Today in MLBTR: November 1st

I still can’t say for certain that this will become a regular feature around here this winter, but again today, with all kinds of movement starting to happen on the trade and free agent markets, and all kinds of decisions being made on players throughout the league who may wind up having some bearing on the Jays’ plans for the off-season, I think it will be a valuable exercise to comb through the latest from the astonishingly fantastic and comprehensive MLB Trade Rumors and add some Jays-related context to whatever is going on out there…

The Boston Red Sox are one of many teams interested in Dan Haren, who the Angels intend to deal in order to save cash to try and keep Zack Greinke, and I think a lot of people would be very upset if the Jays weren’t, as well– especially with Rogers and their abject failure when it comes to keeping payroll in line with salary inflation, which appears to be ready to take a huge leap forward league-wide, just as the Jays are scraping up to an almost respectable level for the fiscal environment in the rear-view mirror. Ugh. But on the bright side, there was talk of the Red Sox hilariously looking at taking Vernon Wells to make the deal happen– though it’s since been shot down, unfortunately.

Sticking with the Red Sox, it sounds as though the club and David Ortiz aren’t as close to a deal as was believed as recently as this morning, and the DH may end up being unsigned through Friday night, which would allow other clubs to come a-calling. The Jays absolutely have to get in on that, even if it’s just to drive up the price and stick it to those Masshole shits. If I’m Ortiz, even if I have no intention of leaving, I totally hit the market, feeling confident there will be offers out there to trump whatever the Red Fux are offering.

Cue people whining about the Jays’ coaching ranks being raided even though they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about: Mike Redmond, who managed in the Jays’ organization for Dunedin this year and Lansing last year, has been hired by the Miami Marlins as their new manager. There was never any indication that the Jays were interested in promoting him to the Majors, and he has deep ties in Florida and was on the Marlins’ roster when they won the 2003 World Series, so it makes sense for them and seems a non-issue as far as the Jays are concerned. But like that’s going to stop people from getting salty-crotched about it, amiright?

One Washington Nationals player who just declined his mutual option with the club might make a little bit of sense for the Jays: Adam Laroche. A good defender at first and a left-handed power bat, he bounced back from shoulder surgery that derailed his 2011 to club 33 bombs and put up a .361 wOBA– including a beyond respectable .349 wOBA against lefties. Sure, pitching is the top priority for the Jays, but if they decided to (smartly) go the cheap flier route and then beef up the lineup, I honestly couldn’t blame them. Problem, of course, is that the option LaRoche turned down was for $10-million, so he’d be looking for at least that in AAV on a longer deal. And perhaps a bigger problem is the fact that it sounds like he’d like to stay in Washington. Fuck… not a lot of people are going to take what little the Jays have to offer, are they?

Speaking of that very subject, MLBTR lists their top 50 free agents this winter, predicting where they’ll wind up signing, and the only one they have going to the Jays is the full-on mercenary: Edwin Jackson. Don’t get me wrong, I could deal with that, as long as some significant trades were made to help the roster as well, but… yeah. Ugh. The Jays do come up as possible alternate destinations for a number of other guys, so I guess that’s good. And either way, the full piece is very much worth a ready.

Late last night we were pointed in the direction of a tweet from Jon Heyman that says that, despite the fact his option was picked up, Darren Oliver appears to be leaning towards retirement. At least this way, though, he won’t be able go anywhere else, if he chooses to come back.

In a post laying out some Central Division tidbits, we’re told that Ryan Ludwick and the Reds are continuing to talk– not that he was a particularly great target for the Jays anyway– and that the Royals, after spending $12-million on Ervin Santana, are still looking to upgrade their rotation. Not that I think that not getting Santana was anything close to resembling a big miss, but if the Royals can add that kind of payroll and then some, but the Jays won’t, I’m pretty sure there is going to be some serious hell to pay for Rogers and their baseball operations division. And not unjustly, either.

Comments (177)

  1. I thought the Jays had a pretty amazing all-star DH? You don’t want to see E5 back in the field do you Stoeten?!?

    • EE is fine at 1B.

      I just would hope that any money going to Ortiz wouldn’t diminish money that could be spent on a good SP.

    • I’d have EE back at first in a heartbeat.
      I think he’s the best defensive 1st baseman the Jays have.
      Let the mocking begin but I’m fucking serious.He’s solid.His E5 nametag came from his throws not his fielding.
      I say this as a guy who loves a lefty at first but EE looks like he’s been playing there his whole carreer.

      • Agreed that EE is a competent first baseman. Problem is, that when he regularly plays in the field he has trouble staying in the lineup. He’s had both toe issues and back problems. I’d much rather see him as the DH and the need for a left handed power bat solved in a different way.

    • EE was E5, not E1. Signing Ortiz means getting the fuck out of the Adam Lind business.

