Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of (and that I need to distract myself with in order to keep from arguing with the commenters), with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

“Nobody knows, yet, whether Anthopoulos will get the choice of a new manager right, but one thing is apparent from a conversation with him on Thursday: The final decision will be his, and he won’t overanalyze it the way he seems to think he did in hiring Farrell,” writes Jeff Blair in an interesting piece for the Globe and Mail. “Anthopoulos is clear: Even today, he does not think there is anything that suggests Farrell won’t be a good manager. But he also admitted that in hiring Farrell two years ago, he was more concerned with ‘checking all the boxes.’ ”

“And Anthopoulos will make some bold personnel moves, via free agency or trade or both, designed both to put the Jays in position to contend ASAP, and to send a message to the fan base that ownership is both committed to the task and willing to invest to achieve it,” writes Stephen Brunt for Sportsnet. “Spending money for the sake of spending money isn’t normally a sound operating philosophy. But the cynicism that crept into the conversation in the latter stages of this season, the rumblings about ownership being “cheap,” could quickly become corrosive, and erase all of those happy thoughts about the Jays’ bright future.”

FanGraphs has the results of their contract crowdsourcing exercise, which are definitely worth a look, as in the past it will have given you a pretty decent idea of what it’s going to take to get any of these guys– though, realistically, you’ll probably want to add a year and/or some dollars to the average annual values there, if you’re thinking about what they might cost the Jays.

Dave Cameron takes the crowdsourced numbers, and pulls out the best 25– and worst five– deals listed, in terms of value for the club.

Gregor Chisholm of BlueJays.com talks to Jason Frasor, who is stressed about free agency, says the Jays are “on his list” but he’d play anywhere, and that “maybe my two most enjoyable months in the big leagues were with the White Sox.” Well fuck you very much, too.

Might Pete Walker be the next Jays coach to shuffle his way over to the Boston Red Sox? Sure. Whatever. It’s a possibility, says the Boston Globe.

Because he’s clearly insane, Hall of Famer Bob Elliott makes a case in the Toronto Sun for Ernie Whitt to be the next Jays manager– and I think puts him on the ’92 World Series team in order to do so.

At Getting Blanked, Drew throws cold water on the idea of David Ortiz playing for anybody but Boston next year.

Tim Baines of the Ottawa Sun says it’s Blue Jays or bust for the city’s proposed Double-A team: without a Jays affiliation it won’t work, can’t work, and won’t happen, he says. Good luck with that.

Bluebird Banter looks back on the season that was, and also reminisces about past coaching staff machinations– like one I got rather salty about back in 2009.

At Baseball Prospectus, Sam Miller writes about Darren Oliver, who might really retire this time.

Baseball America has its schedule up for their organizational top ten prospect lists. The Jays one will drop next Wednesday, November 7th.

As you’d entirely expect him to, Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star, the former PR man for the Expos, remembers Pascual Perez with some great stories.

And at Grantland, Jonah Keri remembers Perez in a way that entirely hits home for those of us of a certain vintage.

Lastly, it’s even more GIFfery– even more Getting Blanked GIFs of the Year.

Comments (205)

  1. Please, Mr. Frasor, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    • Well maybe that wasn’t the smartest thing to say, but he was in the thick of a postseason race in Chicago–I’m sure that would’ve been more enjoyable than Toronto.

    • Do we have a problem with honesty now? I’d be glad to have Frasor back depending on the price. He’s been good for a long time.

      • Nothing wrong with honesty at all. I just believe he’s been average at best. To me he’s a high WHIP reliever who has seen most of his peripherals go in the wrong direction the last two years. I’d gladly go with someone like Jenkins and put the salary difference towards someone who will contribute more.

        • I’d rather go with someone who’s proven he can pitch well in the AL East than a kid who would likely be blasted regularly. Of course, that all depends whether this team actually wants to win or not. If they’re just going to be a .500 team (as it appears they are right now), then it really doesn’t matter who they’re throwing out there in relief and you might as well go cheap.

        • Completely agree. On my scale, Frasor has moved into fukstik status and s/b released. We can take his approx 4.0m and invest it elsewhere and give the job of giving up late inning HRs to some rookie. He basically fucked up as much as Cordero, it was just done in the 6th and 7th innings where it’s glossed over a little more

          • Will we be getting an updated fukstick rating soon?

            My initial reaction to Frasor was who the eff pissed in his cheerios. Wasn’t he all happy and shit when AA called him on New Year’s Day to tell him he’d been traded back to the Jays?

    • Wont miss Frasor either

  2. Loved Elliott bringing up that Ricciardi didn’t live in Toronto for the gazillionth time as if that had any effect on the job he did and then making that a prerequisite quality for the next manager.

  3. Ernie Whitt. Jesus fucking christ.

    • Ernie seems to get a lot of hate in the comments here. I know he supposedly blasted the Jays when he got the boot but that was a long time ago. Am I missing something?

