“Yeah,” responded Matt Sosnick, agent for Josh Johnson, bluntly, when asked off the top of a thoughtful, interesting segment on today’s Jeff Blair Show if the reported mega-deal deal is pretty much done. Not only that, “I think he’s excited,” Sosnick added, almost convincingly.

But that was far from the money quote from the interview, as he later dropped this nugget on us:

“I feel like there has to be another piece to this trade. I’ve got to imagine that the players that Alex acquired have to be in play– it’s a lot of money he took on in salary in one shot. And there are so many teams that are interested in Josh Johnson that if the Yankees or Texas or some of these teams looking for a frontline starter wanted to give up a tonne, it would seem like it would be against the way that Alex normally does business to not listen and make a trade if he could acquire a bunch of top prospects for one of the players in this deal.”

It’s possible, I guess, but I’m not sure how that makes a whole lot of sense, from the Jays’ perspective– largely because I’d argue that this deal fundamentally changes the way that Anthopoulos does business. As he’s said all along, he wanted to stockpile prospects, he knew they couldn’t all end up on his 25-man roster at once, he wanted to make big moves on the trade market, and, as far as he was being assured, the money was going to be there to spend the way that the club appears they’re going to do– and shockingly, perhaps even to him, yesterday Rogers actually put up.

I’ve said many times: the moves Anthopoulos made during his first few years on the job were not necessarily indicative of some kind of overarching philosophy he was always going to operate under. Even if he hadn’t said as much, it just wouldn’t make sense.

Importantly, it should be noted that, despite this flourish of analysis from Sosnick– and that’s really how it came off to my ears, not as any kind of angling– his client isn’t hoping like hell to get moved again, or anything. In fact, he’s happy with what happened.

“These days, the first thing that happens is the financial guy calls to tell him the differences between the tax rates in Florida and Toronto,” Sosnick explained, “but in real life, I think he’s excited to get out of Florida, and to get a fresh start.”

Not only that, “this is Alex going all-in, and I think this is going to be his legacy, one way or the other,” he says of the deal. And right now, there’s optimism. ”I think a lot of people in that trade really believe that Toronto has a chance to win the American League this year now,” he explains. While on the other hand, “Miami is just a destroyed franchise. I think guys are just getting out as quick as they can.”

Better even, perhaps, Sosnick flatly dismisses the notion that taxes are an issue for his client, and says he’s certainly open to signing an extension, “if there’s a fair sharing of the risk,” and “as long as the player is happy.”

That works for me. Talent like his clients’ doesn’t come along very often– especially, it seems, not in this organization. As was my mantra on today’s podcast and in yesterday’s post, there’s no sense in Rogers half-assing it here. You’ve committed enough to get you plenty close– finish the job.

Comments (215)

  1. I hope they don’t flip him, but if they DO, how about Johnson and JPA for Derek Holland, David Murphy. Cheaper, more control, and a decent LF option as well…..?

    • Nope that’s stupidity he sucks

    • If they did flip for that, I’d be pissed. Luckily AA will not make that trade.

    • I’m with you there. If we flip him to the Rangers I’d only do it for Holland in return. It makes perfect sense. Younger, cheaper, longer control, and he has top-of-the-rotation potential. Holland is also signed through 2016 with club options for 2017 and 2018.

      In 2013 he’s only making 3.2mm, then 5.4mm, 7.4mm, 10mm through 2014-2016. That financial flexibility could allow us to go out and try for Annibal Sanchez.

      So you could have either




      • Wow.

        So you could have either




        Is that up even for debate? AA, if you see this, please make it happen. If Romero can get his form and mechanics back in check, that is one scary looking 5 man pitching rotation. Damn that just made me so excited. 2013 playoffs, or bust.

  2. Wouldn’t that be hilarious if AA just fucking flipped all that salary for cost controlled relievers and utility infielders.

  3. No sleep til April. Only break dancing.

  4. I don;t think the moves are done for this offseason yet. We obviously have a surplus of catchers, at the very least one of them has to be moved.

  5. So in listening to the interview I got the impression that Josh Johnsons dream job is with the Yankees or the Rangers.

    • With only one year left on his deal, Johnson is a lame duck and therefore must be traded.

      • Why the fuck would they trade him before the trade deadline? Don’t be stupid. He will be more of a commodity then if healthy and producing, and if not, a reasonable extension can be worked out.

    • You really heard that? I think Sosnick seemed like an intelligent guy making decent analysis, nothing more.

  6. I called this as soon as I saw the trade. They will package Buerhle and another Jay for another pitcher. JUST YOU WATCH

    • no they wont move Buehrle, they have control of him, they may deal Johnson for a top Lf but thats all i believe they will do.

      • the kind of control they have in buerhle is not the sort of control you want. his contract is horrible and it would not surprise me if they sent buehrle and cash to another team for minimal return.

