The long saga has finally ended, and John Farrell is back where he always wanted to be– something I didn’t always believe to be the case– and back with the organization that, stunningly, “helped set up the difficult radiation treatment for Farrell’s son Luke last Fall in Boston that was thankfully successful and sees Luke back in school and pitching again at Northwestern University,” according to an excellent grope around the cold grey murk of this failed relationship– this challenge one part slithered away from, one part reset by Jays’ management– from Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star.

There’s a lot to digest here, as Farrell returns to Boston, potentially taking a big chunk of the coaching staff with him– Brian Butterfield, although having preceded Farrell in Toronto, is a New Englander who may jump at the opportunity, if extended, and Torey Lovullo, ex-manager of the PawSox who was hand-picked by Farrell to join him here, could also leave, provided the Jays don’t offer him their now vacant managerial position.

Like most aspect of the story, there’s good and bad that may come with additional departures.

On one hand, it would especially hurt to lose the well-liked, respected, hard-working Butterfield, who has a reputation as an excellent infield instructor and was viewed as the brains behind the club’s defensive shifts this season, which for a long while seemed to work to great effect. Lovullo or Wakamatsu may both be excellent managerial candidates in their own right.

Personally, though, I’m kinda partial to the sabermetrically-inclined, Expos-connected Manny Acta, as I was mentioning last night on Twitter, passing along these two posts about him, and noting that his Cleveland team in 2012 had just 17 sacrifice bunts, nine fewer than the next lowest in the Majors. And that gets to the other side of the equation, which is, if you’re losing Farrell and maybe more, why be half-assed about cleaning house?

The Jays know more about it than we do, but as we’ve been hearing for months now, there are a number of reasons to think that something hasn’t been right in their clubhouse. Griffin points out several issues in his piece, including– along with the ones we all already know– the fact that Ricky Romero appeared to not take kindly to Farrell’s handling of him and his seemingly unfixable struggles, especially the public side of all that.

Interestingly, at one point in their breakdown of the transaction, the Kirk Minihane, Rob Sheppard, and Rob Bradford of Boston’s WEEI suggested that Ricky Romero’s problems may have been related to the fact that he didn’t come to camp in shape– something I’ve heard suggested by others this year, though also refuted. Personally, after having looked at pictures of a similarly-posed Romero in 2012, 2011 and also 2010, I don’t really see it. Yet one of the guys on the WEEI round-table believed Romero’s alleged weight gain was real, and wondered if Farrell “left his cowboy hat in Boston,” surprised that the Jays’ Opening Day starter wasn’t afraid of Farrell, the way that Clay Buchholz and other Boston pitchers had been afraid of him as pitching coach.

It’s an excellent question, and this lack of fear quite obviously might extend to a lot of Jays players. Yet, easy as it would be to view such indiscipline– if it’s even a real thing– or Brett Lawrie’s pig-headed bullshit, or whatever else we may have been seeing, as an indictment of the coaching regime, it would seem entirely plausible to me, as much as I’d hate to live in such a world, that Gregg Zaun could possibly be right when he shits on Rogers and the Jays for having separate rules for the darlings of the marketing campaigns, and the still believed-in first-round picks, and all the other scums on the roster.

These are the kinds of central questions, I think, that need to be asked in the wake of this mess, and as we move on and clean up from whatever took place at the end of Farrell’s tenure– not the bullshit about tampering, or being a small-time feeder organization, or even whether the Jays received adequate compensation, but how best to move forward and make it better, and how the Red Sox, for all their warts, bullshit and many challenges, may actually be viewed as straight-up better people to work for.

That ought to concern us, in much the same way that we’re concerned that the club’s rash of pitching injuries may have had their root in something systemic, and much more so than the loss of a manager– an employee whose value was deemed to be somewhere in the sub-Mike Aviles range. After all, Farrell was working a position so inconsequential in the grand scheme of a baseball team that even, with the writing surely on the wall, the Jays allowed this process to play out as long as it did, extracting whatever they could from Boston for him, rather than acting quickly to ditch Farrell and jump at the chance to hire someone like Terry Francona, who agreed to be Cleveland’s new manager early in the off-season– a theoretical possibility, and perhaps tempting, if they really believed in the fierce, mystical power of a supposedly-great Big League manager. Yet, if the consensus best manager available isn’t worth passing up a Mike Aviles-sized return to try and snag, I think it tells us a lot about how overvalued the position is in most of the chatter about it.

Anthopoulos claims that until about two weeks ago he felt Farrell would be his manager for 2013, and that he was disappointed with some of the “gamesmanship” coming from the other side in this process, shrugging off reports of clashes with his manager, or a relationship that had badly soured. Farrell, the GM told reporters, informed the club that managing in Boston was his “dream job” and the Jays claim they decided to not stand in his way. Yet it’s difficult to take that comment seriously, given how conveniently it casts both the Jays and Farrell in about as good a light as possible here, and given what we’ve seen and heard regarding the apparent disconnect between the two men.

Never was this disconnect more publicly evident than at the press conference following Yunel Escobar’s suspension, where the manager’s messaging failed to harmonize with the entirely-sensible bit of “teachable moment” PR cover the GM put forward. And while the rumours about a rift over Omar Vizquel’s role with the club may or may not be true, the way that the GM’s hand-picked veteran leader self-servingly threw the coaching staff under the bus at season’s end couldn’t possibly have sat well in either the front office or the dugout.

It was also telling that late in the season, pressed on the “lame duck” question, Anthopoulos gave an unorthodox explanation of how employee contracts work, suggesting that they don’t offer job security– they only set the employee’s rate of pay, and as such, the fact that Farrell’s deal was expiring was irrelevant.

Sure, the Red Sox, via their local media, seemed to be trying make it as difficult as possible for the Jays to bring Farrell back, but as Anthopoulos demonstrated with his remarks, he likely would have been able to talk his way out of whatever hole he’d been dragged into, assuming he actually wanted to. And if he really wanted to, he could have stopped this whole thing in its tracks, as he demonstrated was possible last year.

In the Globe and Mail, Jeff Blair scoffs at that notion– and at the compensation received– asking rhetorically, “would you want a guy managing your team after hearing his dream job was with one of your arch-rivals?”

Well, I’m pretty sure the Jays have employed Brian Butterfield for quite a long time, knowing full-well about his open love for, and long connection to the New York Yankees. I think it’s a safe assumption that’d be his dream job, and… well… wouldn’t the whole world grind to a fucking halt if everybody not working at his or her dream job suddenly became unemployable? I mean, what kind of a lazy canard is this?

“Really,” he then asks, “a week of negotiating to get Mike Aviles?”