      • Whitt has no real credentials for a MLB managerial job. His hiring would be looked at as a Canadian appeal to the people that Stoeten likes to refer to as maple dicks.

        And there’s also the fact that he allowed Canada to be knocked out of the last WBC by dumbfoundingly not starting his best pitcher in the first two games in a double elimination tournament.

        • Well I won’t go so far as to agree with you on the credentials especially with names like Wallach and Alomar Jr supposedly in the mix but thanks for the other info.

          • Unlike Whitt, Wallach has managerial experience in AAA and Alomar was the bench coach in Cleveland for the last two years (including a short stint as an interim MLB manager).

          • Throwing out his time managing Team Canada see the following from his Wiki page:

            Whitt also served as both the Blue Jays’ bench coach and first base coach starting in 2005, and was rumoured to be a potential replacement for then-incumbent manager John Gibbons until Gibbons and several coaches were fired midway through the 2008 season. He was the manager of the Clearwater Threshers in the Philadelphia Phillies’ minor league system. Whitt continues to be a roaming instructor in the Phillies’ organization.

            Again I really don’t have a preference I was just curious about the hate for him. I really don’t remember a lot of bad things from his time with the Jays.

        • Hmm, I was always under the impression that he was referring to people’s dicks as dicks, not the people as dicks. Like when a Canadian is brought up, certain individuals get a giant erection of maple. This is not to imply the people themselves are dicks.
          Perhaps I have always misunderstood?

    • Honestly, I don’t agree with hiring Whitt, but I get Elliott’s point completely. Just find someone who will put down roots here, who wants to be here, who won’t treat it as triple-A experience.

    • Hey.

  4. I’d pay that for Greinke without blinking. I’d consider it a bargain, honestly.

    • Most of them seem a bit low to me. If you can get a guy like Edwin Jackson for 3 years/36M or Scutaro for 2 years/16M, you have to do it.

      • Oh God yeah… Especially with Edwin Jackson.

        I think he’ll get more than that though. Everyone needs pitching, and he’s been very consistent. I could see him getting something more like 4yrs/52mil. I would be completely fine with that contract, from the Jays perspective.

        • I’d gladly take Jackson as well.

          It’s almost shocking that if you filter fWAR by the last 3 or 4 years that Jackson is securely on the first page of 30.

          Solid durable pitchers don’t grow on trees and he’s one of them.

      • Agreed. While I don’t agree with it but I think someone will overpay Hamilton beyond that 5/$100

  5. So are we to believe Brunt about ownership beginning to feel the wrath of the fanbase?

    It looks like hockey is going to be a fucking nightmare this winter. So you have the Raptors, and the ever entertaining hot stove season for baseball.

    The Jays have a protected pick.

    Good time for ownership to tell the baseball world to go fuck themselves and make a big splash.

    Especially those fucking massholes. Jesus, now Pete Walker?

    Should we send them the bat boy, the ball girls, a few ushers and some ticket agents too?

    • I don’t see any reason to think Rogers cares now. They haven’t been caring about the fans for over a decade now and that lack of caring hasn’t stopped the Jays from being very profitable for them.

      • It’s a matter of perception now and I do think that someone in that opaque BS tower of bable knows they have to do s’thing to keep the momo going. They built upsome goodwill last year in attendance increases, ditto for radio and TV ( thru the roof), concession sales and so on. The events of the last 3 months plus Farreelgate are eroding it. I do think they will do something major, but should they not for some stupid fucking reason, it will reinforce that they are cheap fuks and I and my 3 buds are OUT

    • I do find it hopeful that Brunt acknowledge the potential wrath of the fans.

      It’s a hard job to get fans re energized to watch the Jays & in business it’s easier to keep a customer happy than piss them off & hope they come back.

      I do note more skepticism in Stoeten’s recent posts about the likelyhood of AA getting what he needs.

    • Can we throw in Zaun Cherry, Buck and Tabby?

    • I dont mind that rat hiring away Luvallo. Hell he wasnt here that long anyway. But Butterfield and Rivera and Walker?
      It looks to the casual fan that he’s trying to gut our system or something. Blair was saying that the loss of Rivera was difficult because of his hispanic connection , but also because he is so intelligent. I think if I were AA I’d be inclined to offer him (or all of them?) a raise and stop this crap.
      It’s very obviously personal and I have to disagree with the idea that this is a guy just jumping at his once in a lifetime chance for his dream job. I can not believe that Farrell having been in this business for as long as he has, thinks that those 3 guys are the best possible hires out of all the baseball people out there. They may be good, but the overall purpose of Farrell and his precious Red Sox, (and I dont think this is an exaggeration) is now to weaken the Jays’ organization.

  6. Everyone start to complain about Rogers being cheap – even though its obvious they are, they do own a sports team after all – because maybe they will sign a fucking free agent for once.

