I think I can probably, by now, say for certain that this will stay as a regular feature around here for the early winter, as again today, with any number of rumblings out there on the trade and free agent markets, and all kinds of decisions being made on players throughout the league who may wind up having some bearing on the Jays’ plans for the off-season, I think it will be a valuable exercise to comb through the latest from the astonishingly fantastic and comprehensive MLB Trade Rumors and add some Jays-related context to whatever is going on out there…

The Red Sox are really high  on Mike Napoli, apparently, which I probably shouldn’t like as much as I do. Paying Napoli catcher money for too many years after his production went back to normal in 2012? Sounds like something I’d think the Sox totally should do. But on the other hand, he’ll probably effing rake in that joke park.

Speaking of the Red Sox, apparently there has been discussion between them an Kansas City for a deal that might involve Jon Lester going to KC (wait, but doesn’t he need John Farrell’s magical fix first!), and Wil Myers heading to Boston. Tampa’s James Shields is another name that’s come up in the Royals’ quest to flip a bat for a starter. To steal a thought from a commenter somewhere… why not Ricky Romero? Intriguing, isn’t it?

Not at MLBTR yet, though I’m sure it will be momentarily: Danny Knobler of CBS Sports has sources telling him that the Angels do not appear likely to sign Zack Greinke. Well… good thing they traded Ervin Santana and didn’t pick up Dan Haren’s option then, amiright? Sign him, Alex. Why the hell not?

Among a trio of players D’d FA by the Mets this afternoon is Mike Pelfrey, who the Mets may try to re-sign at a discounted rate, but who may also hit the free agent market, according to the MLBTR post. If he does, we’re told that “agent Scott Boras may look to place Pelfrey in a starting role as he continues his recovery from Tommy John surgery, and the Mets’ rotation seems full.” Pelfrey was outstanding in a ludicrously small three-start sample last year, and has previously had a pair of three win seasons, eating 200 innings (or thereabouts) pretty consistently for four years. I don’t see how he’s a guy you bank on being better than J.A. Happ, or that the Jays in any way have a fit there, but… he’s a guy.

Bless Canadian catcher Russell Martin, who is apparently trying to give our nation’s lone big league club a hand, seeking a four year deal worth $9- to $10-million per. JP Arencibia not looking so bad now, huh?

Apparently three AL East teams– the Yankees, Rays and Red Sox– have interest in free agent centre fielder Shane Victorino. Hahahahaha, go for it, shitbags!

The Marlins, because who knows what the fuck they’re doing, are apparently now looking for a power bat to hit behind Giancarlo Stanton, who they have no plans to move. Uh… OK?

The Cubs have done some more fine business in the realm of shitty pitchers, signing Scott Feldman to a one-year deal that will see him earn $6-million, with incentives possibly taking it up a million more. Feldman isn’t great, but that’s some delicious value right there– something I thought the Jays should have been going after, y’know, before they shattered our fucking minds with the Marlins deal. They still need another back-end starter though, I think, and there goes that one.

The Yankees appear set to re-sign Mariano Rivera, and also Andy Pettitte. No word on whether Ponce de Leon will also be joining them.

Ex-Jay Mark Teahen has signed a minor league deal with the Diamondbacks. “Teahen looked to have a bright future in the middle of the Royals’ lineup back in 2006, but has seen his production steadily decline,” Steve Adams writes. “He spent 2012 with the Nationals’ Triple-A affiliate, batting .260/.328/.360 in 124 games.” Ouch.

David Wright, who JP Ricciardi reportedly passed on as a prospect, when he was offered in exchange for a couple months of Jose Cruz Jr., has been offered a seven-year extension from the Mets, reportedly in the $140-million range.

