Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of (and that I need to distract myself with in order to keep from arguing with the commenters), with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Gregor Chisholm lists some of the candidates to fill the Jays’ managerial vacancy in a piece at, with some strong praise for the first name on the list, Tim Wallach. Gregor sounds insistent that Wallach ought to be considered one of the favourites, which I’d totally buy.

Thing is, the question that keeps coming up when we talk about it around the office is, if they want a Wallach or an Alomar or any of the available names we’ve already heard, why the hell wouldn’t they just gone ahead and hired them already? You could almost get the feeling that they might be waiting for someone– which is why I mentioned Darren’s piece at Extra Base Hit in my previous post, where he wonders about a guy we haven’t heard, a guy who could pretty much write his own ticket and may be holding up the process while he decides whether to do it or not. A guy like Joe Torre, like Ozzie Guillen, like Tony La Russa (you’re welcome, Colby!). Or, I dunno… Lou Piniella? As I’ve mentioned in the comments, and on Twitter this afternoon, it might cost Rogers more money than Manny Acta, but bringing in one of those names sure would be an efficient way to buy back some good will from the fans– and to get the clubhouse to sit up and take notice. Otherwise, how could they possibly be as far behind in the process as they appear, having seen Valentine flaming out in Boston for months, knowing Farrell– who they didn’t seem to want to negotiate an extension with anyway– would be interested in the opportunity again?

Jays Journal likes what Alex Anthopoulos has done with his bullpen, building a strong group of power arms and options to face both righties and lefties for relatively cheap, noting the ridiculous deal already signed by Brandon League this year, and the fact that the decent relievers who are out there as free agents are going to be costly for a very budget-aware club like the Jays.

Speaking of that, the Esmil Rogers deal not only saved the Jays whatever they may have been considering giving to Jason Frasor or Brandon Lyon (assuming they’re now off the table), but Mike Aviles salary as well. Aviles was recently projected by MLBTR to get $2.9-million in arbitration, meaning they’ll save in the neighbourhood of $2.5-million there, plus probably another $4- to $5-million by putting Frasor and Lyon out of the picture. Hey, every dollar counts– and I kinda love how the front office seems to be rather transparent in their attempted accounting, making sure by their actions that everyone knows Rogers is holding the purse strings tightly.

Over at the Tao of Stieb, The Org Guy gets a little negative on the Rogers move, wondering why the club took a step backwards in the middle infield to add another arm in the ‘pen, and pointing to a pair of tweets from Colin Wyers who says it’s “the second time I can recall the Jays got an utter steal and traded it almost immediately for a reliever.” On a positive note, he adds, at least we can stop talking about– and worrying the Jays are going to actually use– Yan Gomes.

Even more negative is the whole concept, mentioned above, of Rogers being tight-fisted with money, as usual. “Recession?” asks the title of a piece from Jon Morosi at Fox Sports, ”Not in Scott Boras’ world.” He quotes the uber-agent as explaining that “the good news for [teams] is that every team is going to have another $25 million in revenue through the national TV packages. They’re going to be making between $110 million and $120 million (including other revenue streams) before they sell a ticket. It’s a different financial model. Every team can afford to keep a franchise player now.”

House of the Bluebird looks into the four best, most realistic free agent options on the market for the Jays: Anibal Sanchez, Edwin Jackson, Brandon McCarthy and Dan Haren.

Dave Cameron of FanGraphs makes an important point regarding the health concerns surrounding Haren, and the knowledge the Angels may have relative to everyone else. He quotes Matt Swartz, who has dug into the data, suggesting “a team pays “about twice as much per WAR for another team’s pitcher as (they) do re-signing (their) own pitcher.”

Jays Prospects speaks with some… um… Jays prospects who endorse the new manager of the Miami Marlins, Mike Redmond.

At, Keith Law has buyers’ guide middle infielders in which he says that Kelly Johnson “looked finished in 2012, especially in the second half, even though he’ll turn just 31 in February.” Ouch. He figures he might get a look on a minor league deal, but his days as a regular are probably over.

David Schecter of Jays Journal takes the media to task for the suggestion that the Jays have to contend ASAP. And… sure, the team isn’t going anywhere if they don’t, and they’re still listing in basically the right direction regardless of the pissing and moaning that goes on, but… at the same time, there really isn’t an excuse for not putting together a competitive roster this winter. And that comes down squarely on the head of Rogers.