    • they (rogers) have been around and signed big name free agents before. and like 2012, they tried to use them to “get over the hump” combined with a big trade.

  7. jason bourgeois is available. he’s a poor man’s rajai davis.

  8. contract guesses for a sanchez?

    • I think he’ll be an interesting case. I think whoever signs him is looking at 4 or 5 years…and i expect he gets about what Buerhle or Wilson last year, just because the pitching market is deep, but he’s sort of the guy i think people who don’t sign grienke might look to. i really don’t want anything to do with him, if it’s me – but maybe that’s just personal bias because he is a shitty fantasy option.

  9. The Grif piece on Perez was excellent. Great memories. I had forgotten about Hubie Brooks for some reason.

    Perez was too young to die.

  10. We (the Jays) could reunite the old catcher’s platoon from the ’80′s. Hire both Buck Martinez and Ernie Whitt as co-managers..fuckin’ awesome!!

  11. The Ortiz dream is dead, per MLBTR. Should hear about Haren tonight… fingers crossed! Jesus, it would be nice to have something to be excited about regarding this team.

  12. Rumour has it Haren was just traded to the Cubs for Marmol.

  13. Pascual Perez RIP.

  14. The baseball free agent gods do not love the Jays tonight.

    • Nope. hy would the Angels take a crappy pitcher like Marmol?

      Couldn’t AA offer a prospect for Haren?

      I suppose if the 15 million extra budget is true, AA can use it on better assets.

      It also may mean that AA is targetting someting completely different.

  15. And i have a feeling were gonna have to play the waiting game on the rest of the free agent pitchers. I cant see any of them signing anywhere until Grenkie signs.

  16. Cubs acquire Haren in exchange for Carlos Marmol. Nice little pick up for Chicago, probably going to flip him at the deadline for pieces to continue the Cubs’ rebuild.

  17. I would’ve been happy with the Jays taking a chance on Haren..

    but there’s plenty of warning signs on him, so I’m not too disappointed:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-market-for-dan-haren/

    • I’m particularly not enthused about the loss of velocity at his age along with the back problem. Seems to me AA should’ve been able to find a prospect pitcher somewhere though. Oh well….NEXT !?

  18. Too bad about Haren. Seemed like a good start to building the rotation for AA. As always, would love to know what the Jays had on the table (if anything) given that Epstein was anxious to be out from under Marmol’s contract since he got there.

    • The one good thing about if the Jays had gotten Haren would be that it would take a fair bit of pressure off the rest of the offseason. And it wouldn’t take a huge contract offer or dealing some prized prospects.

      I think we all agree that AA probably needs 2 SPs, and at minimum one bat. Plus a manager choice! A lot of stuff.

  19. I spoke with Adam Stern, a previous Red Sox draft pick, Mlb player and Team Canada WBC outfielder about his coach Ernie Whitt. He loved him, raved about him and said that Whitt had the entire rosters respect and admiration. He also noted in his own words, that Whitt had the same kind of demeanor and approachability as Cito Gaston. Considering this with other obvious facts, I think he should have a legit shot at the interview.

    This guy won’t fuck off for warmer weather, because it has 4 seasons in Michigan too. And most importantly, he is a smart coach and well like up here. That should hold clout. Maple dick me or not, consider this guy.

    • They could do a lot worse. Whitt was born and raised in Michigan (I think I heard Mt Clemens). It’s a short drive from Trawna.

  20. Weird trade for the Angels, good trade for the Cubs. Not only can they decide to trade Haren at the deadline next year for prospects whoever they sign to close in Marmol’s place can be traded too.

    • They probably won’t trade him imo. They had plenty of pen depth issues last year. Then again I just checked and he’s making nearly $10 million a year.

  21. Bleh. My first impression is to say fuck you Jays. There’s no reliever in the Jays pen and his 60 odd innings that isn’t worth a potential #2 starter and 200 innings. Getting a reliever is a lot easier than a stud starter.

    I know Haren is just for one year but there’s the possible compensation if they were to offer him a qualifying offer at the end of the season. Also there’s nothing to say that the Jays couldn’t have had a better chance of extending him if, you know, he actually played here and had seen how good of a city Toronto is. Who knows with him on board maybe the Jays might have even made the playoffs.

    Again the irrational part of me wants to say this is a sign of things to come but I won’t go there yet. I just hope AA has bigger and better things up his sleeve.

    • His longsleeve shirt shrunk. So there is not as much as room up his sleeves anymore for tricks.

      Time to for him to step into the ring and hang his nuts out.

    • After the past 12 months, I totally get that reaction.

      But, this is really the first kind of big move of the offseason. So it’s really way too early to judge.

      For all we know AA and co looked at Haren’s declining K’s and velocity and are guessing he’ll bomb in 2013.

      (Or, they didn’t want to pay his salary. But lets hope it’s the former).

