As expected, first base coach and outfield instructor Torey Lovullo will not remain with the Jays, joining John Farrell– who brought him to town with him two years ago, when Lovullo was the manager of the Pawtucket Red Sox– in Boston, according to an MLB.com report, and many others.

This, of course, takes his name out of the running to replace Farrell as the Jays’ manager– a vacancy that has somewhat suddenly vaulted its way to the top of the off-season to-do list for Alex Anthopoulos. But plenty of other names are being bandied about in various quarters. For example…

Jeff Blair has made the managerial search the subject of a lot of chatter on his show on the Fan 590 this week, offering a great deal of insight. Today, as passed along by @BringVottoHome (because there’s far too much on this subject elsewhere at the moment for me to go back and start transcribing things), he said that many feel that Sal Fasano ends up on the staff one way or another– note: awesome– and also that he hadn’t heard Jim Tracy’s name and doesn’t think he’d be a fit– note: triple fucking awesome.

Blair said that his impression was that the search begins with Sandy Alomar– who interviewed very well last time, and was reported to be the runner-up to John Farrell– but that the club might be more inclined towards someone with credentials and “knowledge” (which might be read as executive-like or player development knowledge), like Farrell.

Or maybe it just means somebody who has actually managed a game at some level. This leads Blair to suggest– again via @BringVottoHome– that Don Wakamatsu may be a leading option, though I think it would describe Manny Acta just as well. And for all the talk about Alomar, I think it needs to be remembered that it was Acta’s staff that he was on when he interviewed here two years ago, that as a manager himself Acta wasn’t able to be interviewed at the time, and that he has a connection to Alex Anthopoulos– he was third base coach in Montreal when AA was cutting his teeth– as well as assistant GM Dana Brown, who was there in Montreal as well, and in Washington, where Acta managed from 2007 to 2009 (he was fired during that season, and Brown left for the Jays mid-October).

“One thing about Manny Acta,” Blair added on Tuesday’s show, “I’ve always remembered this about him: when he managed the Dominican Republic’s team in the World Baseball Classic, he had a lot of personalities, he had a lot of guys who– frankly– weren’t entirely certain they wanted to be on that team. They played well; Albert Pujols raved about him; Jose Bautista raved about him. That’s something to keep in mind.”

He later added, however, that “I still think, from a distance, that Sandy Alomar Jr. is the leading contender.”

As of yesterday afternoon, though, according to a tweet from Cleveland beat writer Jordan Bastian, the Jays had yet to contact Alomar about the vacancy. Meanwhile, Robert MacLeod of Globe and Mail spoke to Wakamatsu, who says he’s interested.

Ken Rosenthal tweets a few additional names into the mix– though he’s hardly the first to suggest them, it’s just the other reports don’t bring the authority of a Rosenthal stamp of approval. Tim Wallach, DeMarlo Hale and Pat Hentgen are others he suggests, though Hentgen spoke to Jeff Sammut of the Fan 590 today (audio here), and reiterated what Blair has been hearing, suggesting that Anthopoulos and Beeston are leaning towards a manager with experience.

Seriously, Manny Acta. (I’ll point out again posts from Walk Like A Sabermatrician and Detroit Sports Rag that will give you an idea why I say so.)

John Lott of the National Post adds a few other names to watch, like Brad Ausmus, Brian Butterfield (who from my understanding has been rather open about not wanting a seat in the big chair anymore), and Dave Martinez, plus darkhorse candidates Brad Mills (ex of Houston), Ryne Sandberg and Yankee men Tony Pena and Rob Thomson.

Jays Journal also looked at some guys they term darkhorses– specifically Ausmus, Wallach and Ryne Sandberg, while Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun attempts to handicap the field, throwing out a shit-tonne of names (including absurd suggestions Cito Gaston and Ernie Whitt), and putting Jim fucking Tracy up with Alomar and Acta as the odds-on favourites, while throwing Rangers pitching coach Mike Maddux into the mix as well.

Elsewhere, Keith Law tweeted this week that he wonders if Doug Davis, who is already with the Jays as their minor league coordinator, might get some consideration.

Also interestingly, perhaps, according to a tweet from Nationals cheerleader and Washington Post reporter Adam Kilgore, apparently the Jays have not contacted Nats bench coach and Davey Johnson heir apparent Randy Knorr, who you very possibly don’t remember was on both of the Jays’ World Series teams. He’s not quite an Alomar in terms of nostalgic cache, but there’s another name to keep in mind. Though I still have a feeling it’s going to be Acta, which, of course, I base on absolutely nothing.