In Macleans, even though it’s grating at times, given that he has a bit of an agenda (which he’s at least up front about), Colby Cosh asks some important questions about baseball stat guru turned political stat guru Nate Silver. Great discussion on it in the comments at Baseball Think Factory as well.

Beyond the Boxscore has some interesting stuff up about Tommy John surgeries, including the most complete list available of those pitchers who have had one.

Lastly, at Getting Blanked, Drew points out that Billy Hamilton did things this weekend in the AFL’s Rising Stars game (where Jake Marisnick has flown ridiculously under the radar, I should add– Sam Dyson, as Jays Journal points out, was the only one of the organization’s prospects in the game). Also: you should Vote Melky.

Comments (155)

  1. Why in the fuck the Tao’s Org Guy be questioning the Aviles and Rogers deal? Doesn’t understand basic math or something?

    At least Mike McCoy is happier.

    • Um, because it looked to be part way to a reasonable middle infield solution: Hechavarria in Buffalo, Escobar at short and Aviles as half a 2B platoon.

  2. Interesting to hear Frank Catalonotto pick for manager. MIKE BORDICK

    Im sure someone on here is gonna say what about his dream job scenario in Baltimore. Please lets get passed the dream job hoopla.

    Just neat to see what respect ex players have for certain guys.

  3. Isn’t it possible that Kelly Johnson just looked like he was “finished” in the second half because he probably was hurt and stopped caring just like the rest of the team did once they fell out of it in early August? I still think he has the most upside of any FA 2B out there

    • sad but possibly true. 2b is so shallow and Adeiny is probably not quite ready to hit at the MLB level for a full season. I don’t mind KJ, decent D, some on-base skills. He will never be a sexy player but does a few things half decent.

    • I can not handle watching Kelly Johnson swing through another pitch for strike 3. FUCK THAT NOISE.

      And how do you figure he has more upside than Marco Scutaro?

    • Was just going to say that if he’s going to come as cheap as Keith Law is saying then why not get him and platoon him with Hechavarria. Hechavarria gets to be your utility guy the rest of the time. However, then I actually went and looked at his career splits and I was kind of shocked to see that he’s one of those weird hitters who has reverse splits even though the difference is very slight. Career splits are .763 OPS vs RHP and .778 vs LHP.

      You have to wonder though, does a player at 31 just drop off the cliff like that without an underlying issue? In a way his season looks very similar to Haren’s. Two good months to start the year, then an injury and ugly numbers. At least Haren had a good last month to make you think he got healthy again.

      • Maybe KJ didn’t rebound like Haren did at the end because either his injury was still lingering and he never had a chance to rest enough because Farrell wouldn’t use Vizquel for an extended period, or alternatively he was a bit apathetic by the end of the year. Isn’t that what we’re hoping happened to Yunel and Colby also?

        KJ has more upside than Scutaro because Scutaro’s ceiling is an OPS of .750, whereas KJ has had seasons of .800 OPS’s. KJ has more power and is about as good at getting on base as Scoot, he just needs to figure out how to stop striking out.

        And finally, there is no way Hech will be used as a platoon/utility guy this year. He’ll get full time at bats either in AAA (hopefully) or MLB

        • Haren has also had more than one good season over the past four.

        • lol I love everyone’s certainty regarding Hechavarria’s playing time. The fact is we just don’t know, but considering he played in 41 of 55 games after getting called up there’s nothing to suggest that he won’t be the utility guy if the team needs him to be that guy based on the roster’s needs. His salary is already included in the major league payroll and if money is as tight as everyone is suggesting then that will play a large factor. This isn’t 2010 anymore where the team has the luxury to go slow with every single prospect. I’m not saying it’s an ideal situation but to just dismiss the chance out of hand is silly.

          As for KJ I definitely would be willing to take another shot on him if the price was right.

          Maybe he would work better with a different style hitting coach. Who knows. Of course it would certainly help if we knew who those were.

          • I’d love to say just to not bring Murph back, but the man got results. You can’t say that about Farrell and Walton. They didn’t get the pitching straightened out- I’m not sure Hentgen is even the right guy for that either, though.

          • Hechavarria won’t be a utility guy. The certainty is there for a reason.

          • I like bringing Mottola up and have he and Murph split the duties. Apparently they’re in constant touch with each other anyway. As for pitching. I dont know. When Delabar got there Walton apparently fixed something in his mechanics and got him to throw strikes. But that’s it. He couldnt fix Cecil Drabek Alvarez or Romero.