    • Sign Jackson trade JP, Happ to Texas for Holland trade Lind, Jenkins to Seattle for Vargas trade Cecil, Syndergard to cubs for Soriano lf/dh sign Hafner dh

      What do ya think?

    • Please stop fucking calling him E5. He doesn’t play third anymore, when he does play in the filed he plays first and he does a damn fucking good job of it too.

      Fucking. Goddamn. Tool.

  2. Ortiz, yes please.

    Edwin Jackson, but only as a supplemental piece. If he is our big splash signing, you can start thinking about 2014 in a few months

    • the guy’s been on career life support in May for four of the last five years. he isn’t winfield, and this isn’t 1992.

    • who would be your “big splash signing”? Looking at the fairly weak FA pool (outside of Greinke and Hamilton), I would assume that if the Jays make a bigger move than Ortiz/Jackson (and I’d consider both pretty big for this franchise) it would be via trade.

      • Doesn’t have to be a signing, could be acquisition via trade, sorry I should have stated that. Through both FA and trade markets, if you feel getting Edwin Jackson as our major pickup is good, then we’re in for a long year.

        Edwin is a #4-5 slot guy at best and I’m concerned how his flyball ratio plays at Rogers Center in the AL East. I never said I don’t want him, but we can certainly aim higher.

        And since you asked specifically about FA pool, I’d take Greinke, Haren, Kuroda, Sanchez, and Lohse over Edwin with Dempster not being far off.

    • I think Jackson is underrated. I wouldn’t be so dismissive:

      2009: 214 IP, 3.62 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 6.8 SO/9
      2010: 209 IP, 4.47 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, 7.8 SO/9
      2011: 199 IP, 3.79 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 6.7 SO/9
      2012: 189 IP, 4.03 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 8.0 SO/9

      He’s not an ace, but getting a guy who can pitch 200 innings with a 4 ERA could be huge for this team. Unless the Jays can find a way to deal for Price, I’m not sure how they’re going to get an ace this offseason. Just have to hope Morrow keeps his 2012 form (but with health) and that Ricky bounces back. A guy like EJax would be a very good addition I think.

    • I will be surprised if Ortiz just doesn’t end up accepting arbitration again. It’s hard to imagine that someone will pay more on an anual basis (not to mention the draft picks they’d have to give up to sign him) than he would get through arbitration.

  3. A million thank you’s for this. MLBTR is blocked at work, but DJF isn’t. This is awesome.

    • Workplaces are weird about that shit. I can read DJF, MLBTR, and Twitter, but not any video game sites.

      • I’m in IT and I have no idea what I’m blocking. My Barracuda does whatever it does. I of course route myself straight out bypassing it. I’m a nice guy though, if someone asks me to whitelist a site I just do it.

    • agreed. its like banging your 2 favorite girlfriends at the same time…a 2fer if you will.

  4. I’m not an alarmist, or the Chicken LIttle, knees-bent-running-about type…..but I can foresee a long offseason with the plum agents going elsewhere as usual – while the Jays flap bags of cash around, yet end up holding nothing but their dicks at the end of the dance.

  5. I’ve long defended the spending of the Jays in recent years, but this $11-$16M talk has started to concern. I’m not buying into the hype, I just can’t see why there need be a limit?

    • They should be adding $30 million I think, to fill the holes they claim need filling, and even then, that might not do it. Depends who they get in trades, I suppose.

    • Its not a hard limit. It comes from the Shi Davidi piece from yesterday and even in the piece he admitted it was a full-on guess. Probably, likely accurate (at least more so than most of us would be able to guess) but its not a range that Rogers has said they will definitely stay in, by any means.

      • Right. I think Shi is basing that figure on the probable types of player contracts the Jays will add. And if it’s around 15M, it will be non-superstar types, obviously. VERY curious to see who the Jays nab.

        • I wrote this in the other post – but it’s worth listening to Brunt on the Blair show today.

          Said something like – he’s getting a feeling that ownership wants the Jays to make a big splash this offseason to fend off cynicism. Said he’ll be shocked if it doesn’t happen.

          Like Shi, it’s just him guessing I guess…. but you’d imagine Brunt is fairly plugged in with the Rogers types.

  6. Re: Redmond, I thought it was interesting that Wilner tweeted that Redmond was ticketed for New Hampshire in 2013 if he didn’t get a ML job. I could be wrong, but I thought Marty Brown was going to follow the AAA squad to Buffalo. Does that mean Sal Fasano may be forced on to the coaching staff of the new manager? Of course, with Redmond out of the picture, Fasano can always go back to New Hampshire.

  7. garza + sanchez + ortiz have gose in left, problems solved

  8. Can I pose a serious hypothetical re: Vernon Wells? Let’s say the Angels were willing to take on 90% of his remaining salary. Would you take him? He’s not the worst pinch-hitter around, right? Just curious on people’s thoughts.