        • totally,
          fuck pitching depth.
          we have mcgowan

        • Look at Buelre’s WAR value the last 10 years. He’s good and reliable, something the Jays would have killed for the last 2-3 years. He’s not an ace, but very few are. Pitching is expensive.

        • If you think Buehrle’s contract is horrible just imagine the kind of contracts it would take for the Jays to land someone similar. I would rather have Buehrle than Edwin Jackson or Ryan Dempster at similar prices.

          • Edwin Jackson is a better pitcher than Buerhle at this point in time and going into the future, Jackson is 5 years younger, strikes out more guys and his FA contract would probably be of similiar or lesser cost compared to what’s left on Buerhle’s contract, Toronto was forced to take Buerhle in this deal, plain and simple

  7. perhaps Johnson and JPA for Ogando and Kinsler

  8. Sosnick saying:

    “if there’s a fair sharing of the risk,” and “as long as the player is happy.”

    Is awesome to hear, considering Johnson’s prior injury history. Anthopoulos has a lot of history with creative contracts for players, so maybe there’s a really beneficial and safe way for this to go beyond 2013. Nice.

  9. Tax is not a big deal. In Florida, they have no state tax, but the Federal top bracket still pays 35%. Living in Toronto, the top bracket is roughly 40%. But in Canada, you don’t pay 40% on everything, as it is proportional.

    • You will pay more income tax living in New York City, if you are making millions and in the top bracket, than you would in Toronto.

    • People often get confused. For income taxes, the difference from the US to Canada is really marginal in terms of rates. The differences are in brackets. In Canada you are in the top bracket at a much lower income than in the US, but once you are in the top bracket in the US, you are really paying pretty much a same rate.

      • if this is all true, then the Jays need to do a better job of educating everyone. Buster Olney has been all over this issue (wrongly) and it is a dagerous topic to have players and FA’s misunderstanding.

      • There are a lot more write offs an loopholes in the States, so yes in Canada you pay a lot more in taxes.

        Interest on mortgage is a write off in the States for one…

        • Well seeing how MLB players probably don’t take out a mortgage, it is not an issue.

          There is not really more loopholes though in the States. Both countries have similar deductions allowed for personal employment income. For property, business, capital gains, or other income, there is more deductions (or “loopholes”) allowed in the States, but employment income is pretty similar.

          If you were to make investments, then your investment income will be taxed lower in the States with more loopholes. But seeing how MLB players probably would not be investing in Canada or in Canadian companies, and would not be a full-time or deemed resident, it would not be a factor.

          If you are in the middle class, or just not even earning $500,000 to be put in the top bracket in the States, you are paying more income tax in Canada than the States. But once you are making millions, and in the top bracket, you nearly pay the same rates, pending on the State and Province. In some States, the top bracket is actually higher than Ontario (like New York).

          Taxes for a MLB player should not be a large difference at all coming from the States to Canada. Even outside of income taxes, you will end up paying more in sales tax, but will also pay less in property taxes.

        • the loopholes are overstated unless you are mitt romney..most deductions are phased out at high income levels..the REAL loophole is passive (investment income) income / capital gains.. right now you only pay 15 percent on long term capital gains which means those who make a large percentage of their income from stocks/bonds/etc (the big players) pay little in total marginal tax

    • Apparently, tomorrow Eric Seidler (He’s a CPA) will have an article on Fangraphs that will address the tax myths regarding the move from Florida to Canada.

      • What I’m not sure about is that tax treaty’s between Canada and the US. I know as a US citizen, Josh Johnson will have to pay income tax in the US, no matter where he earns it. If he lived in Canada full time, then the treaty’s would allow him to just pay Canadian tax, and fill out a US tax form but not have to pay tax.

        But since he will probably live mostly in the US, I’m not sure what the treaty’s say. He will probably pay income tax in Canada at Canada’s rate, while the CRA would just transfer a portion to the USA, however much he is required to pay.

        But for sure he wont be paying more than 40% in Toronto, and he was paying at least 35% in Florida.

        • If i recall correctly from some tax courses a long time ago. You end up paying whatever is higher if you live in two countries for a roughly equal proportion of the year…

        • He will need to pay taxes on all income earned in Canada assuming he is in Canada for less then 182 days. If he is in Canada longer then he owes on his world wide income (ie: Endorsements, appearance fees, autographs etc.)

          • But he also has to pay US income tax on world wide income, as in the States it is based on citizenship.

            Not sure exactly what the treaty between Canada and the USA divides up the income tax.

        • Because he’s paying taxes in the US he will receive Foreign Tax Credits that he can apply against his Canadian income taxes owing. There’s also the residency issue. The basic residency factor is time spent in Canada. If you are in the country for >179 days you are automatically a resident. Because the Jays play so many games in the US there’s a possibility that he doesn’t end up being in the country for enough days to qualify as a resident. The other criteria are pretty easy to get around as well.

          • Realistically, with the Jays playing the first month in Florida and then 50% of their 180-day schedule in the U.S., he’ll be lucky to hit 100 days in Canada. Unless he decides to live here at all in the off-season.