        • Beyond the emotional letdown of a strikeout, I’m pretty sure there is very little statistical difference between a strikeout and any other out. Yes, I get that some are more productive (i.e. sac flies, or grounders that advance runners….on the other hand, there are no strikeout GIDP’s). Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t the saber crowd determined that a strikeout is not significantly any worse then any other out?

          What matters is if they get on base or not, and extra base power. If two guys have the exact same stats except Hitter A gets all his outs via groundout and Hitter B gets all his via strikeout…..I don’t think there is any difference between the two.

          Watching strikeouts all the time is demoralizing, but I don’t think it matters either way

    • i’m down with this. kj looked great the first month and a half of the year. i think he has upside.

    • Very tue. I doubt KJ is on the verge of being demoted to AAA.

      He had a hamstring problem & played throughout the year when no one else was available.

      It must have affected his performance.

  4. A few good reads at too about Greinke, Anibal, Hamilton. Found it at JAys aggregator (another cool site).

  5. Stoeten. If no impactual moves are made this winter or spring, where do you stand as a fan with this club’s progress?

    • impactual.

    • I’m worried that the Jays will just continue being the eternal 75-85 win team. Their core and group of prospects is good but things won’t progress in a linear arc. Sure by 2014-15 the Jays could have d’Arnaud and the big three playing well for them, but at that point Jose, Morrow, Romero, Escobar, etc. could all be only shells of their former selves. A step forward with prospects but a step back with the veterans.

      At some point the Jays will have to sustain a winning team instead of hoping everything comes together in the future.

      • @Jimmy.

        It’s possible & likely that the team will be in the 75-85 win purgatory until their prospects outperform expectations or they get lucky on a few trades or Rogers opens the vault.

        One of the issues I would like Stoeten to track is the performance of AA’s draft picks from 2010 onwards.

        We know about the Lansing trio & Marisnick ,& D’Arnaud but what;s going on in the minorleague system.

        Can anyone make the jump from NH or Buffalo to the opening day roster in 2013???

        AA has to ensure that prospects in the Jays system are not mishandled like Travs snider. ( I know some of the blame lies with Snider’s injuries) but he was the gold standard for prospects & is now with the Pirates as a fringe player.

    • Impossible to say until we know the cost of making the deals they, in your hypothetical, choose not to make.

  6. That was a nice job by the guys that complied the list of Tommy John surgeries. Pity it didn’t go the extra mile and show before and after stats but that’s undoubtedly a shit ton of work.

  7. Random question. I just realized yesterday that Hech’s contract with the Jays expires after this season. What happens to Cubans after their contracts run out? Why do we still talk like Hech has a future long term with the Jays? Will he become a FA next year? Does he get deported back to Cuba? Does he become arbitration eligible? I have no idea. Does anyone here know?

    • I think I read somewhere earlier this season that he switches back to a similar situation as the other players. It will be based on his service time.

    • I looked at Jose Contreras as an example. He wasn’t granted free agency until his 6 years were up.

      • Yep, Hech isn’t a free agent once the deal’s done.

        • Anyone know when he’s arbitration eligible?

          • He won’t be arbitration eligible until the 2015 offseason at the earliest (2016 salary). If he starts 2013 and plays a few months in Buffalo, it could be the 2016 offseason (2017 salary). Basically, it’s not going to be an issue for a while.

      • For clarity, since you mentioned Contreras, yes Hech is in the same situation (needs 6 years of mlb service), but that isn’t universal. Yoenis Cespedes will be a free agent once his 4 year deal with Oakland expires. It just needs to be put into the contract that the person becomes elibible for FA (or that they can’t be offered arbitration, which accomplished the same thing if the original deal takes them past their first 3 years of MLB service).

  8. If the Jays had very little interest in Aviles, then what’s the harm in dealing him after this deal was mostly done by Beeston anyways. He wasn’t an AA guy and he may have even shown his displeasure by immediately dealing him- I didn’t get what I really wanted. It also helps because fans aren’t going to stare at Aviles and compare the manager trade for t w o whole fucking years long. It’s over already and the team can move on.

    Let’s just hope it’s a more wild offseason than last year and lots of moving parts (other than Escobar- he’s my favorite Jay!).

    • It’ll be a lot more fun watching Rogers strike out the side against The Former Manager’s team than seeing them give Aviles an 0-4 day.

      • Let’s just hope his elbow ligaments make it into the regular season after the disasterfuck of 2012.

