enjoying the point/counterpoint conversations and not worrying about usless shit.
          Fuck,I got a potty mouth.

  20. So no Scutaro then?

  21. i’m sorry but anyone who thinks keeping farrell was a good move or that they could have gotten more than aviles while subtracting lind is just a complete moron. my favourite is the retard who said they are ‘selling low on lind’

  22. So, now that the “AA is a genius for dumping Lind and getting rid of lousy manager” narrative no longer holds true, what does the chorus of knowitalls have for us now?

    We still don’t know whom, if anyone, is following Farrell from the coaching staff. If this team turns around and hands over its staff against its own newly instituted policy against lateral moves SPECIFICALLY CREATED DUE TO THIS SITUATION, for the fucking prize of Mike Aviles, I’m sorry. No one makes that look good to me. And yes, it sure as shit is different if it’s to the White Sox as opposed to a team you play 19 games against a year.

    That’s your leverage.

    And the Yanks and Boston play the front-office game ruthlessly. This has no bearing on who signs here. You win players over by treating them really, really well (remember what it took contractually to get Burnett here). I don’t think players care if you’re playing hardball with a manager who is trying to find his escape hatch back to the womb in Boston. That said, I do think there is an opportunity here to get a guy like Alomar who might appeal to Latinos, and they may as well seize it if they think he can lead as well as anyone else.

    But you have the blinders on if you think that giving away ANYTHING that a division rival really, really wants is OK — so much that they will hold out for a whole season, tamper with your organization, and possibly rip a hole through your entire coaching staff. Cherington is lighting a cigarette because he just screwed us.

  23. i would have rather told boston to go fuck themselves… keep Farrell till they found a new manager and then fired him to bring on Alomar.. This is Sparta!

  24. Personally, I think the deal is rather useless. Farrel did nothing to help the Jays, Aviles will be a bench player.
    The only plus is that we get rid of Lind’s 5 million dollar salary, so we can acquire some pitching.
    Maybe we trade Hechavarria, if we can get a solid pitcher

  25. Posted before, but Lind is not a part of this deal. He is not a part of this deal. https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/259973360266645505

  26. @shevy

    That’s what Ricciardi would have done. Which kind of blatantly makes it the wrong move.

    I would like Lind to be gone but even if he isn’t, losing Farrell makes this team better moving forward if they make the right hire next time. One thing that always really bothered me about him is that deer-in-the-headlights look he got when he was called on to make a fast on-field decision. He was a pitching coach so generally never had to think on his feet. But a manager does. I’m not sure he has the right skill-set for that. And looking at what happened to Romero this season, I doubt he knows how to handle young pitchers either. I suspect it was just a happy coincidence that he was working with pitchers he happened to get in with over in Boston.

    Too bad if we are keeping Lind. I had hoped we were shot of him. Also too bad if the coaches depart. Except not. Because it’s not like they were doing an incredibly wonderful job either and Mottola and Fasano are kind of knocking on the door here. Hard. So I’d like to see them with the club.

  27. Regardless of the reports, I still find it hard to believe that we only got mike aviles for farrell. If AA thought trading our secrets and looking like some soft team that doesn’t belong in the al east was worth it for a sub 300 obp 2nd basemen i’m thoroughly ashamed.

  28. Good riddance. Stats and analysis aside I never got the feeling Farrell was right for this situation.

    Good luck to JF, he’ll need it. The Boston media is among the most brutal in the country, they’ll have a short impatient leash.

    John Henry and crew are working to package the Sox up for a sale (they like futbol now). Farrell will be a solid addition for them to bring in to the suitor dog-and-pony shows. He’s nothing if not smart and a savvy speaker.

  29. Holy fuck you guys need to calm down. This is a fine deal, in fact who even gives a shit. You could basically insert anyone who knows basic baseball into a managerial position and he would do just fine. It’s the talent on the field that counts. This doesn’t sting at all to me. Aviles will be great to have a round, and Farrell didn’t want to be here anyway.

    I personally have felt it shocking the entire time that we would get ANY compensation for a manager. Mostly, managers and coaches just get straight up fired when they under perform; this time we happened to get a decent ball player back in return.

    Again, who really fucking cares. Get my attention when something significant happens.

    • Indeed.

      Let me know when we get some starting pitching.

      Don’t let me know when we get a great “value pick up”.

  30. If it’s so insignificant because it’s just a manager, why even have a manager?

    Even if he wasn’t a good one, he has an immediate edge on a division rival right now by virtue of having overseen the entire onfield operation day-in, day-out, as well as being in touch with the farm system. And he still may take coaches with him.

    Halladay didn’t want to be here, should we have just sucked it up and given him away, too? No, they got the best deal possible.

    I really like AA, and that is why it pains me to say that he didn’t get what I view as the best deal possible. I don’t know the inner workings of the negotiations and if this was the hard line drawn, fine. I think Boston would have coughed up more if they really wanted this guy. The fact that they still went after him a year after their first pursuit tells me this.

    • And what if Boston chokes next year too? And Aviles ends up as our second baseman, or fills in our middle infield under any injury circumstance? Managers are just not that important, but talent is. I think Alomar will do just as well as any other fella they drop into the situation. Hell, I’m fairly certain I could manage a ball team; sign me up.

    • Screw a manager then! Jose as player-manager!

    • Ya Farrell really helped the Jays with his knowledge of Boston. Medium talent.

  31. When’s the news conference? I just want to know what the actual facts are at this point. My guess is that Aviles gets flipped in a package for some real talent.

    I read somewhere that when Ausmus interviewed with the Bosox, he showed up well prepared with his coaching staff already assembled. If we don’t get Alomar, I would be interested to see what Ausmus can do.

  32. Off topic, but does anyone believe the Jays will go after Shoheni Otani- the 18 year old “phenom” from Japan? He hasn’t played professionally yet, so he is a free agent and no posting fee is needed.

    • No. This cheapass team has already had the opportunity to get tons of talented guys for nothing but money (I’m not even talking about Chapman and Darvish—more like Cespedes, Soler, Puig) and has passed every single time.

  33. everyone needs to calm the fuck down until we actually know what the deal is. aa works in the shadows so i wont believe it until its done. that said i’m fine with a middle infield option that allows either an escobar trade or a year of hech in buffalo to develop.

  34. Aviles will be good off the bench. Another good move for AA. What else did you expect for an awkward manager like Farrell?

  35. @Buster_ESPN:
    Jays have been furious with what they perceive to be Boston’s tampering with Farrell, but it was smart of them to move past that.

  36. I’d just like to know why AA is such a scumbag lying piece of shit lol. Like why emphatically state over and over again that Farrell is not going anywhere, etc. I know he’s not going tocome out and say we’re trading him, but the bold face lies right to the fans is so fucking…weird!

    • If he doesn’t keep stating that Farrell isn’t going anywhere, he might as well bend over and spread his cheeks for Cherington. He wasn’t lying to the fans, he was playing poker with another GM.

    • When did AA say that. I’m
      Calling out your rhetoric.

      • For now, though, Toronto has remained firm in its stance that Farrell isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

        “John is the manager of our club,” Anthopoulos said on the last day of the regular season. “I don’t have a problem at all [with him returning on a one-year deal]. I know this has been asked before — about terms of the contract and things like that.

      • As Toronto Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos continues to suggest that John Farrell isn’t going anywhere, let’s take a look at what precedent suggests the Boston Red Sox would have to pay their AL East rivals to attain his services. [Boston Herald]

      • Good job on calling it out Brent, maybe google it first next time.