      • I liked what the monthly splits showed much better. April and May he the same old guy or at least the results were. He gets injured and falls off the rails between June and August. September when supposedly healthy, he’s back to normal.

        Someone posted an ESPN article the other day explaining the issues. I think it was Jays2010. Worth a read.

        Anyway I love the move from the Cubs perspective.

    • The deal made more sense to me for the Cubs once I saw Marmol is due $9.8M in 2013. They gain a possible #2 for adding $6M in payroll. I don’t get it for the Angel’s. Marmol doesn’t seem like much of a prize. If they were going to spend $10M on a pitcher next year, why not find someone who’ll send them a decent prospect and $8M bucks to upgrade their booty. Marmol seems like a pretty small get.

      With that said, who knows if the Jays were in on this. I think it’s entirely possible, and probably rational to decide Haren’s not worth the risk if that decision was made. Who in our pen would be a similar value? Janssen? Happ? Delabar? Shit.. I don’t know about Janssen, but I think I’d have happily parted with either of the other two.

      • Strange deal. The Angels are giving up a solid no. 3 starter for a reliever and saving what, $5 or $6 million?

        To me, there must be something going on. I think the Jays did good, if indeed they passed on Haren. Something is amiss here.

    • I think Stoeten has set the stage for a disappointing off season, so fans shouldn’t get too upset if all the big name players go elsewhere.

      Haren would have been a useful addition to the Jays, but maybe AA has his mind on someone else.

      MLB reports that AA has made a list of free agents to consider so that’s a good first step. :))

    • +1.

      I suspect it will be a long offseason & we just have to wait & see what AA is allowed to do to upgrade the team.

      The team is sending out mixed messages. Brunt ( Sportsnet ) is saying they have to do something flamboyant. Davidi (Sportsnet) is sending up trial balloons of 90-95 million. Wilner is busy trying to confirm if Butterfield is the new 3B coach of the red sox.

      It would be interesting to find out what Mohammed knows if anything about the Blue Jays.

      • Hmmm two different Rogers employees saying different things.

        Not to mention Zaun Cherry always going off about spending like a drunken sailor.

        Could it be that Rogers is not trying to control the media message and that these guys are, you know, just giving their opinions?

        Nah, you’re right. It’s a conspiracy.

  22. I guess it’s always possible the Cubs flip him since they’ll have far more time to work out a deal with another club. Then again maybe this is the Cubs first salvo in a quicky rebuild. Wouldn’t be a total shock. They actually don’t have ton of money committed for 2013 and 2014 for a market like theirs.

  23. And that, my friends, is one more reason why the Blue Jays are…

    The Joke of the American League.

    • Because they’re one of 28 other teams that didn’t just acquire Dan Haren?

      Makes sense.

      • I hope that doesn’t become a new meme for 2013.

        Every time a team upgrades it’s team, someone says the other 29 teams did not get the player.

        At some point the Jays will have to upgrade the team unless they want to hope that the Lansing Trio saves the franchise.

        I wonder if in 2007 there was a similar wait till “Snider & Lind ” get here theme.?

        • @oakville This is the second guy traded this offseason! If AA doesn’t get anything but I will be as pissed as anyone, but it’s Nov 2nd.

          • @James.

            I know that. That’s why I am not very upset.

            I don’t know what additional budget if any that AA has been authorized to spend.

            As I said there are mixed messages coming from Sportsnet ( Brunt & Davidi) about payroll for 2013

            These are the canaries in the cold mine. If Brunt was willing to go public with a comment about the Jays being “flamboyant” , then that tells me there is 25 million more to spend or so.

            I hope I can look at the opening day roster & see an 85-90 win team. That’s not an outrageous expectation.

          • @James. I was referring to the sports commentary whenever a free agent signs with team x, someone always says 29 teams had a shot at the player in question.

            Same issue with the draft.

  24. My Christmas list to Santa:

    2 starters.

    3 relievers.

    1 left-handed destroyer.

    Ernie Whitt as Manager.

    A blowup doll that looks like Stoeten.

  25. I really thought Haren would be moved for an above avg minor leaguer. This is a surprise to me. Like another poster said earlier. Would be interesting to know what the jays had on the table if anything at all.

  26. I dont get this trade for by the angels. they took back 9 million in salary for a reliver? their pen was fine. and after one year of marmol, he is gone and they have nothing. they could have traded him for some prospects and saved 9 million and had some players to go with it.

    marmol has walked 345 batters in 514 career innings.

    dont get it.

    • I had the same thought. To Marmol’s credit, he’s had success despite the crazy walk rate, but he is on the wrong side of thirty. But it’s likely taking back more $ gave the Angel’s a higher return, I’m not sure I’d be unhappy with that if I was an Angels fan.

    • Actually their pen wasn’t fine. It was pretty bad for most of the season and they had depth problems due to injuries and what not.

