Now it’s time for all the stuff I don’t figure on making full posts out of (and that I need to distract myself with in order to keep from arguing with the commenters), with the spiffy graphic by Matt English (aka @mattomic). It’s your Afternoon Snack… er… Afternoon Hangover… er… links!!!

Jack Moore of FanGraphs examines whether or not Josh Johnson is still an ace– and concludes that, without his old 96-97 MPH fastball, he’s probably more a number two. Um… we’ll still totally take that, thanks.

Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star talks to Brian Butterfield, whose dream job– it turns out– was with the Jays, and who took it rather hard when, for the umpteenth time, they didn’t come calling.

At Sportsnet, Shi Davidi writes about Casey Janssen’s shoulder procedure, and reiterates the idea that it’s not really anything to worry about.

BlogTO has some awesome old Toronto stadium proposals– including their full pitch to MLB– from when the city attempted to get a 1960 American League expansion team.

Jeff Blair probably wrote a solid article for the Globe and Mail about Marvin Miller, but I can’t read it, because apparently I’ve hit my article limit for the month on their fancy new paywall. Sucks for the Globe. They will be missed.

The Hall of Fame ballot– the big one– is out. Drew has the list of names at Getting Blanked. For those wondering, the correct answers are: Bagwell, Biggio, Bonds, Clemens, Martinez, McGwire, Piazza, Raines, Trammell and Walker.

Earlier Drew nailed it on the whole damn dispiriting topic (and elsewhere still, he tells us of Jussell Martin, who is insisting he should play shortstop for Team Canada at the World Baseball Classic, which… is kind of awesome). has some Jays-related HoF stuff, with Barry M.  Bloom writing about the candidacy of Jack Morris, Richard Justice on Roger Clemens, and John Schlegel on Fred McGriff.

In the Boston Globe, Peter Abraham gets it: he’s in no position to judge who did what in the steroid era, explaining that “the Hall of Fame is a wing in a museum, a place to go learn about the game. PEDs were part of the game and my ballot will reflect that.”

In the wake of the Chooch suspension, Russell A. Carleton– aka @pizzacutter4– writes a fascinating piece about Adderall for Baseball Prospectus.

Kyle Franzoni of Jays Journal wonders if the Ruiz suspension helps the Jays by forcing another club into looking for a catcher.

“Miami pitcher Tom Koehler, a native of New York City, is trying to host a charity baseball camp Saturday at Marlins Park to raise money for victims of Hurricane Sandy,” writes Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post (via the always-excellent Baseball Think Factory). “But only five people have registered, prompting Koehler to wonder if anti-Marlins backlash over the team’s recent fire sale is to blame.” Ouch.

Not Jays-related, but at, Alex Speier tries to make sense of the recent rumour involving the Red Sox and Royals talking a Jon Lester-Wil Myers swap.

Also not Jays-related: Jon Sickels of Minor League Ball looks at the Orioles’ top prospects. Gulp. And it doesn’t even include Machado!

Baseball Prospectus is looking for “stats stringers” to cover, among other clubs, the Jays in 2013. Go get hired!

Lastly, the Blue Jay Hunter closes out Movember with every Jays moustache in history. Impressive.

Comments (118)

  1. Fuck Jason frasor

    • Why?

      • This is always such a tough question, because statistically you’re absolutely right that Jason Frasor has been nothing but effective for the Jays. I think the problem many (and I) have with Jason Frasor is that his effectiveness seems inversely proportionate to the leverage of the occasion. Watching a reliever pitch his way to defeat is much more resonant than watching him pitch a scoreless inning in a 3 or 4 run ballgame.

        So, I dunno, fuck Jason Frasor, but who can even care about that shit when so many exciting things are happening with the more important bullpen arms and with the team in general?

    • I wrote this in-season. You just don’t use Jason Frasor on consecutive nights like Farrell often did. Well rested, Frasor was effective for no more than an inning.

