Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of (and that I need to distract myself with in order to keep from arguing with the commenters), with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Cathal Kelly of the Toronto Star calls the Gibbons hire the recent move the Jays have made that has given him the most hope, thinking it shrewd of Alex Anthopoulos to be putting his professional future into the hands of a man he knows and trusts, and lauding Gibbers’ “candour, his humour, his lack of ego, his warmth. No one in baseball is warm. Everyone’s too terrified it will be mistaken for weakness. Gibbons gives it off like a furnace.”

Jay Jaffe of Sports Illustrated sees some red flags on John Gibbons– notably the pitcher injuries suffered on his watch. I dunno… it’s not a non-concern, but I don’t think anybody could have prevented Dustin McGowan, BJ Ryan or Shaun Marcum from eventually blowing up good. And AJ Burnett and Roy Halladay have been fine since then.

Jon Heyman of CBS Sports talks to a number of people around the league who are confused by the Jays’ latest hiring, with much focus on the Lilly and Hillenbrand incidents.

In the tweet that provoked the reaction from JP noted earlier, Gregor Chisholm notes that the Texas Rangers have interest in not just Arencibia, but in John Buck as well.

Shi Davidi of Sportsnet talks to an understandably excited Jose Bautista, who says he was promised when he extended with the Jays that pieces would eventually be added to make this a better club, and that he’s always had faith that Alex Anthopoulos would keep his word.

Mike Wilner captures the key reason why the media has, far more than a lot of fans, welcomed back John Gibbons with open arms, noting that “in one introductory news conference, new Toronto Blue Jays manager John Gibbons smiled, laughed and kibbitzed more than John Farrell did in two years on the job.”

Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail calls Gibbons the most underrated manager in Blue Jays history, and notes that BJ Ryan once said “that in his first year under Gibbons he only got up once in the bullpen without getting into a game.” Nails.

Ken Rosenthal tweets that the Jays have interviewed Baltimore third base coach DeMarlo Hale as the possible first bench coach of the second Gibbons era. He says Manny Acta may be a candidate for the position as well.

Kiley McDaniel checks in from instructs for FanGraphs, and raves about Roberto Osuna, who he says “has two/three starter upside with much lower risk than most teenage pitchers,” and who he notes would be entering next year’s draft were he American, and would likely be the top high school arm available were that the case. We’re also told that Matt Smoral has two/three upside with a good changeup, though he’s yet to throw that pitch as a pro.

At BlueJays.com, Gregor Chisholm writes that the Jays have no qualms about Melky Cabrera or his drug suspension, providing amply quotes from Alex Anthopoulos on the subject.

Elsewhere at the Star, Richard Griffin had a post-news conference chat.

Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports tweets that the Marlins are already looking to move Yunel Escobar. What, too expensive?

Elsewhere on Twitter, apparently #MakeJoseAJay is a thing. Referring to Jose Canseco. Uh… please stop encouraging him.

Elsewhere at FanGraphs, today’s podcast “considers, among other topics, the impact a deep minor-league system can have on an organization’s ability to acquire major-league talent — not unlike what happened in the recent trade that saw Toronto acquire Mark Buehrle, John Johnson, and Jose Reyes from Miami.”

Baseball Analytics examines two of the best power sliders in the game– both of which now reside in the Jays’ rotation, belonging to Brandon Morrow and Josh Johnson.

Cee Angi of Bluebird Banter tells Jays fans that they’re going to love Mark Buehrle. Sure, I’m ready for that.

Lastly, at Getting Blanked, Drew weighs in on the announcement of Gibbons’ hiring, as awesomely as you’d expect, while Scott Lewis brings us a picture of the saddest protest in the history of ever. Oh, Marlins fans. Orange Bowl for this???

Comments (182)

  1. The concern about keeping pitchers healthy is valid. But I’d point out that Brad Arnsberg doesn’t work here anymore.

  2. Posted this in one of the other threads (great work today, by the way), but thought I’d re-post here for opinions:

    We all seem to agree that the Jays have two “needs” left – a righty platoon partner for Lind, and pitching depth.

    Focusing on the pitching, what do we want/think is likely to see?

    Sure, they could shock us again and sign an Anibal Sanchez, but let’s take them at face value that there isn’t much payroll room left.