Well… yeah.

Aviles fills a basic need for the Jays and is cheap. No, he’s not some kind of otherworldly piece, but the market for middle infielders this winter is threadbare, and Aviles is a player who could theoretically play second base for the club next season, better still in a platoon (are you listening, Adam Kennedy?), or better still as a straight-up utility guy. He gives the club an extra bit of flexibility to move Yunel Escobar or Adeiny Hechavarria, which could help them address an even bigger need, or he may even have value on his own– look at the recent deal involving Cliff Pennington before you scoff.

That’s not a nothing piece, and while a good manager isn’t nothing either, the difference between whatever Farrell was and whatever his replacement will be simply cannot be more than marginal, at best– and I’m sorry, Baltimore fans, but if your magic run this year was more about a club being brilliantly “managed up” than simply falling ass-backwards into good luck, don’t you think the Yankees or the Rangers or the Diamondbacks might have kept Buck Showalter around longer during his stints there?

In other words: this transaction is a win for the Jays, and a somewhat self-fulfilling one. Again, the club didn’t in any way have to give Farrell up if they really wanted to retain him, meaning their willingness to do so alone indicates a dissatisfaction with him. Getting an actual roster player who may help facilitate a deal that impacts the club even more positively? That’s some sweet, delicious gravy.

Oh, sure, a number of the local hacks are already full-throated in their bleating about the nasty optics of the whole affair– Parkes takes a pair of the worst offenders to task over at Getting Blanked– and, frankly, I couldn’t sit here and attempt to honestly deny that it isn’t somewhat bad for the club to appear at the moment to be on the losing end of this tug-of-war (even though I would certainly argue that they’re not), but the whole bloody thing is pretty ridiculously inconsequential.

There’s an elephant in the room whenever anyone lets shit dribble out of their mouth about how harmful this is to the Jays’ brand, or what a public relations disaster it must be: the fact that the transactions that will take place– or fail to take place– the next two months are so infinitely more crucial to the team and the brand that there is no earthly way a poorly-received end to the Farrell saga registers even a blip on the radar of most fans by the time all is said and done.

We can waste words on what it means right now if we really want to– I mean, it’s not like anyone would rather examine the pros and cons of the Bobby Wilson acquisition, and subsequent Chad Beck D’ing FA, right?– but what is going to colour our view of this off-season when we ultimately look back on it in March and April sure as shit isn’t going to be whatever the fuck happened here with Farrell.

If the club adds some legitimate pieces to the big league roster over the winter and looks like a legitimate contender, all is forgiven– water under the bridge. If they don’t, nobody is going to be pointing to the loss of a manager as anywhere close to the most egregious thing that Rogers and the Jays laid on us or the 2013 version of the club.

When you get right down to it, it really just doesn’t matter very much. And I’ll say it again: not that I discount all of the other things that Farrell may have brought to the table, but I’m fucking thrilled that we’ll be seeing someone else pulling the strings on the in-game stuff next year. Anybody else. Y’know… except Jim Tracy.

Comments (197)

  1. + 1

  2. …except Jim Tracy OR Bobby Valentine.

    • Another me? WTF? Impostor, admirer, or just sheer coincidence?

      Agree with the sentiment though.

    • What’s wrong with Bobby V? He invented the wrap!

      All kidding aside, Bobby HAS been successful in a lot of places. Its not necessarily his fault that all the Sox players were entitled, overpaid pricks. Plus, it would piss them off so much. So Much.

      • Um… I don’t think it would piss them off at all.

        • Why not? The Jays are pretty much guaranteed to be better this year than last and also to be better than the Sox. If we did that with Bobby V can’t you already read the Globe headline from the day after the Red Sox run into six double plays?

          Honestly though, who cares who manages (Jim Tracy excepted). Let’s go get some pitching!

          • Pretty much guaranteed to be better next year? Say’s who?

          • I would have expected a severe rebuke on bringing Valantine here. This is not a manager you want. This guy has not ever produced a winner, not even close! Bobby thinks he’s pretty special, but please retire gracefully sir, while there is still a couple of folks who think you can manage

          • I guess technically the Mets weren’t a ‘winner’ but you’d have to use a pretty narrow definition of ‘close’ to win that argument.

            Unless you meant division titles, in which case congratulations on becoming the mayor of semanticsville.

          • Winning only means one thing – winner – there is but 1

          • Pretty much guaranteed to be better next year? With Rogers recent record of cost savings and penny pinching that is a foolish statement. With payroll at 75 million they would need to jump up to a minimum of 110-120 million to acquire two top of the rotation starters , a left fielder and a couple bullpen arms. Never going to happen! Look forward to more signings of other people’s cast offs and low budget arms hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. I would be surprised if payroll rose to 90 mil. That’s 15m you ain’t getting shit for that

      • define success?

        if winning record = success then yah.

      • Maybe we should hire Jason Varitek.

  3. Agreed across the board. Glad to see you chirp the Orioles as well.

  4. Francona had connections to Antonetti and co. the same way Farrell has connections to the Sox. And the guys out there with connections to the Jays? If the cards settle on Acta or Alomar, this whole charade looks more like a three-way managerial merry-go-round spread over a year-and-a-half, with Bobby V jumping out as the only true lame-duck, than any sort of raping and pillaging on the part of Boston.

    (Not that that means Farrell won’t or shouldn’t get booed the shit out of next April, of course.)

  5. For all the talk about Butterfield managing the Jays over the last 6-7 years, have any other teams ever actually interviewed him?

    Manny Acta may be a fave of the online fans since he likes advanced stats, but let’s not ignore the fact that Acta has now washed out of two managing jobs in less than six years.

  6. Listenen to the podcast before. Jim Tracy aint comin but if he does im with ya Stoeten! However, if Farrells loyalty lies with what the Bosox done for his son,Good on you John Farrell and a big fuck you to the Sox and the Jays. The Sox done it to keep him in the team and rogers are a bunch of DICKS.

  7. You nailed it again Stoeten

    • Yeah, Stoeten, I think you got my sentiments down perfectly. Mike Aviles is not going to win a gold glove, or a silver slugger, or make an all-star team. But as a utility infielder, he is an upgrade over Vizquel and McCoy.

      For me, this whole scenario still means that the Jays need to address the middle infield situation by the next trade deadline season. One option is to see Aviles slot into 2B to give more time for Hech to show what he can do in a more neutral park environment in AAA Buffalo. Or, Aviles could slot into the 2B position with Hech promoted at SS if Escobar is traded for pitching. Regardless, the real cost was losing a manager who didn’t have his heart set on Toronto, and a fringe reliever in Carpenter whose destiny was a DFA notice in his locker.