      Personally, I won’t miss him. Esmil Rogers throws the shit out of the ball and has more durability than Frasor.

  2. Butt

  3. FYI…you can skirt the Globe paywall by viewing any article in Incognito Mode in Chrome or whatever the equivalent is for Firefox and IE.

    • Good to know.

    • Go to Firefox, and start private browsing. Gets you around it.

      Or just clear your cookies or something.

    • still might be too complicated for stoeten

    • Or create an IE shortcut, right click -> properties and add -private to the target.

    • One trick I’ve seen done to link to other paywalled sites: google the title, and then link to the google page. Most of those sites will let in the traffic if it comes from google. I wouldn’t be surprised if you can still read the article this way after you’ve hit your limit, but I don’t want to test it out.

  4. Jeff Blair will be missed. As will Richard Griffin, John Lott and Bob Elliott. I hope you have money in the budget to pay for these new pay walls.

  5. Yeah Id be disappointed ifbI wasnt given the keys to a ferarri either.

    The Jays job probably became EVERY rookie managers dreamjob after The Mathis Trade was completed.

  6. Re: the Sportsnet Magazine cover being Photoshopped or not:

    I decided to make some offseason acquisitions for the Jays, to prove that doing head-swaps in Photoshop is really, really hard.

  7. Italy would definitely beat us again if Martin was playing SS.

  8. Listening to Tim and Sid on my PC at work, they just used the term ‘rosterbate’ and then said they are going to steal it. Punk ass thief’s!

    Is it yours Stoeten, or did you steal it to?

    Just wondering, cuz I have been rosterbating like crazy since the trade.

  9. The butterfield bit tugged my heart strings a bit. Then I remembered gibby’s swag and I immediately forgot. Have fun in Boston, old man.

  10. Todd or Larry?

  11. Has Bonds already been on the ballot once before? I think it’s stupid to exclude these tremendous players because of circumstantial accusations, but I don’t mind seeing them miss a few ballots for being lying scumbags.

  12. I hate the guy, but I think Schilling should maybe be on your HOF list too….

    Also, Reggie Sanders middle name is Laverne

    • Roy Halladay’s middle name is Leroy. And his first name is Harry.

    • Schilling’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer. No question. A jackass of the first degree, and that’s being very nice, but what a pitcher. Especially in the playoffs.

      • Karma and Rhode Island got him back for being an asshole. That said, he deserves to get into the hall at some point.

  13. How bout this for AA’s next ninja move:

    1) Sign Edwin Jackson for 3/36
    2) Trade Mark Buehrle for someone else’s Chad Jenkins to add as AAA depth

    I’ve barely heard anything about Jackson this offseason. Perhaps Bowden is correct with his 3/30 guesstimate.

    As for Buehrle, when KC just handed out $25 mill to Guthrie & $11 mill for 1 year of Santana, I think Buehrle has positive trade value at 3/48. Either to a team like KC that has to overpay to attract free agents or one of the LA teams, whichever strikes out on Greinke.

    MB seems like one of those guys who teams value above their production due to his left-handedness, defensive prowess, veteranness etc. Jackson seems like the exact opposite.

    • Why not keep Buehrle?

      • If you can get similar (or arguably better) production on a cheaper contract and flip Buehrle for an asset, why wouldn’t you do it?

        Buehrle makes a lot of coin in 2014 & 2015. As long as the Jays can find another reliable mid-rotation starter, that money would be better used towards a Johnson extension, for example.

        Easier said than done, obviously.

        • what stat is telling you the Edwin Jackson will out perform Mark buerhle next year? or any time in the foreseeable future?

      • Ask that question when he pulling in $18m in 2014 and $19m in 2015. I’m thrilled with the package the Jays got, and I like him as an innings eater, but he’s not worth anything close to that. And FWIW, Bautista will be earning $14m in each of those years.

    • Agreed – that would be a heads up move especially if the overall $12 million saved allowed for a 5th starter of the McCarthy/Marcum variety on a 1+1 deal. I think the Jays come way out ahead with a prospect to boot.