    Would the goal be to upgrade Happ? Happ looks like, potentially, a 2 WAR pitcher for next year. A real upgrade to that wouldn’t be THAT easy, especially one that comes cheap. Acquiring one would probably take a package of Arencibia + or, if it’s a very good but young pitcher, giving up d’Arnaud.

    Or is the goal to get a good option that can take over if Happ (or Romero) falters? Maybe it’s someone that profiles as a swingman, or is a big-league ready prospect or guy with options, that can start in the minors.

    Or would it just be to add depth with minor league deals – a bunch of Laffeys who can fill in if there’s an injury, but aren’t to be counted on?

    So, just asking, which of these three options do you think is most likely?

    • The optimal thing would be to find a pitcher who is good enough to bump Happ into the ‘pen. No matter how unlikely it sounds, i’d love to see a trade with texas for Ogando or Holland.

    • http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4662&position=P

      Its going to happen. If he can toss a full season he’d be perfect.

    • If it’s just an opinion.
      Based upon the look of the CURRENT bullpen and assuming nobody is traded.
      Most teams need 7 to 8 starters to make it through the season.
      My guess is depth in AAA. A couple of guys who can be called up in case of emergency that don’t cost a ton.Guys that’ll give you a solid 6 innings and turn it over to the BP.
      Has nothing to do with cost savings but more room on the roster.

    • I’d sign Villanueva and give him a crack at a starter’s job. He won’t break the bank. He’s a known commodity. He didn’t pitch too badly when he was moved to starter. Assuming he’s working hard with his strength and conditioning, perhaps he can give us 160 innings with Happ waiting in the wings if CV runs out of gas.

      • i still honestly think this wouldn’t be the worst idea in the world.

        i’m not sure why people are so quick to dismiss Villaneuva. He’s been actually pretty great 2 years in a row right up until the moment he’s over-extended…and that’s been after quite a few starts.

        he’s probably cheaper than a lot of options. so much so that you could probably still afford an AAA acquisition as well.

        • I’m not one to dismiss CV and think he would be a great swingman (#5/6) again, but I just wouldn’t want to pay him as a starter if I’m not convinced he can be a starter all season. If we can get him for reasonable $$, I’d go for it,

          • since I think Happ is better than CV I wouldn’t want to offer CV the 5th starting spot over him. If he would accept the swing man role then he would be great to bring in

      • @GMSC I’m with you on this if they can’t get someone else. I still think CV would make a better starter than Happ in 2013 and the depth would be sweet to have.

  3. Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail calls Gibbons the most underrated manager in Blue Jays history, and notes that BJ Ryan once said “that in his first year under Gibbons he only got up once in the bullpen without getting into a game.” Nails.

    oh, this is fucking awesome.
    i can’t stand seeing pitchers yo-yo between standing up and sitting down. don’t waste the arm if it’s not going to see game action!

  4. I think re-signing Villanueva, if he’ll sign for a reasonable amount, as a swingman and spot starter would make the most sense. Otherwise, Brad Lincoln has started …

    I only say these two as injury fill-ins in a temporary sense. Much like Scott Downs was used for a period of time.

  5. Has anyone confirmed the amount of money the Marlins are sending our way?

    • 4 million. So basically, most of John Buck’s salary

      • 8.5 million according to cots. But i haven’t seen the offical announcement.

        • Maybe it’ll be like the VW trade where the actual amount is never known and people just assume it was $5 million.

        • If Cots is right, that would be excellent. I thought that the original talk of $4 million was to cover Buehrle’s deferred signing bonus. If it’s that plus an additional $4.5, even better!

          • AA on PTS saying the 4.5 million (in addition to the 4 million for Buerhle’s bonus) was to cover the difference between Buck at 6 and Mathis at 1.5. That tells me Buck is here to play Mathis’ role as the backup C in 2013.

        • AA was asked on PTS about the reported “8 million” and he said it’s more than that

          • Anyone else notice that AA has really changed from this time last year in terms of privacy? They refused to mention the dollars in the VW trade, and he’s been more open in other areas as well.

  6. We should focus on hiring a talented, qualified training staff to help ease susceptibility to injury for our players. Especially if they won’t change from turf to natural grass.

  7. Gibbons is a guy who you’d want to have over to the house for a beer and a burger after a good game. A guy like your dad’s old friend from the army – you think he’s just an over-the-hill old coot…until he shakes your hand and practically crushes your fingers. He might be all “Aw-shucks, ma’am – it ’tweren’t nuthin.” to talk to….but the man’s got game.