        • What would you have said Riggs, if you we’re AA?

          Would you suggest to the media that there is a chance that Farrell wouldn’t return? Because that would mean he would’ve had zero leverage.

          He said the right things, sadly you aren’t smart enough to understand why.

          Move along Riggs.

          • Lol ya…this coming from a guy who can’t spell stoned? I am fully aware of why he did it, but he clearly has no idea how to use the media to his advantage. EVERY time there is controversy it is handled the wrong way by this ridiculous code of silence.

  37. AA – Ok Boston, if you were in the NL, we would just let you have Farrell. Since you are in our division – how about your 20th ranked prospect.

    Boston – we will give you a picture of Schilling’s bloody sock for Farrell.

    AA – Let’s meet in the middle since anyone has to do a better job of managing that Farrell did for us

    Boston – you love worthless utilities infielders with sub-.300 OBP – I’m sure you miss Visquel already… We will give you Mike Aviles.

    • So now the anti-Farrell stuff is starting up in Toronto media. Evidently it wasn’t just Vizquel who opened his mouth about accountability. The Star mentions ‘several players’ commenting on that and The Sun specifically mentions Janssen and Lind(!) as saying the same thing. I do hope Lind lands in Boston after that!

      Apparently the Jays player to be named later is understood to be someone underperforming on an expensive contract. So if it’s not Lind, who could it be!

  38. Latest scuttlebutt out of Bosox:

    http://www.csnne.com/baseball-boston-redsox/redsox-talk/Lind-to-Sox-rumors-shot-down-will-Farrel?blockID=791477&feedID=10948

    They’re saying that Lind definitely isn’t part of the deal *now* but that doesn’t mean he won’t be an option when the announcement is finally made. Also Butterfield is a Maine native so they’re all a-twitter over whether he goes along with Farrell.

    Butter is worth more than Farrell in my opinion for his positioning ability and behind the scenes prep work – demand compensation for him!

    • Agreed that Butter is worth more to the Jays in my view than Farrell. But all of the coaches were operating under one-year deals to my knowledge, which means that they are technically free to talk to other clubs.

      Mind you, AA could tell Cherington to fuck off already and leave his coaching staff alone, but nothing prevents Butter or any other of the coaches to follow their leader to the promised land in Boston.

      As an aside, any new manager hired by the Jays will likely want to bring in a few of his baseball buddies to take on coaching jobs. So, I am expecting to see a few of the coaches go with Farrell. Too bad that Murphy won’t be one of them.

  39. While filling out the line up card doesn’t have huge impact, a manager and coaching staff can affect talent. Think of Joey Bats and Gaston. When Farrell came in everyone was comparing him to Bud Black in San Frito, who did a great job with the pitching. How has the pitching been in Toronto? Are we near the top there?

    What reason would anyone have for hiring Farrell? And we got anything for him?

    We didn’t trade Jesus!

    • …and we didn’t get (de)Jesus back either!

    • San Deigo. Fuckin auto correct.

      • Diego? ;)

      • Like I was saying the other day regarding Walton. As much as I don’t like him, and I know it’s mostly irrational on my part, the numbers the pitching staff has put up are largely a reflection of things outside a pitching coach or managers control. I make the same argument for those wanting Murphy’s head. In Walton’s case he might actually have had it worse.

        When you’re being supplied a bunch of replacement level starters and relievers because of injuries and lack of payroll there’s not a lot that can be done except to cross your fingers and hope for the best.

        3 years of below average payroll, a developmental gap in your farm system and a historic run of injuries won’t make a pitching coach or manager look good.

        Last of all, it’s the players throwing the ball not the coaches.

    • We didn’t trade Jesus, but Farrell is a Judas.

    • Also, it doesn’t matter what reason anyone has for hiring Farrell. That’s their prerogative. The notion that Boston gets what Boston wants is the source of the stench surrounding this “deal.”

      • Bingo, Jim Briggs… that’s the one thing that bugs me about this deal more than anything else. If it was, let’s say, Miami badgering the Jays for Farrell and then letting him go there for almost nothing, it wouldn’t stink anywhere nearly as much as the perception that it’s the Red Sux doing so to a “lowly” division rival.

  40. Wait a minute, according to that Comcast article, Butters’ contract is up. Is he, or is he not under contract?

    • I believe all the coaches are on 1 year deals so technically I think he can go where he chooses.

  41. wow, Mike Aviles. a player that has averaged 0.3 oWAR over the past 3 years. if this is true we got anally raped.

    • So dumb.

      What would ever make you think the Jays could get more? What manager trading precedent are you referring to?

    • How much fucking WAR did John Farrell bring to the Jays? Fuck WAR. The Jays got a serviceable bench player in Aviles.

      Now, if AA decides to peg Aviles as the starting second baseman, then yeah, there is reason to be pissed. But direct your anger at AA’s inability to find a decent 2B option. For example, Dan Murphy of the Mets is said to be available this offseason, as the Mets are likely going to be buyers for an outfielder making Valdespin move back to 2B.

  42. I hope Farrell fails his physical.

    • BoSux will discover that Farrell will need Tommy John surgery (Ninja GM AA gives Farrell arm injury while slamming the door on Farrell as he was leaving the Dome).

  43. we got another Omar Vizquel for trading our mgr to a division rival. so weak.

  44. OK, MLBTR now saying that it’s going to be a player from the Jays’ 40-man that is “on the fringes.”

    Here’s the 40-man: http://mlb.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=tor

    Potentially, there’s:
    Brummett
    Beck
    Carreno
    Cecil
    Crawford
    Dyson
    Lyon (?) thought his contract was up
    Mathis (think even he is too valuable)
    Vizquel (I’m joking)
    McCoy
    Gomes
    Cooper
    ——-
    Even though most of those guys don’t excite us, I don’t see us giving up on most of their relative youth.

    But if it’s Aviles for, say, McCoy, is that not a pretty damn marginal upgrade? The pitchers all seem too young to just toss in to the deal.

    One hold-up to the announcement could be that they actually have to call some AAAA scrub up to take Vizquel’s place on the 40-man.

    Curious.

    • You are completely under rating Aviles if you think Aviles for McCoy is a marginal upgrade.

      • you’d be happy with Aviles in our starting lineup on a regular basis?

        • Over McCoy? Yes. As a regular, not particularly. Of course him starting isn’t set in stone. Maybe the team goes with Hechavarria at 2nd and Aviles ends up being your utility player. He can play all 3 spots well.

          • maybe Aviles is the backup plan for Hech next year. when we definitively find out what we already know (that Hech isn’t ready offensively) next year then Aviles can take over at 2nd or it can become a platoon. so, we are getting weaker at 2B next year….

        • Where the fuck did I say that? Aviles is a solid utility infielder. It fills a hole the Jays have, and is a significant upgrade over what the Jays had at that position last year.

          • so Aviles is a backup player. i’m not sure how you are so excited about that. we make the Red Sox happy with this deal and we get a backup player. good for you if you are happy but i am not.

  45. AA is fucking terrible if Mike Aviles is all he got, the guy on the blue Jyas 40 man roster going the other way could be better.

    I’d keep Farrell under contract just to piss Boston off if Mike Aviles all we could get.
    This fucking organization is dreadful.

    Better be a big offseason or I’m fucking out, AA is a terrible fucking gm.

    See Ja Happ trade.