Comments (141)

  1. I hope you are correct about Acta. Maybe he can bring Sandy Alomar over with him as Bench Coach or 1B coach (with Waka taking the other role).

  2. I don’t know anything about him (or any of the other candidates) but curious – how come Fasano’s name is in the mix but not Brown’s?

    • Moustache.

    • Brown? The Vegas/Buffalo manager? Don’t know. But actually, he managed the Bisons when they were part of the Cleveland organization, so maybe there’s a comfort with having him there? I think they think it’s at least a selling point in the city– they won the International League when he was there.

      Just guessing, though, I honestly don’t know.

    • It doesn’t sound like Fasano is in the mix to be the manager, per se, just that he could easily wind up as a coach on the team, like a bench coach.

      It kind of makes sense too. Going back a month or so ago, when the Jays announced their affiliation with Buffalo, the question was asked to AA if Fasano was a candidate to manage that team, and AA kind of oddly shot it down. If in his mind he viewed Fasano as a good choice to join the big league team as a coach (given all the commotion behind the scenes we’re hearing about, he could have sensed there would be vacancies), that could explain how he was so certain Fasano wouldn’t be in that role.

  3. Acta makes a lot of sense. The only thing that in some sense may hold him back is the optics of having been fired from two jobs – but how do you get a guy with managerial experience in the MLB that hasn’t been fired? (Well, unless your the f’ing Red Sox. F John Farrell.)

    I think Acta or Alomar wind up the manager. I wonder if there’s a scenario where Alomar gets the job, and if he has a close relationship with Acta from Cleveland, Acta joins him as bench coach, even if just for a year or two.

  4. I would have to assume that AA would want someone who would manage the game like it was himself in the dugout. So if that means Acta with his sabr-mindedness is the closest then he should be the odds on favourite. Or in house candidates that AA hired too, like Wak, Butters and Sal.

    • Butters preceded AA on the Jays, and I was under the impression that it was Farrell who brought Wak over.

      • You are correct about Butters, my bad. I am not sure if Wak was hired or brought over though.

        • I don’t think Wak was a Farrell guy– the Globe piece notes that he interviewed for the main gig, and came over otherwise after not getting it. If there’s a connection, it’s not from either being teammates or being in any of their prior organizations at the same time.

          Doesn’t mean there wasn’t some kind of prior relationship there, but doesn’t look like it.

  5. My top five would be alomar jr, wallach, ausmus, acta, and dave martinez in no particular order. Of course, I base it on absolutely nothing other than me liking their credentials and past work history. Although, im a bit concerned ausmus might have some john “red sox are my dream job” farrell in him since hes from there.

    • Yeah, I don’t see Ausmus as a fit (in the Jays eyes) with no coaching or managerial experience, and the sense that he could be a jumper.

  6. Mannie Acta has not yet succeeded as a manager with two very different organizations. I get that he’s great with latino players, which might make a difference here. I don’t see Joe Torre on that list, although, as Sammut has said over and over, the Jays need to at least make the call.

    • he coached the nats and indians, what coach would have found success with those rosters?

      the idea that a coach is only succesful when he wins is ridiculous.. Joe Girardi is the worst or atleast close to, the worst manager in baseball. Yet he has a winning record. big whoop.

      • Further to this, don’t you think that the fact he managed LOW PAYROLL teams had something to do with his lack of success?

        I’m quite sure the Nationals are still in the playoffs THIS YEAR with Acta as manager. It has a lot more to do with Strasburg, Gio, Harper et al than Davey Johnson.

        • exactly.. good players make a good manager, good managers don’t make good players.

          as a baseball manager you just have to be prepared and make moves that make sense in the longterm using splits and data. You just can’t lose a game for a team and you’ll be fine.

          Whats shocking to me is that Maddon is considered to be the best manager by a long shot yet managers in his mold (proactive, smart ) don’t seem to be popping up.

          • @dc

            I think lower payroll teams are more likely to gamble on forward thinking managers.

            It’ll be slow, but I think in about 10 years the old school will have mostly died out and the majority will be progressive. Not unlike what has happened with MLB front offices.

            I just hope Alex makes what he feels is the right decision for the team, and not a PR move to appease the loud and stupid part of the fanbase.

            Because a lot of fans will yell if Acta is hired based on his winning percentage.

        • Oh really? Well in case it escaped your notice this is a LOW PAYROLL team as well.

          • @ Isabella

            The fact that Rogers are cheap does not refute my point.