        I think change for the sake of change would be approved of in regards to the trainers / medical staff. Obviously, the CWS know some things that the Jays don’t about keeping pitchers on the mound. Seriously, hire some clubhouse staff guy to spy or something because we need some mofo pixie dust. Frasor and Santos should have been interrogated for everything they saw and heard about during their time there. W\HAT ARE THEIR SECRETS. YOU WILL TELL ME EVERYTHING I WANT TO KNOW.

    • This is a take worth considering– especially for what it might mean for the Beeston-AA relationship if it’s true AA didn’t really ever want Aviles, but Beeston went over his head.

      • Didnt AA say that the deal was done entirely at the ownership/president level? It’s probably more useful to check out who wanted that 1st. It doesnt look to me that Beeston cared much either way what AA did after that.

      • @ stoeten

        Sorry Stoeten, gotta disagree.
        The theory makes no sense to me.
        This isn’t some small time office political showdown, with the protege getting back at the boss because his feelings are hurt.
        Calculated move all the way.
        AA’s strings are being pulled by Beeston and AA is getting the education of his life.
        The take.ain’t worth considering because it doesn’t make any sense.

        • Oh look, is it RADAR saying things like they’re true that he can’t possibly know are true and providing exactly zero evidence as to why he’s saying it’s not true? Of course it is.

    • @ Ed Sprague.

      The trade of aviles proves that this wasn’t AA’s decsion to acquire him. It looks like Beeston made this call or Boston told Beeston he had a choice of 2 players & AA chose Aviles over the damaged goods Bailey.

  9. wouldn’t cal ripken be a great manager? I don’t care if his dream job is you know where. he has so much acharacter he’d never ask out.

  10. Bobby Cox for manager

  11. Actually, maybe we should play the Who would be the top 10 worst managers for the Jays!


    Let’s round out the list.

    • Ozzie Guillen? It could work out, but it could be an utter disaster too.

      also Cito Gaston just because I have still heard people wanting him back.

    • I want to put up Ozzie Guillen’s name. I cant understand why it keeps popping up. The guy’s a hispanic Bobby Valentine.

  12. Bring in Joe Torre!

  13. I’d actually have no problems at all of bringing KJ back on a minor league deal.

    • Since its such a shallow FA pool for 2b wouldnt KJ be able to attain a contract for 2m. I understand his stock is low and im not a fan in particular of him at all but i think a minor league contract is a liitle unrealistic.

      guess we will see

  14. Cox
    Torre (at 72 years old)
    Acta (twice fired in a recent amount of time)

    Keep going on this list!

    • Managers being fired rarely has anything to do with how good they are at their job. Managers are scapegoats, that’s all. Acta would be great.

      • The media will be on Alex about hiring a guy fired twice already. Maybe you’re not familiar with the massive inferiority complex around after it was stoked hot after Farretball took his show East?

        Acta might not even last three months if the team has a bad start. Alex needs someone established and respected (not just by players) or else someone with a fresh start so they can survive the first season if things don’t go well.

        • Manager that are established and respected, haven’t been fired, and are available basically don’t exist. If it’s not going to be a manager getting his first job, it’s going to have to be someone who is a retread to some extent.

        • That’s a good point. Jays fans may be willing to give a rookie manager like wallach or alomar more rope than Manny Acta

  15. How bout Tim Johnson? Compulsive liar

    But i prefer the positive road. I like the idea of Sal Fasano but who fuckin knows what AA has in mind.

    I truly hope they dont go after an experienced guy just for the sake of having experience ie Jim Tracy. Guys like Matheny and Ventura were great illustrations of what a manager should look like and they were fresh faces. Like a Fasano

    Ozzie seems a bit off his rocker and the Cito train has come and gone.

  16. Cox
    Torre (at 72 years old)
    Acta (twice fired in a recent amount of time)
    T. Johnson
    Vizquel (!)

    • I’d have no problem with either Torre or (maybe a small problem, but I’d get over it) with LaRussa.

  17. Scott Baker as the number 4 starter isn’t the worst right?

    • No there is a lot to like in Baker for the back end of the rotation. I wouldnt be against it. In saying that im not sure what it would take. Prolly 5-7mill?

  18. Also, in the rush to hire a new manager, some of the available candidates may need a little time to research the team to provide a plan for what they will do with the players. They probably weren’t expecting Boston to actually get what they wanted. I am not pretending to know what goes into one of these binders but I’m sure it’s more than just I’ll put my hands around the throat of the first person that thinks about embarrassing this organization (Although I would hire that guy immediately!).