          • It is 182 days, and he wont exceed it. The other criteria to be considered a full-time resident is all common law and based on what is considered to be significant ties. He wont have significant ties, so he wont be paying income tax on his world wide income, but would still be paying it on his salary.

            I thought it was the other way around though. He pays income tax through withholding tax in Canada, then he will get tax credits in the States to pay avoid paying tax there, then the CRA transfers some over to the States….

          • The 180 day rule does not apply here – the tax treaty that applies to US citizens working in Canada is income over $10,000 earned in Canada is taxable in Canada under the treaty.

            In the case of Baseball players it gets much more complicated because of the number of nationalities involved and in this case there maybe more than just US citizens.

        • What the tax treaties do in a nutshell is give you credit for the taxes that you’ve already paid. Not having done taxes for a Major Leaguer before I’m not sure how the deductions work as half the season is in the US, so I’m not sure if you pay US or Can withholdings on that.

          However if you assume that you pay Canadian Tax on every dollar you make regardless of if you play in Canada or the US, the tax treaty would give you credit in the US for all the taxes you paid in Canada. So if you paid $500K in Canadian income tax, and your US tax bill was $450K, you wouldn’t have to pay US tax at all.

          Again this is really simplified and dumbed down but it gives a quick glimpse of how the confusion of inter-country tax works.

          • I believe that is how it works too. And I’m assuming the tax credits are 100% on foreign taxes paid, because sometimes I know they aren’t, but I have never read the US-Canada tax treaty.

        • Players pay income tax in the jurisdiction where they earn the income. So Jays players pay Canadian tax rates for home games, and US/State/City (some cities have their own income taxes) for income earned in road games. It is very complex.

      • The Seidler makes an appearance…

  10. If they’re flipping anyone, it’s Buerhle.

    • Agreed. They’ll try and resign Johnson because he is a rare commodity. Buerhle could very well be moved for less expensive options.

      • They will wait and see how he is performing and the team is performing approaching trade deadline. If they don’t have a reasonable shot at playoffs, they package him to a contender to recoup prospects.

        If he is hurt, they work out a reasonable extension.

        • I think you’ve nailed it there. I don’t see moving either one of the newly acquired pitchers before the season starts. AA has been “itching for pitching” and we had 2 rotation holes to fill. Now that they are filled and we have a legit rotation why make more holes before the season even starts. Trade from an area of surplus (in this case catchers and possibly RP) to fill the last remaining holes in the lineup, don;t take a step backwards now!

      • I get that he’s got more controllable years, but they Jays would be getting getting 200 innings a year out of a pretty effective lefty. Maybe that’s what a potential trade partner likes. If it is they’d better be paying through the nose for him. What does Arizoma want for Upton again?

    • Agreed. My thoughts are that once the FA pitching market sorts itself out and many teams are left without Greinke, Sanchez, and Jackson, there could be a taker for Buehrle’s solid, if unspectacular, services. No time to ponder what that trade could look like, but that’s how I see it playing out. Maybe packaged in a deal with JPA. Who knows?

    • I would be cool with flipping Buerhle. But who is going to take on his contract?

      Much like the Dodgers-Red Sox trade, this deal was likely an all or nothing proposal. AA had to take Buerhle as a means of getting Reyes, Johnson and Bonafacio. Buck was probably another must take throw in guy (and this is where the Jays are likely allocating the $4M salary relief provision).

      Johnson would net a good return, but its not like the Jays emptied the farm system here. I would rather see the Jays keep Johnson and shop Buerhle, but there won’t be very many takers.

      As for Johnson’s agent, whatever opinions he shared with Jeff Blair regarding AA’s intentions could very well be nothing more than wishful thinking.

  11. Is it entirely impossible that it’s not Johnson but Reyes that could get flipped?

    Any talk surrounding Justin Upton seems to start with a SS, and I could see Arizona being much more attracted to a package featuring an all-star shortstop.

    Either way, I agree that it seems like another trade could be in the pipeline.

    • But with the Jays trading both Yunel and Hech, if they flip Reyes then they really downgrade at the SS position.

      Unless they’re looking to deal for frickin’ Elvis Andrus or Profar or something crazy, somehow. Doubt that will happen.

      • Also, Arizona is not in a position to take back big contracts. reyes wont be going there unless they jays send them cash.

        why would the jays send reyes AND cash for upton? i wouldnt.

    • Maybe if we hadn’t traded both Escobar and Hech I could see this happening. Moving Reyes to fill the hole at LF just leaves a bigger hole at SS.

    • The Jays will not move Reyes , he will be here at least for the 6 years left owing . He is a top leadoff hitter and make things happen so i doubt Reyes will get moved.

  12. Looking at this from a business perspective, I think this either shows that Rogers trusts AA and are willing to spend the extra cash asked for, or they are gambling and giving him the rope to hang himself. I think this trade is definitely a make or break deal for AA as the GM.