    • yeah, AA instantly loses ninja status if this true

    • What did Farrell ever do in Torinto. Serious. Sub-500. We’re lucky we got anything

      • Amazing that Farrell gets so much of the blame for a team plagued with below average payrolls and a historic amount of injuries on top of a rather large developmental gap in your minor league system that’s supposedly there to ably plug the holes in the event of injuries.

        He’s not the one giving up the homers or striking out is he?

        • I dunno. Did you like what you saw with what he did have though?

          Bullpen management? Bunting? Supposed clubhouse problems? The Escobar thing?

          I don’t know if he’s a good manager. And there’s definitely an asterix on the 2012 season because of injuries. But, I saw enough this season to not lose much sleep over losing him.

          • The irony was that all the clubhouse issues didn’t rear their head until the team fell off a cliff after Jose’s injury. Again if you look who was talking about the supposed issues, Vizquel and Lind, you’ve got to wonder about the integrity of those comments. Lind got demoted and Vizquel wasn’t getting to play and could have heard that Farrell wanted him out.

            As others have wisely noted, managers are probably being credited with having too much influence on the results one way or another. At the end of the day it’s the talent level or lack there off that’s going to determine the results. That’s on the GM and ownership more than anything else.

    • My feeling is that AA could not deliver what farrell wanted in terms of starting pitching.

      Farrell may have told AA that he needs players to perform, but AA couldn’t guarantee that , so Farrell quit or asked to be traded.

  46. guys, fuck off with the Lind hate. he is one of our best hitters sadly enough.

    • That’s lke the third or fourth time you have written that exact post. We get it. So stop with the repetition please.

      • well, i’ve seen Lind hate posted a hell of a lot more than 3 or 4 times. if everyone is running guys out of town all the time how are we going to get better? look what happened with Hill….

  47. I think at the end of day the Jays aren’t losing anything substantial when it comes to on field performance. Aviles is a decent enough piece when all is said and done as it gives the team more flexibility for trades or filling other holes.

    That said, I think where they really took at hit was the perception of the franchise. I know it’s one of those areas where there really isn’t a lot of tangible evidence to discuss or go over, but to me it just highlights a level of dysfunction in the organization that you’d really not have the outside world see. Just like any other team, there’s always bound to be a certain level of it. However, when you add this to the lack of winning over the last 20 years, the stigma of being in Canada, the pitching injuries, Escobar’s mess, and Vizquel’s shitty comments to the media, it’s just the latest item in a long list of things that doesn’t exactly recommend the city to potential free agents when the dollars being discussed are equal.

    Seeing as the team is heading into the winter looking to add players via free agency in a manner they haven’t done in a number of years, it doesn’t exactly start the team off in a promising way. I guess on the bright side of things if the team is truly serious and they demonstrate a willingness to spend, a lot of that will go away almost immediately.

    • I do think the team is worse off today.

      What FA would come here with a GM that can’t even keep his own manager under contract??

      This is a mickey mouse organization that didn’t even give a chance to the house lackeys like Winer & Davidi that this was coming.

      Wilner would have loved a chance to tear apart farrell during this season, but was afriad to.?

      Who would take AA seriously about spending??

      For him he could say payroll is 84 million vs 83 million & turn around & say it’s an increase.

      This has been a week of dysfunction for the Jays.

      First, Brunt says Beeston isn’t happy with Rogers but signs an extension.

      Now farrell & AA didn’t get along over Visquel??? So Farrell goes to Boston.

      Why did AA sign Visquel anyway??? It was to mentor Escobar & Hecheverria… Disaster

      We are the clown team of the AL East..l

      • I agree with you on some of those points but I think a lot of their problems can be fixed this winter by just ponying up and spending a bit extra or being extremely creative with their trades.

        I think your media comments regarding Wilner or Davidi are completely irrelevant. All AA did was stick to his no comment policy. Personally I could give a shit if Wilner wanted to rip Farrell now or down the road.

        At the end of the day if they offer free agent Y, X amount of dollars above the other team’s offer they at least have a chance. Hiring the right manager this time around will also help things and might even be the key to getting the right player. We saw that with Burnett and Arnsberg.

        • Fair enough , but I have little confidence that AA can get this job done.

          It’s pretty sad that AA can’t even keep his own manager under control.

          It’s not like the red sox are a great team now , so I find it interesting that he wants to go back to Boston with half the team gone.

          I am sure that it will come out that AA couldn’t deliver a good roster for Farrell.

      • Aren’t you glad you renewed your season tix?

    • This would have looked better from a PR perspective if the Jays had been able to hire Francona now.

      • fixes everything and returns AA to ninja status IMO

      • Bingo. Getting Francona would be brilliant.

        As usual AA is two weeks late & a several million dollarsshort.

        I think I will rent a clown costume & show up at the opener with a name tag that says AA’s brother.

  48. Mike Aviles even with Kelly Johnson strikeouts this year is a fucking better 2B than Mike Aviles if \mike Aviles is our starting second basemen we are fucking looking at another shitty season.

    Make matters worse Tory Louvello, Brain Butterfield and Luis Rivera are going with him, Mike Aviles for almost our entire Coaching staff is a fucking terrible trade.

    We could have singed a Mike Aviles type player in free agency for peanutts.

    We couldn’t get them to Take Murrphy, quick is Dwanye Murrphy now on our 40 man roster, please say yes!

  49. Has anyone bothered to look at what Tampa sent to Seattle for Lou Piniella and what Miami sent the White Sox for Ozzie Guillen? Seattle received Randy Winn and the White Sox got a Double A reliever and Miami’s #5 rated prospect — whose contract was then purchased by the Dodgers this summer. Piniella and Guillen actually won World Series, ffs! If that’s what two World Series winners were worth, why was Toronto supposed to get back the world from Boston for a guy who has two fourth place finishes under his belt? That Lind is going in this deal is a bonus. Sure, he looked like he was bouncing back in the first half of 2011, but then his average falls a good 50 or so points in the second half and he gets waived (with no takers. I might add) and sent down to Las Vegas this year. The guy is useless to the club! Even if he rebounds elsewhere, so what? It happens. Some guys need a change of scenery, e.g. Aaron Hill. Do Pittsburgh fans whine about Bautista and Reds fans whine about the season that Encarnacion just had?

    • I think we should have gotten Bard and Aviles, Aviles as a bench player not an everyday player he’s terrible.
      Lind apparently is not in the deal.

  50. why do you want Lind putting up .800 OPS and killing us 19 times a year for the Red Sox? if you look at the stat Lind was our 3rd or 4th best hitter this year sadly enough. and he certainly has the pop to be really dangerous if he gets his shit together. sorry, but we just need a bit of patience and a decent batting coach and Lind will be alright. I don’t want him to turn into another Hill (wouldnt you love to see him back here?).

  51. Why is everyone just assuming that Aviles is now the starting second baseman? Is it not way too early to assume that AA won’t make any more moves to get a better every day 2B? I know we need pitching, but 2B was always something he had to address this winter and I have to think that he wasn’t banking on trading a manager for his ideal solution.

    • It gives the Jays some leeway..

      If they can’t come up with a starting 2B (and there’s not a lot of there right now) Aviles can probably do a barely passable job.

      And if the Jays are able to get someone else to play second, Aviles takes over Vizquel’s role.

      • Agreed. I can’t see how this is a bad deal except for in terms of macho posturing to show the Jays can’t be intimidated by the Red Sox. They showed that last year when they demanded Buchholz for Farrell, which was essentially the same thing as saying “Fuck off”. It’s obvious that things were different this time around.