  19. The Not Official List of Worst Manager Candidates for the TBJs

    1. Cito
    2. LaRussa (He’s a lawyer!)
    3. Cox
    4. Valentine
    5. Guillen
    6. Old Man Torre
    7. Viet Vet Johnson
    8. Respected Jim Tracy
    9. faux canadiana Whitt
    10. Twice Shy Acta
    +1 manager under bus thrower Vizquel

    • I would have absolutley no problems with Torre being the manager for the next 3-4 years. Can’t see it happening, but I don’t think he deserves to be on this list.

    • Don’t fuck with Whitt.

      That boy has dugout cred.

    • I say we try and bring Tom Kelly out of retirement. He might be a complete dinosaur, but hey, five time manager of the year! He’s the only other name that popped to mind as a potentially available big name manager who’s had success.

      • + Billions and Billions !

      • Kelly is ( it looks like) semi retired. Heres a quote from his Wiki page

        “…Jay Thomas Kelly (born August 15, 1950 in Graceville, Minnesota), is the former manager of the Minnesota Twins baseball team from 1986 to 2001. Currently, he serves as a Special Assistant to the General Manager for the Twins.”

        Bet he could do it. But also bet he wouldnt.

        btw he’s only 62.

      • FWIW, I misread his BBRef page. He’s only a one time manager of the year. In any case, I suspect Carl Sagan is correct that he’s not gettable, but I like the idea.

  20. Excellent work all around by the Comment Section!

    Fuck is Stoeten going to pissed when he sees Manny on that list…

  21. Who here thinks there’s something weird in the Dan Haren “non-deal” with the Angels and Sox and the subsequent “cutting loose” of Haren? I cant seem to find who quashed the deal either but it makes me wonder about how bad a signing Haren might be in light of it.

    • Ok just read the Cameron piece at Fangraphs….Just as I suspected. There’s definitely something physically wrong with Haren and The Angels were hoping to fleece some unsuspecting team. The Sox sniffed it out and cancelled the deal. I’m betting it’s some kind of degenerative disc disease that showed up in the MRIs when he was injured. That explains why no one else was interested.

      • ouch, wouldn’t want to be the team to give a fat contract to someone with a “degenerative disc disease” even though I don’t really know what the hell that is

    • You keep saying Sox

  22. alex is waiting to announce the new manager until after I am elected.

  23. alex is once again making a fool of himself dragging out this manager search forever. it isn’t that complicated but alex is making it so. the fact is there is no rule book on who will be a good manager. alex already fucked up the first time so he obviously doesn’t know what to look for. once thing I do know is that catchers make better managers so hire alomar or waku and get it over with already.

  24. This might seem like a real long-shot but it seems like AA is looking for Felipe Alou to come out of retirement.

    Some of the things seem to fit –
    - he has experience leading young teams and bringing the best out of them.
    - he has a winning record as a manager
    - he has post season managing experience
    - he is a Dominican and can relate easier to the Latin American players.
    - he has a Canadian wife.
    - he has connections to AA’s former club – Montreal Expos – and AA would have worked with him for two years (00-02)
    - Tim Wallach played for him.
    - Manny Acta coached for him.

    If it wasn’t for his age, he would be the perfect manager for the Jays.

    • +1000

      Felipe Alou would be the perfect manager for a young team.

      He brought the 92-94 expos to the brink of a world series.

      However, he has to be at leasts 75 & I can’t see him getting involved.

      A would have been 14 years old when Felipe started managing the expos.

  25. One more thing:

    Right now he’s working as a special assistant to Brian Sabean, the GM of the 2012 World Series Champions.

    • Apparently he is 77

      • At that age you better be comfortable with whoevers second in command to take over after Lawrie n Escobar give him a fuckin stroke. unless he goes Jim Brown on those kids.

        ”I dont get strokes, I givem Mutha Fucka”. ANY GIVEN SUNDAY CLASSIC!!!!

      • I am guessing that would make him the third oldest manager to ever manage a MLB team, behind Connie Mack (87) of the Philadelphia Athletics, and Jack McKeon (80) of the Miami Marlins (retired 2011).

  26. According to Canoe Art Howe wants to manage the Jays.

  27. According to Bob Elliot’s article in the Sun, Art Howe wants the job, hasn’t managed in a while, couldn’t be any worse than some of the other names thrown around.