  8. Two best things I heard in the Gibbons presser:

    1) Paraphrasing: “Melky could be a productive guy in the middle of the order, if you buy into that.” Sounding like a guy who knows that any good hitter will be “productive” in the middle of the order.

    2) And “Alex paid Melky to come over and hit, so we want him to have as many at bats as possible.”

    Sounds like a guy who really gets it.

  9. Guys…. go over to bluejays.com and look at the Depth Chart page and tell me it doesn’t make you feel funny in your pants.

    just wanted to say that.

    • Reyes
      Cabrera
      Bautista
      Encarnacion
      Lind
      Lawrie
      Rasmus
      Arencibia
      Bonifacio/Izturis

      Johnson
      Buerhle
      Morrow
      Romero
      Happ/Jenkins

      ZOMG!

      • Starting to look good. Really one more starter and they are set for depth. The bench is the best it’s been for years which is something that a lot of fans usually don’t but enough consideration in. Imo it’s been a huge part of the success of the Yankees over the years especially when you can spend so much on the bench.

        If they add someone else like Gomes it would be cherry on top.

      • I dont think Lind deserved to be in that 5 spot, but I do think that’s where he’ll be when the season starts.

    • yeah i was looking at it earlier today. Lind appears in too many spots

      • Yep. Anything more than Left handed DH and pinch hitter is too much for Lind at this point.
        I’m resigned to the fact that he’ll still be on the team, but I think he can at least be a good Matt Stairs’y type asset.

  10. It’s nice to come here and read the comments once in awhile. I realize that there’s a lot of people who comment here that don’t share the same opinion as everyone, but usually the comments are at least mildly intelligent and there aren’t a fuck ton of “Longtime Jays Fans” who don’t realize that our new (old) managers name is John Gibbons. Not John Gibson, or John Gibbson for that matter. It’s John FUCKING Gibbons. If you’re going to criticize the shit out of him at least learn his fucking name. Rant finished.

  11. Anyone know what those two complete douchetard idiots think of this?

    (McCowan and Zaunie?)

    • McCowan loves it, not sure about Zaun.

    • Zaun likes it because it fits his MO as fantasy GM:

      1. Spend to contend
      2. Trade prospects for major leaguers to contend

      What AA has done for the last 3+ years is far more complex.

      I wouldn’t put “the trade” or the other recent moves in AA’s top 5 transactions. All the work that led up to this last week was exceptional. These last few moves are just the cherry on top which is more about Rogers than AA.

      • I can see Zaun perceiving and liking that Gibbons is an old school hardass, although I don’t see Gibby that way. He doesn’t take shit, but I don’t think he goes out looking for a fight.

      • I read that in Zaun’s voice and it fit perfectly.

  12. In that Top Slider article I would love to see where a healthy Santos ranks on that list with his slider. In 2011 he had a
    .078 BA, .176 SLG, .088 ISO, .114 TAv

    vs Morrow’s Slider in 2012
    .194 BA, .275 SLG, .078 ISO, .190 TAv

  13. “my level of confidence as an athlete has just been quadrupled and I don’t say that lightly”

    - Bautista

  14. LOL i hope zaun goes back to baseball that turd cant analyze worth poop

  15. I like the Gibbons signing. Lilly and Hillenbrand aren’t here anymore so there’s no need to rehash the stuff that happened between those two and Gibbons. In fact, Gibbons had a winning season and didn’t finish lower than third despite missing the playoffs. I think AA knows that there were players here in Gibbons’ time that liked him as the manager. He was fired by Ricciardi and I don’t think he ever wanted to leave.

  16. Please Boston sign Hamilton

  17. AA “above 8M coming to us”

  18. AA just stated on PTS that the money involved in the Marlins trade is “more than $8 million”

    • what he ^^ said.

      • That $8 Million+ makes Buehrle’s contract seem more reasonable, especially if they could get rid of Buck’s $6 Millionish contract.

    • It’s $8.5 million, $4 million for Buerhle’s bonus, $4.5 million for the difference between Buck and Mathis. AA lives off talking like this, saying “it’s north of $8 million” instead of saying it’s barely ($500,000) over the number McCown stated. It’s why any “assurance” JPA got should be taken with a grain of salt.

      • well you would have to be an idiot to think “north of 8 million” means 15 million or something.