            WASH & CLE were not exactly serious about winning while Acta was there. This is no way proves he was or was not pushing the right buttons.

        • The Nats would also likely be in the playoffs if Riggleman hadn’t played the “pick up my option for next year or I’m out of here tonight” card last year.

      • I don’t agree with you at all about Joe Girardi. Definitely not the best, obviously. But I do agree with the sentiment. Just because a guy doesn’t win one place doesn’t mean he won’t win anywhere.

        I’ll be happy with whomever AA thinks is best – I honestly don’t know enough about the relative merits of the candidates. All I know is he’d better make absolutely fucking certain that he’s not hiring a guy who has a passionate desire to manage for another team as soon as possible, especially if that team is the one you just fucking hired him from. Maybe add that to the “what is your greatest weakness?” list of staple interview questions from now on Alex…

        • how could you possibly disagree about girardi

          the yankees win despite girardi not because of him, his moves make no sense, he makes pitching changes in blow outs and he alienates his players on a personal level.

          terrible fuckin manager.

    • Doesn’t Joe Torre work in the front office? He won’t leave that job to Manage

  7. Another name struck me: Tigers third-base coach Gene Lamont. He was the non-Farrell runner-up for the Sox job last year when they hired Bobby the Clown instead. Lamont’s a “baseball lifer” (if that term suits you) with previous managerial experience and managerial success. Discounting his few seasons managing a team of minor leaguers masquerading as the Pirates in the late 1990s, Lamont managed some good White Sox teams in the early 1990s and won 1993 Manager of the Year after he took the White Sox to the ALCS that season (which of course they lost to the Jays). I guess it’s because Lamont’s team is still playing that his name hasn’t been mentioned, but I’d at least give him a call. If the Jays are really looking for a guy with experience maybe Lamont is the type of veteran face who could bring discipline and winning experience this club needs. But that’s just one stray thought. So many names being tossed around, why don’t I throw mine in too?

  8. I’m ok with Acta or Alomar Jr. Or both of them on the staff.

    Keep Butterfield. And Hentgen as pitching coach? No one mentions Bruce Walton staying or going at all.

    Just for FYI, Tony Pena is Encarnacion’s father in law (or at least EE knocked up Pena’s daughter. Don’t know if he actually put a ring on it.)

    I don’t know if bringing Pena in would happen while EE is a productive member of the Jays.

    • I believe they are married.

    • Hentgen was the bullpen coach two years ago, and left that position to be a roving instructor to spend more time with his family. Hard to figure he’d want the pitching coach job if Walton left.

  9. Apparently, Ausmus blew people away in Boston. Negative is that he has no experience. Reality is that he might choose to pursue other options, to pad his resume.

    I would be okay with Alomar Jr. or even Acta. So long as ITS NOT FUCKING JIM TRACY.

  10. My crazy fucking baseless speculation:

    Manager – Manny Acta
    Bench Coach – Sandy Alomar
    1B Coach – Sal Fasano
    3B Coach – Butter
    Pitching Coach – Bruce Walton
    Hitting Coach – Dwayne Murphy
    Special Assistant – Chad Mottola

    Rivera leaves to Boston. If Butter goes too, Mottola gets bumped up to a base coach.

    • I don’t think Sandy would take a bench coach spot. Seems like he’s on the shortlist for every manager search recently

      • Well if he gets hired as a manager, I see him obviously not taking it. But if he doesn’t get the job in Colorado, or get any managerial offers, I could see him coming. After all, he is close to Acta, and his role with the Indians is undetermined with Acta being gone.

        • You’re right about that – especially tough for a guy to go from interim manager back to bench coach on the same team. We’ll see – I’d be happy with Acta though.

    • Alomar isn’t going to make a lateral move

      and chances are that they won’t move fasano up, they probably want him to keep managing in the minors

      • Did you not read “he said that many feel that Sal Fasano ends up on the staff one way or another”

        Plus, it may or may not be a lateral move. The Indians haven’t told Alomar what his new role with the Indians will be. He may get dumped down to a base coach, as normally the new manager brings in his own guy as the bench coach.

    • Weirder is this Manager- Sandy Alomar
      Bench- Manny Acta
      1b coach- Ricky Henderson (was the Mets at one time)
      3b- butter
      Pitching – Hentgen
      Hitting – Robbie
      Special Assistant – Mottola.

    • Dwayne Murphy?

      GTFO.

  11. The main thing I care about is that it’s quick. I see no reason why this should be announced more than a day after the World Series.

