A New Villain Is Born…

Did he ever looked remotely this happy in Toronto?

John Farrell was introduced to the media in Boston today (video here), and while I made it clear on Twitter that I wanted no part of the agonizing over it, there were certainly a few things that require our attention– which I’ll mostly do below, via the angry tweets that populated my feed when I returned from recording the Getting Blanked Podcast. In particular, there were two moments– which I’ve, of course, heard about after the fact– that I think require a bit of additional scrutiny.

First was the whole business involving Farrell’s claim that Alex Anthopoulos told him that he’d have left the Jays, too, had a hypothetical job from the Expos come calling.

A lot of people seem to figure that this was an off-side thing for Farrell to say, or want to cast some of their anger at Farrell– or, perhaps, simply at the universe itself– in the direction of the club’s GM. Indeed, there is plenty of anger to go around out there, but it’s a little bit rich how some of it is manifesting itself. I mean, some people are skewering Anthopoulos for holding firm last year and keeping Farrell around after the manager made it known he wanted to jump ship for Boston, while others– and perhaps a number of poor, deficient souls from the first group– are aghast at the weakness of the Jays’ GM for letting him go at all. Or they’re on board with the hysteria of the Zaun Cherry’s of the world, who last night shepherded the drooling masses who’ve yet to learn to tune his nonsense the fuck out further into insanity with the insistence (reportedly– I didn’t see the clip, but have seen on Twitter and in the comments) that anything short of Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Bard or Lackey(!) should have been a deal-breaker for the Jays.

The thing about Farrell’s comment that I think is being overlooked in some corners is the fact that is can be read as a pretty fucking benign thing. “It’s OK, John. I understand. I could have done the same thing in some hypothetical cirumstance.”

But, y’know, why let common sense get in the way of a good bout of seething? (Speaking, did you hear the ESPN Boston report David Ortiz is close to signing a two-year deal to stay there? Commence further seething!)

Besides, Mike Wilner was very quick to tweet that Alex Anthopoulos corrected the record to him:

OK, sure. I think it was fine either way, and I’m not sure that correction makes it better, but… whatever. ON ALL OF IT, A GIANT WHATEVER!

The other big supposed stinkbomb from the press conference was a line from Farrell that some felt indicated that the club was pushing for more of a small ball approach, which the manager said he wished he had pushed back on.

If that were an accurate reading, of course, it would instantly make us question everything we’ve ever believed about Alex Anthopoulos not being a fucking idiot. I mean… small ball? Seriously? Go read the damn Sun for all that’s worth.

Fortunately, I don’t think that’s how I’d read the following comment:

“I think there were times where I could have– and this comes from those experiences in Toronto– in my relationship with Alex, and the conversations we would have with regarding the roster, I think there might have been opportunities for me to speak a little bit more passionately towards some suggestions or recommendations to the roster. We also introduced and brought in a number of young players, and we’d created a diverse offence that was aggressive– we looked to incorporate a much more aggressive running game. Some of that was overboard, and some of that we ran into some outs. So, creating that environment and that approach, and putting young players into it, there probably were opportunities where I should have shut them down, as far as the X’s and O’s of the game. And maybe I would have changed closers  a little quicker.”

Italics mine, because that’s a phrase that Farrell used frequently in his time here. I read the quote as though the diverse offence was Farrell’s philosophy, as we’ve been led to believe for the last two year, and that the places where he would have pushed back would have been in terms of marshalling his young charges full-bore into that system– the them wasn’t the Jays and their creation of this aggressive system, but the young players who very obviously weren’t ready to handle it.

I could be wrong, but unless Jim fucking Tracy gets hired– and Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun suggests he’s potentially a candidate (PUKE!)– I’m not going to be concerned.

Here’s a selection of how my feed looked as it happened:









Comments (220)

  1. And Ortiz signed a 2 year contract with the Redsox

    • It’s in there. Though for now they’re just “closing in,” or something.

      People just love the punchable face of Ben Cherington, I guess.

    • Don’t waste too much time lamenting the fact that Ortiz is staying with the Sox. The likelihood of him leaving was slim to nil.

    • I’m pretty thankful that we got out from under that potential albatross. You know, for a group of commenters who are generally all about statistics I don’t get how everyone got so psyched about Ortiz. Do you even know what a home-road split is?

      Also, Torii Hunter. Probably a dead cat bounce but he would’ve been the second best Blue Jay last year. Also not like we could use more high OBP bats or anything…

  2. I’m not sure exactly how much could have been squeezed out of the Sox last year for JF. I wonder if it was going to be even less than Mike Aviles?

    If a manager isn’t motivated to stay, I’m not so sure we’re getting his best efforts anyway so why make him stay?

    With all the injuries in 2012 for the jays, everyone should just write off this season and move on.

  3. to me the JF media day, just makes me think poor of Farrell. As much as you have issues with your past work place you don’t go into the public sphere to say it was a piece of shit. His lack of well wishes for the jays and the city of Toronto and the team tells me he did not enjoy his time here. Wished they did what Olney suggested waited till Boston hired someone else and fired his ass. Yes, they waited a year to let you go to Boston, but did the jays do wrong by JF and did he do wrong by the Jays? I hope this hole thing spurns the penny pinchers at Rogers to sign a 2b, 2 star caliber pitchers to say fuck you, to JF and Boston. but I can only hope.

    • The only reason I would not enjoy working in the Toronto sports universe is because of the fucktard writers and fans. But Boston is way worse.. So by that logic, Farrell is a bit of a dick for not being anything close to gracious to Jays’ fans and the organization.

    • Let’s start the chant at each game that Farrel is present for at the Dome:

      “Fuck You, Far-rell!”

  4. I’m not sure how else AA could have handled this..

    he could have done the dick move and fired him after the sox hired a replacement. but thats a really big dick move.

    Would people have been okay with that if it went down?

    • I’ll take the saved cost of paying his contract and the bench/platoon infielder over sabotaging John Farrell. He shouldn’t be significant enough to care about in that way.

      • agreed

      • I……agree? Huh. Well said, BFF.