        • I didn’t. $8.5MM has been widely reported.

        • Well, the way it went down, McCown asked him if it was “$8 million” and AA responded “it’s north of that”, so AA definitely led people to believe whatever they want to believe. If you hadn’t seen any of the reports online, you could definitely believe he meant any number.

          • Don’t ask Wilner though, as he’s tweeting that AA confirmed the Jays got $4.5M. The man doesn’t listen to anybody, does he?

    • This is getting greedy, but I would love to see some of that money to toward picking up Youk for a couple of years. I know we need a shitballer for the 5th spot in the rotation, but I think we could get CV for 2/$12MM. Done.

      • At first I hated this idea…. But he can at least get on base and ended the season fairly well.

        Is he any better or more expensive than Gomes?

        He could also spell Lawrie when he unapologetically injures himself trying to run down a catcher…..

        While stealing home…..

        In the top of the 3rd…..

        With the Jays up by 6……..

        With the pitcher throwing from the stretch……

  19. Lots of media have been talking about how the Bosox weren’t a juggernaut after getting Gonzalez and Crawford. Well they actually were a pretty damn good team that would’ve made the playoffs barring a historic collapse that had little to do with the team’s overall talent.

  20. “This is uhhhh….., I mean this is……., this is Serious Stuff now.” Is my personal mantra for 2013

  21. Anyone surprised by AA’s admission that it was actually Beeston who approached Rogers and got the approval to take on the extra dollars for the contracts?

  22. I think it’s fair to point out how it’s also likely that pitcher’s have had injuries under Gibbon’s watch:

    Marcum: Unusual mechanics. He essentially shotputs the ball.
    McGowan: Already had a history of arm trouble- TJ surgery before making the bigs.
    BJ Ryan: Didn’t this happen very early in the season? Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see how that would be his fault.
    AJ Burnett: He was injury prone before he even threw his first pitch as a Blue Jay.

    Anyone else?

  23. I guess AA and I were thinking in similar terms that he originally was considering Gibbons as bench coach/ other role. Obviously, discipline was an issue that AA felt needed to be dealt with in regards to the team.
    AA can top this off now by allowing him to choose his own staff. Please don’t keep the holdovers just ’cause.
    I really think Walton should not be back as pitching coach, as it seems change for the sake of change would be needed.

  24. Adding DeMarlo Hale or Acta as the bench coach would be awesome. Acta especially would be great morale for the Dominican guys and a great translator. Bautista already acted like a mini coach in some leadership areas that really I think the manager should be someone that understands the need for disciplined and logical baseball. Farrell may have been a good people person but his on field managing sucked, especially the bunting and run game, because either his players didnt listen to him a la bonehead running by Rajai and co. or he didn’t know how to execute it. He also sucked (for a pitching guy) at managing the bullpen, so much frustration the last 2 years with that. Gibby should be an improvement in both those areas

    • Hale is out. I read somewhere today that Orioles won’t let Hale make a lateral move.

      • I read that he’s not under contract yet though, so until they sign him to one, he’s free to negotiate.

        • You are right or partially right, his contract expires in December so after that I guess he’d be free to do what he wants.

    • Acta was pretty clear that he’s looking for a front office job when the rumours were swirling about him managing.

    • Yeah, but who’s gonna translate Gibby-to-English so Acta can translate English-to-Spanish?

      • RADAR promised to teach me Stoetenese, but then he became entranced with spontaneous combustion and reneged. Gibby-to-English would be a walk in the park for him, as long as you dangled the right carrot. (Forget the stick-he’s insensate.)

    • Anyone have any sense on whether bench coaches tend to be hires that are close to the manager or not?

      It seems to me that if I was a manager, bench coach is a position I’d want to have one of “my guys” in.

      As such, wondering if this talk makes sense of foisting a bench coach on Gibbons, like Wak was on Farrell.

      • My guess is that it would be an example where the manager and GM are on the same page wrt what is required. (ie-a speaker of Spanish/calligraphy a la Waka/whatever). I’m hoping Gibby gets last dibs.