    In light of the recent comments from Rogers management about the audience you want to attract, ie ‘fashionable’ I think that Rogers can be extremely pleased about the media attention gathered and the future audience this promises.

    • They trust him because he stuck to his plan.

      3 years to build a system (added Lawrie/D’Arnaud/Drabek/Nicolino/Sanchez/Syndergaard/Stroman/Gose/McGuire/Smoral/Norris, Hechavarria, Marsinik) not to mention all the international free agents they have signed so they have trade currency.

      Now they have a pipeline to the majors that they were able to take on payroll to fill in the cracks.

      His strategy is sound and it is the ONLY way to build a sustainable franchise, if you understand the big picture, so don’t stress about the little (Lincoln,Delabar, Rogers, Santos)

      • I would like to add a few more names still in the pipeline; Sierra, Hutchinson, McDade, Norris, Osuna, DJ Davis, Cooper, Arencibia…so even losing 3 top draft prospects by my count leaves a good 12 or 13 top prospects in the minor league system….let’s not forget the Jays are probably the fastest team ovberall in all of MLB, think about it Reyes, Davis, Bonifacio, Izturis, Gose, Lawrie and Encarnacion going to try other team’s pithcers and cathcers nuts, if JoeyBats hasn’t lost his swing, he’s going to clobber a whach of home runs this year

  13. I want Adam Lind outta here, package him for a legit 1st baseman and better relievers.

    • What do you expect would have to be in that package? You can’t mention Adam Lind without the other pieces if you’re looking for a legit 1B in return, because it’s the other pieces that would make or break the trade. That’s like referring to last night’s blockbuster as the Emilio Bonifacio trade!

    • I’m afraid we’re stuck with Lind for one more year at least. The best we can hope for at this point is to acquire a right handed bat to platoon with.

      • Rajai Davis or Emilio Bonifacio?

        I’m serious. Both of them are better career hitters vs. lefties, both of them are better then Adam Lind vs. lefties. Just have whichever one is better defensively man the outfield and have the other DH against lefties.

        • Neither Davis nor Bonifacio should ever DH. I don’t care who is pitching.

          • Why not? They hit lefties just fine and it’s not like having them DH creates a defensive hole somewhere (since they’re both average at best in the field).


  14. what a sensationalist headline! lemme guess, you don’t write the headlines…

  15. Well anything could happen, as we witnessed last night.

  16. It’s in Johnson’s best interest to get an extension done before the season starts. The guy is going to get paid, but for somebody with checkered medicals like him, he’s probably not going to want to roll the dice and wait to hit the open market. One bad season or ill-timed injury and he’s Dan Haren. I suspect it’s no coincidence that Sosnick specifically identified the Yankees and Rangers. Those are two teams with deep pockets that wouldn’t think twice in locking down Johnson long-term today if the opportunity were presented to them.

  17. JPA and Johnson to rangers for Darvish, How funny would that be

  18. I like hearing from an agent who is sensible on all angles. Jays should really try to extend him. 3 years, 50M and a club option for $20M? Seems below market value, but that’s what you hope to achieve.

    • To get JJ signed up long term I think you have to guarantee atleast 4 years maybe 5 with a player option

  19. If we flip anyone, trade Johnson and JPA for a #1. Johnson will make almost 14 mill this year and has only made 30 starts 3 times in his career. His ERA should be in the 3′s and he’ll get you 10-15 wins, but pitchers with more reasonable salaries can do that too.

    • Johnson is a #1.
      And HE won’t get you wins. The team gets wins. The pitcher pitches. To suggest he can just carry a certain number of wins around with him to whichever team is wrong.

  20. There is an interesting article in Chisox blog about challenges that Mark Buehrle may face in Toronto due to his love for pit bulls.

  21. No need to extend Johnson before trade deadline. If he won’t sign or team is underperforming, you trade or sign and trade him to a contender.

    • Whats wrong with holding on to him til the end of the season, tender him 13.3 mill, and getting a draft pick when he signs elsewhere?

  22. I know this is just the terrified, abused Toronto fan in me speaking, but does anyone else see this as an indication that Johnson has no interest in re-upping here?

    Fuck it, I don’t even care. 2013 Baby!

    • I’d be very surprised if Johnson isn’t “one and done”. I think the Jays had to know this going into the deal. I don’t think the sides will reach some middle ground for some extension.

      If he pitches poorly and/or gets injured then the Jays probably don’t want to sign him.

      If he pitches well then Johnson definitely wants to reach free agency and get one last big deal from someone. He leaves and the Jays get a comp pick after they extend that qualifying offer.

  23. Buehrle for Garza (as long as he’s healthy)

  24. i think “sharing the risk” on JJ’s next contract is music to the Jays ears, and they should be negotiating today with hopes of announcing the new deal at the presser.

    He seems eager to get a fair deal signed, and I think he was referencing Yankees and Rangers interest in any of the new players, not just JJ

    extend him!!

