I still can’t say for certain that this will become a regular feature around here for the early winter (looking like it, though, huh?), but again today, with all kinds of movement happening on the trade and free agent markets, and all kinds of decisions being made on players throughout the league who may wind up having some bearing on the Jays’ plans for the off-season, I think it will be a valuable exercise to comb through the latest from the astonishingly fantastic and comprehensive MLB Trade Rumors and add some Jays-related context to whatever is going on out there…

Non-MLBTR Links!

First up, just a couple of other tidbits I felt were best suited to slide into this post, but which hadn’t yet, or in some cases won’t, wind up on the pages of MLBTR:

Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun speaks to Jim Tracy, who has cruelly been listed among potential Jays managerial candidates. But the ex-Dodgers, Pirates and Rockies manager says that he hasn’t heard a thing from the club– and he was employed during the last search, so Alex hasn’t even talked to him. I think we can safely cross his name off the list, thankfully– though in Elliott’s revised fake odds at the bottom of the post, he has Tracy third most likely to get the gig, somehow, behind Manny Acta and Don Wakamatsu. He also gives us several names of guys employed with other clubs who the Jays have yet to contact– and, at this point, presumably won’t.

In a separate piece, Elliott checks in from Indian Wells, and ties a statement from Anthpolous– “If we think we don’t have a chance, we won’t make a phone call”– to the fact that the Jays did make calls or have meetings with the agents who represent Anibal Sanchez, Edwin Jackson and Francisco Liriano. If you read between the lines, it’s almost like the Jays don’t mind people thinking they have money– agents, players, fans, media trolls… it’s all good!

At FanGraphs, Dave Cameron looks at a name that ought to intrigue, in much the way that Scott Baker’s name does: Scott Feldman, who he calls “the poor man’s Brandon McCarthy.” To me, this is exactly the kind of guy who might see a club like the Jays as being his best opportunity– lots of potentially open rotation spots on a team that actually (sorry, trolls) has a shot at being pretty good. Factor in the cost and the fact that a guy like Feldman would allow you to do more elsewhere and… sure, I’d do it.


The Jays have signed 30-year-old right handed reliever Justin Germano to a minor league contract with an invite to spring training. He’s not a hard-thrower– averaged 86.1 on his fastball, per FanGraphs, over 69 innings in the Majors this year (yes, you read that right)– so the usual jokes don’t quite apply. Still, he’s a guy…

The price for Anibal Sanchez appears to be escalating, as we’re pointed to a Jon Heyman tweet in which he says that one team was told Sanchez would cost $90-million over six years, while another said it was $100-million over seven. That’s a pretty rich deal for a guy who looks a hell of a lot like a solid number three to these eyes, but good on him for aiming high in his one big free agent shot– that’s simply the cost of doing business these days, and considering all the national TV money to be distributed over the coming years, let alone all the huge regional TV deals being signed, it’s not like that’s a crippling deal for anyone. Welcome to the new fiscal environment.

The Mariners have reportedly reached out to catchers Russell Martin and Mike Napoli, as perhaps they’re not banking on Jesus Montero being a full-time backstop, or John Jaso being insanely fucking ridiculous at the plate again. Or maybe they just are banking on the fact that Miguel Olivo is shitty. Either way, wasn’t Jack Z just saying that he might trade some of the club’s up-and-coming pitching for offence? Hmmm…

Speaking of trading a catcher, we’re pointed to a Shi Davidi piece from yesterday, in which he noted that the Jays’ pickup of depth catcher Bobby Wilson seems to be an indication that the Jays may be inclined to trade JP Arencibia. Certainly they won’t carry all three next year, but Wilson and Mathis could theoretically– if wholly unspectacularly– hold down the fort for a little while until Travis d’Arnaud is ready next year. If the club tenders a contract to Wilson, it’s an even stronger sign that Arencibia may be getting shopped, Davidi figures.