  25. So Kuroda signs with Yanks for $15 million + incentives. Too bad. I was hoping he would go back to Japan.

  26. I kind of feel like a kid and its the day after Christmas but I still want more toys.

    • Not to worry, SAntA will be bringing more for everyone. Catching surplus needs to be sorted and frankly, he can’t help himself. It seems like he enjoys being hyperactive

  27. I’m stoked.
    With this lineup, I’m seeing a ton of first-to-thirds on a single. I’m seeing a higher percentage of stolen bases…as well as quantity of SB’s. I’m seeing quality starts of 6+ innings…and then hopefully a shutdown duo of Santos and Janssen in the eighth and ninth innings. I’m seeing speed in the outfield and pretty good arms. I’m seeing guys challenge each other, and slapping each other on the ass after a good play. I don’t see any soft spots in this lineup for opponents to look forward to.
    Just get me another guy to plug into the 4 or 5 spot, some AAA depth, and maybe a leftie off the bench – and I’ll jizz myself.

  28. Jesus.

    Coming up on 100 comments for an afternoon snack post.

    Something interesting happen in Jays land lately?? Did I miss something?

  29. I exist y’know

  30. Anyone else (besides Marcum, McGowan, Ryan and Burnett:?)

    Sure. Chacin, Janssen, Accardo. Maybe Jesse Litsch. But like I said, Arnsberg isn’t here anymore.

  31. i think Josh Towers has to get some consideration, after that 200+ inning season, not the same player anymore

  32. Royals gave Guthrie 25 million for three years.

    Guthrie…

    25 million…

  33. Man if the Jays could dump Buck and get actual talent in return? That would be incredible.

    That could free up enough dollars to sign another free agent (starter?).

    And let’s be honest–Arencibia isn’t going to lose trade value in that lineup.

  34. I am growing to like the Gibby decision more and more. Tis team does need a firmer hand than was shown last year, but not a firm hand all the time. Gibby knows when to apply the gas and the break

  35. Bryan Lahair dropped by the Cubs . . . has insane splits, too bad they are trending in the opposite direction of what we need (guy who can hit lefties) but if the Jays could pick up for next to nothing could make a useful bench bat for DH’ing

    • Apparently he wants to go to Japan

    • Wow, didn’t realize his splits were that ghastly. He’d be an upgrade vs. RHP on Lind, but unless Lind somehow gets pawned off on someone else, they’re basically the same player and I don’t see a role for Lahair here.

  36. Gibby makes sense. Beeston made all this happen. He was not a happy camper with Farrell, YE crap etc, etc. The guy worked in MLB head office, run the Jays, had a fantastic reputation and to have all this crap transpire last season was the final straw. So, they went for it. I think they’ve got more to come and depending what is available, it could surprise us again. I wish I lived closer to TO but I plan to take in a few games this year. I just hope the place is packed for every game this season. It’s the least we can do as fans.

  37. Buster Olney trying to harsh everyone’s mellow – “the Blue Jays still have a whole lot of work to do”

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8655262&categoryid=2378529

    One of his points is that Johnson and Buehrle are coming from the NL East where 4 of the worst hitting teams resided (but for Nationals-10th – ATL-17th, PHI-19th, Mets-26th and MIA-29th-except one of those teams was their own, so they obviously didn’t face those batters) and then he repeats the same mistake by saying they are going to face the AL East where 4 of the top offenses reside (yeah, and one of those is the Blue Jays).

    Sober up Buster. The Sux are not going to be the same offensive club they were without Adrian Gonzalez and they were 8th last year, O’s 15th and TB 18th. Stankees will still be tough but don’t act like this is the AL East of the late 2000s.

    • Good analysis dm.

    • farrell’s idiot baserunning philosophy will likely shave about a hundred runs off the sux next year too

    • His specific points might be off but there’s still questions especially with regards to pitching depth. I do think the offense is fairly stacked if everyone is healthy. With the bench depth being better than it has for years, I think that will go a long way to winning more of those tight games especially if they add someone else like Gomes.

      Looking at it objectively, the pitching depth and some of the quality does scare me a little. I am totally fine with my expectations for Morrow and Johnson. As Smoltz said on MLB in that video someone posted, maybe you did, sorry can’t remember, he expects Johnson to get better a year removed from his surgery.

      As for Romero, Buehrle and Happ, there’s a few legitimate questions about what we’re going to get. I know it’s early but there’s nothing really viable to turn to at this point if Romero and Happ shit the bed again in 2013 . I’m not saying they will, but it’s a rather large question mark. Buehrle is by no means a certainly in the AL East either. However, in Buehrle’s case you have to remember that his career stats against those teams aren’t too bad with the exception of the results vs the Yankees. His career 4.64 ERA vs the Red Sox is actually just a tad more than 3 runs over 6 innings per game. I think we’d all take that from our starters against a good hitting team like the Sox every time out.