  52. Do we know for sure coaches are going with Farrell? There’s only been speculation so until contracts are signed there’s no point in getting wound up about coaches. As somebody else mentioned perhaps a bit of turnover in the coaching ranks will be good for the team. The only one I would hate to see go is Butterfield but I long ago learned that no one is indispensable.

    If this is a done deal then I hope AA has a manager ready to go by the end of the WS and can hit the ground running for the GMs’ and winter meetings.

    • That’s just it I get Rivera and Louvello going with Farrell.
      But Butter has been here for a very long time why the hell would he turn coat us.

      • Exactly. Butter precedes Farrell as a Jays employee. If Butter was going to leave I would have expected it when he didn’t get the manager’s job and at that time I expected him to go Baltimore since he and Buck worked together previously.

  53. From a Boston perspective, Nick Cafardo tweets:

    “Toronto GM Alex Anthopulos did a good job getting Mike Aviles as compensation for John Farrell. “

  54. And for everyone that is saying the Jays had all the leverage in this situation, just because it was obvious the Red Sox really wanted Farrell doesn’t mean that they were going to do something disastrously stupid like trade a starting pitcher. Leverage doesn’t give you superpowers. None of us know the full inside story, but either Farrell wanted to leave, AA wanted Farrell to leave, or both and instead of firing him and getting nothing we got a MLB level player.

    • Leverage doesn’t give you superpowers, but it doesn’t mean you do something disastrously stupid like letting a divisional opponent pick away at your entire coaching staff for the low-low price of a 31-year-old utility infielder. I honestly don’t get why more people do not understand what that is going to do to the team.

      They better hope that they come up with some capable improvements and replacements in that department, because it could easily be a giant setback to lose Butterfield, Rivera and Lovullo.

      • We still DON’T KNOW if a of those coaches are leaving.

        Quit speculating and talking like you have knowledge of the details of this trade.

        Davidi’s article is to definitive, it’s speculation too.

  55. a backup/substitute MLB player. whoopie. BFD.

  56. it really looks bad for the Jays to trade your manager for crap like Aviles. only way they do this deal is if Farrell is unhappy and wants to go and in this case it makes the Jays organization look like a joke if they cant hold onto a manager on his rookie contract.

    • You are on crack. The Jays got rid of a guy who didnt want to be here and who , at best, was not helping them win any games. In fact, the only thing I know about him really is that his team made made more fundamental idiotic errors than I have ever seen a team make and that 99% of those were base running erros. In my opinion if you traded the best manager in the world for one of the worst players you are still coming out on top. ANd TO those saying the Jays look bad on this, they are not the disaster ridden last place team who just traded a player for an unsuccessful manager. I am unable to find out if LInd being included is true, but if it is the Jays saved like 10 million dollars when you subtract Lind and Johnson and add Aviles. Plus they get to get a new manager and still have one of the most exciting young teams in ball. Not just a good move, an absoute steal.

      • Using your logic, the Jays should have sent Bautista to the red sox because they could save 50 million.

        It is unheard of to lose a manager under contract to a division rival for cheap compensation.

        AA brags about wanting starting pitching yet he gets a utility infielder.

        • That isn’t what he is saying at all oakville and you know it man. You aren’t that dumb.

      • can i borrow some of your shit man? i want some of whatever it is that you are smoking.

  57. gogo Dave Martinez

  58. Ah, Farrell, we hardly knew ye….what a fuckin’ joke of a MLB team!!! Christ, too bad AA wasn’t part of the deal as well. Fuck, all that’s happened is that we fans have been lied to all season. Fuck Rogers!!! I’m not paying my bill…

  59. in the light of day – unclouded by booze, and post-lind is going to boston…this isn’t what i was hoping for, but it isn’t the end of the world.

    it’s good to see there’s still a little piss and vinegar in the jays fan base, though.

    aviles was basically traded to the bosox for a bag of balls. he’s no randy winn, buchholz or bard…but he’s a guy that’s likely to stick on the 25-man. with luck, that’s as vizquel’s replacement, not the starting 2b.

    • AA better get Shaun marcum in a Jays uniform on day 1 of free agency or else the fanbase will explode.
      AA lost any credibility he had about being a shrewed negotiator.

      Aviles is not acceptable compensation.

      • @oakville69: This is not hockey. There is no “free agent frenzy”. It takes a while for the market to develop. I can guaran-fucking-tee you that no valuable free agent will sign on the first day of free agency, so cool your jets. The fanbase may explode, but that would just be the reactionary twits that don’t remember how the market develops from one off-season to the next.

  60. i guess the Jays are waiting to announce the deal until after they sign a replacement manager. It would look pretty bad otherwise. come on Francona!! if it isnt a big name manager, then this deal is a downgrade for us overall, at least from an optics perspective.

    • I wonder who we’ll have to send to Cleveland as compensation for Francona ;-)

      • fuck i missed that. this is so weak. now we have to take our own sloppy seconds for manager. this looks reeally bad for the Jays organzation.

  61. Things may not be all sunshine and rainbows for Farrell if there’s any fact in this from a couple of days ago

    http://www.overthemonster.com/2012/10/18/3521480/john-farrell-red-sox-manager

  62. @yeah: No, I don’t want Hill here because he wasn’t producing. Lind’s OPS isn’t .800. It’s at the league average and to be considered in the top end of players, one has to have an OPS of .900 or more. Fyi, Francona is with Cleveland. I see your point about the importance of big name managers, though. Let’s hire Bobby Valentine and if we can’t get him, let’s entice Lou Piniella out of retirement.

    • we had 5 guys with an OPS above .700 this year of which Lind was one. Lind was .795 OPS vs RHP. How does dumping him make our offense stronger?

      http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2012.shtml

      Hill has had .880 OPS since he left, from the 2nd base position. He would be our 2nd best hitter over this time, behind only the mighty Joey Bats (yes, better than EEE). If you don’t think that would help our roster….

      • Your comment makes no sense. First of all, Lind sucks and is probably the worst first baseman / Dh in the American League. His best shot at recovering his career is on a new team. Which brings me to Hill who was finished here. Yes he had a good year, but so did Rios. I do not think that holding on to players and never making moves because they potentially can get better is the right thing to do. Its also immature to root against a guy because your team traded him. Nothing wrong with Dumping Hill for Johnson. As for Lind, its kind of unbelievable that he was taken at all.

        AA is genius, unfortunatley to the laymen genius often looks like stupidity.

        • They don’t give genius awards to GM’s who win 73 games.

          They don’t get bonuses because the team as injured.

          AA’s game is fooling fans into believing that cutting payroll works

          • Cutting payroll isn’t the same as dumping the contracts of overpaid andunderperforming players onto other teams. There is no fire sale going on here.

          • we dont have enough talent to have a fire sale. we only have 4 decent players not including the bullpen.

        • Lind isnt good anymore its true. He’s also not worth having around, minus the fact that there is no one else to play first base right now apart from EE and if he does, who DHs?

          The reason Lind wont be going anywhere in a trade is simply because no one will want him. He’s a bandaid with declining skills and no consistency not to mention his contract sucks too.

      • Yes, Hill would be helping our offence if he was doing that while he was here. So, yes, if you go strictly by OPS, Hill would be the second best hitter, just like I would be rich if I won the lottery this weekend. Since he wasn’t, I’m going to have to say his 2011 numbers said it all as far as his time in Toronto being up is concerned. In any case, I don’t care much for this moneyball stats stuff,so go look at Lind’s batting average and what has happened to his home run production this year. That tells the story. Hell, he can’t even play first base without getting injured! Enough patience has been shown. You’re assuming that Lind will pick it up and do damage in Boston, just like you’re assuming Hill could duplicate his Arizona numbers here.