  9. I am optimistic the Jays will be more active than simply signing a guy like Ejax . I do believe the action will be derived via trade mailny though.

    Ps would love to see Laroche a blue jay but he wont come cheap

    • I agree with both of these points. Hoping AA can work out a significant trade or two (unlike, say, last year’s deals for Mathis or Fransisco)

  10. Fuck Rogers, they are stuck in the mid- 2000′s trying to find bargains for cheap. I would love to see them just throw some cash out for some short term deals (1-3 years) on some decent veterans cause hell I don’t know if I can watch Adam Lind and Henderson Alvarez for another year.

    • yea…fuck lind. fuck someone that hits .290 after may 2012, whose last good year was 2009…versus rasmus whose last good year was 2010.
      get a fucking clue.

      • If you’re playing that game– which would be dumb, but you’re clearly not above that– Rasmus was entirely fine for half of 2011 as well.

        Adam Lind fucking sucks, this post-May shit covers a shade over 200 PA, and he’s been given 14 times the rope Rasmus has.

        Pick a battle that isn’t fucking ridiculous if you’re going to tell people off like you’re not a moron.

        • I’m not going to take carbuncle’s side by any means because Lind should have been done a while ago and Rasmus deserves at least a bit more rope.

          But I am rooting for Rasmus big time and it worries me that he is at least at risk of falling into the Adam Lind Suck Vortex if 2013 isn’t a whole lot more consistent than the previous 2 years.

  11. Not that high on Laroche to be honest. His career numbers are not up to his 2012 level, although they aren’t terrible by any means. I just think he will be too expensive for his worth.

    Can handle EJax as middle rotation fodder.

    Bring on Ortiz though.

    • edwin jackson is the ideal 5th starter. anyone that wants him to be a #3 is asking for the jays to finish 3rd in the al east.

      • This.

      • I think he is better than a 5. A five in years past was your “spot” starter for DHs and things like that. Edwin is a legit 4 and Happ can be the 5 I think with Morrow as # 2. WE need, as a minimum, beyond this another SOLID 2. Then…..what do you do with Romero who some think is a 1 but he is pitching like a 6. If he shits the bed again come April, they will have to move him as he may be suffering from Steve Blass syndrome

      • Oh chrissakes are we still numbering pitchers? We need 5 starters, at least. After opening day who cares who has what spot?

        • It’s their skill level that is important. If the new pitchers end up being #5′s in quality then yes we should all care.

          • Jackson is fine as a #3

            If the Jays could add two Jackson-like pitchers their rotation should be at least AL average with Morrow, Romero, EJax #1, EJax #2 & Happ/Alvarez.

            And league average in the AL is a HUGE upgrade over what they trotted out for most of last year.

  12. I think you hit the nail on the head Stoeten with the remark about salary inflation and the Rogers Blue Jays failure to keep up with it. I think that is the major reason our payroll is lower then it should be, the big bosses simply don’t realize it needs to be more.

    • I’m sure that Rogers is aware.

      Just like I’m sure Rogers is aware that keeping up with inflation cuts into their profit margins.

  13. Gose in Left and Rasmus in center??
    No thanks-we can’t have 2 OF both of whom are destined to hit .225 and both of whom seem a little dense. If we can unload Raasmus then maybe

    • obvious solution: davis/lind platoon.

    • Because every good baseball player is a genius?

      Jesus. And Rasmus is destined to hit .225? Come the fuck on. He certainly might, but destined? Negative fucking suckhole bullshit right there. Piss off with it.

      • I’m with Stoeten on Rasmus…he’s struggled for 2 years yes but he’s still fairly young and has huge upside/athlethicism…and worst case he’s a place filler until Gose is ready for this year…

      • OK Stoeten, mr smart ass. I’ll bet you right now, fukstik Rasmus doesn’t bat higher than .230, notwithstanding I woukd trade his ass out of town. assuming he stays with the jays and hits .230 or less you buy me as teak dinner. If I lose I’ll buy you a moosehead

        • If Stoeten doesn’t take the bet, I will.
          And it’s gonna cost you more than a Moosehead.
          Not fond of teak either , rather munch on pine.

        • if Rasmus hits over 30 HR and plays good defence, I don’t care what his average is

      • Stoeten’s always been big on Rasmus..

  14. I hope MLB Trade Rumors is not correct in guessing that we are only getting Edwin Jackson… If that is the case – Tank Nation 2013 begins

    And after another sub .500 season, we can trade our manager for John McDonald

    • i doubt they average more than 10 out of 50 per year on those predictions. it’s a fucking guessing game.

    • Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

      Seriously? They sign Edwin Jackson so it’s Tank Nation time? Jesus fuck.

    • Edwin Jackson is a good pitcher!