      They had the 2nd worst save percentage in the AL in 2012.

      http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/seasontype/2/split/128/league/al

    • Are the Angels looking to flip Marmol perhaps?? There is no other closers out there in FA other than Soriano n Valverede so perhaps they have thoughts of dealing him. I dont get the trade otherwise

      • Could be a number of things. If the Angels keep him it gives them pen depth and saves a few million they could spend on another starter or gives them more time to trade Marmol to someone else. Maybe they just didn’t like the medicals on Haren. Who knows?

        Madson is also a possibility. Since he got hurt before the season even started he should be ready.

  27. Fuck that was a total steal for Chicago.

    Marmol isn’t even a particularly good reliever with his high walk rate and if there is no money exchanged, they basically spent an extra $6 million to get a much better player.

    I assume the plan is to keep Haren until the deadline to eat innings and perhaps trade someone with more value (Garza?).

    If it only cost an extra $6 million, an absolutely great trade by Chicago.

    • Who is to say Chicago doesn’t add a couple more players? Haren, Garza and Samardzija is pretty nice fucking front 3. If they were to lure Dempster back that gives them one hell of a starting rotation.

      Again they’ve got $ room. You never know especially after seeing what Oakland did.

      • True (though the deal is off the table now).

        I guess the Cubs could try contending ASAP. Makes sense in their market and mediocre division.

  28. Unrelated to this bullshit. I just reminded myself that both Happ and Delabar were great to finish the year. Provided Happ heals up well, I think I’m happy with the returns on the midseason deals last year.

    • Agreed. I’d like to see the Jays add two starters, put Alvarez in AAA to develop another pitch, and use Happ as the #5 starter. I was pleasantly surprised by him. Delabar looked great too.

      Lincoln looked pretty damn shitty, but he had the lowest ERA as a reliever in MLB prior to the trade IIRC. Hopefully he gets it back together.

      • Pretty much what I want too.

        In an ideal world, Happ, Alvarez, Jenkins are the #5-7 starters with a couple of Laffey types signed for Buffalo.

        2 Edwin Jacksons.

        That’s not asking for a lot, imo.

      • +++++agree on Alvarez in AAA, I can’t see him developing otherwise. I became an unrepentant Delabar fanboy after his 4K inning. Same thoughts as you on Lincoln, fingers crossed.

        • Yeah there is really zero reason for Alvarez to be in the majors to begin next year.

          No point having him as a #5 starter at best when he has top of the rotation potential if he adds another pitch.

  29. I guess on the plus side, I think Chicago is in an even better position to trade pitching.

    It could be Garza, but maybe even a slight chance of Samardisza if another team were willing to fill 2 or 3 holes?

    Hell, maybe they’ll just flip Haren for prospects in an hour.

  30. Hard to imagine this doesn’t get done buuuuut:

    Angels MLB reporter
    @Alden_Gonzalez

    Twist: Now I’m told reports of the deal are still premature — #Angels still active in discussions with more than one team.

  31. Angels writer has thrown up a story…not much more in there than his tweet…but I guess we’ll see soon enough if Haren is headed to Chicago or elsewhere:

    http://aldengonzalez.mlblogs.com/2012/11/02/haren-reportedly-going-to-chicago-for-marmol/

  32. And it begins

  33. Rosenthal confirms Haren deal is not done. Other teams still in play.

    • Now he is saying it’s up to Marmol who has a no trade clause. If he agrees the deal is done FUCK!

  34. Bah!

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    Decision rests with Marmol, according to source. If he agrees to join #Angels, Haren will go to #Cubs.

  35. Marmol wont turn down a move to Anaheim. Not a fuckin chance.

    Consider it done

    • True but Soriano turned down a move from the Cubs just last summer. That said, you’re probably correct. Seriously disappointed here. I know I really shouldn’t be until the Jays start showing otherwise, but man I was really hoping especially after the Santana deal.

  36. Oh well back to eating all the leftover Halloween candy and planning on which way I’m going to groom my Movember stache.

    • Speaking of Stache I wish AA would announce Fasano as manager.

      • Ha! You never know maybe the stache made an impact on AA’s gut feeling this time around.

        • I have no idea what any of these guys would actually be like as manager here, but I think I’d rather Sal or Sandy over Wakamatsu, Acta or Riggleman.

  37. Dave Cameron suggests to his readers how to think, as opposed to what to think.

    I really hope that in 25 years whatever self congratulatory significant writers awards body that exists in baseball that time has a fucking parade for this guy.

  38. RT @CarrieMuskat: #Cubs source says Marmol-for-Haren trade “not happening”

  39. Sox offer Ortiz 13.3 million/1 year

  40. Dan Haren is now the starting point in terms of quality for any Jays pitching acquisitions this winter because clearly this is proof that the Jays don’t deem Haren as quality enough to be in their rotation. AMIRIGHT?

  41. Actually now that the Cubs deal is allegedly off the table, why would Haren want to come to Toronto anyways? He can block a deal to 12 MLB clubs. The Jays don’t even have a friggin manager, nevermind cheap as fuck owners.