      Basically the way I look at it is the ceiling has probably never been higher for a Jays starting rotation 1 through 5 even if you include that bum Happ lol sorry can’t help myself, but to be fair at least Happ’s FIP is pointing in the right direction for a #5 starter. Unfortunately, over the course of a long season there’s enough question marks with the majority of them that I still have plenty of concerns. Hopefully they can get to a Tampa level in the number of starts those 5 make. In 2012 their top 5 guys made 92% of the starts and averaged a little over 6 innings per start. If the Jays can get 30-32 starts of good quality from the top 4 then they really do have a chance to win 95 games imo. I just hope AA pulls the trigger one more time before the season starts cough Dan Haren cough Jeff Samardzija cough.

      • You are relentless in your pursuit of the demotion of JA Happ! Nice analysis…

        I’m actually fine with Happ as a 5, but I’d like the Jays to add an arm that could be 5/6. I honestly don’t expect there to be one much better than a 5/6 available in what must be left of the Jays’ “payroll parameters” (that phrase no longer gives us hives, eh?).

        Good point about Buehrle’s numbers against Boston; I never really thought in terms of the 6-7 innings (6.3 would be a good number on average) of a given start against Boston. The article posted to Bluebird Banter points to some of those potential weaknesses against the AL East. However, I think it’s also important to remember that we aren’t starting Buehrle against NY 18 times…

        • I know I am probably ragging on Happ too much right now but I guess I get irked when I hear people talk about him like he was totally solid with one breath and trash Laffey and Cecil with the next. I am just going on Happ’s results. If you look at Happ’s last two seasons as a starter he has put up an ERA+ of 71 and 85. Laffey was 94 in 2012. Cecil was 90 in 2011 and 75 in 2012 with some time in relief. Even Alvarez was 88 in 2012.

          Again in Happ’s defense his FIP of 4.02 does point to better things to come in 2013 though he failed to match it the following year the last 2 times. So could I live with a #5 starter who put up a 4.30 ERA? I guess I could. Therefore I suppose I should cut back on the Happ bashing a little or at least until the season starts. I just would hate to see the Jays settle when everything else is looking reasonably bright even though that’s being pretty greedy.

          • Hey, I think you make good points. I also think, though, that the tap might be a little drier than it was last Monday. If the Jays can improve on Happ within their payroll number (whatever that is exactly), they should.

            If they can’t, it was a pretty fucking great offseason anyhow. I do think they need a 5/6. If that guy outpitches Happ, then move Happ to swingman. I’ve no great love for the guy.

          • Oh no question that this has likely been the greatest offseason ever for a Jays team. I also know that Rogers went above and beyond in making allowances for this trade as it is. I guess I am still pretty stoked right now. I think I would be pretty comfortable in believing that come July if the Jays needed another starter Rogers would go the extra mile for the team in that situation and pry some more cash from Ted Dead’s icy grip.

          • Happ is simply a back of the rotation starter. The real issue to me is the lack of AAA rotation depth. I’m fine assuming the rotation turns out to be the five already named, but the Blue Jays wil have multiple other pitchers making starts due to various reasons, and there is little there that gives me confidence.

  38. anyone else hear gibby’s interview with mccown and brunt?

    gibby said he was contacted thursday by AA to interview for a coaching position, he hoped for bench coach

    weird that gibby wasn’t even contacted by AA until last thurs, and wouldnt you usually hire your coaches after you had a manager?

    was AA left at the altar by his first choice?

    especially interesting was when gibby said he thought he had a shot at a bench coach position with a less experienced manager

    • You know when you’re in the grocery store, and you’re trying to find that one thing thats so elusive.. lets say taco seasoning. And you look and you look and God dammit you cant find that taco seasoning. So you take a step back and you say, “I’ll find it after the milk”

      Then you go to get the milk and you pass mustard on the way and you think “Fuck tacos, daddy’s having hot dogs tonight”

      And you walk out of the store with a pack o’ dogs.

      I think that’s what happened to AA.

    • I won’t pretend on an academic level I’m not interested, but AA made his choice and I’m real happy with it, so here’s hoping the ninja erased all his tracks.