    • Why is everyone so worried about Rogers millions? Buerhle can eat up some innings for a few more years, fuck, let it be.

      • Why wouldn’t any fan want their team to use their budget in a better fashion?

        If the market overvalues Buehrle and undervalues Jackson, why not pay Jackson less to more or less do the same work?

        A payroll spike is no reason to ignore opportunity cost.

    • Buerhle is considerably better than Jackson. so I don’t get the point to any of this

      • Considering age, stuff & how it will translate to the ALE, I think they are fairly equal.

        Not to mention the longshot chance of Jackson finally putting it together and becoming the #1 or #2 starter that scouts thought he could be.

        I realize Buehrle has been a little better the last few years, but there is no guarantee he continues. And I like Jackson’s chances of throwing 600+ innings the next 3 years more than Buehrle.

  14. I can’t wait for the advanced metrics guys to lose their shit if Jack Morris makes it into the HOF.

    • You mean, when Jack Morris makes it into the HOF.

      With over 60% of the vote last year, he is well on his way…

    • Don’t need advanced metrics. His career ERA is horrible for a HOF candidate also.

      • You know what the old-school response that that is, though – he only pitched as well as he needed to in order to win. If he was up 6-0, he might give up a few, but would never cough up the lead. People always used to say that about him back in the day.

        • People say crazy things.

        • Sure, but you know that there have been dozens of studies on this, some about Morris specifically, and not one of them has been able to show that pitching to the score exists?

          • I didn’t know that, but it doesn’t surprise me. Jack Morris became dead to me when he gave up the opposite field grand slam in game 5 of the 1992 World Series. I believe it was an 0-2 count. And I can tell you for a fact that it landed a few rows in front of where I was sitting in the right field 100′s. Fucking asshole.

        • Lol. Buck and Pat still say that now.

    • Said this on GB. I’m totally fine with Morris in the Hall, but if he’s in then Dave Stieb needs to get a second look. If Stieb’s elbow doesn’t blow out in 1992 he ends up better than Morris. And even in the smaller career he was just as good overall, if not slightly better.

      If Morris gets in, Stieb should be right beside him. End of story.

      • I don’t disagree with you, but – Stieb never won a WS and doesn’t have any huge post-season performances like Morris has. Morris is probably remembered for those as much as he is for anything, i.e. the 10-inning 1-0 shutout.

        • If Stieb’s elbow doesn’t blow out he plays a key role in back-to-back Jays World Series wins. That ups his case. He got the ring in 1992, but had been injured since May.

        • As well, Stieb pitches straight through to 1998 instead of coming back in 1998 after 5 years on ice.

      • Jack Morris was a bum:

        1992 TOR AL MLB 21W 6L 4.04 ERA

        His best season was all Jay’s offense. A solid player, but NEVER makes it into the HOF.

      • For a decade, these two guys were 1 and 1A in the American League. That alone should get them in. However, both played out of the limelight of the major markets and both could be prickly personalities. It is not hard to imagine more than one baseball writer saying, “No way I’m voting for that miserable S.O.B.” When all is said and done, Stieb will not get a sniff but the 1-0 game will tip the scales in favor of Morris. Clemons and Bonds will get in, but there will be enough anit-PED sentiment to keep both waiting for at least a year, maybe two or three. Hoping Raines gets in, but not holding my breath.

      • fuckin eh right bro, Stieb and Fernandez should both be in.

        • I love Tony Fernandez but he’s not going to Cooperstown. He’s in the Canadian HOF, which is well-deserved and as close as he’s getting.

  15. I’m with you on everyone but Walker. What’s the case for Walker?

    • Stoeten’s latent mapleness?

    • 73.2 WAR accumulated over his career. I believe 60 is where you start to talk about HOF.

    • I look at his 1997 season and wonder if ‘roids were being used. In terms of offense, he was never like that in any other season, even in Colorado.