  63. Regardless of the position (IF, SP), the important thing was to get the best player they could and use him as trade value for something they do need. Like Napoli, even though Francisco didn’t work out.

    But the pessimistic side of me thinks that AA is looking for someone cheap and ‘controllable’ for awhile.

    Sigh.

    • Of course AA wanted a cheap player with control.

      So is Mike Aviles 2013 an upgrade over Kelly Johnson 2012?? Maybe a bit.

      AA is a pushover , so as long as another GM has a damaged good player like Santos because he has a good contract.

      AA should do commercials for Value Village or Dollar stores.

  64. Yeah but it frees up position to trade a shortstop……….

    So what.

    There is more to being a GM than being a Value Whore. Ever consider the virtues of loyalty and keeping yup word Alex?

    And if he wanted to go then it’s your bed you made.
    Either way, the honeymoon is over. And I’m getting real tired of the tight lipped shit too.

    • +1.

      Apparently Griffin says that AA was upset that Farrell told the media he had one year left on his contract.

      AA should join CSIS if he wants to be a secretive GM.

      AA can go play in the sandbox with KC Royals.

      Who cares if AA gets 2 WAR & pays 1 WAR.

      Put a team on the field that can win more than 85 games & then I will take him seriously.

      • Why does AA need to do that when morons like you buy season tickets even when you hate the job he is doing?

  65. Those complaining, saying AA should be fired, they are mad about buying their tickets already, they need to SHUT THE FUCK UP. There is not way this is anything but a bizarre move by Boston and a risk-less and possibly benificial move by the jays. People are idiots /

    • You can have some of my tickets at cost if AA doesn’t do enough to improve the onfield product.

      Section 118 Row 23.

      Seroiusly though Grifin from the star is reporting that the Jays were fed up with Farrell’s lack of control over discipline.

      Apprently, Ricky Romero was unhappy with him for Farrell calling him out as the tough kid from east LA.

      • Ive read some of your comments today and I am embarrassed for you. This is a young up and coming team with lots of great young players to be excited about. They have two of the best hitters in the game and one of the top five best players in the MLB. They have so much to cheer for and its exciting ot watch them grow together, whether it works out or not. SO, excuse me if I find it just a little fucking sad that someone who can and does buy season tickets wants to throw them away because of a trade with a manager? A Manager ? Reminds me of Iverson’s Practice tirade. I personally cant even afford to go to one game a year and I know 10000 times more about baseball than you and it makes me a little sick.

        • when is the last time we’ve finished higher than 4th in our own division? 6 years ago. every year it is…we have such great young talent, we dont need to spend any money to be contenders, just give us time. well, i feel sorry for you for being naive and gullible. Rogers wont spend any money to make us a contender because they are cheap fucks. we need top tier starting pitching or this team will never be a contender.

        • Fully agree, there have been times when I have agreed with Oakville from time to time, but I think he is totally off his rocker on this issue. It’s a fucking non-issue, I would have been happy getting a box of kittens for John Farrell.

        • @confused

          Wait, what?

          I haven’t said anything against what happened in fact I’ve been in favour of it…

        • thank you … it seems pointless sometimes to post rational clear-headed arguments inside this volcano, but there is a silent majority here who appreciate it.

    • Well we’ve had almost twenty years of failure with this team so it’s kind of an excitable fan base right now. But in the long run whether we win or lose I doubt Farrell would have made any difference. And there are a bunch of Massholes who aren’t thrilled to see him back there as manager.

      I guess we will hear from AA sometime. Maybe.

    • Didn’t say he should be fired.

      All I say is that his lingerie is getting old and he needs tp get a stripper pole , cause this honeymoon way the fuck over. It’s time to shine.

  66. Does anyone else find it hilarious that the red sox want Farrell so bad? Have they not seen his trainwreck of a campaign in Toronto? I laughed at even the suggestion of Valentine last season before they signed him on but theyre treating it like farrell is going to save the franchise. lol well, more power to em, take him he is all yours now.

    As for compensation, Im reading all these people suggesting that fucking Ciriaco would be a good move. What the fuck are you morons smoking? Dude is a utility infielder on his absolute BEST DAY never mind fair compensation for a fucking manager inside the same division, give you heads a shake. Aviles would be a step in the right direction but certainly not if Adam Lind is going the other way (which he isnt by the way). I would suggest that Aviles AND Bard for Farrell be more appropriate if there’s a player going the other way. But if AA trades the fucking manager inside the division for Pedro fucking Ciriaco and his series of brand new flat billed hats, take AA and put him on the next plane out of town.

    I am glad to be rid of Farrell, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, his first year it was simply talent winning games not managerial decisions, and this season when he was faced with challenges and having less talent to work with thanks to AA and his complete lack of giving a fuck, Farrell bombed badly.

    So…. buh bye John, have fun with a rebuilding red sox team and dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.

  67. My initial reaction was that i’m annoyed that the Blue Jays are giant blubbering vaginas.

    Now that i’ve had time to wake up and have a smoke I’ve realized that Aviles is a decent return, a legit player who could help us next year if put in the right role.

    The real bad guy is here is John Farrell’s gaping asshole, and I will boo the fuck out of him and his family.

    • ^^^ THIS ^^^ minus the smoke… lol

    • This comment is bang on. We got a backup infielder much better than McCoy or Vizquel. Need filled. Next!

    • …will Jays fans at the Dome finally grow a pair and do an indecent (gasp!!…cover your ears kids) “Fuck You, Far-rell!” chant during the entirety of each game that he is present?

      Because he really is the gigantic asshole in this entire situation, wanting to bail LAST year as soon as his fucking “dream job” came up. Way to have no loyalty to the team that, oh, actually gave you a fucking chance to be an MLB manager in the first fucking place!

      ahhh…feel much better now…this has been on my chest for a couple of days…in case anybody wondered.

  68. I’m getting excited to see Aviles play 125 games at 2nd base for us …and he will reach base about 100 times all season.. JOY!

    • Don’t get too attached to Aviles. I can almost guarantee he’ll be a chip in a trade for something of real value.

      The Jays are not the pile of shit that people seem to think they have become. It was a rough season, but it’s in the rearview mirror now. We have 2 of the top 10 AL power hitters in our lineup in Bautista and EE. Morrow had a great season that could have been even better. The bullpen looks solidified for 2013.

      We already know what we need for 2013: 2 to 3 starters, a second baseman, 1B/DH and a LF.

      AA has done an above average job (see Wells, Halladay, etc) and now has an offseason to rebuild, spend some dough, and move the team forward. If he fucks it up, I’ll join the chorus of complainers at the end of May.

      • Why do people give AA so much credit for dumping Wells, do you really think he mind fucked Reagins into making the trade. The Angels saw some value for whatever reason, and a deal got done. There is no reason to say that Riccardi couldn’t pull off the same move.

        I don’t see Ben Cherrington being called a genius for dumping 3 contracts, because for whatever reason the Dodgers saw value in them.

        • He dumped a REALLY shitty contract and got Mike Napoli back in return. Were there other GMs lined up for Vernon Wells?

          We’ll have to agree to disagree.

        • lol, yeah that was one of AA’s best deals for sure. Wells has been one of the worst OF in baseball since the trade and is making $20+mil per year. wow what an incredible deal for the Jays!

          • It’s only a good deal if AA reinvests the 20 million per year.

            He spends 14 million on Bautista.

            Where’s the rest of the $$$$????