  42. Haren is back in play…let’s go AA. Clock is ticking and the bar is set pretty low (a $10 million reliever with terrible control).

    • Wow there’s a name from my childhood. Still remember listening to the radio with my dad all day Sunday as a 9 year old when Velez hit the 4 homers in the double header vs the Indians.

      • Otto the Swatto – simpler days

        • lol yep you said it. I’d take a DH like him, especially during his prime years in Toronto, any day. He’d make a great platoon partner to go with Lind. A career .855 OPS vs Lefties.

      • @ NM

        It was a beautiful sunny day. Great day for baseball. All that was missing was beer at the ballpark.Got a nice tan too.

        • Funny you should say that. We spent most of that day at Petticoat Creek Conservation Area. Amazing I can still remember so much of that day.

    • Ortiz re signs with Boston 2 years 26 million

  43. So how many here would trade Janssen for Haren?

    • I would not make that trade. Im a big fan of Jansen and I believe AA will aquire upgrades for the rotation without dealing away core pieces like Casey.

      • Interesting. Personally as much as I would hate to lose someone like Janssen, trading 60 innings for 200 innings of Haren’s potential would pretty much be a no-brainer assuming there would be room in the budget for other moves.

        I guess without knowing all the other variables that AA would have in front of him it’s probably not a fair question.

    • Free agency, prospects other than big 3 and names like Escobar, Arencibia and even Rasmus is what should be utilized to bring in the necessary starters IMO.

    • Haren won’t get back a Janssen type.

      Janssen has quite a bit of surplus value on his contract (which is rare for a reliever).

      Whereas Marmol has negative value, imo.

      Of course, GMs love closers so who knows.

      The longer this takes the less the return is imo.

      McGowan and Dyson for Haren is back on the table!

    • I’d think about it a while, and then I’d do it with a caveat. Janssen has more value than Marmol though. Less than 1/2 the cost, controlled for 2014 and was better last year. Ideally AA would squeeze some cash or a prospect from LA, but looking at Haren’s numbers, he had a really shitty June, then almost worked himself back to early season form by Sept/Oct. I think he’ll be solid this year, Janssen is a reasonable price for a 2/3 starter.

      • Yeah the years of control and cost certainly would come into play. Again not really a fair question because of things like that.

        • It’s really hard to judge value in this sense. I think the Santana trade is a red herring, but even if it’s shows the ballpark of Haren’s value, I think AA, as a value whore, has to be interested.

          I’m also presuming the Angels can’t give a qualifying offer if they turn down his option. If they can, that’s got to be there best play, but I suspect they can’t since trading for Marmol would be foolish otherwise.

    • I would hope it’s someone like Cecil or McGuire with the Angels throwing in the $3.5 million but who knows. I wouldn’t trade Janssen given that Marmol could have got the deal done and Santana was given away earlier this week (although I’m glad we weren’t in on that one).

    • Not a chance.

  44. I am really curious as to why the Cubs are the ones that reportedly backed out of the deal. Maybe his medicals didn’t look so good at a second glance after all. If he’s healthy I really thought it was a pure win for the Cubs.

    • After looking at them more closely, it’s clear Haren is a totally differnt tier than Santana right now. If it’s not something medical, the Cubs seem crazy not to do it. I also am even more certain I’d send Janssen their way if needed (preferrably with some sweetening)

      • I just dont think if yer serious about contending you relinquish yer number one reliever.
        You have to explore FA or move the moveable parts within the roster to aquire yer pitching.

        I understand you have to give to get ; but i wouldnt be moving an asset like Jansen for Haren.

        • Give them Lincoln.

        • I agree to a point – it’s not ideal to subtract from the big league roster to add pieces via trade, especially when there’s so much depth in the minors. But I also think Haren has more value than Janssen – for next year at least. Ultimately, I’d say LA needs to send a prospect with him to even it out, but, yeah, I it’s close even without that.

          • I disagree.

            Nobody is willing to pay $15.5 mil for Haren it appears.

            He likely has some value at $12 mil but it can’t be a lot if Marmol was acceptable as a return.

            Janssen, on the other hand, would get considerably more on the open market if he were a free agent.

            I’d like Haren, but it’s not like he’s the only way to upgrade the rotation.

          • I would sooner see a scenario where one starter is aquired via FA be it a Sanchez perhaps. And another aquired by moving JPA;ESCOBAR;RASMUS;SIERRA types along with prospects.

            I dont think AA needs to move assets like Jansen to come away with 2starters this off season.

            But who knows what the market will bring right.

          • @chanse Do you honestly thing Janssen has more value than Rasmus, Escobar or JPA?? That’s crazy talk. Janssen had a great year, and I love him on the team, both those are three solid every day, if flawed players at premium positions.