      The only big downside is how the league, and more importantly, free agents perceive what went down in Toronto. How does the whole Farrell shit show affect perception? Maybe in the end, it doesn’t matter, so long as the money is there right?

      As for AA’s managerial search, many mention Brad Ausmus as being a front runner. Apparently, Boston liked him. What does hurt is seeing the potential departure of guys like Butterfield. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Walton go also.

      One thing that does come to mind with Farrell is how he managed the pitching staff. Is it just me or am I imagining that he somehow over-worked his young starters? I haven’t looked at any numbers or stats, its just a casual observation. But one does wonder if Farrell might have stretched the limits with Drabek and especially Hutchison.

  8. I wonder if sandy alomar jr will think its his dream job in Cleveland if they fire terry

  9. I really want to read this article but I can’t get past the first sentence slash paragraph. What does the part about challenges and slithering mean? Does it refer to the failed relationship – Farrell slithered away, Jays management reset? Was it supposed to say party, instead of part?

    Fuck I’m more confused than that time we traded away our manager to a division rival for a replacement level infielder.

  10. Isn’t it just logical to think that Farrell wanted to go back to boston only because he knew that he would be extended//work for longer??

    Going in to 2013 with 1 year remaining, if things didn’t go well for the team, and boston brought in a new manager, his outlook on finding work would be slim.

    Its just a matter of him looking out for himself and going where he was going to work, it clearly wasn’t here as AA didn’t give him an extension.

    • Yep.

    • As a successful pitching coach I kind of find that one hard to believe. He’d get a job for sure doing that at the very least. Besides I highly doubt he’s actually hurting for money.

      That said, I’m more in the camp of it being the best fit for him and his family. For guys that aren’t hurting financially that’s usually the next best thing they look for.

      • but he doesn’t want to be a pitching coach, he wants to be a manager.

        and he made a decision and forced the jays hand to ensure that he’s atleast a manager for 3 more years.

        • Well that’s your take on it I suppose and none of us will really know his reasons. To me he got his cake and then got to eat it by getting the Boston job. Security while nice. is just a bonus when you can still have a job and be near your family. All I know is that it’s something we’ve heard from a lot of players and their wives over the years.

          Darren Oliver is a perfect example of it. $4 million or spending more time with the family? Sounds like he is leaning, at least right now, to the family option. Now if he had a chance to pitch in his home town would he be more likely to keep playing where his kids are? I’d say probably.

          • or you’re just making stuff up for the sake of it

            Farrell and his family live in westlake ohio. which is just over 5 hours from toronto… and 11 hours driving from boston.

            so really not sure how you got it in your head that farrell and his fam reside in boston.

          • Didnt i read somewhere he has a house in Boston as well as the house in Ohio?

          • oh wait weren’ t you the dipshit who said everyone was making shit up about oliver leaving? Glad you’ve admitted you are a troll.

          • +1. Bob Elliott reported he has a house in Boston.

            When he was hired, he said he lived in Cleveland in the off season.

            He must have rented a house or condo while he was in Toronto

          • Are you guys twelve?
            With his record in Toronto, Farrell would’ve taken a job managing in Pittsburgh if it was offered; he was most likely done in here.
            As it was, he had an opportunity to go to Boston, a rich organization with a deep fan base. Who turns down more money?

    • I am sure he got a massive raise as well

    • Guy never made any big money as a player. How could anybody begrudge the man going somewhere with long term job security?!

  11. I never understood the attraction of Acta, I get that he’s into stats and stuff, but he’s been fired in-season twice in the last few years. Anyways, I’m not totally against the guy either, thanks for the link, good read.

    Acta, Wallach, Hale, Lovullo, Fasano and Ausmus seem to be some of the names being thrown around by writers and fans alike. I wonder who else might be considered, Tony Pena perhaps? What’s Ken Macha doing these days? Maybe the Jays clean house? So exciting!

    • most managers are fired. not sure that should stop the jays from hiring someone

    • If we’re all into the manager doesn’t mean that much to what takes place on the field thing, and I am one of them, then their records have a lot more to do with the job the GM and Ownership Group do in obtaining the talent.

      That’s why I find it so laughable that Farrell gets shit on so much for his record this year. The fact is, the Jays payroll is near the bottom of the league and there was little to no depth to cover for the huge amount of injuries. It was unfortunate that a lot of the best prospects weren’t ready or in d’Arnaud’s case injured.

      People can talk all the want about the base running gaffes but that’s just a small issue in the grand scheme of things. Having a team ERA of 4.64 goes a lot further in explaining their lousy record than someone making a stupid out here or there even if it’s at third base.

    • I suspect AA will try to hire Sandy Alomar JR. The Jays seem to need help controlling the Latinos including Bautista,Escobar etc, Sierra…

      • I never understood the concept of his magical guy we seem to always be on the lookout for to “control the Latinos.”

    • Joe Torre and Terry Francona had some pretty awful early managerial experiences did they not?

      • True, but Torre and Francona really turned their managerial careers around when they started managing high-payroll, talent-filled teams in New York and Boston respectively. Grady Little took the BoSox to Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003, trusted Pedro to get out of a jam (which he didn’t), was much maligned by Massholes, and didn’t get his contract renewed a few weeks later. The next year Francona guided Boston to a World Series with pretty much the same team. So how much credit do they deserve for their team’s successes?

        I’m not saying Acta’s a bad manager, just that he’s never really finished out a contract. Maybe Acta didn’t get enough time to install his own way of doing things, “his system” so to speak, or maybe he rubs front offices the wrong way. Maybe he’s just been in charge of shit teams and has taken a few hits as a result. What I mean to say is that I didn’t know too much about the guy before reading the linked article (and a couple more later), but my opinion of him has changed a bit since my earlier post.

        • Re: Torre & Francona. Not saying they did nothing, but they came in to manage playoff calibre teams. Perhaps they added an extra element that helped take them the extra mile, but it’s not like those teams were bottom feeders being built up from nothing.

  12. I’m just glad this shit is over. Hopefully there will be a new manager in place before the WS ends so the front office can focus on signing actual players!

  13. I’m just glad this shit is over. Hopefully there will be a new manager in place before the WS ends so the front office can focus on signing actual players!

  14. Ladies and gentlemen, meet your Toronto Expos, where even the manager treats the team as a stepping stone to a better career.

  15. Nails, Stoeten.

    It really doesn’t matter that much.

    Mike Aviles isn’t sexy but he certainly isn’t nothing.

    Sandy or Sal or bust.

  16. Exceptional article Stoeten.

    This is just a story until (hopefully) the winter acquisitions are a story.