    • Personally doesn’t matter to me if Gibby was his 2nd or 3rd choice. I think it will be a good fit especially if Rogers continues their financial support at levels like this.

      • The support will continue as long as there’s interest in the team and it provides content.

        • From your lips to Nadir`s ear. I sure hope you`re correct. While you`re whispering in the big man`s ear, can you get him to pony up just a bit more of Dead Ted`s cash for someone like Dan Haren? I would be eternally grateful.

          • Sorry NM.
            Show the progress, in the form of attendance and ratings and team success.
            Maybe 5 to 10 mil more Max. to play with and thats if it’s an unbeleivable deal.
            As it is, you may ask me to eat Linds salary at some point this year.

          • Bah grumpy old spoil sport. You’ve given us the sun and the moon. We just want the stars now.

          • RADAR’s got a bad case of hubris, night_manimal.

          • I ain’t got no hubris,doc gave me a shot for it and it cleared up.

    • I don’t see that exactly. I have much more a feeling that AA pulled his ninja move even on Gibbons. I’m assuming this is a transcript:

      AA – Hey…how about flying up to T.O. for a good meal…maybe a few drinks at Hemingway’s…we can talk about being a coach or [inaudible mumbling]…
      JG – Mummm…murph…platoon splits…
      AA- Yeah…and…um…while you’re down we can check out Skyfall…
      JG – Mmmm…gurgh…proper bullpen management and not running into outs…
      AA – [in head] If he says he’d have hit Yunel with a chair, I’ll marry him…

    • Nice dig NM.

    • That was a fuckin good read.

      For those of you who have been questioning AA, here’s a great example of how he just continues to improve the brand thati Is the Toronto Blue Jays on every level.

      Thanks Manimal.

  39. Nearly choked on my corn flakes when I read this…

    “Gibbons replaces John Farrell, a serious tactician with a sterling reputation…”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/21/sports/baseball/restocked-blue-jays-again-hire-john-gibbons-as-manager.html

    I wonder if this was copied straight off a Red Sox press release.

    • It’s almost a classic modification error (forgive the grammar geekiness of this…):

      It should have said “Gibbons, a serious tactician with a sterling reputation, replaces John Farrell” (ah…look how much the placement of an appositional phrase matters!).

  40. An interesting little note which may be of some comfort (though I recognize that we’d hope for better). In 2006, the Blue Jays finished 3 games back of the WC play-in game; in 2007, they were 5 gb. I realize we want a ring as fans, but imagine how much important September baseball would have been happening then.

    I’m not a big believer in overall manager “wins contributions”. Mostly, I’d like the manager to avoid loss contributions. The number bandied about by Griff at the presser was +2 wins to -4 losses. Maybe. However, I do think that Gibbons managed a team that had some problems (would you trade the 06 or 07 Jays for the 13 Jays straight up)? And he “got out of the way” well enough for the players to perform to what would be an eliminated-only-in-the-last-week-of-the-season result…

  41. The confirmation that the Marlins kicked in over $8 million is nice to know.

    It means there is likely enough money left over for an upgraded 5th starter, which is really the only potentially expensive move left in the offseason.

    Happ is fine as a #5 starter on an average AL team. But if the Jays are going for it, there’s no point being satisfied with him.

    Haren, McCarthy and maybe even Marcum all could work on 1 year deals.

    Or if the Jays use the trade route, Garza, Dickey, Niese, Holland and Ogando among others could work.

    I’m glad Alex can spend the winter meetings haggling over prices knowing that he isn’t forced to do anything else.

    • I thought that too but after listening to AA on McCowan’s show it seems Rogers really went above what they had originally planned to give AA. Considering he said the deal nearly died until the Marlins kicked in $4.5 million to cover the difference in Buck and Mathis’ contract I’ve got to think that the total amount would likely go to cover the overage. Of course you never know. It’s funny how you go from payroll parameters in 2012, to this fluid, hard to pin down number in 2013.

      Again I would love for them to do something, anything, to snag a guy like Haren for a year or two years.

      • If their at the payroll limit are they able to unload Buck and Lind and roll with Cooper, Wilson and a 10M a year pitcher?

        • I’d thought about that but it creates a depth problem again though you could argue it might be worth the risk to do so. I was thinking earlier that the Jays could survive nicely with Wilson as JPA’s backup for a couple of months until it was time to call up d’Arnaud. However, after last season I just don’t see AA doing it.