    • Honestly do people not realize how much of an upgrade two mid-rotation starters would be for the Jays.

      Whatever you think of Jackson, there have not been that many pitchers better than him over the last few years.

      There certainly haven’t been over 100 pitchers better than Jackson…and that’s what it would need to be for him to be the back end starter people pretend he is.

  15. Adam LaRoche would be a fantastic addition to the Jays lineup, but the pessimist in me says the Jays would rather cheap out and get his much less-successful brother, Andy LaRoche.

    Nice little promotion for Redmond. He goes from managing the single-A Dunedin Blue Jays to managing the Miami Marlins. The downside for Redmond is that Marlins ownership is bat-shit crazy. They spend a lot in the offseason, trade it all away at the deadline when things are shaky, and fire the manager at the end of the season because he couldn’t win after the fire sale.

    I got nothing against Edwin Jackson, seems like a solid, yet unspectacular pitcher. At least Scott Boras is no longer his agent, should make getting him cheaper.

  16. to everyone pining for ortiz…do yourself a favour and look at his March/April numbers for the last 5 years.
    then look at what adam lind did with the jays after May this year.

    Lind is 29. His wife is from Toronto.

    Ortiz is 37, and is fat with an achilles injury right now.

    what the fuck are you idiots thinking?

    • You haven’t quite said it but I really hope you don’t think Lind is or will be more productive than Ortiz. Because you wouldnt be that dumb, am I right?

      Lind didn’t get called up till late June so you can cross off another month and take another hit on your sustainable production theory for Lind. Oh, and you also forgot the part where no other MLB team wanted Lind when we placed him on outright waivers……… You also realize that Bautista has had awful starts to the season before too, right? Should we go there?

      I honestly don’t think Ortiz is much fatter than Adam Lind right now, if at all. Just sayin

      • i wouldn’t be shocked if a davis/lind platoon was more productive than a 37 year old guy who hasn’t been able to get his bat going until May or later since 2007 is exactly what i’m saying.

        realistically, the jays can either keep lind and hope he has figured something out…as the 59 games he played since May suggest…or, they can basically give him away. maybe someone will give them another bullpen piece for him.

        the jays can score runs, and i guess i offended stoeten who seems to be fixated on ortiz for some reason.

    • You are a fucking moron, carbuncle. Just beyond the pale.

      • convince me that lind is a worse hitter than rasmus.

        • Right after you convince us you haven’t been sucking exhaust fumes before coming on the site today.

          You realize you’re comparing offensive production based on a good defensive CF with an lazy injury prone 1B? There aren’t many teams out there that have a CF offensively outproducing their 1B.

        • I doubt that’s possible, because you’ve lost your mind on this subject, quite clearly. And it’s entirely possible that he’s not. But any fifth grader looking at the data, and not searching desperately-enough for any hint he’s beaten the conventional wisdom as to look at 200 PA for guy who has been pretty much entirely awful for over his last 1500, would be able to see who has been better more recently and is far more deserving of rope.

          But if you want to play the misleading game where you start parsing out all the good bits, you can go a long way to make Rasmus look good too– two months of 2012 and three or four of 2011 were quite good (a far bigger span, in total, than the last 200 of Lind), and his excellent season was right before that, in 2010.

          He’s also three years younger, and has not yet reached the usual peak for hitters.

          So, only an idiot would argue giving Lind more time and Rasmus less at this point. An idiot.

          • And he actually can… run and catch. Lind is an average 1B. Rasmus is an average CF. Big difference.

          • why would ortiz come to toronto for a two year deal when boston is probably going to offer him one? why would anyone in their right minds sign him to a 3+ year deal at this point in his career?

            lind is under contract, has shown signs of not being the DFA piece of crap he was for the last 3 years. i doubt any team would want his salary – so i don’t see the point of writing him out of the lineup in 2013 for a pipedream (ortiz).

            the question isn’t whether lind is some awesome player or better than ortiz…clearly he isn’t. ortiz is one of the best hitters in the past 20 years…i just 1) don’t think ortiz can maintain his production after he’s already shown signs of decline for the past 5 years…2)i don’t think it’s worthwhile to talk about someone that is basically the jeter of boston coming to toronto, and 3) i think lind is getting unfairly bashed after quietly putting up a sneaky return to form….he literally pulled his socks up, too.

          • Our hero Lind who has “returned to form” put up an OPS of .784 in the second half, which is when you’re arguing he proved he was worth keeping around.

            The League average OPS for 1Bs last was .778.

            This means that even Adam Lind “returned to form” was still only average offensively.

            Not to mention being below average defensively, being unable to hit lefties at any point last year AND putting up a mind bogglingly low OPS for the 2.5 YEARS prior to the end of 2012.

            Granted, we are stuck with him anyway because no other team will want him. But by no means should be actually be getting a large number of at bats right out of the gate.