Lastly, the Angels have signed Ryan Madson to a one-year deal, though the terms have yet to be reported. If you’re going to rebuild your value as a pitcher in the AL, that’s a pretty good spot to do it. Madson, of course, was reportedly close to getting the ridiculous money Philadelphia eventually gave Jonathan Papelbon last winter, which ended up falling through. He signed a one-year with Cincinnati, and promptly blew out his arm, missing the whole season with Tommy John. Not really Jays-related, no, but when there’s an opportunity to point out the insane Papelbon deal, you gotta take it, no? And this is probably crazy money too: “Madson’s contract with the Reds included an $11MM mutual option for 2013, which he declined in favor of a $2.5MM buyout,” we’re told.

(OK, one more closer thing: at Getting Blanked, Drew notes that Brian Wilson may be non-tendered by the Giants. Hmmm…)

Comments (103)

  1. Would Brian Wilson cost more than just a one year incentive laden deal to re up his value?

  2. If he is non tendered that would be a wicked chance to take. Fear the beard!

  3. He passed on Wright too? Damn, I knew about Tulo, not Wright.

    • we had russ adams and hinske

      • yeah, we had those 2 fukstiks is right.
        It’s not only the POss that JPR drafted but how many ggod players we either didn’t drafr or simply turned away because he thought they had little upside-goof
        Year after year with JPR we got catchers some of which were listed in an ear;ier post-all were rumored to be can’t miss and as they came up one by one , my initial reaction to seeing them was generally WTF??
        Quiroz, Thigpen,CAsh, Diaz some guy named roberto and a few more.
        Unreal

  4. I can’t imagine why KC would move Myers for two years of Lester coming off a horrible season. Myers is MLB ready, controllable for six seasons, wouldn’t Alex Gordon make more sense? Especially for a team that isn’t particularly showing any indication of kicking the payroll up a notch.

  5. today is Tuesday the 27th, not the 29th. Just saying

  6. I never heard that David Wright for Jose Cruz story until now. If that’s true…wow.

    • “I’m not trading a major league player for some guy in the Sally League”

      Other than the Adam Dunn comments, this was probably JP’s most famous comment.

      • “They’re not lies if we know the truth” is up there as well.

        JP could have made a good lawyer; or at least could have been in an instructional video for what not to do.

        • I know he said that and it still doesn’t wash-I mean doesn’t a liar always know the truth, that’s why it is a lie. Taken one step further using the logic of Jpr, then, there would never be any such thing as a lie, because we would know the truth. Really, Joseph Goebbels w/h been proud of the man

      • Today was the first time reading that old KLaw chat, had a question about Lawrie in there too.

  7. Not sure why KC would want Lester….shouldn’t they want high end, controllable pitching prospects? I wonder if they’d be open to moving Hosmer? I think he’d be a great fit, and I’d be willing to move any of our prospects (with the exception of D’Arnaud who they don’t need anyways) for him

    • They’ve got a pretty decentish team, with some good young players. They already picked up Santana, getting a Lester (assuming he rebounds) could put them in pretty good shape.

      • Good shape to finish 3rd in their division. I think Detroit and the White Sox are still 1-2. Minny, Cleveland and KC are fighting to not be last

  8. So Ryan dempster is a no go as a jays pickup?

    • I wouldn’t mind him on a 1 year deal maybe with a team option too

    • Dempster would be a great pickup, if you could sign him one a one year deal. If the Angels are not going to sign Greinke, then I could see them going hard after Dempster and would likely offer him a better deal. Not to mention that Demptster would prefer to pitch in Anaheim, which is much friendlier than Rogers Centre.

      I see the Angels being big bidders on much of the same guys the Jays are going to be looking at, most notably guys like Dempster, McCarthy, Marcum. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Angels also signed someone like Villanueva. Losing Greinke could really fuck up their depth.

    • Doesn’t sound like we’re getting any more decent free agents at this point from what guys like Gregor at MLB are saying. That’s just a touch disappointing but in light of the Marlins trade not all that fair I suppose. Still I will be disappointed if he ends up spending $4-5 million more on the pen instead of another starter even if there’s some risk with the starter.

      • J.A. Happ could be a serviceable 5th starter, but beyond him, the depth takes a huge dive downwards. Who is number 6 at the moment? Chad Jenkins? And number 7? Are we going to run out Brett Cecil?