  25. Johnson won’t be the one to get flipped, I hope. I really do hope they flip Buehrle though. Him plus JPA (plus Bonifacio or Izturis?) could potentially land you a Jon Niese or someone of that caliber. I really hope AA does this because I’m not excited about the amount of money Buehrle is owed.

  26. This is turning out like the back and forth cinematography of a Tarantino movie. Wild, unpredictable, exciting, and kinda weird.

    Bring on what you got cooking AA.

  27. if we flip anyone Rance Mullnicks is right get a legit NUMBER ONE starter and a solid prospect. Were not dealing JJ if thats not it. I think as soon as this trade goes down AA will be looking for an extension with Johnson and is going to find some way to entice buerhle and reyes. I think Reyes stays, Buerhle on the other hand i have a feeling will be gone, but if he stays, i really think we have the best Starters in the AL East. Johnson, Romero, Morrow, Buerhle, Drabek/Cecil/Hutchison , all but Cecil did well last year, even for the injuries, however severe. If not, re-signing Carlos V would be a very viable option. Very happy AA finally convinced Rogers for the money, we have a good thing going on right now, everyone in the leagues talking about this. Now all we need is a solid Middle Reliever and were good to go. Alternate Bonifacio and Davis in left field, Constant speed. Lookin good.

    • what are you smoking? best starters in the East? I think Matt Moore, David Price, James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson might have something to say about that… (not to mention CC, Pineda, Kuroda, Petite)

      • kuroda is a free agent, pineda didn’t pitch last year and pettite is 100….
        i’ll give you tampa but thats it. I would not trade the jays 25 man roster for tampas

      • Kman you’ve been driving me crazy since yesterday. Trolling disguised as logic. CC, ok – but Pineda is coming off a serious injury. Kuroda and Petite aren’t even under contract to the Yanks.

    • Reyes doesn’t have to be enticed, he’s locked up for 5 – 6 years.

      • Well not everyone wants to come play baseball in Canada, just hoping hes not a primadonna

        • I bet he’ll get along really well with the Latin contingent on the Jays roster. Baustista, Edwin and Reyes are going to have a big summer.

  28. Forgot to mention I think Manny Acta would be a great fit for this organization.

  29. Maybe JPA could be flipped for Alejandro De Aza or Brett Gardner. I’d love to see either of those moves, especially if there isn’t much money left to go around.

  30. I dont think any of the pitchers get flipped…i think Bonafacio does…..JPA too

    • I think you might be right. It would be fucking crazy stupid to flip Johnson, as he won’t net the kind of return his talent level deserves. And no one in their right mind is going to take on Buerhle’s contract (well, maybe the Dodgers).

      Bonafacio is sort of a redundant player at the moment. A nice super-sub player mind you. Speed? Yes, but we’ve got Davis, Reyes, and Gose in AAA. Versatility? Yes, but we’ve got Izturis. Switch-hitter? Yes, Izturis (again) and Reyes.

      I wouldn’t mind a LH power bat in LF in lieu of a Bonafacio and Davis platoon. Its still early and it could very well be that Bonafacio gets shipped somewhere which allows the Jays to acquire a Seth Smith type of player.

  31. The headline quotes make the article a bit of a reach, I think I would of focused on the later comments, saying he would re-sign possibly and that the tax rates wouldn’t matter, in reality I never understood that issue. Say a guy gets paid 150 mill, and pays 10 mill in taxes in Canada, well just the pay the guy an extra 10 million…what’s the big deal? If the Jays are relevant & competitive Rogers will make that back and more solely off of advertising. I think the agent is saying, AA usually does flip players, no one one should be flipped here. Jays need these guys.

    PS… Lind could be dealt, I could see JP maybe moving to first..maybe a reach, just saying….going to be too much of a clog at catcher.

  32. These posts about flipping players are hilarious. It’s almost as if we can’t handle the success. Can’t we just bask in the sunshine of this trade for a while?

  33. The rumours that Ozzy Guillen or however you spell it, are jokes. That guy has talked so much shit about Toronto that if he became manager it would be very disapointing. But…. It won’t happen and it’s a good day to be a jays fan. In AA we trust, again.

  34. Jeff Blair was on the radio with Brady and Lang at 8:50 a.m. this morning (just before his show) and said that he didn’t think the Jays would extend or re-sign Johnson and that Johnson would leave at the end of the season. I hope he’s wrong and I don’t get why he is saying that. He suggested the Jays were making the push for this year and were ok if Johnson left. That makes no sense to me at all since the only way this trade makes sense is if the prospects the Jays gave up result in Johnson extension – otherwise it made no sense to give up Nicolino, Hechevaria and Marisnick.

  35. After listening to his agent’s interview, this guy isn’t Scott Boras. An extension seems very possible.

    As has been said before, the agent was implying that SOMEONE from the trade could be flipped, not necessarily Johnson.

    And I would guess the most likely of the 3 key members would be Buehrle.