          • …except those are his numbers against righties and lefties. he kills RHP, and with the exception of 2011, he’s always done that. what i’m arguing is that Lind is best utilized as a platoon bat with davis. whether that’s in lf or dh…i dunno. put together they make a really interesting thing.

            i probably shouldn’t have conflated the two things that are bugging me today: 1) that ortiz isn’t coming here and 2) that people are over looking that lind MIGHT (although i think there is good evidence that he DOES) still have value for the Jays.

            that confusion is my fault, because i was trying to be provocative (slightly different from trolling).

          • *well…not necessarily with davis, but as a platoon bat. whether the new manager can get him to accept that as his role…we’ll see.

          • slightly :P

        • if you offered both players to a team, they would only take Rasmus

        • You are absolutely right that Lind/Davis would be a good platoon, but the chances of that being implemented are slim to none IMO.

    • Why would anyone possibly care what Ortiz hit in March or where Adam Lind’s wife is from?

    • I don’t know what is stupider, that you want to look at a small sample size of someone who has started slow a couple seasons but has been fucking awesome over the entire season, or comparing that to a players 200 at-bats while ignoring the previous 1400 at-bats. Or maybe the stupidest fucking thing is that you feel the need to point out that Lind’s married to someone from Toronto…who gives a fuck?!

      But lets play along…

      David Ortiz:
      2012: April – 1.184 OPS, May – .841
      2011: April – .768 OPS, May – 1.080
      2010: April – .524 OPS, May – 1.211

      Adam Lind, last year after May had one month with an OPS over .800, in which he had 14 at-bats! So Ortiz had one bad month fucking three years ago, and you use that as a reason to rather have Lind?

      Oh, and Ortiz may have had an achilles injury, but that can heal. Apparently Lind’s back never fucking heals, cause he is always using it as an excuse.

      Or how about the fact you ignore how Ortiz isn’t really fat anymore, after dropping over 20 pounds.

      What the fuck are you thinking? Or are you just incapable of thinking because you’re a fucking idiot?

  17. Absolutely ZERO chance jays land ortiz. He is 36 yrs old and an injury waiting to happen and he would cost a draft pick. Ortiz is a great hitter but it aint happening.

    • I know AA loves his draft picks, but is losing a second round pick really that much of a deterrent to signing a big name free agent?

      • I hope not, otherwise tank nation 2012 to get a protected first round pick was all for naught

    • False, see toe.

      Yes, those are reasons why they may be reluctant, but there’s certainly a chance.

  18. “What the Jays could really use: A surprise, like pitcher Ryan Vogelsong” – Steve Simmons.

    I don’t know if this quote was discussed or even seen, since its simply a part of Simmons ramblings, contained within a largely hockey-oriented article. But this quote is AMAZING. I can’t fucking believe this guy gets paid as a sports writer. “A surprise-like pitcher”…fuck me those gotta be easy to find, eh Steve.

    • Is it wrong for fans to hope for a Vogelsong or Dickie type? Instead of seeing guys like Mcgowan and Drabek flaming out.

      He is saying that having a fringe guy breakout is a huge boost to a team, as it is a piece that you didn’t account for. Although, you could argue we found to huge surprises the past couple years in Bautista and EE

      • Well said. Finding huge surplus bonus production in a player is for fails. Lets just hate on an idea or thought, even if it’s a good one because you don’t like the person who said it. How Karl Rove Republican.

      • Yeah, sure its a huge boost. I’m not denying it. But how to do plan for that? Isn’t that what EVERY fucking team wants?….This guy is a sports writer, meaning getting paid to be more educated on sports as a whole than the average reader…and this is a comment? What’s next? “Would be really fun to watch Jays win World Series” “Jays need manager in order to ensure 9 players are on the field”…like come on…

      • Rasmus mouthbreathers would be wise to revisit Encarnacion’s stats for 2010. The word you’re looking for is patience.

  19. let me know if i’m wrong, but i’m pretty sure our last big press conference introducing a free agent was frank thomas in 2008….

    • David Eckstein and Darren Oliver were the biggest ones since then.

      So… yeah.

      Which, of course, doesn’t mean they won’t spend now, like a lot of people would really like to believe it does, so that they can pat themselves on the back jump to the head of the I TOLD YOU SO train.

      • maybe i’m in the minority but I would absolutely love if they signed josh hamitlon, that would get everyone’s attention in a hurry

        • I wouldn’t say I’d love it unconditionally as it would obviously depend on the terms. But I would love the splash!
          and I’d probably love him being on the team for at least the next 3-4 years…. After that….. :S

    • That Frank Thomas signing was in the fall of 2006 by the way. It’s been six years since this organization spent significant FA dollars.

  20. “Problem, of course, is that the option LaRoche turned down was for $10-million, so he’d be looking for at least that in AAV on a longer deal.”