    AA had already interviewed most of these guys and if he wants someone with managerial experience who was not available 2 years ago…it shouldn’t take that long to interview Acta and, god forbid, Jim Tracey.

  12. I know its a minor thing, and probably partially due to Robbie, but looks like Sandy’s already got some relationship formed with the club as he’s partaking in their coaches clinic this year. Only non-ex-Jays player to be doing so too if I’m not wrong.

    http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/tor/baseball_academy/coaches_clinic.jsp#tab2

  13. I’m not positive that I understand the relevance of Sabermetrics to managing a baseball team. I suppose its important when it comes to WPA situations and/or bullpen usage but my impression is that managing comes down to a million micro decisions whereas sabermetrics mostly measure macro trends (hence SSS disclaimers).

    Having said that, I would be totally down with Manny Acta; he seems fiery…

    On a totally related note, how much fun could the Jays bullpen be next year? Off the top of my head Janssen and Santos (for sure), Lincoln and Delabar (potentially) and Loup (LOOGY) are all basically shutdown guys. If we got a smart manager, I can imagine that being a huge boost for us; especially one, like Acta, willing to prioritize leverage in deciding how to order his relievers.

    • Off the top of my head, a saber friendly manager wont do stupid stuff like not running in stupid situations, and none of that small ball crap and sac bunts and intentional walks, plus actually looking at pitching splits for bullpen management..

    • Not to be a buzz kill, but bullpens are entirely unpredictable. They had a “great” bullpen coming into this season and look how that turned out.

      Lincoln and Delabar last season are a perfect example, Lincoln came in as a good shutdown reliever and shit the bed. Delabar came in as a fringe guy who gave up a ton ob bombs, and lit it up.

    • Its been said a number of times, but give any manager the right players and allow him to put them in the right position to succeed and good things should happen.

      A strong bullpen is definitely one thing to be excited about.

      What about full (and hopefully healthy) years outta 3 and 4 holes in the lineup of Bautista and Encarnacion.
      A better offensive season from Lawrie, hopefully not needed in the leadoff role – I still want to see him somewhere where he can drive in runs.

      And just not a goddamn lineup with Kelly effin Johnson and Yunel “eye black” Escobar batting in the 4/5 spots for christ’s sake.

      I just want them to pick a manager soon and get to filling the other obvious holes in this lineup because even though it doesnt really look like it after this year, there is plenty to build off of.

      Acta or Alomar Jr, IMO.

  14. Keith Law tweet Doug Davis as a potential fit the other day. He’s our minor league coordinator, I believe, and could fit the “knowledge” criteria (assumably).

    • KLaw also mentioned Doug Davis again on TSN radio that day, and said peeps in the Jays Front Office speak very highly of him fwiw.

  15. I’m not sure if the Jays are an organization best suited for Acta I see this a lot, and have seen it in some replies above – there seems to be this misconception that AA is a sabermetrician. While I don’t doubt that he takes a holistic approach and is up-to-date on the latest in statistical analysis, he’s a scout by trade. He was a scouting co-ordinator with the Expos and came up in the Blue Jays organization on the scouting side. If he wanted to pick somebody that thinks exactly like him, it’s not going to be Manny Acta.

    For what it’s worth, the Jays front office is actually not that progressive among major league teams in terms of analytics. The Rays and Indians in particular, have entire analytic departments full of former BP and FanGraphs writers and statisticians with multiple advanced degrees and impressive resumes. Joe Maddon is who he is, partially because he’s open-minded and to his credit, is able to apply analytics on the field in an effective manner, but also because he has the support of an analytics army that is working on projects and identifying things that people in the public sphere haven’t enough thought of and because this analytics army is identifying undervalued players that other teams discard without second thought. The Rays are arming Maddon with a bevy of information every single day as to how he can best win that night’s game, and Maddon has to use that information to his advantage.Certainly Acta can be helpful in terms of common sabermetric principles in terms of lineup construction and bunting and things like that, but the organizational support and philosophy is not yet there in Toronto for Acta to be best armed with his openness to analytics.

    • Yeah, I don’t think AA is much of a saber guy either. I don’t think this organization discards the value of statistics at all, but the Jays seem to rely on their scouts quite a bit for player evaluation.

    • The Jays do have at least two SABR guys in their FO/consulting team w/ Joe Sheehan (not the BP one) and Tom Tango, known in the internet community as Tangotiger.