An ESPN Los Angeles piece suggests some trade candidates among pitchers, including Derek Holland, Gavin Floyd, and Trevor Bauer– two of whom definitely intrigue, and who we haven’t heard a whole lot about (at least, until recently, in Bauer’s case). Beyond the Boxscore already worked out a deal that would send Holland our way! Just do that!

Kenny Ken Ken thinks that the Mets’ reported dangling of their Dickey (note: ha!) may just be a tactic to get the potential Cy Young winner to accept a team-friendly extension– and not a particularly good tactic, Rosenthal figures. Lots of Jays fans have been drooling over this possibility, especially with the Mets needing a catcher, but I don’t see how you give away oodles of years of cheap control on guys for one year of Dickey. Jon Niese, on the other hand…

I know the Jays don’t have pitching depth to spare, but honestly, one guy I’d move a Henderson Alvarez or JA Happ for in a second is Josh Willingham of the Twins. We’re told that industry folk don’t see Minnesota getting back much more than a fourth starter type for Willingham, because he just doesn’t provide any defensive value. I don’t think it would ever happen because of the dollars to Willingham and what it would cost to fill in the rotation hole created, but I’d definitely ask the pitching-desperate Twins about a deal like that, because I’m aiming to not have those guys in my rotation anyway.

Comments (90)

  1. Forgot about Baker. Would be a nice depth sign at the very least. Still like a trade for Dickie but only if AA could sign him to an extension. Willingham…interesting.

  2. Yes! Trade for the (willing)Hammer!!!

  3. I think the Jays match up well with the Mets.

    If they were to work out a hypothetical deal with the Mets for him, could it be contingent on signing him to an extension. Does this happen in baseball? Can it?

  4. The free agent value comes at the bottom, so I’d be very happy with spending any additional budget room on trades instead of a Sanchez or Swisher, and keep doing these smart Wilson/Izturis/Millwood types of pickups.

  5. Willingham should be easy to require as the twins would happily take Alvarez and a lower level prospect

    • Yup . Hate to move Alvarez, but if the Twins wanted him, you gotta do it.

      • That would very quickly solve almost all of our non pitching question marks. If they upgraded pitching I would almost stomach Adam Lind flailing at righties for another year.

      • Would prefer if it was Cecil or Happ that got moved, because I think Alvarez still has potential, but yeah…

  6. Don’t be surprised if adam lind is named manager of the blue jays. (burp, pass out)

  7. If you honestly want Dickey on this team, you should be repeatedly punched in the throat.. 3 good seasons out of 11, for a soon to be 38 year old.. Let’s all buy high shall we…idiots.

    • I ll take that as a “no” on Dickie.

    • yeah 3 good seasons… 2010, 2011 and 2012.

    • you actually should be punched in the throat for not wanting a cy young calibre pitcher on the team. he hasn’t shown a sign of slowing down since he became a knuckleballer, he has another 3-4 seasons left in the tank.

  8. Willingham would be good. Basically a white version EE in terms of similar contract, dollars, age, 2-3 WAR type who mashes but is limited defensively. Ol’ Willy could do limited OF while mainly serving as a DH. Twins pitching is so horrible right now they’d consider anything i imagine.

    As for Dickey, I dont see the point in dealing Abe Cibia for him on principle of the limited amount of young, controllable catchers available at the moment. I’d prefer a package around a minor league pitcher prospect instead. Especially considering Dickey only has the one year and guaranteed the Mets wont sign him long term. Interesting thing about Right Admiral Dickey is I compared his age in the next 4 years (39 to 42) to that of Wakefield during those years and Wakefield averaged about 2 WAR and a pretty decent win loss record with a rather gross ERA. Makes me think Dickey would be a decent veteran arm to add if he could be acquired sensibly and then signed for 2-3 years by Rogers. I kind of see him as a value buy similar to a Kuroda based on age but ability to maintain a strong ERA and WHIP

  9. I have no issue giving up 4 years of JPA and 6 years of Sierra for a potential short-term ace like Dickey.

    JPA has value. Sierra is a decent 2nd or 3rd piece in a trade. But we’re talking about below average to average regulars at best. Their best asset is that they are cheap.