    I realize there is a PR aspect and the Jays certainly do not come off well. But…

    We have seen Farrell for 2 years and aside from his interactions with the media, I saw nothing that would lead me to believe he will be an elite-level manager. At best, he’s somewhere in the middle pack which doesn’t really make a team better or worse.

    So why not see if someone new CAN be positively impactful. I’m with you, go for Acta. And wrap all this up by the end of the World Series so the focus can be on player acquisitions.

    • +1

      Only I hope this story dies as soon as the next manager is hired. I am tired of picking at this so-called scab. Can we start looking ahead to 2013? I’m more concerned about whether Choo leads off, if Ortiz, Bautista and EE each hit 35 bombs, and whether Morrow or Price is the opening day starter.

      Enough with the doom and gloom. Winter is long enough as it is.

  17. Lost in all this is the logic in Boston.

    a) Fire Tito, a ‘players manager’ and smear him on the way out as a drug addict.
    b) Hire a notorious old-school bully to ‘clean up’ the beer and wings.
    c) Old school bully clusterfucks. Team rebels, half team traded. Finish last
    d) Hire ‘Tito lite’, a players’ manager who was instrumental in the coaching staff you fired a year ago, after leaking and smearing and whispering for six months

    Fuckit, there;s so much talent and money they’ll still probably rebound and make the playoffs next year, with Farrell as ‘manager of the year’, but you have wonder if it’s not Toronto that’s the team with systemic problems here.

    • If Farrell leads the red sox to an 85 win season next year, he will hailed as a success.

      Watching the red sox offseason will be fun.

      I wonder if they will end up targetting some of the players that AA wanted??

      • Even though, you know, his record will have A LOT more to do with what Cherington can give him than whether or not he improves his bullpen manages and stops trying to have an “uncomfortable” offence.

    • I wouldn’t pick Boston to make the playoffs next year, assuming they don’t go out and get 2,3,4 big new names. Hell based off of the current rosters (I know they will change) I would probably pick Boston to finish last in the AL east again.

      • no chance. They didn’t clear all that payroll to sit on the dough. Josh Hamilton will hit 60 homeruns for them next year and they’ll make the playoffs.

  18. Funny. I thought the elephant in the room was Showalter and the proof that managers are marginal because they get fired at some point. That somehow if showalter was that good he would have been kept. Damn shame then about bobby cox being fired by the jays – or does that prove managers are marginal or that teams can get it wrong? My head hurts with the circularity of the argument.

  19. Interesting note: I have yet to see a single Non-Toronto based journalist say anything about how this looks bad on the Bluejays organization.

    Implication: 1) Maybe it’s just not a big deal.. or 2) Maybe no one gives a shit.

  20. I’ve been amusing myself watching this cherade for awhile now. As I said in a post a couple of weeks ago ( before getting lost in Nashville for awhile) I was ambivalent on him whether he stayed or not and while I developed fukstik categories for players I never thought I would need one so soon for the manager, but indeed, he was on the verge of becoming a fukstik for he has had 2 crappy seasons in a row with little chance of getting better. some will say he gets a pass because of the injuries.. and yeah to some extent but remember on June 11 when they had a full complement they were still only playing .500 ball in the easy part of their schedule ( hell they didn’t even vist NYC til after the all satr break!). Farrell did not seem to lite a fire with this team.
    And really, One thing that did piss me off about John is as someone else said. he was like a Hollywood manager….could talk well, acted the part but the passion was missing. How many times this year were the Jays the recipient of a bonehead call by the umps and all John did was go out there for a little fireside chat and return to the dugout. NO passion!! Every once and awile u have to lose it on the umps so the next call goes in your favor ( works in NY every time). Not John who seemed too politically correct to me.
    Anyway he likely w/h been a fukstik by April 30 and we would have likely let him expire next year anyway.
    The optics don’t look good but at least we got a serviceable MLB player. Hopefully the next one is competent and w/b nice if they spoke spanish to lessen confusion with the latin brigade.
    Now, I just hope AA gets the new mgr soon as free agents like to know who they are playing for and as I have said b4, AA must make a splash this offseason to keep the MOMO going from last year, some of which they have destroyed over the last 6 weeks and they need to do at least one thing major to get that momo going again and forget about Farrell- as we used to say in business-basically a “bad hire”.
    However, if they try to fool the fans again ( apoligies to The WHO), with abunch of pissy marginal acquistions like Bobby Wilson or Cory Fuckin nWade et al and trying to portray it as positive then we become the Pittsburgh Pirates north. I will wait some more bfore judgement is rendered but they got work to do. No one is interested anymore in the fuckin Corderos or Kelly Johnson’s of the world

    • +1.

      It was discouraging to hear prop up Aviles like he is the second coming of Marco Scutaro.

      Kelly F…g Johnson had a higher OBP than Aviles who lost his job in september on a disastrous red sox team.

      AA says pitching is the number problem & he gets a Mike Mccoy wannabe with a bit of pop?

      • He’s quite an upgrade on Mike McCoy, even though you would have gotten Clay Buchholz in your past life as GM.

  21. “If they don’t, nobody is going to be pointing to the loss of a manager as anywhere close to the most egregious thing that Rogers and the Jays laid on us or the 2013 version of the club. When you get right down to it, it really just doesn’t matter very much.”

    In and of itself, the loss of Farrell is no big deal and the offseason signings or trades, or lack thereof, will be what fans judge this team. But, the optics of the loss of Farrell – regardles of his value – are meaningful to the fan base and when coupled with the disaster of a season, injuries, poor performance, etc. – the fan base will be anxious and down on the team’s future prospects.

    As an aside, its unbelievable that the team, which has a 35 year history, has only had 2 managers in its history that had any experience when hired (Bobby Cox and Jim Fregosi – Cito would be 3rd when he came back but he originally started with the team). And, only 1 manager I believe has ever got a job as a manager after he left the Jays (Bobby Cox ). Maybe there is something to be said for the fact that becoming the Jays manager is a career ending move.

    • Jimy Williams managed Boston and Houston after Toronto, for some reason.

    • Bony cox left to become a GM. And Jimy Williams was the last Jays coach to manage elsewhere after leaving the Tdot.

  22. Some observations:
    1) Farrell and Carpenter for Aviles and Alomar Jr or Acta. Umm, we win

    2) This offseason will be the defining moment for AA and ultimately whether the Jays turn the corner as a franchise or not

    3) Go make David Ortiz a strong 2 year offer. Make Boston overpay to keep him and show them you mean business. They either overpay to keep him or he bats between Bautista and EE. I see nothing wrong here.