      • +1 BFF

      • My desire for justice and my knowledge that AA did do the right move are at war on this one…

      • I think AA could have held out for more compensation but he made it clear that the deal was handled at the OWNERSHIP Level with Beeston & Luchiano handling the deal.

        AA had no say in who was received.

        Listen to PTS yesterday.

        AA has lost control of the team. He said last week that h has to go through many steps to get any large increase in payroll approved.

        It’s baffling that AA was aware for over a year that Farrell wanted to go & he still kept him??? Wow!

        • In the PTS piece AA didn’t say he had NO say in who was received as comp, only that the process was initiated at the management level.

          I’m pretty sure ANY Gm would have to go through “many steps” to get a large payroll increase.

          And really, what more could you expect the Jays to get? We got at least someone who serves as a utility player – an upgrade over Visquel or McCoy or even Johnny Mac.

    • That’s not only a dick move, it’s an asinine move that hurts the Jays too. It’s cutting off your nose to spite your face. You add the cost of paying out the rest of Farrell’s contract, you put yourself behind the 8-ball in your managerial search as Boston (and likely Colorado) fill their openings with presumably candidates from your pool, and you forego the chance to get a credible major league player. How is that productive for the Jays in any sense?

      The Zauns and McCowns of the world that believe this is remotely close to a reasonable course of action are apparently hung up on this idea that this perception of “weakness” is going to be devastating from the franchise. Personally, I haven’t seen a single writer outside of Toronto or anyone outside of the Jays fanbase characterize this whole situation as some sort of scarlet letter on the Jays franchise.

      Judging by what we’ve heard emanating from Farrell and AA and the front office, it seems increasingly likely to me that Farrell had one foot out the door and that this is analogous to the Bruce Bochy situation, where San Diego was ready to move on from Bochy and let him go to division rival San Francisco (with no compensation!).

      • I liked AA’s comments to Mcgowan yesterday when he asked him about being weak.

        If you read between the lines, he was bascially saying ‘are you a fucking idiot.’ That’s really not the way things work, and making decisions out of spite will get you nowhere.

        Which managers/players will want to come to TO after AA screws over Farrell by firing him after the Red Sox hire someone else? Not to mention you would be delaying your own off-season plans.

        • +1

          I couldn’t agree more.

        • LOL!.

          AA has to be the nice guy & the Jays have to be pushovers.

          AA had no control over the situation.

          Beeston accepted the offer from the red sox.

          He probably told AA to take whatever he could get.

          Red Sox offer the 2nd worst OBP guy in the AL.

          AA spins him into “a player we always wanted” Rah Rah. Bit of pop in his bat…

          The naivety on this board from supposed experts is amusing.

          Obviously Farrell thought he could not get Francona’s job, so he came here & see what would happen. Francona gets fired & he wanted to go back.

          Let’s say the Jays would have agreed last year to let Farrell go. Farrell would have certainly managed the red sox better than Valentine.

          The hiring of Valentine created chaos in red sox nation & led them to get rid of Kevin Youklis, Crawford , Gonzalez & Beckett.

          The damage the Jays did was better than expected.

          If the Jays had kept farrel for 2013, who knows what further chaos the Jays could have done to the red ox..

          • @Oakville

            Why should the Jays primary goal be to cause “further chaos” to the Red Sox?

            And based on what you have seen in 2 years of Farrell managing, what suggests he will fix this chaos?

            “AA has lost control of the team”

            Fucking dumb as usual.

            It’s nice to have something to count on.

      • Bang on Brumfield.

        I wonder if McCown recalls Brian Burke leaving Anahiem mid-season, for nothing, to come to the ‘epicenter’ of how in Toronto. Same thing, different sport.

        Our media are dolts.

      • The reason ournalists from other cities don’t care is that it appears normal that the red sox or yankees can spread rumors about the Jays & get the team to give up a manager under contract.

        Does anyone think there wouldn’t be an uproar if AA went after Joe Giradi or Mike Scocia with similar tactics?

        I could see the Jays saying Maddon of the Rays liking Niagara wine. & hates the humid Tampa Bay weather , so the Jays think he is unhappy in Tampa etc etc…

        Maddon ends up with the Jays.

  5. As anybody who watched this team regularly over the last two years knows, John Farrell was a pretty shitty manager that never seemed to have a real clue as to how to manage a baseball game. It’s just pretty hard for me to get all up in arms about him leaving for a rival no matter how classless his exit is.

    • It’s like being dumped by someone you weren’t even really attracted to that much, and were planning on breaking up with anyways, and they say “I’m really sorry to hurt your feelings”. Because when you say “but I was gonna break up with YOU!” it just sounds fake.

      • That is to say, that’s why people are upset. Him leaving is treated like a huge deal, when really he wasn’t that great.

    • I think the same people getting up in arms over this are the ones who’d bash Farrell every day for the questionable moves he made (correctly, it should be noted).

      I think he’ll be no more notable than Tim Johnson in the Blue Jays history when all is said and done, and won’t be Terry Francona 2.0 for Boston.

      Should be noted that Francona was considered a poor manager until he won the series in Boston, which proves as much as anything that managers aren’t worth that much strategically, except in rare circumstances.

      • A good manager may not win you too many games. But a bad manager will lose a bunch more.

        • +1.

          I wonder if Stoeten will refrain from making any comments about the Jays next manager after the new meme”managers don’t matter”

  6. The best thing to come out of this is that we won’t have to hear Farrell repeatedly jam the phrase ‘speaks to’ into his presser

  7. Fuck John Farrell.

  8. farrel was suppose to be a pitching manager, if so why all the injuries??? I felt he rushed the conditioning in training camp. the pitcher’s muscle up but were not able to continue for long period of times and they broke down. sorry Farrel was a failure plain and simple

    • I am glad you are here to figure this all out. Speaks volumes of your psychic ability and x-ray vision.

      • don’t need either when pitcher #1 through #6 go down conditioning has everything to do with it. BJay pitching was simply not ready and Mr. Farrel was suppose to be the expert with pitching I still say it has to do with muscling up the players which is a quicker way to get ready but has a much higher rate of injury. and again Farrel failed plain and simple…as far as the x-ray and psychic no need , I could be wrong but i dont think so

        • Like I said, I am glad you are here to have it all figured out for us. Your confidence in your opinions makes me feel safe and warm.