    These are exactly the type of guys AA has had no issue moving in the past (i.e. Wallace, Stewart and arguably Snider was devoid of impact probability by the time he was dealt).

    I see something like this as far more palatable than the alternatives of adding one or likely two top prospects to get someone like Niese or give Anibal Sanchez his Christmas wish.

    JPA merely starts the conversation for Niese or Holland. He pretty much gets you Dickey almost by himself, imo.

    • Holy shit you are the stupidest person on this blog

    • -1 Way too much dude.

      • I’ve never seen a -1 before. too complikated for me. I need a drink.

      • What are the alternatives?

        Giving $40 – $50 mil to Jackson.

        Giving maybe $75 million to Sanchez.

        Adding probably 2 bluechippers to JPA to get Niese or Holland.

        None of those sound particularly appealing and we know the chances of Rogers approving large expenditures are slim.

        There’s a reason JPA is the first guy mentioned in trade scenarios for pitching. He isn’t likely to get much better, he’s worth something but not a whole lot by himself and he doesn’t look like he’ll ever be better than average for his position.

        It’s not hard to find JPA on the trade/free agent market.

        If available, Dickey is probably projected to be better in 2013 than any starter the Jays could conceivaly acquire other than Greinke.

        • Awfully early to say “he doesn’t look like he’ll ever be better than average for his position.” We can’t make a habit of giving guys 2 years and then giving up on them. This makes us everyone else’s farm team.

          • Look at his pedigree, age and his atrocious K/BB last year.

            JPA isn’t 22. He’s at an age where you would have expected some improvements last year if they were ever going to come as a hitter.

            He did improve enough to become an averagish defensive catcher so that’s something.

          • @Jays2010 No, JPA is all of 26. Not yet in his prime and not even 2 years into his MLB career but you’re going to trade him for a 38 year old knuckleballer who’s had exactly one good year in his entire career and that was last year. This is the root of earlier comments.

          • He’s had 3 good years and he costs a mere $5 mil next year. After Greinke, he’s the only other guy who has a realistic shot at being an ace next year that we know to be available.

  10. None of the pitchers on the free agent market really excite me this year, even greinke. Sanchez and Jackson are decent mid rotation starters and the jays should consider them as such. However, if they are planning to slot in one of those 2 in the first few spots in the rotation, its going to be a disappointing offseason. Same thing for izturis. Great utility guy. Should not be starting if the jays plan on competing next year.

  11. Trade happ for Willingham and sign baker. Then take the night off for drinks, because ya earned it! Good day all around!

  12. We should only acquire players whose names are genital slang. Dickey, Johnson, anyone named Willy or Wang, etc. Then hire Bobby Cox to manage.

  13. Willingham would be a great pickup if the trade price was low enough. I still think Alvarez is young enough that it would be a shame to give up – but Willingham at $7M for 2 more years would be a great value for the Jays as a DH.

  14. Regarding Willingham, Why not just sign napoli instead for 1b/dh/c? You dont have to give up anything. Oh, I forgot, rogers are cheap fucks and AA is a pussy when it comes to asking for more money.

    • let’s spend more money than we need to just to prove we can!!!!

      • Its not spending more money than we need. Jays have a lot of holes and need another bat or 2. Im saying production wise, willingham and naploli are very similiar players. napoli would fit on this team just as well as willingham.

        • Yeah… that’s not what you said. You said “sign Napoli INSTEAD” and you said that the Jays wouldn’t do that because they were cheap. Thus implying that they would do it if they WEREN’T Cheap.

          • Yeah, absolutely. To which you countered, napoli is unnecessary spending. If the jays were serious about contending next year, napoli should be an option but unfortunately rogers wont give them enough $. If rogers would be generous to let the jays spend $30-40M this offseason, then AA would have enough resources to build a very competitive club and not have to worry about saving $500000 from davis’s contact and adding it to izturis’s deal.