    • previous poster is right, Toronto, the team and its fans don’t know how to win. when anything good happens, there immediately must be a negative shoe to fall, or Yankees swoop in and steal our players. Gimme a break. Enjoy it. Theres no way Rogers takes n this commitment without being all in, regardless of what parts get moved.

      You really think his focus is on restocking the system after making this hail mary pass that will define his legacy?

      All in is all in. No table stakes.

      • Moving Buehrle or anyone from the trade doesn’t have to represent taking a step back in any way.

        It’s naive to think AA considers the guys he just acquired to be untouchable.

        We know he has long had an infatuation with Reyes. And Johnson fills the need of a #1 starter.

        But b/w Buehrle, Bonifacio/Davis and probably JPA I think there is another shoe to drop.

      • I’m guessing you weren’t alive between ’85 and ’94.

  36. I’m also confused by Sosnick. Why would the Jays trade prospects for Johnson, just to trade him for.. prospects.

    Does not compute.

    • right?

      fuck its been prospects for so long, now that we have all stars and an ace everyone’s confused and thinks we should flip them for prospects.
      Johnson wants to stay and dominate for a year? let him, why the fuck should we over-think it so much.

    • unless the prospects you get back for him are perceived by your staff to be better than the ones you sent away. the net result: trade prospects for better prospects and get reyes, bonafacio for cash considerations.

      • This is true. Still though, it makes little sense. Why a team, a team that sooo badly needs pitching, would trade Johnson for prospects escapes me.

        • i bet if we packaged up johnson, reyes, bonaficio and a catcher we could probably get a single a center fielder, some low level arms with high ceilings and a short stop or two

  37. In my opinion, Reyes was the centre piece of this deal with both eyes focused on filling the holes on their rotation… Reyes is one of the best SS in baseball and its gonna be exciting to watch him play every night.

  38. -buerhle to the royals for alex gordon (missouri boy goes home – jays fill hole in LF). jays probably have to throw in some cash or another smaller piece.


    -JPA + rasmus (or sierra or whatever) for RA dickey

    • or keep Buerhle, sit back, learn what 200 innings looks like

      • man. who cares about 200 innings. with this super pen we have assembled..we dont need some old dude to go out and put up 200 crappy innings at a kings ransom.

        • You need your starters to put up a solid number of innings so your max effort 1 or 2 inning relievers don’t get burned out by pitching every day.

        • Every complete game a starter throws gives the bullpen an extra day off.

    • Nice, can you also see if it’s possible to get Bonds and Griffey and not even give up that much?

    • There is so much difference between JPA + Rasmus and JPA + Sierra. Rasmus is still quite valuable to the team, there are so many bats in the lineup now that all we need is his defense as long as he gets hot like he did last year for a few stretches.

      • I’m guessing that guys like Rasmus (when healthy) and maybe even Lind will benefit from having Reyes bat in the lineup. It’ll take a lot of pressure off Lawrie and JB and Edwin to produce. Cant wait til TDA gets here too.

  39. gotta go with the sam pollack rule here. whoever gets the best player in the trade wins the trade. when you get the 3 best players in the trade it’s a MONSTER WIN. If Rogers is ok with $120mm in payroll then so be it, it’s not our money and it would appear to these eyes that the Blue Jays generate at least that much value to the company annually. Talk of flipping them only makes sense if it will bring another BETTER player, which is unlikely given JJ is a top 10 starter by most measures over the past 5-6 years. Trading JPA for another starter on the other hand makes a shittonne of sense as I’m pretty sure if AA learned any lessons this past year its that you need at least 6 MLB quality starters to get through the season. I like Dickey but Holland would do.

  40. as someone who predicted JJ’s arrival on these pages last week (look it up) I’m going to further extend my neck and say that he’s going to be resigned before opening day

  41. Cash could be upwards of double the four million reported says Tim Brown.

  42. I wonder if RoyBoy is casting any glances our way?……..

  43. Here are the 2 guys AA will target:
    1) Choo from Indians (he will cost 2 decent prospects)
    2) Olt or Holland from Texas, (JPA/Davis and or something else minor)

  44. The Ninja is looking to trade Josh Johnson for the prospects Miami wants for their last good player…(who can’t wait to leave)

  45. Johnson was the first name mentioned on the deal. We didn’t hear about Reyes until a little while later. I very strongly doubt that AA would flip either of the pitchers. Not after what happened last year. He needs the strongest rotation he can find and he’s got a decent head-start now. Reyes I’m not so sure he’s staying although I kind of hope he does. He’s a showboater and a prima donna and can be a clubhouse cancer. But he’s a premier-division infielder. That having been said, I can see AA flipping him for Upton in a hartbeat. I doubt he’d even pause to think on that one.

    • LOL…if he flips Reyes, who plays SS now that bothYunela nd Hech are gone??