        Depth in the rotation is a concern, despite adding nearly 400 innings with Johnson and Buerhle. We know what one or two injuries can do to a rotation. And all this trading Romero talk is fucking crazy. Why create a hole?

        While many Jays fans are pining for a replacement for Lind, what we really need is another arm for the rotation. I would look at Dempster but I doubt he wants to build value at the Rogers Centre on a one year deal.

        Trade market might be more attractive. I’ve always thought that the Jays and the Indians match well for a trade involving Masterson and the Jays sending a package of Sierra, Cooper and a prospect. The Indians MLB roster is fucking bare going into the 2013 season, and they are likely trading Choo (probably the Yankees or Red Sox). They could use some ready but cheap MLB talent.

        • I really don’t know that Sierra and Cooper have enough value to pull Masterson. that prospect would need to be a significant one.

          • With AA as our GM, and seeing what he has done so far, I have every confidence that he could ninja something involving Sierra and Cooper as the main pieces, and then some B prospect. Indians roster is bare, and I mean, bare. Who is playing 1B next year? They had Kotchman there last year. I think that Cooper could do as well as Kotchman. And Sierra would balance their lefty dominated lineup.

            Sure, the prospect would have to be good. But we are not talking about a front end starter in Masterson. At best, he projects as a good number 4 or number 5 guy on a first division team.

            • Saying Sierra is a fit for Cleveland because he’s right handed makes no sense.

              I could balance out their lefty heavy lineup too. I’m a righty power bat in my gentlemans softball league.

              Any player worth having is not moving for a package centered around Cooper/Sierra.

        • Yeah I don’t get the replacing Lind talk when the rotation needs help way more. I know he’s pretty hated but he’ll do fine as part of a platoon for now.

          As for Masterson and Holland I am equally confused by the love for both. I suppose you can add Niese to that group as well. I know each one has had one good season ranging from an ERA+ of 112 for Holland in 2011 to Masterson’s ERA+ of 122 in 2011. However, all three have had stinkers in the last 3 years as well. 2 each for Niese and Masterson and one for Holland. Which season is indicative of the real pitcher? I guess after taking a second look at Holland’s ERA+ of 97 in 2012, it’s not as bad as Masterson’s 2 years of 84 and 79 or Niese’s 93 and 83.

          Romero on the other hand has had 1 good season ERA+ of 112, one fantastic season ERA+ of 146 and then his stinker ERA+ of 74. The last of which could have been a result of him trying to do too much and pitch through injuries.

          Considering you can get a Laffey type shit baller wtih an ERA+ of 95 the last two years for cheap, I’m not sure why we would pay so much in prospects or other assets for back end guys with a possible ceilings of a #3 starter at best. It certainly would be a risk imo especially when you factor in the cost of the assets you trade and the cost of of paying them on top of that. Also the very fact that Holland and Niese, like Romero, are signed to team friendly contracts for the next few years or so is only going to add to their eventual price. Masterson at least is cheaper but only has 2 years of control left. His FIP also does point to some improvement in 2013, but nothing to write home about either, unlike Niese and Holland whose FIP’s predict some regression.

          Now to be totally fair I can’t answer all the questions about those guys based on numbers alone. Scouting would obviously play a huge role in determining if they were really worth the price, but in looking at the comparisons and spotty track records it really would be less risky to take a flier with someone like a Baker or Feldman for a single year.

  9. Tues, Nov 29?

  10. I actually shot coffee through my nose when I read “Ponce de Leon”. Good one. Maybe he’ll finally find that elusive Fountain of Youth…’cause the Yankees are getting LONG in the tooth, man.

    • No shit… and Im loving it. Couple more years and they have no shortstop, no 3rd baseman, no closer, no catcher, no 4/5 starters…

      • Well I don’t think they are just going to shut down the shop they have resources that can change things pretty damn quick.