          And here I was thinking it was all the double dutch rudders that were causing the injuries. Though I guess conditioning would have still prevented those injuries.

        • I have a weird wart thing on my left nut. Can you please advise?

    • This post gave me cancer

  9. who cares it is John “i have nothing to deserve this attention” farrell. Its going to be interesting when the sox finish last again next year and JF gets fired. Did anyone see their roster. They have two good position players in ellesberry (who can’t stay health) and pedroia. There rotation is a bigger mess than the jays (john lacky is there third best starter, lol) and their pen is miles worse than the jays. The only thinh farrell needs is franky cordero so he can overuse him in close games. Enjoy last-place JF (along with the Orials), you back-stabbing loser!

  10. Here’s the bottom line, as far as I am concerned:

    1) Farrell absolutely played the Jays this past year. I think that’s pretty clear from watching him today, and from his pretty jovial attitude. Maybe he was 150% committed in 2011, and then Francona got fired and that changed his mind. But he did play them, and he clearly checked out of Toronto mid-season, and it does look bad on him. And of course there’s the fact that he was lobbying for his good friend Terry Francona’s job before Tito had even cleaned out his Fenway office. The point is, Farrell used the Blue Jays as his “minor league” training for Boston, whether he started out intending to do that or not. That looks bad on John Farrell for anyone outside of Boston.

    2) The Red Sox, and Farrell, come off from this press conference as devious and dishonest. Farrell spoke about honesty. Ben Cherington spoke about professionalism from the Blue Jays. Forget the divisional rival part, forget the compensation part, forget that Boston was so intent on poaching a sub-.500 manager: what is professional or honest about how the Red Sox and Farrell went about this? These words make me wonder if there’s some tampering charges that could be pursued. To those outside of Boston, this reeks of unprofessional behaviour by the Boston organization, and by Farrell. If Farrell flames out in Boston, does he get another job elsewhere, aside from maybe on a Francona-led staff? I’m not so sure. And it’s worth noting that for all the decades the Red Sox and their fans spent railing against the Evil Empire…well congratulations Red Sox Nation, if you weren’t Yankees Lite already you sure as shit are now. Hope you’re happy being everything you hate.

    Having said all that…
    3) The Jays fucked this entire thing up royally. From their handling of Farrell last year and this year, to letting Boston control how this played in the media, to letting media in both cities walk over them, and letting this spin out of control for the last year. As I’ve said before, their mess is fixable, but they fucked this up badly and it’s a deep hole to climb out of. At the very least they can say they got something for a sub-.500 manager who held all the cards, but that’s not much of a solace, even if Aviles turns out to be a solid piece. The Jays made their bed here, and it could have been so easily avoided.

    For me, Farrell lost, the Sox lost, and the Jays lost. Every party here did things wrong, and every party comes out of this looking dirty and flawed in their own way. The important thing is now everyone in Boston and Toronto can move on. Until April 5, of course.

    • Your post is the equivalent to a blunt object to the side of my skull.

      awful just awful perspective on things.

    • Re: your first point
      Farrell’s jay’s contract expired the same time as the Red Sox’ club options on tito.
      coincidence? i think not.

    • +1

    • +10.

      Farrell did “play” the Jays.

      If Francona was still in Boston he would be here working .

      It’s clear that he wanted more involvement in the roster selection 7 wanted more starting pitching.

      Another issue that wasn’t brought up is that he wanted an extra man in the bullpen, which did hurt the bench.

      The bench has been neglected during the Farrellball years.

      He will be booed lustility in April when he shows up.

  11. thats crazy… so let the stupid fuck go, if he didnt wanna be here then fuck him.. lets all throw flaming shitbags at him next year like the shitbag he is lol and AA should have fired him after the soxs hired a new Manager, at first i didnt agree with it but now… fuck it lol. so now who is gonna Manage? fucking Alomar? maybe we can trade for Jim Leyland??? hahahaha

  12. I think the “Farrell as Darth Vader on the Red Sox” photoshop image is going to get a lot more use next year whenever the Jays play the Red Sox.

    It may be irrational to get worked up about all of this, but its pretty fun to hate the Red Sox. Fuck them in their fucking faces, and fuck John Farrell too.

    • This chant should echo around the Dome for every game that Farrell is present:

      “Fuck You, Far-rell!” clap, clap, clap-clap-clap (c’mon Jays fans at the Dome, say it with me now!)

  13. Hearing Farrell describe his brand of managing as “up tempo” and “relentless”, I was half expecting him to throw in “alpha male, jackhammer….merciless, insatiable.”

  14. How about Farrell asking AA for two veterans starters because they were in the hunt for 2WC, and AA saying no? no offence to JA Happ,who delivered when called upon

    • when? what?

      • they were talking about it on Tim and Sid today. it was their translation of this quote:

        “I think there were times where I could have– and this comes from those experiences in Toronto– in my relationship with Alex, and the conversations we would have with regarding the roster, I think there might have been opportunities for me to speak a little bit more passionately towards some suggestions or recommendations to the roster.”

      • No, he totally did have a quote back before the trade deadline where he said something like “a starter, or even two, would go along way.”

        • I think that was Bautista

        • Very true. he was exasperated at the end of the year when asked plans for 2013 & said “the same as last year, starting pitching”.

          AA could not deliver, probably due to payroll budget, so Farrell was upset.

          • Still just a made up reason for him leaving…Farrell was out the Jays door as soon as Francona was out the Red Sux’ door.

  15. So he’s been a lame duck all year! He HAD to go this year. Getting anything for him is a coup. Let’s hope AA finds someone who wants to manage here – not just wants to manage. This needs to be an important part of the decision in hiring a new manager. This year with Farrell was like a couple who stays together for the sake of the kids even though they can’t stand each other. Good riddance to him. Let’s move on. Oh, and you’re welcome John. I always hope the Sux suck but now more than ever.