    • you just went and said some stuff that you know you dont really know…crap you think or heard or hear someone might have thought. (club house cancer…prima dona..come on..this is bs)

      arizona will never take on that salary of reyes.

      • Hey, I’m in favour of him staying because he’s a marquee player. But don’t try to tell me he’s Clubmate of the Year. This is the guy who refused an at-bat to protect his average on the last game of the year. And, yeah, I can see AA flipping him for another piece of the puzzle that he also likes a lot and who is more controllable. If he stays–good. If he’s flipped for Upton–also good. I’m not saying it’s gonna happen. Just saying that AA in my opinion is far more likely to flip Reyes than Johnson or Buehrle.

        • @isabella He refused? His manager TOOK him out of the game, a meaningless game at that with no playoff hopes on the line. YOu really need to stop stating this hear-say Gregg zaun crap as if it’s fact, you know nothing about Jose Reyes, you’ve never seen him in a locker room, end of discussion.

        • Leyland took Miguel Cabrera out of the last game of the year to ensure he would win the batting title and thus the triple crown. he also took Jackson out so that he would finish the year with .300 avg. Does that make those guys bad teammates as well? Create a winning atmosphere and watch as these so-called clubhouse problems evaporate.

    • Dave Cameron thought that Reyes’ contract was good value when the Marlins signed him last year. And now, we fucking stole him from Miami. Perennial 5 WAR short-stop with speed. The only concern I have with Reyes is health. Playing 80+ games on that awful turf could become an issue.

      Reyes for Upton is an intriguing proposal though. I just don’t know if the Diamondbacks would do that deal. And then we would have to find another SS. One would think that AA would have kept Hech if he foresaw a future flip involving Reyes. I really think AA loves Reyes and wants to keep him.

  46. Call this Debbie Downer if you want,

    but the sad part is do you think we would have got any of these types of guys without a trade.? They would never come, but they have to now and that’s the beauty of this.

    More positively, now a big name free agent who might nhave not wanted to play in Toronto before, very well might do so now.

    We are kinda like the new cool kid on the playground and I’m fukin stoked.

    • Grooobah, not to advocate school yard bullying, but this trade is like the smart, smooth talking kid (AA) going to the dumb ass greedy kid (Loria) and taking his brand new IPad for a box of marbles. Sure the smart kid is now stuck with paying for all of the IPad apps, but now he can convince his mommy and daddy that having an IPad is both just and necessary.

    • Probably not. But would anyone play for the Miami Heat before LeBron signed on? Add Bosh and Wade, and you had a fuckin’ line around the block chock-full of guys wanting to play with the Heat all of a sudden.
      The trick is…just win, baby. If you start winning and there’s a sniff of World Series around this club…trust me, some guys will not turn up their noses anymore at the thought of playing in TO. Some guys would – but then again, you can’t fight stupid.

      • I don’t think most players care that much about playing in Toronto. It might not be there first choice, but if the team looks like a winner how could Toronto be less desirable than say Tampa Bay.

      • Yeah Fastball and Balls, this is a step in the right kind direction and the Greek Got Em to the Tee Dot.

        He’s a smart networker and knows his trade well. I can’t wait for whatever else might transpire,!

  47. Well maybe it’s the nitrogen bubbles in my brain, or the high from last night’s realization that Rogers FINALLY realizes they own an MLB team, but I’m getting greedy now. Wouldn’t it be something if the Jays traded for Justin Upton and Felix Hernandez this off season? Completely empty the farm system I guess.

    • It would be a shame to not take advantage of the protected draft pick and sign an impact FA this off-season. With the trade, I don’t think we’re gonna be in this draft position again for quite some time.

      • Agreed Jonsey, It wont happen again for a long time. But with all the salary they’ve taken on, who in th FA list (besides Greinke who still wont come) is worth more than they’ve got now? If they play Johnson correctly, they can either extend him for a while longer or let him go, (and tender him) and get a draft pick next summer.

  48. Now is the time to break Roy home, boys. Opening day starter.

  49. To those who listen to Espn’s Fantasy Focus podcast I have one question……. is this trade speculation “Bona fide or Bonifacio?”

  50. No, no, no. They need to trade all the Miami players for Joe Maddon.

  51. I’m sure there will be more moves between now and April as there are still holes to fill… But can’t we all just enjoy the ride for a bit??

  52. I don’t think it really makes sense to flip either of the pitchers they received since they need them. However flipping Uncle Buck or BoneFace might make some sense, especially in Buck’s case.

  53. Napoli for Johnson!

  54. wasn’t it weird how it played out in the media? Jays say they’re itching for a trade and then Marlins say they’re open for business on anyone except Giancarlo?

    Wilner says they were discussing it at the winter meetings, but maybe they used the media to close the deal?

    • Buster Olney reported that AA told a friend that he was working on a pie in the sky trade, but wasn’t sure if he could pull it off.

      Looks like he did.