      • Beer and Maple Syrup.

      • It was clearly his best season, but he had a pretty elite career still…


        I get that he’s not a totally obvious/unanimous choice, but I would personally vote him in based on the fact that he had a pretty good stretch of incredible dominance – something like a 5-6 year span of an OPS of about 1.100…that’s pretty HOF like to me.

        Coors will work against him for sure…

        • It won’t hurt that he had 6 or 7 gold gloves to go along with offensive production.

        • Oh he absolutely should be in the hall. Even if he were eating Canadian bacon, a 9.4 fWAR season is impressive. It just seems more of an outlier season than the others, offensively speaking.

          • Indestructible – 1997 was indeed nuts. 33 SB too! He should get an honorary quadruple crown or something (ok, 33 SB is not enough to ever win it, but still..)

        • OPS+ and wRC+ control for that, though, and he has 141s for both. In OPS+, that places him higher than people like Griffey Jr. and Reggie Jackson.

          I think Coors will be the main problem for him in the voting, but it shouldn’t be. Combine his contributions on both sides of the ball, and he’s a HOFer.

          • You nailed it with regards to OPS+. It’s such a great stat in leveling some of the numbers out. Unfortunately, he’ll be tainted by the Coors park effects like some of the other sluggers are tainted by PED use even though the 141 and 151 OPS+ seasons he had in Montreal prove that the talent was there already. Too many of the guys with votes won’t look into details like that.

    • Please refer to him is Booger from now on ok?

    • Look at Walker’s stats to see the case, Colorado air be damned. First ballot no, but he should be in eventually. And stick his plaque right next to Fergie Jenkins.

  16. Just look at the mustaches and was reminded of Paul Kilgus. He made Jim Acker look like Mariano Rivera. I honestly think that Kilgus’ fastball topped out at about 63 mph.

  17. McGwire on your list of “correct answers” but not Sosa or Palmeiro?

  18. yes, chooch getting a 25 game suspension drives up the price of jp arencibia or john buck

    are these people fucking kidding me?

    its not a acl tear, its a 25 game suspension. fucksakes

  19. I thought the O’s system was brutal? What happened there? Question is would you rather have the few true top tier bluechippers they have or the 15 maybes with upside(!) the Jays have.

    • Quality over quantity in my opinion

      • you’re better off with depth.

        baseball requires a good 25 man roster. having a few elite players really doesn’t help you win, just ask seattle and colorado

    • They have been bad for so long, no surprise they’ve got some really good prospects now. No different than Tampa really. The Orioles averaged 69 wins over the last decade prior to the 2012 season. The Rays averaged 64.5 wins in the decade prior to their breakout in 2008. That’s 10 years of some really high draft picks.

      Honestly if you look at a couple of the good arms they have coming up and combine that with a little more payroll, they have a very real shot of being a force in the AL East in the coming years. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them slip back a little this year though.

  20. There aren’t as many fits for jpa/buck around the league for a potential trade

  21. JackMorris does not belong in the Hall

  22. So just wondering, I really don’t like Bay, but he is a righty, could he possibly be a good platoon for Lind? Should be cheap. I would be prefer a better full time player, but he can’t be worse then Lind against lefties.

  23. BJ Upton gets 5/$75M. I like the Melky signing 543543543 times more now, and I liked it a lot to begin with.

    • yup considering that the Jays didn’t give up any prospects for him and he is dirt cheap I think it’s the best move of the off season for the Jays (and maybe all baseball) so far.

    • Also if you were to get a nice bounce back from Colby to levels closer to what he put up in St. Louis, you’re looking at a very similar value to Upton for about $10.5 million less.

      It could be an interesting scenario for AA come the All-Star break if Rasmus were to bounce back in the first half. At that point he would have 1.5 years left on his contract. If you envision the Jays going with Gose eventually, Rasmus would have serious value under those conditions.

      With the Jays depth in center he could potentially fetch a really nice arm in return. Obviously, that bounce back would have to happen first.