      • From what’s publicly displayed, they have 1 full-time employee and at least 1 (likely more) consultant. That’s pretty normal for MLB, but the saber-friendly teams like Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Houston, St. Louis (off the top of my head) have anywhere from 3 to 6 or more people working full-time on analytics, with many more consultants.

        I’m not saying the Jays discount analytics by any means, but they don’t appear to be on or anywhere near the cutting edge either.

        • Oh I see the clear difference dude for sure was just adding a bit of detail for those who may get the impression that they had none.

          Joe Sheehan was with Anthopoulos at last years winter meetings as said in the Toronto Sun. And Tom Tango is listed as employed by them in Wikipedia fwiw.

    • I’m not sure I entirely agree with this.

      Yes, the Jays are (rightfully, imo) a scout-heavy organization. But this isn’t an either/or scouts vs stats dichotomy.

      The fact that AA came up as a scout doesn’t mean he doesn’t value stats enough.

      I mean, part of the appeal of Farrell presumably was that he had front office experience and a familiarity with analytics.

      Which is why I honestly think Acta is the guy. Although that’s probably at least partially because I want him to be the guy.

  16. I wouldn’t be surprised by either Alomar or Acta. Both have connections with this administration/organization in their own way.

  17. The one thing that’s a drag about losing Farrell, is that if the Jays hire a new manager with no major league managing experience, you wonder if there will be a learning curve.

    Based on that alone, plus the sabermetric stuff, I think I’m hoping for Acta.

    If not him? Yeah anyone but Tracy. Alomar or Wallach sound fine.

  18. This is sort of how I can envision it playing out, if my hope of Acta is realized:

    Manager – Acta
    Bench Coach – Whomever Acta desires
    Third Base Coach – Butterfield
    First Base Coach – Fasano (although I believe he’d fit better as a bench coach, usually that’s a manager’s pick and not necessarily someone tabbed by the organization)
    Hitting Coach – Mottola
    Pitching Coach – ?!??!?
    Bullpen Coach – Pete Walker, again, maybe?
    Lineup Calligrapher – Don Wakamatsu (and nothing beyond that, please).

    • Walton’s not getting fired I don’t think.

      • Okay, first, no coaches get “fired” — they are all on one-year deals that expire at the end of the season. He may or may not be retained.

        Second, Walton may very well not be retained, in part because the results were not ideal last year, notwithstanding injuries (primarily think about Romero, Cecil, Alvarez, even Brad Lincoln [FIP of 4.91 with Jays]). Maybe those aren’t all top arms, but having guys in their mid-20s who aren’t producing as they have in the past is a bit troubling.
        (Perhaps Alvarez excluded, as he had a more typical ‘growing pain’ year, he is only 22. Although holy shit, maybe he could be taught another pitch?!)

        • Have to say Drabek wasnt doing well either…and he kept forgeting his mechanics. Papi may be a nice guy but apart from one or two things like fixing Delabar, I’m not impressed.

    • Why do we hate Waka?

  19. Everyone else has an irrational love for Fasano due to his moustache, mine lies with Dave Martinez and his beard.

  20. Felipe Alou or bust.

  21. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m ready for a trade. Enough of this boring manager crap.

    • Be patient friend.

      AA will no doubt pick up some trash on the waiver wire tomorrow.

      And then he’ll dump him on Sunday for another piece of poo.

  22. Step 1. Manny Acta.
    Step 2. Shin-Soo Choo.

  23. The two things the jays have been constantly unimpressive with over the past 5 years is….

    1. An inability to have substantial winning streaks, and/or bunches of wins.

    2. A poor inter-leauge record relative to its Al competitors.

    Jim Tracy knows how to manage a win/hot streak!

    Jim Tracy knows the National League!

    Could we just skip the formalities and give him the job already people.

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  25. Something I’m always worried about is an organization’s dependance on sabermetrics.
    The numbers may not lie, but they certainly are frequently misread.
    In a lot of cases, excessive dependance on stats are the attempt, by those who don’t instinctively understand the game, to find a way to explain every little inch of our game.
    That simply can’t be done – which does NOT mean one should simply abandon metrics altogether.

    What I’m trying (in a bumbling sort of way) to get at here is that I’d rather see someone who understands the metrics but also has cred (preferrably as a player, not/not just as a manager) and understands that you’re not the players’ friend – that elusive Daddy figure that can get inside everyone’s heads and make them PLAY.