      • Which Bautista shows up in 2013??

        Wrist injuries can derail a career. See Overbay & Edwin 2009-2011

  69. This isn’t just about “value” in return for “just a manager. The Jays allowed Boston to bully them into getting what they wanted.

    This went on for over a year! The Jays didn’t need to implement a silly “no lateral moves” policy, they should have just told Boston to fuck off and filed a tampering complaint with MLB. End of story, no distraction in 2012.

    Instead they let this go on as Boston continued to bully and pester. Finally AA rolled over and gave Boston his lunch money, but it’s ok at least he got a fucking pencil in exchange.

    • You can see it that way, or you can see it as AA holding on to an asset until he knew what he had, and totally strung Boston along until he felt comfortable dropping his sad ass for a decent MAJOR LEAGUE BALL PLAYER.

      • a backup/substitute ball player. not much above replacement level. if you think this trade makes AA a ninja then your brain isnt much above replacment level either.

        • An actual MLB roster player (and an upgrade at that, over the Vizquel/McCoy shitshow) with some value is better than pitching prospect porn that so many people seem to want to have…seeing as how said PPP would be given a ticket for a direct flight to Dr. Andrews’ office for their pre-injury TJ surgery special for Jays pitchers (there goes 18 months of use of that player).

  70. It’s about fucking time this is over, either way.

    And those who are taking this hard, it’s just a fucking manager. Why are you upset?

    • We thought we had a serious baseball team. No way this team competes on a 85 million payroll with a kid way over his head managing a professional team.

      Eventually even the saber geeks will get fed up with the team.

      • As opposed to Farrell in over his head?

      • So who would be a better GM for TO than AA?

        Other than maybe Andrew Friedman, I’m sorry, any currently employed GM is pretty much a downgrade.

  71. Love seeing all the commenters.
    Love the passion guys.A lot of excellent points made on both sides.

    For the answer, ask yourself why?
    You don’t build championship teams without hard decisions.
    This may have been AA’s smartest and toughest move yet.
    It may show he’s got the balls to pull the trigger when neccessary.
    It’s business.

  72. The Jays need to do two things. First, bring back Cito. Cito is the missing link. Cito will know what to do. Cito. Second, the Blue Jays need to hire Omar Little and DeNiro’s crew from Heat to break into Camden Yards and steal the Orioles’ pixie dust, although it is possible that Barry Zito has already done this. Mike Aviles can be the unlikely wheelman for the Omar/Heat crew. This operation should be planned and overseen by Cito. Once we have Cito and the pixie dust, division titles, pennants, and championship banners are sure to follow.

  73. Im really hoping the jays will use aviles as a utility guy and not an everyday 2nd basemen. This team does not need another sub .300 obp guy in the lineup. Aviles would be a huge upgrade on mccoy/vizquel. As an everyday guy, hes probably slightly worse than johnson because he never walks. Still a little disappointed they couldnt get something better for farrell.

  74. somewhere in Toronto there is a happy PR consulting firm. The Jays are going to have to work really, really hard to spin this one in a positive manner.

    • +10

      This puts even more pressure on AA to get quality free agents.

      AA will be over 250 lbs by spring training from stress..

  75. BTW, the jays sent david carpenter to the sux. Pretty shitty pitcher from what I recall.

  76. Fuck, now the Jays give up David Carpenter? It’s now officially a lost trade.

    *rolls eyes*

  77. So we are giving up nothing Carpenter & Farrell for Aviles.

    That’s like trading a used pencil and a stick of gum for a Winger sticker

  78. Enough with all the macho “AA should have shown the Red Sox that he has a big dick” stuff. This move does not show the world that the Jays are a farm team for the rich teams. This move does not show that Anthopoulos is a pushover that has no negotiating skills. In fact, if we are to believe that AA was unhappy with Farrell, then what he did was actually a really strong move. He got rid of a manager that he was unhappy with and actually got something in return. In most cases when the GM is unhappy with a manager they fire him and get nothing. And I think it is insane to think that AA would ever have waited until the Red Sox hired a new manager and then fired Farrell. Just insane armchair GM bullshit.

    • he didnt get anything in return.. he used it as an excuse to get a shitty inflielder.. but still had to give up a fringe reliever back. dont cling to the notion that AA is consistently doing great things. He has only proved to be average with the ability to pull the trigger on moves that are no brainers.. we had terrible contracts which he unloaded to whomever was foolish enough to take a flyer on them. thats it. hes not special.

      • I’m not even really saying it was a great move. I’m not saying that anyone’s going to look back on this and say it really helped the team, I just think it was a strong move to get out of a kind of shitty situation without just firing the manager. I’m not really part of the “AA is a ninja” team, I just can’t get behind the idea that AA needed to not do this trade because somehow it makes the Red Sox look like big strong heroes and AA look like a wimp.

    • AA was willing to keep Farrell. Farrell wanted to go to a real team that had a chance to win.

      A is a little kid playing at the big boys table & looks like a fool.

      He had all season to talk to farrell about baserunning mistakes, Sierra’s glasses etc…

      The true story appears to be that Rogers wants to run a team on the cheap & puts out a friendly face to communicate like AA & Farrell.

      Farrell comes from a team with a winning tradition.

      AA likes to do minor upgrades, from 1 WAR players to 2 WAR players. He’s like those guys in Florida looking for loose change on the beach.

      Occasionally he gets lucky with Bautista & Edwin. Don’t forget AA’s got rid of Edwin twice, so its not like he knew for sure that edwin would turn into a great player.

  79. Hard to judge this trade until we know for sure who the Jays are sending back. Aviles is a ridiculous upgrade over Vizquel though.

  80. Why couldn’t it have been Andrew Carpenter. Why did we do the Astro trade, we were told they see David Carpenter has a strong bullpen piece for 2013…. wtf!

  81. Dammit. Count me among those who thought Carpenter had some potential as a reliever, even closer (or, so they said at the time of that trade).

    This is worse than having traded Lind IMO even though they have better bullpen arms. I’m getting just a little bit sick of the trades where the Jays have something in abundance and so move parts for relative little coming back. Lately it’s often resulting in these it’s “better to get something rather than nothing” trades instead of getting the best value back for the Jays’ assets. We seem to be in the business lately of trading upside for “proven depth” that isn’t really that good. I wouldn’t mind that if the foundation of the team were stronger, but it isn’t, yet.

    Alex has much to prove this winter.

    • looked like the jays were gonna drop him form the 40 man anyway. Don’t be too butthurt.

    • This isn’t a normal trade.
      It’s addition by subtraction.
      Farrell never had control of his players,didn’t take charge, had a static approach without thought to adjusting,couldn’t solve pitching woes with Ricky,etc.
      Did you think he could’ve managed the team to the WS?

      • So was Farrell responsible for Ricky’s career year last year? Or are managers superfluous? Can’t have it both ways.

        And addition by subtraction of Farrell plus a guy advertised as a potential closer not 4 months ago?

        I’m not seeing it.

        • No one said they were superfluous, but I will say that a Major League caliber ball player is a much more valuable commodity than a manager. The skill sets are not even comparable. There are a million “baseball people” out there that you can pay to manage and be the glue, but you can’t pull top tier athletes out of a hat.

        • Reading the the reports out of Boston ( and it’s not all positive) Farrell’s expected to respect the “sox way” and correct all the woes of the pitching staff.
          The addition by subtraction thing refers to: Farrell,IMO,doesn’t have the skill to manage a playoff team.Either tactically or personel wise.
          With Farrell gone the jays don’t need to waste another year and now get to aquire the guy they shoulda got in the first place.