  55. I was thinking of a flip too, when I heard this deal, but not JJ, not yet. I was actually thinking Reyes.
    I know Texas hasbeen against moving profar or andrus but I wonder if Texas would part with Profar in some deal involving JPA and Reyes. Save the Jays $ and get us a cost controlled Future All-star.

  56. When will this trade be official? It bothers me going to wikipedia and seeing Reyes still listed under the Marlins

  57. I dont believe any of the recently acquired players will be flipped. Aside from Bonifacio perhaps. It makes no sense to do so right now for AA. He needed pitching and he got 2 to go along with Romero and Morrow. He traded away 2 shortstops so you know Reyes is staying, especially given what he provides in every facet of his game.
    AA is not done but I think now he will deal from a position of redundancy, ie catrcher and back up outfielder. JPA is the most likely gone from behind the plate because he offers the chance at a higher return. Catchers with 25-30 HR power are rare and he has shown progress in handling the pitching staffs. He also has only 2 years of service which is attractive to other GMs
    . I think Rajai Davis has played his last game as a Blue Jay. He has less value than Bonafcio because Davis can only play outfield. It is very unlikely that Davis can bring much back.
    Now the attention goes back to a manager. There will be no shortage of candidates who want the shot to fill out this teams line-up card daily.

  58. Here’s what AA still need to do.
    1. Add another starting pitcher (McCarthy, etc…)
    2. Add a bat for LF not an upton, but perhaps Melky.
    3. Solve the first base problem with Lind
    4. Convince Oliver to come back next year

    • I think we’re good for starting pitching… Johnson, Morrow, Romero, Buehrle, Happ… I don’t see much not to like in that rotation roster. As for Lind just Platoon him with Davis or Bonafacio… Lind is still good against righties and those guys hit lefties just fine. With Oliver… I think if what AA just did (i.e. make the playoffs a real possibility)doesn’t convince him to come back nothing will.

      So that just leaves LF and I’m satisfied going forward with internal options there.

  59. AA needs a move to take them over the top. They are all in for 2013 and they can’t waste this window giving that Bautista will only be a top 5 hitter for so long, Johnson might only play one year here, Lawrie is still cheap, and so on.

    If AA has the assets he should make a strong push for Dickey (JPA, Sierra, prospect) and maybe offer Melky a 1 or 2 year deal.


    SS Reyes
    LF Cabrera
    RF Bautista
    1B Encarnacion
    CF Rasmus
    3B Lawrie
    DH Lind/Davis/Bonifacio/Gose/Cooper
    C d’Arnaud/Buck/Wilson
    2B Izturis/Bonifacio

    that is a world series contender, especially if the rotation stays healthy. plus AA would have the option of keeping around Dickey or Johnson or even both.

  60. Only way he is flipping Johnson or beurhle is in a package with most likely jpa and some prospects for king Felix or Justin upton.

  61. Only way he is flipping Johnson or beurhle is in a package with most likely jpa and some prospects for king Felix or Justin upton.

  62. Enjoy the trade guys!
    I cannot believe the number of people who are already poking holes in the deal eg trade Reyes to az for Upton . An allstar ss with speed on a 6 year deal for a corner OF? C’mon
    Trade Reyes to Texas for an unproven kid in Profar? To what, save fukin $$$ again and start that whole Rogers is cheap shit again??
    No, Reyes, was very likey the main man AA wanted here as he has always liked him and made musings about pursuing as a FA last year but never did it. This was his chance to get him and he did. The trade expandded from there and he Took JJ but had to to take both Buerhle and Buck. Hopefully we can unlaod that POS Buck. Bono is beeter than Vizquel, Mccoy and some other stiffs

  63. I think if the opportunity presents itself after the top 10 starting pitchers are signed, I wouldn’t be surprised if Buehrle was traded to a team that misses out on 1 of the 10. They basically trade him for a prospect and/or outfileder. I’m not sure if center or left is fully solidfied righht now. Rasmus, the jury is still out and Gose is still a year away.

    A catcher is going unless the plan is to have either d’Arnaud or Arencebia DH and Buck mentor both of them for a year and some possible way there able to get a team to take Lind. Edwin would play first.

    Let’s not forget the Jays are probably the fastest team overall in all of MLB, think about it Reyes, Davis, Bonifacio, Izturis, Gose, Lawrie and Encarnacion going to try other team’s pithcers and cathcers nuts, if JoeyBats hasn’t lost his swing, he’s going to clobber a whach of home runs this year

  64. Lets flip Buehrle and Johnson plus Lind/or Gose for Verlander and Cabrera plus Scherzer

  65. Sorry, but Johnson’s agent is an idiot. Actually, I reverse that – I’m not sorry. To assume that Reyes, Buehrle and Johnson are all going to be flipped because the Jays are taking on a lot of salary just doesn’t make sense. If the Jays didn’t want to take on salary, they – and especially Alex Anthopoulos – would definitely not have taken on a ton of salary in exchange for trading away 4 highly-rated young players plus a few spare parts.

  66. Looking back on this article is depressing.

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