            • Its not crazy talk. I believe Jansen is more valuable to the team as he would be harder to replace. Hell this was the first year the jays have had stability at the closer position since BJ Ryan was on the shit. JPA,Escobar n Rasmus could be replaced by TDA, Hech and Gose if dealt. You could argue the same for Jansen but Delabar has never closed and Santos is coming off an injury. I wouldnt wanna go back to the revolving door days of the jays closer position; we remember how well that worked out.
              Just My Opinion

    • “”Maybe his medicals didn’t look so good at a second glance after all. If he’s healthy I really thought it was a pure win for the Cubs.”

      Really hard to imagine why they’d back out otherwise.

      • We’d know for sure his medicals would be totally fucked up if it was Kenny Williams offering to trade him.

        Maybe Kenny gave Theo a tip on what to look out for lol

  45. This Haren trade has to happen in the next half hour, right?

    I guess it doesn’t have to…but it would be so anti-climactic.

    • Well they could always exercise the option and try and move him a little later. They’d likely have to pay more money in any future deal if they were to try and move him then. Not a complete loss for them considering that others have made valid points about it being a good idea for the Angels to keep him for now.

      Come on AA leave the gyro’s for Saturday night and pull one out for us.

      • Personally, I think this is what LAA should do. I don’t see the rush.

        But all the rumours up until now suggested it had to be done b4 the option deadline.

        Is it actually possible that they might buy him out in the next few minutes?

        Maybe AA could get away with simply willing to eat an extra $500,000. If LAA is so hellbent on moving him better to save a half mil than get nothing.

        • I was under the impression that they had until 10 pm their time, making it 1 am here. But I could be wrong.

  46. Is Haren a good bet to be a #3? If so trading for him would take Jays out of contention to sign or trade for a 1-2.

    • I think of Haren as a #3. He could be a #2 or he could be worse so #3 seems like a happy medium.

      A #1 starter is so hard to come by. It would be easier to hope Haren, Morrow & Romero could be three #2s and get the same production out of the top 3 slots in the rotation.

  47. lol Twitter is too quiet. Wonder what all the reporters are doing?

  48. Angels declined option. Haren a free agent now. Wow

    • Hard to believe they couldn’t extract anything for the rights to Haren especially with all the money flying around. Would love to get a glimpse of those negotiations.

      • Is it fair to call Rogers cheap now?

        • Well for once Rogers was on par with the rest of the league.

          • True I guess. But it just would have made so much sense to land Haren for the Jays. If things work out, he could be given a qualified offer next year ensuring extra draft pick(s) if he leaves. There’s the opportunity to resign him as well if he’s any good. It also would have bought another year for the prospects that won’t be traded to grow.

            I mean, grabbing Haren then one of Marcum, Jackson, whoever, and all of a sudden the Jays starting pitching is at least okay. It seems like Haren would be a sure upgrade and all it would have cost is money and a prospect.

            Making moves is always a gamble, but in this case it would have only been gambling money. If AA is limited to a budget that doesn’t let him do a deal like this, then there’s really no point to watching this team until the prospects grow up. And that’s just a different gamble.

    • I wouldn’t be surprised if LAA resigns him a la Rajai Davis with a home town discount. Harem didn’t want to leave and basically said so. He’ll get a short-term deal to prove himself.

      • I think you’re right. Honestly, that’s the only thing that makes sense right now.

        Unless teams think they can sign him for $10-12 a year and not give up anything at all to the Angels.

  49. AA obviously didnt value Haren at the 15 mill. Even if Halos kicked in 3.5 im not sure. He could have easily give the Halos a better deal than Cubbies. Now Haren is a free agent and AA can offer his price and give up nothin. Smart move Id say.

    • Watch some stupid team pay haren MORE than what he would have earned in his option.

      • Welcome to Boston Dan! We’re looking forward to a lot of championships during your 5 year contract. Meet Pappy, your pitching coach.

  50. Wow. So Sam Dyson to pay $12 mil of Haren’s contract was apparently better than any offer LAA received.

    I am vindicated.

    Either the medicals are scary or teams don’t value a righty with a sub 89 mph FB at $12 mil.

  51. I’m really curious to see what kind of contract Haren receives now.

    I’m gonna say it’s one of the following:

    1 year $10 million
    2 years $18 million
    3 years $24 million

    As long as the medicals are okay, I’d take any of the 3 and gamble on him being at least a touch better than last year. And even if he’s not, #3/4 starter would still be useful.

    • I think he signs for one year with the Angels at a discount.

      Or…. I really see no reason why he still couldn’t get a decent multiple year deal. KLaw has him ranked as the #4 free agent starter.

  52. My God with the number of FA starters out there in the mid-tier range who would be helpful to this team, if AA can’t find 2 of them he’s done something wrong.

  53. How does signing Daisuke to a $1 Million one year deal sound? I would do it instantly, not sure about a $2 or $3 Million contract though. It would be funny to see Daisuke put together a good season for the Jays on a cheap contract after what Boston paid for him.