    I think it’s more likely LaRoche, at 33 and coming off his best season ever, sees this as his most lucrative opportunity to ever cash in on the FA market, and is looking for as much guaranteed money as possible as opposed to the highest AAV. If he gets more than that 10m in AAV it’ll be pretty clear there’s a new standard market for FAs, because he certainly doesn’t deserve it. He should be thrilled to sign a 3 year, 24-27 million dollar deal, and I think that price is way out of Toronto’s range.

  21. I am the conductor of that train. Nobody else is allowed in the Engine Car.

  22. We need Ricky Romero to turn into a Frank Tanana type. Farrell’s relationship with Ricky was horrible.

  23. Jays should try to land LaRoche on a bigger money, shorter term deal. I wouldn’t want anything longer than 4 years.. but he could be a huge help hitting in between Bautista and EE.

  24. No one seems to factor in that young Jays may improve. Isn’t it possible that Rasmus/JPA/Lawrie may actually be better next year? Isn’t it even possible that one or more of these guys has a break-out year? Isn’t that why you gamble on high-ceiling guys? Why do minor leaguers get so much rope but current players get one year and then some morons want to chase them out of town? If you’re going to cheer for a young team on a budget than you’d better learn to be patient or put on a Yankees cap and get the fuck out of here. It is my sincere hope that Cletus knocks the fuck out of the ball next year. I just hope he’s still wearing a Jays cap.

  25. I would say no to Ortiz, just cause he’s getting older and has health issues.

    Edwin Jackson would be a nice addition, but only if AA can swing a deal to obtain another starter, either Brett Anderson, or Justin Masterson. And 2B needs an upgrade. JPA to the Mets for Dan Murphy.

    I have the feeling we are going to see alot of Anthony Gose next season, probably in LF with Davis.

    • yeah, i have to agree ortiz scares me a bit…

      ike davis for rasmus would dealing from a strength to address a weakness for both clubs…

    • I’ve said all along that I thought Gose would be an ideal and cheap replacement for Davis as 4th outfielder. Defensively he’s far better, on the bases I’d say it’s a wash with the upside probably going Gose’s way. Hitting is the another story though. If you did in fact add another premium bat at 2nd or Left then the lineup could easily absorb Gose’s bat if the Jays needed to have him play regularly if someone got injured. Davis might make a nice trade chip in a few weeks as part of a package.

      • Provided we strengthen our rotation with a couple of solid starters, and provided if AA can upgrade 2B (JPA for Dan Murphy), a lineup as follows could absorb a Davis and Gose platoon.

        Vs. RHP:

        Lawrie – 3B
        Murphy – 2B
        Bautista – RF
        Encarnacion – DH
        Rasmus – CF
        d’Arnaud – C
        Lind – 1B
        Aviles – SS
        Gose – LF

        vs. LHP:

        Davis – LF
        Murphy – 2B
        Bautista – RF
        Encarnacion – 1B
        Lawrie – 3B
        d’Arnaud – C
        Rasmus – CF
        Gomes – DH
        Aviles – SS

      • Gose is not going to be a 4th option. Wherever he plays hes gonna be playing every day whether thats in AAA or in the bigs.

        You dont platoon a 22 yr old top prospect.

        • I know it dude. But we are talking about your Toronto Blue Jays here.

          Just saying, it could work, for awhile, giving AA some time to work out a deal before the July deadline season, if the Jays are in contention. You package a deal to get a legit LF hitter and send Gose to AAA.

          I just have a feeling that AA will not tinker too much in the trade or free agent market for an outfielder. Pitching is where he needs to focus his attention.

          A Gose – Davis platoon could work while the team continues to work on its MLB roster.

  26. Dammit!!! Mike Redmond?? Is every team going to steal our coaches? I can’t believe this, I thought for sure he was going to be up in the bigs soon. What the hell is wrong with this club and AA? Gawd, the frakkin’ Jays and Rogers better increase the cash flow to get some decent coaches in the line-up. We have needed a good no. 1 or two coach for quite a while, I’m sick and tired of this team rebuilding the coaching staff. It’s getting to the point that I have to read the program to identify who is coaching in the minors!! Goddammit!! Fuck Rogers for breaking promises about our coaching staff of “contenders”. Another one of the Rogers’ lies. What happened to the statement “If the fans start attending, and the money is right, you’ll get great coaches”…man, I’m done with this team. Players are secondary and they come and go, but the coaching staff, especially in the minors, that’s the stuff of championship teams!! (Removing tongue from cheek now..)