    4) I heard the local sports guy on our radio broadcast legitimately suggest we hire Cito Gaston back. You’ve all been warned…….

    • Something is wrong with this organization, Cito’s departure was a disgrace – he deserved better than the mutiny he received from the players. Now Farrell, not once, but twice, tries to leave. As a fan it could appear he could not gain control of the circus in the clubhouse and so now he’s gone.
      OK so who wants; to apply for the vacant job?
      Yep, its a clown question bro!

      • +1. If I recall correctly there was a clubhouse revolt among players in the last week.

        Beeston wanted to save Cito’s reputation, so he fired JP Riccardi who was on his way out anyway.

        Beeston wasted the first year of the rebuild , so AA was stuck with Cito & a rebuilding team.

        Cito was good with young prospects, so Snider floundered.

        AA should have been given a chance to hire his own manager in October 2009.

        • Wrong.
          They brought in Cito to try and bring back a pro attitude in the dressing room, some old-school class and get-it-doneness.
          Unfortunately, AA is a new generation turk who doesn’t understand that a 25-man squad needs to have the mental makeup and chemistry to succeed over 162+ games, he stuck Cito with some straight up bitches and then tried to tell him how to do his job.
          AA builds his team like he’s running a fucking grocery store, Cito decided he was too old for this shit and bowed out like the standup pro that he always has been and always will be.

    • Pretty sure teams have exclusive negotiating rights with players leaving as FAs for a couple weeks after the end of the season. Jays couldn’t offer Ortiz anything right now.

  23. My biggest concern about this whole deal is that AA will now be spending his time looking for a manager instead of solidifying his rotation. I remember the agony of the last search.

    Unless of course, AA already has Farrell’s replacement lined up…

    • I wish Fangraphs had a stat measuring amount of time spent searching for a manager versus how long said manager actually sticks around.

      That’s honestly what I don’t get. AA spent FOREVER on the last search because he wanted someone long term. Did it just never come up in his conversations with Farrell that all he’s ever wanted to do (apparently) is manage the Sox? Just a weird, weird saga that reflects especially badly on Farrell IMO given the circumstances of his hiring.

      And, yes, I will be booing him, as will many others. You want to just do the righteous outrage post now Stoeten, or save it for the moment? You’re right, probably more gravitas if you do it then.

      • +1. It’s hilarious to hear the new MEME from the media & bloggers that Managers don’t matter.

        If that’s the case, why did AA do an exhaustive search for a year to find Farrell?

        Why aren’t managers being flipped every year for utility infielders with a 282 OBP?

        The SPIN that the media & team is putting out is remarkable.

        The best nugget out of AA’s discussion with Mccowan tonight on PTS was that the discussions were primarily handled betwen Beeston & the Boston Owners.

        It looks like AA had little input into selecting Aviles as compensation.

        AA also took a shot at the”Rogers apologists” / fans who are happy with a 73 win season & use injury excuses.

        • Haven’t you found a new sports team to whine about yet?

          • LOL.

            AA tells Mccowan that the fans that don’t complain about a 73 win season aren’t normal.

        • The new moneyball: hire marginal managers and flip them a year later for bench players

        • I guess Oakville will double up posts here until the NHL lockout is resolved and Montreal and compete for the 1st overall draft pick.

          • Don’t give hardheaded ideas. He’s the third person to use the market inefficiency joke. I was really proud of that post since we had put a pig on a spit and emptied a keg to watch it cook, but now it’s being recycled endlessly.

            Since there’s no chance that anyone is as or more clever than my drunken ass, he’s clearly stealing jokes.

  24. The optics are terrible. Forget Farrell and Aviles. This deal legitimates Boston’s tactics over the last two years in practically publicly courting a smaller market team’s manager.

    Whoever said Toronto Expos was dead on.

  25. “The Farrell Saga Ends, Means Little”

    Like a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

  26. meh to the whole thing-let’s start wheelin and dealin-arizona has alrteady made 2 fukin trades-what r we waiting for?

    • Chris young to Oakland was a steal for the A’s.

      The dbacks got raped

    • Wasting a week negotiating for Mike “backup” Aviles. Fuuuuuuck.

    • LOL!.

      Mccowan & Grange made fun of AA saying that Beeston is running the team & making trades. The Jays let Beeston negotiate the trade for Aviles. I doubt if Beeston knows who Aviles is. Beeston is on friendly terms with the Boston owner.

      This team is becoming a bigger joke by the day. They let AA make some waiver claims so he can brag about his pickups.

      AA is becoming the Bagdad Bob of the Jays.

  27. I want to see Ausmus as the next coach, he was a position player but excellent with pitching staffs. I read several articles while he was still playing praising his game knowledge with quotes from his former managers saying he would become a great manager himself one day.

    • Joey Bats for player/manager. Just imagine the fun we could have…long toss of helmets practice, how to steal thrird with the clean up hitter up, bunting because you can’t hit, bunting with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, effective arguing with umps

  28. I just hope GM AA isn’t in too much of a hurry to hire to try to make up for this Farrellball Fiasco. There is only one other team hiring, I think. The Jays can have the run of the candidates pretty much so there should be no rush to hire just to have someone.

  29. I think Alex is coming off looking the best from all of this. The writers are really running with Boston / Farrell as villains in all of this. The Toronto Org is coming off as weak, but Alex did what he could with what he had.

    This may actually be somewhat fortuitous for Alex as having a new manager may actually buy him some more time to get the team competitive (hopefully unnecessary). We can pretty much count on some coaching and player roster turnover, so it won’t be like we’re watching that same Ricciardi team year after year not getting the job done. I am just not sure how Alex is going to pull an extra 20 wins out of his ninja butt without significant financial support. Maybe these Boston shenanigans will encourage Rogers to spend to get this team back in the playoff hunt.

    • Do you really think AA’s gonna get to make the call on who manages this team? I’ll bet he only does so with an ego-crushing amount of input from Beeston and the board.

  30. With the agonizing collapse of the season and now this debacle, the consensus going into this offseason seems to be “AA must make impact moves now, or else.” While no one would deny the need for impact moves, its the threat of “or else” that makes me worry AA is vulnerable to the same myopic pressures that made Ricciardi tank. We’ve all bought into the long term, build from within plan, but how can we stay true to the long view when the consensus seems to be now or never?

  31. showalter had a .550 win perc the last 3 years with the yanks, won 100 games then 85 with the dbacks, mostly .500 with the rangers, so the maybe the reason he was fired had more to do with the idiot GM’s he was working for? you know much easier to fire the manager than for the GM to blame himself for not acquiring enough talent? And he won manager of the year twice and could easily win it this year? yeah but fuck ingore all that and say winning is just blind luck so that you can have an excuse as to why the jays never win.