    • Anything else you can tell us about what goes on in the boardroom’s, since you are so in the know.

      • Its pretty evident from just watching this team operate the past few winters, dont ya think?? Unless were being lied to and beeston is completely full of shit (possible) and the money is not there. In that case, rogers are cheap fucks and AA has nothing to do with it.

    • I thought Napoli want to be the starting catcher wherever he went? Don’t see that happening here unless they traded Arencibia – which I’m not necessarily against.

      Willingham has been more durable and isn’t going to ask for 4+ years on a contract.

      • I dont think naploli would mind which position he plays as long as he plays everyday, but what do I know.

  15. Either way, time for AA to decide on one of the back end guys – Alvarez or Happ – and then deal them. Alvarez is probably more attractive for the Twins because of his age and they wont contend anytime soon. I dont see the sense in keeping both guys and then slotting one (Happ moreso) into the bullpen. Already have Cecil in the pen for that role.

    I think Alvarez will turn out just fine and be a good pitcher, but I think Willingham gives the Jays that one extra big bat/OBP guy right now and Happ is probably a solid enough back end guy considering he’s in his prime still

  16. I wouldn’t deal Alvarez for Willingham. I would deal Alvarez plus more for Alex Gordon, though.

    • Now there’s an idea!

      • It’s not just an idea, it would be the Jays long-term answer at LF and leadoff. Rumours have KC willing to willing to listen on him for SP help although who know’s if that is true or not.

        • It would have to be better than Alvarez, though. Royals will want Morrow, and they would be right to ask for that. Most people don’t realize that Gordon is one of the most valuable players in baseball. Highly underrated.

  17. Lawrie for David Wright?
    Who says no?

  18. JPA + for Dickey does feel like an overpay, not for performance but duration.

    Is it completely crazy to think a larger package could be built around JPA, Marisnick, one of the Lansing three and another pitcher, like Happ, to nab both Niese and Dickey?

    Maybe it’s crazy – but it helps the rotation in the near and medium term. Thoughts?

    • Probable that the Mets don’t want to move both. they have to keep someone around don’t they?

    • If you switched Happ for Alvarez that’s probably about what the cost would be for both of them.

      And that’s quite a bit. Although I don’t value Niese the way others do on this board. Something about a lefty hovering around 90 mph on his fastball makes me think he wouldn’t be much better than Brett Cecil pitching in TO. But what do I know?

      • the reason Cecil doesn’t perform well in Toronto isn’t his left 88mph fastball, it’s that he’s not very good

  19. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/11/09/blue_jays_not_ruling_out_6_year_deals/
    Awesome content here.
    Me thinks that if AA says straight up that he could afford sanchez then maybe Greinke is also in play

  20. A “poor man’s Brandon McCarthy” sounds like it would fit right in on this team, they already have the “poor man’s Cole Hamels” (aka Brett Cecil).

  21. Ha Stoeten! Happ for Willingham made my day! Music to my ears. Sorry just don’t believe in Happ at all whichbis probably why he’d end up beingva Cy Young candidate after we moved him.

    • Night manimal no way AA trades the Happster for Willingham . Not with guys like Swisher on market. I still think AA goes back to angels and somehow gets Kendry Morales for a good prospect and a good reliever like Oliver

  22. what are the alternatives? why not just offer kiroda a 2 year/10 mil deal and give up the 2nd rd pick. big deal. show me a pitcher who’s pitched better at that price. the guy’s been fucking consistent his whole career and fuck the yankees while you’re at it. no need to give up any prospects or offer insane money. another shot barkeep

    • It would probably take closer to 2 years $30 mil to get Kuroda to come to TO.

      Which I’d be all for, but I doubt AA would blow the majority of his budget on it.

  23. Lets not get carried away and lose sight of our objectives. We need more depth on the D.L.

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