          Without taking the depth issue into account, I wonder what the difference of a Lind vs Cooper, Buck vs Wilson/d’Arnaud and Davis vs Gose would be worth to the team in wins if they were to use that money on a good starter instead. Again I know it’s not going to happen I just would love to see how it played out.

          • That’s like an ultimate WAR trade-off question.

            One non-WAR-related idea that would factor in is whether or not using d’Arnaud and Gose in the roles you suggest (to spot fill in for bench players) would delay development that they could have in a full season in a real AAA league/park. Minor league experience would contribute no WAR to this Jays team, but might also be essential to long-term success.

        • I’m with you. As I have been saying moving Lind and Buck would, on the surface, free up a total of 13.5m. The 6.5 for Buck and the 5.0 for Lind + the 2.0 buyout for Lind they w/no longer have to pay. However, no team in their right mind will take these 2 straight up. We’d likely have to kick in m/b 3.0 for Buck to move and prob about 4m to move Lind if we want anything back.
          even if we were to approach a Minny with these 2 bottom feeders I think we would be lucky to get back a bullpen arm. However, maybe that would free up Lincoln to be traded back to Pittsburg for…nah

      • @night manimal.

        The big mystery is why Rogers decided to increase the payroll to the 125 million in 2013 after years of `payroll parameters“

        Did the embarrassement over the loss of Farrell prompt Rogers to spend more

        it seems to me that AA found the deal of a lifetime with the Marlins.

        • “Did the embarrassement over the loss of Farrell prompt Rogers to spend more”

          You honestly think a 50% payroll increase, and likely quite a bit more in 2014 and beyond, has anything to do with John Farrell?

          That’s beyond ridiculous.

          AA/Beeston are doing exactly what they said they were going to from the beginning.

          Build the farm system and spend when the time is right.

          It’s not as big as a conspiracy as you like to believe.

          • @Jays 2010

            I do think the loss of Farrell did play a part in getting AA some more payroll.

            The Marlins no trade clauses made it much easier for AA to get Johnson,Buerhle &Reyes.

  42. I sure hope JPA stays and lights it up, guy was asked to work on his defence and he did, now let your offence hammer JP. I also hope that Lind proves everyone wrong and has a solid 2013 in the #5 spot. they need the left handed power other than the inconsistent Rasmus.

    • I thought I was getting greedy asking for Youk. You’re asking for miracles.

      I would love for both Lind and JPA to figure it out, but experience had taught me that guys in their late 20′s rarely have an epiphany and make the necessary changes. That said, I would love to have both of them prove me wrong. I got the flex pack so I would get first crack at playoff tickets.

      • generally I would agree with the notion of late 20s not figuring it out, but I would think both EE and JB have proven that statement a little false. Sure getting a 2010 Lind would be a miracle, but maybe a post-AAA 2012 Lind wouldnt be too bad. And cant argue that JPA’s on-base and avg are less than stellar, but as a 8-9 guy with 25-80 potential that aint bad either, especially from the catcher’s spot. Besides a good to great year from JP makes the off-season haul that much better and allows d’arnaud to get a full year in any league.

        • Trust me, I want everyone to have a monster year. I would love for Lind and To figure it out.

          Lind is like the Buffalo Bills. Every year, I go into the season optimistic, thinking this may be the year. Every December, I realize that they still suck.

  43. Although EE has been pretty consistent since 2006 (for the most part)

    • Really good find. I was amazed at the comparables to Josh Johnson. I was even more amazed at the hilarious appearance OF McCarthy in the comments section…

      Sign him!

  44. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/what-did-the-marlins-actually-get-in-return/

    One more take on the Marlins-Jays trade. This one thinks the Marlins didn’t get nearly enough.

  45. I like the hire, hopefully it works out well as everything points to this being AA’s last shot at picking a manager.

    Also, suck it Farrell… can’t wait to see a jammed skydome yelling for his head when the sux come to town.

    Guess I need to come up with a witty new name to post under now. Thinking “Manager’s Iron Fist” in hopes that Gibby brings the discipline that we expect him to.

  46. Do people remember when Zach Stewart was highly thought of now he just got designated from the 3rd team hes been on….. good lesson for prospects

  47. Ditch buck and Lind to whoever takes the most salary. Look into Sanchez/Jackson/McCarthy. We only really need a pitcher. I would be fine with our lineup even if cooper starts at this point.

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