  16. Meh, David Ortiz can play in Boston for all I fucking care. He can’t pitch can he?

    Most observers are siding with AA, in that AA turned a lemon (John Farrell) into lemonade (Mike Aviles – serviceable middle infielder). I would take a serviceable on-field MLB player over a manager any day of the week.

    What I find interesting is the now are getting more insight into John Farrell’s true colours with his admitted desire to take on the Boston job, one fucking year ago! Could that explain how the clubhouse culture? Like Farrell didn’t give a fuck?

    PS – Ozzie Guillen is now available, Marlins just let him go.

  17. As much as 2012 seemed like every bad break went against us – we were doomed from the start. Having a manager in place who was counting the days til he could leave (and doing a crappy job of managing so we would let him go)


  18. I’ll pay money to the first person who mocks up a pic of Farrell wearing a diaper and sucking on a soother.

    You know, Vince Carter style.

  19. I’m looking forward to the first major transaction from AA so we can focus on moving forward. This was a good post and let us never speak of Farrell again. #wishfulthinking

  20. i agree with Sharkey….

  21. It would be really funny if Farrell’s real dream job was to be the manager of the Miami Marlins…

  22. Ozzie guillen goes on tirade, says “no fucking way would I manage in no fucking Toronto, fucking cold as shit up there, goddam communists too.”

  23. The contrast between AA/the Jays and Farrell/Sox could not be clearer after today. After Alex went out of his way to praise Farrell over the weekend Farrell really took the jerk road today. Did he even give the perfunctory thanks to AA and the Jays? If so, I missed it.

    Since I couldn’t have cared less about Farrell when he was here, this whole fiasco really means nothing to me other than it demonstrates once again that the cone of silence media strategy employed by the Jays causes them grief and PR issues. I don’t like how the Red Sox do business through the press either but surely there is some happy medium to be found that would allow the Jays to control the narrative to their benefit.

    • He did – you missed it.

      Settle down. Good riddance and move on.

    • It’s “code of silence” The cone of silence was something on Maxwell Smarts Get Smart. Google it.

    • +1.

      Other teams have caught on to the cone of silence AA, so they use them to start rumors like last year , the Jays were in on every player during the winter metings, Jays were front runners for Darvish.

      The Jays even punked Rogers sportsnet into doing a 1 hour radio show the night of the darvish announcement.

      Hopefully AA learns from this mess & tries to be a bit more pro active on commenting.

      Just give the info to shi davidi . he will know what to do with it.

  24. After this….. AA better make a splash at FA or trade markets coz if he doesnt with one more year left after next he too might be looking for work… one sweet deal would make all of us fans and reporters forget about tis huge fuck up lol… PS ID GO AFTER OZZY BUT DOESNT HE HAVE A HATE ON FOR TORONTO TOO?

  25. John Who?

  26. Good riddance to a mediocre manager. Our time is coming sportsfans….oh our time is coming….

  27. After listening (though not watching) Farrell’s presser, I have to say I still like the guy. I hold no ill will to someone who wants to further his career and will likely have a better chance to win with their ownership group.

    I could care less that he’s washed his hands clean of the Blue Jays. I would have done the same.

  28. OTANI!

  29. who cares im just looking forward to see how AA can improve the team in the offseason and what moves he makes

  30. It doesn’t take a genius in the ways of marketing and public relations to know that the way you deal a problem like this is to spin it in your favour. Mike Aviles alone could not spin this in the Jays favour. That’s because it was a baseball move, not a PR move. How difficult would it have been to have made Farrell’s departure contingent on some sort of signed expression of gratitude to the fans and the city of Toronto? So simple. Obviously the person responsible for improving the fan experience at Rogers Centre is also the person in charge of the team’s public relations. Someday’s there’s more to running a ball club than baseball.

    • They’re still working on the baseball part.


    • +1.


      It’s hilarious that a media organization like Rogers needs PR training.

      I remember Brunt last year said after the Darvish fiasco, that the Jays still operate as if it is the 1980′s with a few print reporters & 1 or 2 tv reporters.

      They didn’t even invite the bloggers to the Jays fashion show to unveil the new uniforms.

      It’s baffling that the Jays don’t realize that bloggers do more work promoting the team than the paid media.

  31. Just glad this distraction is over. Now hire somebody, and get to work on this shitty team!

  32. From something called the Toronto Sun:


    The second winter-book installment in the 13th running of the Blue Jays managerial stakes:

    P | Name | Odds

    1. Jim Tracy, 56, former Rockies manager 3-1

    2. Sandy Alomar, Jr., 46, Indians, bench coach 3-1

    3. Manny Acta, 43, former Indians, Nats manager 3-1

    4. Don Wakamatsu, 49, Jays bench coach 5-1

    5. Tim Wallach, 55, Dodgers third base coach 7-1

    6. Demarlo Hale, 51, Orioles third base coach 10-1

    7. Brad Ausmus, 43, Padres special assistant 12-1

    8. Mike Maddux, 51, Rangers pitching coach 15-1

    9. Cito Gaston, 68, former Jays manager 20-1

    10. Ernie Whitt, 60, Baseball Canada manager 25-1

    FIELD: Ron Wotus, 51, Giants bench coach, 25-1; Ryne Sandberg, 53, Phillies third base coach 25-1; Tony Pena, 55, Yankees bench coach, 25-1; Brian Butterfield, 54, Jays third base coach 25-1; Rob Thomson, 49, Yanks third base coach, 30-1; Matt Williams, Diamondbacks third base coach, 30-1; Dave Anderson, 52, Rangers third base coach, 35-1; Brad Mills, 55, Indians coach, 35-1; David Martinez, 48, Rays bench coach, 50-1; Omar Vizquel, 45, retired player, 100-1.

    SCRATCHED: Torey Lovullo, 47, Jays first base coach, Tony Beasley, 45, manager triple-A Syracuse.

    • Did you see the results poll? Sandy Alomar is running away with it, but Jim Tracy and Ernie Whitt are in double-digits, and not far behind, Cito! Christ, it’s amazing how much good-will that buffoon built up in this town – still coasting, two decades later!