  28. How about good old Augie Garrido…he’d be fun!

  29. Ideally, I would pick:
    Manager: Sandy Alomar
    Bench: Fasano
    1st: Rivera
    3rd: Robbie
    Pitching: Hentgen
    Bullpen: Horsman (unless it’s more important to keep him developing pitchers in the minors)

  30. Also, you stick with that bunch as long as they stay flexible and not get set in only one approach.
    Hitting: Murph and Motorola


    …and so the meme begins.

  32. As silly as it sounds to consider that Joe Torre could somehow be in the mix … this DOES seem like an odd manager search. None of the candidates have acknowledged they’ve even been interviewed. We don’t even REALLY know who the candidates are. I mean, have there even BEEN interviews? What is AA doing?

    After the Farrell disaster, you would think AA would want to get a new man in place ASAP. Presumably AA liked Alomar Jr and Hale a lot since they were finalists two years ago. And yet Alomar said he hadn’t had an interview with the Jays. Wouldn’t that be the first stop?

    Either A) AA genuinely just wants to take his sweet time choosing between guys we assume are in the running (Alomar, Wallach, Fasano?, Williams?, Butterfield?, Acta?) and isn’t worried about going through the process slowly…

    or B) As Stoeten said, they’re holding out for someone and it’s holding up the process. Which you’d assume leaves Torre… Guillen (?)..

    Blair and Brunt have said that Rogers/the Jays want to make some kind of bold move to erase the recent cynicism. Maybe they see getting a ‘star’ manager as a way to begin that.

    I still think that the most likely scenario is that AA wants to get this right, is taking his time, and doesn’t give a damn what the media says… but the second option is fun to think about.

    • AA will put the manage in General Manager. He’s done looking for the new manager because he found the ideal candidate in the mirror. #truespeak #mistermanager

    • Or, maybe he’s testing all the candidates to see if they can follow company policy and not disclose anything. The last candidate to leak something about themselves gets hired! Secret Manager Survivor

  33. Great to read we have the best accountants in MLB! I can hardly wait to see the 2013 fiscal budget. Great news really. AA for Auditor!

    • @birddawg.


      Sadly, there is no prize for the best WAR adjusted team per payroll dollar.

      However, if there was , would n’t the A’s or Tampa Bay Rays be the best value?

  34. Given that AA is not a stupid guy, and given that the world knew that Valentine would be gone. And given that the Sux actually kept him on until the end of the season instead of firing his ass in July when it was crystal clear he was never gonna get the players back on his side thus making it clear they were waiting for that special someone, I have to believe that AA knew from around then, no matter what he said, that Farrell would be gone at the end of the season. So I do think he at least started to make plans then. If, after all these weeks, he hires Acta or Wakamatsu, then he will not look all that good. Because a GM who takes that long to hire someone he’s been considering looks like a GM who can’t make up his mind. So I have hope that the hire will be an exciting one. But this team has let me down so mant times…

    • @Isabella.

      Agreed. I have no idea what AA will do.

      But didnt AA hire Farrell by now.?

    • Unless he has his sights set on a big flashy hiring but it doesn’t get done. Not like he can say, “Well I really wanted to hire Joe Torre, but we couldn’t convince him so we decided to go with Don Wakamatsu. Go get ‘em Wak!”

      It would be disappointing, but I have the feeling he’s waiting/trying to convince someone of that ilk and it’s at a 50/50 kind of state. AA doesn’t want to tip his hand, in case his attempt to bring Connie Mack back to life (or whatever big managerial splash he’s attempting) falls apart.

  35. It feels like the Jays are setting up an excuse if they don’t win in 2013 – We just didn’t have the manager in place soon enough to give us a chance to win….

    Is there hope for 2014?

  36. Blinding Billy Hamilton?

  37. Jeff Blair with Hayhurst both agreeing the Jays need to flash the cash this off-season in order for anyone to take them seriously. Also Blair believes better to see what kind of players the team gets before finalizing a manager.

    • Hayhurst actually came up with a logical conclusion? On live radio? I’m officially impressed.

      There really is no rush in hiring a manager. I know there’s some on this blog that would like to see the process completed, but really, what’s the rush? The one I don’t understand is, “Waaaah they haven’t interviewed Matt Williams yet!!1!11″ Didn’t Anthopoulos say he wanted to hire someone who has managerial experience at the MLB level?