          • The guy that they should have gotten, who has zero major league coaching experience, who could be marginally better or considerably worse than Farrell?

          • Yeah, that guy.

          • @RADAR

            I doubt the red sox will refuse to provide any solid players to help the red sox rebuild quickly.

            AA’s value village bargain hunting might be good for most of the posters here but it won’t work in the AL East unless the team has developed a super duper way of developing talent.

            The Snider fiasco shows how incompetent this team is at dealing with players with high ceilings.

            Farrell was an outsider & his loss is bad for the team.

    • If they bring back Lyon and Oliver they’re going to have a surplus very soon especially as some of other guys like Stroman and Stilson progress through the system not to mention the guys that are injured. Come July 31st of next year the Jays could actually be moving pen guys for help in other spots.

  82. I’m of the opinion that managers (especially someone as unproven as Farrell) aren’t that valuable and that getting Aviles was reasonable in the circumstances. However, I can’t lie and say I don’t feel a bit sick seeing this Farrell statement:

    “I’m extremely excited to be returning to the Red Sox and to Boston. I love this organization.”

    • LOL!.

      If managers dont mean much, why dont teams change them every couple of year. You ake it sound like management phiosophies are interchangeable. All players adjust to whatever philosophy the manager does.

      This is a bad day for jays fans.

      The manager is willing to go to a depleted red sox team rather than stay here & follow Rogers & AA.

      I am pretty sure Farrell thought this team had the resources to compete, but it doesn’t.

      Now on the discipline issue, it will be very interesting to see what happens.

      Farrell has more vets in Boston rather than the Jays, so maybe they will behave.

  83. Can we trade Damien Cox for something ?

  84. There are open spots on the 40-man and they traded prospects in the package that this guy came back on. And is that supposed to make us pleased that this guy we traded for is going to have to clear waivers and we might lose him? I seriously hope that Luhnow isn’t going to look smarter than AA after all this, but history says the Jays haven’t come out on top here.

    By the way, “Butthurt”? WTF, are we in 5th grade?

    I’m really curious to hear solid arguments for these latest decisions. Stoeten usually is capable of providing them. Commenters here aren’t making the case well.

    • Jim Briggs is a mad dude.

    • As I said above it depends on a lot of things. If they bring back Oliver and Lyon that gives you a pen of

      Janssen
      Santos
      Lyon
      Lincoln
      Delabar
      Loup
      Oliver

      You’ve got guys like Stroman, Jenkins and hopefully Happ (please not a starter) right behind that group. Throw in others like Perez, Hutchison and Drabek by the end of the year plus who ever else emerges from the farm system. You’ve got a surplus now. Carpenter is essentially a lottery ticket type player who has good stuff but poor control.

      • All awesome except Santos, Lyon, and Oliver are not coming back. So that kind of leaves you with four guys, all but one being crap. Now you have to fill that gap with more shit, probably Cecil, Dyson, and some other shitbag (maybe Jenkins, but I suspect he’ll be in the rotation as they aren’t going to do anything to improve that either).

        • Santos isn’t coming back? Really. As for Lyon or Oliver we’ll have to wait and see. Happ would fill Oliver’s spot just fine.

      • When’s Stroman’s 60 games up?

  85. The collective value of 30 MLB managers is a zero sum game.

    For example, let’s say 10 managers have positive value, 10 managers are neutral and 10 managers have negative value.

    I can’t see why anyone would believe that Farrell is in the first tier. He’s probably in the second tier or maybe even the third tier.

    So, at worst, the Jays traded a fringy 40 man member for a strong utility/low end regular.

    • Again I think it has very little to do with the on field situation as plenty of others have said. For me it’s the perception of the franchise that took the real hit. Obviously that’s going to be a very subjective viewpoint, but it’s no different that discussing any thing intangible.

  86. there is one angle that i haven’t heard mentioned that would make this entire situation much more palatable for jays customers.

    remember when the jays said that they were doing a review of how their pitchers were being handled after the rash of injuries? what if the conclusions of the investigation pointed right at Farrell?

    spring training drills, throwing on off days, etc. are all decided by the manager. sure the coaches do much of the leg work, but it all has to be okayed by the boss.

    i would really like to hear someone ask during AA’s upcoming media run the following… ” did the conclusions of your injury investigation factor in the decision to part ways with John Farrell?”

    • You’d have to get rid of all the pitching coaches as well. Also, what was Boston’s injury history with him as pitching coach? Worse than normal?

      • @ n_m – coaches do what the managers says. sure they discuss, but the boss has the final say.

        i’m not sure of the dynamic, who contributed what? i just want the question asked.

        in boston Farrell worked for Francona. Francona had the final say. as for the other coaches in toronto this year, all i know is that this point nobody has been offered a contract.

    • Nice one

    • Very interestig point.But why would a former pitching coach like farrell not know waht to do.

      • why do some CEO’s brought in to lead a company fail when they were successful before as a vice president somewhere else?

        situations are different. personal are different. especially when your dealing with an unnatural action like throwing a baseball at 95 mph. maybe he tried a tweak on something? maybe it was all the same stuff he did before but at different rate, or intensity? maybe it wasn’t explained properly?

        i don’t know the answers. but if this is part of the story this changes the entire story. i just want someone to ask the question in a way that AA will answer it.

  87. The way I see it jays look bad in the PR scheme to two camps, the fans, and free agents. Fans, the message is that the jays let boston treat them like there AAA team and to free agents, they see no manager, no direction a team that is in a pr spiral. If I am FA and you offer me few mill more even with W/L issues with the mess that is the Jays now, and the whole don’t go to Canada BS players will not be signing here.

    • +1.

      Farrell was a known quantity as a manager.

      A propspective free agent has to put up with a new manager,coaching staff etc…

      AA has managed to make the Jays the most dysfunctional team in the AL East.

      Maybe he can get a job with Loria & the Marlins.

      It’s baffling that all this communication between Farrell & AA & they still weren’t on the same page.

      • “AA has managed to make the Jays the most dysfunctional team in the AL East.”

        False.

        But nice try dipshit.

  88. GordonEdes Gordon Edes
    Farrell told blue jays gm alex anthopoulos few days after season that he wanted to pursue Sox opportunity–”dream job”

    • That’s a Freddy Krueger kind of dream job! Farrell will long for the Toronto media by the time April rolls around.

  89. I’m pining for Sandy Alomar now…

  90. can someone give me the 411 on Tim Wallach? Why does everybody almost hire him.

  91. #SalFasano

    • with my very limited information, i LOVE sal fasano

      • Me too. It must be the fu manchu…

        I also like that he has won an Eastern League title with some of the kids who make up the future of the jays.

        There’s just something about Sal.

  92. Maggie25 is right. This isn’t about being pushed around by Boston. This is about getting rid of someone you want to get rid of. If Boston thinks they got one over on us, the. They will probably discover their mistake around about the All-Star break if not before.

    If AA wanted to hang on to Farrell he would have extended his contract immediately the shit started to hit the fan in Boston in mid-August. That told me everything I wanted to know about how the GM felt about his manager. He did ok on the trade and he has gotten rid of a disloyal embarrassment that permanently had one for out the door.

    • Fuck the iPad keyboard.

      That weird sentence aboveshould read
      ‘If Boston think they got one over on us, they didn’t ‘

      • it is not about the message it sends to boston, it is about the message this sends to the casual fan who reads dick griffin, cathal kelly, bob elliot et, all. Make no mistake to the casual fan this will hurt the jays attendance tells the fans that the Jays are in a worse mess than the raptors and laughs.