      • Bring back Roy Hartsfield

      • Cito is a strange guy to think about- on the one hand, I loathe him. On the other, I loathe him less.

        Plus, it’s a little like Michael Scott: say what you want about him, he would never pull shit like this.

      • Say what you want about Cito. He. Will. Not. Bunt.

        Fuck I couldn’t stand the constant bunting of the last two years.

    • ill take Ausmus at 12-1 for value

    • Anyone else surprised Dave Martinez is so low? I’m actually hoping for either him or Alomar Jr.

      • I’m surprised by Martinez, too…thought he should be near the top of the list. What is so special about Sandy Alomar Jr. that makes him the hotshot favourite anyways?

    • I would like to see Ryne Sandberg…

      But if the Cubs job becomes available, he may be gone too.

  33. un-retire Cito? no thank you.

    Manny Acta would be fine with me. Butterfield would also be cool too.

  34. Farrell is obviously a piece of shit, but not just for leaving the Jays. Two years ago when the Red Sox fired Francona, one of Farrell’s “best friends”, this same ownership grouped leaked stories of Francona’s marital issues and a substance abuse problem. Farrell was a shitty manager, and now obviously a shitty person. I know the Blue Jays will probably want an experienced manager, but I want Sal Fasano. He is an organizational guy, I don’t believe that a manager can make that much of a difference, and he has a killer mustache.

    • Sox fired Francona one year ago.

      • yes he was fired a year ago, and he admitted today that he wanted the job a year ago. My point is John Farrell wants to work for people who just fired his buddy and outed personal matters to the media on his way out the door. Speaks to Farrel’s character if you ask me.

        • +10 Excellent point. It seems farrell didn’t care what they did to Frncona who is probably the most successful Red sox manager in 50 years.

          God help Farrell if things go wrong in Boston.

          Wil the red sox trash his son who’s recovering from cancer etc???

          I look forwatd to each red sox loss next year with farrell giving a post game press conference.

        • “Fuck You, Far-rell!” clap, clap, clap-clap-clap (all the kids now!)

  35. It’s a good thing that Toronto sports fans like to forgive and forget slights.

  36. Not once in two seasons did I look at Farrell and think, now there’s a guy who knows what the fuck he’s doing. Carlos Tosca was more on the ball. Came here with a rep for development. Who has developed under Farrellball? Maybe EE, but he’s no young guy and it’s not as if Farrell’s fingerprints are on the improvement. Must have been dreaming of his new job when he didn’t notice the gibberish on Escobar’s eye black in 9 whole innings. Fucking putz.

  37. I’m going to miss the safety squeeze.

  38. Dear Farrell, you’ve now joined my list of disliked ex-Blue Jays. You are now, like AJ Burnett and Alex Rios before you, the target of my heckling each and every time you are at the Rogers Centre. Have fun in Boston, douche.

  39. ausmus please

  40. Farrell may have stopped caring at some point, but certainly not before July 2nd 2011 (inclusive).


  41. Let’s really stir things up next season….hire Ozzie and have him make Zaunny as his bench coach. lol

  42. when asked at the presser if the jays had offered farrell an extension beyond the third year, farrell indicated that was private

    just makes it a little bit more humiliating if we offered an extension after he already told beeston last year he wanted the boston job, and then he said no

  43. What about the dye job for the Red Sox? Did anyone else think all the grey hair is gone?

  44. looks like louvello just signed on as bench coach.. still hoping to christ that murphy joins em

  45. Well what ever. Now AA has a chance to bring in a Manager who wants to win in Toronto. Good Luck to JF.. he is going to need it.

  46. Is it just me or does it look like JF took the Keith Hernandez, Just For Men route? Seems a lot less grey in that picture. Superficial Massholes…

  47. Not sure if it was mentioned anywhere, but Tony Lovullo is leaving the Jays – not under contract – for Boston also.


  48. If AA held onto Farrell until Boston found a manager, then fired him, everybody would be crapping on AA for not getting something from Boston for him, especially with AA’s habit of not commenting on personnel issues.

    AA was stuck between a rock and a hard place…couldn’t work a deal with the Sox last year so didn’t let him go..Farrell feels like a hostage all year and pines for his first, true, and only love: Boston. I bet he showed AA in more than one occasion that he really didn’t want to be here and his heart wasn’t in it

    I’m thinking when déjà vu was about to happen all over again, management/ownership told AA to get whatever they could and get rid of the bastard.

  49. My two cents: Ausmus or Alomar.

    Conspiracy theory: Was Yunel’s eyeblack slur directed at Farrell?

  50. It’s not like the Massholes are completely,overjoyed. A significant percentage are u thrilled to the max and cite Farrell’s piss-poor record here.

    The guy looks like a president and manages like Daffy Duck. I’m not spending too much more time on him after that news conference.

  51. I missed the press conference. Where can I find the link?

  52. Now are we allowed to boo Farrell without being called classless mouthbreathing nazis? Probably not, but who gives a damn. What a world class assbag Farrell turned out to be.

  53. What is forgotten in all this is that the red sox are shit. Even if their players held a mutiny starting in April and all except Ortiz decided to forego even playing for their contracts, they’re now left with a pretty middling lineup and a shaky rotation with a good bullpen. The assumption is that they’re going to spend through their teeth…but on what? Normally i can tell you who the Yankees or Red Sox starting 9 will be any day of the week, but they have holes at 1b, 3b, SS, OF, C…(ie. i don’t buy middlebrooks at all), to say nothing of: their rotation questions. John Henry, it is rumoured, has been seeking to sell Fenway/the Team…he’s made money, he’s won championships…why not cruise for a bit. With Farrell there now, he’s bought at least a year of “adjustment” period for them to do little, and wait for Bogart to come be their saviour (or whatever). I really don’t get why they traded Adrian Gonzalez…if i’m a red sox fan, i would be pissed now. not happy or hopeful. Hopefully this is the beginning of a period akin to the Yankees’ 1980s…fuck the red sox and their jackass fans and fuckface manager.