  38. All I see when I look at this Aviles deal is that AA has already been given a budget and is trying to work to get as much salary dumped so he can maybe be competitive for one free agent pitcher this winter. That sucks.

    I keep seeing people write that the trade is fine because it allows the Jays to let go of the salaries for Frasor, Lyon and Aviles. The problem is, pinching pennies on these players should not matter at all if the Jays were serious about contending and AA had any leeway to start spending. Does anyone believe that Esmil Rogers is a significant updgrate over Frasor or Lyon? If not, then it’s only about money. If AA was allowed to spend like he should be, Aviles would still be a Blue Jay and cash would have been used to find an Esmil Rogers rather than a player.

    If his budget is so tight that he had to make this trade then I predict a depressing off season when it comes to free agent signings.

    • I fear you’re right.

      • Sure, there may be budget implications here, but yeah, I think it’s very defensible to think that Esmil Rogers is an upgrade on Frasor and Lyon. He was essentially even to Lyon last year after coming over to Cleveland, and Frasor wasn’t particularly good when healthy last year.

        Considering that it goes with a saving of $7M or so (Aviles + FA reliever) isn’t that just a smart move? Every team has to make smart moves. We laugh at the Dodgers for giving Brandon League a crazy deal but then get upset when our team is financially prudent?

        I’m happy to see the Jays get the cost savings here, and show that they have their sights set higher than Mike Aviles at 2B. Even more, think what you can get with $7M on the FA market. If that gets you a year of Scutaro, for example, wouldn’t you prefer Scutaro + Rogers to Aviles + Lyon?

    • @Brett . Very well said.

      AA seems to be busy making the small moves here & there that have +1 or 2 WAR, with a cheap bullpen which may be more effective.

      No problem. Who wants to spend 4 million to see Frasor give up a 2 out HR to the Yankees when we are ahead by 1 run.

      But , if he saves 5 or 6 million on the bullpen, is that enough for a frontline starter??

  39. Thoughts on the jays signing Josh Hamilton to a five year deal? He is currently asking for a ridiculous amount at 175 over 7 years. i think that it might be possible to talk him down to a five year 100 mill deal range.
    Also Elvis Andrus is rumored to be on the trade block since the Rangers have to make room for the top prospect in baseball. could AA work out a trade for Andrus in the way of Escobar, Arenciebia, and an arm?
    Then lock up free agents Anibal and McCarthy and the team is looking pretty good. but what the hell do i know

    • Thoughts on the jays signing Josh Hamilton to a five year deal?

      No thanks. 3 years. Maybe. His injury proneness won’t go over well on the turf.

      • I honestly don’t think there’s a chance in hell that we are gonna sign either Hamilton or Greinke. Those guys have choices and I doubt they will choose us. Given the general air of defeat we appear to be wearing right now–whether it’s deserved or not–I suspect our better new players will come by trade rather than free agency.

        • Pretty much my thoughts also. 3 years is the max I’d go on Hamilton though. If a team offered more guaranteed years, I’d have to question their mental acuity.

          • Bautista Hamilton Encarnacion would be the best 3-4-5 combo in the game. With that kind of protection their production would be insane. plus with Encarnacions versatility you have the option to DH Hamilton more.

          • The Rangers have the option to DH Hamilton too. It didn’t save him from injury.

            His approach at the plate is horrendous too, and it caught up with him starting in June (note his K% skyrocketed and his wRC+ dipped a lot).

    • I don’t think Andrus is a big improvement over Escobar. He’s better, but not Escobar + JPA + an arm better.

      • Escobar is out of favour here in Canada, plus the Rangers need a catcher and their system is dry. If you have the opportunity for a 2 time all star/ runner up in rookie of the year voting short stop you have to jump on it.

        • Andrus is a slightly below average offensive player and a great glove. Yunel has been inconsistent, but at least has the potential to be above average with the bat and is already there with the glove (though not quite as good as Andrus).

          Given the other holes on the team, it doesn’t make sense to trade two of our best trade assets (every day players, premium position, cost controlled) for little more than a marginal upgrade that’s not even in an area of need.

          Put another way, AA has limited resources (cash, minor and major league players) to fill holes in the roster. Allocating major resources to an upgrade at shortstop will almost certainly mean other, more glaring holes go unfilled.

    • Another way to look at it is if Rogers is at least equal to Frasor or Lyon then what’s wrong with them getting a player who is cheaper and under control for longer? You’re getting the same performance for less money. How is that bad in any way? I will admit that if it’s strictly out of necessity then it might not bode well for the future, but even if it is, at least he was able to keep the status quo without taking a step back in the talent department. That’s a small victory all by itself.