    Maybe it’s “Hey, you realize that, when you take the first pitch, your average jumps thirty points”. Maybe it’s “You’re not trying enough. Get your head out of your ass.” Maybe it’s even, “Hey…maybe you need to go out when we get on the road. Pick a buddy and go get tanked and laid.” (that last one was the Keith Hernandez SlumpBuster…)

    All in all, I just want a cautionary note (not that I’m the Great Baseball God or anything) slid in here, and I’ll quote Darth Vader (baseball AND Star Wars in one post?!? Good Lord);

    “I find your lack of faith…disturbing…”

    Don’t forget the soul of the game, either. After all, them there stats come from human beings.

  26. Maybe I am the only one who thinks this but what about Jim Riggleman?

  27. Someone is going to snap up Brad Ausmus after the Jays shit the bed and sign Acta.
    Ausmus will turn into one of the great managers of our time.

    Just a feeling. I’ll save this page so I can gloat in a few years when Acta get’s shitcanned.

    • I’m with you on this one smasher. If we chip in and get him a dry suit, he can surf in Lake Ontario.

  28. Am I the only one that wants Ozzie?

  29. I think the people should be far more concerned with just how much money Rogers is going to spend this coming winter on fixing the rotation. I mean we could have a manager that’s somehow able to channel Knute Rockne every night and exhort his team to go out and “win one for the Gipper”, but if the rotation ends up anything like it did last year where you have Happ and Alvarez both in it, this team is still likely to finish around .500. With Romero completely and utterly shitting the bed in 2012 you have additional uncertainty there and even with Morrow to some extent. Though I will grant you it looks like Morrow has finally turned the corner, it’s still less than one complete season of dominance. At the end of the day the rotation is going to make or break this team not the manager.

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  31. I hear Tim Johnson just returned from a tour in Afghanistan. Let’s look him up.

  32. Was Acta fired from Cleveland because Francona was available? Were they unhappy with him, or did they an opportunity to hire a great manager with (small) ties to the organization and jumped at the chance?

  33. Since the reign of Cito I, what has been the average tenure of a Blue Jays manager? Haven’t done the math, but it feels short. Not the sign of a great organization. I hope AA makes a more inspired selection than his first hire. Better get this one right.

    • Since Cito Gaston’s halcyon days, it does seem like it’s been a merry-go-round of short managerial stints for the Jays. Actually though John Gibbons lasted parts of five seasons, falling to parts of three seasons for Carlos Tosca and Cito 2.0, then Jim Fregosi, Buck Martinez and John Farrell at two.

      But it’s not like they lasted much longer in our early days either – before Cito Prime, Bobby Cox and Jimy Williams stuck around parts of just four seasons each. So the only “long-term” managerial tenure this club has ever had really is Cito at stints of seven and three. With 36 seasons under the Jays’ belts, this is kind of disappointing.

      What’s more unfortunate to me though is that setting aside our four interim-only managers, nine of our 11 permanent managers were rookie hires. This isn’t to say that first-time managers aren’t going to work out – Cito did well for us. But as an ongoing hiring strategy, it seems like a speculative and higher-risk approach.

      To wit, of these nine first-timers, only two so far (Jimy One-M and now Darth Farrell) have gotten another kick at the can at being managers elsewhere. This hardly seems like a ringing endorsement of the Jays’ ability to scout and develop fresh talent on the managerial front.

      The caveat in all this though would be how all this compares to other clubs. Having managers tap out at four or five seasons (three of them plus Cito) is probably respectable, and other teams may very well have their fair share of managers with stints of two or three seasons. It may also not be that unusual to see a lot of managers who never get another shot at the big chair.

      None of this makes me feel all that better though, as the Jays should be aspiring to more than league average or mediocrity in their managerial hiring. It’d be nice to find another guy we can have a long-term relationship with, but then that’s easier said than done in baseball as it is in life.

      Personally though, I’d prefer we put more emphasis on managerial experience in our hiring, though going by rumours for other managerial vacancies, it doesn’t seem like we’re the only club look mostly at rookie hires. But then there’s degrees of first-timers, and if we do get another rookie, I’d be more comfortable if it was one with minor-league managerial experience, preferably who’s also been an MLB coach.

      Or we could just break our mould and go again for a guy who’s actually done the job before.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toronto_Blue_Jays_managers#Managers

  34. This article is a good addition to the discussion at hand. Gives a great perspective on things from the front office for a smaller market team. Also has some stuff on Manny Acta in Cleveland and their front office view on a manager’s role.