        With Free agents it also tells the low iq players that the Jays are a mess.

        By no means am I saying I wanted to keep Farrell. Glad the guy is gone, however this is a bit of PR disaster for the jays as of late.

        • +1. Very true.

          Jays were the hip team in March with new uniforms, likeable players , smart manager etc….

          What’s the buzz for 2013???

          • I’m thinking the buzz will be that the retractable roof is working 100% again and will close properly when raining.

          • OH gee I don’t know, maybe the players? Bautista, EE, Rasmus, Lawrie, Morrow, a bunch of wicked rookies, Christ if you arent on board with this team I don’t know what it is you possibly want to see. A good young team being build patiently and with an eye to sustainability.

        • SO stupid reading it made my eyes hurty. A PR Disaster? No, having you player write ignorant words on his face is a PR disaster. Trading a coach for a player is a no risk no lose situation.

    • @Isabella.

      It’s possible that AA promised Farrell starting pitching in the offseason & at the All star break, but then couldn’t get deals done.

      Farrell got fed up with all the kids & broken promises , so he decided to go back to Boston.

      I hope the red sox implode in 2013, but I fel that the Jays are the bottom of the AL East in 2013.

      I doubt AA will be able to accomplish what he wants, but if he does, kudos to him…

      • “It’s possible that AA promised Farrell starting pitching in the offseason & at the All star break, but then couldn’t get deals done.

        Farrell got fed up with all the kids & broken promises , so he decided to go back to Boston.”

        Holy shit.

        This HAS to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen you type.

        You toss out something on which you have no idea, convince yourself it’s true, and make a ridiculous assumption based on your ignorant premise.

        For fuck sakes.

        • @jays 2010.

          Send your complaint to Stoeten & others in the media who made the same point that Farrell wanted starting pitching this year & AA couldn’t get him help.

          Problem got worse at the trade deadline with more relievers but only HAPP as a starter

          • Based on the press conference today, it sure seems like Farrell was on his way out the door as soon as Francona walked the plank in Boston. It had nothing to do with a lack of pitching help.

  93. The casual fan will forget about this as soon as AA makes an acquisition of significance. The first 3 weeks of April will be more important to attendance than what’s going on right now.

    On that note, @Oakville69, I’ll give you 80 cents on the dollar for any games you don’t want to see next year ;-)

    • @GSMC. Sorry. you can have the tickets at cost. I wont take a loss.

      Look, I hope AA makes some upgrades to the team.

      However, it is sad that he couldn’t even convince his own manager to believe in his plan.

      If Farrell is willing to go back to a depleted Red Sox team, that tells me that Rogers has a big problem.

      Rogers controls most of the baseball media here so they can expct a favourable review & blame farrell for poor discipline. OK, but where was AA??

      It’s not like this chaos started in August.

      AA talks a good game but he should have been able to get more back than a utility infielder.

      • I may take you up on a couple of games once the season starts!

        As for the rest of the shit, I’m going to stay patient and wait to see what transpires this winter. I didn’t think we were that far off going into 2012, and I still think we’re on the cusp of something good. The Jays teams in the mid to late ’80s took years to build. They used to call Gillick “Stand Pat” because of his apparent inability to pull the trigger on the big deals. We ended up with back to back championships and were contenders from ’85 and on. I’m not saying AA is Pat Gillick, but he hasn’t done anything that makes me think he’s useless.

        • @GSMC.

          No problem. I am in full vent mode this weekend, but I hope AA finds a way to fix this mess. Rogers can help him by giving him extra money to get some decent players here by trades, taking bad contracts like Mark Teahan etc…

        • +1

      • Dude you are wrong, and this is fact, not opinion. The Red Sox are a storied franchise and their current record is irrelevent when considering them as a “dream job” . As for what AA could have got back, you are either severly uninformed or just being intentionally obtuse. There is no way the Red Sox where ever going to give back a good player in exchange for a manager. Aviles from what I know about him will make a solid bench player. Thats gonna get you more wins than a manager who wasnt really good or bad.

  94. Because when there’s a manager out there who led a team to 73 wins that had myriad issues, you go all out to hire him! The Myth of John Farrell has people believing he’s actually accomplished something.

    • He’s been really good at talking around in circles without actually saying anything of significance. Throw in a few big words and that leads the casual observer to conclude that Farrell is a smart guy, even though his decision making has been questionable at best. I for one am not sad to see him go. I’ll wait to see what the off-season brings before declaring that the sky is falling.

      • That sounds exactly like AA. Those two are good about talking, but Farrell deserved to have a proper pitching staff.

        I am curious if fFarrell will use an 8 man bullpen in Boston??

        • People around baseball consider AA a top 5 GM for a reason…that has nothing to do with his speaking skills.

    • Luckily the Jays were willing to bend over and take a AAAA player, so going all out wasn`t really required.

  95. “Playoff Threat” for tonight’s game is posted at the Getting Blanked Podcast thread, so you don’t have to sift through 600 comments.

    • Thanks for the heads up.

    • I second that emotion. Let’s take ‘Getting Spanked’ out for a test drive, and end up in the ditch. birddawg can bite the tires. Be there or be square. (Pocket protectors optional.)

      • SP we’re not hanging out in getting spanked but the podcast thread from Friday. Don’t get lost on us. We got line ups and everything. Don’t go over to the dark side.

  96. AA is reported as saying Farrell approached him after Thangsgiving and told him Boston was his ‘dream job’. And he wanted out. AA basically said he allowed his skipper to pursue his dream. If you guys believe that AA is the patron saint of graciousness, I have property to sell you in the Florida Everglades. I’m sure he was glad to be rid of him. And I’m equally sure that more and more bad stories are going to come out of the woodwork as the days unfold. AA won’t have a sense of humor about this. From his point of view, the Jays should be a dream job. So reading between the lines, old’ Tin Ear Farrell managed to say the wrong thing again.

    Boy am I glad he’s gone!

    • @ dIsabella.

      Disagree. Why is it OK for AA & the media to get leaks of an unruly clubhouse, Farrell out of control etc..
      I am sure Zaun Cherry & Wilner will be busy with new rumors about farrell.

      Problem is AA had 2 years to tell farrell to get he clubhouse under control or bench layers etc…

      • Too many spelling mistakes.

        I assume AA knew the clubhouse was out of control, so why didn’t he tell Farrell to bench players etc….

  97. Our starters broke down under Farrell, and IMO he was overrated to begin with. No question he wouldn’t have made it through next season.

    Still, we should have exploited Boston’s obvious hard on for him. I agree that this deal makes us look weak.

    Sal Fucking Fasano or bust.

    • I like Fasano, but I like Lovullo and Sandy Alomar too.

    • That’s the point. Everyone here FAPS over AA, yet he was given an amazing poker hand & he folded.

      Bottom Line is AA is weak. He could have told Farrell that he can join the Red Sox in 2014.

      If Farrell doesn’t like it, he can go home to Cleveland for no pay in 2013 & wait it out.

      AA likes to pretend they go out of their way to be nice to disabled players like litsch,Mcgowan etc to build a good reputation in the MLB, but they are the patsies of the MLB.

      Frankly, this team should be a target for anyone who wants Bautista or Edwin. or Morrow.

  98. The Blue Jays are a joke.

    Keep supporting this laughing stock while Rogers robs you blind.

  99. I havnt seen so many people bitch about something so insignificant since the Leafs had a controversy with a goalie coach.

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