  32. I jokingly mused about Farrell being a Sux double agent two years ago after some horrible decision-making (who can keep track of exactly what it was), but this could really be a fuckfest step backwards if there is some intellectual property transfer (ie, scouting insights, internal opinions regarding prospects, current roster and other league players) along with scooping some coaches along the way. Of course, everyone wears big boy pants and that shit goes on everywhere, but it really feels like a waste of 2 years now when what you hope for with any organization is stability along with growth and innovation.

    On another note, the Arizona Fall League has not been kind to Marisnick. Pillar has been okay in his limited playing time and Dyson seems to have been okay, while Deckster is still unimpressive. Maple Note: Edmonton’s own Riley Kjeldgaard (and Brewers’ prospect) led all hitters with 4 HRs in only 21 PAs (everyone with 3 HRs had close to 40 PAs).

    Please please please AA – Ike Davis, two of either Josh Johnson, Paul Maholm, Carlos NewTown or Garza and one of Justin Upton, Shin-Soo Choo or (worst case scenario) Will Venable under the tree for Xmas this year.

    And, please Santa, rain a decade of hellfire down on Fenway Farrell and those Rapscallion Red Sux.

  33. Its a bloodly disgrace to be a Blue jay fan. AA is still a poor boy sandwich.

    • +1.

      It would be interesting what the reaction would be if AA decided to go after Francona in 2010 ?

      I am baffled why everyone thinks its OK for the red sox to poach John Farrell who is under contract.

      If I was AA I would have demanded Buckholz or 2 pitching prospects or else tell the Red Sox to go jump in a lake.

      If Farrell became a problem ., I would use a non compete clause & he could go lobster fishing for a year.

      You have to replay the mccowan interview. It’ s clear that AA is unhappy with the compensation received.

      • +1. Absofuckinglutely. Imagine AA publicly going after Tito, and the shit storm it would’ve caused.

      • +1. Absofuckinglutely. Imagine AA publicly going after Tito, and the shit storm it would’ve caused.

    • No one is asking you to stick around. Beat it!

  34. I think this is a good move. The jays upgraded their bench and hopefully their manager.

  35. If you want a primer on Brad Awesomest as a potential manager, here is an interesting interview he did with NPR last year

    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/18/139649031/covering-the-plate-a-baseball-catcher-tells-all

  36. “Yet one of the guys on the WEEI round-table believed Romero’s alleged weight gain was real, and wondered if Farrell “left his cowboy hat in Boston,” surprised that the Jays’ Opening Day starter wasn’t afraid of Farrell, the way that Clay Buchholz and other Boston pitchers had been afraid of him as pitching coach. It’s an excellent question, and this lack of fear quite obviously might extend to a lot of Jays players.”

    There were many problems with John Farrell’s managing, but to me this is the big one here.

    As I watched this season of undisciplined ball, counterproductive unprofessional on-field antics and unremorseful defiance from players, with the whole Escobar clusterfuck being the icing on the cake, I thought to myself, these guys just don’t fear their manager.

    I’m not talking necessarilly fear that the manager is going to slap you one a la John Gibbons (though maybe Gibby was on to something there), but no fear of consequences, which is the crux of what Omar Vizquel and Gregg Zaun were talking about.

    I chalked it up to Farrell not having made the switch from pat-you-on-the-back, buddy-buddy coach to the buck-stops-here managerial role. But it seems I was out to lunch on that one – on two fronts.

    Seems like for all the avuncular, mentoring pat-on the backs, Farrell may not have been actually the good communicator with the young players I thought he was. Even more surprising is to hear that he was fear-instilling variety of coach back in Boston.

    So to paraphrase Farrell’s “where is that kid from East L.A.” line about Romero, what happened to that apparently tough-love coach from Boston? It’s a moot point now, but it seems like Farrell switched gears and gave us the worst of both worlds on that front – not a feared taskmaster not a particularly good communicator.

    All that matters in all of this is how does AA learn from this and get the right manager this time around? Who in the list of names bandied about thus far might better straddle this divide?

    As a once-aspiring teacher with a class from hell, I can tell you that if you can’t instill discipline and if there’s no fear of consequences, you’re not going to achieve half of what you might otherwise be able to. All the great coaching in the world isn’t going to add up to what it should, if the players don’t fear the consequences of not following through on the lessons learned. And this isn’t a kiddy school, though playing a game, these are highly paid professionals who need to be clear on what it means to carry yourself as one.

    This isn’t all on the manager, as it also brings up the question of whether the Jays have enough of the right kind of veteran players (Jason Frasor and Adam Lind have just answered no to that question in interviews). But at the end of the day, starting from day one in spring training, the manager sets the tone and expectations for the club, and it’s to him everyone looks to see what the follow-through is or isn’t.

    • Here’s part of Greg Zaun’s prescription for what the nextmanagerneeds to be, which I agree completely with:

      “I would say he should be a strong personality or a guy who understands how hard it is to play the game, but at the same time recognize they’re professionals and it’s not his job to be their best friend,” Zaun said.

      “He must be very clear in what his expectations are, and make it clear there are ramifications for poor play and poor behaviour. Whoever it is, he has to demand those kids play up to a professional calibre and if you don’t, you don’t play.

      “I understand when a hard-ass doesn’t work, but you have to have a set of rules to live by. You have to behave like a professional. I don’t think expecting a major league player to behave like a pro is too much to ask; I don’t think benching them or sending them to Triple-A is being hard on them. But going in there screaming and shouting at people, and showing people up in public is not needed. There’s no need to embarrass people, but when they embarrass themselves, you get them off the field.”

      http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/article/1275338–blue-jays-manager-john-farrell-leaves-for-boston-red-sox-three-lessons-learned

  37. Jp Arencibia for Ike Davis works for me.

  38. I almost don’t care who they trade( almost) but if they trade decent players it better be for pitchers first and foremost. I/m not real wooried about 1B at this point. Trade some surplus for Gallardo of Milwaukee for starters

    • Need the pitchers. Alex already said that- if we don’t upgrade our pitching, we’re not going anywhere next season.

  39. Manny Acta is a likeable guy, but his club quit playing for him about half-way through the season. I cannot see him managing the Blue Jays.

    Two things bother me about this whole John Farrell episode. The first is that after two years in the Blue Jays organization, he felt he had a better chance to win in Boston. The secpnd is that after two years of working for the Blue Jays, an employee of a despised division rival now has intricate knowledge of the Blue Jays, above and beyond what would normally be available. I hope that doesn’t come back to haunt the club.

    • +1.