    If the Jays can manage to do something about the rotation – and i think this is a good year to do so – next year could be REALLY fun to watch, EVEN IF they Jays don’t end up in the playoff hunt.

    I’m sick of the negative attitudes of everyone about the team. Let’s look at the positive: yes, many players had ‘down’ years, yes, many were hurt. This is probably a GOOD thing. There will be a regression in the rate that pitchers and players are getting hurt. Bautista…if his wrist isn’t fucked…has shown that he’s an elite hitter. E5 got good – even if he takes a step back…he’s finally showing that all the PAs he’s got over the years weren’t for naught. Lawrie will probably take a step forward…Rasmus might be healthy and look more like early-summer/2010 rasmus than all other times…the ‘pen looks like it’s nearly ready to go…there’s a LOT to like…Morrow probably turned a corner, Romero is a competitive guy and he’s not going to sit around and let 2012 happen again…AA knows he need to do something this offseason to the rotation…i expect they sign/trade for SP…

    and that doesn’t even touch the talent that is coming in 2-3 years. even if 2013 is another year…it might be like 1985, but it might be like 1984…whatever the case, if jays fans don’t panic and AA can hold on to the huge amount of pitching in the system right now, who knows what could become of the Jays in 3 years time?

    Let’s take some deep breaths and look at this in the big picture: trust the process. yes, rogers should pony up to help the team, but i’m not even convinced that you want to sign anyone on the market for more than 3 years.

    all the things to be excited about last offseason are still here. and maybe that didn’t work out exactly as we’d hoped in 2012…but it doesn’t mean that they won’t in 2013.

    • there’s a poll on fan590 asking if this is a “make or break year” for AA. over 3/4ths say: YES….

      if bautista had not become the league’s BEST HITTER OUT OF NOWHERE, it’s probably likely that the Jays would have been happy with their top-5 draft picks in 2011 and 2012…and that we’d be pleased as fucking punch if it even looked like they weren’t going to finish behind the orioles next year.

      the fact that the team looked half-way like it had a fucking snowball’s chance in hell at a playoff last year is not aa’s fault. it’s idiots who thought that a month and a half of brett lawrie destroying the league in 2011 meant he was the next mike schmidt and would be starting immediately. are these actually jays or even baseball fans?

      i’m so fucking annoyed at the “fans” in this city. go fucking protest the hockey strike…for fuck’s sake. aa has done a good enough job here that he should be given the leash and cash to run this team as he’s planned since he came in. not barked at, as though if the team doesn’t succeed in 2013, that he fucked up somehow.

      • How was this in any way a reply to your last post? Either way, I’m pretty sure there should be a moratorium on people praising AA and shitting on Brett Lawrie in the same paragraph. You do realize that Lawrie has pretty much been his most successful move, right? Trading for Brandon Morrow does not a great GM make.

        It’s not his fault because ownership won’t give him the leash to get creative but the tangible improvements to the major league team are pretty marginal in the AA era. I’m with you that people need to chill, but it sounds a lot like you’re one of those people…

      • I’ve got nothing of substance to add.

        Agreed on all points.

    • Amen

  54. I live in Denver and pick up plenty of Rockies talk on the radio. Jim Tracy is terrible. He is a terrible manager. I have no idea why he’s in any poll about managing this team. Christ, he’s the last guy we need. The Rockies have stated that Jason Giambi is a viable candidate for their managerial position. O’Dowd and ownership have no idea what they are doing, and of course they gave Tracy an “indefinite” extension.

    • @Ice Cream. Thanks for the info. I never heard of Tracy.

      I think it comes down to Alomar or Acta with my guess being Alomar.

  55. We already had Frank Thomas clogging up the base-paths like molasses. We don’t need Big Papi.

    I don’t think slugging is our main problem anyway. It’s pitching, pitching and more pitching. (And a left fielder and a 1st baseman.)

  56. Storied Franchise?? . . . Epicentre of Baseball Universe?? . . . Special Place????

    5 East Division titles in 35 years, 3 WS appearances/League pennants in 35 years, 2 Championships in 90 years; not really that scary.

    yeah, lost to Angels 3-0 in 2009 ALDS. No real success since 2008 when they lost to Rays in ALCS; 4 years.

    Cannot wait for the return of Cub-like futility for Masholia.

    • It’s amazing how a few decent years will make one forget about 86 years of misery.

      • People just accepted that it would be the Red Sox and Yankees as elite AL East powers from here on in…

        But every team goes through cycles. A couple are able to have miraculously long good ones (Yanks, Braves) but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the BoSox are a weak team for a while.

        Their core is so shallow they can’t just spend to fix it, I would say. It will take time and development.

        • The interesting thing for me was the moves to dump A-Gon, Beckett and Crawford. That leads me to believe that they won’t be spending as much as other people think.

          This is also where the new CBA is going to really affect teams like the Yankees and Sox who made a killing over the years in signing the higher ceiling players that dropped to them in draft as a result of being perceived as difficult signs. They just won’t be able to restock their system as quickly when they drain it for their trade deadline acquisitions.

          That said, I’m not counting them out. They had an awful lot of injuries and I do think they have a very good front office when Larry Lucchino isn’t getting involved.

          • That’s possible but it looks like the red sox cleared the decks fro farrell & he will have more input in selecting the roster for 2013. Plus he has inside info from AA.

            AA probably told him who all the value village buys were.

            Very interesting offseason, especially if the red sox get the players AA wanted.

    • They’re like the original 6 in the NHL. They could be a big pile of shit (see Leafs), but people still want to play for them.

      • and like the Original Six, they go through long droughts between success (Rangers 54 years, Boston 40 years, Leafs 45 and counting, Montreal 20 years and counting, Detroit had a 40 year drought

  57. Well after the news conference today I guess one additional thing I learned from 2012 is that AA sure likes to gamble, or at worst, he’s been put in a position where he had no choice but to roll the dice. First, he gambles on a roster filled with question marks instead of adding some experienced talent, and now it looks like he gambled on getting the most out of a manager that wanted to leave after his first season.

    I guess the snide comments about wanting to charter him a jet out of town don’t look so bad in light of what’s been revealed today.