  11. I’d take a chance on Wilson, for sure.

  12. Trade Ricky Romero to the pitching desperate Angels as they’re going to probably lose Grienke

    • I posted a couple of weeks back that they should flip Buehrle to the Angels for someone like Kendrick and then sign another free agent to replace Buehrle for this year. All kinds of possibilities if they could turn a deal like that. It would definitely make Davis expendable right off the bat. It might mean more salary this year but would look fantastic next year by not having to pay Buehrle $18 and $19 million over the next two years.

      • I could see something like this happening if the Jays traded for or signed another pitcher. Once all the free agents have found homes, Buehrle may have some decent value. Cant really move him until you have someone to take his spot though.

      • you are really really stupid, if they could just magically sign another pitcher then they would have, dipshit

        • Not so simple as that when you factor in the payroll flexibility going forward. Also a trade like the Marlins blockbuster and taking on $40 million or so in additional payroll would have seemed like an impossible dream until it happened. Adding one more starter for a few million more isn’t a huge stretch especially when you consider the ramifications. One of them being that with Kendrick at 2nd, Bonifcacio would be your 4th outfielder making Davis redundant. AA could easily argue the net savings of no Buehrle+Davis- Kendrick in 2014 would make up for the additional outlay this year.

          • NM I’ve got a problem with JJ. He’s going to take a LOT of convincing to stay ($$$) and I love Buehrle’s 200 IPs and 3 years. Plus 2B is almost as good as covered already. If you flip Buehrle, you may end up with neither of them next year. I could be convinced to take Kendrick and a good pitching prospect though.

          • @Sagan you could be right. Obviously if I was going to trade Buehrle I would have to the other pitcher or pitchers ready to sign or signed for 2013. For 2014 it would be less of a concern because of guys returning from injuries or others ready to step in.

            As for Johnson I completely agree it will likely take a lot of convincing but the first steps in doing so will hopefully have taken place. Those being, showing that the Jays can be winners with him and that the city is a good place to live and play. Without Buehrle’s salary to pay, the dollars almost become a given if you believe he’d be worth the risk. AA has almost been Friedman like in his ability to retain the guys he wants for a decent price. At worst if Johnson still says no you’ve got the money to spend on guys that are younger and hopefully better than Buehrle.

    • I don’t see why everyone is so keen to dump Ricky. Yeah, he had a shitty 2012, but he was an all-star the previous season. Why sell low when you can throw him at the back of the rotation to see which Ricky we have?

      • Ricky will be fine.

      • Agree. This would not be the best time to cut him loose, value-wise. And now that he projects as the 3rd or 4th starter, one could make the argument the pressure will be off him to perform like the staff ace he’s not.

        Every depth chart I see puts him in as the #4 guy, but I like him in the 3 spot. 4th starter is probably where he belongs, but then you’re looking at RRRLL for your rotation when RRLRL might be more interesting to Gibbons/Walker.
        And a team that is rolling Romero out there as the third starter, actually isn’t all that bad. That’s a decent upgrade from Henderson Alvarez, as long as he is anybody but his 2012 self.

        Among the other number 3 starters in the AL… I would take Romero over any of these guys heads up.
        Doubront (BOS)
        Pettitte (NYY)
        Chen? (BAL)
        Hellickson (TB)
        CJ Wilson (ANA)
        Holland (TEX)

  13. K.C. just seems so desperate for pitching. I really wonder what sort of value they would put on Romero. Obviously Lester has been a better pitcher. But it really makes you wonder if they’re whiling to give up that much to get him then what would they be whiling to give up for a package based around Ricky?

  14. I don’t like all the talk about flipping Buerhle or Romero when it doesn’t have a plan for us to have more pitching depth first. It feels like folks are getting ahead of themselves looking to ship out pitching as soon as there’s finally a solid staff. Relative to the past many years, the rotation seems rich right now, but if one of the top four arms is gone, it starts to look thin in a hurry.

    From AA’s statements, we can probably expect further additions to be depth signings, rather than any further free agent splash. A hypothetical Buerhle trade could open up free agent money, but that only makes sense if there’s already someone of Sanchez-type calibre ready to sign a contract.