    I do think they’re $/WAR figure is way out there and I only found the post in the first place because Dave Cameron was a bit confused by it as well.

    http://www.foxsportsohio.com/10/24/12/A-conversation-with-the-Indians-Mark-Sha/landing_indians1.html?blockID=809163&feedID=3652

    • their not they’re

    • Well, he’s saying it’s $9M per WAR on the free agent market – that when you look at what team’s are paying guys they sign, they wind up paying $9M per WAR. That’s obviously weighted up by some of the giant overpays you get in free agency.

  35. Ryne Sandberg is already spoken for on an MLB staff…and it only happened three weeks ago, so I don’t see him pulling a “Super Farrell” and asking out of his new position for his dream job of being an MLB manager:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/phillies/2012/10/04/philadelphia-phillies-add-ryne-sandberg-to-coaching-staff/1614373/

  36. I want Ozzie, there’s a strong possibility the Jay’s are going to be bad-mediocre next year so they might as well be entertaining

  37. Could Cito on a one year deal be in the cards?

  38. Is Buck Martinez in the mix?

    • He’s already been hired as Assistant GM for hair consultations. Focus groups just didn’t think Colby had it going in 2012. The team figured they could improve their $/WEAVE mark to league bests in 2013 with Buck guiding them.

      • Colby started off strong, but it all went a little hairy as the hot, humid dog days of summer dragged on. Hopefully, Buck can help him get back on track for 2013.

      • $/WEAVE = me spitting coffee on my work computer…well played, sir

  39. They should hire Maggie the Monkey and put her big wheel next to her in the dugout with all managerial decisions on it – hit and run, bunt, steal etc….

    As arbitrary as any difference a manager can make according to Stotes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTB7pagq2wg

  40. Here’s my top choices in order of preference, for the two pesos that it’s worth:

    1) Don Wakamatsu (assuming he is well regarded by the players) as he has previous MLB managerial experience (which is almost a must, so that we don’t go through as many strategic errors from somebody going through a gigantic learning curve) and is familiar with what AA is trying to build/knows what assets and liabilities are on the roster. He is also a former catcher, which seems to be the preferred position to draw from for managers, fwiw.

    2) Manny Acta – previous managerial experience (though the late season collapses with the Indians are pause for concern) and presumably would be a good hire for/influence on the Latino/Hispanic (future) core of the Jays (Hech, Joey Bats, EE, Romero, etc.).

    3) Ozzie Guillen – yes, he may be going batshit crazy, but he definitely has quality managerial experience, and may be best suited for a team like the Jays where there is a good mix of younger veterans who don’t have All Star sized egos (which would clash with Ozzie’s egomaniacal tendancies) and young talent in development. His over-the-top energy and edge would work with guys like Lawrie, but he would also be able to kick ass if Lawrie tries to steal home with Bautista at the plate. He would also likely energize the casual fan base, if only in a “watching a train derailment” sort of way.

    4) Dave Martinez – the one exception to my ‘must have MLB managerial experience’ rule because being a coach on Maddon’s staff for five years (including bench coach) has got to be the next best thing.
    As an added bonus, he could fly direct from Pearson to visit the Castro brothers in Cuba during the off-season (hey, T.O.’s got to appeal as a destination to somebody for SOME reason, right?)

    I would bring in Sandy Alomar Jr. as the bench coach if possible, but not as manager, due to no previous managerial experience.

    • …sorry, the ‘added bonus’ under Martinez obviously is meant to go under Guillen’s write-up

      • I can’t argue there, Pudge. Solid. Wonder if Wakamatsu (who deserves another chance, seriously) might not be tainted by the Farrell legacy. Unfair? Most certainly.

        For my two cents (worth about a buck-forty by the time Uncle Steven gets done with it)…when it comes to “the handshake test”, Fasano’s got that ‘feel’ to him (however invalid that’s going to sound).
        Whenever he’s interviewed (just to grab the first one I found, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4oBf4OG_Cg, check out the 0:20 mark onwards for those who hate boneheaded ballplayers) there’s a consistant theme – “I expect more out of my ballplayers. No more bullshit.” Accountability at its’ BEST – if someone fs the dog on a Fasano team, we the fans will know a) why and b) what’s being done to fix it, el pronto.

        (I also love him because he hates the word “swag” – check out 2:55 onwards. “Anything that promotes style over substance doesn’t go good towards a team atmosphere.”)

        Guy’s got a World Series ring, and though I’d honestly take anyone from Pudge’s list (might hold my nose and breath with Guillen, but still), I gotta go with the guy who my subconscious can see celebrating and shaking hands in the Jays’ dugout – the players would buy Sal, the fans would buy Sal, AA would trust Sal…and he would love being here, too.