      As Gregg Zaun said today, at some point the truth will come.

      Is it not possible that AA promised quality starting pitching to Farrell but couldn’t deliver because of budget issues??

      If AA broke his promise to farrell, its understandable that Farrell would wantto go back to Boston.

      Let’s see who has the better team on April 1 2013.

      Can Boston upgrade their team faster than the Jays??

      • “Is it not possible that AA promised quality starting pitching to Farrell but couldn’t deliver because of budget issues??

        If AA broke his promise to farrell, its understandable that Farrell would wantto go back to Boston.”

        Again, how can you POSSIBLY know whether or not AA made any promises to Farrell?

        The manager works for the GM, not the other way around. JF may have wanted something, it doesn’t mean he gets it. By the same token, AA may have wanted to sign pitchers but not given the budget.

        Did Rogers break their promise? Does this mean AA can go to Boston?

        Fuck off.

        • @Jays2010.

          I found it very interesting that Farrell kept telling the media he wanted starting pitching, the same as last year.

          The tone he used was that of an exasperated manager.

          Doesn’t it make sense that Farrell would want a quality rotation instead of just Ricky & Morrow. ??

          You make a good point that Rogers may have broken their promises to AA about a budget.

          Now, based on the recent interviews AA has given, it seems that he has to go through several hoops to get a budget increase approved.

          If he can’t get the money, then he can’t sign the players he wants & Farrell can’t do his job.

          Today at work we wre reviewing BCE/Rogers investment in MLSE. $525 million each.

          If I was at Rogers I could say I was over invested in sports , so not be inclined to give more money to the Jays even if it is counterproductive.

        • I couldnt see AA leaving for another team, but its more likely he will take the President job when Beeston retires. He is a good communicator.

          Now if AA gets fired by Rogers then he could easily find work. He could do better in the NL central or al central where there is less pressure.

          • Considering JP Ricciardi had the job for 8 years, Rogers is not going to fire AA in the near future, even if your season tickets in 2012, 2013 and so on are used to watch a non-playoff team.

            It’s pretty obvious your real beef is with Rogers. You seem to think another GM would mean a $150 million payroll.

            It doesn’t work that way.

          • @Jays 2010.

            Yes, my beef is with Rogers.

            based on today’s interview. AA was a bystander at negotiations for Aviles

            It looks like Beeston agreed that Farrell could go with minimal compensation.

            AA is the gopher boy.

            They send him out to do interviews because he communicates well whereas Beeston creates chaos whenver he talks to th media.

            I feel bad for AA.

            Rogers does have to spend at least 120 million in 2013 to get the new manager a good pitching staff & 1 more Bat.

            The prospects that AA drafted aren’t ready yet.

            As was pointed out several times by night manimal & others. The team is spending 30 % less than 2001 with more revenue sources.

          • Holy shit! Finally!

            Some acknowledgement that AA isn’t doing a poor job and Rogers is just a shitty owner.

  40. I sure hope he doesn’t take the Man in White with him….

  41. I agree with the article completely but this whole business just leaves a bad taste in your mouth nonetheless.

  42. Still no player reaction? They were fast enough to get Pedey there on the line to endorse his new boss. Especially since a reporter fingered him for the anonymous Red Suck who dissed Farrell a couple of days ago. Don’t they have phones in the DR! I would have thought they would have gotten a quote from Jose by now.

    And as I said on The World’s Longest Thread, I bet the Jays are thrilled to hear their former manager wax so poetic about his lovely new position. Blech. I hope his pitchers all get the yips. In one week.

    • Why do you care so much?

      I don’t see why Toronto fans care so much about the bigger markets. I want the Red Sox to fail so the Jays have an easier path to the top of the division. Beyond that, I don’t really give a shit.

    • @Isabella.

      Casey Janssen congratulated Farrell , but I haven’t seen any other reactions.

      Farrell comes across to me as a nice guy that said all the right things in interviews but allowed the kids to run wild.

      Now, this year with all the injuries, could he afford to bench Escobar or Lawrie in August when they were healthy enough to play.??

      If Farrell had stayed in Boston, would he have take Francona’s job after he was fired?

      It will be very entertaining to watch the red sox next year. You know the Boston media won’t give him a pass like the Rogers media here that have now determined that managers don’t matter.

      I would like to go & review how many posts Stoeten did ranting on Cito in 2009 & 2010, & how many posts he did ranting at Farrell in 2011 & 2012.

      Managers do affect games, especially when they make bad bullpen decisons, lineup positions etc..

  43. Keith Law’s take on Farrell:

    “I’m not writing about it in a separate post. I think Toronto can easily find a manager as good as Farrell or better, so they just got an almost-free Mike Aviles for their trouble.”

    I concur.

    Forget the “bullying” aspect of this. In 2 years, John Farrell had not shown himself to be a good tactical manager. And there isn’t any reason to believe he was good in the clubhouse.

    Here’s the chance to find a difference maker. Or, at the least, someone who employs good tactics like Manny Acta.

  44. Not Mannie Acta.

    • Yes, we know you base everything on winning percentage, such as when you said you were impressed with Baltimore this year.

      Some of us like to look beyond the record to see what is actually going on.

      • “Look beyond the record to see what is actually going on’ What a dumb, pompous thing to say. The record is what’s going on. It’s the record, stupid. And Mannie Acta’s record as a manager isn’t real impressive and he didn’t have the enormous injury problem that Farrell had to deal with.

        There’s not a ton of difference between Cleveland and the Jays. He is the wrong hire in my opinion.

        And, yeah, Balto impressed the shit outta me this year. You can call it luck if you want, but when they played us they destroyed us and that wasn’t just lucky. They were a better team. Deal with it.

        • Yeah, and I’m sure you saw Baltimore coming.

          The problem with too many people like you is that they buy season tickets for dumb reasons and also do not renew season tickets for dumb reasons, such as feeling the Jays “lied” to you.

          If this is actually what you think, you were wasting your money on season tickets for years. But you’ll probably find a dumb reason to buy them again soon enough.

  45. Stoeten, I think it’s a little cavalier to easily dismiss Showalter doing a good job in Baltimore. That would be like saying that Bautista is lucky because his history with the Pirates dictates that he would always be a marginal talent.

    Managers learn from past experiences, and conceivably could take different approaches with a new tenure. People learn, and improve their skills…. it IS possible ya know.

    Time will tell.

    • I think your analogy doesn’t work because it’s not that Showalter hasn’t done a good job in Baltimore, it’s that even if he does the best job of any manager ever, he can only ever improve the team by a handful of games over the season.