  27. Isn’t LaRoche’s dad the Jays minor league pitching coach or some shit? I see a promotion in the near future.

  28. Part of me would be intrigued to see Ortiz hit between Jose and Eddie. A modern day Latin murderers row would be great for fans imo. That said, I’d rather see them get someone like Melky or Hunter first simply because it fills a more pressing need in the outfield and I also believe there’s less risk there. I know I am in the minority buy I still think a strict platoon of Lind and someone else who hits lefties well would be the way to go. If the Jays weren’t on the hook for Lind’s $5 million this year or I was convinced the Jays were actually going to spend to $110-120 million mark then I would care less about the Jays eating his salary. Imo every dollar really needs to go into the rotation first and foremost before we can splurge on luxuries like an aging DH. Of course if AA manages to miraculously swing some impressive trades for pitching first then I’d rethink it.

  29. I’m of the opinion that money will be spent on guys who have or will getting one or two year deals. I think that AA will offer and/or take on above market dollars, but not the years.

    Beeston’s antiquated policy on 5 years contracts aside, many of prospects (from the Lansing 3, to Hech and Gose, to Drabek and Hutch, to TDA and JMAR- not an attempt to nickname him, I just can’t spell it) will be in the picture.

    Spending a little now makes economic sense because when they are off the books their dollars will be replaced by inevitable raises to core players, and their positions by cheap young players. Moving forward this way could keep the payroll in the 105 to 115 million range for years to come. This would be a welcome addition for fans, but more significantly be a reasonable cost for Rogers to ok.

    So according to my theory…

    On the table-



    Hiroki Kuroda

    Melky Cabrera

    Marco Scutaro

    That pitcher we didn’t know was available with one or two years left on his contract that the Jays like, that he other team is trying to save money on that can be had for either bundled spare parts or who AA deems to be Zach Stewart or Nestor Molina 2.0

    Off the table –

    Edwin Jackson (will want 3 or 4 years)

    Marcum (see Jackson)

    And the top 6 of the MLBTR list (see Jackson)

    • *meant to say that many of the prospects will be in play in 2 years.*

      • Those guys would add at least $50 million to the payroll in 2013 at a bare minimum. I don’t know what’s more unlikely right now, that they would all actually sign in Toronto, or Rogers actually ponying up that much cash.

        Doesn’t hurt to dream though. I do it every time I walk the dog and think about the Lotto Max jackpot.

        • I didn’t mean to imply all of them, likely just two of them, and if the price is right 3.

          Rogers and the Blue Jays have humbled my dreams to the point that I don’t dare dream about the LottoMax. Lottario, however, would be more appropriate.

  30. Toronto isnt signing shit. Whether you like it or not, this is the Toronto Blue Rays. Except we dont win games and cant emulate their strategy worth a shit.

  31. Given that a manager doesn’t make that huge a difference, I just wish the Jays had a Mike Redmond-type who they felt really strongly about and could have signed up the day after Fuckface walked, if for no other reason than so that I wouldn’t have to wonder who the manager will be.

  32. Is it too much to ask for the Jays to sign – if Haren hits the market – 2 out of the following?

    Melky Cabrera
    David Ortiz
    Dan Haren
    Edwin Jackson
    Adam Laroche – good eye by Stoeten

    Also, since the Jays badly need a breathing human to play 2B, preferrably someone who is breathing and good at the position, I’m secretly hoping for a Rickie Weeks trade IF the Brewers decide to rebuild.

    • Could you live with Marco Scutaro @ 2nd base? Assuming the contract fits.

      • If he settled on a 2 year deal, I don’t see why not. He’s not my first choice, but it most certainly isn’t a bad fallback.

      • Marco Scutaro is the post-season hero for the Giants. Me thinks he will get a better offer from San Francisco and me further thinks Scutaro loves it in the Bay area.

        Would rather see a deal made to get someone like Murphy of the Mets. Terrific OBP guy and plays decent enough at 2B. Also younger and cheaper. The Mets need a power hitting catcher. JPA is a Riccardi draft pick and would do well in the media savvy market that is NYC.

    • Signing Haren, Jackson & Cabrera would be a huge success. And we’re talking about, what, a $30 mil payroll boost.

      And not a single prospect touched to acquire those 3, so 2B could theoritically still be addressed via trade if AA doesn’t want to rotate Escobar, Aviles & Hech b/w 2 spots.

      What I think is more likely is 1 pitcher signing of someone in the $10 – $15 mil range and the rest of the winter trying to make trades/cheap FA signings which could apply to Cabrera.

      I’d love to see payroll push past $100 mil but I don’t see it happening yet.

    • ” I’m secretly hoping for a Rickie Weeks trade IF the Brewers decide to rebuild.”

      Even without a rebuild, couldn’t Escobar for Weeks make sense for both sides?

      IIRC, the prospect Milwaukee received in the Greinke trade profiles more as a 2B than a SS.

      • I never considered an Escobar for Weeks swap, and I tried to come up with reasons for 10 minutes as to why it wouldn’t work, but it kind of does make some sense for both teams.