    I don’t get the Romero-Myers talk. Myers could be great, and he’s controllable. Ok, I get it, but if that trade happened, where does new pitching come from? Romero doesn’t make enough to enable a free agent signing if he’s gone, except perhaps for Haren type reclamation, which is just too weak a link to rely on in a season where there’s a real chance at contention.

    In conclusion: the offense is pretty well fine as is. There will be bombs flying over the fences, and runs crossing the plate. The rotation is still the soft spot. AA has finally put the team in a position for a playoff run. Romero-Myers is 2010 style asset gathering, but it’s not in the best interest of the team this year.

    • +1 The time to talk about rebuilding our farm system or adding minor league high ceiling prospects is done. AA is pushing his chips in the middle of the pot. The AL East is vulnerable next year. Now is not the time to talk about cheap team friendly contracts. Now is the time to fucking push the chips in the pot and get some more pitching.

      While replacing Lind would be great, in a balanced lineup and with the use of platoons, I think he won’t be terrible against RHP. I am more concerned about 2B, as we will be relying on two guys who have super-utility written all over them. Although I do like Bonifacio’s speed.

      AA should be all over guys who could be available on two year deals. Who says Johnson gets extended? If that doesn’t work, then what?

      The Jays’ window to win is not going to last forever. 2013-2015 is the prime years with Bautista, EE, Reyes, and potentially Lawrie all entering their prime years at the same time. Not to mention the rotation and bullpen pieces assembled so far.

      Time for AA to push for another starter. I don’t hate J.A. Happ, but would feel better if he is our number 6 guy waiting in the wings in the bullpen or in Buffalo.

      • Forgot to add Melky. Fuck knows what version of Colby we will be getting in 2013. And JPA + TDA waiting in the wings is another reason why we shouldn’t wait too fucking long.

      • @Ballsdeep.

        Agreed.

        Jays have 3 shots at getting into the playoffs based on the current roster .

        If they get in once & go far, AA gets his job as President of the Jays & Beeston can retire.

        It will also allow the Jays to maintain 120 million plus payroll going forward which makes future rebuilds less painful.

      • It’s kind of a great problem to have, but Johnson’s status after this year already seems like the biggest quesiton mark for next offseason. He could be a top ten pitcher. It would be amazing to lock him up on a good deal, and soooo shitty to see him walk after a good year.

      • Hey guys, don’t forget about me!

    • @Thunder. I do agree with what you are saying. Of course none of these trade ideas are meant to be done in a vacuum. The one I talked about regarding Buehrle would be dependent on other moves balancing things out, but at least if they were able to pry someone like Kendrick from the Angels in return your 2nd base problem is sorted out for the next 3 years or so.

      That said, the best thing about moving Buehrle is that it would ideally free up money if it’s needed for a Johnson extension. Johnson would be the guy that’s ready to sign that contract you were talking about.

      • Fair enough. I think we’re mostly on the same page. I definitely see that the years left on Buerhle’s deal are the most likely to become a burden, and if keeping him is at the cost of Johnson extension, that may be unjustifiable. He’s just a bird in the hand, I’m wary of how much it takes to acquire an equivalent or better starter.

  15. What would it take to sign Dempster? Could AA offer him a two year $20 Million deal? Too little? Too much?

    • Too little.

      I think he’s a 2/$25 guy. Maybe the AAV is a bit high but for short deals that makes sense.

      Fuck. Guthrie is a 3/$25 guy.

      • guthrie was overpaid.

        and now that the jays are good, you can actually pay FA’s fair value, since they *should* want to play for a competitor.

        if jays give him a 1 year deal worth 13 mil with an option

        he’d be crazy to go to the royals or twins for more

  16. One of my favourite results of this offseason has been the ability to make wanking motions at the moves that the Red Sox and Yankees have been making.