  46. The AL East will be interesting next year. The time is now for AA. New York is old and has an incredibly bloated payroll. Boston fell farther than anyone would imagine and have a lot of ground to make up. The Orioles were smoke and mirrors and Tampa isn’t nearly as good as they were 2-3 years ago.

    • I think Boston could be bad for a couple years. That’s a bare team right now.

      • they have a lot of pride and a lot of money to spend now though.

        I kind of hope they put their eggs in one basket and sign Hamilton to an A-Rod-esque contract.

        regardless that team needs 2 good starting pitchers and 2-3 good position players to have a shot at returning to the playoffs.

  47. There are several different moving parts to this fucking series of events…..and each of these statements is true, if not seemingly contradictory..

    -losing farrell does not really hurt this team…he is basically the managerial equivalent of replacement level. big deal.

    -getting a guy like aviles in exchange for replacement level manager is a good move..PROVIDED the jays do not then cease in their attempt to upgrade at the second base position..because while an improvement over shitty bench players like vizquel, mccoy, brazilian boy…Aviles is not even an improvement over the shitacular Kelly Johnson by any means aside from production per dollar.

    -having said this…it is still not a good thing when your manager looks at your job as a stepping stone. this is NOT college basketball where a coach at a mid major is KNOWN ahead of time to be looking to move to the big time should his chance arrive. this is major league baseball and there are only THIRTY jobs in the world..and there are innumerable people wishing to have one of those jobs.

    it just makes the jays look second tier. and lets face it..they have been for quite some time now both in on field performance and management.

    perhaps this is the first move in a sea change back to relevance for this franchise. at least lets hope.

    • who gives a shit what the baseball world thinks of how the Farrell events unfolded? baseball tiers are based on the standings not perception of the organization. The Jays will probably be above Boston’s tier in this regard next season. The Jays are what they are and these events aren’t going to change their status in MLB.

    • +1.

      It will be interesting to see what AA does with Aviles. If he’s the starting 2B next year then the Jays have not done enough .

      Frankly, KJ at 4 million is a better player than Aviles at 1.5 million.

      Jays won’t get Scutaro.

  48. I guess my hope is as a result of what Boston’s done Rogers or AA and Beeston are angered, annoyed or perturbed enough over the whole affair to actually put Rogers considerable resources to use.

    Going back to the payroll issues again, Rany Jazayerli ‏ who writes about the Royals and also for Grantland, did a pretty good piece on what the Royals might be willing to spend this year and next. I think it’s a good jumping off point for the Jays and it also shows just how much room the Jays have on payroll if small market KC is going to be spending as much as he thinks in the article.

    Even better, he’s done a great breakdown on some of the free agent pitchers the Jays could also possibly target like Edwin Jackson and Anibal Sanchez. He goes on to mention the market inflation that I have alluded to recently as well.

    Definitely worth a read imo.

    http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/2012/10/for-want-of-pitcher-elite-free-agents.html

  49. Can we hire Not Jim Tracy? His views on managers, leadership and the Colorado Rockies of Colorado are a pleasure to hear.

  50. One thing we know is that alex is a perennial liar. I don’t believe him for one second that they didn’t want to fire farrell. Blair hit the nail on the head when he said that rogers doesn’t like sticker shock. I’m sure they were mad about the yunel fiasco and somebody’s head had to roll. That would be farrell. This is why they didn’t haggle for long with boston. They simply didn’t want boston calling alex’s bluff and saying ok you keep him then alex would have to fire him and eat the contract. This way alex comes out squeeky clean.

  51. Wait why the hell did we claim Bobby Wilson?

    • God only knows ! Not for organizational depth we have lots of catchers. Possibly security because they are going to trade JP to get pitching

  52. The next manager should be a bulldog that can whip this mess into shape and cut out all the bullshit that went on this year. For example Yunel Escobar running Omar visquel and everyone else off fly balls like he is getting paid by the put out. Omar has 11 gold gloves I’m sure he had it covered! That to me showed a complete lack of respect and a selfishness that should have been stamped out immediately! Farrell seemed to show zero interest. I realize SS can call off others but he is blatantly trying to pad his put out stats. Or is just plain ignorant ? There’s a general lack of playing fundamental baseball I noticed in the last two years. Actually catching the ball, hitting the cutoff man, And playing the game the right way with honor and respect I.E. Brett Lawrie who I really like but could use an attitude adjustment. This is a young team and it needs a steady hand to steer it. I guess that puts Manny Acta and Tony Pena at the top of the list. But I really like Brad Ausmus although I don’t know that he would come to the jays.

  53. Oh here’s a question. If managers are so worthless, why did we constantly rag on Farrell for making the wrong lineup/strategy decisions?

    • +1.

      Agreed. I expect that there will be very few posts next year about the new manager & his decisions.

      It’s laughable to think there is no difference between Maddon & Citoball etc..

  54. That pretty much sums it up. Good post.

  55. A few things …

    1. Farell openly saying his dream job is the Red Sox to his boss IS reason enough to want to ditch him … I think its a fair point

    2. This entire reaction is just piling on to what was a worst case scenario season. No one knows the value of a manager quantitatively, least of all one that has but 2 indifferent years of experience. We all just remember the praising quotes from Schilling and other ex Sox players. We also don’t like the thought of being poached by a division nemesis that seems to be in a bigger mess then us.

    3. Whenever the next manager is picked (provided its not a complete retread), we will be singing his praises, and celebrating that we got the NEXT BIG thing + a decent Middle infielder .. joy in Jayville once again ..

    4. BONUS – 2B platoon – has this ever been done before? ha

  56. I think you also need to look at this from the eyes of a Boston fan.

    - Team’s not playing well
    - Ditch all good players, go into rebuild
    - Fire manager
    - Target indifferent manager from a slightly better team
    - Trade middling piece to get new manager

    If that was a description of the Jays and we were trading Jeff Mathis for Bud Black you’d be shaking your head.

  57. Blair thinks Ausmus will have a ton of options and likely won’t want to come here.

    I wonder if the Angels will get rid of Mike Sciosa…

    In any case, whether or not the manager wins games, I do think he can lose them, and Farrell lost us more than a couple with bone-headed pitching match-ups and ridiculous bunts and steals. More important to me than anything else is a guy who can wrangle the kids. Of which there may not be so many this year so it might be an easier job. AA already said he made a mistake depending on younger (less experienced) players last season. He doesn’t have all that many grown-ups around, so that might be a decent sign that he’s ready to buy/trade this off-season.

  58. I totally agree that it really doesn’t matter, except….

    People (FAs and other players) may feel it matters thus making it matter (although it doesn’t actually matter). Kind of like when people used to make a “run” on a bank.

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