  24. “It was tough,” he said. “I’m not sure that people that haven’t walked in my shoes understand how much I love Toronto. I love the city. I’ve met some of the finest people ever in that city. I built some great relationships. I love the players that I was blessed to be working with. I’ve worked with some great coaches. I love the front office. There’s absolutely no hard feelings on my end. I feel like I’m indebted to Toronto and I’m indebted to that organization. Wonderful experience.”

    Butters deserves a standing ovation on his return. Followed by relentlessly booing Farrell of course.

  25. I’m just hoping that they get off to a decent start, stay a little healthy – and hopefully things will get contagious with the club (in a good way, not in some dread Nigerian Crotch Rot disease way)
    Guys like Rasmus and Lind – if they’re into it…can be deadly, and with the other weapons on the club – can make this lineup into a veritable Murderer’s Row.
    “We’ll beat you with speed” – Lawrie, Reyes, Davis, Bonefacio, Gose etc.
    “We’ll hit til the baseball bleeds” Bautista, EE, Melky, and hopefully LInd and Rasmus.
    “All Star Defense” Lawrie, Reyes, Rasmus, JBats,

    As long as Mr. Murphy stays away and the club can stay healthy and throw out this lineup day after day – I’m feeling good for the first time in a long time. Without chemical aid, that is.

  26. Couple of interesting Tweets from Gregor

    Gregor Chisholm ‏@gregorMLB

    Tidbits from today`s availability with Anthopoulos, Izturis is the front runner for 2B. Bonifacio potential super utility player. #bluejays

    Gregor Chisholm ‏@gregorMLB

    AA doesn`t expect to be in the market for any FA position players. FA pitcher still a possibility (but I doubt it`d be a long-term contract)

    Kind of surprised that he would have Izturis start over Bonifacio at 2nd to be honest especially with Davis already on the bench. I wonder if that’s a precursor to moving Davis since he and Bonifacio fill the same role.

    As for the pitching related tweet, at least there’s still hope of getting someone like Haren on a one year deal but I guess it rules out pretty much everyone like McCarthy, Sanchez, Jackson and Macrum. Oh well can’t have everything I guess.

    Also saw a rumor that the Jays were interested in Bill Bray. Hopefully that’s strictly a minor league depth move. Would hate to see dollars going towards mediocre pen help instead of starter depth.

  27. Also these:

    Gregor Chisholm ‏@gregorMLB

    #BlueJays stance on payroll sounds the same as before.Beeston believes there`s an ability to add more if right opportunity presented itself.

    Gregor Chisholm ‏@gregorMLB

    Beeston said that a dirt infield at Rogers Centre is not a realistic possibility.Won`t work with Argos still in the picture at Rogers Centre

    • My cousin works on field conversion. He’s told me they can easily do a dirt infield and keep the Argos, but it would cost more money. What else is new

      • If an dirt infield is good enough for the raiders I can’t see why it would a problem for the Argos.

        • For a couple of years the Argos did keep the dirt cut-outs up during the baseball season. Wasn’t that long ago, it was when Damon Allen was on the Argos. The difference between Oakland and Toronto is that Oakland has real grass, Toronto has turf.

  28. Fuckin Argos. Fuckin CFL.

  29. for starters, Is anyone else sick to fucking death of seeing the WAR and UZR stats? seriously fuck off with that garbage already. Metrics is gaytarded.

    second… I too am Frasored out. I appreciate his effort in the past, I think its amusing that he looks like Leonard from Big Bang Theory without glasses and I think that when there’s nobody on base and the Jays are up 7 runs, his stuff can sometimes look almost unhittable however that being said, I have watched him blow far far too many leads and lose hitters after being up 0-2 and so on and so on etc.

    third, I am totally with the guys that are for keeping Buerhle and not flipping him. Who the fuck cares about Rogers billions and how much of it he will suck up over the next few years. No team is going to give up anything that useful for him anyways with his contract.

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