        As far as I know, both teams have players who can fill the void left by the trade.

        • This could work if the brewers believe like many that seguera isnt a shortstop…but I dont think the brewers are dumb enough to sell low on weeks…

  33. We should have known that Mike Redmond’s dream job all along was with the Marlins. This is all AA’s fault.

    • Please enuff with the managerial dream job bullshit. Honestly i would be the first to drop kick Farrel in his skull but im so sick of all the mockery dream job blah blah blah posts. Lets move on

  34. If the Jays are intent on extracting whatever value they can out of Adam Lind they may want to consider Mark Reynolds as a platoon partner. He has mashed lefties in the past.

  35. I really think we are all just bullshitting. AA isn’t going to get Ortiz. He may get Edwin Jackson but lets be serious Rogers doesn’t want long contracts or big money contracts. He had a good year and this years FA class of starters past Grienke and Haren is slim. Some asshole GM will sign him to a 4 yr 48-55 or 5- 50-60 mil contract quick and AA won’t have the stones to touch it. I have realized with AA to not expect huge signings (which may or may not be in his control) and hope he wins in trades.

  36. Here’s an interesting trade suggestion from ESPN today – thoughts…:

    Washington Nationals trade 1B/OF/DH Michael Morse to the Toronto Blue Jays for RHP Kyle Drabek and IF Mike McCoy.

    “In left field, Morse’s bat isn’t good enough to make up for his awful defense. Moving him to Toronto would permit to the Blue Jays to finally bid adieu to Adam Lind, and Morse and Edwin Encarnacion could take turns at first base and designated hitter. In return for Morse, Washington gets a lottery ticket in Drabek, and a very solid utility player in McCoy.”

  37. The more I think about it the more I’d like to see Youkilis in here. For all sorts of reasons. He had a down year last year but he’s a good hitter in general and he can play 1st and 3rd. He’s a vet and he’s not shy. The kids are short on accountability? He can bring accountability. By the cartload. And that might help the next manager who will be dealing with the after-effects of what sounds like a clubhouse whose manager and maybe a couple of coaches stepped out mid-season and never came back, leaving the players to manage and coach themselves.

    More importantly, Youkilis was in the Red Sux clubhouse for a very long time. And then he was traded after being labelled a snitch by Jon Lester and singled out by Bobby Valentine for not being having his head in the game. Youk does not strike me as an easy-going guy who would laugh that shit off. I bet he knows every single weakness. Every button to push and how best to push it. I also bet he’s dying to exact revenge. He knows how the Sux go about their game and how to put them off it. I think Youkilis would be a very good acquisition. If he comes here I will cheer for him and cheer for him. After all, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    • Agreed!! Youkilis is a beauty

    • I’m not sure I could unhate him though? It’s burned into my baseball soul.

    • I actually kinda agree. Or at least would be totally on board with him coming here.

      And for those fans who hate him, and I was one of them for a long time, I gotta say, the video I posted of him doing Aviles’ swing the other day makes it considerably harder to. For me, at least.

      I’m worried about the road splits last year– was terrible outside Fenway and US Cellular– but he has some positional versatility, and he still kills lefties– him and Lind would be a great 1B/DH platoon if you could convince him he’s now a platoon guy– which I have a hard time believing you could, unless you’re a franchise who has won anything lately, but still, I’d try it.

      Most importantly, he can take a damn walk.

      • Maybe he doesn’t hit on the road. But if he comes here, you’ve just named two ‘road’ parks where he feels right at home. My guess is he would hit very well at the RC once he gets comfy there. And then you would have three ‘home’ parks to hit in.

    • with the added bonus of sticking it to the Red Sox a few more times a year

  38. I watched Jeff Kent on Survivor last night and it appears he can still walk…there’s another 2nd base option.

  39. The Jays need some stars to align, a la 2012 Baltimore Orioles. There’s a ton of “IF”s on the team. Solid seasons from Romero, Rasmus, Lawrie and Lind and one of several 3/4/5 arms (McGowan, Hutchinson, Happ, Alvarez, Drabek, AAA kids) would result in a 90 win season and a taste of post-season (Wild card). Let’s be hopeful.

  40. I’m hoping AA brings in an impact player, probably a pitcher, and maybe it will be someone that no one has yet mentioned in this thread. I will be suprised if the Jays pull any of the moves that we think are most likely, such as signing Jackson, trading for Haren, and so on.
    Although I would be happy with either of those moves.

  41. Holy shit this David Ortiz retardation again. What part of home-road splits do you fuckers not understand? Forget the fact that he’s a million years old, the fact that he missed significant time last year. HOME ROAD SPLITS people!

  42. Rogers 4 billion in profit ? Can’t spend a dime … But you’ll call me at 1137 pm for an outstanding amount of 32$ FU

  43. Ray sounds angry

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