    At least this part is done. AA can now have Fussili Farrell removed from his ass.


    A “Million-To-One, Doc er uh Nadir”

    • opps Fusilli even

    • fuck are you an idiot. doing nothing is not gambling

      • In this case of course it was. He even admitted he made a mistake in trusting in the young guys too much. Take your head out of your ass and go and look at the quote. Then look at how much experience 60% of the rotation had to start the year. Then take a look at Adam Lind.

  58. I wrote this on the ‘TO catcher for Ranger pitching’ post before this post mercifully unleashed beautiful Farrell venom. I’ll repeat it here. What’s the consensus on Omar’s statements now? (I’m talking about the accountability stuff, not Yunel’s eyeblack stuff.) All of a sudden he seems vindicated in my mind, anyway. Omar to manage TBJs?

  59. and please God please, no Manny Acta – 2 and half years of futility in Washington followed by 3 years of futility in Cleveland – thanks but no fucking thanks (seriously Stoeten?? just because you hear he likes sabermetrics??)

    The sabermatrician in you should realize that Catchers are the best likely bet in managers – Alomar, Ausmus or persuade Darrin Fletcher to get in the mix.

    Managers who were catchers: Joes Maddon, Torre and Girardi; Jim Leyland, Bruce Bochy, Mikes Scoscia and Metheny, Gene Lamont. Eric Wedge and many more.

    • +1

      I’d be happy with either Alomar or Ausmus.

    • Don’t you think the talent that they had to work with had a far larger impact on their records than their actual skill as a manager? I think as fans we see only a small portion of what a manager does and the rest of the time what they do is done behind closed doors. That’s why I still think Drew said it best the other day when it came to passing judgements on these candidates.

      Drew F ‏@DrewGROF
      Your list of reasons favoring one hypothetical candidate over another is baloney.

      Having said that, the point about the catchers is a good one. I know they’ve been talking it up in the playoffs quite a bit. I would love to see a FanGraphs piece done on a managers record based on what position they played just for shits and giggles.

      • A big problem with that is selection bias.

        Do former catchers get so many chances to be managers because they are superior, or has it always been that way and are teams reluctant to stray away from tradition?

        • That’s why I said for shits and giggles because i don’t believe for a minute that a manager has nearly anywhere the input on a team’s performance compared to the talent on the roster. Also, a manager is not alone. As Farrell stated in his conference today, the other coaches, specifically, the pitching and hitting coaches play a big part in what the players are doing or aren’t doing. As the manager he’s not with them nearly as much as what those coaches are.

    • Agreed.

      Alomar. Fasano. Ausmus.

      In that order. For me.

  60. Who knows how ‘good’ any of these manager candidates are, but I think I want Manny Acta.

    1) He’s managed before 2) he’s supposedly very saber-metrically minded.

    • why?
      i agree that he probably is the most forward-thinking in terms of his on-field work, but he’s been fired twice by teams that probably thought the same thing. which leads to the thought: maybe he sucks at everything fans don’t see him doing?

      hard to know whether baseball orthodoxy has prevented him thriving and that toronto might be the perfect place for him, or whether he just sucks at all the other parts of being a manager and no one “wants to play” for him.

      • Look at the payrolls Acta’s teams had, though.

        Are we actually crediting Davey Johnson with all the players on the roster such as Strasburg, Gio, Harper etc that Acta did not have? If not, then I don’t really think it’s fair to blame Acta.

        Seemingly low payroll teams are more willing to take a gamble on sabermetrically-minded managers (Wash, Cle, TB, Oak). TO kinda fits in that boat as well and IF there is a payroll boost and a better team, I expect Acta’s quality in-game decisions will be more appreciated.

    • I DON’T want Acta.

      1) His record sucks 2) His record sucks because his teams collapse after the ASB.

  61. In retrospect, thank god we got rid of Farrell and didn’t waste another year.He admits to ” a lot of firsts” with the Jays.To go to the playoffs would have meant more “firsts”. Learning how to make tough decisions like sitting Arod or putting Lincecum to the bullpen is what playoff managers must do to win.Farrell allowed mistake after mistake with no accountabilty,could he make the decision to sit “star” undepreforming players?
    After saying he wanted the Boston job the first time, he went to Beeston and said” we okay?”
    Hire a manager who doesn’t need to go through the” firsts”. Fire the existing coaches and let the new guy hire his own.Let the players know you’re serious, kick ass and take names.Focus on team goals and winning every time you take the field.
    I love Lawrie but the next time you try to steal home with Bautista at the plate and shrug it off as being intense. You gonna ride the pine.
    I don’t want a manager who’s learning on the job, I want a manager who already knows.
    AA’s had his nose rubbed in it and every asst.GM and scout below him has seen it.
    I think some ass is about to be kicked.

    • Does that mean you’d be looking for someone like Guillen? He can certainly make the tough decisions, he’s been through the playoffs, he’s tough and demanding of his players. Hmmmm….

      • Always the devil’s advocate GSMC.
        Guillen is available and he’d probably be better than Farrell was but no.
        I’m looking for a guy in control.
        Guillen’s out of control.
        Farrell was out of control.
        A guy who can adapt to changing situations.Not one who has no idea what to do next because he has only one game plan.It’s common to most sports, it’s called strategy.
        The team that leaves spring training isn’t always the one you have at the end of the season.

        • Huh? Who knew? Ozzie coached for the Expos for a couple of years.

          Things wouldn’t be dull with Ozzie in charge, but he and AA would be like oil and water.

        • +1.

          The Jays don’t need a firecracker like Ozzie shooting his mouth off.

          He would have starngled escobar

    • +1. It is a learning experience for AA.

      However, he has used a mulligan.

      If his next manager doesn’t work out what happens??

      Does it make more sense to hire a manager from a small market team who is aware of payroll parameters & the ability to BS about Value Village pickups etc…

      Maybe AA gets more money for 2013 to fix the mess of Farrell dumping the Jays.

      An aside is that Jeff Blair sad that Shaun Marcum has zero chance of getting an offer from the Jays as long as AA is here becase of extenuating circumstances n tthe clubhouse.