    • At this point, Daisuke’s more of a non-guarantee’s fling shit at the wall pickup rather than someone that can depended on. For a million bucks… sure, but I’d be looking in his direction around February, and not much before.

  54. How much says Farrett blabbed to the Sox about how hard AA was going to go after Ortiz this offseason – so the Sux made sure to lock him up before becoming a FA?

  55. Very weird with Haren.

    I can’t believe the Cubs wouldn’t have traded Marmol for him.

  56. Strange read on this post by Stoet – must be a slow news day! Scribes writting of AA’s bold new moves designed to get us into contention immediatly, spending money because fans are grumbling that the front office is cheap.
    None of this fits the AA strategy. Guess this sells newspapers though

  57. After this, Frasor should not be retained. He shouldn’t have been brought back anyways.

  58. How do all the elitist DJF hacks feel now that Parkes has accomplished the grand feat of getting mention on the home page of MLB.com.

    “AL’s smallest pond?

    The offseason isn’t even a week old, but Sports on Earth’s (Wait wat?) Dustin Parkes gets a head start on next year, previewing the AL Central — which, in his words, is the smallest of baseball’s ponds.”

    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40143734/

    For shame djf…. bask in the glory of true sports pseudo-journalism.

  59. MLBTR reported last night that the Nationals extended a qualifying offer to Adam LaRoche. The offer is for 1 year $13.3M meaning he would net the Nats a draft pick as compensation should he leave. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/nationals-make-adam-laroche-qualifying-offer.html

    I could certainly see this shaping up in the Jays favor – should LaRoche choose free agency to see if he can get extra years. The Jays have a protected pick so in theory could offer similar salary for 2 or 3 years to get it done, and might not be competing against a lot of other teams because of the cost of the draft pick.

    • How many picks in the draft are protected? 10-12-15?? And when did 13.3m become the platform for netting compensation?

      Just curious

      • Thanks to the disaster of the season we watched the Jays qualified to have their first round pick protected if they sign a FA who is above the threshold. I don’t know it to be fact but 13.3 seems to be the magic number as all of the qualified players are being offered one year deals at this amount. Any team who doesn’t have the protection would have to surrender their first round pick if they signed a player like LaRoche or Lohse.

        • Yes but at what slot in the standings would a pick no longer be protected?

          What im asking is how shitty does a team have to finish in the standings to have a protected pick?

  60. $26 million for LaRoche seems like a pretty bad use of resources for the Jays

    • 850 ops w 33 hrs from a left handed veteran bat seems like all of the things the jays need this season. He and EE could split DH/1B and you’d be looking at a crazy middle of the lineup. He was worth about 4War and $17m last season so I’d say $13 or $14 for 3 or so would be excellent. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t get that.

      • That’s just projecting a career year to be the norm.

        Look what that did for the Jays and Adam Lind.

        • ok career year admittedly – but you cannot use Adam Lind as a comparator for a guy who has been very good over the course of his career. His numbers are very consistent even if he didn’t have the same results here. Its not the same at all. LaRoche is a proven commodity with the upside of being very strong. He’s got almost 200 HRs and 280 doubles in his career wOBA is 350. The Jays could do a lot worse ..

  61. Laroche would be a better bargain than Ortiz and is a better player as well

    • I would say Laroche has less risk than Ortiz but does not the upside that Ortiz has in his bat. And yes, overall he’d be probably be worth more because of his defense. Unfortunately, I think he’s a luxury just like Ortiz until the pitching is solved first. With EE capable of playing a very good first base I’d look to fill Left Field first among the hitters. Preferably someone like Melky or Hunter.

      • You’re right about upside in his bat – but all the same, take away Fenway from Ortiz and I don’t think its as clear as you make it seem.

        You say LaRoche would be a luxury because we need pitching and then suggest Melky Cabrera… who for the record I would love to see on the Jays.. but I don’t see the offseason as an either-or proposition. The Jays need help on offense and pitching. I actually think this is a good FA year for what the Jays need if they will man up and make a move or two.

      • I like the idea of Hunter provided 2 Year contract however im sure he will garner 3 years.

        Im somewhat torn on a guy like Melky although I wouldnt hate it if he signed

        Agreed a quality starting arm has to be first priority.

        A manager hiring wouldnt hurt either fuck me!

      • Pitching 1st…!!

  62. Bye Aviles. We hardly new ye.

  63. By a Cleveland journalist making a list of the best designs for Lebron’s new line of Nike shoes:
    Paul Molitor. Roberto Alomar. John Olerud. Joe Carter. Bring back memories of the Blue Jays’ glory years with this colorway of the LeBron X, modeled after the classic Toronto Blue Jays logo. Dueling shades of blue mixed with red and white have always made the Blue Jays logo one of the best in sports, and those colors translate nicely onto a pair of ‘Brons.
    Link to follow

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