      Just forget about the money for this year. If you look at the Jays payroll going forward into 2014 and 2015, the bulk of it is fairly constant compared to 2013′s payroll. Sure there will be some arbitration raises along the way but the majority of those shouldn’t amount to more than a total of a few million dollars. The larger contracts for guys like Jose, EE, Morrow and Romero are all going to be fairly close to what they are today. Imo that gives the Jays tremendous financial flexibility to build something very sustainable even if they add another $30-40 million this winter and bring their payroll up to $105-115 million dollar range.

    • Why would they take Escobar in a trade for Andrus? Having said that, I wouldn’t mind Andrus and Escobar up the middle next year for the Jays, with Hech waiting in the wings. One of them gets flipped for help if Hech shows he’s ready.

      • Escobar as an incumbent until Profar is ready or as insurance.

        • I guess maybe. But I don’t see the Jays jumping on that. As someone else mentioned he’s only a slight upgrade. And while fans may not like him, I doubt the org is as out of favour with Escobar as many think. Trading Escobar for Andrus doesn’t really solve a lot, and leaves them with fewer chips to address 2nd and LF. If Escobar would be involved in an Andrus trade there’d have to be something coming back the that would address LF or 2B, or the rotation.

  40. Tom Henke for coach!

    • Loved Henke. Especially when he was calling out Billy Koch for not striking out more batters when he had that insane HEATER goin for him back in the day. haha

  41. Let’s get Gomes (that would be Jonny, not Yan!) to split time with Lind at DH

    J. Gomes Career vs LH
    284 /.382 /.512 /.894

    Lind vCareer s RH
    .282 /.335 /.502 /.836

    Lind can also back up at 1B and Gomes can back up at OF (in a pinch, he’s not exactly a solid defender, but fine as a 5th OF).

    Hell of a lot better than the OTHER Gomes, right?!?!?

  42. Maicer Izturis would also be better than Aviles and he won’t cost much more than Aviles did.

  43. Can I make a crazy suggestion?

    There have been rumblings that the Mets may look to trade RA Dickey, and we’ve heard in the past that they might be open to trading Ike Davis.

    RA Dickey + Ike Davis = Travis d’Arnaud + _________?

  44. 1) should have kept scott downs
    2) should have let frasor walk permanently
    3) should have spent the $$ and got darvish


    1) let frasor walk
    2) goodbye lind. or platoon at very least.
    3) good bye KJ. need a 2B. trade esco if that helps
    4) trade JPA. he’s terrible.
    5) obtain LF, 2B for sure. 1B if it can be done
    6) obtain 2 starters
    7) yeah, we need a manager.

    you can keep rajai and colby and sierra (and gose eventually) but to have that flexibility to test if they can make it work you need 2 solid bats, obviously preferred for 2B and LF.

    same thing with the pitching lineup. You can use these bullpen pieces stacked like cordword and you can test out prospect arms and hope that arms like Alvarez/Perez/Villaneuva/Santos and even McGowan can give you value…but in order to do that we need 1 absolute great starter and 1 reasonably good starter to lock it down and allow that flexibility.

    4 pieces. time is of the essence. get on it. you made it tough on yourself. you had the chance to get darvish for pure $$ and give up nothing. last year’s lineup and this years lineup would have looked a far cry better and the 2012 year would absolutely not have been as much a write off had the purse strings not been so miserly tight. now you’ve got an even worse situation than last winter.

    you MUST bridge the gap between what’s on the field now and what potential there is in the prospects. you could had done that with $$ last year. what a wasted opportunity. now you have double the holes to fill and damn it, $$ is not likely to be enough now.

    • Not sure there is much for prospect arms mlb ready to replace those names you mentioned. Maybe a Jenkins? Plus Villaneuva is most likely as good as gone by all accounts and will start next season for someone else.
      Do agree on all 7 points though I wouldnt say JPA sucks. His bat has a lot of value at the catcher position. Having said that I hope he is packaged to bring in a starter.

  45. In case you though Fasshole had learnt to be prudent and keep his mouth shut that 5 minutes he was coaching here before turning his eyes yearningly towards the Sux. He has not. A source ‘close to John Farrell’ has named his preferred pitching coach even though interviews for same are still on-going.

  46. PS Should have been ‘In case you thought’…

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