      Did Marcum steal another player’s girlfriend/wife?

      Did he try marijuana or encourage other players to take drugs?

      There was always those starts missed with “flu like symptoms” Is this what it was about?

      I seem to recall marcum liked to party, so was he hungover for pitching starts?

      • “Did Marcum steal another player’s girlfriend/wife?

        Did he try marijuana or encourage other players to take drugs?”

        For fuck sakes Oakville. How would you like if someone made these kinds of suggestions about you with zero evidence?

        Actually, there is some evidence.

        “Does Oakville hate the poor stat-geek living who can’t afford to buy Jays’ season tickets?”

        “Does Oakville believe in racial profiling since he thinks Omar Vizquel was brought in to watch the Lations?” His words, not mine.

        “Why does Oakville confuse female commenters with one another?”

        Fuck off.

  62. everbody’s favourite choiche for manager?

    • Joe Maddon

    • Alomar

      • if i’m aa, the last thing i want is someone with close ties to management (through robbie) that can usurp my authority. i doubt alomar gets hired for that reason…if he does get hired, i doubt he’s aa’s choice.

        • There’s been little talk about any interviews. Does AA interview new candidates: Martinez, Wallach, Ausmus, etc. or does he go for a quick hire with one of the previous candidates?

        • Wasn’t there a rumor last time that AA wanted Alomar but the others on the committee picked Farrell??

          I vaguely recall something.

          I could see Beeston picking farrell because he came from the red sox.& looks like a manager.

        • It could be a positive rather than a negative.

    • In order:


    • In no particular order since I think all three would make good managers.

      D Martinez

      B Ausmus

      S Alomar

      I just hope who ever gets the job wants to manage the Blue Jays and not have one eye open for their “dream job”.

  63. In a perfect world?

    In an imperfect world, Sandy Alomar. It’s a Latino-heavy club and he’s a catcher. I always like catchers for managers. They see all the game. Pitchers just…pitch. Eh, Big John?

    • Yup. It makes me wonder, if AA & the Jays knew Farrell wanted to go , why not grant him his wish the day after the season ended & hire Francona ASAP.

      Francona would be well respected here & AA would regain his Ninja status.

      Francona played for the Expos & had a good time in spring training joking around with JPA doing his ESPN impersonations.

      Francona would relish the chance to be in the same division as the red sox.

      Can you imagine the excitement here if Francona was named manager.???

      Unfortunately, the Jays always seem to always be a few days late.

      Cue the AA..”we had talks..I talked to Paul… he talked to Scott Pelly .. who talked to the janitor at Nadir’s Mohammed’s office….but at the end of the day we couldn’t work it out… but we are excited about Sam Dyson who has the best stuff in the system… etc”

      • Yeah but for all we know they did make the call and got turned down. This isn’t Boston. What happens in the front office stays in the front office.

        • @Isabella.

          Do you think AA caled Francona & he said no.??

          It’s clear that Farrell knew a lot about the rd sox this year according to Greg Chisolm. He was up to date on the mega trade of the red sox to dodgers.

  64. I think Manny Acta fails because he was not actually that successful at baseball – there probably is something to commanding the respect of the players when the motto would be “do as I say, not as I did”

    Alomar and Ausmus can at least say they survived over 15 years in the majors due to their talent and ability to contribute even when their skills diminished mightily. They caught big league pitching, hit big league pitching, fought with umpires, played in playoff games, have witnessed many different managing styles and seen how it affects the room, etc, etc.

    Acta can only bring his minor league “baseball” experience to the table. I know Maddon may be the same, but the situation in Tampa is very unique with little to no media pressure and almost no expectations.

  65. Darrin Fletcher grooming should start now, start getting him back involved with the franchise. Probably the best catcher the Jays have had in last twenty years.

    Also, the pitcher to get Alomar and Ausmus to come here is “help us groom TDA, the best catching prospect in the game, and work with what may be the best crop of young pitchers in the pipeline” work your magic.

    My big concern re: Ausmus is whether his dream job is a return to Houston or San Diego or wait for the Dodgers (but maybe that one is Tim Wallach’s plan). As for Alomar, Cleveland seems to have stiff-armed him with the Francona hiring, and would that really be a dream job??

  66. Huh? Jim Leyland never made it to the majors. Tony Larussa had a .199 career BA and Bruce Bochy .239. I am sure their are plenty of other managers in the same boat. I won’t deny that being a successful player has a certain cache, but again, the talent on the field is going to ultimately determine how successful they are far more than their past accomplishments. I know it’s not baseball, buy Wayne Gretzky’s record as coach wasn’t exactly awe inspiring.

  67. I really, really, really hope Mike Aviles has an all-star season and helps the Jays make the post-season. It would be aweome to hear the people in Boston whine while their team rots in last place for a second straight year.

    • LOL! He could be the next Scutaro who the Jays plucked from obsucurity, then went as a free agent to Boston for 3 years then traded by the red sox.

      The Jays got their coveted draft pick for him when he went to the Sox.

      Now he is the NLCS MVP.

      I always liked Scutaro & thought he was a bright player who once stole 2B on a walk.

      Could Aviles be the next Scutaro??

      • he actually had a couple good seasons hitting for avg.. but which Aviles will show up ????

        • He was interviewed by C-Balls on TSN radio this afternoon and admitted that he changed his stroke in 2012 to try to hit for power, which did not go as intended (13 HR’s).

          As a result (and paraphrasing greatly) he will basically return to a focus on hitting for average and trying to have smart AB’s (i.e. focus on advancing runner if the situation dictates, etc.), fwiw.

  68. John Farrell fits perfect in Boston as he is a total douchebag just like the rest of their management and ownership ! It’s one thing to leave for a job you really want but don’t go there and then start running your mouth about the jays ! Throwing AA under the bus and trying to deflect any negative attention off himself shows what kinda person he really is. The best thing AA and ownership can do now is to put together a winning staff , sign some big FA’s and beat the Sox like red headed stepchildren every chance they get. I will revel in seeing the sox in last place again next year.

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