        Not much question about THIS guy’s loyalties (and that counts, doesn’t it? We don’t want ANOTHER “Laissez-Farrell”)

        • Thanks for the comments Mark. I love your comments about Fasano. The handshake test and the hatred of the word swag would, to my mind, make him comparable to Ozzie in a very good way.

          My thoughts with Fasano:

          - must be on MLB coaching staff of the new manager (so that he can get acclimated to coaching at MLB…though admittedly, his role as a back-up MLB catcher probably gave him some similar experience).
          - must not be the new manager, yet. While he would likely be more qualified than “Laissez-Farrell” (love that moniker) was when hired by AA, his lack of MLB coaching/managing experience keeps him just short of the top of the list.

          Let’s put him at #5, with an MLB job on the Jays staff in ’13.

      • ‘Buck’ Martinez?

    • “yes, he may be going batshit crazy” is a hellavu caveat to start off an endorsement of Ozzie Guillen, LOL. Batshit crazy ain’t going to fly in Toronto.

      Don Wakamatsu deserves consideration, but if you were AA he’d have to convince you pretty hard how he was going to set a different tone in the clubhouse. Also as Bench coach, wouldn’t he’d have a lot of input into the game-running decisions that Farrell took heat for? There’s no reason why things can’t change decidedly when promoting internally with a coach, but you’d have to take a close look at what his role was in things that didn’t go right and how he’d change things.

      My exception to the ‘must have MLB managerial experience’ would be DeMarlo Hale. He’s got nine years of managing at pretty much every minor-league level (A, A+. AA. AAA) and that counts for a lot in my book – much more than MLB coaching experience. But then he’s also got 11 seasons of that too (1B, 3B, Bench), under Buck Showalter and Terry Francona who are no slouches in the role-model department.

      That’s 20 years of managerial/coaching experience for a guy who’s only one year older than John Farrell. I like his resume a lot and if you’re going to go with a rookie MLB manager, this guy’s paid his dues and then some.

      http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/manager.asp?P=DeMarlo-Hale

      • Great points, jabalong. I will give Wakamatsu the benefit of the doubt and assume for the time being that Farrell had final say on everything, and was a dick about it in the process.

        I hadn’t really thought of Hale as an option, but looking at the link that you provided, I would slot him in as the #2 option behind Wakamatsu, based on the length and type of coaching/managing experience he has (hell, I would have hired him over Farrell, if Hale was indeed one of the finalists with Alomar Jr., Farrell, and Butters, in 2010). Hale would be my choice if AA feels that Wakamatsu deserves a share of the blame with Farrell.

  41. I think Hale would be a good choice as well, and keep Wakamatsu as bench coach. As far as the rest of the staff, I think they should clean house. Not impressed with the job Walton has done. While Morrow has progressed well, the inability of the rest of the staff to throw strikes is, to me, a reflection of Walton’s ineffectiveness. I also believe that with the upcoming youth and the nature of their abilities, it’s time to pass the baton to Mottola as hitting coach. After a number of years of floundering, I think this team needs some new perspectives.

    • I don’t have anything against Wakamatsu, but if he doesn’t get the gig, I don’t think he should be foisted on the new manager. My understanding is it was AA’s idea to hire him and though there is no evidence Farrell and Waka didn’t work well together, Bench Coach is one position I’d prefer to let a new manager put his own guy in on. It’s really a sounding board position for the manager and it ought to be someone he’s close to and in sync with. It doesn’t have to be that way of course, but that would be my preference. If so, wouldn’t have any objection to Waka in another role if there’s one for him.

    • But it’s really hard to speculate on the coaches, especially Bench Coach, until we know who the manager is. If someone like Alomar gets the gig, who’s never managed at any level, then I think AA would have to push to have a Bench Coach with experience (and presumably Alomar would want that too), whether it’s Wakamatsu or someone else. On the other hand, if you bring in a manager with experience as an MLB manager like Manny Acta or as a minor-league manager and MLB Bench Coach like DeMarlo Hale, then that makes it less of an issue what the Bench Coach’s experience is.

  42. jabalong,
    Good point. I suppose my thinking was that having a bench coach with some managerial experience would be beneficial. Can’t disagree with your perspective though.

  43. Greg Zaun. He’s the man. Hire him.

  44. Wasn’t Randy Knorr manager of the Syracuse Chiefs under the Blue Jays regime in the mid 2000′s?

  45. I think the Jays should hire Tabs. His head is so far up AA’s ass anyway..

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