  17. Dempster is apparently considering pitching for the Jays. They’ll get another quality starter and a depth guy. Watch Sanchez, watch EJ. As far as trades are concerned, you might see a big trade with some recent assets going the other way but not likely rotation assets.

  18. Everyone knows AA is salivating at the chance to sign Brian Wilson when is non tendered. Hard throwing guy… check, imposing figure on the mound…. check, probably a cheap signing…. check, a guy that will add even more hype and fans to the already fast moving hype train, check.

    Sell old balls Oliver to the Rangers for something and bring in Wilson. Because we all know Santos wont be the same this season anyways.

    In regard to the rest… the Angels, seriously what the fuck is that organization smoking? It really just seems like poor general management to me here. Great looking team still, dont get me wrong and I also get the letting go of Haren to free up the coin but Santana? why?

    • The Angels might jump on Buhrle, no?

    • Bucky – My source is like yours, “everyone knows” lol I worked in baseball and still have a few connections. I never said much about The Trade but I did suggest something major was coming (be a liar to say I knew it was that big) in the next week. I missed it by two days, which is not bad. Right now, it’s heating up again. My source? Dream Police lol

  19. Someone help me out here, as a guy who’s not exactly a stats expert. Is there something I’m missing about Dempster? From a peripheral look from my caveman brain…I dunno. He just doesn’t seem THAT good. Sure he can eat innings, I guess. And he had that great start last year…that went all to hell once he went to Texas. But otherwise…his numbers seem pretty blaise, AND he’s 35. In our current rotation, I’d probably have him behind Johnson, Morrow, Buehrle, and yeah, even Romero.

    So what am I missing?

  20. I’m depressed that this is becoming a facebook/twatter/cellphone site. Sigh.

    While I’m still able to access the content I will say I’d love to see us take a shot on Brian Wilson, he was fuckin hillarious on “The Franchise”. If you haven’t watched it do yourself a a favor. Great show and he was one of the best parts.

    Oh yeah, he’s also a fairly good pitcher.

    • Smasher–they’re just more doors and devices to enter the same site.
      Don’t worry, be happy.
      Dinosaurs such as you and I will still be welcome (he said hopefully.)
      We might have to use the back door, mind.

    • Stoeten says he likes his new followers on facebook more than he likes us. he says they are more hip and cool than the ugly blog people he used to hang with.
      We can hang around here as long as we want, just don’t get in the way or bother the new cool kids.
      I think he means for us to just fade awa………

      • Ah I’m just fuckin with ya.
        Stoeten is maximizing DJF exposure through as many platforms as possible.
        Blog,facebook, twitter,youtube,itunes.
        If he could put it in a newspaper he would.

      • Not to worry RADAR.
        El Supremo will grandfather us in, thereby exempting us from needing to be cool or relevant. That includes The Smasher, who was untimely ripped from his mother’s womb.

  21. Does Matt Drappel look like he is supposed to be on americas most wanted??

  22. With the Red’s signing Broxton and moving Chapman to the rotation, how about a trade for Homer Bailey? I feel like i remember reading somewhere last offseason that the Jays had some interest in him. Hard throwing strikeout guy, doesn’t walk to many or give up home runs.

    • Pitchers shouldn’t be named Homer, it fucks with the balance of the Cosmos.

    • or give up home runs.

      His career HR/9 is 1.09, and was 1.13 last year. No doubt that would inflate in the AL East, where 4 of the 5 parks are hitter-friendly.

      Tom W is right. There’s no way he can pull a Homer.

  23. Jack Cust & Vlad Guerrero are out there for the Marlins….They would fit into their salary structure

  24. This is off the topics of the past few days, but with every Broxton and League type signing, AA’s strategy to stock cheap controllable relievers looks better and better.

  25. Referencing back to an earlier discussion, the Android version of theScore app does not have access to blogs/DJF….am I right? I’ve looked it up and down and all around.

    • I had the same issue a couple of months ago with my iPhone. I gave up checking the Score app for DJF until yesterday. It was then that I noticed the link worked. Hopefully, they figure it out.

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